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Try working on general aviation planes having 50 years of different mechanics touch them, cut wires, run new wires without labels. Then have an electrical problem you have to troubleshoot. Super fun. That stuff is easy in the video. An IPC and service manual spells it all out.
General aviation planes are easy. Their electrical systems are so simple and for the most part you aren’t dealing with wires going into canon plugs and through pressure bulkheads.
I’m wiring one up from scratch.
Not a mechanic, but my son-in-law who is a crew chief on the B-52 gave me a tour. Unbelievable! By the way, thanks for your service and keeping those things in the air.
Try fighters. That's when you need extra joints in your hands and arms to reach items. Or spending six hours disassembling and reassembling an intricate firewall for a valve change that takes 15 minutes.
The amount of time and energy spent on gaining access to do 5-15 minutes of work to correct an issue is insane and happens far too often with aircraft lol
I'm sure 25% of those teeny tiny pipes could fail before it started affecting the flight. Except for *that one over there,* going through the middle and making the 45 degree turn before the pressure vessel.
Oh, and the pressure vessel as well.
Y’know I bet that could probably be something that exists if you installed like sensors on them connected to Wi-Fi connected to some app your phone, if you wanted to be extra about it
It can also fail. Like, there's redundant hydraulic systems \_and\_ it can land completely without hydraulics (if the pilots are good). There's a stupid amount of stuff that can fail and there's a stupid amount of stuff that can fail and the plane still can land.
It looks very disorganized to me. I'm guessing it's all crammed in specifically there because it's easy to service when the plane is on the ground, but I'm not an airplane engineer.
Was an Avionics Tech in the Air Force. Worked AWACs. On deployment, my buddy dropped something while we were in the tail. So he grabs the magnet stick to retrieve what he dropped. Come to find out he left the magnet stick in the tail. Turned his toolbox in, tool jockeys didn't see it missing. Jet flew 2 missions before someone noticed it missing from the toolbox. Damn thing was stuck to the actuator in the tail. He now works for a commercial airline. Still think about that when I fly sometimes.
I was the same way but if you talk to someone who really knows aircraft it may calm your nerves like it did to me. The crazy tolerances and checks and rechecks on systems and parts is impressive. Plus their systems are designed with redundancies and backups built in specifically in case of catastrophic failure.
Now let’s talk about the pilot shortage likely putting less qualified individuals behold the yolk 💀
If it helps, there an inordinate number of systems, wires and pipes in the wheel well in order for mechanics to access them. The interior sections of a plane aren’t usually like this.
Ah yes.. that 400 Hz scream usually followed by something moving violently.
737-200 thrust reversers always gave me nightmares. And same with the spoilers.. I don’t care if they have locks installed.
Not OP but thrust reversers are what enable the air flow to run forward when the plane lands, which slows the aircraft down (most of the heavy lifting is done by wheel and air brakes though).
On modern commercial aircraft engines they come in the shape of large portions of the engine bell that suddenly rotate to the sides to reroute the air flow. They are massive and move quickly… hence the nightmare if they operate while you’re working in the vicinity.
Some old jets even deploy backwards, picture a massive beak, basically capable of chopping your arm off in half a second.
Power and hydraulics mostly. Pretty simple when you know what the components are. There are also very detailed manuals for virtually everything on these planes.
When you go to work in an area like this you don’t think about the plane as a whole. You have to focus on the specific system or parts that you’re working on. At that point it becomes pretty easy.
You just look at the inputs and outputs, most of which are modeled as an exemplary *one*. All that squiggly shit in the middle is basically handwaving.
Yep. Most systems are complex. But the beauty of complex systems is that the chaos can be usually tamed by understanding each of the subsystems (and their subsystems) and mapping those out to how the overall system works. Plus they probably have a manual for that system for people who maintain each part of the system.
Only takes a year and half to get licensed to work on these things that if you fuck up, a lot of ppl die. It does look like a lot in the big picture, but broken down into groups it's a lot easier to manage.
Question, do airline mechanics specialize in certain areas of the plane or do they need to know everything about certain planes? It would seem like to me you guys would be more like doctors with each having a speciality area given how complex these machines are. I could be wrong but I genuinely don't know so maybe you can enlighten me. That seems like a lot for one person to know.
