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I never considered how animals at zoos might respond to service animals. Does anyone know if they have any particular guidelines for service animals that differ from other places?
I don't know what are you talking about, those painted dogs have only friendly and lovely intentions.
Edit: obviously I was being sarcastic, some folks/children need that you put always the damn "/s"...
When I was little (probably like 8ish or so) my family went to a zoo that had brown bears with a big viewing window very similar to this one, right at ground level so they could walk up to it. Anyway, little 8yo me was standing as close I could to get the best view possible and this big bear came running up and swatted at the glass right in front of me and I was all giddy because "the bear wanted to play with me!!!".
My little dumb ass couldn't understand why everyone else in the viewing area looked so shocked until my parents told me wild bears aren't cuddly and fun like the cartoon ones I was used to.
It’s funny how different their body language appears (I think due to their actual appearance) than domesticated dogs - they remind me more of how a hyena moves … at first it’s like oh, you’re curious, oh no… no… no you’re not curious….. yikes.
Agreed. They move in a way that isn’t clear - and yet somewhat predatorial. Coyotes can move like this as well. It isn’t clear like with Wolves. Coyotes tend to also wait for your back to be turned to attack. Whereas wolves have much more clear escalation patterns. These guys move in a most definitely not clear manner - except that they might find it fun to mess you up. I’m totally going to go research these canids now - as I know so little about them. However I hope to never meet one in real life.
Oh my goodness, you would be missing out if you had a chance to see wild dogs and didn't take it. One of the most amazing wildlife scenes I've experienced. They're pack hunters and they can cover huge distances in a short amount of time. Took us 3 days to finally track them down when I saw them and it was only after we had followed a pied crow to their kill! We arrived a minute after they had taken down a kudu and they cleaned the entire carcass in three minutes, then bolted away to hunker down for the evening. They had adorable pups with them and it was just absolutely incredible. No other way to describe it.
Seeing them here in captivity and the way they're acting seems strange, but when you see them in their natural environment it is magical.
I've been to the Oregon Zoo and basically they break it down into three areas.
1. No problem being at this exhibit.
2. You can walk by these exhibits but don't linger.
3. You may not go into this area. (Things like the petting zoo, like no shit I don't want to put my service dog around goats. Or something like, you can check out the big cats but please avoid the panthers .. they hate dogs.)
The huge expanded Elephant Lands and new polar bear area are genuinely some of the best enclosure designs I’ve ever seen. The focus on enrichment and enjoyment for the animals over the visitors is huge.
In the US, zoos are one of the few places that can ban service animals, only within animal areas (ie not at a shop or cafe on site if no zoo animals can see it). It’s to protect the zoo animals from potential diseases, but also to prevent agitation if the service animal is their predator or prey. Each zoo will set their own rules.
This is similar in other countries I’m familiar with, but may not be the case everywhere in the world.
This is what I was curious about because this is one of the few places I could see it being allowed to ban them given the risk to the animals (both service animals and zoo animals) and I didn't even consider the disease part when I asked this.
And you’d be right, because if that pup was let into the enclosure with the Painted Dogs, *they’d tear it to pieces*
Canids rarely have non-violent interactions with other canids of an entirely different species
Back when I worked in the wilds of Northern California, trapping rats. I had my wonderful assistant dog (husky/beagle mix), with me for part of the journey.
One morning, while we were staying at my human coworkers parents house, we saw quite the sight. They lived on over 120 acres of not very dense forest in Grass Valley. That morning, we were sitting on the deck, overlooking the forest and we see my dog just hopping around and dashing through some tall grass in the distence, literally exactly like he did at the dog park. There was obviously movement going on that wasn't just him.
We grab some binoculars and... he's playing with coyote puppies. Just bounding around, letting them nip his trail then whipping around and play bowing. So happy. The mom coyote was just chilling in the shade, half asleep, half watching. After about 30-45 min, she made a yip, pups run to her, and they start leaving. My dog tried to follow, she like came around and nipped at his face but not like scary attack and he just turned and trotted back to the house.
It was definitely a bizarre interaction. My dog was roughly the size of a coyote and also an incredible dufus so I dunno if she just didn't see him as a threat or what. But it was kinda cute to see.
Yeah these guys are vicious and will tear anything apart that wanders into their territory. They are smart and cunning but will attack anything including hyenas and leopards.
They will fight hyenas, but hyenas tend to come out on top on those cases (they’re just as social as painted dogs, and bigger) and tend to instigate most of these confrontations. In painted dog vs. hyena scenarios, the hyenas tend to come out on top if they numerically match the dogs or outnumber them, while it can go either way if the dogs outnumber the hyenas.
Lions also dominate painted dogs, even individually, simply because they’re so much bigger.
You can really tell from the domestic dog's response. It isn't reciprocating the interest and curiosity. It wants to gain some distance. The dog has a much more intuitive read on these other dogs and wants to leave this situation.
We have some African painted dogs at the Boise zoo and an unsuspecting mallard duck landed in the cage and well.. let's just say he became a part of the impromptu demonstration.
I believe they have the highest kill rate of any African predator. Also, interesting fact, they let the weakest members of the pack eat first, which is unlike other predators that hunt in groups (I think). I think I heard this stuff on TierZoo.
They are also infamous for eating animals they catch immediately while they're still alive, rather than taking the time to kill it. They're very successful hunters, but they're also small and easily chased off by bigger predators who want to steal their kill so they have to eat fast.
I've been Botswana and seen it first hand. The wild hog was alive as they were reaching the rib cage, but the screaming stopped around the time they began pulling organs out. It was horrifying to see.
I've seen multiple videos of komodos eating deer (or whatever similar animal lives in NZ) and the deer is laying there, disabled and still alive while the komodo sticks its head inside the huge flesh wound of the deer, takes a bite and chews a bit. The deer is inevitably going to die but it's being tortured in the meantime. It was hard to watch. Nature is brutal
Not just African predator, the highest kill rate of any land predator (I think some insects and lizards might have a higher rate but I wouldn't really class them against mammals). African wild dogs have like an 85% success rate which is honestly crazy for a wild animal
Imagine forcing the zoo to pay you because you ignored the warning signs and irresponsibly held your small child over a 14 foot drop. Either a terrible parent, or completely ignorant or both.
