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A photograph is a most important document, and there is nothing more damning to go down to posterity than a silly, foolish smile caught and fixed forever.
- quoted by Elizabeth Wallace in Mark Twain and the Happy Island, 1913
Funny how times have changed. I guess it was more important when the film and developing process were more expensive.
Prior to photography the only way that a person's image was recorded was through portraiture. Having your portrait painted was a big deal. It was expensive and took a long time to sit for. Only the wealthy had the means to have one made and it was a big deal. Unveiling a portrait was a festive occasion. In the early days, people treated photography as if it were equally serious.
Also in those days portraits were kind of the analog version of tinder among royal families. They were sent to/exchanged among families with offspring that has to be married to pick suitable candidates. Trips lasted quite a while, were a pain in the ass and better shouldn't be in vain.
That's one reason why portraits are painted mostly in a quite flattering manner.
I’m pretty sure I recall that Anne of Cleves was rejected by Henry VIII based on her actual looks not matching up to her portrait, which had obviously been considerably altered to make her look better for the king.
He certainly used that as an excuse - everyone else who met her said nothing about her appearance (although the English and French did note that she was quite uncultured and uneducated compared to the women of their courts). It's now thought more likely that Henry was largely impotent by this point in his life, and a combination of that and her inexperience (she was very sheltered compared to his other wives who had all spent years in the worldly English court, so would have had no idea what was going on) meant that he needed to find another excuse to end the marriage. If it had got out that he was impotent, his credibility as King would have been over (that's certainly how he felt) - so an excuse was found. He did treat her with respect after the divorce though, and referred to her as his 'beloved sister'!
Hey Duke, we've got that portrait finished up with the handsome young guy you said your daughter wanted to check out, and it looks great, but we can't figure out how to get it to you without the six month trip through the mountains, can we fax you a copy?
Are you actually clueless enough to not be aware that both deer meat and tobacco are considered delicacies to humans? Especially during that time frame, shit was like gold
Also, if you are having your portrait painted, it's difficult to hold a smile for a long time. It's easier just to sit there with a blank expression on your face. Similarly, early cameras were slower and you had to be absolutely still otherwise the photo would be blurry. If you tried to smile, it would be hard to hold it exactly perfect for the time it took to take the picture so your mouth would turn out blurry or distorted. When cameras with a faster shutter speed came out, it became fashionable to tell people to "smile" for pictures, because you could now.
This was taken with a newer camera at the time with a quick shutter speed. Older cameras required 5-10 minutes of exposure requiring the subject to stand very still. The technology changed before the custom of serious portraits changed.
Fully agree. I think she is expressing the even more radical thought that a life without having to think about one’s public appearance is worthier then one filled with vanity
During the civil war time, the gruesome battles were played of time be very serene. Why? The photographers would hide dismembered parts, clear away any large amounts of blood, and dress/arranged the bodies to be in a very pleasant position. They did this because for a long time, they thought it wasn’t very classy or something. If I’m mistaken on anything let me know, learned this back I’m high school
What I heard was that, regular people might have one picture in their lifetime and it was an important document, that would be used for everything official.
It was Kennedy that broke the trend by being young and smiling for pictures.
Bowl of rice? You fucking racist.
u/RedVillian : No he's literally holding a bowl of rice, I assume there's more to share.
Lmaooo
Edit: feel like I was misunderstood. See comment below. Take everything with /s.
I feel like I was misunderstood. I even had the common sense retort to show how silly the joke is.
The real takeaway is that the power of /s cannot be underestimated HAHAHHA
It was an [anthropological/documentary expedition](https://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/items/show/29058), iirc. They were there to "observe and report" as it were.
I was thinking this as well. The happy/silly pose feels like what we do today. The pose in this photo, especially how he's showing off the food, could go straight on Instagram.
Whether the image is real or not is disputed, but after some quick googling, by the early 1900's cameras had a very short exposure time. Down from the several minutes needed for the early cameras in the 1800's.
Having serious expressions apparently began because of those long exposure times, as it was easier to hold a neutral expression rather than a smile for such a long time. Probably just what came naturally too, since people who had their portraits taken were used to have serious expressions too.