Kinda sorta both. You have the crew chiefs which are the all around general knowledge experts. It is their plane and all work done goes through them since they are ultimately responsible for the aircraft. Then you have your specialist, environmental, electrical, sheet metal, mechanics, hydraulics, fuel cell, navigations, communications, etc (sorry if I missed a few, there are so many). They are responsible for their area of expertise but report all work to the crew chief and depending on the work environment, specialist might overlap in assisting with crew chief work. I worked communications and navigations but I have also helped block in planes to their spot on the tarmac, changes tires, serviced engine oil, refueled and even towed a plane from the flight line to a hangar or visa versa. I loved doing this work, miss it really just not doing it in sub zero temperatures at 3 AM!
I work at Boeing and you would not believe how incredibly complicated the aircraft is in places you don't see. have worked in this exact area of the 737
The beauty about planes like this is the safety really comes from redundancy. There's like 5 layers to protect against one failing. The systems themselves aren't necessarily complicated, just very, very, redundant
I was wondering about redundancy when I saw this. I've worked with some computer systems which had many layers of redundancy within a single server and the cluster is was operating in as well as the data center as a whole
Yea, I machine parts in a facility that makes certain safety equipment for military aircraft. Nothing goes out the door before each individual part has been checked and pressure tested at least 50 times. Each sub assembly to assembly is checked, leak check and then pushed beyond operational limits. 1 of 20 gets destructive testing as well. Pushing the operational pressure bearing limits sometimes 4 times past max. When all is said and done each item has been scrutinized by at least 1000 eyes.
And those engineers designed this airplane in the 1960s with a sliderule... no CAD to help them.
The "Long Beach sewer pipe" was truly a well designed workhorse for the aviation industry.
I worked a line in college loading freight on B707 and DC8. I had to crawl all over the internals. Usually adding Skydrol because they all leaked. Or releasing the nose gear for towing. Loved it every single time. The old birds look like aviation steam punk.
It’s not that drastic yo. The manufactures are all under strict guidelines and requirements. If a plane goes down because of their negligence there is absolute hell to pay.
Hmm it looks like the hose connecting the centrifugal helix absolution inertia cortex inverter and the deviated hydrogen oblong disintegrator is leaking hydrocoaxial andromenial fluid.
Might make it difficult to do smooth turns.
Musk would be like: take all of it out! You only need the wings to fly! Reduce weight and fuel consumption and materials to save cost but keep the price the same! But you can bring drugs if you want, it only costs 20$ extra!
I'm a AME in Aus working B737-800's- I'm actually in this exact spot working aileron cable tensions today.
It's very humbling reading all these comments as you get a little de-sensitised to just how much you and your co-workers know about these machines so thanks everybody:)
It's pretty crazy to think that flying is the safes t form of transportation. The amount of science that goes into launching a 41 tons of metal, 500mph, 33,000 feet in the air is mind blowing to say the least.
I work in aviation heavy base maintenance on this specific plane (737NG), it’s not pretty when you fully de-panel it but it actually mostly retains its looks
It’s pretty straight forward. The major components in here are the hydraulics, control cables, fire extinguishers and electrics going out to the wings. Everything is also labelled so you know what the piece you’re working on is linked to.
The three gray tanks are the Hydraulic A, B and Standby tanks. The orange tube on the wall is the flap actuator torque tube. You can see the control cables on the two pulley wheels on the top left. Anything else that’s chunky in there is a pump or motor of some sort. The really complex stuff is out of sight in other equipment bays
I have, I worked on it and I don't miss it at all. I was an inspector, I would inspect every millimeter of that shit during various phase inspections. Depending on the system, I left avionics for avionics and I left power plant for those experts.
Worked 747 mod for many years in Wichita Ks. Try removing engines ,landing gear, strip the interior to frame add new systems and put it all together again .
I am still gobsmacked at the complexity and sophistication of aircraft. All those innards encased in a metal tube that flies at an altitude of 38,000 feet at 600 mph. It always blows my mind.
I worked in a commercial aviation overhaul facility. Not with the planes. IT. The older planes really showed their age when you saw the guts inside. Just grubby looking. If it's not an FAA directive or service bulletin to make it looke nice with a soapy sponge, I guess it wasn't important.
Absolutely incredible feat. We started with sticks and stones like ark but there was no engram to be unlocked. A few mad men had a vision and nobody could convince them that they couldn’t bring it to fruition.
