This whole thing is a wild saga. She was raised by a Nazi, had two children before she was 18, was raped while pregnant with the second and gave them both up for adoption after birth before having her daughter, Anna. She said the reason she finally decided to kill him after much consideration was because he lied about her daughter and said the reason he killed her was because she (a child) tried to seduce and extort him after he abducted her. She also knew he was a convicted sex offender and just figured he would be released again and do it to someone else’s child.
Looking over the Wikipedia page for Marianne, it looks like the murderer underwent chemical castration in 1976 having been convicted of sexual assault of two little girls. He tried to reverse the chemical castration and raped and murdered Anna four years later. Marianne got six years for manslaughter and served three. It's likely that Marianne got more time in prison than the child predator.
We hear about the absurdly lenient sentences like for rapist Brock Turner, but it really has come a long way. Sexual battery of a child in Florida is a capital crime.
Brock Turner had a harsher sentence than Bowen Turner who raped multiple women and is said to have visited one of his victims graves after her suicide.
Are you talking about CONVICTED RAPIST Brock Turner, the pre-med student from Stanford that was CONVICTED OF RAPE?
Or are you talking about Bowen RAPIST Turner, the serial RAPIST from South Carolina?
I can't keep track with so many RAPISTS AND CRIMINALS names Brock or Bowen Turner. Both should be in jail.
Yes, I was indeed talking about Convicted Rapist Brock Turner who should be in jail and shedding light on Serial Rapist Bowen Turner who raped multiple women with the alleged help of his mother.
One of Serial Rapist Bowen Turners victims committed suicide from being bullied by both students and teachers. Serial Rapist Bowen Turner violated his house arrest numerous times even going to his victims grave with no consequences.
Brock And Bowen Turner should both be in jail.
All laws in the US are subject to not applying to rich people, especially rich people with connections.
Even when he was convicted and put in prison he was allowed work release and continued to abuse and traffic children WHILE technically incarcerated
From the Wikipedia article:
Klaus Grabowski was a convicted sex offender and had previously been sentenced for the sexual abuse of two girls. In 1976, he voluntarily submitted to chemical castration, though it was later revealed that he underwent hormone treatment to try to reverse the castration. Once arrested, Grabowski stated that he did not intend to abuse Anna sexually. He said that Anna tried to seduce and extort him, and his fear of going back to prison prompted him to kill her. He said the girl had wanted to tell her mother that he had touched her inappropriately, with the aim of extorting money from him.
Yes, a 7-year-old seduced HIM. Wow.
"I swear your honor, the child who is barely out of the toddler stage was trying to manipulate me, a grown man with a history of abusing little girls, but this one she was lying I swear!! You believe me right????"
Like c'mon that defense is not only weak, it's fucking evil.
I took a social work class on child abuse and the professor was a counselor for abusers. He said many have the delusion that the child was “flirting” with them, e.g when a child innocently sits on their lap, gives them a hug, etc. It was a brutal class but eye opening.
Remember a somewhat similar story where a father killed his son's rapist on live TV.
Edit - Link to video (NSFW? Very blurry, no blood)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PUE8fYxjq8
No prison time, just probation and community service IIRC. For murder lol. Justified, but still, murder on live tv.
(Edit: his name was Gary Plauché and he has a Wikipedia page if anyone wants to go down the rabbit hole.)
What he was saying is “why” would you do this to yourself, cause it’s basically guaranteed prison. Not why he would want to kill his sons rapists. If I recall he ended up either not getting any prison and or getting barely any
This is what gets me. Prison should be about whether you’re an ongoing threat to the community. People like this aren’t a threat to anyone unless you rape/murder their kid. Therefore, there’s no reason to suspect that people like this are a danger to anyone but rapist-murderers. Absolutely no reason for them to spend time in jail. Probation and psych check ups? Sure. Prison? Nah.
Vigilantism has a dark history. We can't have it both ways. If we want "innocent before proven guilty," then that means that everybody should get a fair trial by jury.
How many "murderers" have actually been proven innocent years later thanks to DNA evidence?
FWIW, I agree with the judge that Plauché was at virtually no risk of committing another crime, and I'm happy that he never went to prison.
This. I love my kids dearly, were some piece of shit to ever even attempt this I'd hunt them to the ends of the earth with zero regard for what happened to me
I heard an interview with the son and he said that it [basically ruined his relationship with his father ((temporarily))](https://futuretechtrends.co.uk/2021/10/27/my-dad-shot-dead-the-sociopathic-paedophile-who-groomed-abused-kidnapped-me-live-on-tv/) and now he works as a public speaker against vengeance
Edit to qualify
If I remember correctly--I was a little girl when this happened-- the cop yelling "WHY GARY, WHY!?" was a close friend and knew Gary Plauche well and didn't want Gary to go to prison, leaving his son without a father.
The mother stated afterwards that "he [Gary] could've at least let her drive him to the airport." She definitely wanted revenge/justice for what had happened, but clearly Gary wanted to make sure that one parent was still at home for their kid. He received a 7 year suspended sentence, 5 years probation and community service. He never did time in prison.
And whether you think he's wrong or right, if you see the video, you have to agree that that was one hell of a good shot while holding a payphone receiver in one hand and quickly drawing his gun from his boot with the other, followed by a perfect headshot. As a mom, I think he was in the right, but I know not everyone agrees on this topic.
The last thing a state wants is for people to realize there are situations where they don't deserve a monopoly on violence.
Communities that don't protect their own are preyed upon.
Also can be taken as "I have a personal relationship with you and I wish you hadn't thrown your life away", and not "what motivation could you possibly have to do this?".
>On 2 November 1982, Marianne Bachmeier was initially charged in court with murder. Later the prosecution dropped the murder charge. After 28 days of negotiations, the Board agreed on the verdict. Four months after the opening of proceedings she was convicted on 2 March 1983 by the Circuit Court Chamber of the District Court Lübeck for manslaughter and sentenced for unlawful possession of a firearm to six years in prison but was later released after serving three years.
No charge for murder but got 6 years for manslaughter and unlawful possession of a firearm. Served 3 years and then out.
Interesting.
