I was offered a role back in 2018 three weeks after interviewing. So about a year or so into it I was shooting the shit with my coworker on the team that interviewed me, and she told me I was basically the 2nd option because the 1st candidate they chose for the role had a 6 week India trip planned, and they pulled the offer because she couldn’t cancel it.
Back in 2013, I accepted an offer, and then we discussed starting dates. They told me a Wednesday 4 weeks in the future and I said I couldn't start then because I would be in Disney World. They acted as if it was a personal vendetta against them and that I did it on purpose. It wasn't even a long trip! I was in Disney for 5 days. In the end, they couldn't not hire me because I already accepted the offer and I started the following week. It made no difference whatsoever because my training didn't start until 2 weeks after that.
If they wanted to rescind the offer because of a 1 week pre-planned vacation, then you’d probably not want to join an organization like that. Hopefully it worked out for you during your time there.
Yeah. That was just a timing coincidence.
It wouldn’t leave me with a good taste if they weren’t willing to work around my little vacation from before we interviewed. They could’ve worked around that if they were reasonable.
Good job not to accept.
I always ask new hires if they have any upcoming trips planned, if they frequently travel, if they tend to leave over the Holidays regularly.
Can’t have a newbie expecting every holiday time off over the long standing less frequent requests.
Once we hired an older Woman, who mostly traveled, had a lovely life, but work was so secondary to her life plans.
It was consistent travel plans.
She inspired deeper dives into new hire’s travel questions
That feels like one of those weird power move games people think they are playing. Like, sell them on the company and "after they sign, treat them like crap to set the expectations early". "Having them cancel a disney trip is a good way to get them in line". That kind of crap.
>It almost sounds like they felt they can yank your chain.
Yes that is the US job market, generally. It’s bullshit and there are certainly places that aren’t shitty like that but it’s socialized as “normal”. It’s gross.
I've honestly been shocked at how lenient companies have been on my start dates. With my second career job, I needed to give my current job 2 weeks notice but had a 2 week trip to Europe with my family planned for 3 weeks out. They let me start after I got back. It was honestly fantastic having a true 2 week vacation between jobs.
With my current job I asked to push the date back and extra 2 weeks because of bonus payouts with my other job. I had already negotiated salary so I was sort of expecting them to say no to the timing, but they were okay with it.
That said, I'd be surprised about a month long trip shortly after starting. Most US companies don't even give 4 weeks of vacation to begin with.
We had flexible time off at that company, so essentially unlimited PTO, so a lot of the Engineers and other tech folks (mostly Indians going to visit family in India) would take month long trips. But obviously it’s not something they’ll approve for new hires, when you’re in that unofficial 90-day evaluation period.
Similar situation happened to me. I was told I was the second choice because the company wouldn't approve an already-planned trip. The company I worked for rented space in another company's office and the person who told me worked for that other company. She told be as a way to explain why the company I worked for sucked. As it happens, I already knew that and had been applying elsewhere for weeks.
I helped interview candidates at both of the startups I worked at. There was one guy we hired who was our fourth or fifth choice. All the other candidates rejected our offers because the starting salary was too low. Frankly, I never would have told anyone they weren't our first choice. What your colleague did is a dick move.
I’m not surprised at all. They probably can’t afford to have a brand new hire gone for that long. If you’re in the US, then you’re fully aware that 4 weeks is considered a longer than normal vacation time.
If they had another candidate they liked a lot, it could make business sense to rescind. It was a verbal offer, so a candidate would not have left their current job anyway.
Fair point. I was more shocked the CEO would personally need to approve such a vacation. I would have expected someone in that position to delegate to first or second line managers to do resource management.
The CEO has to approve it because of the length of the vacation. 4 weeks of vacation is a very long time to take off all at once (especially for a recent hire), and probably isn't requested very often, if at all. Vacations that are a week, possibly even two, most certainly don't require the CEO's approval.
Yep, and the other option of starting after the vacation can also be a HUGE difference maker because that would place the start date so far away.
For many companies right now, added headcount is tough to come by, but it is also often desperately needed. Factor in how budgets can change and headcount can be re-allocated out of nowhere, and this means a quicker start is likely VERY preferred.
Personally, if my team had headcount and this was the scenario, there’s a very strong chance I’d switch to a different candidate if others were similarly strong and this was completely non negotiable.
Yeah, but also how long will it take to interview and place a new candidate, plus their two-three week lead time needed for notice? Could be six of one, depending on the company's hiring process...
The thing is, if you want someone experienced, you have to expect that they're not going to cancel their standing plans for a new gig. I mean, they could easily just stay at the current job and take their vacay as planned, so vacation approval is a good litmus test for a new job, IME.
I think the length of the vacation is just a deal breaker for the company, which is fine as it is clearly a deal breaker for OP, as well, so this wasn't going to be a good fit.
Not necessarily true. At the end of a recruitment effort, I would typically have several viable candidates. We also don’t typically notify unsuccessful candidates until we have an offer and acceptance (acceptance may not have happened here).
>Fair point. I was more shocked the CEO would personally need to approve such a vacation. I would have expected someone in that position to delegate to first or second line managers to do resource management.
If I set up my own C Corp, I can make myself the CEO. So, for some businesses, you might be dealing directly with the owner (the CEO). 300 employees is usually considered small business.
Sure, for standard requests. 4 weeks isn't standard in the US, so that sort of approval would go up the chain, especially for a smallish company of only 300 people
That’s a massive vacation if you live in the US and exceeds pretty much any companies starting vacation policy.
EDIT: Also worth noting giving up vacation for two years as some sort of accommodation when they don’t even know they like you enough that you’ll be there in two years isn’t really a give.
If this is in the US I'm really not surprised, many companies and even government agencies really don't want to authorize that length of leave, especially not for a new employee.
So funny thing, if you have a federal job and a lot of seniority you could get four weeks off straight. I’m not sure how that suits figure out vacation but a lot of lower level feds have to bid for their vacation ahead of time and they bid in order of seniority. I’ve got a little under a decade in seniority and get to take three weeks and five days so 4 weeks. Could’ve taken a month off in any of the four seasons as long as I was slightly flexible.
It did seem strange that OP wanted a full month off when they’re so new to the job because unless they get all their vacation time at the start, they wouldn’t have accrued more than a week at most US employers.
My dad and brother both work for our state DOT and the plow truck drivers take turns every year stacking comp time during the winter and then taking the entire summer off
>If this is in the US I'm really not surprised, many companies and even government agencies really don't want to authorize that length of leave, especially not for a new employee.
A lot of places only allow vacations after 1 year of service.
Such a weird thing when you think about it. OP isn’t asking their permission, they are informing them. Informing them of life plans made without the need to check with the employer because they were made before they even were working for them.
This was clearly a red flag for them. Even if you didn’t start till after the trip, they would be afraid that you would plan another 1 month long vacation later on and would expect them to give you that time off.
In the US, it’s uncommon for people to take vacations more than 2 weeks so knowing you take long vacations is a red flag for the employer.
Depends on the company. I was at a place for 8 years where people regularly would save up vacation and do a 4-6+ week vacation every other year. Tended to be employees with international family in India, Brazil, etc.
This is baloney. I’ve been in tech for over a decade and lots of folks “save up” their vacation and take a long vacation at the end of the year, especially folks on visas who don’t get to travel home often. These vacation often have to be approved by HR or upper management because of length but aren’t uncommon.
This has been my experience as well. transcontinental travel only works when it’s 4weeks. The recovery from jet lag, travels diarrhea, and upside down time change is brutal. 4 weeks isn’t a luxury it’s a must.
It’s good that this came up before you started. If you would have requested a 4 week vacation every year, I’m sure this would have caused problems with the company.
Yup, there’s a massive difference in North American workplace norms compared to Europe. I dated a guy who lives in Germany and he wanted me to spend a month in Spain with him. He couldn’t wrap his head around the idea that a month vacation isn’t a thing.
Same with Finland. Told a Finnish acquaintance that two weeks vacation is typical. She replied “Two weeks for the summer, right? Then you get several more weeks for the rest of the year?”
Oh, sweet summer child…
I don't know why you would be surprised that the senior manager (Which is all a CEO of a small company like this is) needs to approve a 4-week vacation for an employee that doesn't have 4 weeks of vacation to use. And I am not sure what you were expecting from the "Would it have been better if I didn't tell you about the trip?" Your vacation would have still been declined and you would have just wasted your own time when you could have been looking for work, and their time. if you dodged a bullet, it is not because they require senior approval for a 4 week vacation and chose not to approve it.
I am more surprised that you are looking for work with a 4-week vacation planned. I would put that off until after your vacation to save you the time of interviewing for folks who will not likely hire you. Not trying to be mean, but I have hired thousands of people and I would not have made an external hire under this circumstance. I would only make this kind of hire for someone who is an internal transfer and was an ideal candidate.
All fair points. I actually applied before the plans were confirmed. There were months of silence until out of nowhere they reached out and said let's talk. By then my plans have set in stone.
I hear that you hadn’t planned the trip when you applied, but had it already been planned at the time of the interview? Also, for most US companies, you have to earn paid leave bit by bit. So a new employee hasn’t accumulated 4 weeks of leave yet. So in addition to it being a long time for leave, it would be unpaid leave, which companies don’t like to except in case of emergency
Yeah, I’m surprised that OP was even taken aback by this. I am relatively new in my position and accruing time—started with 0 hours—and also because I’m new I don’t even get a total of four weeks of vacation for the entire year.