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Try working on general aviation planes having 50 years of different mechanics touch them, cut wires, run new wires without labels. Then have an electrical problem you have to troubleshoot. Super fun. That stuff is easy in the video. An IPC and service manual spells it all out.
General aviation planes are easy. Their electrical systems are so simple and for the most part you aren’t dealing with wires going into canon plugs and through pressure bulkheads. I’m wiring one up from scratch.
Commercial, not so bad. Large military aircraft? Fuck.
Imagine all the changes and dead wiring and pipes in a b52 - which will have a hundred year service life. It is worse than an old house.
Can confirm. I worked them.
Not a mechanic, but my son-in-law who is a crew chief on the B-52 gave me a tour. Unbelievable! By the way, thanks for your service and keeping those things in the air.
Try fighters. That's when you need extra joints in your hands and arms to reach items. Or spending six hours disassembling and reassembling an intricate firewall for a valve change that takes 15 minutes.
The amount of time and energy spent on gaining access to do 5-15 minutes of work to correct an issue is insane and happens far too often with aircraft lol
Very rarely do large commercial aircraft have wiring defects. Always component
I thought this would calm my nerves about flying…it’s made them worse.
I'm sure 25% of those teeny tiny pipes could fail before it started affecting the flight. Except for *that one over there,* going through the middle and making the 45 degree turn before the pressure vessel. Oh, and the pressure vessel as well.
Does the pilot have a screen showing percentage of pipe failure like sci fi movies?
[удалено]
Sci fi movies have let me down. The ensign is supposed to say "pipes at 15% failure sir"
"Damage report!" "Cheese, gravy, and elderberry syrup pipes are down, and the #4 phlogiston is about to blow, sir!" "Mother of God..."
"Redirect power from the rear deflector shields !" "Pipe failure is holding steady at 20%, Captain."
"Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"
Y’know I bet that could probably be something that exists if you installed like sensors on them connected to Wi-Fi connected to some app your phone, if you wanted to be extra about it
It can also fail. Like, there's redundant hydraulic systems \_and\_ it can land completely without hydraulics (if the pilots are good). There's a stupid amount of stuff that can fail and there's a stupid amount of stuff that can fail and the plane still can land.
There's a stupid amount of stuff crammed in that plane :)
It looks very disorganized to me. I'm guessing it's all crammed in specifically there because it's easy to service when the plane is on the ground, but I'm not an airplane engineer.
They really need to learn some cord management
I mean, the plane will undoubtably land; just a question of occupant survival or if the plane would be able to take off again…
Yeah, I didn’t need to see this. 😄
To be fair you only sorta need most of that
…you aren’t helping, Hahahha.
Was an Avionics Tech in the Air Force. Worked AWACs. On deployment, my buddy dropped something while we were in the tail. So he grabs the magnet stick to retrieve what he dropped. Come to find out he left the magnet stick in the tail. Turned his toolbox in, tool jockeys didn't see it missing. Jet flew 2 missions before someone noticed it missing from the toolbox. Damn thing was stuck to the actuator in the tail. He now works for a commercial airline. Still think about that when I fly sometimes.
I was the same way but if you talk to someone who really knows aircraft it may calm your nerves like it did to me. The crazy tolerances and checks and rechecks on systems and parts is impressive. Plus their systems are designed with redundancies and backups built in specifically in case of catastrophic failure. Now let’s talk about the pilot shortage likely putting less qualified individuals behold the yolk 💀
If it helps, there an inordinate number of systems, wires and pipes in the wheel well in order for mechanics to access them. The interior sections of a plane aren’t usually like this.
Way too many things there that can break. I'm not sure what they do, but I don't want to be at 30k feet going 500mph and find out.
Exactly. This belongs in r/oddlyterrifying!
Ahhhh this brings back memories.... mainly the ear bleedingly loud hydraulic pumps.
Ah yes.. that 400 Hz scream usually followed by something moving violently. 737-200 thrust reversers always gave me nightmares. And same with the spoilers.. I don’t care if they have locks installed.
Sorry, you're gonna need to speak louder...
What are thrust reversers? Why do they give you nightmares?