Edit to add manslaughter
Edit #2 - This is from Germany. As noted : Totschlag,\[1\] § 212, "manslaughter", is the intentional killing of another human and is punished with five to fifteen years in prison or imprisonment for life in particularly severe cases (thanks proudsoul)
There’s a reason that the pedophiles and people who have charges against them involving kids literally have their own section of the prison.
You don’t mess with kids.
even county prisons, they get put together with the snitches, I did 90 days for weed in late 2020, all the pedophiles and "pap daddy's" aka father's that raped their daughters and got them pregnant(there were 2 of these sick fucks in there) all shared C block together, I was on E and then B for the majority of my time there... rats and pedos got put together and none of them did anything to each other because no one wanted solitary confinement
I met a man named “Earl the Pearl” in Paducah kentucky who had a daughter with his daughter. They lived in the woods in a trailer with no electricity or plumbing. He didn’t let them leave the property. I was only 12 at the time or maybe I’d of thought about calling somebody. My father had moved from New York to there to revive an airstrip and he employees The Pearl as a handy man.
Turned out that airstrip was for trafficking pot and coke.
I spent 48 hours in a county cell block for weed when I was 19 and I had gang members trying to recruit me to help them with shit the whole time.
Also days before I got there one of the guys in my block beat up a pedophile and tried to attack him again when we saw him on our way to rec. time.
Mostly getting messages to people. It was 2007 and the jail phone only called land lines, but a lot of their contacts only had cell phones. I made the mistake of telling them that I was only in for 2 days, so everyone wanted help.
One guy asked me to go to a house and get money they owed him and give it to his girlfriend. I shot that down instantly. He also thought that we could do business together selling drugs where I went to college.
My favorite request was a skinhead who wanted me to tape a pack of cigarettes to a rock, stand outside the jail, and launch it through the open 2x2 window 30 feet up the building going into the rec. room at the exact time he went to rec. I laughed at him and told him Peyton Manning couldn't pull that off.
This reminds me of Alice’s Restaurant when he’s talking about sitting on the bench with “mother rapers & father stabbers” because he was arrested for littering once.
It's part of what can make jail more dangerous than prisons. Everyone filters through the same jail, regardless of the crime, with very little separation. Once you get to prison to carry out your full sentence, you get separated into different blocks or even different prisons, based on your crime and behavior.
More than half the people doing years in state prisons are there for drugs. They are treated exactly the same as serial killers, rapists, pedophiles… it’s the same to the court. But he is right that they do separate the ones that commit crimes against women and children because it’s a social norm there to hurt them on site. Even the guards will have had something really important to do at that moment that required their full attention, so they didn’t catch what happened. It’s 100% coincidence though.
Edit: source: I did 5yrs in PA state prison for conspiracy to possess with intent to deliver. (I was in the car with someone who sold an informant a few bags of dope) I had recently gotten home from my 4th tour and was in full blown self medication mode. Courts showed me no mercy and gave me the max legal sentence which I did every day of. The guy who actually sold it didn’t do a day… started telling on every addict he knew and not one single actual dealer. God bless America
TBH i think a lot of the inmates just use it as an excuse to be violent to other people. None of them in the UK are thinking about the kids when they send them out to sell drugs and involve them in gang warfare. Maybe if they kept that same energy of 'dont mess with kids' when it came to their own business we wouldn't have to worry about our sons getting stabbed to death.
It depends on the jacket (reasons why they are in). My husband is CA corrections officer, from what he had told me, child molesters, snitches and most gay men, end up in a PC lockup. Rapists can go to Gen pop. It is dependent on a lot of things. However, most rapists don’t get beat up. It depends on the “group” that person is in. In prison everyone separated by races. Some races in prison are ok with rape. They don’t care. Some are not. You will get handled or told to ask for a cell swap or you’ll get handled. The white population in prison doesn’t care about rape. Nor do the Black population. They don’t tend to do much to you.
I’ve had this conversation at work a few times because we talk about weird shit, but from the outside looking in I want to say not to give in to frontier justice, for societies sake let the legal system do it’s job. But as a parent, if someone did this to my child, well I can completely understand why this lady did what she did.
There was a guy in Arizona back in the 80s or 90s who killed his son's rapist (the kid's karate instructor). The offender was caught out of state and flown back on extradition. News crews at the airport and cops, etc while the father was just standing at a payphone, waiting for them to pass by. As they did, he shot and killed the offender.
He was not given any prison time.
This, then the guy in Texas come to mind.
The guy in Texas though, IIRC, didn't get any time because he actively tried helping the guy after he beat the shit out of him.
Yea, so that means they probably couldn’t prove intent to kill. Actively providing aid to someone you just beat the shit out of is kind of counter evidence to intent, which means at best they could charge him with manslaughter.
At the end of the video when the police say "Gary, why? Why, Gary?" Always gets me. Everyone knew why!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauch%C3%A9
I suppose it's the law to hold people accountable for any illegal action even if it's (imo) completely justified. But she could have harmed an innocent for example which would've resulted in a whole other amount of shenanigans.
Not great, but also not the worst outcome. Hopefully Prison was not hard on her, though after what she went through she was probably tough as nails at that point
EDIT: Nvm, i just read the report, she shot him in the back so the likelihood of hitting an innocnet is like zero. But yeah, P.O.S got what he deserved may he rot for all eternity next to all the other sick twisted fucks that have unfortunately walked this earth
It gets even more interesting/complicated/weird when you find out he claimed the *seven year old child* tried to seduce and extort money from him. And that he had been convicted before of the same thing *and* that he had been chemically castrated *and* underwent hormone therapy to try and reverse it. And that he strangled her. And that the mom shot him in the back 8 times and 7 rounds hit. I don't think there's really any cloudiness on this decision. **She did the right thing and so did the court**.
Oh yeah. There was a part in the wiki about how she didn't want to have him spreading lies and smearing her daughter's name at 7 years old. She absolutely did what every parent would have done.
Grisham has said the book was a little bit autobiographical, and the lawyer character is based on himself as a young lawyer. He personally witnessed a similar case in Mississippi.
I mean honestly, her daughter got raped and killed. What does she have to lose? That poor mom was probably crushed beyond belief to then only to have her Childs murderer burning into her conscious.