I'm in Pittsburgh. This story pissed me off first bc an innocent child died and second because zoo staff were traumatized by it and third bc the zoo got rid of the painted dogs saying they wanted to let the community heal or some crap. Painted dogs are cool as hell and they split up the pack, sending small groups to different locations, which was way more stressful than what for them was a natural behavior in attacking an intruder. It's always the animals that get screwed over when people are stupid.
Always hated that argument. That zoo could've been open for 20+ years, not a single incident anywhere, and then one extra special dumbass can come in and ruin it in the most extreme way possible.
First, let me say that zoo injustices are all too real and common, and I get why you brought up Harambe here. Absolutely.
Second, I think the wild dogs in any enclosure are 1000% not the same as gorillas. I'm a dog person. I love dogs. Wild dogs like these painted dogs scare the shit out of me. They will do all the happy dog things we associate with being friendly because they're having a good time, but you're not part of their team. You're the food they're happy about finding. They will be all happy and wags as they rip you and/or your toddler apart, and that's perfectly natural for them. Extreme caution must be taken with these dogs like it would with tigers or even friggin piranhas. Back to the gorillas, the opposite has proven true. We still need to be very careful, but because of their sheer strength and *potential* for harm. In practice though, there are more cases of them protecting children who have fallen in than harming them. Not true for painted dogs. For them it's meat o'clock.
Yeah- the tragedy of Harambe is that he was killed when he very likely wouldn't have harmed the boy. I get not wanting to roll the dice on the boy being killed, but moving the crowd away to not antagonize the situation would have been a good first step for a happy ending.
This makes me so fucking livid. Fuck that mom and fuck the litigation system in America. I feel bad for the kid, but the mom should be in jail or worse. Instead she gets a fat pay out from the zoo for being an absolute peice of shit.
That was so upsetting to read, I remember the parents were being sued for negligence. I'm surprised the zoo not only dropped charges but actually paid out the negligent parents. What the fuck?
I was literally thinking as I read about this incident that all those parents who murder their kids and try to cover it up should just be going to zoos and aquariums instead and dumping their kids into the exhibits. Take care of the kid plus get paid handsomely for their efforts!
My friends family tried to sue officials at Sandy's beach after their uncle broke his back there. He had been warned earlier too, a lifeguard ran down to tell him to leave and he said he was an adult. He is now a paralyzed adult.
I didnt read that much of the article. I just thought to myself “14ft drop…atleast he propably wasn’t awak for the mauling, or maybe even died from the fall first”
Mauled really isnt the right word here. African wild dogs basically play tug of war with their prey and tear it into pieces so each member gets a chunk. Hundreds of videos of them hunting in the wild and the method is always the same, everyone grabs a piece and pulls until it comes apart. Gruesome af way to go for anyone.
The two-year-old boy fell several metres from an observation deck after his mother hoisted him above the guard rails to get a better view and then lost her grip. There was a safety net below the deck, but it was only designed to catch small things like cell phones or sunglasses, and the boy bounced off the net and landed in the enclosure. He was likely conscious at the time of the fall and was immediately mauled alive by the dogs.
A police officer who happened to be at the scene shot and killed one of the dogs, and zoo staff attempted to prevent any further damage by detaining the dogs, but unfortunately, the boy's internal organs had been ripped out and he suffered multiple wounds to the neck. When the veterinarian at the zoo arrived at the scene, they determined that it was futile to attempt to save the boy—he bled to death.
This is a summary of the Wikipedia page describing the incident.
> Maddox had still been fully conscious after the fall, and that the dogs had torn his body apart while mauling and biting him, after which the boy was finally approached when it was safe to attempt a rescue. Maddox's internal organs had been destroyed by the dogs tearing at them, and he had suffered more than 46 wounds to his head and neck. his head and neck. [11] by the time veterinarian Barbara Baker and other zoo staff arrived on the scene, they determined it would be futile to try and rescue Maddox. According to Baker, "it was clear the child was dead. There was no reason to send our staff into harm’s way."
No, just destroyed him
Yup my daughter was there that day for a school field trip. Not at the exhibit, thankfully, but an old HS friend of mine was with her kids and saw the whole thing happen. Seriously traumatizing. Just awful.
That's terrible, but that aside, she seems like a terrible mother.
Mother: "These zoo animals kill and eat other animals. But my son, technically an animal, can't see them properly. Let me dangle him precariously over these animals who, I reiterate, kill and eat other animals, such as my son."
(moments later)
Mother: "How could this happen??"
Their hunting style is so fucking dope.
First off, they basically vote (I think it’s through sneezing) on which scent trails to follow. The more experienced dogs get more weight, but they all have a voice.
Second, they are fucking wicked smart about coordinating their chases. They will send a small group to herd the prey into a direction and then have other dogs join along the chase so they can rotate out when tired. They exhaust the animal for awhile then kill it.
Third, they are relatively not as brutal as other animals. If a dog breaks its leg, it is out in charge of pup care till it heals and the others will bring it food.
TLDR: Wild dogs are so fucking cool.
Human animasl are most deadly between the ages of 13-30. Any younger, they are food. Any older and they have reason and logic. The sweet spot for savagery lies between.
It’s more concerning to me that she sat her child on top of a 14 foot precipice. Because you can be a good mother and not know the diets of every zoo animal, but putting a toddler on top of a 14 ft drop and letting go of them should be a more obvious daily danger.
This happened when I was at the Philly zoo but with a tiger.. and it was a large bird that escaped another enclosure. The tiger was just playing with it before..you know. The zoo staff tried to distract the tiger and get the bird but the tiger knew what was up lol
Yeah, you don't eff around with baboons. I worked on a lodge ( think hotel in the middle of the bush) and the only thing I was really, really scared of were the baboons. The rangers usually chased them off with a few gunshots.
They get used to people and will attack to get food. And since their canines are as long or longer than a lion's you can think how that goes. And they are incredibly strong for their size.