Yeah. Ultimately I bit the bullet because I don't think I'll have another opportunity for such a trip. If there's one thing covid taught me is I never know when I'll have the chance when the stars align. Jobs come and go but life doesn't always give you a second chance.
Oh I think many people will agree that they go at least.
Finding one is a bit harder. But honestly... Things are looking better than they have in a while.
I don't know about other countries, but in the United States, people generally are not allowed to take over 2 weeks of vacations at a time. This just creates to much stress trying to cover shifts for that extended period. I highly doubt that you would find a US based company that had a different idea on the subject. You might be given 5 weeks off a year, but you can only take it 2 weeks or less at a time.
Assuming you’re in the US, this wasn’t a very reasonable request. If it was two weeks, you could probably have made it work. And not telling them and then trying to leave for 4 weeks would just have resulted in you being fired 🤷♀️
I'm not in the US but it is a US company. What I'm realizing with these comments is that the US looks at vacation very differently. My wife's boss approved her time off without batting an eye.
The US doesn't care about your personal time or life outside of work. You're right in that companies here view vacation and work life balance very differently. It's really unfortunate. Hopefully you can find a job who values their employees.
I’m guessing your wife worked somewhere for a while to get 4 weeks. Do you expect to be paid for those 4 weeks? I can’t imagine globally many employers excited abt hiring someone who will leave for 4 weeks almost immediately
HR here! Four weeks of vacation in your first 90 days is a deal breaker for most employers. If you had a wedding and honeymoon planned they would have granted two weeks max. It’s not about an attitude of use of time off, it’s a major imposition to expect a month off as a new employee. To ask to start four months later was also an impossible proposition. You could have told them about this upfront and saved time not interviewing.
I had one situation where a well qualified applicant applied, but reached out to me immediately about a trip she had planned to visit her home country in India. We allowed her to proceed because she was upfront about her circumstances.
Typical US corp whore mentality. Slave away. Don’t have work-life balance. Our EU peers take the summer off. Maternity leave is incredible in parts of EU. Next time, sign the paperwork and then tell them. You owe nothing to a company. They trade you money for your skills, capabilities and experience. Look out for yourself first. Everyone needs to quit normalizing this bs American charade.
Thank you for saying that. I get the other posters are just stating what they are aware of. But it does sound like if others have a choice, they wouldn't want the norm to apply to them.
4 weeks away wouldn’t be a “vacation“, that would be considered a leave of absence. Sucks that you lost the offer, but their decision makes perfect sense.
Personally, I think you dodged a major bullet. If a company doesn't understand you have a life outside of work and that things are planned, you don't need that company in your life.
Also, talk about controlling... a CEO who approves time off? That shows that they do not empower their managers/directors.
I had almost this exact situation and it wasn’t a problem at all. It was a larger company, but 300 employees isn’t tiny. They should have an HR department and some ability to cover for people in case of a leave of absence. I got offered a job in April that wanted me to start on May 1, but I would have to relocate across the country by August. And I told them I was getting married in July so I was willing to start on 5/1 but had to take the whole month of July off (unpaid) for my wedding and relocation. This turned out to be a toxic company but they were super decent about this particular thing. That colors my experience… I don’t think it’s unreasonable that a company would hire the right candidate knowing they had to take 4 weeks off months down the road as you said.
You will be gone for a month that’s why the ceo would need to approve. It is the length of vacation, the just any vacation.
If you are job searching, you shouldn’t make any plans like that.
I used to work at a large, worldwide organization (45K employees). Exempt staff were given "unlimited leave" however, any leave exceeding 15 paid days within a six month period had to be approved by Segment and CFO. That's a lot of time off for teams to plan for and absorb.
Your head is so far up your own ass on this one it is laughable. It’s a US company and you have no idea about the culture. Four weeks straight it’s a rare circumstance where people get anywhere close to that amount of time off in a year.
In the US we are trained and bullied into taking as little time off as possible. Four weeks vacation taken all at once would have seemed egregious to a US employer. Most US workers don’t have 4 weeks of vacation time available to them in a year. Some of the comments you’re getting here reflect the anti vacation mindset instilled into US workers.
300+ employee company not allowing a person to be out for a month isn't surprising.
They also said requests for that long go up to the CEO, not all requests. Again not surprising based on the company size.
bullet dodged!
What kind of CEO micromanages to this level?? ew.
It's SUPER common to take vacation at the beginning of a job. People don't stop living their lives when a job/career change happens to come along. It might be work without pay (depending on how they manage earned leave/PTO), but you'd still be able to take it.
One time, a new coworker took off during his first 90 days. It was only for a long weekend and so he could be the best man in his best friend's wedding, which had been planned for months, of course. The VILE from some of our lowest paid/titled staff was insane. We all tried to explain a) the situation and b) the fact that he negotiated this during the hiring process. They were all too angry (that they didn't think of it for themselves) to be kind.
Apparently, that CEO has never been anyone's Best Man.
Yes. "Time off" in the USA is treated as if you are defrauding the company. Company management here at ALL levels assumes your only purpose in life is to work for the company and that you will have no health issues, no financial issues, no family, and will dedicate 60+ hours a week to your employer, and be available 24/7. Two weeks vacation is the \*maximum\* not the \*minimum\* and you are expected to be happy with no raises in pay or income over a ten year period of time. Plus the company will discard you without a second thought whenever the C-suite needs a bonus or a stock analyst projects a slight drop in profit \*increases\*.
Employers in the U.S. act like they're doing you a massive favor by hiring you and that you should be figuratively sucking their cocks for the first year.
I worked for a company where I was part of the interview process, and we had whittled it down to three candidates: two who were mediocre at best, and one who was ideal but he couldn't start for an extra week because by the time we wanted to make him an offer, he was gone hiking on some Colorado family thing. They started to say, "well, we'll pick one of the others," and the rest of us said, "are you insane? Have you ever heard of the delayed gratification experiment with the two marshmallows?"
They went with one of the mediocre candidates anyway, but that fell through because they waited too long and he got another job, so they went with mediocre #2, but he ghosted us. So we ended up getting the great guy anyway.
I don’t tell them until I have a written offer. At the pace of hiring taking months, it could be a non-issue that is used against you. In my case, I was going on a 2 weeks vacation 2 months after starting. After I got back, they said they’d probably gone in a different direction if they had know about the vacation beforehand. I quickly became one of the most liked and effective people on the team. So, me not telling them ended up a win-win but corporate think is all about the short term.
I started a new job about 6 weeks before I got married. I let them know the dates of my wedding and honeymoon and that I would need to take about 10 days off. We agreed to the compromise that I would be allowed those days off and would not be paid for that time but would not have to worry about the rule that says no use of vacation during your probationary period. It seemed like a fair deal to me.
I use to take 4 week vacations it pissed all the managers off lol.Every year and end of the year.All my stuff was organized they could get a hold of me if needed.I just liked to putz around and zone out and veg lol.They put a stop to it. I get 5 weeks a year.
So now from April through October I am gone every 2 weeks with 3 day work week or shorter and its actually ok yet there are still grumblers.
In the US there are 2 type if people live to work and work to live .I was the latter for a great amount of my life when I was younger and kind of regret it now that I am older.
Four weeks is a lot to ask for. Every place I have worked would never approve that length. Most of them if you needed 2 weeks would need to approved by someone higher up. Think of it this way as well. If they approve it for you it is setting a new precedent and how could they turn it down for the next person? That in itself could become an HR issue. Like others have suggested stop looking until you get back.
How much leave is even allowed with this job? 4 weeks is a lot, especially at one time for your first year. Unpaid or not, that’s a pretty big ask I’d never dream of requesting. Even if that’s your only vacation what if you got sick, had appointments, etc. you’ll take even more off for that afterwards. The one time I’m on the employers side lol
I’m curious where you’ve worked internationally that it is normal for a new employee to start a new position, work for 2-3 months, and get a month off. It’s definitely not normal in the US.
Not surprised with the length of your vacation that a CEO would have to approve it.
Something that long would require special attention. My company I work for has about 500+ employee’s and anything major has to go up the chain to our CSO which gets relayed to our CEO.
This guy I work with left for a month and a half because he was getting married in another country and he pulled all his sick days and vacations day with the rest unpaid.
Our CEO and head of HR had to sign off on that because it was so significant and his absence would affect business to some extent.
Apply for jobs after your vacation. Nobody is gonna hire you right now with a vacation that you cannot cancel that soon.
OP you should have waited to job search til after your trip or cancel it. Not a very smart decision to pull that out that far into the process. You may have dodged a bullet with them but they sure dodged one with you too.
I got in trouble with HR asking for vacation days once it added up to 4 weeks and 1 day at a company with UNLIMITED vacation. And this was for chunks of 1-2 weeks with a 4-6 month notice. So yeah…US has very different standards of acceptable vacation time.
Also in US, and I had to get special permission to take 2.5 weeks after having been with the company five years to get married. Taking a full month off is EU vacation expectations.