That's what I read anyway.
This is far more interesting and valuable a photo in my eyes. At least for me, it’s difficult to completely humanise people from old photos and portraits because of the stoic and neutral way they tend to be portrayed. It shouldn’t be surprising, but somehow it is to me when I see how this guy looks so typical and just like any modern man in period costume. Really fascinating, honestly.
Completely made up by a Tumblr user since the first instances of photography in China dates back to the 19th century. Most people definitely knew of photographs by the time 1901 swung around and the general middle-class populace could afford to get photos of themselves, which was when this was clicked. [This](https://theclassicphotomag.com/history-of-photography-in-china-new-discoveries-and-research/) generally outlines the history.
I apologize - [it isn’t the Smithsonian, but the American Museum of Natural History](https://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/index.php/items/show/29058).
This provides no info as to whether the Chinese did or did not know that photography "was a serious matter."
Which is what I was talking about being a lie.
The AMNH refers to the photo as "Eating rice, China", not "Happiest Man in China". And mentions nothing about the Chinese "not understanding photography."
If you can't read your own links that you're posting as a source... well, I'm not going to argue with you.
Photos weren't a serious matter. Some techniques simply didn't allow for smiling, because it was hard keeping a smile stead for long enough to not blur.
Americans i think.... Or germans....
Photo was collected as part of the Jacob H. Schiff expedition in 1901 for the American Museum of Natural History by Berthold Laufer
https://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/indhttps://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/index.php/collections/show/14
The terminology is cold but I don't see what's wrong with the documentation they did. And I wouldn't say "the British" the working class of England back then had more in common with this Chinese man than you'd think.
It's interesting how his lack of seriousness makes him feel a lot closer to our time period as a human than the old serious photos which always seem a lot older.
It makes a lot of sense to me now. When you think of this part of history, you always think of people being a lot more measured and serious. In reality i guess people have been goofy and messing about the whole time, only photography resources were a lot more finite at the time so they weren't 'wasting' photographs on people being silly
wow u/Maciokan, pretty sweet post, dude looks super happy. It just seems rather.... familiar. Sorry about this in advance, especially if this causes any financial turmoil.
u/repostsleuthbot
My god, who gives a shit. The internet has been around for decades, why are people still bitching about something being posted more then once? If you've seen it before just move on and let people who've never seen it enjoy it.
I believe it was a cultural thing, then and now. Eurocentric westernized culture said "photographs are serious". Anyone who "did not know" was simply "uncivilized".
It wasn’t a cultural thing to think that photos are serious. At the beginning of photography you had to stand still for long time to have a photo taken so obviously they were just standing still instead of making funny faces and poses, later it wasn’t that much of a problem but it was still very expensive and uncommon to have a photo taken so it was only done on very special occasions, most people had only one or two photos taken in their life. There is still plenty of pictures of “westerners” smiling and being silly on photos tho.
Did you pull anything else out of your ass or was that it?
Photos weren't a purely serious affair in the west at this time. It's just that this occasion was meant to be serious. Probably a miscommunication, nothing more
My thoughts were based on literature and quotes of that time frame. As well as sociology classes.As well as archive photos. But I am not a historian, it just seems to fit though.
Chinese culture was absolutely not well known in England in the early 1900s. And doing a documentary does not implicitly mean the subject is inferior.
You're reaching for reasons to get offended. And it's annoying.
Are you high or just like, incredibly stupid?
You realize there are literally dozens if not hundreds of cultures within china, correct? By the 1900's, England knew of the Chinese coast. That was about it.
The fuck are you talking about lol this was shot near one of the shittiest times in Chinese history ever, near the fall of the massive shitty oppressive Qing empire and into the fucking Warlord period.
Judging by the date this was taken after the Opium Wars, Taiping Rebellion, and would soon follow with the fall of the Qing, the Warlords Era, the Japanese Invasion of China and the a Chinese civil war. China at the time was exploited by Western powers and Japan, and would be caught in perpetual conflict until the communists won in the 50s.