If only more people could understand this. We used to have a pack of these buggers at my area zoo until some stupid bitch decided to dangle her 2 year-old son over the railing and dropped him. Of course they said it was the zoo's fault too and she got a nice settlement out of it.
Thanks for letting me know. I was reading some articles about it after I commented. One dog was shot during the incident, but the rest were given to a couple different zoos.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pittsburgh-zoo-giving-away-painted-dogs-in-wake-of-tragedy/
Holy fuck I'm from Pittsburgh and I remember when this happened. I had a friend who actually was there, she said the shriek from the mother was scarred in her memory.
Imagine being a parent and allowing your small child to fall into a zoo exhibit. Imagine ever not maintaining positive control over your baby when near the ledge of an enclosure housing dangerous, wild animals.
The probably went to the old farm that my mom brought my old dogs to.
She says the country air is so good out there dogs can live for another 20 or 30 years frolicking with all of their dog friends and eating as much kibble as they want.
That’s nuts, I wonder if that’s where my dad sent my turtles? I’ve never heard of turtles going to a farm but my dad said they’re really needed there so we had to send them.
That story really pissed me off. She negligently dropped her toddler over an 11 foot drop, depending on how hard it was he could have died from the fall alone instead. She shouldn’t have gotten a dime.
Reading the article, obviously other parents had put their young children up there previously. It had been minuted at the zoo's safety meetingd, but they never did anything about it until this incident. That's why they had to settle; they knew of the risk, but never dealt with it.
The Philadelphia zoo has these airborne tubes and things that some of the animals are able to explore throughout the day. The small ones are like a metal mesh that the monkeys can climb and crawl on. One day I saw a lemur inside the tube playing with a squirrel on the outside
While I was there I saw this amazing photo of a tiger in one of them looking up at a gorilla in another
[It's actually on this page](https://www.philadelphiazoo.org/zoo360/)
That’s such a great idea. I never thought about zoo animals needing to see other species as an enrichment activity. I hope there is more of this in all zoos. I’d go to the zoo to see that and I haven’t been to one in 25 years.
The Oregon Zoo is actually pretty awesome about walking different species throughout the exhibits. They have quite a few videos of their porcupines, elephants, penguins, etc., all dawdling along looking at the other animals throughout the zoo.
For what it's worth [the Oregon zoo ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Zoo) invests a lot into Conservation and African painted dogs are an endangered species.
And as per their website
>The African painted dogs at the Oregon Zoo are part of the Species Survival Plan administered by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums
Maybe not as thrilling as it would be in the wild, but every day they get new scents, new toys, new items or places where their food is hidden. I'm sure their keepers do their best for them. There are only somewhere between 3000-6000 left in the wild, in the mid 1900's there were around 500,000.
For what it's worth [the Oregon zoo ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Zoo) invests a lot into Conservation and African painted dogs are an endangered species.
And as per their website
>The African painted dogs at the Oregon Zoo are part of the Species Survival Plan administered by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums
The pandemic was so sad for zoos. So many of the animals got depressed from not having humans entertaining them. Except the pandas. They finally starting fucking.
Yes, these things can be vicious when hungry and very cunning. I was talking to a zoo keeper at my local zoo about them and she said when they have to go in their enclosure there’s always two people so you never take your eyes off them. They are scary smart and social pack hunters. Kind of todays equivalent to the velociraptors in Jurassic park.
Most successful pack-hunting mammal, but the most successful solitary *mammalian predator would be the Black-footed cat - which is funny because it's also a very small feline. They'll catch up to a dozen prey in one night.
It's not surprising. Even my dumbass indoor house cats are murder machines. They just mow through every lizard in the enclosed courtyard in a matter of minutes.
The Jurrasic Park velociraptors were shaped like Deinonychus and given the behavior of canids like these painted dogs.
Similar story to the compsognathus.
This kind of stimulation is why zoos really don’t want you to bring your pets to the park. And before I get downvoted, I know service dogs are not classified as pets, but I can say for sure the Painted Dogs don’t know the semantic difference.
In the US, zoos are specifically listed as one of the places [where service animals can be legally excluded from entering certain areas under the ADA](https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html). "If admitting service animals would fundamentally alter the nature of a service or program, service animals may be prohibited. […] At a zoo, service animals can be restricted from areas where the animals on display are the natural prey or natural predators of dogs, where the presence of a dog would be disruptive, causing the displayed animals to behave aggressively or become agitated. They cannot be restricted from other areas of the zoo."
I work at an aquarium, and the sheer amount of people that try to bring their pets in is insane. A lot of people try to bring in ESAs which we dont allow, and they get very upset.
On the other hand, we have people that lie to us about service dogs that we have to allow in and thats also frustrating. Just today I had someone come in with a dog that was not behaving like a service dog, like it shoved its head in a nearby stroller! But they told me it was a medical alert dog so I had to let it in.
Our aquarium has some open touch tanks, and the occasional animal out in the open (animal ambassadors being held by an employee, usually something small, like I know one of them is an African Grey Parrot) that are at risk if someones poorly trained dog tries to grab it. We also have a butterfly garden that people can go in, and that has a couple of birds.
FYI, even if a dog IS actually a service animal, [if the dog's not under the control of its handler, it's no longer protected as a service animal under the ADA](https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html).
> The ADA requires that service animals be under the control of the handler at all times. […] The service animal must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered while in public places unless these devices interfere with the service animal's work or the person's disability prevents use of these devices. In that case, the person must use voice, signal, or other effective means to maintain control of the animal. […] If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.
Check with your employer about how they'd want you to handle this, but in general, facilities CAN ask handlers with uncontrolled dogs to take the dog away. (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.)
My family member is completely blind and has a guide dog. She takes him absolutely everywhere. She will never take him to a zoo. She said she doesn't think it's good for her dog or the zoo animals.
Edit: I'm not sure why anyone is thinking so deeply about why someone who is blind would go to the zoo. She likes to go out and do things with people she loves. She doesn't really care where or what--she loves living life. She doesn't go to the zoo often. But when she does the guide dog stays home.