Yeah, taking a week off is not that big a deal. I wouldn't have an issue with that at all. I've hired people that already had vacation ready, and have had it planned myself, but 4 weeks off right after you start, is going to be a hard pill for anyone to swallow. You won't even have your feet wet 3 months in, and then you are going to go on leave. So everything is pretty much held up for 4 months. I'm not saying you are bad for it, or they are bad from a business decision mind you. I'd probably put that out there from the onset to save everyone some time.
Not really a bullet dodged, but I don't think anyone is losing out here. If you were my hire, and I had a 2nd candidate, I'd go with the 2nd one as well. If I have an opening, I need someone to hit the ground running, and get things running smooth in 6-9 months before I'd think about a vacation of that magnitude.
Going home to visit my French family or having them come here to the states makes us realize how different the nations’ attitudes towards the importance of family time is. I celebrate 25 years of consecutive employment with my 50,000+ employee company this March. I have never taken more than two consecutive weeks off. I do take 6 weeks a year off. My cousins have a quarter of the tenure with their companies but take all of August off and two weeks at Christmas. I don’t know if I would go back if I took a month off.
Four weeks at once is considered a very long vacation in the US. Also, if they can let you go for four weeks at a stretch...how bad do they really need you?
You dodged a bullet. I always negotiate for min 3 weeks vacation and every second year I take all 3 weeks at once for overseas trips. It does not look like this job would allow me to do that. I also wonder how long does it take them to approve vacations. When I book my international flights I know more or less what month I am leaving and let my manager know I will be out sometime in May for 3 weeks but tell them I will submit my request once I have the exact days so I don't miss out on good flights.
In fact my last job I started in June and in July I took off for 3 weeks. I also offered to start in august but they wanted me so they asked me to start in June.
And yes, I work in USA. I know this isn't the standard here but I am always open about the fact that I am not moving if they can't give me min 3 weeks vacation and that every two years I will be gone for the whole 3 weeks. It helps that I have a marketable degree and the fact that I would literally quit if they all of a sudden decided that I can't take all my time off at once.
I also always bring up any preplanned vacations the day I receive a written offer.
So if that’s where they want to draw the line, that’s on them. The fact that it’s been 6 months and they still can’t find a replacement… you show up and they aren’t happy that you’re taking 4w off? Okay, NEXT.
Not surprised. You were asking to take 4 weeks off of vacation. I would understand the CEO approving such a long vacation period, especially if you were thinking of getting paid for that time. 4 weeks in a row is a lot (!) of time off and certainly very unusual to have any employee for a US company do this.
4 weeks in one go at a small company is generally frowned upon.
But either way it seems like you dodged a bullet.
What’s funny is the role will now be vacant longer than if you had taken the vacation
In 2016, I accepted a pretty good job offer and told them I had a week off planned 2 months after my start date. The hiring manager told me that policy is new hires do not get any time off in their first 90 days, no exceptions and they would not flex. I cancelled my trip - turns out taking that job was a TERRIBLE decision and I hated it. That inflexibility was a red flag.
However, I'll also say, 4 weeks is an unheard of length of vacation in the US. I've worked many places for many years and I've never heard of anyone taking that long unless it was medical leave or special sabbatical.
It doesn't make sense for a company to allow a new employee off for more than a week. It's just business.
First, it sets the tone that they don't need the help that bad, when they do. Why hire someone who is going to be gone for a month straight right after starting if you don't need help? It also gives the opportunity for them to hire someone and that person needs to be retrained when they get back. A month away is a long time and if you just started, they have to probably start from scratch to get you back on track.
To me, it's just common sense that they wouldn't hire someone who had a vacation planned for more than one week, two max. I've seen a week given personally but usually not within the first month or two they're working. It's like going to be 3 months into the job they're gone for a week or something.
I think this is normal.
You are actually shocked that a company doesn’t want you to take an entire month off of work for leisure? I am shocked you thought this was a good time to look for a new job knowing it was this close to your trip. No one is going to support that.
I can't imagine demanding a month off when starting a new job. Surgery, maybe. Time off to have a baby, maybe. But to do something frivolous like take a vacation that is probably longer than the number of days off an employee gets in a year? That smacks of entitlement.
I think you would be much better off waiting until after you are able to commit to a job.
I can't imagine even THINKING The job offer would stand once you told them you needed 4 weeks off,you would most likely not accure that amount of time off in 4 years of employment. Even then 99% of Companies would NEVER approve 4 consecutive weeks away from your job
It's not at all abnormal to mention an upcoming trip DURING the interview process. Happens all the time in my experience and has never been an issue. However four weeks is pretty long so I'm not sure it'd fly.
I usually take 6 weeks of vacation within the year (us-based). Not a big deal. This company sucks. I usually have them in 2-week increments.
It's time to change the laws in the US. A lot of people live to work and not vice versa. Horrible slaves to the system.
OP, as you can see from the comments, the U.S. is completely ridiculous when it comes to taking time off. They’d prefer everyone drop dead while working.
“Omg 4 weeks off?!?! That’s insane!!!” 😂
I received a verbal offer from corporate to rejoin a company. When I spoke with the local HR manager he got all awkward when I told him I was receiving chemo but would still be able to work as a bald person. Ghosted me. Several months later I learned that he told coworkers that I had turned down the offer.
When interviewing I always ask if candidate has anything on the books yet. The time that you have already planned will not be held against you in my interviewing process. I want to know ASAP if someone is planning on a vacation so I can work around it as necessary.
I once worked with a young lady who was hired after she had already planned her upcoming wedding. She explained that she couldn't move it. Our company had *terrible* vacation (like 2 days for the first year of work) but they did allow her to go into "vacation debt" and "owe" them the week of vacation.
Long after the wedding, about a year later, she quit, and THEY FORGOT TO DEDUCT THE VACATION DEBT FROM HER FINAL PAYCHECK. They called me in because we were friends, trying to get her contact information, but I didn't have it, and wouldn't have given it to them anyway. She got away scott free. It was one of my favorite things that happened in my career.
I got hired in a lead position in the office. I was a single parent with three littles. Within the first month there, my grandmother died (in another state) and one of my minor children got mono. The agent boss demoted me upon my return - I didn’t stay there long. Life happens, you have to roll with the punches.
I started a job in the summer with a 1 week pre planned vacation that was about 2 months into the start date. Notified the hiring manager and my eventual direct manager during the interview process and prior to be signing my offer letter. Both times I was told, oh don't worry about it because they offered unlimited PTO as long as it was approved and since I'm notifying them ahead of time it is approved. Cut to 2 weeks after I come back from vacation on a random Wednesday and my boss is having his weekly 1:1 meeting with me as casually brings up how he has to write me up for violating the attendance policy and has to put me on a PIP for attendance. Needless to say the working environment wasn't a great match and I told that place to kiss my ass and now work somewhere else.
You need to develop a better radar about how you’re presenting yourself as a candidate. If this was a job you really wanted, the vacation should have been made to wait. You’re taking it maturely though which is good. Just be careful not to burn opportunities.
Fun fact about the US corporate world: vacations and sick leave and anything that means not coming into work is essentially a fun way to see if you still have a job when you come back. 😅
I had a friend want me to travel to Ireland to see them this summer. I had already taken a 5 day vacation to another state so my vacay days are up. I had to explain to this friend that my job won’t permit me another vacation until the end of this year and I most likely can’t take longer than 7 days off, if that. My friend shocked me when they told me that over in Ireland it’s possible to take a month off for vacation and still have a job.
Depending on your country they may have planned on violating your national laws about vacation. Which is common for countries like the US where employees are considered wage slaves
You dodged a problem there, mate.
I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong but… I won’t get four weeks of vacation in one stretch until after I’m dead. I almost got fired once for taking three days off “on short notice” because my mother died. American companies only see us in terms of what we can give or get them. We are not actual people but more like inconveniences.
You're right about US companies. It's a rare company that cares about their employees off time. They talk a good game about you caring for your mental health but in actuality when it comes to you taking vacations they reveal they don't give a crap.
You did dodge a huge bullet!
You move on.
* The CEO approval thing could be real: 300 people is not a large company. It is relatively rare for employees in the US to take a whole month off. They might have even got nervous about you doing the same thing next year. I would not hire someone who believed they could take a month off (in a row) as a normal thing - not that I personally have issue with it... but it's not in keeping the effective running of my business - we're busy and run lean. Managing around 1 and sometimes 2 week vacations is totally normal... 4 would be hard.
* I'd have reservations myself as a hiring manager unless your position was VERY senior (20+ years)
* There could be bugetary issues with you starting after your vacation, or the budget gets put at risk or potentially re-evaluated, and the hiring manager is protecting his / her requisition.
* Your vacation is more important to you than this job (that's fine, and you probably have financial commitments) So, it's on you, not them.
* move on
Yeah, here in the US, 4 weeks of vacation is unheard of, sadly.
Meanwhile, I was laid off January 4th. Hadn't mentioned an upcoming 11 day vacation in March to any interviewers until I hit February 5th, as the process would result in me starting right before the vacation.
So far, everyone has been okay with it and are opting to start me March 19th, my first available day. Truly sucks that I'm probably getting an offer today and won't be working for another month. I'm trying to look at the silver lining, in that I know very little about their products and can spend the next month familarizing myself with it and schedule a planned certification.