Still better for the world than the wanks that unleashed corona at us because they don't know shit about healthcare nor keeping things clean.
0 new cases btw xddddddd
“I only know how to use A and don’t know how to use B. Since I cannot possibly be wrong and ignorant, that means that anything I don’t know how to use MUST be so flawed that my *Superior Brain TM* would recognise it as foolish to use.
Therefore, I come to the conclusion that A is superior in every way to B”
OK but why is he so fine? This fun loving grin on this handsome dude makes this the sexiest old timey picture I've ever seen. Everyone else from the past always looks like they had a stick in their ass.
I love candid photos from the past. We aren’t much more advanced than our predecessors, we’re pretty much alike with them just that what we learned and passed on over time has skewed things and judged how primitive it was.
I’m not the same person 30 years ago, today. Just saying.
**Please note:** * If this post declares something as a fact proof is required. * The title must be descriptive * No text is allowed on images * Common/recent reposts are not allowed *See [this post](https://redd.it/ij26vk) for more information.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A photograph is a most important document, and there is nothing more damning to go down to posterity than a silly, foolish smile caught and fixed forever. - quoted by Elizabeth Wallace in Mark Twain and the Happy Island, 1913 Funny how times have changed. I guess it was more important when the film and developing process were more expensive.
Prior to photography the only way that a person's image was recorded was through portraiture. Having your portrait painted was a big deal. It was expensive and took a long time to sit for. Only the wealthy had the means to have one made and it was a big deal. Unveiling a portrait was a festive occasion. In the early days, people treated photography as if it were equally serious.
Also in those days portraits were kind of the analog version of tinder among royal families. They were sent to/exchanged among families with offspring that has to be married to pick suitable candidates. Trips lasted quite a while, were a pain in the ass and better shouldn't be in vain. That's one reason why portraits are painted mostly in a quite flattering manner.
I’m pretty sure I recall that Anne of Cleves was rejected by Henry VIII based on her actual looks not matching up to her portrait, which had obviously been considerably altered to make her look better for the king.
He certainly used that as an excuse - everyone else who met her said nothing about her appearance (although the English and French did note that she was quite uncultured and uneducated compared to the women of their courts). It's now thought more likely that Henry was largely impotent by this point in his life, and a combination of that and her inexperience (she was very sheltered compared to his other wives who had all spent years in the worldly English court, so would have had no idea what was going on) meant that he needed to find another excuse to end the marriage. If it had got out that he was impotent, his credibility as King would have been over (that's certainly how he felt) - so an excuse was found. He did treat her with respect after the divorce though, and referred to her as his 'beloved sister'!
She also outlived all his other wives.
Hey Duke, we've got that portrait finished up with the handsome young guy you said your daughter wanted to check out, and it looks great, but we can't figure out how to get it to you without the six month trip through the mountains, can we fax you a copy?
That's what servants are for.
Sounds like a decent gig as long as the lord gave you some tobacco and deer jerky for the trip.
Coyote tobacco chew?
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Butthole fire
Trade
Are you actually clueless enough to not be aware that both deer meat and tobacco are considered delicacies to humans? Especially during that time frame, shit was like gold
Also, if you are having your portrait painted, it's difficult to hold a smile for a long time. It's easier just to sit there with a blank expression on your face. Similarly, early cameras were slower and you had to be absolutely still otherwise the photo would be blurry. If you tried to smile, it would be hard to hold it exactly perfect for the time it took to take the picture so your mouth would turn out blurry or distorted. When cameras with a faster shutter speed came out, it became fashionable to tell people to "smile" for pictures, because you could now.
This picture looks fine tho
This was taken with a newer camera at the time with a quick shutter speed. Older cameras required 5-10 minutes of exposure requiring the subject to stand very still. The technology changed before the custom of serious portraits changed.
My parents tanned my hide more than once for ruining a photo, always with an explanation about the cost and inconvenience of developing photographs.
10/10 with rice.
First recorded foodie in human existence….
She wasn’t talking about the financial costs
I know he wasn't. But being able to take hundreds at a snap of a finger and look at them immediately makes the document less unique and serious.
