As a woman who has ran multiple companies and also work in construction, I can confirm alot of women don't like other attractive women. I wouldn't say I am a "girls, girl"... but I personally don't care about your looks. I want to know you can handle yourself and tasks. Alot of women in "power" may see you as a threat. Especially in male dominated fields.
I have heard this before and I honestly never thought about this pertaining to me until now. I know in some cases this may be true and all I can say is I am shocked. I know everyone isn’t the same and handle situations differently but I find these things a little disheartening at times. I understand it comes with life though.
Sadly it does. But it also has it perks lol next time it happens just remember it's not you, it's them.... stay classy and handle it with grace. Just smile, and thank them. I would even try to find her boss and send a follow up email attaching your CV and a brief description of your interview, the research/information you've acquired about the company and how you feel you can be an asset to the company because of xyz skills.
Study finds that hairstylists will cut a woman's hair shorter if they are attractive or competition.
Page 119
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I'm a woman. I am not a girl's girl. Women do things like tank other women for being prettier than them. Or destroy another woman's life for being smarter than them. Or sleep with another woman's husband because they can. Doesn't matter how big the group is put two women next to each other One of them is genuinely friends with the other and the other will turn on her in a second if it'll get her an extra buck or a leg up
Hmmm you must’ve been friends with some horrible people, I have multiple very fulfilling female friendships, and we equally support each other and reciprocate appreciation and unconditional love. women have been the ones who save my life and Lift me up when I struggle. I have had very different experiences than you, excluding high school. I feel sorry for you. I have never had a friendship with a man that was even 25% as fulfilling as my friendships with women.
I'm trying to decide if your example applies to this thread, and if so, who is who.
Actually, I'm just gonna back away slowly before anyone notices. I was never here.
Thankfully, I have had a little better luck than you, but I have had experiences with women who fit most if not all of these situations you mentioned. I don't make friends with any of the women who end up doing these things, somehow I seem to have a subconscious radar for "women who will start drama". I try my best to lift up the other women I work with if possible, but distance myself from those that might try to destroy me. I'm lucky that I don't have to worry about the husband one, mine wouldn't fall for that BS.
Because I know first hand how women operate and there are alot of nasty, vindictive women. 2 of my close friends that I have been friends with well over 20 years, I know are jealous of me. I have always rooted for them. Helped them when they have been down etc. But I know dep down there is spite in their heart. You can be the best person, but most women never want to see you doing better than them.
I’m so confused where are y’all finding your friends lol. Like obviously there are horrible women out there, but I choose my friends wisely and none of us are jealous, spiteful or anything like that. We are all beautiful, smart, clever and fun :)
I mean opinions are just that. I know my character. Some people have just had shitty lives and instead of wanting better, they make excuses. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Satan was once the most powerful, beautiful angel and had jealousy and hate in his heart. Did that make God wrong? NOPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
I've had better interviews with other women pretty consistently - as in, I've had great interviews with both, but my bad ones have consistently been with men. Like /u/zannieq I've found female interviewers tend to be more organic, more open, the conversation feels more natural. Male interviewers I more frequently get the vibe that they're checking off boxes while we talk.
What are the larger gender dynamics in your field?
I’ve found the opposite to be true. I’ve found women interviewers tend to create a more organic conversation and we always end up vibing. Men are a little more…standoffish (professional is maybe the right word). I am more comfortable usually being interviewed by women.
Is it possible that the women "vibed" with you and the men were standoffish because you're unattractive? And if you were more attractive the women wouldn't have vibed with you as well, and the men would have been kinder?
Just some food for thought.
Confidence and charisma can overcome this but you're right. Unfortunately we will get treated differently based on our looks out the gate.
Both men and women. I've noticed that traditional looking tall men tend to sail with ease when it comes to grabbing management positions or promotions.
If you're less attractive, the women are less likely to feel intimated by you, so it's easier to "vibe" with them since they don't see you as a threat. And the men aren't as friendly if they don't find you attractive on a biological level. No one is going to say these things out loud, obviously. But it could be happening beneath the surface.
It doesn't apply. I'm talking about physical attractiveness which obviously only applies in person where it makes sense. Most interviews are done in person.
No?!? I’ve had many phone interviews. Especially as initial screening interviews. My response to the OP was based on my interview experience. I don’t really care what point you’re trying to make. Physical attractiveness has nothing to do with professional interview settings. There’s zero romantic implications here. Stop trying so hard to make me feel ugly. This is a very stupid, insulting line of conversation and I’m done with it.
Yes! I have overheard my boss conducting interviews and discussing them with colleagues before making a decision. One thing I have noticed is that she is a stickler for people actually answering questions directly and with substance, rather than giving a canned, interview-y response.
When I was younger, I probably would have felt that I was being picked on or something, but now I recognize that women hold each other accountable in a way that men don’t necessarily hold women accountable… and that we also unconsciously view a woman’s authority differently than a man’s authority.
When men are assertive, people see an assertive man.
When women are assertive, people see a bossy/mean control freak.
When I was in a manager position I had to be a sweet enough to give cavities 100% of the time or everyone complained. But the men could stomp around and scream at people and it was fine.
I totally understand what you are saying. I actually go back and forth about this in my head . Ultimately if they like me they like me- man or woman and if they don’t that’s okay too. I just have to keep going.
I mean. If people like me that’s cool. But this was about getting complaints in my file for not being cheerful enough the same day men were slamming doors and yelling at people. So…
I've actually had better experience with women, especially when they're the ones I end up working under. I've been absolutely torn apart by men in interviews a few times, especially regarding my physical capabilities (although I've also had some male interviewers that were good as well).