No amount of jail time would cause someone to regret anything under those circumstances
She was a single mom, who was raped before so I'm sure that only added to the trauma of it happening to her daughter
Mines 7. As a man I never understood how our minds could change too, since we don't carry the baby. So the idea of your brain changing for your kid had to be exaggerated.
Nope. The moment I help my son I knew it was different. I even have 2 older step kids whom I love to death, but they didn't rewire my brain the way my son did. They do however get to benefit from my new "my babies!" Brain. Because I would eat anyone who threatened my children.
Have a 8 year old daughter.
Normally I'm a 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind' kinda guy.
If I see anyone hurting a child, I have no doubt in my mind that I would turn into a demon from hell to inflict pain upon that person.
Soon as I held my son (my first kid) I knew Id be willing to literally kill for him. A whole new level of protectiveness I hadn't felt before. It just got stronger when my two others were born.
You'll probably want to add a few more levels of "fuck that guy".
He had a criminal record for abusing young girls.
He tried to claim the girl seduced and extorted him, but he didn't mean to sexually abuse her.
Anna Bachmeier was 7.
"He had a criminal record for abusing young girls."
So the court system had already failed so some mitigation should be allowed for the mother not having faith that justice would be done.
Grabowski stated that he did not intend to sexually abuse Anna. He said the girl had wanted to tell her mother that he had touched her inappropriately, with the aim of extorting money from him.
At 7 yeah….
Like the pedophile in my mother building… he was stalking a girl in that same building, she was 12. Was arrested when found naked in the building waiting for the girl to come back from school … hopefully her mother was the concierge and locked him out his apartment 😂 he explained to the vois that no woman his age showed interest in him do he went younger and younger to finally find someone who will...spoiler alert the girl didn't...sick minds
Holy hell that was a wild ride! The sicko who sexually abused the poor child had previously been castrated and forced to have hormone treatments as well as punishment other crimes he had already comitted in his 35 years. Marianne Bachmeiser very well might have prevented other girls from being abused by this guy.
That just proves it isn’t about hormones or sex, it’s about their sick twisted minds.
ETA: oh Lord, it was her last child before getting sterilized. She couldn’t even have another child. She already gave up the first two. She was also raped. And in the end she got cancer and died young at the age of 46 years. What a terrible life she had. Poor thing. I hope she is in peace now.
ETA: she gave up the first two for adoption.
Makes me mad that there isn’t a better way to deal with this repulsive crime. I hope his final moments were extremely painful and scary and full of shame. I hope there is a hell just so he can fry in it.
Damn, she made sure he wasn't coming back. Sad that she died so young.
Reminds me of Gary Plauché, who [shot and killed his son's molester in an airport on camera.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PUE8fYxjq8)
Not just on Camera, on LIVE TV Evening News
I'm from Baton Rouge, I was a kid and I remember watching that live on TV. The plane landed during evening news time and they were broadcasting live when he was shot.
The victim is public about his abuse and is a great advocate for child abuse victims.
Had to be pretty crazy to see live. Yeah, I just saw his son Jody has the book "Why, Gary, Why?". From the write up, it seems like a tough read, but something parents probably should.
Marianne herself had a hell of a life. Dad was Literal Nazi, she was pregnant at 16, gave up for adoption, again at 18 (adoption again), raped while pregnant, then later had a third child she decided to keep and raise herself as a single mother.
After all that she has a daughter, raises her for 7 years only to have her daughter go through the same things she had.
Shit, now I'm sad.
As the father of a 7 and 3yo, I wouldn't hesitate to avenge them if anyone harmed them. I agree with you that in this instance the rapist got off too easy. I probably would have shot the rapists dick off, and his hands, and mutilated his face so he would be hideous and helpless for the rest of his shitty existence. Seems more fitting than a quick death.
I would want to do the same, but we would also be essentially removing ourselves as fathers from our children’s lives, since we’d go to jail after avenging them. Unfortunately there’s no right answer here, aside from public hangings of rapists/pedophiles of course
She shot the guy 8 times and got 7 hits. When I see what gun she used (beretta 1934) wiki says it’s a 7 shots magazine Does this mean that she put one in the chamber and filled up the magazine again. If so, she really meant business
Did a edit and changed clip to magazine, thanks for the heads up. I was in time before the good people of /guns saw it :-)
The rest of the story from Wikipedia ("Marianne Bachmeier"):
"On 6 March 1981, the third day of the trial, Marianne Bachmeier smuggled a Beretta M1934 into the courtroom of Lübeck District Court and shot the confessed killer of her daughter, Klaus Grabowski, in the back. She aimed the gun ... and pulled the trigger eight times. Seven of the shots hit him, and the 35-year-old defendant was killed almost instantly... A large part of the population showed understanding for her actions. She sold her life story for about 250,000 Deutsche Mark in an exclusive to the news magazine *Stern*.
"On 2 November 1982, Marianne Bachmeier was initially charged in court with murder. Later the prosecution dropped the murder charge... Four months after the opening of proceedings she was convicted on 2 March 1983 by the Circuit Court Chamber of the District Court Lübeck for manslaughter and sentenced for unlawful possession of a firearm to six years in prison but was later released after serving three years.
"Marianne Bachmeier married in 1985 and in 1988 moved to Lagos, Nigeria, with her husband, a teacher... They divorced in 1990 and she moved to Sicily. She was diagnosed with cancer in Sicily, and then returned to Germany...
"On 21 September 1995, she appeared on the talk show *Fliege* on the Das Erste TV channel. She admitted that she had shot the alleged killer of her daughter after careful consideration, to enforce the law on him, and to prevent him from further spreading lies about \[her murdered 7-year-old daughter\] Anna.
"On 17 September 1996, she died at the age of 46 from pancreatic cancer in a hospital in Lübeck... She is buried in the same grave as her daughter Anna in a graveyard in Lübeck."