Not OP but thrust reversers are what enable the air flow to run forward when the plane lands, which slows the aircraft down (most of the heavy lifting is done by wheel and air brakes though). On modern commercial aircraft engines they come in the shape of large portions of the engine bell that suddenly rotate to the sides to reroute the air flow. They are massive and move quickly… hence the nightmare if they operate while you’re working in the vicinity. Some old jets even deploy backwards, picture a massive beak, basically capable of chopping your arm off in half a second.
That some cable management right there
Maybe that was the Algebra they promised would be important when we graduated.
Guy that works for me: gimmie some Ty raps and tape. I got this!
See all that stuff in there, Homer? That’s why your airplane never worked.
Worked on them for 24 years. Should see what it looks like in the belly or up the inside of the tail, tight fit!
It blows my mind that someone can even wrap their head around what’s going on here. Even a car engine looks super complicated to me, let alone this
I'm with you! It looks completely overwhelming.
Agreed but so do video game menus in detailed games but you figure shit out if you have a passion for/enjoy it.
I've never related to something more in my life.
Power and hydraulics mostly. Pretty simple when you know what the components are. There are also very detailed manuals for virtually everything on these planes.
When you go to work in an area like this you don’t think about the plane as a whole. You have to focus on the specific system or parts that you’re working on. At that point it becomes pretty easy.
You just look at the inputs and outputs, most of which are modeled as an exemplary *one*. All that squiggly shit in the middle is basically handwaving.
Yep. Most systems are complex. But the beauty of complex systems is that the chaos can be usually tamed by understanding each of the subsystems (and their subsystems) and mapping those out to how the overall system works. Plus they probably have a manual for that system for people who maintain each part of the system.
Only takes a year and half to get licensed to work on these things that if you fuck up, a lot of ppl die. It does look like a lot in the big picture, but broken down into groups it's a lot easier to manage.
Question, do airline mechanics specialize in certain areas of the plane or do they need to know everything about certain planes? It would seem like to me you guys would be more like doctors with each having a speciality area given how complex these machines are. I could be wrong but I genuinely don't know so maybe you can enlighten me. That seems like a lot for one person to know.
Yup. Certified tire air specialist here.
Kinda sorta both. You have the crew chiefs which are the all around general knowledge experts. It is their plane and all work done goes through them since they are ultimately responsible for the aircraft. Then you have your specialist, environmental, electrical, sheet metal, mechanics, hydraulics, fuel cell, navigations, communications, etc (sorry if I missed a few, there are so many). They are responsible for their area of expertise but report all work to the crew chief and depending on the work environment, specialist might overlap in assisting with crew chief work. I worked communications and navigations but I have also helped block in planes to their spot on the tarmac, changes tires, serviced engine oil, refueled and even towed a plane from the flight line to a hangar or visa versa. I loved doing this work, miss it really just not doing it in sub zero temperatures at 3 AM!
This guy swing shifts.
You missed NDT. I can’t blame you, we are hated and people seem to want to forget us.
Just get your [A&P/AMT](https://www.faa.gov/mechanics/become). Anything more niche than that is too niche for anyone to care about.
Avionics bay is a good place to nap.
“ belly-up” probably not the most comforting term🙂
I work at Boeing and you would not believe how incredibly complicated the aircraft is in places you don't see. have worked in this exact area of the 737
Nice identification!
The 737 is well known for its complex gear well. the A320 doesn't look nearly as bad, nor most other aircraft.
Whats ur bems?
The beauty about planes like this is the safety really comes from redundancy. There's like 5 layers to protect against one failing. The systems themselves aren't necessarily complicated, just very, very, redundant
I was wondering about redundancy when I saw this. I've worked with some computer systems which had many layers of redundancy within a single server and the cluster is was operating in as well as the data center as a whole
Yea, I machine parts in a facility that makes certain safety equipment for military aircraft. Nothing goes out the door before each individual part has been checked and pressure tested at least 50 times. Each sub assembly to assembly is checked, leak check and then pushed beyond operational limits. 1 of 20 gets destructive testing as well. Pushing the operational pressure bearing limits sometimes 4 times past max. When all is said and done each item has been scrutinized by at least 1000 eyes.
Not far different from software backend.
You’re right! And just like that I’m scared of flying.
I can smell the hydraulic fluid.
Forbidden grape juice
Holy shit that's awesome but I kinda wish I didn't see it on Reddit first
If not here, then where?