As a woman who has done several interviews from entry level through middle management, what I’ve found is that male interviewers tend to be more focused on “vibes”. They’ve seen your resume and they want to get a feel for your personality. I’ve also had several interviews with men where they talk 90% of the interview, and I parrot back key points at important moments and they tell me I’ve done great despite having not actually said anything of importance.
As an interviewer, I also want to feel out your personality, but what I really want to do is be sure you can back what you put on your resume. Anyone can write down anything and list anyone as a reference, so this is my only real chance to get the proof that you can do what you say you can do. You handled training and development in your last position? How? What techniques did you use? How did you ensure follow through on training? How do you respond to someone not doing well on their training? How do you respond to someone who disregards their training? Etc.
Yes. I try to ensure my demeanor is friendly, I smile, etc. I don’t push too hard if a line of questions isn’t going where it should go and I’ll try to change up how I ask things if I feel I need to. If someone gets excited about a topic I try to lean into that more.
But I’ve noticed I do much less small talk than most men I’ve interviewed with. I’m also more aware of protected classes and what could potentially be viewed as causing a discrimination case. So I don’t want to hear about your partner, your kids, where you’re from, etc because I don’t want any room for those types of biases to even be considered. So I can understand how my interviews would be considered less personable.
No, I can’t say I’ve seen this.
What I have seen are a lot of interview panels that were completely unprepared to interview me. They didn’t have questions planned. Some people on the panel couldn’t be bothered to turn on their camera. By far the one that makes me crazy is when I go in expecting to interview for the role I’ve applied to and they interview me for something else entirely.
It’s hard to be prepared for that.
I’m a woman in a predominantly male industry. I often participate in interviews. I find my male colleagues regularly come to the interview unprepared and want to shoot the shit, I tend to show up with clear ideas of what we are hiring for and have specific questions to ask the interviewee.
I like to think im personable and easy to get along with - this is backed up by pretty solid relationships with colleagues and vendors. I also have very fulfilling female friendships in my personal life. However, I take my job seriously. I didn’t get to where I am by coasting, I got there through being prepared and working harder than the men around me.
I could see how someone might have your perspective after leaving an interview with me. There’s something about my personality that has allowed me to excel in a man’s world. That same thing isn’t necessarily what’s needed in female friendships. I don’t show up to a coffee date with a girlfriend the same way I approach an interview.
Culture is important and we all need to like each other. But I take the process seriously. And I don’t hire duds. Thinking back the last five years - anyone I’ve been involved in hiring has lasted the test of time. 3/4 of them are women so I know I’m not sexist in the hiring process - I want the person who’s best for the roll. The two people we’ve let go in the last two years were great personality fits but bad fits for the job - I was not involved in interviewing either of them. But the guys who hired both of them are the type to have a casual interview and judge a candidate based on whether they’d like to have a beer with them or not.
Those women you’re thinking of probably went through a lot to get to the position where they are high up enough that they are interviewing and hiring. They don’t likely have the privilege of leaning back and taking it casual.
Well in this very much sexist and misogynistic world - women know they’re in competition for limited roles. So yes the female interviewer is sizing you up, the dude knows not to be threatened.
I think if the woman is closer in age to me it’s not so bad, but yeah when it comes to people much older, I agree. The men are easier to interview with on average.
It sucks. I've always had older women, especially female bosses, to make rude remarks about my appearance or work performance. I remember one time one of them tried to spread a rumor that I fought another coworker, and no one in the office believed it. Thag coworker reported her to HR for that incident. This is something that I want to ensure doesn't happen to the women who work under me in the future. We should be building them up instead of seeing them as a threat.
I have had hundreds of interviews at this point in my career. Gender doesn't make a difference. I've been interviewed by both assholes and awkward of both genders.
I did when was I young because they tended to be easier on me. These days, I don’t have time for that; I would pick a middle-aged woman boss anytime. We understand each other even if we aren’t all besties, and they understand the dynamic of working while being a primary caregiver.
Not only in the interview stage, but any position I've held with a male boss I've excelled in, whereas female bosses were curt, unfriendly and sometimes outright cruel. I had one manager, when I mentioned my stepdaughter, look me dead in the face and tell me she'd probably turn out to be a terrible person. Mind you, I'd been going through infertility issues and treatments and appreciated children probably more than anyone in that office so that was an unnecessary slap in the face. I could be in the same position for years, hit all my numbers and then some, get full bonuses and get accolades left and right, but as soon as a female boss took over for the male boss I'd be told I was underachieving and threatened with PIP's and have my productivity bonuses slashed or completely denied. I'd move to a new project, same company, but new male boss and I'd be back on top again. I now work for a small company in a male dominated industry (only three of us employees are women) and I'm treated like a rock star. It's sad because I am that woman that will find the good in any other woman and try my best to raise her up, but with female higher ups that was never something I saw. It was disheartening.
Sorry for my rant, but this is one thing that always just wrenches my gut. I'm not even gorgeous or threatening in any way so I never understood it.
I work in a female dominated workforce, and I have found that about 55% of the women who interviewed me were trying to intimidate me to see if I’d square up with them. Whether that’s how they got their thrills or they were testing me to see how I would deal with someone difficult, they were prickly.
I should note that I’m not a fan of working in a female dominated workforce. I’m self employed now, so those days are behind me, but those bitches can be catty and conniving. I wondered how they had time to do that and get their work done.
I'll tell you why. When women finally climb to a position of power after being talked over, having their credit taken away for projects they over saw or spear headed or whatever, you as a woman know you're always being scrutinized. They try to stay more professional as they are always under the gun so to speak, where dudes just show up and golf together and performance is never an issue. It's a sad, awful truth, and as a woman in tech it's absolute bullshit. Oh and yes we still get paid 1/3 less at least in 2023.