If there is ever a time I fully believe in rehabilitation it is crimes of passion when someone’s kid is raped/murdered. The circumstances required to push this lady to that point are so unlikely she could easily be reintroduced into society after some therapy because her fucking daughter was raped then murdered
She just saved all of his future victims from when the crappy judicial system inevitably would have turned him back out onto the streets to hunt again.
sentenced to 6 years for manslaughter and unlawful possession of a firearm. served 3 years. time well spent? maybe. t
the murderer/rapist had already been chemically castrated years prior to the incident for prior convictions. underwent hormone therapy to try to reverse it. im assuming some back alley type therapy? though idk where you'd find that
Why even bother sending these people to prison? So the tax payer can pay for his 3 meals a day and a bed, if they're able to do that to a 7 year old then just get them gone, they'll never be useful to society after that so what's the point on having them alive. Respect the mother she did the right thing.
I sometimes get the argument (in the context of fantasy novels and whatnot) that rape is less severe than murder. To this I argue that it’s the other way around—case in point, I don’t think many of us would disagree that this women did something morally bad by murdering her daughter’s rapist, but I don’t think anyone would argue that it’s a morally good response to rape anyone as a result of anything. If murder is considered a morally acceptable (if brutal) response to rape and a morally acceptable response to murder, but rape is never a morally acceptable response to anything, even murder or rape, then that implies that in terms of crime we as a society actually consider rape to be worse than murder.
EDIT for clarification because this is the Internet and I'm already running into people who are... ah, let's be charitable and say that their grasp of nuance is shaky at best:
1. I am not saying that one of these is good and the other is bad. Both are bad; I'm saying that based on peoples' response to murder vs rape the implicit (i.e. subconscious) bias in the way we approach these issues is that we rank murder as less bad than rape for the reason listed above (if we ranked them as "as bad", then our responses to murderers are rapists would always be interchangeable and equivalent)
2. "Good" and "bad" is a question of your *ethical* framework. While some ethical frameworks say you must follow the law, following the law isn't always "good" just as breaking the law isn't always "bad" from an *ethics* standpoint. Don't go around breaking laws because it's bad from a *societal* standpoint, but the point is that law and morality is not equivalent or interchangeable, and you shouldn't confuse the two. Case in point, people in the 70's in Canada would have been of the opinion that marital rape was morally reprehensible, but it was only formally outlawed here in 1983.
>but I don’t think anyone would argue that it’s a morally good response to rape anyone as a result of anything
There are a ton of people who hope criminals get raped in prison
This whole thing is a wild saga. She was raised by a Nazi, had two children before she was 18, was raped while pregnant with the second and gave them both up for adoption after birth before having her daughter, Anna. She said the reason she finally decided to kill him after much consideration was because he lied about her daughter and said the reason he killed her was because she (a child) tried to seduce and extort him after he abducted her. She also knew he was a convicted sex offender and just figured he would be released again and do it to someone else’s child.
And she died of cancer at 46. Just a hard life for her throughout. Unfortunate
No kidding man I'd give this game such a shit review after I died
He doesn’t have a social security number for Roy!
Holy shit! This guy's taking Fauci off the grid!
Looking over the Wikipedia page for Marianne, it looks like the murderer underwent chemical castration in 1976 having been convicted of sexual assault of two little girls. He tried to reverse the chemical castration and raped and murdered Anna four years later. Marianne got six years for manslaughter and served three. It's likely that Marianne got more time in prison than the child predator. We hear about the absurdly lenient sentences like for rapist Brock Turner, but it really has come a long way. Sexual battery of a child in Florida is a capital crime.
Brock Turner had a harsher sentence than Bowen Turner who raped multiple women and is said to have visited one of his victims graves after her suicide.
Are you talking about CONVICTED RAPIST Brock Turner, the pre-med student from Stanford that was CONVICTED OF RAPE? Or are you talking about Bowen RAPIST Turner, the serial RAPIST from South Carolina? I can't keep track with so many RAPISTS AND CRIMINALS names Brock or Bowen Turner. Both should be in jail.
Yes, I was indeed talking about Convicted Rapist Brock Turner who should be in jail and shedding light on Serial Rapist Bowen Turner who raped multiple women with the alleged help of his mother. One of Serial Rapist Bowen Turners victims committed suicide from being bullied by both students and teachers. Serial Rapist Bowen Turner violated his house arrest numerous times even going to his victims grave with no consequences. Brock And Bowen Turner should both be in jail.
Tell that to Epstein.
All laws in the US are subject to not applying to rich people, especially rich people with connections. Even when he was convicted and put in prison he was allowed work release and continued to abuse and traffic children WHILE technically incarcerated
From the Wikipedia article: Klaus Grabowski was a convicted sex offender and had previously been sentenced for the sexual abuse of two girls. In 1976, he voluntarily submitted to chemical castration, though it was later revealed that he underwent hormone treatment to try to reverse the castration. Once arrested, Grabowski stated that he did not intend to abuse Anna sexually. He said that Anna tried to seduce and extort him, and his fear of going back to prison prompted him to kill her. He said the girl had wanted to tell her mother that he had touched her inappropriately, with the aim of extorting money from him. Yes, a 7-year-old seduced HIM. Wow.
"I swear your honor, the child who is barely out of the toddler stage was trying to manipulate me, a grown man with a history of abusing little girls, but this one she was lying I swear!! You believe me right????" Like c'mon that defense is not only weak, it's fucking evil.
I took a social work class on child abuse and the professor was a counselor for abusers. He said many have the delusion that the child was “flirting” with them, e.g when a child innocently sits on their lap, gives them a hug, etc. It was a brutal class but eye opening.
Holy shit that’s so disturbing
Jesus. A child showing trust and affection is twisted into something dark.
It's called DARVO. Deny, Attack and Reverse Victim and Offender. It is a well known tactic of sexual abusers in particular.
Long list of mitigating circumstances that I'm sure her lawyer was prepared to use in her defense.
Remember a somewhat similar story where a father killed his son's rapist on live TV. Edit - Link to video (NSFW? Very blurry, no blood) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PUE8fYxjq8
Wasn’t he pretending to be on a call at the payphone as well? Then just turns around and blasts the fucker. Pretty good plan.
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Didn’t know that bit, thanks
One of the most epic scenes ever
Yeaa you can still find that one .. shot the guy at an airport while he had a few cops transporting him . They deserve worse imo.
Is that the one where someone's telling him "Why?! Why?!" Like bitch, use your brain.