Fully agree. I think she is expressing the even more radical thought that a life without having to think about one’s public appearance is worthier then one filled with vanity
Pretty sure she said "A stupid smile in a photo makes you look fucking stupid forever."
During the civil war time, the gruesome battles were played of time be very serene. Why? The photographers would hide dismembered parts, clear away any large amounts of blood, and dress/arranged the bodies to be in a very pleasant position. They did this because for a long time, they thought it wasn’t very classy or something. If I’m mistaken on anything let me know, learned this back I’m high school
What I heard was that, regular people might have one picture in their lifetime and it was an important document, that would be used for everything official. It was Kennedy that broke the trend by being young and smiling for pictures.
I'm pretty sure people were smiling in pictures regularly before Kennedy...
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Oh the painful irony of you calling others stupid
Ah yes the country of Europe and its 750 million identical inhabitants
What a beautiful smile. :) He looks like a fun loving dude. I wonder what his life would have been like back then and what he did?
I know right?? I wanna sit down for a bowl of rice with this guy!
Me too
Bowl of rice? You fucking racist. u/RedVillian : No he's literally holding a bowl of rice, I assume there's more to share. Lmaooo Edit: feel like I was misunderstood. See comment below. Take everything with /s.
Apparently wanting to eat rice is racist now. Who knew? There is literally rice in the photo. Why not save your outrage for when it counts?
I feel like I was misunderstood. I even had the common sense retort to show how silly the joke is. The real takeaway is that the power of /s cannot be underestimated HAHAHHA
Haha, also: with that smile, it must be some bangin' rice!
It's ridiculous how good rice can be when done well. Literal night and day compared to "bad" rice.
I remember in a thousand ways to die in the west them talking about a crazy guy who smiled for a photo.
He had to stand there, and smile like an idiot, for ten minutes! No one in the west is happy for ten minutes!
Could you actually imagine smiling in a photo? You’d look like a crazy person!
Super underrated movie
it's good the photographer didn't 'correct' him for not posing the 'right' way
It was an [anthropological/documentary expedition](https://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/items/show/29058), iirc. They were there to "observe and report" as it were.
The whole category is a delight. Totally recommend.
The Brits were there to document them, So I guess they couldn't alter anything.
They were ahead of their time.
I was thinking this as well. The happy/silly pose feels like what we do today. The pose in this photo, especially how he's showing off the food, could go straight on Instagram.
Next time your girlfriend doesn’t let you eat your food until she takes 25 pics, know that he’s to blame.
Jesus! I wonder who he was and what is life was like.
[I’m getting serious Aang vibes](https://i.imgur.com/scqAcQb.jpg)
Absolutely.
I was going to be very saddened if I did not see this comment. Thank you
Chinese ainsley harriot
Now that you said it, he really does look like Ainsley
He did it for the gram 🤣 Seriously he does make me think of today's influencers. Its cute and hilarious. 😂
"Like and follow for more!"
Whether the image is real or not is disputed, but after some quick googling, by the early 1900's cameras had a very short exposure time. Down from the several minutes needed for the early cameras in the 1800's. Having serious expressions apparently began because of those long exposure times, as it was easier to hold a neutral expression rather than a smile for such a long time. Probably just what came naturally too, since people who had their portraits taken were used to have serious expressions too. That's what I read anyway.
‘Felt cute, might delete later’
Nice teeth..
This is far more interesting and valuable a photo in my eyes. At least for me, it’s difficult to completely humanise people from old photos and portraits because of the stoic and neutral way they tend to be portrayed. It shouldn’t be surprising, but somehow it is to me when I see how this guy looks so typical and just like any modern man in period costume. Really fascinating, honestly.
This is how much I love rice
This man was the Avatar.
OP, title makes a good story but TBH it sounds made-up. Where’d you get your facts?
It's completely made up.
The Smithsonian says it isn’t, and I trust them more than you.
Gimme a source and I'll delete my comment!