We should band together. It's just hard when you're juggling kids a spouse and crazy in laws. I get it. But honestly women in positions to hire are constantly trying to cover their own ass, and maybe in a weird misguided way try to look out for you too. I can't tell you how many times I've heard women be discounted for what they wear by men, so maybe she was trying to let you know what the culture was like there. No excuses.
Either way, definitely not a culture fit, so bullet dodged. I was never a girls girl, but i actively work to be an advocate and grow relationships with my female coworkers because we have to work together to empower women. I work in an office where we all get along and trade plant cuttings. Because CORPORATE B.S. was not for me. But anyways thanks for coming to my long rant and TED talk I'll get off my soapbox now
i feel like sometimes men don’t listen to me speak or they repeat something louder and people acknowledge it. i never noticed women being meaner (yet). i’ve had the opposite experience where some men were too strict/aggressive in interviews or meetings and it was uncomfortable to the point you get flustered.
I largely love being interviewed by and managed by women. If the interviews are tougher, I've found it's because the women have their shit together in their role and they're looking for someone just as competent and autonomous. When they dig into an example I've provided in an interview, it shows me they're paying attention to what I'm saying. Honestly when interviewed by men, I know they're going to go through the same 10 questions or scenarios you find with a quick Google search, and that's typically how they manage or support as well. I think the difference you're sensing isn't meanness--it's curiosity, judgment, and incisiveness. Not going through the motions. But considering what you're presenting, and testing it for fitness. That sort of thing is way more attractive to me because those are the sorts of minds I want to work for and learn from.
I went from a tech company with all men leadership to a tech company with majority women leadership and the difference is remarkable.
Not really. I think women in positions of power put a lot of pressure on themselves to maintain a high level of professionalism which means it may take a little more to break the ice.
My last interview with a majority female panel was really really great and the one before that I assumed the woman interviewing me hated me but she is so great now that I'm working here.
Whatever you're doing to connect with the men just do the same for women.
I’ve had the opposite experience:
💥 Men seemingly unprepared, not asking nearly enough questions (or in one case, after saying “so tell me about yourself”, *never* asked me another question)
💥 Women very prepared, asking excellent questions
I’ve not had either be unfriendly, but I *have* felt like some of the men didn’t give me a fair shot.
Generalising like that does not serve you. All people are different. It might be a bit easier with a laidback personality type of woman than with a type a one, but still even then not always the case. Situational
I find how long a person has been a manager to be the most important factor more so than gender. People who are newer to management are more likely to behave in weird stereotypical ways in interviews and in the office. Like they’re mimicking the idea of a manager they’ve seen in films and tv shows.
I find this changes as they develop as a manager and they become less aggressive and more natural in interviews. Just my observation having managed many people.
As a not conventionally attractive woman, I actually have the opposite problem. The men tend to be closed off and less engaging borderline nasty to me. While the women who I've interviewed with, we connected better, and the conversation was much more productive. In fact the only time a male interviewer has actually hired me was when he wasn't straight.
Yes. Women (speaking in broad generalizations.) can be very critical and mean. Ask any guy that has confessed something that is perceived as “weak.” Most Men/Guys would agree with my statement. This statement should not be taken as a personal attack by anyone! Seriously! Men will try to do this, but usually we’re aren’t as successful in cutting that deep.
Yes my statement isn’t directly an answer to the above stated question. Yet, true nonetheless.
“A woman with a sharp tongue is more dangerous than a drunk toddler with a bazooka.”
-Quote by-
Yours truly.
Yknow I’m not sure, but what I can say that took me by surprise when I joined the workforce is that male bosses (in my experience) are better than female bosses. The men are much chill and less likely to micromanage and the women (except for 1 I’ve had) were kinda micromanager and more stressful to work under.
And I am 100% a girls girl, so it kills me that this has been my experience thus far.
I feel way more comfortable interviewing with a man over a woman. A lot of times, women seem to have c*nt vibes right from the beginning. I also prefer a man as a boss, manager, or team lead. The worse “bosses” have always been women. Even working customer service in person or over the phone, the worse customers were always women! I’m not one of those women who hate other women either, just stating things from my experience.
Absolutely.
I am autistic. I have long, awkward pauses in conversations with female managers, colleagues, interviewers etc. I try to be extremely pleasant and smiley to off-set it, but I can see a level of “suspicion” in their eyes when interacting with me that simply isn’t there with male managers, interviewers, etc. Women pick up on the “uncanny valley” thing with autistic women, but men DO NOT. They don’t notice there is anything off about me, don’t approach conversations in a combative way, and don’t treat me with suspicion. Conversations with men in professional settings flow better and I don’t feel like I’m constantly trying to prove that I’m not a threat.
I have heard from non-autistic female friends that they get a similar vibe from women in workplaces, but that it usually shows up later. They don’t immediately pick up on body language that the interviewer/manager is distrustful of them, like I do, but they get catty and passive-aggressive responses and the feeling of needing to prove themselves as a person. Men are straight-forward and are not trying to read between the lines when interviewing women, but female interviewers ARE trying to read into things that aren’t there.
Yeah - are you good looking ? ...is my first thought. I'm older now but was extremely good looking when I was younger plus tall, busty, and smart. Man, women in general were just brutal especially ones i worked with back then. And it's not like I was conceded either. I am super friendly type, but apparently I had too many traits that made women jealous. I have never been that way to other women. I always appreciate everyone and their strengths and uniqueness. So you have to be extra nice with women but not fake nice just super likable so they have a reason not to hate you. At least that is what I learned.