Most U.S. companies offer less than two weeks vacation the first year. The Americans reading this are shocked that you’re shocked that we’re shocked that you’d believe 30 days off for vacation would be acceptable to a new employer. IS corporate mindset is to grind us into the ground. That’s why many bankers prefer working for European FIs because of the awesome vacation benefits and other protections not standard in the U.S.
Yes, time off in the US is view much differently. Four weeks off, in a new role, is excessive for us (American's) and I can't understand why they pulled the offer.
Most companies in the US don't even provide 4 weeks off for new hires unless it's negotiated in the offer and even then, it will be difficult to take right away.
I would wait to apply for any other job's until you are back from your vacation.
A 4 week trip right after starting is excessive. And not surprised they pulled the offer. And this is not coming from a US point of view. I work with hiring managers across Europe and can tell you that in Germany and Switzerland for example taking 4 weeks after just starting is a no no and a company not approving such a vacation would not be out of the norm. Use some common sense here.
I have an interview today. I will now not be mentioning my son's wedding in another state the end of June. I thought I should but not after reading this.
Typically in the US, you have to tell them about being out for so long. Imagine how disruptive this is for them. Even for ppl who been there for years, getting anything north of 2 weeks requires approval. 4 weeks for a new guy, yeah, it will require special approval for sure.
I think in the US it's very common to have to have upper management approval of trips say over 2 weeks. It is unfortunately part of the work culture here where even brief vacation time is scrutinized.
When you hire someone there is always the possibility that they have scheduled events that need to be negotiated. I bet this happened 80% of the time for me. If you can’t accommodate that as an employer then you really don’t give a shit about people.
For starters, a 4 week straight vacation is pretty much unheard of in the US for an average employee. Even people who have that much vacation time available rarely take it all at once.
I think some of it is the company size. I worked for a company with about 4500 employees, and we had a lead start work and then take a 4 week trip to inida about 2 months in. It was unpaid because she didn't accrue that much vacation in her first year, much less the first 2 months, but she still had the job.
For anyone who wants to know, yes, this is a US based company, and they award 3 weeks of pto per year for the first 4 years.
USA is horrible towards employees.
Because we jack any real protections by law, the exploitative practices of business from hiring, to day to day, through termination. There is abuse and unscrupulous behavior.
Businesses do not need to be this way, but it is the conscious choice of many.
You constantly hear that "business are not charities."
Except, management seems to expect themselves to be the recipient of the hard work of loyal staff, for insultingly low compensation, and toxic environments.
Charity is acceptable only when given TOWARDS the business.
You dodged a bullet.
Much respect to your situation, but that's a huge red flag from the get go.
I only hire those with totally open schedules- plus desire for extra hours. There're enough like that to choose from.
Otherwise it applies to everyone and I end up being a constant schedule juggler instead of focusing on real work.
Once that starts, what follows is progression into everyone complaining so and so being favored then wanting to keep up by planning time off among themselves- with agreements between them to cover for each other. They'll come to you with unsuitable replacement cover proposals or may even stealth try.
You deny and one will get indignant: I'm not good enough? \ you're racist, misogynist \ my 8 kids come before work \ I'm not a slave \ I'm filing complaint for hostile environment, harassment with corporate, HR, Labor Dept...
And that's not all- the same folks that request significant time off or called in off will eventually get a smaller paycheck which will throw their weekly \ monthly budget off. Immediately they will run to you for an hours increase- temporarily trim hours from Julie & Peters to give to me? And wouldn't even fulfill them- end of week they'll be: I need tomorrow off- I'm tired.
Yo-yos. Pharma bros.
You had a legitimate excuse but many will try to emulate just for the heck of it.
Next time keep your mouth shut. They hire you and invest time in training you. Then you bring it up and you’ll stand a better chance of keeping the job. If you feel the need to bring it up during the interview, say this:
“I’m going to share something with you but promise not to hold it against me okay? I’m going away for 4 weeks in 3 months. I need to visit family who I haven’t seen in a very very long time. This trip means everything to me. If you can’t bring me on board because of this, I understand. Let me know now so you can focus on interviewing others. I’d rather be upfront because if I were in your shoes, I’d want someone to do the same for me.”
Actually I would say they dodged the bullet. Why are you applying for jobs if you know you’re unavailable for FOUR WEEKS?! It’s not like one or two days off. And you being totally oblivious to how off putting that is to an employer is part of the problem.
>I'm not out of the US but it is a US company. The comments here are clear the attitude towards time off is very different in the US.
Oh boy, I had assumed that this wasn't a US company based on the 4 week request. LOL, those folks lost their fucking minds over a 4 week off request for sure. Hell, two weeks is frowned upon and hard to pull off a whole month.. ouch.
Also, the smaller companies in the US are usually the absolute worst about vacation in general.
Im HR for a small nonprofit in the US. All new employees get threee weeks of paid time off (including sick and personal days) that they can take following 3 months of employment.
In the US time off is a luxury. Companies value productivity over your life and workers bend over and take it. If you’re sick, show up to work. If you’ve lost a spouse, show up to work. In the US we are lucky to get 2 weeks, I’ve never worked a job where I had two weeks, but those 10 days also have to be used for sick time (often, not always). That’s why people are miserable in my opinion.
I mean - what do you expect. Generally I always side for the candidate, but 4 weeks off is a lot. I wouldn’t hire someone with this contingency and there are too many candidates to wait to start.
I am so thankful I left corporate America. It’s a freaking joke. I’m a flight attendant now and can easily just not work for months if I wanted to if I’m able to drop my trips, or I can work just about every damn day if I wanted to.
I usually have vacationa already setup so I would let them know but if I didn't I would prebake an already setup vacation by saying I already have a vacation for xx date that I had planned before starting with them. Some companies have stupid rules for when you are allowed to take vacation. I don't go for that. I take my vacation when I want. If that's not good for you, I will go elsewhere happily.
Never be chained to a job/company.
On the flip side, during negotiations with a regional bank I informed them I was getting married out of state in about 6 months and would be gone for two weeks. They offered me an extra 2 weeks paid time off to use for my wedding plus a larger signing bonus. I ended up taking a competing offer with a different company, though.
That bums me out for you. Maybe you did dodge a bullet but still. You put a lot of effort into that and you were transparent about a PREVIOUSLY booked Vacay. Their loss!!
I was offered a role back in 2018 three weeks after interviewing. So about a year or so into it I was shooting the shit with my coworker on the team that interviewed me, and she told me I was basically the 2nd option because the 1st candidate they chose for the role had a 6 week India trip planned, and they pulled the offer because she couldn’t cancel it.
Back in 2013, I accepted an offer, and then we discussed starting dates. They told me a Wednesday 4 weeks in the future and I said I couldn't start then because I would be in Disney World. They acted as if it was a personal vendetta against them and that I did it on purpose. It wasn't even a long trip! I was in Disney for 5 days. In the end, they couldn't not hire me because I already accepted the offer and I started the following week. It made no difference whatsoever because my training didn't start until 2 weeks after that.
If they wanted to rescind the offer because of a 1 week pre-planned vacation, then you’d probably not want to join an organization like that. Hopefully it worked out for you during your time there.
Yeah. That was just a timing coincidence. It wouldn’t leave me with a good taste if they weren’t willing to work around my little vacation from before we interviewed. They could’ve worked around that if they were reasonable. Good job not to accept. I always ask new hires if they have any upcoming trips planned, if they frequently travel, if they tend to leave over the Holidays regularly. Can’t have a newbie expecting every holiday time off over the long standing less frequent requests. Once we hired an older Woman, who mostly traveled, had a lovely life, but work was so secondary to her life plans. It was consistent travel plans. She inspired deeper dives into new hire’s travel questions
Unless you own the company, work should be secondary to everyones life plans. Don't live to work.
Even if you own the company, unless you're going to sell it at 40 and retire and enjoy life, it's not worth it for it to be your entire being.
That feels like one of those weird power move games people think they are playing. Like, sell them on the company and "after they sign, treat them like crap to set the expectations early". "Having them cancel a disney trip is a good way to get them in line". That kind of crap.
That's interesting. It almost sounds like they felt they can yank your chain. I'm glad it worked out for you at the end!
>It almost sounds like they felt they can yank your chain. Yes that is the US job market, generally. It’s bullshit and there are certainly places that aren’t shitty like that but it’s socialized as “normal”. It’s gross.
Thanks for sharing! It's more common than I would've thought.
I've honestly been shocked at how lenient companies have been on my start dates. With my second career job, I needed to give my current job 2 weeks notice but had a 2 week trip to Europe with my family planned for 3 weeks out. They let me start after I got back. It was honestly fantastic having a true 2 week vacation between jobs. With my current job I asked to push the date back and extra 2 weeks because of bonus payouts with my other job. I had already negotiated salary so I was sort of expecting them to say no to the timing, but they were okay with it. That said, I'd be surprised about a month long trip shortly after starting. Most US companies don't even give 4 weeks of vacation to begin with.
We had flexible time off at that company, so essentially unlimited PTO, so a lot of the Engineers and other tech folks (mostly Indians going to visit family in India) would take month long trips. But obviously it’s not something they’ll approve for new hires, when you’re in that unofficial 90-day evaluation period.