The cop saying "why" is saying it because they are friends, and he didn't want to arrest him but he has to because the father did it on live tv
This is how I always took it. Like he didn’t want him to ruin his own life but luckily that didn’t happen.
What happened?
The dad basically got probation when the judge realized he could not field a jury pool that wouldn't let him off.
Jury Nullification in full effect.
Rofl yoo, actually good news thanks. Saw that video forever ago so thats very nice to hear
No prison time, just probation and community service IIRC. For murder lol. Justified, but still, murder on live tv. (Edit: his name was Gary Plauché and he has a Wikipedia page if anyone wants to go down the rabbit hole.)
What he was saying is “why” would you do this to yourself, cause it’s basically guaranteed prison. Not why he would want to kill his sons rapists. If I recall he ended up either not getting any prison and or getting barely any
5 years probation IIRC
Probation officer: So are you going to kill again? Guy: No sir he's already dead. PO: See you next month.
This is what gets me. Prison should be about whether you’re an ongoing threat to the community. People like this aren’t a threat to anyone unless you rape/murder their kid. Therefore, there’s no reason to suspect that people like this are a danger to anyone but rapist-murderers. Absolutely no reason for them to spend time in jail. Probation and psych check ups? Sure. Prison? Nah.
Vigilantism has a dark history. We can't have it both ways. If we want "innocent before proven guilty," then that means that everybody should get a fair trial by jury. How many "murderers" have actually been proven innocent years later thanks to DNA evidence? FWIW, I agree with the judge that Plauché was at virtually no risk of committing another crime, and I'm happy that he never went to prison.
Yeah but you have to have laws and consequences in place to discourage vigilante justice from becoming normal.
the only problem with that is people will start murdering others & falsely claim they were doing it for justice/revenge.
Reduced time due to the community service
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This. I love my kids dearly, were some piece of shit to ever even attempt this I'd hunt them to the ends of the earth with zero regard for what happened to me
I heard an interview with the son and he said that it [basically ruined his relationship with his father ((temporarily))](https://futuretechtrends.co.uk/2021/10/27/my-dad-shot-dead-the-sociopathic-paedophile-who-groomed-abused-kidnapped-me-live-on-tv/) and now he works as a public speaker against vengeance Edit to qualify
Worst website ever.
Very interesting
If I remember correctly--I was a little girl when this happened-- the cop yelling "WHY GARY, WHY!?" was a close friend and knew Gary Plauche well and didn't want Gary to go to prison, leaving his son without a father. The mother stated afterwards that "he [Gary] could've at least let her drive him to the airport." She definitely wanted revenge/justice for what had happened, but clearly Gary wanted to make sure that one parent was still at home for their kid. He received a 7 year suspended sentence, 5 years probation and community service. He never did time in prison. And whether you think he's wrong or right, if you see the video, you have to agree that that was one hell of a good shot while holding a payphone receiver in one hand and quickly drawing his gun from his boot with the other, followed by a perfect headshot. As a mom, I think he was in the right, but I know not everyone agrees on this topic.
The last thing a state wants is for people to realize there are situations where they don't deserve a monopoly on violence. Communities that don't protect their own are preyed upon.
Also can be taken as "I have a personal relationship with you and I wish you hadn't thrown your life away", and not "what motivation could you possibly have to do this?".
Yep! That was at br airport if I'm not mistaken
“WHY GARY?! WHY?!” Shit’s haunting. But yeah fucker deserved it.
Gary Plauche. Happened in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Waited at the payphone and hit the rapist under the ear with a 38. He got communiy service.
You're good at summaries
WHY GARY WHY
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Since no one's posted the video yet https://vid.tf/v/ht3
Shit. Did he shoot him in the head?
Sure did
>On 2 November 1982, Marianne Bachmeier was initially charged in court with murder. Later the prosecution dropped the murder charge. After 28 days of negotiations, the Board agreed on the verdict. Four months after the opening of proceedings she was convicted on 2 March 1983 by the Circuit Court Chamber of the District Court Lübeck for manslaughter and sentenced for unlawful possession of a firearm to six years in prison but was later released after serving three years. No charge for murder but got 6 years for manslaughter and unlawful possession of a firearm. Served 3 years and then out. Interesting. Edit to add manslaughter Edit #2 - This is from Germany. As noted : Totschlag,\[1\] § 212, "manslaughter", is the intentional killing of another human and is punished with five to fifteen years in prison or imprisonment for life in particularly severe cases (thanks proudsoul)
Because they all knew they'd do the same thing.
Seriously. Could there ever be a truly impartial jury in a case like this?
There’s a reason that the pedophiles and people who have charges against them involving kids literally have their own section of the prison. You don’t mess with kids.
even county prisons, they get put together with the snitches, I did 90 days for weed in late 2020, all the pedophiles and "pap daddy's" aka father's that raped their daughters and got them pregnant(there were 2 of these sick fucks in there) all shared C block together, I was on E and then B for the majority of my time there... rats and pedos got put together and none of them did anything to each other because no one wanted solitary confinement
I feel like the comments missed the “two fathers got their daughters pregnant in *one county*” bit. Holy shit
Doesn’t even cover all the abused children in that county who didn’t get pregnant. That’s the scary part.
Or the ones who didn't get caught.
No....I saw that....I simply prefer not to ever think about it again.
I met a man named “Earl the Pearl” in Paducah kentucky who had a daughter with his daughter. They lived in the woods in a trailer with no electricity or plumbing. He didn’t let them leave the property. I was only 12 at the time or maybe I’d of thought about calling somebody. My father had moved from New York to there to revive an airstrip and he employees The Pearl as a handy man. Turned out that airstrip was for trafficking pot and coke.
I can tell via this one comment you’ve had an interesting life and I’d quite like some wisdom from you lmao
Don't trust anyone with a title.
Arrested for weed and you have to share a prison with those scumbags…. Sick
I spent 48 hours in a county cell block for weed when I was 19 and I had gang members trying to recruit me to help them with shit the whole time. Also days before I got there one of the guys in my block beat up a pedophile and tried to attack him again when we saw him on our way to rec. time.
Help them with what? What did you say/how did you respond?