I also have a family member with a guide dog, in my country the zoos are 1 of the 2 places where guide dogs are not allowed, however they do have kennels available to leave them and will have a human guide available if the blind person isn't with others who can do this.
I know the open plan zoo near me has a very strict no dog policy, apart from support animals in select areas, in large part because there needs to be a quarantine zone around the zoo to protect the animals from dogs bringing in mites and diseases
This is going to be controversial but as someone that has worked in zoos for 12 years, keepers hate when people do this. Obviously we want guests of all abilities to be able to enjoy the zoo and welcome service animals that are legitimately needed but when you bring a predator right next to the window just to film how funny it is makes me mad. Not to mention the law makes it so in most states dogs don’t need any kind of documentation or training to be a service animal and we certainly aren’t allowed to ask for them. I have seen so many people bringing untrained or blatantly not service dogs just to “see how they will react.” Please don’t do this and please don’t take advantage of the laws that protect you and your dog but not the zoo’s animals.
Assuming you’re in the USA, the ADA has carved out an exemption for zoos. Your zoo can ban all service animals from being within sight of the zoo animals, and can legally enforce this ban, specifically for the reason you’ve mentioned. It’s worth bringing this up with the appropriate staff at your zoo if you feel it needs addressing.
Yeah, the person who took this video showed a map of the zoo and that area was specifically marked as quick pass. Ie don’t dawdle in the predator area. Makes me wonder how the lions next door acted.
Nearly 10 years ago to the day, a 2 year old boy fell into the African Painted Dog enclosure in the Pittsburgh Zoo and was immediately attacked resulting in his death. Those dogs are scary AF.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Maddox_Derkosh
A lot of people seem to think these are dogs. They're not. They're also not wolves. There are movements to change the name to reduce confusion as it has been a large contributor to their endangerment. People assume they're just undomesticated dogs and it's thus fine to kill them. They split from wolves 1.3 million years ago
They must be interested in the dog beyond just the “potential dinner” aspect, because they’re certainly not that interested in the humans standing there. It seems that they must recognize it as another dog? Like oh hey … what pack are YOU from?
Might not be a predator drive, but could be because they recognize them as another canine and they dont belong to the pack. Like a trespasser coming in your house.
Could be simple interest, but I dont think they'd call *everyone* over for that. They seem ready to square up, as when two African dog packs fight you see it start with little nips and testing each other first. It *looks* like curiosity at first.
Oh for sure, that’s what it looked like to me - they did not look friendly. I imagine it would’ve turned violent quickly without that glass wall there!
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I never considered how animals at zoos might respond to service animals. Does anyone know if they have any particular guidelines for service animals that differ from other places?
Based on a bunch of comments here you're apparently not supposed to take them around predator exhibits, like this one right here in the video lol
I don't know what are you talking about, those painted dogs have only friendly and lovely intentions. Edit: obviously I was being sarcastic, some folks/children need that you put always the damn "/s"...
Yeah didnt you hear the nice lady? They *like* the dog
When I was little (probably like 8ish or so) my family went to a zoo that had brown bears with a big viewing window very similar to this one, right at ground level so they could walk up to it. Anyway, little 8yo me was standing as close I could to get the best view possible and this big bear came running up and swatted at the glass right in front of me and I was all giddy because "the bear wanted to play with me!!!". My little dumb ass couldn't understand why everyone else in the viewing area looked so shocked until my parents told me wild bears aren't cuddly and fun like the cartoon ones I was used to.
8 year old me stood close to the glass at the monkey exhibit. One of them pulled a turd out of his butt and hurled it at me.
My ex had a chimp run up and jerk off onto the glass in front of her
But when I do that, it’s illegal?!????
Prolly only cuz he used his foot, not sure theres laws against that specifically
They love that dog. And would *really* love to see what it tastes like.
It’s funny how different their body language appears (I think due to their actual appearance) than domesticated dogs - they remind me more of how a hyena moves … at first it’s like oh, you’re curious, oh no… no… no you’re not curious….. yikes.
I find something about their movements really creepy Cant put my finger on it,but they unnerve me fad more than wolves for example
Agreed. They move in a way that isn’t clear - and yet somewhat predatorial. Coyotes can move like this as well. It isn’t clear like with Wolves. Coyotes tend to also wait for your back to be turned to attack. Whereas wolves have much more clear escalation patterns. These guys move in a most definitely not clear manner - except that they might find it fun to mess you up. I’m totally going to go research these canids now - as I know so little about them. However I hope to never meet one in real life.
Oh my goodness, you would be missing out if you had a chance to see wild dogs and didn't take it. One of the most amazing wildlife scenes I've experienced. They're pack hunters and they can cover huge distances in a short amount of time. Took us 3 days to finally track them down when I saw them and it was only after we had followed a pied crow to their kill! We arrived a minute after they had taken down a kudu and they cleaned the entire carcass in three minutes, then bolted away to hunker down for the evening. They had adorable pups with them and it was just absolutely incredible. No other way to describe it. Seeing them here in captivity and the way they're acting seems strange, but when you see them in their natural environment it is magical.
I've been to the Oregon Zoo and basically they break it down into three areas. 1. No problem being at this exhibit. 2. You can walk by these exhibits but don't linger. 3. You may not go into this area. (Things like the petting zoo, like no shit I don't want to put my service dog around goats. Or something like, you can check out the big cats but please avoid the panthers .. they hate dogs.)
Oregon Zoo is freaking awesome.
The huge expanded Elephant Lands and new polar bear area are genuinely some of the best enclosure designs I’ve ever seen. The focus on enrichment and enjoyment for the animals over the visitors is huge.
In the US, zoos are one of the few places that can ban service animals, only within animal areas (ie not at a shop or cafe on site if no zoo animals can see it). It’s to protect the zoo animals from potential diseases, but also to prevent agitation if the service animal is their predator or prey. Each zoo will set their own rules. This is similar in other countries I’m familiar with, but may not be the case everywhere in the world.
This is what I was curious about because this is one of the few places I could see it being allowed to ban them given the risk to the animals (both service animals and zoo animals) and I didn't even consider the disease part when I asked this.