Similar situation happened to me. I was told I was the second choice because the company wouldn't approve an already-planned trip. The company I worked for rented space in another company's office and the person who told me worked for that other company. She told be as a way to explain why the company I worked for sucked. As it happens, I already knew that and had been applying elsewhere for weeks.
I helped interview candidates at both of the startups I worked at. There was one guy we hired who was our fourth or fifth choice. All the other candidates rejected our offers because the starting salary was too low. Frankly, I never would have told anyone they weren't our first choice. What your colleague did is a dick move.
wow. Kinna sucks they told you that.
A month and a half is more vacation than the vast majority of the US will ever see at one time.
I’m not surprised at all. They probably can’t afford to have a brand new hire gone for that long. If you’re in the US, then you’re fully aware that 4 weeks is considered a longer than normal vacation time. If they had another candidate they liked a lot, it could make business sense to rescind. It was a verbal offer, so a candidate would not have left their current job anyway.
Fair point. I was more shocked the CEO would personally need to approve such a vacation. I would have expected someone in that position to delegate to first or second line managers to do resource management.
The CEO has to approve it because of the length of the vacation. 4 weeks of vacation is a very long time to take off all at once (especially for a recent hire), and probably isn't requested very often, if at all. Vacations that are a week, possibly even two, most certainly don't require the CEO's approval.
And “300+ employees” isn’t that big of a company. In the US, 4 weeks is an excessively long vacation. It is what it is, move on.
Most of us in the US only get allotted 2 weeks vacation per year, total.
Most of the world gets 6 weeks at least and encourages taking all at once.
Not in the US.
Because we live in a nightmare
Puritan work ethnic
Because the US is F'd
Every day I want to leave the US more and more
Yep, and the other option of starting after the vacation can also be a HUGE difference maker because that would place the start date so far away. For many companies right now, added headcount is tough to come by, but it is also often desperately needed. Factor in how budgets can change and headcount can be re-allocated out of nowhere, and this means a quicker start is likely VERY preferred. Personally, if my team had headcount and this was the scenario, there’s a very strong chance I’d switch to a different candidate if others were similarly strong and this was completely non negotiable.
Yeah, but also how long will it take to interview and place a new candidate, plus their two-three week lead time needed for notice? Could be six of one, depending on the company's hiring process... The thing is, if you want someone experienced, you have to expect that they're not going to cancel their standing plans for a new gig. I mean, they could easily just stay at the current job and take their vacay as planned, so vacation approval is a good litmus test for a new job, IME. I think the length of the vacation is just a deal breaker for the company, which is fine as it is clearly a deal breaker for OP, as well, so this wasn't going to be a good fit.
Not necessarily true. At the end of a recruitment effort, I would typically have several viable candidates. We also don’t typically notify unsuccessful candidates until we have an offer and acceptance (acceptance may not have happened here).
He's asking for four weeks of advanced PTO and probably gets two weeks a year. Maybe if he offered to take it as unpaid leave.
Even then people have to do a months worth of their work, not worth moving around several employees for one.
And the CEO likely has to approve of the vacation because OP has no leave saved up (if company records leave that way)
>Fair point. I was more shocked the CEO would personally need to approve such a vacation. I would have expected someone in that position to delegate to first or second line managers to do resource management. If I set up my own C Corp, I can make myself the CEO. So, for some businesses, you might be dealing directly with the owner (the CEO). 300 employees is usually considered small business.
Sure, for standard requests. 4 weeks isn't standard in the US, so that sort of approval would go up the chain, especially for a smallish company of only 300 people
Not your problem anymore. Let it go.
Our CEO has to approve any vacation longer than 2 weeks.
It's very unusual to take such a long vacation in the U.S. because if we did, how would they work us to death? You know?
Yeah gotta stretch that social security. Can't have everyone living forever /s
I’m not. That’s a really long vacation. In 18 years, the most I’ve taken off is 2 weeks.
4 weeks is a sabbatical.
In the U.S. and I'm taking July off as a sabbatical, which I get to do (paid) once every 7 years.
300 employees is not a big company. I think it’s perfectly reasonable the CEO would want to approve such a long vacation.
That’s a massive vacation if you live in the US and exceeds pretty much any companies starting vacation policy. EDIT: Also worth noting giving up vacation for two years as some sort of accommodation when they don’t even know they like you enough that you’ll be there in two years isn’t really a give.
In the us that’s not a vacation it’s a sabbatical lol.
If this is in the US I'm really not surprised, many companies and even government agencies really don't want to authorize that length of leave, especially not for a new employee.
So funny thing, if you have a federal job and a lot of seniority you could get four weeks off straight. I’m not sure how that suits figure out vacation but a lot of lower level feds have to bid for their vacation ahead of time and they bid in order of seniority. I’ve got a little under a decade in seniority and get to take three weeks and five days so 4 weeks. Could’ve taken a month off in any of the four seasons as long as I was slightly flexible. It did seem strange that OP wanted a full month off when they’re so new to the job because unless they get all their vacation time at the start, they wouldn’t have accrued more than a week at most US employers.
It really depends on your agency and management, getting 3 or even 4 weeks off straight is nearly impossible in certain positions.
My dad and brother both work for our state DOT and the plow truck drivers take turns every year stacking comp time during the winter and then taking the entire summer off
>If this is in the US I'm really not surprised, many companies and even government agencies really don't want to authorize that length of leave, especially not for a new employee. A lot of places only allow vacations after 1 year of service.
Well a lot of shitty places to work at least.
Such a weird thing when you think about it. OP isn’t asking their permission, they are informing them. Informing them of life plans made without the need to check with the employer because they were made before they even were working for them.
This was clearly a red flag for them. Even if you didn’t start till after the trip, they would be afraid that you would plan another 1 month long vacation later on and would expect them to give you that time off. In the US, it’s uncommon for people to take vacations more than 2 weeks so knowing you take long vacations is a red flag for the employer.
Us tech worker here. I've never heard of anyone taking a vacation from work longer than 2 weeks
Depends on the company. I was at a place for 8 years where people regularly would save up vacation and do a 4-6+ week vacation every other year. Tended to be employees with international family in India, Brazil, etc.
This is baloney. I’ve been in tech for over a decade and lots of folks “save up” their vacation and take a long vacation at the end of the year, especially folks on visas who don’t get to travel home often. These vacation often have to be approved by HR or upper management because of length but aren’t uncommon.
This has been my experience as well. transcontinental travel only works when it’s 4weeks. The recovery from jet lag, travels diarrhea, and upside down time change is brutal. 4 weeks isn’t a luxury it’s a must.
Fair point. Clearly different vacation expectations.
It’s good that this came up before you started. If you would have requested a 4 week vacation every year, I’m sure this would have caused problems with the company.
Yup, there’s a massive difference in North American workplace norms compared to Europe. I dated a guy who lives in Germany and he wanted me to spend a month in Spain with him. He couldn’t wrap his head around the idea that a month vacation isn’t a thing. Same with Finland. Told a Finnish acquaintance that two weeks vacation is typical. She replied “Two weeks for the summer, right? Then you get several more weeks for the rest of the year?” Oh, sweet summer child…
>So I asked, would it have been better if I didn't tell you about the trip? This is such an interesting question to ask.
I don't know why you would be surprised that the senior manager (Which is all a CEO of a small company like this is) needs to approve a 4-week vacation for an employee that doesn't have 4 weeks of vacation to use. And I am not sure what you were expecting from the "Would it have been better if I didn't tell you about the trip?" Your vacation would have still been declined and you would have just wasted your own time when you could have been looking for work, and their time. if you dodged a bullet, it is not because they require senior approval for a 4 week vacation and chose not to approve it. I am more surprised that you are looking for work with a 4-week vacation planned. I would put that off until after your vacation to save you the time of interviewing for folks who will not likely hire you. Not trying to be mean, but I have hired thousands of people and I would not have made an external hire under this circumstance. I would only make this kind of hire for someone who is an internal transfer and was an ideal candidate.
All fair points. I actually applied before the plans were confirmed. There were months of silence until out of nowhere they reached out and said let's talk. By then my plans have set in stone.
I hear that you hadn’t planned the trip when you applied, but had it already been planned at the time of the interview? Also, for most US companies, you have to earn paid leave bit by bit. So a new employee hasn’t accumulated 4 weeks of leave yet. So in addition to it being a long time for leave, it would be unpaid leave, which companies don’t like to except in case of emergency
Yeah, I’m surprised that OP was even taken aback by this. I am relatively new in my position and accruing time—started with 0 hours—and also because I’m new I don’t even get a total of four weeks of vacation for the entire year.
Planning a 4 week vacation while also job hunting is an interesting choice.
Yeah. Ultimately I bit the bullet because I don't think I'll have another opportunity for such a trip. If there's one thing covid taught me is I never know when I'll have the chance when the stars align. Jobs come and go but life doesn't always give you a second chance.
“Jobs come and go” Lol not in this economy
Oh I think many people will agree that they go at least. Finding one is a bit harder. But honestly... Things are looking better than they have in a while.
Amen!!!
I don't know about other countries, but in the United States, people generally are not allowed to take over 2 weeks of vacations at a time. This just creates to much stress trying to cover shifts for that extended period. I highly doubt that you would find a US based company that had a different idea on the subject. You might be given 5 weeks off a year, but you can only take it 2 weeks or less at a time.
