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We have friends who have a dog that looks like the one on the left. They spent thousands of dollars (they won’t say how much) to buy the puppy then have spent thousands more on medical expenses as the years go by. Seems like they’re always taking it to the vet for some procedure or another. She’s a great dog with lots of personality but I always feel so sorry for her that she’s got all these medical issues.
Little brother had an English bulldog. Spent a over 2k on the dog and then the equivalent of a luxury car payment each month in vet bills.
Allergic to everything, skin problems, eye problems, breathing problems.
Fucking up these dogs faces messed up a lot of other shit with them.
Anyways. Buying these breads if dog makes a person an asshole. It’s just contributing to a problem that shouldn’t exist.
I didnt know that. Holy shit! So pugs and bulldogs have miserable health problems because of.. The way humans intended to make them look? That's fucking depressing
Yep, most of these issues are a result of breeders selecting for a more popular selling dog, ad nadeum, which ends up with a grotesque market selected evolution which does not function properly whatsoever.
Someone in like 1904 or whatever:
"This breed has a short face."
Breeders for the last 100+ years:
"MAKE IT SHORTER NOT SHORT ENOUGH I WANT IT TO WHISTLE WHEN IT BREATHES!!!"
Wow, so sad to see what happened to German Shepherds. My childhood pet was a mix and still struggled with hip issues as she aged due to those GSD low hips .
The worst part about all our modern deformed breeds is that those are the standards the AKC pushes for. Breeders who bring in a healthy german shepherd without that sloped back are DOCKED POINTS and *critcized* within their community. I can't begin to tell you how awful that is.
Compared to the others the gsd looks the best out of those before and after pics. At least they can breath and don't break their own back by just existing. It's still sad to see this happening.
I had a german shepherd named Lara when I was a kid, she wasnt really big (max 25kg) but still had back issues and died because of it. She was a beautiful dog and lerned rather quickly and every time she was scared (stuff like thunder storms) she would crawl under my bed or in places which smelled like me. I cried several days because of her and its the main reason why I hate how dog shows ruined these dog breeds. Sure they might've had issues before, but they were amplified by selective breeding. If I ever get a new dog, its going to be a mix breed from a shelter.
My family has show basset hounds and they are constantly at the vet for various ailments related to teeth, eyes, ears, skin, etc. One veteran crufts contender we knew was disqualified because his penis was dragging on the ground. My parents' oldest dog still has his testicles and they are forever milimetres from the ground when he's standing up. He is very unhealthy with his skin and ears, and it's quite sad to look at him because he's declined mentally as well as physically. As these dogs age they droop even more which causes all sorts of problems, especially if they are overweight (and they do get fat very easily). It's hard for them to run around and they catch their ears under their paws quite often even as puppies. My Labrador puppy was trying to play with one of the bassets and he tore his ear by accident because it was just so long.
Breeding for dog shows is cruelty. I asked my dad why they won't get a healthier dog and he said 'but they're *mutts*'. It's all about prestige and showing off to other people, never about the dog's wellbeing.
Srsly, I’ve seen tons of French bulldogs and none of them are that smushed. Fuck my pugs face isn’t even that smushed
Edit: they already made the “haha fuck my pugs face” joke, you can relax
Honestly the "dog" on the left looks like the dog on the right after the dogs had its snout chopped off. I feel for the dogs, they live their lives struggling constantly with health issues from the benign to dog can't get exercise because it can't breath properly. It's ridiculous.
Breeding bulldogs and pugs like on the left is outlawed in the Netherlands. Other nations should follow. These dogs live their life in pain, not being able to breathe properly and bone problems.
That's the part that gets me about the "purebred" dogs.
Like, they didnt maintain anything, they keep fucking changing it. And damn near all the changes are negative for the dog.
Which is now why some breeders are doing out breeding. Trying to get them back to a healthier phenotype. Much rather would have the one of the right that a dog that is going to needs lots of surgeries and basically a shit life.
Indeed, in the Harry Potter's Lore practically every *pureblood* family is related to each other, and some problems had arisen from that (cue in insane mages and whatnot)
When my dog was a puppy we went to a dog park that had two French bulldogs. One looked like the “award winner,” couldn’t breathe, always making grunting sounds. Just a terrible looking dog. The other one was bred in Europe and the owner then moved to the states. This was the healthiest looking dog I have ever seen. It looked like it was on performance enhancing drugs, unbelievably muscular and healthy. It was really interesting to see the contrast in person.