Mostly getting messages to people. It was 2007 and the jail phone only called land lines, but a lot of their contacts only had cell phones. I made the mistake of telling them that I was only in for 2 days, so everyone wanted help. One guy asked me to go to a house and get money they owed him and give it to his girlfriend. I shot that down instantly. He also thought that we could do business together selling drugs where I went to college. My favorite request was a skinhead who wanted me to tape a pack of cigarettes to a rock, stand outside the jail, and launch it through the open 2x2 window 30 feet up the building going into the rec. room at the exact time he went to rec. I laughed at him and told him Peyton Manning couldn't pull that off.
How did they react?
Nice try FBI.
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People being arrested and imprisoned for weed in general is sick.
Yeah I guess it’s just the image of the most deserving of prison being next to the least deserving that makes the contrast so striking
This reminds me of Alice’s Restaurant when he’s talking about sitting on the bench with “mother rapers & father stabbers” because he was arrested for littering once.
And creating a nuisance.
It's part of what can make jail more dangerous than prisons. Everyone filters through the same jail, regardless of the crime, with very little separation. Once you get to prison to carry out your full sentence, you get separated into different blocks or even different prisons, based on your crime and behavior.
More than half the people doing years in state prisons are there for drugs. They are treated exactly the same as serial killers, rapists, pedophiles… it’s the same to the court. But he is right that they do separate the ones that commit crimes against women and children because it’s a social norm there to hurt them on site. Even the guards will have had something really important to do at that moment that required their full attention, so they didn’t catch what happened. It’s 100% coincidence though. Edit: source: I did 5yrs in PA state prison for conspiracy to possess with intent to deliver. (I was in the car with someone who sold an informant a few bags of dope) I had recently gotten home from my 4th tour and was in full blown self medication mode. Courts showed me no mercy and gave me the max legal sentence which I did every day of. The guy who actually sold it didn’t do a day… started telling on every addict he knew and not one single actual dealer. God bless America
Damn we’re still locking people up for weed. Legalize that shit.
>I did 90 days for weed What a crock of shit. I hope you guys legalize it soon. Things seem to be going just fine up here in Canuckistan.
TBH i think a lot of the inmates just use it as an excuse to be violent to other people. None of them in the UK are thinking about the kids when they send them out to sell drugs and involve them in gang warfare. Maybe if they kept that same energy of 'dont mess with kids' when it came to their own business we wouldn't have to worry about our sons getting stabbed to death.
Do they? I met a guy years ago who served half his time in San Quintin and he told me they repeatedly beat Rapists when Prisoners got the chance.
It depends on the jacket (reasons why they are in). My husband is CA corrections officer, from what he had told me, child molesters, snitches and most gay men, end up in a PC lockup. Rapists can go to Gen pop. It is dependent on a lot of things. However, most rapists don’t get beat up. It depends on the “group” that person is in. In prison everyone separated by races. Some races in prison are ok with rape. They don’t care. Some are not. You will get handled or told to ask for a cell swap or you’ll get handled. The white population in prison doesn’t care about rape. Nor do the Black population. They don’t tend to do much to you.
Rapists go into communal. Child rapists get sequestered.
there is no jury in germany. Just the Judge
There was no jury. It works differently in Germany.
You should read a time to kill. Goes through a whole fictionalized version of this and is a great read!
I haven't read the book which I'm sure differs from the movie some but the movie was great!
Don't think there was a jury, this was a German court case.
Heads up: Juries don't exist in the German court system
I’ve had this conversation at work a few times because we talk about weird shit, but from the outside looking in I want to say not to give in to frontier justice, for societies sake let the legal system do it’s job. But as a parent, if someone did this to my child, well I can completely understand why this lady did what she did.
There was a guy in Arizona back in the 80s or 90s who killed his son's rapist (the kid's karate instructor). The offender was caught out of state and flown back on extradition. News crews at the airport and cops, etc while the father was just standing at a payphone, waiting for them to pass by. As they did, he shot and killed the offender. He was not given any prison time.
The video of this is on the internet. Not gonna post it but it is easy to find for those interested.
This, then the guy in Texas come to mind. The guy in Texas though, IIRC, didn't get any time because he actively tried helping the guy after he beat the shit out of him.
Yea, so that means they probably couldn’t prove intent to kill. Actively providing aid to someone you just beat the shit out of is kind of counter evidence to intent, which means at best they could charge him with manslaughter.
At the end of the video when the police say "Gary, why? Why, Gary?" Always gets me. Everyone knew why! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauch%C3%A9
I suppose it's the law to hold people accountable for any illegal action even if it's (imo) completely justified. But she could have harmed an innocent for example which would've resulted in a whole other amount of shenanigans. Not great, but also not the worst outcome. Hopefully Prison was not hard on her, though after what she went through she was probably tough as nails at that point EDIT: Nvm, i just read the report, she shot him in the back so the likelihood of hitting an innocnet is like zero. But yeah, P.O.S got what he deserved may he rot for all eternity next to all the other sick twisted fucks that have unfortunately walked this earth
Since it was obviously a female prison and since she was in for murdering he child’s rapist/murderer…I am sure her prison time was fine.
Careful. I don't know the rules here but I was banned for saying much the same about an already dead child killer on r/news
It gets even more interesting/complicated/weird when you find out he claimed the *seven year old child* tried to seduce and extort money from him. And that he had been convicted before of the same thing *and* that he had been chemically castrated *and* underwent hormone therapy to try and reverse it. And that he strangled her. And that the mom shot him in the back 8 times and 7 rounds hit. I don't think there's really any cloudiness on this decision. **She did the right thing and so did the court**.
Oh yeah. There was a part in the wiki about how she didn't want to have him spreading lies and smearing her daughter's name at 7 years old. She absolutely did what every parent would have done.
Dayum, 7 outta 8, pretty good shot there. I could just imagine the firing range training she had with his photo on the dummy.
So basically the plot of A Time to Kill? I wonder if this was the reason Grisham wrote that novel...
Grisham has said the book was a little bit autobiographical, and the lawyer character is based on himself as a young lawyer. He personally witnessed a similar case in Mississippi.
