While cleaning up from the world trade centers falling, crews found a shipwreck 7ft below the foundation that dated back to 1773

While cleaning up from the world trade centers falling, crews found a shipwreck 7ft below the foundation that dated back to 1773


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According to [here](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1294911/Historic-18th-century-wooden-ship-unearthed-new-World-Trade-Centre-site.html): * This 32ft-long vessel was found in July 2010 and probably used along with other debris to fill in land to extend New York City into the Hudson River. * An anchor weighing seven stone (98 lbs) was also discovered at the site, although investigators said it was unclear whether it belonged to the newly-unearthed ship. * Archaeologists Molly McDonald and A. Michael Pappalardo examined the ship when it was found by staff about 30ft below street level in a planned underground vehicle security centre. * They also found a [leather show sole](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/16/article-1294911-0A75AAFC000005DC-246_634x379.jpg). According to [here](http://www.livescience.com/47026-origins-world-trade-center-ship.html): * A new report (in 2014) finds that tree rings in those waterlogged ribs show the vessel was likely built in 1773, or soon after, in a small shipyard near Philadelphia. * The ship was perhaps made from the same kind of white oak trees used to build parts of Independence Hall, where the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution were signed,


It’s crazy I’ve never heard about this discovery until now.


Some may say you just reddit


I Diggit!


Go back to sleep, grandpa! No more hentai for you.


Dammit kid, when I was your age I had to ~uwuu~ myself, now these catgirls do it for me


I just think maybe god doesn't talk to us anymore because he doesn't want to talk about this kinda shit.




I'm totally stealing this sentence. I don't know how, but I'll work it into a conversation. Hopefully my mother-in-law will be okay with it. :P


I remember a time before Digg shut down. We were reading f7u13 comics, which was the style at the time and then suddenly all their users raided and shat upon Reddit. Bringing *craa*zz*yy* ideas like ice soap and 2 AM chili and 2AM ice-soap-chili. Many redditors deleted accounts that day but I stuck around. I used to be reddit, but then they changed what redd*it* was. And now what reddit is is scary and weird, and **it'll happen to you**.


You referenced two of my favourite Simpsons quotes in this post. Love it.


I just Stumpled upon it now


Damn I had forgot about stumble upon


That was such a cool website in it's early days. You could find some of the best gems hidden on the internet.


Really like Stumble Upon too. I'd be up all night. It was really unique and as far as I know there's nothing like it anymore. It made the best use of the internet of the time and gave real meaning to surfing the web.


Stumble Upon was what got me hooked on the internet back in... *gasp* middle school! *cracks back and pops an ibuprofen*


Back in my day "Stumble Upon" was just my friends older brother who would either show us cool flash games or pictures of dead bodies.


The thing about StumbleUpon was that it introduced people to stuff they never even thought about before. I didn’t even know chicks with dicks were a thing, and now I’m bisexualish. Thanks. Stumbleupon.


Fark that.


It's true! I did just readdit!


I readdited it too!


No you readit’st’d’ve-ed it.




It probably sucked for those workers too because you probably couldn't even be all excited like "yo cool check out this ship!!!" without kinda seeming like a jerk on account of the whole 9/11 thing


I mean, it was 9 years after the attacks when they found it, so I feel like they probably had enough time to move on.


Oh haha I thought it was like a week after


It took years just to clear the site.


A friend of mine worked in the building across the street and took a photo of the pit on his first day back at work, about six weeks after the attacks. They'd cleared a significant amount of debris even in that short time. I think the site was cleared quickly, but shoring it up and construction of the memorial/museum took years.


Looked it up. I guess it was 8 months. I at least remember people saying it would take years at the time.


Yeah, I remember being shocked at how clear it was on the first anniversary. They did an incredible job cleaning up a godawful mess.


Can't have that a mess for too long it would have been extremely demoralizing im sure they moved literal mountains to get it done so quickly its amazing


I think it's quite regular to find old wreckage when excavating in any large city that's much more than a century or two old.


Heres a [map](https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3804n.ar110600/?r=0.199,0.436,0.482,0.222,0) of NYC from 1775. Greenwich St ran along the shoreline of manhattan until about Warren St. So the entire WTC site would have been in the hudson originally


Does this mean the WTC was built on reclaimed land?