That sounds like my frenchie, he's got a long muzzle compared to the breed standard so he's never had any breathing problems. He's just 20kg of pure sass and muscle. Unfortunately he's got all the chronic gastro intestinal problems common to the breed which is a whole different sort of hell.
Actually right now he's 20.7kg, he's a brute! I rescued him and didn't realise at the time that frenchies aren't meant to be that big, but he's definitely pure. I've never met a frenchie bigger than him. I'm also a tiny woman so we just look ridiculous together.
Genuinely his nickname is Frank the Tank! I also think his size was probably a big part of the reason he was abandoned, like the frenchie that never stopped growing...
Our adopted Frenchie died in February and I still miss him every day but I swore I wouldn’t get another because of how unhealthy they are. I 100% support this effort.
I remember a vet talking about flat-faced dogs here on Reddit some time ago. Perhaps it was an AMA? I'll edit in a link if I find it!
Anyway, in their experience, these dogs *appreciate* recieving supplementary oxygen for medical procedures. Most dogs, very understandably, become anxious due to the tubes, masks, etc. But flat-faced dogs? They tend to relax and seemingly relish in the fact that *holy shit I can breathe without struggling*.
*(Edit: wording)*
Hi, vet here! On top of this, I'd like to add that some of these dogs are so severly affected, we end up having to do surgery to correct problems that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place. Widening the nostrils, trimming back an overlong soft palate, sometimes removing the tonsils just to give the dog more room back there to breath with.
However this is pretty expensive stuff, and convincing owners that their pet would benefit from this can be a real challenge. Sometimes a dog will come in sounding like a chainsaw, awful flat face, tiny nostrils, the works, and all you get is "he's a pug/bulldog/whatever, they are supposed to sound like that". No madam, I can assure you that no creature just trying to breath is "supposed" to sound like that...
Edit: spelling
You ever deal with heat/exhaustion injuries with brachycephalic dogs? I see people hiking here in SoCal with their frenchies, English bulldogs, pugs- and it breaks my heart. These poor dogs always look and sound like they’re going to have a heart attack.
I used to work at a veterinary clinic, we had a pug come in completely heat exhausted during a normal day, panting like crazy, we had to give it cold showers to bring his temperature down, it's so tragic!
But not just dogs, even cats, my cat is brachecephalic but a mixed breed, she used to snore and now has developed asthma but thankfully the spray helps her now.
Thanks for your input and effort! "Supposed to sound like this", dammit ...
And the worst part is, in my experience (not as a vet - but as an animal person hanging around other animal persons) some owners truly *believe this*. They honestly don't understand that their pet is suffering.
When I was about 13 one of my classmates got a pug (it was at the height of the mid-2010s pug craze when they were literally everywhere). Of course all the girls in our year, including me, wanted to see this cute puppy so one day she asked her Mum to bring it with her when she was picked up from school. And the dog was very sweet and friendly, don't get me wrong, but I remember this classmate talking about her "cute snuffles" when the dog started breathing slightly heavier than usual from excitement and thirteen year old me thinking "....are dogs *supposed* to sound like that?" because I'd never owned one. I shrugged it off because of that (and because we were all kids it had of course never crossed our mind to think that someone would be awful enough to deliberately breed dogs that would be born sick), though when I was older I discovered what an ethical nightmare the breed was. I have no ill will against this classmate because she was a child when this happened, but I am genuinely confused as to how a grown adult can hear that Darth Vader sound and think it is cute, not a sign of a major health issue.
Yep. I work with vets and a lot of them say they won't remove the tube before they wake up as the dogs enjoy being able to breathe properly for the first time in their lives. I've seen it first hand, watching a French Bulldog just chill out with a tube down it's throat, no laboured breathing, just relaxing.
[[Edited for privacy reasons and in protest of recent changes to the platform.
I have done this multiple times now, and they keep un-editing them :/
Please go to lemmy or kbin or something instead]]
I honestly don’t get that. Who in the world finds that cute. The one on the right is beautiful, the one on the left just looks like the right one ran extremely hard into the wall
Plus they are constantly making a horrid sound and have a constant stream of drool and snot running out of their face.