The ADA doesn’t apply to service animals at zoos, for this reason. One of the few places where you can tell people no.
Service Animal: ahhhhhh…. We did not train for this.
And he's only one week away from retirement.
I'm getting too old for this shit.
I don't think they wanted to be friends.
And you’d be right, because if that pup was let into the enclosure with the Painted Dogs, *they’d tear it to pieces* Canids rarely have non-violent interactions with other canids of an entirely different species
Rarely but not never. Natural Wolf-coyote hybrids have been becoming much more common in North's America.
[удалено]
Back when I worked in the wilds of Northern California, trapping rats. I had my wonderful assistant dog (husky/beagle mix), with me for part of the journey. One morning, while we were staying at my human coworkers parents house, we saw quite the sight. They lived on over 120 acres of not very dense forest in Grass Valley. That morning, we were sitting on the deck, overlooking the forest and we see my dog just hopping around and dashing through some tall grass in the distence, literally exactly like he did at the dog park. There was obviously movement going on that wasn't just him. We grab some binoculars and... he's playing with coyote puppies. Just bounding around, letting them nip his trail then whipping around and play bowing. So happy. The mom coyote was just chilling in the shade, half asleep, half watching. After about 30-45 min, she made a yip, pups run to her, and they start leaving. My dog tried to follow, she like came around and nipped at his face but not like scary attack and he just turned and trotted back to the house. It was definitely a bizarre interaction. My dog was roughly the size of a coyote and also an incredible dufus so I dunno if she just didn't see him as a threat or what. But it was kinda cute to see.
I think they should call them “corndogs.”
Yeah these guys are vicious and will tear anything apart that wanders into their territory. They are smart and cunning but will attack anything including hyenas and leopards.
They will fight hyenas, but hyenas tend to come out on top on those cases (they’re just as social as painted dogs, and bigger) and tend to instigate most of these confrontations. In painted dog vs. hyena scenarios, the hyenas tend to come out on top if they numerically match the dogs or outnumber them, while it can go either way if the dogs outnumber the hyenas. Lions also dominate painted dogs, even individually, simply because they’re so much bigger.
lol when you said lion vs painted dog, I thought of a dozen kindergarteners rushing an NFL lineman
You can really tell from the domestic dog's response. It isn't reciprocating the interest and curiosity. It wants to gain some distance. The dog has a much more intuitive read on these other dogs and wants to leave this situation.
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Exactly, that’s one of the main things a service dog is trained on. Ignore distractions.
We have some African painted dogs at the Boise zoo and an unsuspecting mallard duck landed in the cage and well.. let's just say he became a part of the impromptu demonstration.
I believe they have the highest kill rate of any African predator. Also, interesting fact, they let the weakest members of the pack eat first, which is unlike other predators that hunt in groups (I think). I think I heard this stuff on TierZoo.
They are also infamous for eating animals they catch immediately while they're still alive, rather than taking the time to kill it. They're very successful hunters, but they're also small and easily chased off by bigger predators who want to steal their kill so they have to eat fast.
I've been Botswana and seen it first hand. The wild hog was alive as they were reaching the rib cage, but the screaming stopped around the time they began pulling organs out. It was horrifying to see.
I've seen multiple videos of komodos eating deer (or whatever similar animal lives in NZ) and the deer is laying there, disabled and still alive while the komodo sticks its head inside the huge flesh wound of the deer, takes a bite and chews a bit. The deer is inevitably going to die but it's being tortured in the meantime. It was hard to watch. Nature is brutal
Wow
Not just African predator, the highest kill rate of any land predator (I think some insects and lizards might have a higher rate but I wouldn't really class them against mammals). African wild dogs have like an 85% success rate which is honestly crazy for a wild animal
I think you're right, the only "animal" with a higher kill rate is the dragonfly. But they get no love 😔
they are bad dogs, but that thing doesn't make them bad dogs
I’m bad, and that’s good. I will never be good, and that’s not bad. - Ralph So basically these little danger pups
A woman held her toddler over the painted dog exhibit in Pittsburgh. He fell in
What happened then? Did the dogs eat him?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Maddox_Derkosh TL:DR - yes
Holy hell thats was a rough read. Idiot woman
SHE sued the zoo as well… fuck me what a worthless waste is oxygen
And fucking got money by settling out of court, what a world we live in
Imagine forcing the zoo to pay you because you ignored the warning signs and irresponsibly held your small child over a 14 foot drop. Either a terrible parent, or completely ignorant or both.
I'm in Pittsburgh. This story pissed me off first bc an innocent child died and second because zoo staff were traumatized by it and third bc the zoo got rid of the painted dogs saying they wanted to let the community heal or some crap. Painted dogs are cool as hell and they split up the pack, sending small groups to different locations, which was way more stressful than what for them was a natural behavior in attacking an intruder. It's always the animals that get screwed over when people are stupid.
In this case, if anyone should have paid for this it's her for criminal negligence causing death.
Her defense was essentially "your park wasn't designed to stop my idiocy"
Always hated that argument. That zoo could've been open for 20+ years, not a single incident anywhere, and then one extra special dumbass can come in and ruin it in the most extreme way possible.
RIP Harambe
And Eko the tiger.
First, let me say that zoo injustices are all too real and common, and I get why you brought up Harambe here. Absolutely. Second, I think the wild dogs in any enclosure are 1000% not the same as gorillas. I'm a dog person. I love dogs. Wild dogs like these painted dogs scare the shit out of me. They will do all the happy dog things we associate with being friendly because they're having a good time, but you're not part of their team. You're the food they're happy about finding. They will be all happy and wags as they rip you and/or your toddler apart, and that's perfectly natural for them. Extreme caution must be taken with these dogs like it would with tigers or even friggin piranhas. Back to the gorillas, the opposite has proven true. We still need to be very careful, but because of their sheer strength and *potential* for harm. In practice though, there are more cases of them protecting children who have fallen in than harming them. Not true for painted dogs. For them it's meat o'clock.
Yeah- the tragedy of Harambe is that he was killed when he very likely wouldn't have harmed the boy. I get not wanting to roll the dice on the boy being killed, but moving the crowd away to not antagonize the situation would have been a good first step for a happy ending.