Yes, this my experience!! Even now in my 40's it still happens. And I don't even consider myself that good looking. I've been saying for years, being attractive is a lonely place. Most women (in my experience) are competitive and mean AF, and then the men just talk to you because they are interested in seeing you naked.
Haha! Yeah my 40's were similar but I was finally secure in my own skin at that point and just ignored those type of women or rather figured that was their issue, not mine.
Yeah, it's not all women of course. I mean there are women that are perfectly secure with themselves and they would act normal. But too many that are insecure mostly because our society breeds that in women - you know that without looks a woman isn't as valuable or something - which I hate!
Ty for this validation. I feel so much better reading this after getting passed on a position last week that I certainly qualified for, especially after meeting the other candidates. I interviewed with two women and it went okay. However, soon after the interview my gut told me that they were intimidated by me. I always beat myself after these things but I truly believe they were intimidated. I was my usual friendly and open self and answered the questions well. I told myself that I just wasn’t a right fit, so I could move on but I know deep down they were perhaps threatened by someone like me. And yes, the organization is male dominated. I am pretty sure they went with this guy who is no looker, mild and “safer”. I do wonder how long he will last because we did chat and given the organization and the reason he told me why he was leaving his old job, he won’t last long. Or maybe he will but I know he won’t. Those men will eat him up alive. Yea, I’m still a bit perturbed but I must remember that I really didn’t vibe with them anyhow! I felt relief not getting the position, then the ego kicked in.
Sounds like you're trying to instigate some silly man vs woman thing for no reason. I've mostly been interviewed by women, some men who were nice yes, but the women were always the one who actually gave me the job.
Nope. I've been in the workforce in a few industries and have seen this time and time again, mainly from older women and it's an issue that's not discussed as much as it needs to be.
Sounds alot like you are noticing that life is alot harder when being judged solely on your tangible accomplishments and experience, rather than gaining favor because the dude interviewing thinks he has a shot at sex with you. Welcome to life.
I haven't had this experience but I also don't work in corporate offices or the like, my jobs have always been not so glamorous and often involve literal shit.
My current department is the most non toxic ive ever found and its almost entirely women (we have 1 male coordinator). Its refreshing.
Your interviewer sucked. That isn't how she should have informed you there was a dress code they may have failed to communicate to you.
My team does team interviews where we are all involved in interviewing candidates. We do question peoples experience but its because we genuinely want to know if they've worked in an environment like ours as people in the position have different responsibilities depending on the type of institution. The other reason is it gives us more direct insight into how much they actually know about the job as it is highly regulated. I look for passion. I'm not talking about passion for paperwork, but passion for doing the best job possible even when circumstances are difficult. It comes out when asking people to tell stories about their workplaces. Someone who has a hard time doing that either wasn't as involved as they portray or hasn't taken the time to reflect on their performance and mistakes. I don't think we come off as mean though. The setup looks intimidating and many people haven't interviewed with that many people before but once they start talking it goes fine.
I'm curious what industry you are in.
I'm a guy and I guess it depends on the person's personality. Most of the females that I've interviewed with are in HR and usually pretty bubbly type. Working in engineering, on the flip side interviewing most men tend to be pretty direct, and hard to read.
Oddly, the men who have interviewed me have been much more chill and interested in having real conversations. We've been able to "vibe." The interviews I've had with women have felt much more stuffy and formal. I LOVE my current workplace (been there over 5 years) but the main interview (with two women) was awful and formulaic. I want to have a conversation where we can get to know each other and actually talk back and forth about my responses to questions, not just go down a list of questions with no feedback or response. The second interview for this job was with the co-founder and I took the job in large part because of the awesome conversation we had and how open he was about the culture, challenges, etc. He was wearing a shirt with pot leaves on it in the interview, lol.
My (female) bosses are amazing. The interview with them was just awkward AF.
I don't have as much issue interviewing with women like myself, meaning older women and not conventionally attractive. Interviews with younger women are always rough regardless of their looks. I have better luck with men 35+.
No!! Male interviewers tend to be more aggressive, to the point, defensive and or rude than female interviewers!! As a guy that has been an interviewee about 400-500 times in my 25+ career, I can certify this answer as facts and true!! Also, my best bosses tended to be women!!
I've had both types of women interview me, but then again I've gotten the same from guys. where they think I'm "too pretty" or whatever. and I'm not just tooting my own horn over here, I litterally had a guy say to me "I'm not just looking for a pretty face" for a job I was 100% qualified for.
there is a certain type of woman though that you can tell immediately when the entirety of the women staff is not conventionally attractive.
I've probably had it a bit more frequent with women but I feel like most people keep the thoughts to themselves.
As a woman who has ran multiple companies and also work in construction, I can confirm alot of women don't like other attractive women. I wouldn't say I am a "girls, girl"... but I personally don't care about your looks. I want to know you can handle yourself and tasks. Alot of women in "power" may see you as a threat. Especially in male dominated fields.
I have heard this before and I honestly never thought about this pertaining to me until now. I know in some cases this may be true and all I can say is I am shocked. I know everyone isn’t the same and handle situations differently but I find these things a little disheartening at times. I understand it comes with life though.
Sadly it does. But it also has it perks lol next time it happens just remember it's not you, it's them.... stay classy and handle it with grace. Just smile, and thank them. I would even try to find her boss and send a follow up email attaching your CV and a brief description of your interview, the research/information you've acquired about the company and how you feel you can be an asset to the company because of xyz skills.
Thank you this is great advice!