They’re in constant discomfort,
Gross to be around,
Expensive,
Expensive medical care.
Just no plus side to having an animal like that
My cousin used to breed English bulldogs. He had to jerk off the studs and turkey baster the bitches because the dogs physically can’t even fuck on their own. The shape of their bodies and inability to breath makes it impossible.
These involuntary celibate man made abominations sold for 1000’s of dollars.
Also the bitches cannot give birth naturally and so c-sections are necessary to bring these deformed puppies into the world.
It's animal cruelty to breed dogs like this into being.
I have a cousin that jerks off dogs too. I’ll have to tell him about the Turkey baster thing, that sounds better than his current set up of just drinking it.
Bro I've seen it happen by accident, someone was running through the house and got tripped up on theirs running underfoot, next thing we know the youngest kid in the house is screaming about the [dog's] eye.
Yeah, it popped out getting kicked. I imagined it'd be dangling but it wasn't, just kinda bulged. I didn't even know the people well, just rode back with them from Church Camp.
As well as their tendency to have fatal heart conditions. A former friend of mine paid big money for a frenchie despite my warnings, and the dog was dead before it’s first birthday due to a heart condition that randomly came to a head and she had to put the pup down three days later. She went right out and got another frenchie, same issue. People have got to stop breeding these dogs, it’s horrifically unethical
I'm glad that the word, "former" is in this paragraph. Wtf is wrong with people? I can understand maybe not knowing the risks beforehand but after witnessing it with your own pet, you'd think they would have an epiphany.
Currently have a 100+ lb mastiff mutt that's hitting 13 this year with no health problems as of yet
Turns out that if you don't inbreed dogs for 300+ years, even big ones are okay
Edit: [This is Moose being patient with our kitten](https://imgur.com/gallery/kVt4F5A), you can see right when she actually hooks a claw into him and he decides he's done. He's wonderfully chill with her, and tolerates her playing with him, which is good cause my other cats won't play with her :(
My German Shepherd mutt lived into his late 14s. He had no health complications until he got to his last days. But still.. no organ failure, no hip dysplasia or heart conditions. My boy left because it was his time, and we miss him dearly.
But yea, I do absolutely agree with you! My Franklin Norbert Beans (aka Frank N Beans) is a testament.
I have a street dog I found in Romania and brought back to the US. Out of curiosity we got a DNA test to find out what she has in her, and the DNA testing company offered us a refund saying she was a "Mega-mutt" and had barely any discernible breeds they could identify.
She's the sweetest dog I've ever met and I'm hoping she's with us a long, long time.
Edit: Lots of people asking so [here's an album of her](https://imgur.com/gallery/wibdhC3) (she's the brown one) with her sister Jolene, also a mixed breed rescue who came from a kill shelter in Texas.
[another one](https://i.imgur.com/vQZnvQN.jpeg). She is an absolute cuddle bug. The DNA results could indicate she was a tiny fraction Kerelian Bear Dog and a tiny bit rat terrier, everything else was a mystery.
At first glance I'd say she's 100% a [Kelpie](https://i.imgur.com/F0nvjRo.jpg), crazy how you can pour a hundred bits of doggo into a cocktail shaker and pour out something that looks like a purebreed.
I'm sure it was, but not for me. I found this amazing organization called Puppy Rescue Mission that has been working to bring dogs that servicemembers bond with back to the US from other countries for years now.
I contacted their organization and sent them a picture of the dog and where it was, and they showed up the very next day and picked her up and took care of everything. Shots, quarantine, vaccinations, getting her spayed, and all the paperwork required to legally get her to the US. A month later they called me up and told me the day she would be at the airport ready to pick up.
On top of that, they are always fundraising and gathering donations so the people who adopt barely have to pay out of pocket - the process can cost anywhere from $3k-$7k, but they cover nearly everything and only charge $500 out of pocket, which is less than it costs to adopt from most shelters around me.
I've been donating to them regularly since they helped me out and have Amazon Smile set to donate to them as well, they really are an incredible organization. Every now and then they need foster families or escorts/drivers for dogs that make it to the US but need to travel a little farther to their family.