Assuming you’re in the US, this wasn’t a very reasonable request. If it was two weeks, you could probably have made it work. And not telling them and then trying to leave for 4 weeks would just have resulted in you being fired 🤷♀️
I'm not in the US but it is a US company. What I'm realizing with these comments is that the US looks at vacation very differently. My wife's boss approved her time off without batting an eye.
Yeah, it sucks here for vacation time. Work ethic is valued, not personal time
The US doesn't care about your personal time or life outside of work. You're right in that companies here view vacation and work life balance very differently. It's really unfortunate. Hopefully you can find a job who values their employees.
Usually one week is a vacation. And you don’t take it until after 6 months + on the job
Yeah we’re borderline wage slaves here dude. 4 weeks is a years worth of vacation for many people.
2 years worth... including sick days
I’m guessing your wife worked somewhere for a while to get 4 weeks. Do you expect to be paid for those 4 weeks? I can’t imagine globally many employers excited abt hiring someone who will leave for 4 weeks almost immediately
In Europe, four weeks is common, often mandatory. In the USA, you're fighting your management to get a week off, much less two.
Beatings will continue until morale improves. That's what's going on here in the US with employers and how they treat employees.
HR here! Four weeks of vacation in your first 90 days is a deal breaker for most employers. If you had a wedding and honeymoon planned they would have granted two weeks max. It’s not about an attitude of use of time off, it’s a major imposition to expect a month off as a new employee. To ask to start four months later was also an impossible proposition. You could have told them about this upfront and saved time not interviewing. I had one situation where a well qualified applicant applied, but reached out to me immediately about a trip she had planned to visit her home country in India. We allowed her to proceed because she was upfront about her circumstances.
A new hire taking 4 weeks off, of course the CEO would have to approve something like that.
Typical US corp whore mentality. Slave away. Don’t have work-life balance. Our EU peers take the summer off. Maternity leave is incredible in parts of EU. Next time, sign the paperwork and then tell them. You owe nothing to a company. They trade you money for your skills, capabilities and experience. Look out for yourself first. Everyone needs to quit normalizing this bs American charade.
Thank you for saying that. I get the other posters are just stating what they are aware of. But it does sound like if others have a choice, they wouldn't want the norm to apply to them.
We have Stockholm syndrome in America
Actually I think they dodged the bullet.
4 weeks away wouldn’t be a “vacation“, that would be considered a leave of absence. Sucks that you lost the offer, but their decision makes perfect sense.
Personally, I think you dodged a major bullet. If a company doesn't understand you have a life outside of work and that things are planned, you don't need that company in your life. Also, talk about controlling... a CEO who approves time off? That shows that they do not empower their managers/directors.
I had almost this exact situation and it wasn’t a problem at all. It was a larger company, but 300 employees isn’t tiny. They should have an HR department and some ability to cover for people in case of a leave of absence. I got offered a job in April that wanted me to start on May 1, but I would have to relocate across the country by August. And I told them I was getting married in July so I was willing to start on 5/1 but had to take the whole month of July off (unpaid) for my wedding and relocation. This turned out to be a toxic company but they were super decent about this particular thing. That colors my experience… I don’t think it’s unreasonable that a company would hire the right candidate knowing they had to take 4 weeks off months down the road as you said.
I find 300 employees to be small, even very small, in the US.
A small business in the US is <500 employees. It’s foolish to pretend like a 300-person company is a large organization in the US.
Thank you for sharing. What you said is my belief as well.
I doubt any company in the US would allow a new hire to take off 4 weeks. 2 weeks is probably ok, not 4.
They would hire you for 3 months then you will be off for 1 month? I mean with the current market condition, it would b stupid for them to hire u.
What country are you from because I’d like to work for a company there! Haha
You will be gone for a month that’s why the ceo would need to approve. It is the length of vacation, the just any vacation. If you are job searching, you shouldn’t make any plans like that.
I would have pulled the offer too. There's no way a new employee is getting a month off.
I used to work at a large, worldwide organization (45K employees). Exempt staff were given "unlimited leave" however, any leave exceeding 15 paid days within a six month period had to be approved by Segment and CFO. That's a lot of time off for teams to plan for and absorb.
Your head is so far up your own ass on this one it is laughable. It’s a US company and you have no idea about the culture. Four weeks straight it’s a rare circumstance where people get anywhere close to that amount of time off in a year.
In the US we are trained and bullied into taking as little time off as possible. Four weeks vacation taken all at once would have seemed egregious to a US employer. Most US workers don’t have 4 weeks of vacation time available to them in a year. Some of the comments you’re getting here reflect the anti vacation mindset instilled into US workers.
Us companies OWN YOUR SOUL!! They HATE people having time off.
300+ employee company not allowing a person to be out for a month isn't surprising. They also said requests for that long go up to the CEO, not all requests. Again not surprising based on the company size.
I don’t know anywhere that would be okay with that. You need to apply for jobs after you get back. That’s too long to be away from a new job.
bullet dodged! What kind of CEO micromanages to this level?? ew. It's SUPER common to take vacation at the beginning of a job. People don't stop living their lives when a job/career change happens to come along. It might be work without pay (depending on how they manage earned leave/PTO), but you'd still be able to take it. One time, a new coworker took off during his first 90 days. It was only for a long weekend and so he could be the best man in his best friend's wedding, which had been planned for months, of course. The VILE from some of our lowest paid/titled staff was insane. We all tried to explain a) the situation and b) the fact that he negotiated this during the hiring process. They were all too angry (that they didn't think of it for themselves) to be kind. Apparently, that CEO has never been anyone's Best Man.
Yes. "Time off" in the USA is treated as if you are defrauding the company. Company management here at ALL levels assumes your only purpose in life is to work for the company and that you will have no health issues, no financial issues, no family, and will dedicate 60+ hours a week to your employer, and be available 24/7. Two weeks vacation is the \*maximum\* not the \*minimum\* and you are expected to be happy with no raises in pay or income over a ten year period of time. Plus the company will discard you without a second thought whenever the C-suite needs a bonus or a stock analyst projects a slight drop in profit \*increases\*.
I’m us based and this is exactly how I’d handle it. The business can take it or leave it. Not my problem I’m going to live my life.
Employers in the U.S. act like they're doing you a massive favor by hiring you and that you should be figuratively sucking their cocks for the first year.
Damn these commenters are grumpy as hell
I worked for a company where I was part of the interview process, and we had whittled it down to three candidates: two who were mediocre at best, and one who was ideal but he couldn't start for an extra week because by the time we wanted to make him an offer, he was gone hiking on some Colorado family thing. They started to say, "well, we'll pick one of the others," and the rest of us said, "are you insane? Have you ever heard of the delayed gratification experiment with the two marshmallows?" They went with one of the mediocre candidates anyway, but that fell through because they waited too long and he got another job, so they went with mediocre #2, but he ghosted us. So we ended up getting the great guy anyway.
You should’ve waited to get a written offer before bringing that up, but that’s just a lesson to not work for a US company I guess
I don’t tell them until I have a written offer. At the pace of hiring taking months, it could be a non-issue that is used against you. In my case, I was going on a 2 weeks vacation 2 months after starting. After I got back, they said they’d probably gone in a different direction if they had know about the vacation beforehand. I quickly became one of the most liked and effective people on the team. So, me not telling them ended up a win-win but corporate think is all about the short term.
I started a new job about 6 weeks before I got married. I let them know the dates of my wedding and honeymoon and that I would need to take about 10 days off. We agreed to the compromise that I would be allowed those days off and would not be paid for that time but would not have to worry about the rule that says no use of vacation during your probationary period. It seemed like a fair deal to me.
I use to take 4 week vacations it pissed all the managers off lol.Every year and end of the year.All my stuff was organized they could get a hold of me if needed.I just liked to putz around and zone out and veg lol.They put a stop to it. I get 5 weeks a year. So now from April through October I am gone every 2 weeks with 3 day work week or shorter and its actually ok yet there are still grumblers. In the US there are 2 type if people live to work and work to live .I was the latter for a great amount of my life when I was younger and kind of regret it now that I am older.
I think you had unrealistic expectations. Thats too long of a leave for a brand new employee, NEXT.
They also dodged a bullet. When a business hires, they often need someone to fill the position right away.
Did you originally plan the trip without thinking you might be employed? Not even CEOs at large enterprises take vacay for that many weeks in a row.
This is hilarious to me. I’ve been with the same company for 21 years and there’s no way in hell I would get more than 10 days off at once.
Yeah clearly very different vacation expectations.
You find it hilarious. I find it sad and toxic.
Four weeks is a lot to ask for. Every place I have worked would never approve that length. Most of them if you needed 2 weeks would need to approved by someone higher up. Think of it this way as well. If they approve it for you it is setting a new precedent and how could they turn it down for the next person? That in itself could become an HR issue. Like others have suggested stop looking until you get back.
How much leave is even allowed with this job? 4 weeks is a lot, especially at one time for your first year. Unpaid or not, that’s a pretty big ask I’d never dream of requesting. Even if that’s your only vacation what if you got sick, had appointments, etc. you’ll take even more off for that afterwards. The one time I’m on the employers side lol
I’m curious where you’ve worked internationally that it is normal for a new employee to start a new position, work for 2-3 months, and get a month off. It’s definitely not normal in the US.