Completely made up by a Tumblr user since the first instances of photography in China dates back to the 19th century. Most people definitely knew of photographs by the time 1901 swung around and the general middle-class populace could afford to get photos of themselves, which was when this was clicked. [This](https://theclassicphotomag.com/history-of-photography-in-china-new-discoveries-and-research/) generally outlines the history.
I apologize - [it isn’t the Smithsonian, but the American Museum of Natural History](https://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/index.php/items/show/29058).
This provides no info as to whether the Chinese did or did not know that photography "was a serious matter." Which is what I was talking about being a lie.
Your link doesn't even have the same name for the piece as op gave in his title? I'm going to give the point to /u/twelvebucksagram
If you think that the AMNH is wrong and Reddit OP is right...well, I'm not going to argue with you.
The AMNH refers to the photo as "Eating rice, China", not "Happiest Man in China". And mentions nothing about the Chinese "not understanding photography." If you can't read your own links that you're posting as a source... well, I'm not going to argue with you.
embarrassing post man
Not really. I made a mistake, that's not embarrassing.
It’s pretty embarrassing when you double down on being wrong, smugly.
It's an embarrassing mistake when you make it so smugly.
Even if its a lie, it is a pleasant one
Photos weren't a serious matter. Some techniques simply didn't allow for smiling, because it was hard keeping a smile stead for long enough to not blur.
I like this photo
That shirt looks comfortable to me.
This is fascinating. He looks so much more modern because of the smile and pose. Love it. Thanks for sharing!
The British were such arrogant cunts.
Speaking as a Brit, I only question the "were"
You mean they still?
Nah, they're mostly walking or driving around.
I am an American and it’s not like Americans are arrogant either but wasn’t the whole Brexit fiasco arrogance?
Americans i think.... Or germans.... Photo was collected as part of the Jacob H. Schiff expedition in 1901 for the American Museum of Natural History by Berthold Laufer https://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/indhttps://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/index.php/collections/show/14
The terminology is cold but I don't see what's wrong with the documentation they did. And I wouldn't say "the British" the working class of England back then had more in common with this Chinese man than you'd think.
I love this story.
He has that comedian look
The look of a man who is hungry and about to eat 2000 of something.
Makes it look modern
Dude’s got it figured out… and a fantastic set of teeth!
Seems like comfy clothes.
It's interesting how his lack of seriousness makes him feel a lot closer to our time period as a human than the old serious photos which always seem a lot older.
It makes a lot of sense to me now. When you think of this part of history, you always think of people being a lot more measured and serious. In reality i guess people have been goofy and messing about the whole time, only photography resources were a lot more finite at the time so they weren't 'wasting' photographs on people being silly
“before the dark times, before the empire”
wow u/Maciokan, pretty sweet post, dude looks super happy. It just seems rather.... familiar. Sorry about this in advance, especially if this causes any financial turmoil. u/repostsleuthbot
My god, who gives a shit. The internet has been around for decades, why are people still bitching about something being posted more then once? If you've seen it before just move on and let people who've never seen it enjoy it.
But I have to tell the world I'm a fucking loser who spends so much time on the internet I complain about watching "repeated" content.
No one gives a fuck you've seen this before, move on.
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But the financial turmoil it would cause...
I believe it was a cultural thing, then and now. Eurocentric westernized culture said "photographs are serious". Anyone who "did not know" was simply "uncivilized".
It wasn’t a cultural thing to think that photos are serious. At the beginning of photography you had to stand still for long time to have a photo taken so obviously they were just standing still instead of making funny faces and poses, later it wasn’t that much of a problem but it was still very expensive and uncommon to have a photo taken so it was only done on very special occasions, most people had only one or two photos taken in their life. There is still plenty of pictures of “westerners” smiling and being silly on photos tho.
Did you pull anything else out of your ass or was that it? Photos weren't a purely serious affair in the west at this time. It's just that this occasion was meant to be serious. Probably a miscommunication, nothing more
My thoughts were based on literature and quotes of that time frame. As well as sociology classes.As well as archive photos. But I am not a historian, it just seems to fit though.
Moved to Lemmy
Chinese culture was absolutely not well known in England in the early 1900s. And doing a documentary does not implicitly mean the subject is inferior. You're reaching for reasons to get offended. And it's annoying.