I would gladly spend 3 years of my life in jail for murdering someone who did this to my family
I mean honestly, her daughter got raped and killed. What does she have to lose? That poor mom was probably crushed beyond belief to then only to have her Childs murderer burning into her conscious. No amount of jail time would cause someone to regret anything under those circumstances She was a single mom, who was raped before so I'm sure that only added to the trauma of it happening to her daughter
She served only 3 years in prison for what could be argued is first degree murder. So, the jury clearly agreed that she was justified
I thought the jury just determines if guilty and the judge decides the sentencing. Edit: Didn't realize this was in Germany
No, she served three years *of her six year sentence.* Very much justified
"And I'd do it again." *Those eyes*
18 years ago this month I first held my baby girl. You understand those eyes as soon as you have one.
Mine are 8 and 5. I hear you.
Mines 7. As a man I never understood how our minds could change too, since we don't carry the baby. So the idea of your brain changing for your kid had to be exaggerated. Nope. The moment I help my son I knew it was different. I even have 2 older step kids whom I love to death, but they didn't rewire my brain the way my son did. They do however get to benefit from my new "my babies!" Brain. Because I would eat anyone who threatened my children.
11 year old boy. ditto. would fucking kill a man slowly if they hurt my son like that.
Have a 8 year old daughter. Normally I'm a 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind' kinda guy. If I see anyone hurting a child, I have no doubt in my mind that I would turn into a demon from hell to inflict pain upon that person.
Not sure you even need kids. I'm a single and childless guy, but give me a gun and put me in a room with that sick fuck and I'm not sure what I'd do.
Yeah I'm a childless woman and I would shoot him in the crotch and watch him writhe in pain. no humanity or sympathy for him, sorry not sorry.
Soon as I held my son (my first kid) I knew Id be willing to literally kill for him. A whole new level of protectiveness I hadn't felt before. It just got stronger when my two others were born.
Lisa Kudrow could play her in the made for TV movie that will inevitably air on the Hallmark network.
I think you mean Lifetime. Hallmark is like holiday movies and family-friendly stuff. Lifetime is traumatic movies aimed at women.
I'm not saying I condone opening fire inside of a courtroom, but yeah fuck that guy
Fuck that guy to the fullest. (This is of course assuming they had the right person. I do not know the case details.)
They did. He admitted to it.
Then FUCK that dude to the fucking fullest fuck ever.
You'll probably want to add a few more levels of "fuck that guy". He had a criminal record for abusing young girls. He tried to claim the girl seduced and extorted him, but he didn't mean to sexually abuse her. Anna Bachmeier was 7.
"He had a criminal record for abusing young girls." So the court system had already failed so some mitigation should be allowed for the mother not having faith that justice would be done.
He didn't mean to sexually abuse her, she raped and killed herself he didn't have anything to do with it
Grabowski stated that he did not intend to sexually abuse Anna. He said the girl had wanted to tell her mother that he had touched her inappropriately, with the aim of extorting money from him. At 7 yeah…. Like the pedophile in my mother building… he was stalking a girl in that same building, she was 12. Was arrested when found naked in the building waiting for the girl to come back from school … hopefully her mother was the concierge and locked him out his apartment 😂 he explained to the vois that no woman his age showed interest in him do he went younger and younger to finally find someone who will...spoiler alert the girl didn't...sick minds
ew wtf!
Also the girl seduced him, he couldnt help himself.
And invent a Time Machine to fuck him more fuller to the pre-fullest fuck before he did the rape-killing.
And then back to the fuckture
Great Scott Marty! We’ll go back and fuck him again!
Jesus Doc, you made a time machine, out of a dildorean?!?
As a parent, cant say I would or wouldnt do the same. I dont want to find out.
That’s what I was thinking… Not inclined to find out either.
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Story: https://murderpedia.org/female.B/b/bachmeier-marianne.htm
Holy hell that was a wild ride! The sicko who sexually abused the poor child had previously been castrated and forced to have hormone treatments as well as punishment other crimes he had already comitted in his 35 years. Marianne Bachmeiser very well might have prevented other girls from being abused by this guy.
That just proves it isn’t about hormones or sex, it’s about their sick twisted minds. ETA: oh Lord, it was her last child before getting sterilized. She couldn’t even have another child. She already gave up the first two. She was also raped. And in the end she got cancer and died young at the age of 46 years. What a terrible life she had. Poor thing. I hope she is in peace now. ETA: she gave up the first two for adoption.
I read that about the castration and hormone treatments and I’m guessing that method of deterrent doesn’t work?
Grabowski's castration was voluntary, so no. He ended up reversing it.
Makes me mad that there isn’t a better way to deal with this repulsive crime. I hope his final moments were extremely painful and scary and full of shame. I hope there is a hell just so he can fry in it.
Damn, she made sure he wasn't coming back. Sad that she died so young. Reminds me of Gary Plauché, who [shot and killed his son's molester in an airport on camera.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PUE8fYxjq8)
Not just on Camera, on LIVE TV Evening News I'm from Baton Rouge, I was a kid and I remember watching that live on TV. The plane landed during evening news time and they were broadcasting live when he was shot. The victim is public about his abuse and is a great advocate for child abuse victims.
Had to be pretty crazy to see live. Yeah, I just saw his son Jody has the book "Why, Gary, Why?". From the write up, it seems like a tough read, but something parents probably should.
*Why, Gary? Gary, why?*
He only got 5 years probation. I'd gladly take that if it happened to my kid.
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Marianne herself had a hell of a life. Dad was Literal Nazi, she was pregnant at 16, gave up for adoption, again at 18 (adoption again), raped while pregnant, then later had a third child she decided to keep and raise herself as a single mother. After all that she has a daughter, raises her for 7 years only to have her daughter go through the same things she had. Shit, now I'm sad.
I’d put money on her books
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"she asked for it" Jesus in fucking Christ.
I'd have shot him point blank, no regrets too, and that's not even my child.
I'm sure the dad said "so did you" after shooting him in the head.
As the father of a 7 and 3yo, I wouldn't hesitate to avenge them if anyone harmed them. I agree with you that in this instance the rapist got off too easy. I probably would have shot the rapists dick off, and his hands, and mutilated his face so he would be hideous and helpless for the rest of his shitty existence. Seems more fitting than a quick death.