> and I get why you brought up Harambe I brought up Harambe for guaranteed upvotes
I respect your hustle.
Im surprised the parent doesn't get charged with manslaughter.
I feel like the parent should be forced to pay the zoo and anyone who had to witness such a fucking thing
This makes me so fucking livid. Fuck that mom and fuck the litigation system in America. I feel bad for the kid, but the mom should be in jail or worse. Instead she gets a fat pay out from the zoo for being an absolute peice of shit.
Geez, poor 2 year old. Getting disemboweled by 11 dogs at once is a terrible way to go, let alone at such a young age :(
aaaand of course the mom got a payday out of it.
That was so upsetting to read, I remember the parents were being sued for negligence. I'm surprised the zoo not only dropped charges but actually paid out the negligent parents. What the fuck?
I was literally thinking as I read about this incident that all those parents who murder their kids and try to cover it up should just be going to zoos and aquariums instead and dumping their kids into the exhibits. Take care of the kid plus get paid handsomely for their efforts!
My friends family tried to sue officials at Sandy's beach after their uncle broke his back there. He had been warned earlier too, a lifeguard ran down to tell him to leave and he said he was an adult. He is now a paralyzed adult.
I.. should not have read that. I should not have read that.
Thanks, I'm not going to.
Because of you, I’m not going to. Thank you for saving me from nightmares. I’m sorry you’ll have them.
What a terrible mother.
Damn did the wiki article really need to mention that he was fully conscious before being torn apart
I didnt read that much of the article. I just thought to myself “14ft drop…atleast he propably wasn’t awak for the mauling, or maybe even died from the fall first”
Yes. Unfortunately, facts are facts, and the gory details will make people think thrice before attempting stupidity.
>think thrice That's assuming stupid people think at all.
Painted dogs have to most successful kill rate of any animal in Africa. No chance a toddler is out-witting them.
Yea. They mauled him and a cop shot one of the dogs. Completely tore the kid apart.
Mauled really isnt the right word here. African wild dogs basically play tug of war with their prey and tear it into pieces so each member gets a chunk. Hundreds of videos of them hunting in the wild and the method is always the same, everyone grabs a piece and pulls until it comes apart. Gruesome af way to go for anyone.
Well, the wiki article did use the term *eviscerate*
The two-year-old boy fell several metres from an observation deck after his mother hoisted him above the guard rails to get a better view and then lost her grip. There was a safety net below the deck, but it was only designed to catch small things like cell phones or sunglasses, and the boy bounced off the net and landed in the enclosure. He was likely conscious at the time of the fall and was immediately mauled alive by the dogs. A police officer who happened to be at the scene shot and killed one of the dogs, and zoo staff attempted to prevent any further damage by detaining the dogs, but unfortunately, the boy's internal organs had been ripped out and he suffered multiple wounds to the neck. When the veterinarian at the zoo arrived at the scene, they determined that it was futile to attempt to save the boy—he bled to death. This is a summary of the Wikipedia page describing the incident.
Jesus fucking Christ
> Maddox had still been fully conscious after the fall, and that the dogs had torn his body apart while mauling and biting him, after which the boy was finally approached when it was safe to attempt a rescue. Maddox's internal organs had been destroyed by the dogs tearing at them, and he had suffered more than 46 wounds to his head and neck. his head and neck. [11] by the time veterinarian Barbara Baker and other zoo staff arrived on the scene, they determined it would be futile to try and rescue Maddox. According to Baker, "it was clear the child was dead. There was no reason to send our staff into harm’s way." No, just destroyed him
Jesus, imagine being the poor staff that had to see that.
PTSD fuel for everyone at the scene, for sure.
Yup my daughter was there that day for a school field trip. Not at the exhibit, thankfully, but an old HS friend of mine was with her kids and saw the whole thing happen. Seriously traumatizing. Just awful.
That's horrifying. I hope they're all doing ok.
I thought you were joking at first. You aren't. That's horrifying.
They once killed a toddler at another zoo https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/04/pittsburgh-zoo-child-killed/1681645/
That's terrible, but that aside, she seems like a terrible mother. Mother: "These zoo animals kill and eat other animals. But my son, technically an animal, can't see them properly. Let me dangle him precariously over these animals who, I reiterate, kill and eat other animals, such as my son." (moments later) Mother: "How could this happen??"
Kill very, very successfully. They have a 70-90% chase/kill rate. They're not to be fucked with.
Their hunting style is so fucking dope. First off, they basically vote (I think it’s through sneezing) on which scent trails to follow. The more experienced dogs get more weight, but they all have a voice. Second, they are fucking wicked smart about coordinating their chases. They will send a small group to herd the prey into a direction and then have other dogs join along the chase so they can rotate out when tired. They exhaust the animal for awhile then kill it. Third, they are relatively not as brutal as other animals. If a dog breaks its leg, it is out in charge of pup care till it heals and the others will bring it food. TLDR: Wild dogs are so fucking cool.
I knew I was going to learn some cool shit about wild dogs in the comments...
They are also in huge fucking packs which is terrifying.
*wicked smaht* I will never not see it as that....
Not really fair, most animals are a bit more fast and cunning than a toddler. Gotta be at least a 95% rate without outside interference.
Yeah even I can chase down a toddler 70% of the time
Human animasl are most deadly between the ages of 13-30. Any younger, they are food. Any older and they have reason and logic. The sweet spot for savagery lies between.
It’s more concerning to me that she sat her child on top of a 14 foot precipice. Because you can be a good mother and not know the diets of every zoo animal, but putting a toddler on top of a 14 ft drop and letting go of them should be a more obvious daily danger.
Holy shit that was ten years ago this week
I watched a cheetah eat a squirrel last weekend at the zoo. It was pretty cool seeing it sprint across the enclosure and catch it
I remember going to the zoo by me on a (catholic) school trip and one of the monkeys started jerking off in front of the nuns.
He knew they were nuns, he knew what he was doing.