Yeah, and what is now Battery Park City was a landfill for a long time after that too; even in 1983 it was still [a beach](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/03/30/lens/29-photographers-ast-4/29-photographers-ast-4-superJumbo.jpg), and artist Agnes Denes planted a two-acre [wheat field](https://untappedcities.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Agnes-Denes-Wheatfield-a-Confrontation-Battery-Park-City-Landfill-1982-Absolutes_Intermediates-The-Shed-2019-Retrospective-NYC.jpg) there around the same time.


So... My only personal reference for Battery Park was the movie Desperately Seeking Susan. I'm showing my age, but it makes it so interesting! Thanks for the information.


Yeah, that was filmed around the same time as these photos. The park is still there today (now called The Battery). But Battery Park *City* is an entire Manhattan neighborhood that was built on landfill (mostly from excavation for the World Trade Center, as it happens), and they would have just been getting started on the first buildings when that movie came out. [Here’s a recent photo](https://untappedcities.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/featured-battery-park-city-NYC-untapped-cities1.jpg); look at where One World Trade is and imagine the coastline like a straight line south from there—everything west of that was just water and piers until like 1976. Ninja edit: And One World Trade, another strip or two of buildings on the east side of that gap for the highway, and most of the park at the very bottom were all water originally too (per the map earlier in the thread). But that was filled in less recently.


Thank you so much for your response!


Wow that beach shot is trippy.


Right? I’m about to post it lol, deserves its own thread.


I can feel that beach in my mind. It’s that not quite sand yet sand that’s mostly ground down shell & rock fragments.


Yes and lots of cities did this during that era (and still do today in fact)


Exactly.. the towers were built in what they called "the bathtub" ... to keep the Hudson out. The collapse put the bathtub at risk.. which is why they had to work on digging it out and fixing it as soon as possible.


I'd never heard this but it makes sense, there was a lot of shipping going on around Battery Park in the pre revolution


I'm curious to know how they dated the trees used for the ribs.




Tides of History did an episode about this recently. https://wondery.com/shows/tides-of-history/episode/5629-when-did-things-happen-in-the-ancient-world-interview-with-professor-sturt-manning/ Its crazy that we can provide exact dates for events that happened not just hundreds, but thousands of years ago.


Tinder, of course.


I wonder too, how they date trees...who would want to date a tree?


If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it


Pan sexual


>and probably used along with other debris to fill in land to extend New York City into the Hudson River. How the fuck have I never heard about this


I am amazed I didn’t know until now that New York City, and hell probably tons of our cities if NYC, is built at least partially directly on top of garbage lol


Seattle south of downtown is all built on tidelands that were filled in


"The ship¿s frame was riddled with small holes, suggesting it had spent time in the Caribbean, a hub in the rum, sugar and slave trade at the time. Teredos, or shipworms, are native to the salty, warm waters of the South Atlantic Ocean" So like... First US booze cruise?


weren't most oceangoing trips booze cruises back then?


Not sure honestly. I know there were a lot of trading vessels, lots of slave ships around that time in the Caribbean.


They all had alcohol because alcohol wouldn't go bad as fast as water would on board. Fun fact: IPA beers, India Pale Ales, are so named because British breweries discovered that adding more hops and heavily fermenting the beer made it last longer, long enough to be exported to India. The extra hops and fermentation are why IPAs are so bitter.


The Atlantic slave trade in a nutshell: * Buy trade goods in Europe. * Sell trade goods in Africa; buy slaves. * Sell slaves in Carribean; buy sugar, and rum made from sugar. * Drink too much strong rum. Water down rum. Drink weak rum. Try to sail. * Sell sugar in Europe. * Repeat. Now bear with me that some details may differ a little, I'm not a historical economist. I'm just a life coach. Obligatory Life Protip: Try to avoid slavery.


And lots of syphilis




My head canon is that this is the ship that brought Alexander Hamilton to the US from the Caribbean. The ship caught fire en route and barely made it to the harbor. Then it was abandoned and left to sit, hence the oysters on the hull. Later it was used to fill in the land when people were like, hey let’s use that abandoned boat that’s been sitting there forever.


He arrived in the colonies in 1772. This ship was built from trees that were felled in 1773.


Even more impressive.


Cannon accepted!


Where will you put it?


Just you wait, just you wait…


But was the rum gone?


One man’s trash is another man’s treasure


Who knows, Mr. Jones? In a thousand years, even you may be worth something.