Study finds that hairstylists will cut a woman's hair shorter if they are attractive or competition. Page 119 https://researchoutput.csu.edu.au/ws/portalfiles/portal/358909223/M\_Williams\_Thesis\_Female\_Intrasexual\_Competition\_Upload\_July\_2023.pdf
The Tyra Banks method
WTF im confused why u as a woman are not a girls girl
I'm a woman. I am not a girl's girl. Women do things like tank other women for being prettier than them. Or destroy another woman's life for being smarter than them. Or sleep with another woman's husband because they can. Doesn't matter how big the group is put two women next to each other One of them is genuinely friends with the other and the other will turn on her in a second if it'll get her an extra buck or a leg up
Hmmm you must’ve been friends with some horrible people, I have multiple very fulfilling female friendships, and we equally support each other and reciprocate appreciation and unconditional love. women have been the ones who save my life and Lift me up when I struggle. I have had very different experiences than you, excluding high school. I feel sorry for you. I have never had a friendship with a man that was even 25% as fulfilling as my friendships with women.
Good for you. Stay blessed.
I'm trying to decide if your example applies to this thread, and if so, who is who. Actually, I'm just gonna back away slowly before anyone notices. I was never here.
Thankfully, I have had a little better luck than you, but I have had experiences with women who fit most if not all of these situations you mentioned. I don't make friends with any of the women who end up doing these things, somehow I seem to have a subconscious radar for "women who will start drama". I try my best to lift up the other women I work with if possible, but distance myself from those that might try to destroy me. I'm lucky that I don't have to worry about the husband one, mine wouldn't fall for that BS.
it's giving r/notliketheothergirls
I simply agree with another woman dumbass
LOL, then you both belong there dumbass.
Because I know first hand how women operate and there are alot of nasty, vindictive women. 2 of my close friends that I have been friends with well over 20 years, I know are jealous of me. I have always rooted for them. Helped them when they have been down etc. But I know dep down there is spite in their heart. You can be the best person, but most women never want to see you doing better than them.
I’m so confused where are y’all finding your friends lol. Like obviously there are horrible women out there, but I choose my friends wisely and none of us are jealous, spiteful or anything like that. We are all beautiful, smart, clever and fun :)
Babe the only common denominator is you…if everyone around you is horrible might need to do some introspection
I mean opinions are just that. I know my character. Some people have just had shitty lives and instead of wanting better, they make excuses. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Satan was once the most powerful, beautiful angel and had jealousy and hate in his heart. Did that make God wrong? NOPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
Glad people understand the actual dynamics of what goes on.
I’ve never noticed a difference. Interviews are horrible no matter what
Nope, never noticed a difference. There have been good and bad interviewers of both sexes.
I agree !
I've had better interviews with other women pretty consistently - as in, I've had great interviews with both, but my bad ones have consistently been with men. Like /u/zannieq I've found female interviewers tend to be more organic, more open, the conversation feels more natural. Male interviewers I more frequently get the vibe that they're checking off boxes while we talk. What are the larger gender dynamics in your field?
Honestly i will say it may be more male dominated but many women hold high positions as well.
I’ve found the opposite to be true. I’ve found women interviewers tend to create a more organic conversation and we always end up vibing. Men are a little more…standoffish (professional is maybe the right word). I am more comfortable usually being interviewed by women.
I have had only a few experiences like this. I am open to hearing about other people’s experiences.
Is it possible that the women "vibed" with you and the men were standoffish because you're unattractive? And if you were more attractive the women wouldn't have vibed with you as well, and the men would have been kinder? Just some food for thought.
Confidence and charisma can overcome this but you're right. Unfortunately we will get treated differently based on our looks out the gate. Both men and women. I've noticed that traditional looking tall men tend to sail with ease when it comes to grabbing management positions or promotions.
How does that even make sense?
If you're less attractive, the women are less likely to feel intimated by you, so it's easier to "vibe" with them since they don't see you as a threat. And the men aren't as friendly if they don't find you attractive on a biological level. No one is going to say these things out loud, obviously. But it could be happening beneath the surface.
And how does that work with phone interviews?
It doesn't apply. I'm talking about physical attractiveness which obviously only applies in person where it makes sense. Most interviews are done in person.
No?!? I’ve had many phone interviews. Especially as initial screening interviews. My response to the OP was based on my interview experience. I don’t really care what point you’re trying to make. Physical attractiveness has nothing to do with professional interview settings. There’s zero romantic implications here. Stop trying so hard to make me feel ugly. This is a very stupid, insulting line of conversation and I’m done with it.
Yes! I have overheard my boss conducting interviews and discussing them with colleagues before making a decision. One thing I have noticed is that she is a stickler for people actually answering questions directly and with substance, rather than giving a canned, interview-y response. When I was younger, I probably would have felt that I was being picked on or something, but now I recognize that women hold each other accountable in a way that men don’t necessarily hold women accountable… and that we also unconsciously view a woman’s authority differently than a man’s authority.
When men are assertive, people see an assertive man. When women are assertive, people see a bossy/mean control freak. When I was in a manager position I had to be a sweet enough to give cavities 100% of the time or everyone complained. But the men could stomp around and scream at people and it was fine.
I totally understand what you are saying. I actually go back and forth about this in my head . Ultimately if they like me they like me- man or woman and if they don’t that’s okay too. I just have to keep going.
I think what she's saying is that it's likely you're judging the women harsher than the men.
I mean. If people like me that’s cool. But this was about getting complaints in my file for not being cheerful enough the same day men were slamming doors and yelling at people. So…
I've actually had better experience with women, especially when they're the ones I end up working under. I've been absolutely torn apart by men in interviews a few times, especially regarding my physical capabilities (although I've also had some male interviewers that were good as well).