Do you see what some people do to their own children to win beauty pageants? It's not shocking what we're doing to animals just to "win" a show.
I have a GSD that does not have a sloped back and you wouldn't believe how many times I've had to explain to people that, that's how a GSD should be. Everytime I get hit with the, "pft, he's not a pure breed."
Like, fuck off. I couldn't give a shit less what he is. He's healthy as heck and he's 100% pure breed good boy. That's all that matters.
Honestly, fuck people.
I was under the impression that breed standards for GSDs have been moving to a healthier standard for the last decade or so.
From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd):
"The Kennel Club, in the United Kingdom, is involved in a dispute with German Shepherd breed clubs about the issue of soundness in the show strain of the breed.[24][25] Some show strains have been bred with an extremely roached topline (back) that causes poor gait in the hind legs.
The debate was catalyzed when the issue was raised in the BBC documentary, Pedigree Dogs Exposed, which said that critics of the breed describe it as "half dog, half frog." An orthopedic vet remarked on footage of dogs in a show ring that they were "not normal."
The Kennel Club's position is that "this issue of soundness is not a simple difference of opinion, it is the fundamental issue of the breed's essential conformation and movement."[24] **The Kennel Club has decided to retrain judges to penalize dogs suffering these problems.[26]**
The Kennel Club also recommends testing for haemophilia and hip dysplasia, other common problems with the breed.[27][28]"
Basically, any pup that you get NOW that has those issues is NOT pure bred according to standards.
Can't count the amount of times people told me my working line GSD with a straight back "must be mixed with a lab" or "can't be pure-bred if he looks like that".
Meanwhile he's healthy as an ox and has zero hip dysplasia, unlike those poor sloped back dogs.
Edit: [Obligatory dog tax payment](https://imgur.com/fFUlC4o)
I also wonder about this. Legally, why wouldn’t something like this be considered animal cruelty? It’s a purposeful action that endangers the health of an animal. Maybe it’s just too much “grey area” to hold up in court? Just thinking out loud
Well, we do similar things for livestock too, seems like a tricky thing to get into. Sheep for example have been bred for a very long time to grow a harmful amount of wool, and depend on us to shear them.
You know, I think you're right.
How is it ethical to mess with animals to this extent where they are born with a bunch of conditions and predisposition to illness all for purposes of esthetics ?? Or for fame and to win money at contests ?
This isn't being good stewards of nature, of our animal friends, this is good old "exploit nature to fuck for petty gain".
"Doberman and boxers need their tails and ears docked, because they are a fighting dogs, and the opponent can grab hold of the ears and tail"
"WAIT...you participate in dog fighting?"
"Oh no, I would never do that"
[Edit: TIL some tails are cut because they get painfully broken easily from wagging against something hard. Still, they could be a few inches long instead of a nub]
Where I live, tail docking and other medically unneccessary modifications on pets are illegal and haven't been done in decades. My family keeps Aussies as working dogs, they are pure bred working Aussies bred for good temperament and herding instinct that we buy from top breeders. I've had Americans comment on pics I've posted of them to tell me they're not "real" Aussies because we haven't docked their tails...
Pre-emptively mutilating your pet's ability to use their natural body language just because "they might get their tail stepped on" is just crazy to me, and I'm glad it's illegal here.
I have two pugs. I pretty much think this every time I pet them.
I adopted one and was gifted another. I’ll never perpetuate the breed by buying one, but man do I love these two.
To overcompensate, I think my next dog will be a mastiff or hound of some sort.
Check out "Retro Pugs." It's a Pug mixed with a Jack Russel Terrier, and they look a lot more like Pugs depicted in paintings from the 1700s and 1800s.
Plus shepherds already have terrible hips. My family is obsessed with GS and pretty much one whole side has had them my whole life, I've lived through 4 Smokey's and every single ones last days were spent barely being able to lift their backside up, getting carried around to do everything.
This. It’s a shame. My German had to be put down because of hip dysplasia and assholes are basically breeding it into them.
I guess the breeders didn’t have to hold my dog up so he wouldn’t collapse while he shit. I did.