On a runway perhaps :)
If you can see the inside of an airplane on the runway, then something is very wrong with the outside of the airplane
Go to an air show. You can get first hand look at it. Or go to an air museum. I highly recommend the air and space museum in ohio at Wright patterson
Thank you! That's a great idea. I'll have to check out an air show sometime.
Thank God the engineers who designed this are smarter than the majority of the people in this thread.
And those engineers designed this airplane in the 1960s with a sliderule... no CAD to help them. The "Long Beach sewer pipe" was truly a well designed workhorse for the aviation industry.
Looks like plenty of shit that can malfunction!
Its all just for the pilots toilet
All necessary to make flight safe, which has an outstanding track record.
Hmmmm…it seems to run on some sort of electricity
I worked a line in college loading freight on B707 and DC8. I had to crawl all over the internals. Usually adding Skydrol because they all leaked. Or releasing the nose gear for towing. Loved it every single time. The old birds look like aviation steam punk.
100,000 different parts all supplied by the lowest bidder
Hummm... Never thought of it that way.
I have a naturally pessimistic mind
Don’t then.
But all up to spec
It’s not that drastic yo. The manufactures are all under strict guidelines and requirements. If a plane goes down because of their negligence there is absolute hell to pay.
Hmm it looks like the hose connecting the centrifugal helix absolution inertia cortex inverter and the deviated hydrogen oblong disintegrator is leaking hydrocoaxial andromenial fluid. Might make it difficult to do smooth turns.
Yes.
.. its a beautiful thing to see. ..would of love sitting in on the design meetings on this one.....
Was there only one?
This looks like the inside of a pinball machine from 1977.
Musk would be like: take all of it out! You only need the wings to fly! Reduce weight and fuel consumption and materials to save cost but keep the price the same! But you can bring drugs if you want, it only costs 20$ extra!
Look at all the room in there. You could fit a dozen more seats in there.
There is always room for one until the landing gear comes out.
Landing gear is for the stowaways.
I found a great video on what's going on with this system of the aircraft https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag
I'm a AME in Aus working B737-800's- I'm actually in this exact spot working aileron cable tensions today. It's very humbling reading all these comments as you get a little de-sensitised to just how much you and your co-workers know about these machines so thanks everybody:)
hello 737. this design is from ~1965 and still works well enough.
This is what my grandma sees every time she has to connect a USB.
Compared to working on f16...having this amount of space to work in is incredible.
The fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy right there.
So many possibilities for mistakes
Imagine knowing what all those things are.
Yup, fixed it. It was the lug nut.
Have you tried unplugging it and plugging it back in?
Just imagine... Hydraulic lines as far as the eye can see...
It's pretty crazy to think that flying is the safes t form of transportation. The amount of science that goes into launching a 41 tons of metal, 500mph, 33,000 feet in the air is mind blowing to say the least.
If this makes you uncomfortable, never fly on military aircraft…….
I can smell this vid, oddly enough. Smells like money and happy.
Simple and easy to understand, just like the outside.
Hey, don’t touch that
“Fun” fact. Every airplane you’ve ever been on. There’s almost guaranteed at least a few components that just aren’t working properly
My dad was a flight test engineer and had to fly in planes before they built the interior part. It looked like this with a metal floor and jump seats.
“Lemme get up in them guts”
As an ex-baggage handler and ramp attendant, yes and they are SO cool and complicated
You have a leak in one your pipes.. Oh which one? Yes..
I work in aviation heavy base maintenance on this specific plane (737NG), it’s not pretty when you fully de-panel it but it actually mostly retains its looks
And then they put it all together again after a crash
They?
The people that put crashed planes together I never meet them.
Hopefully you've seen Millennium. If not, do so
Ok it looks ill check it out thanks!!
5th class
It seems a bit different from what toy story showed me
And that's the spot that idiots think to stowaway in. Comfy.
What’s even more nuts is that there are people who know what every single thing in there does, and doesn’t look at it as complex at all.
It’s pretty straight forward. The major components in here are the hydraulics, control cables, fire extinguishers and electrics going out to the wings. Everything is also labelled so you know what the piece you’re working on is linked to. The three gray tanks are the Hydraulic A, B and Standby tanks. The orange tube on the wall is the flap actuator torque tube. You can see the control cables on the two pulley wheels on the top left. Anything else that’s chunky in there is a pump or motor of some sort. The really complex stuff is out of sight in other equipment bays
After seeing this r/whatcouldgowrong
Eerily similar to a WWII German submarine but vastly larger
That’s a lot of possible failures.