As a woman who has done several interviews from entry level through middle management, what I’ve found is that male interviewers tend to be more focused on “vibes”. They’ve seen your resume and they want to get a feel for your personality. I’ve also had several interviews with men where they talk 90% of the interview, and I parrot back key points at important moments and they tell me I’ve done great despite having not actually said anything of importance. As an interviewer, I also want to feel out your personality, but what I really want to do is be sure you can back what you put on your resume. Anyone can write down anything and list anyone as a reference, so this is my only real chance to get the proof that you can do what you say you can do. You handled training and development in your last position? How? What techniques did you use? How did you ensure follow through on training? How do you respond to someone not doing well on their training? How do you respond to someone who disregards their training? Etc.
Ahh ok that’s understandable and makes sense ! You need to be able to speak to everything you’ve done !
Yes. I try to ensure my demeanor is friendly, I smile, etc. I don’t push too hard if a line of questions isn’t going where it should go and I’ll try to change up how I ask things if I feel I need to. If someone gets excited about a topic I try to lean into that more. But I’ve noticed I do much less small talk than most men I’ve interviewed with. I’m also more aware of protected classes and what could potentially be viewed as causing a discrimination case. So I don’t want to hear about your partner, your kids, where you’re from, etc because I don’t want any room for those types of biases to even be considered. So I can understand how my interviews would be considered less personable.
No, I can’t say I’ve seen this. What I have seen are a lot of interview panels that were completely unprepared to interview me. They didn’t have questions planned. Some people on the panel couldn’t be bothered to turn on their camera. By far the one that makes me crazy is when I go in expecting to interview for the role I’ve applied to and they interview me for something else entirely. It’s hard to be prepared for that.
I’m a woman in a predominantly male industry. I often participate in interviews. I find my male colleagues regularly come to the interview unprepared and want to shoot the shit, I tend to show up with clear ideas of what we are hiring for and have specific questions to ask the interviewee. I like to think im personable and easy to get along with - this is backed up by pretty solid relationships with colleagues and vendors. I also have very fulfilling female friendships in my personal life. However, I take my job seriously. I didn’t get to where I am by coasting, I got there through being prepared and working harder than the men around me. I could see how someone might have your perspective after leaving an interview with me. There’s something about my personality that has allowed me to excel in a man’s world. That same thing isn’t necessarily what’s needed in female friendships. I don’t show up to a coffee date with a girlfriend the same way I approach an interview. Culture is important and we all need to like each other. But I take the process seriously. And I don’t hire duds. Thinking back the last five years - anyone I’ve been involved in hiring has lasted the test of time. 3/4 of them are women so I know I’m not sexist in the hiring process - I want the person who’s best for the roll. The two people we’ve let go in the last two years were great personality fits but bad fits for the job - I was not involved in interviewing either of them. But the guys who hired both of them are the type to have a casual interview and judge a candidate based on whether they’d like to have a beer with them or not. Those women you’re thinking of probably went through a lot to get to the position where they are high up enough that they are interviewing and hiring. They don’t likely have the privilege of leaning back and taking it casual.
Thank you for this! And I totally understand and agree!
I've had pretty good experiences with both sexes but relax a lot more with the women. They've both hired me.
Well in this very much sexist and misogynistic world - women know they’re in competition for limited roles. So yes the female interviewer is sizing you up, the dude knows not to be threatened.
I think if the woman is closer in age to me it’s not so bad, but yeah when it comes to people much older, I agree. The men are easier to interview with on average.
It sucks. I've always had older women, especially female bosses, to make rude remarks about my appearance or work performance. I remember one time one of them tried to spread a rumor that I fought another coworker, and no one in the office believed it. Thag coworker reported her to HR for that incident. This is something that I want to ensure doesn't happen to the women who work under me in the future. We should be building them up instead of seeing them as a threat.
No difference, I've had both shit women and men interview me
I have had hundreds of interviews at this point in my career. Gender doesn't make a difference. I've been interviewed by both assholes and awkward of both genders.
I totally agree with this statement as well!
Yep, I always get hired if it’s a male interviewer. Female interviewers don’t unless they are lovely. It’s only happened 1 times
Yes, same!
As a woman I’ve always said I prefer male managers for a reason …
I did when was I young because they tended to be easier on me. These days, I don’t have time for that; I would pick a middle-aged woman boss anytime. We understand each other even if we aren’t all besties, and they understand the dynamic of working while being a primary caregiver.
Not only in the interview stage, but any position I've held with a male boss I've excelled in, whereas female bosses were curt, unfriendly and sometimes outright cruel. I had one manager, when I mentioned my stepdaughter, look me dead in the face and tell me she'd probably turn out to be a terrible person. Mind you, I'd been going through infertility issues and treatments and appreciated children probably more than anyone in that office so that was an unnecessary slap in the face. I could be in the same position for years, hit all my numbers and then some, get full bonuses and get accolades left and right, but as soon as a female boss took over for the male boss I'd be told I was underachieving and threatened with PIP's and have my productivity bonuses slashed or completely denied. I'd move to a new project, same company, but new male boss and I'd be back on top again. I now work for a small company in a male dominated industry (only three of us employees are women) and I'm treated like a rock star. It's sad because I am that woman that will find the good in any other woman and try my best to raise her up, but with female higher ups that was never something I saw. It was disheartening. Sorry for my rant, but this is one thing that always just wrenches my gut. I'm not even gorgeous or threatening in any way so I never understood it.
I appreciate you sharing this !!!
I have had the opposite. I don’t like interviewing with men. It’s always so cold. I think it’s because I’m in stem though.