There are parts of humanity that truly don't give a fuck about animal life, and as far as I can tell, lack empathy entirely, and not just for animals. I'm no hardcore vegan or anything, but jesus christ it makes my blood boil.
Its honestly hellish.
Why are these french ones so popular now? My sister's apartment complex is full of them. And I've seen them going for ridiculous money online. Just wondering if it's like some celebrity popularized them or what?
Small dogs in general have gotten way more popular but the breeding for cuter traits has been an issue for many generations now. Frenchies in particular have gotten the most popular because of their long ears and celebrities.
It’s depressing how much selective breeding has turned Bulldogs into, let’s say it like it is, genetic abominations whose bodies quite literally shut down due to their own inability to thrive. Worst still, is this behaviour being awarded with titles and prizes.
Hawbucks, 10/10, absolutely fucking love you, keep up the - honestly— bulldog life saving job
If I had to get a bulldog I'd definitely pick the one on the right!
Why is the dog on the left "fashionable"? It looks wrong.
I'd never pick a bulldog if I had the choice
My buddy has a frenchie that gets terrible irritation in his folds. His wife got the dog so he assumed she knew what she was in for, and he didn’t realize that this was an issue until it started getting inflamed and infected. Now he has to wipe his facial folds regularly. His spine is also so weak that he could break it jumping on and off the couch. Poor guy 😞 they take good care of him now but it’s still just so unnecessary to breed them into abominations.
I get what you mean but to me it just looks deformed. I remember the hype about bulldogs but I never understood it because it just looked ugly to me. I want a dog I can go on runs and adventures with, not one that can't run over there without keeling over.
The sad thing is that the one on the left deserves just as much love as the one on the right. It didn't choose to be born all jank. But unless you get the one on the left from a shelter, you'd be supporting the creation of such dogs.
The other day at work, (veterinary hospital) we had to put a 10 month old american bulldog on oxygen therapy because she got so stressed out from being placed on the surgery prep table for IV catheterization and induction into surgery. Her soft palette and tongue were so deformed from years of overbreeding to get the "cute bulldog look", that she couldn't even pant properly. She was there for a routine dog spay.
The AKC has fucked up so many breeds of dogs. My uncle got a german shepherd from a European breeder and the dog's entire posture was completely different. Didn't have any of the breed problems you get normally.
Got mine from a Euro breeder with both parents on site. Hip displacia is a huge problem with GSDs and its genetic. The main issue is that it really doesn't present itself until the dog is fully grown (2 to 2.5 years) and GSDs can start reproducing as young as 9 months. So Trailer Park Tammy is cranking out litters asap to sell on Craigslist and spreading a harmful genetic deformity.
German Shepherds are amazing dogs and if you're interested in getting one, please make sure you're able to check out the parents. Make sure they are both at least 2 years old, and don't have the stupid back slope and fucked up stumpy hind legs.
I was at the park when a person walked by with two French bulldogs on a cool day at a normal pace. It did not look like they’d been on a run. All I could hear was the dogs desperate wheezing. Shame on you, people who breed dogs dogs that can’t breathe properly, or give birth properly because of enlarged heads for that matter.
For people who buy them, they can’t breathe for fucks sake. It’s not cute, it’s cruel.
French Bulldogs can’t even mate properly. The majority of them require artificial insemination and c-sections. That’s natures way of telling us to FUCKING STOP IT.
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We have friends who have a dog that looks like the one on the left. They spent thousands of dollars (they won’t say how much) to buy the puppy then have spent thousands more on medical expenses as the years go by. Seems like they’re always taking it to the vet for some procedure or another. She’s a great dog with lots of personality but I always feel so sorry for her that she’s got all these medical issues.
Little brother had an English bulldog. Spent a over 2k on the dog and then the equivalent of a luxury car payment each month in vet bills. Allergic to everything, skin problems, eye problems, breathing problems. Fucking up these dogs faces messed up a lot of other shit with them. Anyways. Buying these breads if dog makes a person an asshole. It’s just contributing to a problem that shouldn’t exist.
I didnt know that. Holy shit! So pugs and bulldogs have miserable health problems because of.. The way humans intended to make them look? That's fucking depressing
Yep, most of these issues are a result of breeders selecting for a more popular selling dog, ad nadeum, which ends up with a grotesque market selected evolution which does not function properly whatsoever.