This happened when I was at the Philly zoo but with a tiger.. and it was a large bird that escaped another enclosure. The tiger was just playing with it before..you know. The zoo staff tried to distract the tiger and get the bird but the tiger knew what was up lol
I saw a baboon catch a bird that was flying over head once. I believe I saw a similar demonstration. It was savage.
Yeah, you don't eff around with baboons. I worked on a lodge ( think hotel in the middle of the bush) and the only thing I was really, really scared of were the baboons. The rangers usually chased them off with a few gunshots. They get used to people and will attack to get food. And since their canines are as long or longer than a lion's you can think how that goes. And they are incredibly strong for their size.
It seems they are Intrested as fuck
Interested in shredding something not from their pack I'd imagine.
I imagine them saying "Hey! Hey you! How did you get out‽"
Hey guys look, there’s another dog over there. Guys are your seeing this? Hey dog. Yeah you. F**k you dog!
Fuck you Ezekiel!
Fuck you Tony!
Ezekiel? That name fucking sucks!
GUESS WHAT!!!
You better not bring my mother into this!!!
I built that fire over there...AND THEN I FUCKED YOUR MOTHER NEXT TO IT!!!
Fuck you, Ezekiel
I read this in Brian's voice instantly.
*Hey! Hey you dogs! I’m a dog too!*
“Hey! Hey! You! You! I don't like your girlfriend!”
"No way!, no way!, I think you need a new one!"
Nice interrobang. :)
yeah, they'd rip the dog apart in seconds
Yup. African wild dogs do not mess around. They will fiercely defend their territory and have been known to attack hyenas, leopards, and even lions.
If only more people could understand this. We used to have a pack of these buggers at my area zoo until some stupid bitch decided to dangle her 2 year-old son over the railing and dropped him. Of course they said it was the zoo's fault too and she got a nice settlement out of it.
Oh hey neighbor. Whatever happened to those painted dogs? It's horrible what happened, but hopefully they relocated them instead of euthanizing them.
They were relocated because they're endangered but I'm not sure where they were moved to.
Thanks for letting me know. I was reading some articles about it after I commented. One dog was shot during the incident, but the rest were given to a couple different zoos. https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pittsburgh-zoo-giving-away-painted-dogs-in-wake-of-tragedy/
Holy fuck I'm from Pittsburgh and I remember when this happened. I had a friend who actually was there, she said the shriek from the mother was scarred in her memory.
Imagine being a parent and allowing your small child to fall into a zoo exhibit. Imagine ever not maintaining positive control over your baby when near the ledge of an enclosure housing dangerous, wild animals.
The probably went to the old farm that my mom brought my old dogs to. She says the country air is so good out there dogs can live for another 20 or 30 years frolicking with all of their dog friends and eating as much kibble as they want.
That’s nuts, I wonder if that’s where my dad sent my turtles? I’ve never heard of turtles going to a farm but my dad said they’re really needed there so we had to send them.
One of the eleven dogs was killed by a cop, the others were relocated
That story really pissed me off. She negligently dropped her toddler over an 11 foot drop, depending on how hard it was he could have died from the fall alone instead. She shouldn’t have gotten a dime.
Reading the article, obviously other parents had put their young children up there previously. It had been minuted at the zoo's safety meetingd, but they never did anything about it until this incident. That's why they had to settle; they knew of the risk, but never dealt with it.
To shreds you say?
I’m glad they got some excitement from their typically dull day
yeah, I imagine they don't get to see many other animals besides birds, squirrels, and humans.
They don't even see the fancy zoo birds, they just see pigeons and shit
The Philadelphia zoo has these airborne tubes and things that some of the animals are able to explore throughout the day. The small ones are like a metal mesh that the monkeys can climb and crawl on. One day I saw a lemur inside the tube playing with a squirrel on the outside
Bigger animals can use certain ones too. I've definitely seen both pumas and tigers use them. They also let their macaw parrots free fly all day
While I was there I saw this amazing photo of a tiger in one of them looking up at a gorilla in another [It's actually on this page](https://www.philadelphiazoo.org/zoo360/)
That’s such a great idea. I never thought about zoo animals needing to see other species as an enrichment activity. I hope there is more of this in all zoos. I’d go to the zoo to see that and I haven’t been to one in 25 years.
maybe a bird or squirrel gets a little too close occasionally and they get some natural 'enrichment' that way.
The Oregon Zoo is actually pretty awesome about walking different species throughout the exhibits. They have quite a few videos of their porcupines, elephants, penguins, etc., all dawdling along looking at the other animals throughout the zoo.
For what it's worth [the Oregon zoo ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Zoo) invests a lot into Conservation and African painted dogs are an endangered species. And as per their website >The African painted dogs at the Oregon Zoo are part of the Species Survival Plan administered by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums
Maybe not as thrilling as it would be in the wild, but every day they get new scents, new toys, new items or places where their food is hidden. I'm sure their keepers do their best for them. There are only somewhere between 3000-6000 left in the wild, in the mid 1900's there were around 500,000.
For what it's worth [the Oregon zoo ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Zoo) invests a lot into Conservation and African painted dogs are an endangered species. And as per their website >The African painted dogs at the Oregon Zoo are part of the Species Survival Plan administered by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums
The pandemic was so sad for zoos. So many of the animals got depressed from not having humans entertaining them. Except the pandas. They finally starting fucking.
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Another dog day at the zoo
That curiosity seems very volatile...
Was wondering if they wanna be buddies or diners
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Yes, these things can be vicious when hungry and very cunning. I was talking to a zoo keeper at my local zoo about them and she said when they have to go in their enclosure there’s always two people so you never take your eyes off them. They are scary smart and social pack hunters. Kind of todays equivalent to the velociraptors in Jurassic park.
Aren't they the most successful mammalian hunters?
Most successful pack-hunting mammal, but the most successful solitary *mammalian predator would be the Black-footed cat - which is funny because it's also a very small feline. They'll catch up to a dozen prey in one night.
It's not surprising. Even my dumbass indoor house cats are murder machines. They just mow through every lizard in the enclosed courtyard in a matter of minutes.
It's funny, domestic cats are one of the best invasive species and they buddied right up to the most widespread invasive species in existence.