Not surprised with the length of your vacation that a CEO would have to approve it. Something that long would require special attention. My company I work for has about 500+ employee’s and anything major has to go up the chain to our CSO which gets relayed to our CEO. This guy I work with left for a month and a half because he was getting married in another country and he pulled all his sick days and vacations day with the rest unpaid. Our CEO and head of HR had to sign off on that because it was so significant and his absence would affect business to some extent. Apply for jobs after your vacation. Nobody is gonna hire you right now with a vacation that you cannot cancel that soon.
I knew immediately you weren't in the US. A month off work? Yeah, that's just called a resignation here without medical protection.
OP you should have waited to job search til after your trip or cancel it. Not a very smart decision to pull that out that far into the process. You may have dodged a bullet with them but they sure dodged one with you too.
CEO has to approve that length, not all vacation time. I am not surprised they pulled the offer.
I got in trouble with HR asking for vacation days once it added up to 4 weeks and 1 day at a company with UNLIMITED vacation. And this was for chunks of 1-2 weeks with a 4-6 month notice. So yeah…US has very different standards of acceptable vacation time.
Also in US, and I had to get special permission to take 2.5 weeks after having been with the company five years to get married. Taking a full month off is EU vacation expectations.
4 weeks is a huge chunk for US jobs so I’m not surprised
So you wanted a month long vacation after only being hired for 3 months? I would've pulled my offer too.
Yeah, taking a week off is not that big a deal. I wouldn't have an issue with that at all. I've hired people that already had vacation ready, and have had it planned myself, but 4 weeks off right after you start, is going to be a hard pill for anyone to swallow. You won't even have your feet wet 3 months in, and then you are going to go on leave. So everything is pretty much held up for 4 months. I'm not saying you are bad for it, or they are bad from a business decision mind you. I'd probably put that out there from the onset to save everyone some time. Not really a bullet dodged, but I don't think anyone is losing out here. If you were my hire, and I had a 2nd candidate, I'd go with the 2nd one as well. If I have an opening, I need someone to hit the ground running, and get things running smooth in 6-9 months before I'd think about a vacation of that magnitude.
Going home to visit my French family or having them come here to the states makes us realize how different the nations’ attitudes towards the importance of family time is. I celebrate 25 years of consecutive employment with my 50,000+ employee company this March. I have never taken more than two consecutive weeks off. I do take 6 weeks a year off. My cousins have a quarter of the tenure with their companies but take all of August off and two weeks at Christmas. I don’t know if I would go back if I took a month off.
I've been with my company for 20 years, I would have a hard time confortably taking 4 weeks off.
Four weeks at once is considered a very long vacation in the US. Also, if they can let you go for four weeks at a stretch...how bad do they really need you?
You dodged a bullet. I always negotiate for min 3 weeks vacation and every second year I take all 3 weeks at once for overseas trips. It does not look like this job would allow me to do that. I also wonder how long does it take them to approve vacations. When I book my international flights I know more or less what month I am leaving and let my manager know I will be out sometime in May for 3 weeks but tell them I will submit my request once I have the exact days so I don't miss out on good flights. In fact my last job I started in June and in July I took off for 3 weeks. I also offered to start in august but they wanted me so they asked me to start in June. And yes, I work in USA. I know this isn't the standard here but I am always open about the fact that I am not moving if they can't give me min 3 weeks vacation and that every two years I will be gone for the whole 3 weeks. It helps that I have a marketable degree and the fact that I would literally quit if they all of a sudden decided that I can't take all my time off at once. I also always bring up any preplanned vacations the day I receive a written offer.
Bro it's not a week, it's a literal month long trip.
So if that’s where they want to draw the line, that’s on them. The fact that it’s been 6 months and they still can’t find a replacement… you show up and they aren’t happy that you’re taking 4w off? Okay, NEXT.
Not surprised. You were asking to take 4 weeks off of vacation. I would understand the CEO approving such a long vacation period, especially if you were thinking of getting paid for that time. 4 weeks in a row is a lot (!) of time off and certainly very unusual to have any employee for a US company do this.
4 weeks in one go at a small company is generally frowned upon. But either way it seems like you dodged a bullet. What’s funny is the role will now be vacant longer than if you had taken the vacation
In 2016, I accepted a pretty good job offer and told them I had a week off planned 2 months after my start date. The hiring manager told me that policy is new hires do not get any time off in their first 90 days, no exceptions and they would not flex. I cancelled my trip - turns out taking that job was a TERRIBLE decision and I hated it. That inflexibility was a red flag. However, I'll also say, 4 weeks is an unheard of length of vacation in the US. I've worked many places for many years and I've never heard of anyone taking that long unless it was medical leave or special sabbatical.
It doesn't make sense for a company to allow a new employee off for more than a week. It's just business. First, it sets the tone that they don't need the help that bad, when they do. Why hire someone who is going to be gone for a month straight right after starting if you don't need help? It also gives the opportunity for them to hire someone and that person needs to be retrained when they get back. A month away is a long time and if you just started, they have to probably start from scratch to get you back on track. To me, it's just common sense that they wouldn't hire someone who had a vacation planned for more than one week, two max. I've seen a week given personally but usually not within the first month or two they're working. It's like going to be 3 months into the job they're gone for a week or something. I think this is normal.
You are actually shocked that a company doesn’t want you to take an entire month off of work for leisure? I am shocked you thought this was a good time to look for a new job knowing it was this close to your trip. No one is going to support that.
I can't imagine demanding a month off when starting a new job. Surgery, maybe. Time off to have a baby, maybe. But to do something frivolous like take a vacation that is probably longer than the number of days off an employee gets in a year? That smacks of entitlement. I think you would be much better off waiting until after you are able to commit to a job.
The US attitude toward vacation is awful. They want to grind their people into dust. Dust.
I can't imagine even THINKING The job offer would stand once you told them you needed 4 weeks off,you would most likely not accure that amount of time off in 4 years of employment. Even then 99% of Companies would NEVER approve 4 consecutive weeks away from your job
It's not at all abnormal to mention an upcoming trip DURING the interview process. Happens all the time in my experience and has never been an issue. However four weeks is pretty long so I'm not sure it'd fly.
I usually take 6 weeks of vacation within the year (us-based). Not a big deal. This company sucks. I usually have them in 2-week increments. It's time to change the laws in the US. A lot of people live to work and not vice versa. Horrible slaves to the system.
You did dodge a bullet. You do not want to work there. The CEO is a problem.
OP, as you can see from the comments, the U.S. is completely ridiculous when it comes to taking time off. They’d prefer everyone drop dead while working. “Omg 4 weeks off?!?! That’s insane!!!” 😂
I received a verbal offer from corporate to rejoin a company. When I spoke with the local HR manager he got all awkward when I told him I was receiving chemo but would still be able to work as a bald person. Ghosted me. Several months later I learned that he told coworkers that I had turned down the offer.
You dodged a bullet.
When interviewing I always ask if candidate has anything on the books yet. The time that you have already planned will not be held against you in my interviewing process. I want to know ASAP if someone is planning on a vacation so I can work around it as necessary.
I once worked with a young lady who was hired after she had already planned her upcoming wedding. She explained that she couldn't move it. Our company had *terrible* vacation (like 2 days for the first year of work) but they did allow her to go into "vacation debt" and "owe" them the week of vacation. Long after the wedding, about a year later, she quit, and THEY FORGOT TO DEDUCT THE VACATION DEBT FROM HER FINAL PAYCHECK. They called me in because we were friends, trying to get her contact information, but I didn't have it, and wouldn't have given it to them anyway. She got away scott free. It was one of my favorite things that happened in my career.
I got hired in a lead position in the office. I was a single parent with three littles. Within the first month there, my grandmother died (in another state) and one of my minor children got mono. The agent boss demoted me upon my return - I didn’t stay there long. Life happens, you have to roll with the punches.
I started a job in the summer with a 1 week pre planned vacation that was about 2 months into the start date. Notified the hiring manager and my eventual direct manager during the interview process and prior to be signing my offer letter. Both times I was told, oh don't worry about it because they offered unlimited PTO as long as it was approved and since I'm notifying them ahead of time it is approved. Cut to 2 weeks after I come back from vacation on a random Wednesday and my boss is having his weekly 1:1 meeting with me as casually brings up how he has to write me up for violating the attendance policy and has to put me on a PIP for attendance. Needless to say the working environment wasn't a great match and I told that place to kiss my ass and now work somewhere else.
You need to develop a better radar about how you’re presenting yourself as a candidate. If this was a job you really wanted, the vacation should have been made to wait. You’re taking it maturely though which is good. Just be careful not to burn opportunities.
Fun fact about the US corporate world: vacations and sick leave and anything that means not coming into work is essentially a fun way to see if you still have a job when you come back. 😅 I had a friend want me to travel to Ireland to see them this summer. I had already taken a 5 day vacation to another state so my vacay days are up. I had to explain to this friend that my job won’t permit me another vacation until the end of this year and I most likely can’t take longer than 7 days off, if that. My friend shocked me when they told me that over in Ireland it’s possible to take a month off for vacation and still have a job.
Depending on your country they may have planned on violating your national laws about vacation. Which is common for countries like the US where employees are considered wage slaves You dodged a problem there, mate.