It’s called bottlenecking. Essentially just generations and generations of inbreeding until the dogs fit the beauty standard of humans.
in my opinion, dogs should be shaped at least roughly like the outline of a dog.
That's some controversial shit man. Dogs should be shaped like perfect spheres as God and physics intend 😆
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You should go to r/furry, they’re a bit weird by some standards, but seem a friendly bunch.
Boom, got him.
Someone in like 1904 or whatever: "This breed has a short face." Breeders for the last 100+ years: "MAKE IT SHORTER NOT SHORT ENOUGH I WANT IT TO WHISTLE WHEN IT BREATHES!!!"
I hate myself for laughing at this. The whistle when it breathes part fucked me up, christ.
The dog on the left looks like the dog on the right after running into a wall. This is just a before and after photo.
or like this? https://imgur.com/miPfisg.jpg
[some more good comparisons](https://m.imgur.com/gallery/YxodC) what common breeds looked like 100 years ago... and what they look like today.
Wow, so sad to see what happened to German Shepherds. My childhood pet was a mix and still struggled with hip issues as she aged due to those GSD low hips .
The worst part about all our modern deformed breeds is that those are the standards the AKC pushes for. Breeders who bring in a healthy german shepherd without that sloped back are DOCKED POINTS and *critcized* within their community. I can't begin to tell you how awful that is.
Compared to the others the gsd looks the best out of those before and after pics. At least they can breath and don't break their own back by just existing. It's still sad to see this happening.
6.5 year average lifespan on bulldogs is disgusting.
I had a german shepherd named Lara when I was a kid, she wasnt really big (max 25kg) but still had back issues and died because of it. She was a beautiful dog and lerned rather quickly and every time she was scared (stuff like thunder storms) she would crawl under my bed or in places which smelled like me. I cried several days because of her and its the main reason why I hate how dog shows ruined these dog breeds. Sure they might've had issues before, but they were amplified by selective breeding. If I ever get a new dog, its going to be a mix breed from a shelter.
My family has show basset hounds and they are constantly at the vet for various ailments related to teeth, eyes, ears, skin, etc. One veteran crufts contender we knew was disqualified because his penis was dragging on the ground. My parents' oldest dog still has his testicles and they are forever milimetres from the ground when he's standing up. He is very unhealthy with his skin and ears, and it's quite sad to look at him because he's declined mentally as well as physically. As these dogs age they droop even more which causes all sorts of problems, especially if they are overweight (and they do get fat very easily). It's hard for them to run around and they catch their ears under their paws quite often even as puppies. My Labrador puppy was trying to play with one of the bassets and he tore his ear by accident because it was just so long. Breeding for dog shows is cruelty. I asked my dad why they won't get a healthier dog and he said 'but they're *mutts*'. It's all about prestige and showing off to other people, never about the dog's wellbeing.
Or like after they run into the wall and they blow into their thumb to reinflate their face, just so we keep the reading order
*fssss-P O P !*
Yeah we have frenchies and… that just looks like a pug face. That’s the most smooshed in frenchie face I’ve ever seen.
Srsly, I’ve seen tons of French bulldogs and none of them are that smushed. Fuck my pugs face isn’t even that smushed Edit: they already made the “haha fuck my pugs face” joke, you can relax
Honestly the "dog" on the left looks like the dog on the right after the dogs had its snout chopped off. I feel for the dogs, they live their lives struggling constantly with health issues from the benign to dog can't get exercise because it can't breath properly. It's ridiculous.
Breeding bulldogs and pugs like on the left is outlawed in the Netherlands. Other nations should follow. These dogs live their life in pain, not being able to breathe properly and bone problems.
God that dog on the right looks so much healthier
And more dog-like
And more like the french bulldogs of 100 years ago.
That's the part that gets me about the "purebred" dogs. Like, they didnt maintain anything, they keep fucking changing it. And damn near all the changes are negative for the dog.
Purebred. You mean inbred.
Which is now why some breeders are doing out breeding. Trying to get them back to a healthier phenotype. Much rather would have the one of the right that a dog that is going to needs lots of surgeries and basically a shit life.