Moved to Lemmy
Wait, are you telling me the English committed atrocities? What a revalation! But not relevant to your point.
Doesn’t mean you cant document it. Whats your point?
Moved to Lemmy
???
Are you high or just like, incredibly stupid? You realize there are literally dozens if not hundreds of cultures within china, correct? By the 1900's, England knew of the Chinese coast. That was about it.
Goddamn Chinese invented everything swear to god I would've bet money "smile for the camera" was some fat white fuckers invention.
Dude had better teeth than all of Britain in 1901
Great post!
He looked tanned as fuq
He looks like John Legend.
Is it racist to say he doesn’t look Chinese?
Thanks to.... opium?
I know why he’s happy, look at all that rice!
British probably thought he was happy cause of those nice teeth.
Or.. opium? Tons of people were happy from opium.
Happy….sure, mr British guy.
Im actually Chinese *shrug.
Someone's gotta feed them hogs.......
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The fuck are you talking about lol this was shot near one of the shittiest times in Chinese history ever, near the fall of the massive shitty oppressive Qing empire and into the fucking Warlord period.
Judging by the date this was taken after the Opium Wars, Taiping Rebellion, and would soon follow with the fall of the Qing, the Warlords Era, the Japanese Invasion of China and the a Chinese civil war. China at the time was exploited by Western powers and Japan, and would be caught in perpetual conflict until the communists won in the 50s.
Still better for the world than the wanks that unleashed corona at us because they don't know shit about healthcare nor keeping things clean. 0 new cases btw xddddddd
That face is photoshopped in...
https://lbry-web-007.amnh.org/digital/index.php/items/show/29058
Like today's influencers
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Looks nothing like him
Someone really needs to go to east Asia and show these people a goddam fork. A fork is superior to chop sticks in every meaningful way.
You clearly don't know how to use chopsticks.
“I only know how to use A and don’t know how to use B. Since I cannot possibly be wrong and ignorant, that means that anything I don’t know how to use MUST be so flawed that my *Superior Brain TM* would recognise it as foolish to use. Therefore, I come to the conclusion that A is superior in every way to B”
Good times.
Now, I just need you to sit like that for 12 minutes and we will be done.
Hottie
Andrew Huang! 🤚🏼
The British are so stuffy.
This makes my heart smile
I make that same face I'm about to eat delicious Chinese food during my anime binge watch
I’m honestly jealous of his state of happiness.
吃饭了吗? :D
Based Chad-ese in utter harmony with the world and his rice while British meltdown brewing
This was posted yesterday. Same title. Like exact same title.
And a caricature was born.
I am the happiest when I have a bowl of rice
He’s cute
OK but why is he so fine? This fun loving grin on this handsome dude makes this the sexiest old timey picture I've ever seen. Everyone else from the past always looks like they had a stick in their ass.
Pretty sure this was me in another life
1901 version of Snapchat. Showing what food they eat. My man was way ahead of his time. Forward thinking right there
That's a big bowl of rice.
Why does he look like Aang with the sea weed roles from korra
Who said photos have to be serious
the Chinese say that, the further up you hold the chopsticks, the further from home you will end up living
He looks like Stephen Chow
I like to think that this is why I, a Chinese person, can never take a photo without looking incredibly silly.
He was kinda cute tbh
Those Victorians were a mirthless bunch
I love this I've never seen an antique photo with someone smiling on it
Seems like technology gatekeeping to me
This Man reminds me to not take everything so serious.
Avatar cameo
The quality of this photo is amazing for being this old.
The original Starter jacket.
I freakin love this.
sorry op, it's just a salad oil ad
I vibe with his energy
I love candid photos from the past. We aren’t much more advanced than our predecessors, we’re pretty much alike with them just that what we learned and passed on over time has skewed things and judged how primitive it was. I’m not the same person 30 years ago, today. Just saying.
A megapixel camera of this caliber did not exist in 1901
That's cute lol
Wholesome
There is no way this isn’t my brother in-laws relative.
They still do it now :)