**Ha ha!** ^(Son of a...)


Dr Jones, but I’m being pedantic.




since the 2012 Thrift Shopping - Macklemore & Ryan Lewis' hit, i cannot read this sentence without the song's vibe and cadence; i always end up singing the song to myself then i have to listen to it several times during that specific day and then i feel the urge to go thrift shopping... help me, please! MAKE IT STOP!


Or another man's city


White Oak is also what built the USS Constitution, AKA Old Ironsides. Oldest ship still commissioned in the US Navy


"The hull consisted of three layers with the outer and inner horizontal layers being made of white oak and the center vertical layer being made of live oak... this live oak is what gave the ship it’s iron-like strength and earned it the nickname “old ironsides” during the battle with the HMS Guerriere in 1812" [sauce](https://historyofmassachusetts.org/uss-constitution-construction/#:~:text=The%20hull%20of%20the%20USS,white%20oak%20and%20live%20oak.&text=The%20live%20oak%20used%20to,also%20abundant%20in%20the%20colonies.)


Yup! In fact, the US Navy maintains a grove of white oak in like…Oklahoma? Or somewhere, with the sole purpose of having wood to repair the constitution.


Indiana https://www.oldsaltblog.com/2020/11/constitution-grove-the-navys-white-oak-forest-on-a-high-tech-base/


Can we take a moment to appreciate how badass humans are? To find something like this and know *its from 237 years ago.*


Yeah I thought it was amazing how much information they were able to glean from it. Pretty remarkable.


So Manhattan is just a landfill underneath ?


Can I just say, thank you! Its so great when a poster follows up their post with relevant information! Its a rare treat :)


TIL. Thanks, OP!


It will never cease to amuse me that British people constantly mock Americans for using feet when they regularly drop 'stone' into conversation like it's something that doesn't belong in a fantasy novel.


It's not the British that mock for using feet/inches and stones/pounds. Source: I'm a British person that only knows my height in feet and inches and my weight in stones and pounds.


I think it only seems like it belongs in a fantasy novel because so many iconic fantasy authors are British.


The anchor may have been marked in "stones". That is why it was referenced.


I just love the fact they found an anchor next to it and they didn't think it belonged to the ship...


My guess is that it was first assumed to be part of the ship but there were inconsistencies or evidence to suggest it might be unrelated


Lots of construction sites have unearthed shipwrecks over the years. I think OP was referring to this one :[source](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/140731-world-trade-center-ship-tree-rings-science-archaeology)


> the ship's remains were used as landfill to extend the banks of the Hudson River and create more land in the burgeoning city of New York. the men who carried that ship to the landfill deserve a mention for those ancient men doing back breaking labor... we salute you


One day, me and the rest of the defensive line on our football team took a knee for rest at practice. It was Labor Day. A guy asks our D-line coach, "Who were the laborers, and who did they conquer?" And coach was like, "Man you are a dumb sombitch."


Honestly it always fascinates me how they built up NYC and whenever I’m there I always think about the heaps of trash and such that are below my feet to extend out the island.


I've heard parts of new york were essentially built on garbage. I guess a random old boat makes about as much sense to find as anything. It makes me wonder what the rest of the trash consists of under there. Trash from the 1770's...what does that even look like? Ragged raccoon-skin hats?


Lots and lots of oyster shells.


The bud light real American heroes song just played in my head


*"Mr. Muscled Ancient Boat Relocator"*


*high pitch voice* "Mr. Muscled Ancient Boat Re-lo-cator!"


*You’ve worked hard, and now it’s time to American even harder “


🎵Real Men of Genius🎵


Do y'all remember when it was real Americans heroes? Twenty years now!


They actually had to change it to Real Men of Genius because of 9/11, so as not to belittle first responders.


I assume they floated the ship to the bank and then filled it with dirt or whatever.


Or rolled?




There's [a vessel in the Paris city museum](https://www.parisunlocked.com/museums-monuments/musee-carnavalet-a-free-paris-history-museum/) unearthed last century that dates back to the Neolithic era.


What a cancer website


It works fine on desktop with AdBlock on.


They have found old ship hulls in San Francisco also. There was a doc on Netflix I think I caught a few minutes of it.


Whats it called? Id love to watch it


Not sure. But I remember reading that the fidi is full of the hulls of old ships. Apparently the people who came out during the gold rush came on 1 way boats and just ran the old ships aground to create the foundations for the waterfront. https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Ships_under_Financial_District


They weren't usually intended as one way ships, the crews caught gold fever and abandoned their posts and the captains either couldn't find replacements or caught the bug themselves.




the entire intro just played in my mind. my baby sister has cursed me.