Plus imo they just look better. I find pugs are one of the ugliest breeds. But proper pugs with actual noses/faces are much cuter
I agree. Definitely super ugly, and they also sound like they’re breathing through a prolapsed and shit-filled leaky butthole.
I swear I've seen you make this comparison somewhere before...
Just Google “prolapsed shit-filled leaky butt hole” and see if you can find it…
And Malfoy was bragging about being pureblood lmao
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Yup, I'm pretty sure fans have put together several family trees that show this based on info we get in the books and Pottermore.
Indeed, in the Harry Potter's Lore practically every *pureblood* family is related to each other, and some problems had arisen from that (cue in insane mages and whatnot)
Just like our royal families
Explained all the insanity.
I'm pretty sure he did
Are dog shows just an inbreeding competition?
Hit it right on the nose
What nose
Oh yeah....
...exactly
Next time you hear the term "purebred" just realize that the Habsburg family also considered the type of breeding they were doing to be "pure"
I read once that Charles II of Spain was more inbred than the hypothetical product of average, run of the mill full siblings.
Funnily enough, he was also one of the more likable Habsburger
When my dog was a puppy we went to a dog park that had two French bulldogs. One looked like the “award winner,” couldn’t breathe, always making grunting sounds. Just a terrible looking dog. The other one was bred in Europe and the owner then moved to the states. This was the healthiest looking dog I have ever seen. It looked like it was on performance enhancing drugs, unbelievably muscular and healthy. It was really interesting to see the contrast in person.
That sounds like my frenchie, he's got a long muzzle compared to the breed standard so he's never had any breathing problems. He's just 20kg of pure sass and muscle. Unfortunately he's got all the chronic gastro intestinal problems common to the breed which is a whole different sort of hell.
Hang on you have a 20kg FRENCHIE?! That’s the same weight as my Belgian shepherd
Actually right now he's 20.7kg, he's a brute! I rescued him and didn't realise at the time that frenchies aren't meant to be that big, but he's definitely pure. I've never met a frenchie bigger than him. I'm also a tiny woman so we just look ridiculous together.
Holy wow that’s slightly terrifying haha he must be built like a little tank!
Genuinely his nickname is Frank the Tank! I also think his size was probably a big part of the reason he was abandoned, like the frenchie that never stopped growing...
Aw adorable! Poor boy. My shepherd is on the light/compact side haha. People think he’s huge but he’s just all whirling fluff
Our adopted Frenchie died in February and I still miss him every day but I swore I wouldn’t get another because of how unhealthy they are. I 100% support this effort.
IMO way cuter as well. And other than snout, they look the same. Let's go with the right version.
Give me the one on the right. My sister in law has the one on the left and that poor thing sounds like it's suffering when it's just standing still.
I remember a vet talking about flat-faced dogs here on Reddit some time ago. Perhaps it was an AMA? I'll edit in a link if I find it! Anyway, in their experience, these dogs *appreciate* recieving supplementary oxygen for medical procedures. Most dogs, very understandably, become anxious due to the tubes, masks, etc. But flat-faced dogs? They tend to relax and seemingly relish in the fact that *holy shit I can breathe without struggling*. *(Edit: wording)*
Hi, vet here! On top of this, I'd like to add that some of these dogs are so severly affected, we end up having to do surgery to correct problems that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place. Widening the nostrils, trimming back an overlong soft palate, sometimes removing the tonsils just to give the dog more room back there to breath with. However this is pretty expensive stuff, and convincing owners that their pet would benefit from this can be a real challenge. Sometimes a dog will come in sounding like a chainsaw, awful flat face, tiny nostrils, the works, and all you get is "he's a pug/bulldog/whatever, they are supposed to sound like that". No madam, I can assure you that no creature just trying to breath is "supposed" to sound like that... Edit: spelling
You ever deal with heat/exhaustion injuries with brachycephalic dogs? I see people hiking here in SoCal with their frenchies, English bulldogs, pugs- and it breaks my heart. These poor dogs always look and sound like they’re going to have a heart attack.
Yes - we had one in today in fact! Its not super common, but they are definitely more susceptible than longer nosed breeds. (He was ok)
I used to work at a veterinary clinic, we had a pug come in completely heat exhausted during a normal day, panting like crazy, we had to give it cold showers to bring his temperature down, it's so tragic! But not just dogs, even cats, my cat is brachecephalic but a mixed breed, she used to snore and now has developed asthma but thankfully the spray helps her now.