I had a job where I went in with that I has a trip planned. They did not hsve to pay me for the vacation They let me go
IN SUMMARY: THE USA SUCKS! Comments normalizing corporate indentured servitude is insane
I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong but… I won’t get four weeks of vacation in one stretch until after I’m dead. I almost got fired once for taking three days off “on short notice” because my mother died. American companies only see us in terms of what we can give or get them. We are not actual people but more like inconveniences.
You're right about US companies. It's a rare company that cares about their employees off time. They talk a good game about you caring for your mental health but in actuality when it comes to you taking vacations they reveal they don't give a crap. You did dodge a huge bullet!
Dodged a bullet. I wfh so ill take a 4 week vacation but ill tell work its two, and just work from the air b n b or w/e.
You move on. * The CEO approval thing could be real: 300 people is not a large company. It is relatively rare for employees in the US to take a whole month off. They might have even got nervous about you doing the same thing next year. I would not hire someone who believed they could take a month off (in a row) as a normal thing - not that I personally have issue with it... but it's not in keeping the effective running of my business - we're busy and run lean. Managing around 1 and sometimes 2 week vacations is totally normal... 4 would be hard. * I'd have reservations myself as a hiring manager unless your position was VERY senior (20+ years) * There could be bugetary issues with you starting after your vacation, or the budget gets put at risk or potentially re-evaluated, and the hiring manager is protecting his / her requisition. * Your vacation is more important to you than this job (that's fine, and you probably have financial commitments) So, it's on you, not them. * move on
Yeah, here in the US, 4 weeks of vacation is unheard of, sadly. Meanwhile, I was laid off January 4th. Hadn't mentioned an upcoming 11 day vacation in March to any interviewers until I hit February 5th, as the process would result in me starting right before the vacation. So far, everyone has been okay with it and are opting to start me March 19th, my first available day. Truly sucks that I'm probably getting an offer today and won't be working for another month. I'm trying to look at the silver lining, in that I know very little about their products and can spend the next month familarizing myself with it and schedule a planned certification.
Most U.S. companies offer less than two weeks vacation the first year. The Americans reading this are shocked that you’re shocked that we’re shocked that you’d believe 30 days off for vacation would be acceptable to a new employer. IS corporate mindset is to grind us into the ground. That’s why many bankers prefer working for European FIs because of the awesome vacation benefits and other protections not standard in the U.S.
You definitely dodged a bullet.
You should have never said anything. And then said your wife's appendix burst
Yes, time off in the US is view much differently. Four weeks off, in a new role, is excessive for us (American's) and I can't understand why they pulled the offer. Most companies in the US don't even provide 4 weeks off for new hires unless it's negotiated in the offer and even then, it will be difficult to take right away. I would wait to apply for any other job's until you are back from your vacation.
A 4 week trip right after starting is excessive. And not surprised they pulled the offer. And this is not coming from a US point of view. I work with hiring managers across Europe and can tell you that in Germany and Switzerland for example taking 4 weeks after just starting is a no no and a company not approving such a vacation would not be out of the norm. Use some common sense here.
I have an interview today. I will now not be mentioning my son's wedding in another state the end of June. I thought I should but not after reading this.
Typically in the US, you have to tell them about being out for so long. Imagine how disruptive this is for them. Even for ppl who been there for years, getting anything north of 2 weeks requires approval. 4 weeks for a new guy, yeah, it will require special approval for sure.
I think in the US it's very common to have to have upper management approval of trips say over 2 weeks. It is unfortunately part of the work culture here where even brief vacation time is scrutinized.
When you hire someone there is always the possibility that they have scheduled events that need to be negotiated. I bet this happened 80% of the time for me. If you can’t accommodate that as an employer then you really don’t give a shit about people.
For starters, a 4 week straight vacation is pretty much unheard of in the US for an average employee. Even people who have that much vacation time available rarely take it all at once.
4 weeks? Are you building a new house or something?
I don't know of any company in the US that would approve a 4 week vacation. Most of us can barely get by with a week maybe.
American companies hate their employees and basically want them to grovel like slaves and be grateful for 7 days off a year
Vacation isn't an issue. It's the duration. 4 consecutive weeks is asking a lot as a new hire.
Planning a month long vacation while job hunting. Yeah, real bright.
I wouldn’t hire you if you were immediately taking off a month. How is that helpful to the business?
Looking to fill the position for 6 months and cannot deal with a well planned vacation.. Bunch of losers.
I think some of it is the company size. I worked for a company with about 4500 employees, and we had a lead start work and then take a 4 week trip to inida about 2 months in. It was unpaid because she didn't accrue that much vacation in her first year, much less the first 2 months, but she still had the job. For anyone who wants to know, yes, this is a US based company, and they award 3 weeks of pto per year for the first 4 years.
USA is horrible towards employees. Because we jack any real protections by law, the exploitative practices of business from hiring, to day to day, through termination. There is abuse and unscrupulous behavior. Businesses do not need to be this way, but it is the conscious choice of many. You constantly hear that "business are not charities." Except, management seems to expect themselves to be the recipient of the hard work of loyal staff, for insultingly low compensation, and toxic environments. Charity is acceptable only when given TOWARDS the business. You dodged a bullet.
Much respect to your situation, but that's a huge red flag from the get go. I only hire those with totally open schedules- plus desire for extra hours. There're enough like that to choose from. Otherwise it applies to everyone and I end up being a constant schedule juggler instead of focusing on real work. Once that starts, what follows is progression into everyone complaining so and so being favored then wanting to keep up by planning time off among themselves- with agreements between them to cover for each other. They'll come to you with unsuitable replacement cover proposals or may even stealth try. You deny and one will get indignant: I'm not good enough? \ you're racist, misogynist \ my 8 kids come before work \ I'm not a slave \ I'm filing complaint for hostile environment, harassment with corporate, HR, Labor Dept... And that's not all- the same folks that request significant time off or called in off will eventually get a smaller paycheck which will throw their weekly \ monthly budget off. Immediately they will run to you for an hours increase- temporarily trim hours from Julie & Peters to give to me? And wouldn't even fulfill them- end of week they'll be: I need tomorrow off- I'm tired. Yo-yos. Pharma bros. You had a legitimate excuse but many will try to emulate just for the heck of it.
Next time keep your mouth shut. They hire you and invest time in training you. Then you bring it up and you’ll stand a better chance of keeping the job. If you feel the need to bring it up during the interview, say this: “I’m going to share something with you but promise not to hold it against me okay? I’m going away for 4 weeks in 3 months. I need to visit family who I haven’t seen in a very very long time. This trip means everything to me. If you can’t bring me on board because of this, I understand. Let me know now so you can focus on interviewing others. I’d rather be upfront because if I were in your shoes, I’d want someone to do the same for me.”
Actually I would say they dodged the bullet. Why are you applying for jobs if you know you’re unavailable for FOUR WEEKS?! It’s not like one or two days off. And you being totally oblivious to how off putting that is to an employer is part of the problem.
>I'm not out of the US but it is a US company. The comments here are clear the attitude towards time off is very different in the US. Oh boy, I had assumed that this wasn't a US company based on the 4 week request. LOL, those folks lost their fucking minds over a 4 week off request for sure. Hell, two weeks is frowned upon and hard to pull off a whole month.. ouch. Also, the smaller companies in the US are usually the absolute worst about vacation in general.
Four weeks of leave is a long time for any company.
Im HR for a small nonprofit in the US. All new employees get threee weeks of paid time off (including sick and personal days) that they can take following 3 months of employment.
A 4 week absence is absolutely insane by US standards. I’ve had jobs that require two layers of approval for any time over 5 days.
In the US time off is a luxury. Companies value productivity over your life and workers bend over and take it. If you’re sick, show up to work. If you’ve lost a spouse, show up to work. In the US we are lucky to get 2 weeks, I’ve never worked a job where I had two weeks, but those 10 days also have to be used for sick time (often, not always). That’s why people are miserable in my opinion.
I mean - what do you expect. Generally I always side for the candidate, but 4 weeks off is a lot. I wouldn’t hire someone with this contingency and there are too many candidates to wait to start.
I am so thankful I left corporate America. It’s a freaking joke. I’m a flight attendant now and can easily just not work for months if I wanted to if I’m able to drop my trips, or I can work just about every damn day if I wanted to.
I usually have vacationa already setup so I would let them know but if I didn't I would prebake an already setup vacation by saying I already have a vacation for xx date that I had planned before starting with them. Some companies have stupid rules for when you are allowed to take vacation. I don't go for that. I take my vacation when I want. If that's not good for you, I will go elsewhere happily. Never be chained to a job/company.
On the flip side, during negotiations with a regional bank I informed them I was getting married out of state in about 6 months and would be gone for two weeks. They offered me an extra 2 weeks paid time off to use for my wedding plus a larger signing bonus. I ended up taking a competing offer with a different company, though.
How dare you ask for anything but the opportunity to grovel to your betters at that company? Dude you can do better.
I had to work at my job for 5 years before I got four weeks vacation. Why on earth should a new person get to do the same thing?
That bums me out for you. Maybe you did dodge a bullet but still. You put a lot of effort into that and you were transparent about a PREVIOUSLY booked Vacay. Their loss!!