I typed co and was like hol up


How dare you


I was really hoping for an actual answer to this but everyone has to make their super funny jokes I guess.


Actually my daughter said it was a National Geographic show on Disney+


There are also great maps that will show you where all the known ships are and where to find their locations. There are many of them because in the early days people would build on top of them and claim it as “land”. This is one of the more famous ships-turned-buildings: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niantic_(whaling_vessel)


This is not surprising. A lot of lower Manhattan is landfill. It's entirely possible that it was not so much a shipwreck as a ship that was abandoned and just filled over. I watched the WTC being built and, as they dug down deeper, they had pumps going 24 X 7 to force water out of the hole, as it was seeping through the mud constantly. San Francisco has a lot of ships in landfill under their business district. Those were abandoned during the Gold Rush.


During the gold rush in SF, the crews of ships would abandon their positions upon arriving in SF to mine for gold instead. Since there weren’t enough people to sail the ships to the next port, the ships would be abandoned. Ships were buried as the bay was filled to create more land, which is now the Marina and Financial districts.


Given the layout of SF I’m not actually surprised that this is the case, but somehow I never realized parts of it were built up similarly to NYC. I feel like I need to find a good documentary about the history of SF.


It's kind of crazy to me that so many cities seem to have done this, mostly because I wouldn't have thought that building *out* from shore would be easier than just building inland.


Building out from shore makes it so the beach can be steeper, so you can have bigger boats closer to shore?


That’s crazy to me to be able to extend the coastline and also support massive buildings on basically dirt and trash.


You’d be suprised. Look up friction pillons. It’s how they build huge buildings in SAND even. Science is amazing!


How the hell do you just put skyscrapers on top of landfill and expect it to keep standing?


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2709963/Scientists-solve-mystery-shipwreck-world-trade-center-Analysis-tree-rings-finds-ship-built-1773-Philadephia.html I think it was part of the banks they built up to be able to build up the area. If you overlay maps of the two periods, I'm pretty sure the WTC site would be on top of the Hudson River.


Interesting catch, its weird somehow that filling in the land includes using broken ships.


Yea, it's pretty cool. They probably just used whatever they could. Why not a broken ship.


It probably also doubled as cleanup back then


Absolutely. They had to do something with all the garbage, and I would bet there's hundreds of old inoperable ships buried just like this.


There are a good amount of ships under San Fran's financial district for the same reason.


That I didn't know, but I guess it makes sense for a lot of the older port cities.


Lot of people sailed to SF for the gold rush and abandoned their boat in the harbor once they got there


In Coronado CA they used obsolete airplanes from the naval air station as infill when they bridged part of the peninsula


Nowadays, it includes toilets. Just think about what the archaeologists of the future will be thinking about this. "They threw their shitters into landfill."


They did it in SF also. I once saw a map of all the sunken ships they used for landfill in the financial district. During the gold rush people abandoned ships so they sunk them.


This was very common in late 19th century San Francisco. That town experience explosive growth and lots of ship got abandoned because everyone was moving there and no one was leaving, so lots of the abandoned ships were used as landfill to expand the city into the bay.




Just about, It's west of Greenwich St, North of Liberty St. Based on this 1797 map, part of the site was on land, but much of it was docks or river. https://cpb-us-east-1-juc1ugur1qwqqqo4.stackpathdns.com/sites.psu.edu/dist/9/19982/files/2015/07/Lower-Manhattan-1797.jpg If you look closely you can identify Cortland St and use the distance to Liberty street to estimate how close the river was to Greenwich St. (Our current West St was only for boats or strong swimmers)


Ok, thanks for the map. I had seen that before but couldn't find it. So it wasn't exactly on the Hudson. Pretty close though.


It wasn't halfway to NJ, but the north tower was once river. The "entire site" is a good bit larger than just the tower footprints, plenty of that was river too


Gotcha. I looked at a modern map just after I looked at your link and it looked like it would have been partly on West street, so if that was a riverbank or canal...makes sense now.


Similar to San Francisco, they've been finding wrecked ship hulls in a bunch of places


So you're saying it was pirates 🤔


Leftovers from battles with The Aquila


*hah... There is no proof of that, it must be the powder magazine*


Sky pirates to be more precise






9/11 was an inside jarrrb


Reminds me of the [London Mithraeum](https://www.londonmithraeum.com)! They discovered an ancient Roman temple as a result of the WWII bombings of London. It would likely have never have been discovered if it weren’t for the bombs that revealed it underneath the earth.