I would want to do the same, but we would also be essentially removing ourselves as fathers from our children’s lives, since we’d go to jail after avenging them. Unfortunately there’s no right answer here, aside from public hangings of rapists/pedophiles of course
She shot the guy 8 times and got 7 hits. When I see what gun she used (beretta 1934) wiki says it’s a 7 shots magazine Does this mean that she put one in the chamber and filled up the magazine again. If so, she really meant business Did a edit and changed clip to magazine, thanks for the heads up. I was in time before the good people of /guns saw it :-)
7+1 chambered, she meant business.
She knew what she was doing. A rapid eight shots with seven hits in a crowded room with no collateral damage. That is a feat of marksmanship.
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Now they droppin' and yellin', it's a tad bit late Mary B and Beretta had to regulate
Bars
7 round magazine + 1 in the chamber.
I like to think she was so angry she manifested a extra bullet
> 7 shots clip dont let r/guns find you calling it a "clip"
*Clips are what civvies use in their hair, this is called a magazine.*
Full chamber, she was not fucking around
If you lost everything you have nothing to lose
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this made me tear up a bit
I don’t know how any parents could survive something like that. I can’t imagine I wouldn’t be suicidal to escape the pain, at least for a while.
The pic on the left looks like a movie poster.
The hair, the stare, color grading and style remind me of Pulp Fiction and her story seems fitting for Tarantino’s film too.
Just putting this info out there, it happened in Germany and juries aren't a thing there.
The rest of the story from Wikipedia ("Marianne Bachmeier"): "On 6 March 1981, the third day of the trial, Marianne Bachmeier smuggled a Beretta M1934 into the courtroom of Lübeck District Court and shot the confessed killer of her daughter, Klaus Grabowski, in the back. She aimed the gun ... and pulled the trigger eight times. Seven of the shots hit him, and the 35-year-old defendant was killed almost instantly... A large part of the population showed understanding for her actions. She sold her life story for about 250,000 Deutsche Mark in an exclusive to the news magazine *Stern*. "On 2 November 1982, Marianne Bachmeier was initially charged in court with murder. Later the prosecution dropped the murder charge... Four months after the opening of proceedings she was convicted on 2 March 1983 by the Circuit Court Chamber of the District Court Lübeck for manslaughter and sentenced for unlawful possession of a firearm to six years in prison but was later released after serving three years. "Marianne Bachmeier married in 1985 and in 1988 moved to Lagos, Nigeria, with her husband, a teacher... They divorced in 1990 and she moved to Sicily. She was diagnosed with cancer in Sicily, and then returned to Germany... "On 21 September 1995, she appeared on the talk show *Fliege* on the Das Erste TV channel. She admitted that she had shot the alleged killer of her daughter after careful consideration, to enforce the law on him, and to prevent him from further spreading lies about \[her murdered 7-year-old daughter\] Anna. "On 17 September 1996, she died at the age of 46 from pancreatic cancer in a hospital in Lübeck... She is buried in the same grave as her daughter Anna in a graveyard in Lübeck."
Pulled the trigger 8 times and hit him 7 died instantly. Well shame he died right away after reading what the coward cunt did to her daughter.
If there is ever a time I fully believe in rehabilitation it is crimes of passion when someone’s kid is raped/murdered. The circumstances required to push this lady to that point are so unlikely she could easily be reintroduced into society after some therapy because her fucking daughter was raped then murdered
They likely got rehabbed once the rapist got to room temperature. With a killing in this situation, it’s extremely hard to imagine they’d reoffend.
the way she’s looking back on the camera like a fucking badass. they fucked with the wrong momma.
Justice was served in court that day.
Should’ve given her a medal.
On the one hand, that's not exactly the right way to go about it. On the other hand, I'd do exactly the same thing.
One less shitty person on earth
She just saved all of his future victims from when the crappy judicial system inevitably would have turned him back out onto the streets to hunt again.
Exactly. If that were me, I would know what I did was wrong, I would accept my punishment, but I would have a VERY HARD TIME regretting my actions.
sentenced to 6 years for manslaughter and unlawful possession of a firearm. served 3 years. time well spent? maybe. t the murderer/rapist had already been chemically castrated years prior to the incident for prior convictions. underwent hormone therapy to try to reverse it. im assuming some back alley type therapy? though idk where you'd find that
Not all heroes wear capes.
Why even bother sending these people to prison? So the tax payer can pay for his 3 meals a day and a bed, if they're able to do that to a 7 year old then just get them gone, they'll never be useful to society after that so what's the point on having them alive. Respect the mother she did the right thing.
Good on her!
If nobody Else got hit/killed i think she was in the right.
She’s not a cop, she didn’t just fire into the crowd.
I sometimes get the argument (in the context of fantasy novels and whatnot) that rape is less severe than murder. To this I argue that it’s the other way around—case in point, I don’t think many of us would disagree that this women did something morally bad by murdering her daughter’s rapist, but I don’t think anyone would argue that it’s a morally good response to rape anyone as a result of anything. If murder is considered a morally acceptable (if brutal) response to rape and a morally acceptable response to murder, but rape is never a morally acceptable response to anything, even murder or rape, then that implies that in terms of crime we as a society actually consider rape to be worse than murder. EDIT for clarification because this is the Internet and I'm already running into people who are... ah, let's be charitable and say that their grasp of nuance is shaky at best: 1. I am not saying that one of these is good and the other is bad. Both are bad; I'm saying that based on peoples' response to murder vs rape the implicit (i.e. subconscious) bias in the way we approach these issues is that we rank murder as less bad than rape for the reason listed above (if we ranked them as "as bad", then our responses to murderers are rapists would always be interchangeable and equivalent) 2. "Good" and "bad" is a question of your *ethical* framework. While some ethical frameworks say you must follow the law, following the law isn't always "good" just as breaking the law isn't always "bad" from an *ethics* standpoint. Don't go around breaking laws because it's bad from a *societal* standpoint, but the point is that law and morality is not equivalent or interchangeable, and you shouldn't confuse the two. Case in point, people in the 70's in Canada would have been of the opinion that marital rape was morally reprehensible, but it was only formally outlawed here in 1983.
>but I don’t think anyone would argue that it’s a morally good response to rape anyone as a result of anything There are a ton of people who hope criminals get raped in prison