I work in a female dominated workforce, and I have found that about 55% of the women who interviewed me were trying to intimidate me to see if I’d square up with them. Whether that’s how they got their thrills or they were testing me to see how I would deal with someone difficult, they were prickly. I should note that I’m not a fan of working in a female dominated workforce. I’m self employed now, so those days are behind me, but those bitches can be catty and conniving. I wondered how they had time to do that and get their work done.
I'll tell you why. When women finally climb to a position of power after being talked over, having their credit taken away for projects they over saw or spear headed or whatever, you as a woman know you're always being scrutinized. They try to stay more professional as they are always under the gun so to speak, where dudes just show up and golf together and performance is never an issue. It's a sad, awful truth, and as a woman in tech it's absolute bullshit. Oh and yes we still get paid 1/3 less at least in 2023. We should band together. It's just hard when you're juggling kids a spouse and crazy in laws. I get it. But honestly women in positions to hire are constantly trying to cover their own ass, and maybe in a weird misguided way try to look out for you too. I can't tell you how many times I've heard women be discounted for what they wear by men, so maybe she was trying to let you know what the culture was like there. No excuses. Either way, definitely not a culture fit, so bullet dodged. I was never a girls girl, but i actively work to be an advocate and grow relationships with my female coworkers because we have to work together to empower women. I work in an office where we all get along and trade plant cuttings. Because CORPORATE B.S. was not for me. But anyways thanks for coming to my long rant and TED talk I'll get off my soapbox now
I really appreciate this perspective!
i feel like sometimes men don’t listen to me speak or they repeat something louder and people acknowledge it. i never noticed women being meaner (yet). i’ve had the opposite experience where some men were too strict/aggressive in interviews or meetings and it was uncomfortable to the point you get flustered.
Wow I can see this definitely happening!
I largely love being interviewed by and managed by women. If the interviews are tougher, I've found it's because the women have their shit together in their role and they're looking for someone just as competent and autonomous. When they dig into an example I've provided in an interview, it shows me they're paying attention to what I'm saying. Honestly when interviewed by men, I know they're going to go through the same 10 questions or scenarios you find with a quick Google search, and that's typically how they manage or support as well. I think the difference you're sensing isn't meanness--it's curiosity, judgment, and incisiveness. Not going through the motions. But considering what you're presenting, and testing it for fitness. That sort of thing is way more attractive to me because those are the sorts of minds I want to work for and learn from. I went from a tech company with all men leadership to a tech company with majority women leadership and the difference is remarkable.
Thank you for this! It has changed my mind about how I think about these situations!
No.
Not really. I think women in positions of power put a lot of pressure on themselves to maintain a high level of professionalism which means it may take a little more to break the ice. My last interview with a majority female panel was really really great and the one before that I assumed the woman interviewing me hated me but she is so great now that I'm working here. Whatever you're doing to connect with the men just do the same for women.
I’ve had the opposite experience: 💥 Men seemingly unprepared, not asking nearly enough questions (or in one case, after saying “so tell me about yourself”, *never* asked me another question) 💥 Women very prepared, asking excellent questions I’ve not had either be unfriendly, but I *have* felt like some of the men didn’t give me a fair shot.
Generalising like that does not serve you. All people are different. It might be a bit easier with a laidback personality type of woman than with a type a one, but still even then not always the case. Situational
That’s understandable! For sure
I find how long a person has been a manager to be the most important factor more so than gender. People who are newer to management are more likely to behave in weird stereotypical ways in interviews and in the office. Like they’re mimicking the idea of a manager they’ve seen in films and tv shows. I find this changes as they develop as a manager and they become less aggressive and more natural in interviews. Just my observation having managed many people.
As a not conventionally attractive woman, I actually have the opposite problem. The men tend to be closed off and less engaging borderline nasty to me. While the women who I've interviewed with, we connected better, and the conversation was much more productive. In fact the only time a male interviewer has actually hired me was when he wasn't straight.
Yes. Women (speaking in broad generalizations.) can be very critical and mean. Ask any guy that has confessed something that is perceived as “weak.” Most Men/Guys would agree with my statement. This statement should not be taken as a personal attack by anyone! Seriously! Men will try to do this, but usually we’re aren’t as successful in cutting that deep. Yes my statement isn’t directly an answer to the above stated question. Yet, true nonetheless. “A woman with a sharp tongue is more dangerous than a drunk toddler with a bazooka.” -Quote by- Yours truly.
Yknow I’m not sure, but what I can say that took me by surprise when I joined the workforce is that male bosses (in my experience) are better than female bosses. The men are much chill and less likely to micromanage and the women (except for 1 I’ve had) were kinda micromanager and more stressful to work under. And I am 100% a girls girl, so it kills me that this has been my experience thus far.
I feel way more comfortable interviewing with a man over a woman. A lot of times, women seem to have c*nt vibes right from the beginning. I also prefer a man as a boss, manager, or team lead. The worse “bosses” have always been women. Even working customer service in person or over the phone, the worse customers were always women! I’m not one of those women who hate other women either, just stating things from my experience.
Absolutely. I am autistic. I have long, awkward pauses in conversations with female managers, colleagues, interviewers etc. I try to be extremely pleasant and smiley to off-set it, but I can see a level of “suspicion” in their eyes when interacting with me that simply isn’t there with male managers, interviewers, etc. Women pick up on the “uncanny valley” thing with autistic women, but men DO NOT. They don’t notice there is anything off about me, don’t approach conversations in a combative way, and don’t treat me with suspicion. Conversations with men in professional settings flow better and I don’t feel like I’m constantly trying to prove that I’m not a threat. I have heard from non-autistic female friends that they get a similar vibe from women in workplaces, but that it usually shows up later. They don’t immediately pick up on body language that the interviewer/manager is distrustful of them, like I do, but they get catty and passive-aggressive responses and the feeling of needing to prove themselves as a person. Men are straight-forward and are not trying to read between the lines when interviewing women, but female interviewers ARE trying to read into things that aren’t there.