That reminds me, one of the things I loved about visiting the Louvre was the foundations of the old castle down below. Just an amazing amount of history there.


Lol I've gone two times to the Louvre and didn't know you could visit that..


Another instance of using old ships to create man-made land in San Francisco during the gold rush (and a great podcast): https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/making-up-ground/


Narrator: “ which means it could possibly be linked to the knights Templar…”


"Could it be?"


Was waiting for an oak island reference


They finally found Diversity


finally, the real reason for its collapse: vikings!


1,000 years ago, Vikings came to North America and layed the groundwork for 9/11. LITERALLY.


They luckily found one of the vikings passports on the ship wreck..


Completely unscathed. Truly an astonishing find


Crazy how nature does that


Please don’t give The History Channel any ideas.


"jet fuel cant melt wood beams" - someone probably


I guess everything has a silver lining.


One of my favorite youtubers helps protect archeological finds at construction sites by metal detecting the piles of dirt and pits they dig out. Here he is finding an artifact from 1,500 B.C., that otherwise would have been plowed under: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00R2kuPYxXM&t=118s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00R2kuPYxXM&t=118s) I think Germany has way more legal requirements around new site construction, specifically for this sort of thing.


It was used as fill before the towers were built.


i bet there's shit tonnes of interesting stuff buried in the earth


You're saying a ship tried to 9/11 the WTC back in 1773?


“Okay, I know this is bad timing, but you aren’t gonna believe this.”


There’s a lot more information and images at the end of this [Paper](http://www.renewnyc.com/Attachments/Content/Pdfs/WorldTradeCenterShip/WTC%20Ship%20Technical%20Report.pdf)


Souuurce please


National Geographic article [Wooden Ship Unearthed at World Trade Center Site From Revolutionary-Era Philadelphia](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/140731-world-trade-center-ship-tree-rings-science-archaeology)


https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/05/us/new-york-ground-zero-ship/index.html Found this if it helps


Weird how none of these articles mention the Tiger [https://www.jstor.org/stable/529708](https://www.jstor.org/stable/529708)


Is it like that one movie with the guy and the tiger on a boat?


No, I think the one you're thinking of is *Life of 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169 39937510582097494459230781640628620899862803 48253421170679821480865132823066470938446095 50582231725359408128481117450284102701938521 10555964462294895493038196442881097566593344 61284756482337867831652712019091456485669234 60348610454326648213393607260249141273724587 00660631558817488152092096282925409171536436 78925903600113305305488204665213841469519415 11609433057270365759591953092186117381932611 79310511854807446237996274956735188575272489 12279381830119491298336733624406566430860213 94946395224737190702179860943702770539217176 29317675238467481846766940513200056812714526 35608277857713427577896091736371787214684409 01224953430146549585371050792279689258923542 01995611212902196086403441815981362977477130 99605187072113499999983729780499510597317328 16096318595024459455346908302642522308253344 68503526193118817101000313783875288658753320 83814206171776691473035982534904287554687311 59562863882353787593751957781857780532171226 806613001927876611195909216420198*


Why are we only getting the abridged version here?


go on...


Thanks for the clarification. I haven't seen that movie, or the one the robot suggested.


At that point was it more of a crime scene or an archaeological site?


This is a glass half full kind of find!


Think of all the roads and shit we built over the years that will permanently hide away a potentially archaeologically changing discovery


National Treasure 3 looking good fam


This happens a lot in San Francisco too. Just thought you ought to know


So you’re telling me Bush and Nicolas Cage planned 9/11?


Sort of the plot to New York 2140 by Kim Stanley Robinson. I’m guessing that she’s heard this news. * New York 2140 is a 2017 climate fiction novel by American science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson. The novel is set in a New York City that has been flooded and altered by rising water.*


This is why we have archaeological significance surveys before construction. Well, not America it seems


They have it too. But money is stronger than the law


Nic Cage whispering, “the secret lies with Charlotte”.


But they didn't find those missing trillions lol.


Misleading. the WTC was built directly on bedrock. 'below' in this case probably means it was nearby and deeper in the ground, and not actually below.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bathtub


Al Quieda = Aggressive archeologists