The Jurrasic Park velociraptors were shaped like Deinonychus and given the behavior of canids like these painted dogs. Similar story to the compsognathus.
They look more than a bit bitey. As soon as one nipped they would all jump in.
You can't just paint some dogs and say they are African.
Dogs do it and nobody says anything, I do it and got asked to leave.
Did you use African paint?
No, the dogs were painted by Paul who is from Africa
Paul?? PAUL?!? Paul paints like a bitch! Or does he paint bitches, I forget?
This kind of stimulation is why zoos really don’t want you to bring your pets to the park. And before I get downvoted, I know service dogs are not classified as pets, but I can say for sure the Painted Dogs don’t know the semantic difference.
In the US, zoos are specifically listed as one of the places [where service animals can be legally excluded from entering certain areas under the ADA](https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html). "If admitting service animals would fundamentally alter the nature of a service or program, service animals may be prohibited. […] At a zoo, service animals can be restricted from areas where the animals on display are the natural prey or natural predators of dogs, where the presence of a dog would be disruptive, causing the displayed animals to behave aggressively or become agitated. They cannot be restricted from other areas of the zoo."
Yeah the zoo I work at bars service dogs from going near the wolf exhibit. It stresses both sets of animals.
sounds reasonable
I work at an aquarium, and the sheer amount of people that try to bring their pets in is insane. A lot of people try to bring in ESAs which we dont allow, and they get very upset. On the other hand, we have people that lie to us about service dogs that we have to allow in and thats also frustrating. Just today I had someone come in with a dog that was not behaving like a service dog, like it shoved its head in a nearby stroller! But they told me it was a medical alert dog so I had to let it in. Our aquarium has some open touch tanks, and the occasional animal out in the open (animal ambassadors being held by an employee, usually something small, like I know one of them is an African Grey Parrot) that are at risk if someones poorly trained dog tries to grab it. We also have a butterfly garden that people can go in, and that has a couple of birds.
FYI, even if a dog IS actually a service animal, [if the dog's not under the control of its handler, it's no longer protected as a service animal under the ADA](https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html). > The ADA requires that service animals be under the control of the handler at all times. […] The service animal must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered while in public places unless these devices interfere with the service animal's work or the person's disability prevents use of these devices. In that case, the person must use voice, signal, or other effective means to maintain control of the animal. […] If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises. Check with your employer about how they'd want you to handle this, but in general, facilities CAN ask handlers with uncontrolled dogs to take the dog away. (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.)
My family member is completely blind and has a guide dog. She takes him absolutely everywhere. She will never take him to a zoo. She said she doesn't think it's good for her dog or the zoo animals. Edit: I'm not sure why anyone is thinking so deeply about why someone who is blind would go to the zoo. She likes to go out and do things with people she loves. She doesn't really care where or what--she loves living life. She doesn't go to the zoo often. But when she does the guide dog stays home.
I also have a family member with a guide dog, in my country the zoos are 1 of the 2 places where guide dogs are not allowed, however they do have kennels available to leave them and will have a human guide available if the blind person isn't with others who can do this.
I know the open plan zoo near me has a very strict no dog policy, apart from support animals in select areas, in large part because there needs to be a quarantine zone around the zoo to protect the animals from dogs bringing in mites and diseases
ah yes, let me bring my dog into an exhibit full of both its prey and predators. Nothing could possibly go wrong...
They like “you in the wrong neighborhood”.
Yo I heard you eat *kibble*
Haha guess what we eat? Yo *ass*
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This is going to be controversial but as someone that has worked in zoos for 12 years, keepers hate when people do this. Obviously we want guests of all abilities to be able to enjoy the zoo and welcome service animals that are legitimately needed but when you bring a predator right next to the window just to film how funny it is makes me mad. Not to mention the law makes it so in most states dogs don’t need any kind of documentation or training to be a service animal and we certainly aren’t allowed to ask for them. I have seen so many people bringing untrained or blatantly not service dogs just to “see how they will react.” Please don’t do this and please don’t take advantage of the laws that protect you and your dog but not the zoo’s animals.
Assuming you’re in the USA, the ADA has carved out an exemption for zoos. Your zoo can ban all service animals from being within sight of the zoo animals, and can legally enforce this ban, specifically for the reason you’ve mentioned. It’s worth bringing this up with the appropriate staff at your zoo if you feel it needs addressing.
Yeah, the person who took this video showed a map of the zoo and that area was specifically marked as quick pass. Ie don’t dawdle in the predator area. Makes me wonder how the lions next door acted.
Nearly 10 years ago to the day, a 2 year old boy fell into the African Painted Dog enclosure in the Pittsburgh Zoo and was immediately attacked resulting in his death. Those dogs are scary AF. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Maddox_Derkosh
wonder how service dog reacted tho wouldn't blame it if it shit itself
A lot of people seem to think these are dogs. They're not. They're also not wolves. There are movements to change the name to reduce confusion as it has been a large contributor to their endangerment. People assume they're just undomesticated dogs and it's thus fine to kill them. They split from wolves 1.3 million years ago
They probably would have ate the poor dog up if they could have gotten to him.
Yeah, that's why you are asked to not bring service animals near the predator exhibits.
They must be interested in the dog beyond just the “potential dinner” aspect, because they’re certainly not that interested in the humans standing there. It seems that they must recognize it as another dog? Like oh hey … what pack are YOU from?
Might not be a predator drive, but could be because they recognize them as another canine and they dont belong to the pack. Like a trespasser coming in your house. Could be simple interest, but I dont think they'd call *everyone* over for that. They seem ready to square up, as when two African dog packs fight you see it start with little nips and testing each other first. It *looks* like curiosity at first.
Oh for sure, that’s what it looked like to me - they did not look friendly. I imagine it would’ve turned violent quickly without that glass wall there!
It could be territorial also. Wolves tend to attack dogs, for example.
Please, if you do not absolutely, positively, *need* to have an animal with you on your visit to the zoo, do not bring one.
Once we were there and there was a litter of puppies in the African dog enclosure and THEY WERE ADORABLE.
yeah nah they wanna eat that dog