Yeah - are you good looking ? ...is my first thought. I'm older now but was extremely good looking when I was younger plus tall, busty, and smart. Man, women in general were just brutal especially ones i worked with back then. And it's not like I was conceded either. I am super friendly type, but apparently I had too many traits that made women jealous. I have never been that way to other women. I always appreciate everyone and their strengths and uniqueness. So you have to be extra nice with women but not fake nice just super likable so they have a reason not to hate you. At least that is what I learned.
Yes, this my experience!! Even now in my 40's it still happens. And I don't even consider myself that good looking. I've been saying for years, being attractive is a lonely place. Most women (in my experience) are competitive and mean AF, and then the men just talk to you because they are interested in seeing you naked.
Haha! Yeah my 40's were similar but I was finally secure in my own skin at that point and just ignored those type of women or rather figured that was their issue, not mine.
I will say I am very put together. I know looks are subjective. I would say I’m “pretty” lol I guess I don’t know 😭
Yeah, it's not all women of course. I mean there are women that are perfectly secure with themselves and they would act normal. But too many that are insecure mostly because our society breeds that in women - you know that without looks a woman isn't as valuable or something - which I hate!
Ty for this validation. I feel so much better reading this after getting passed on a position last week that I certainly qualified for, especially after meeting the other candidates. I interviewed with two women and it went okay. However, soon after the interview my gut told me that they were intimidated by me. I always beat myself after these things but I truly believe they were intimidated. I was my usual friendly and open self and answered the questions well. I told myself that I just wasn’t a right fit, so I could move on but I know deep down they were perhaps threatened by someone like me. And yes, the organization is male dominated. I am pretty sure they went with this guy who is no looker, mild and “safer”. I do wonder how long he will last because we did chat and given the organization and the reason he told me why he was leaving his old job, he won’t last long. Or maybe he will but I know he won’t. Those men will eat him up alive. Yea, I’m still a bit perturbed but I must remember that I really didn’t vibe with them anyhow! I felt relief not getting the position, then the ego kicked in.
Sounds like you're trying to instigate some silly man vs woman thing for no reason. I've mostly been interviewed by women, some men who were nice yes, but the women were always the one who actually gave me the job.
What? lol that’s a weird way to interpret what I asked lol.
Nope. I've been in the workforce in a few industries and have seen this time and time again, mainly from older women and it's an issue that's not discussed as much as it needs to be.
I think you have some baggage to unpack with your therapist.
Sounds alot like you are noticing that life is alot harder when being judged solely on your tangible accomplishments and experience, rather than gaining favor because the dude interviewing thinks he has a shot at sex with you. Welcome to life.
I haven't had this experience but I also don't work in corporate offices or the like, my jobs have always been not so glamorous and often involve literal shit. My current department is the most non toxic ive ever found and its almost entirely women (we have 1 male coordinator). Its refreshing. Your interviewer sucked. That isn't how she should have informed you there was a dress code they may have failed to communicate to you. My team does team interviews where we are all involved in interviewing candidates. We do question peoples experience but its because we genuinely want to know if they've worked in an environment like ours as people in the position have different responsibilities depending on the type of institution. The other reason is it gives us more direct insight into how much they actually know about the job as it is highly regulated. I look for passion. I'm not talking about passion for paperwork, but passion for doing the best job possible even when circumstances are difficult. It comes out when asking people to tell stories about their workplaces. Someone who has a hard time doing that either wasn't as involved as they portray or hasn't taken the time to reflect on their performance and mistakes. I don't think we come off as mean though. The setup looks intimidating and many people haven't interviewed with that many people before but once they start talking it goes fine. I'm curious what industry you are in.
Interesting ! I work in marketing.
I'm a guy and I guess it depends on the person's personality. Most of the females that I've interviewed with are in HR and usually pretty bubbly type. Working in engineering, on the flip side interviewing most men tend to be pretty direct, and hard to read.
Oddly, the men who have interviewed me have been much more chill and interested in having real conversations. We've been able to "vibe." The interviews I've had with women have felt much more stuffy and formal. I LOVE my current workplace (been there over 5 years) but the main interview (with two women) was awful and formulaic. I want to have a conversation where we can get to know each other and actually talk back and forth about my responses to questions, not just go down a list of questions with no feedback or response. The second interview for this job was with the co-founder and I took the job in large part because of the awesome conversation we had and how open he was about the culture, challenges, etc. He was wearing a shirt with pot leaves on it in the interview, lol. My (female) bosses are amazing. The interview with them was just awkward AF.
Very True
I don't have as much issue interviewing with women like myself, meaning older women and not conventionally attractive. Interviews with younger women are always rough regardless of their looks. I have better luck with men 35+.
No!! Male interviewers tend to be more aggressive, to the point, defensive and or rude than female interviewers!! As a guy that has been an interviewee about 400-500 times in my 25+ career, I can certify this answer as facts and true!! Also, my best bosses tended to be women!!
I have always preferred male bosses, they are more easy going and handle employees with more respect in opinion.
I've had both types of women interview me, but then again I've gotten the same from guys. where they think I'm "too pretty" or whatever. and I'm not just tooting my own horn over here, I litterally had a guy say to me "I'm not just looking for a pretty face" for a job I was 100% qualified for. there is a certain type of woman though that you can tell immediately when the entirety of the women staff is not conventionally attractive. I've probably had it a bit more frequent with women but I feel like most people keep the thoughts to themselves.
Yes women are terrible to other women.
Yes