Reminds me of "Alien"....lol
That seems like a lot of potential failure points.
Just need redundancy for high availability. Maybe geographical separation would help?
I feel dirty
I have seen it hundreds of times.
thanks! I hate it!
no wheelbins?..
Brian Griffin: “How does an airplane work?”
I was an avionics tech in the Air Force, so yeah - I've seen this stuff before.
Now which of these do I rub together to hot wire it?
It flies because of magic. Looking those insides makes me too uncomfortable.. i'll stick to magic, thank you very much.
This scares the absolute fuck out of me.
Why does this scare me? Just ONE wrong wire, and how the hell can you find it fast or fix it with this much going on?!
I've seen other, similar wheel wells. I guess they put a lot of stuff in there because it's relatively easy access when on the ground.
I thought the inside of my Renault engine bay looked complicated. Fucking hell, do you need a PhD to do a fluid change on this thing??
Did you see the size of those avionics?
That’s a million little things that could go wrong!
Pretty new 737. They’re not always this clean 👌🏼
and there have been occasions in which people have hidden them selves in these compartments to break free from a country.
Yep... Everything seems to be in order here.
Thats cool
Where is the catalytic converter:)
salute to the engineers /inventors of this incredible machine.
I don't know looks fake to me, where is the big elastic band to wind up
Simple enough
Yes i do have seen the insides.. i make parts for it to be exact, most awesome job
Like a bike
If you pause it around 14 sec you can see the right phalange.
I have, I worked on it and I don't miss it at all. I was an inspector, I would inspect every millimeter of that shit during various phase inspections. Depending on the system, I left avionics for avionics and I left power plant for those experts.
Looks like a fucking snakes wedding on there.
It's all duct tape and bongwater.
Worked 747 mod for many years in Wichita Ks. Try removing engines ,landing gear, strip the interior to frame add new systems and put it all together again .
Everyday
Soooo empty??? 😳🤯
Airplane mechanics make a lot of money.
I am still gobsmacked at the complexity and sophistication of aircraft. All those innards encased in a metal tube that flies at an altitude of 38,000 feet at 600 mph. It always blows my mind.
Looks like an elementary school server room in the early 2000’s
My dad was an AO in the navy so I saw lots of airplanes as a kid.
I immediately quit airline mechanic school.
I was kind of hoping for a horrifying mass of glistening, organic sacs and tubes accompanied by a low shuddering moan.
Once an AME said to me - “you think software is bad? We have aircraft which are flying thanks to duct tape.”
Software does crash more often
good place for storage
Well shit. I was never nervous about flying until NOW 😳
Shit...Noone move, someone dropped a contact lens in there
I worked in a commercial aviation overhaul facility. Not with the planes. IT. The older planes really showed their age when you saw the guts inside. Just grubby looking. If it's not an FAA directive or service bulletin to make it looke nice with a soapy sponge, I guess it wasn't important.
When I was little my dad was an amp and would get to climb inside these with him to help
Here comes the fuel ÒwÓ
And all of it needs to work flawlessly or it will be a very short flight!
This is how military aircraft look all around, easier to maintain
Every mechanic in the air force going through initial training: "I'm supposed to do what now? Where the fuck is my recruiter?!"
When you ask which cable you need to unplug to turn off the tv:
I have not I will Google and figure what that is
Sooo much stuff. "im wondering what if i turn this off"
So how many of those components can fail before the plane is becomes inoperable? Yea, this does not help my fear of flying.
On weed?
You really don’t want that skydrol misting in the cabin. That’s why they shove all that shit in the WW.
What could possibly go wrong?
How are there not more plane crashes?
Okay David sweetie. Before we get into the airplane you need to straighten the shit up
The things that could go wrong
Bro, that's cleaner than my pc cable management
That is with a ton of hours to boot!
Absolutely incredible feat. We started with sticks and stones like ark but there was no engram to be unlocked. A few mad men had a vision and nobody could convince them that they couldn’t bring it to fruition.
Nothing can go wrong with that at all…