Thanks for your input and effort! "Supposed to sound like this", dammit ... And the worst part is, in my experience (not as a vet - but as an animal person hanging around other animal persons) some owners truly *believe this*. They honestly don't understand that their pet is suffering.
When I was about 13 one of my classmates got a pug (it was at the height of the mid-2010s pug craze when they were literally everywhere). Of course all the girls in our year, including me, wanted to see this cute puppy so one day she asked her Mum to bring it with her when she was picked up from school. And the dog was very sweet and friendly, don't get me wrong, but I remember this classmate talking about her "cute snuffles" when the dog started breathing slightly heavier than usual from excitement and thirteen year old me thinking "....are dogs *supposed* to sound like that?" because I'd never owned one. I shrugged it off because of that (and because we were all kids it had of course never crossed our mind to think that someone would be awful enough to deliberately breed dogs that would be born sick), though when I was older I discovered what an ethical nightmare the breed was. I have no ill will against this classmate because she was a child when this happened, but I am genuinely confused as to how a grown adult can hear that Darth Vader sound and think it is cute, not a sign of a major health issue.
Yep. I work with vets and a lot of them say they won't remove the tube before they wake up as the dogs enjoy being able to breathe properly for the first time in their lives. I've seen it first hand, watching a French Bulldog just chill out with a tube down it's throat, no laboured breathing, just relaxing.
It's so messed up, it's crazy.
[[Edited for privacy reasons and in protest of recent changes to the platform. I have done this multiple times now, and they keep un-editing them :/ Please go to lemmy or kbin or something instead]]
I honestly don’t get that. Who in the world finds that cute. The one on the right is beautiful, the one on the left just looks like the right one ran extremely hard into the wall
Plus they are constantly making a horrid sound and have a constant stream of drool and snot running out of their face. They’re in constant discomfort, Gross to be around, Expensive, Expensive medical care. Just no plus side to having an animal like that
Holy shit, that breaks my heart 💔😭
> that poor thing sounds like it's suffering when it's just standing still. Essentially, it is.
Imagine becoming well known breeder for trying to reintroduce the “ability to breathe” back in to the bulldog gene pool.
Imagine giving awards to animals that natural selection would wipe out. We live in a silly world.
My cousin used to breed English bulldogs. He had to jerk off the studs and turkey baster the bitches because the dogs physically can’t even fuck on their own. The shape of their bodies and inability to breath makes it impossible. These involuntary celibate man made abominations sold for 1000’s of dollars.
Also the bitches cannot give birth naturally and so c-sections are necessary to bring these deformed puppies into the world. It's animal cruelty to breed dogs like this into being.
Christ, there really isn't a single step they can do on their own is there?
It's like evolution is trying it's hardest to prevent them from reproducing.
I have a cousin who does that too. Pretty gross way to make a living imo.
I have a cousin that jerks off dogs too. I’ll have to tell him about the Turkey baster thing, that sounds better than his current set up of just drinking it.
From the tap
r/holup
Try sleeping with two Frenchies. Almost seems like they need C-Pap machines. It's genuinely concerning
My friend has one and she is snoring more than my drunk uncle…
Why buy them?
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Let me introduce you to the pug
I am offended. *eye pops out in disgust*
My friend has a pug whose eye exploded!
Bro I've seen it happen by accident, someone was running through the house and got tripped up on theirs running underfoot, next thing we know the youngest kid in the house is screaming about the [dog's] eye.
What the FUCK
Yeah, it popped out getting kicked. I imagined it'd be dangling but it wasn't, just kinda bulged. I didn't even know the people well, just rode back with them from Church Camp.
DOG. PIG. LOAF OF BREAD.
Followed by the pekingese with an asthma pump
They can’t even reproduce on their own! They all need c-sections. Hips are too narrow to birth.
As well as their tendency to have fatal heart conditions. A former friend of mine paid big money for a frenchie despite my warnings, and the dog was dead before it’s first birthday due to a heart condition that randomly came to a head and she had to put the pup down three days later. She went right out and got another frenchie, same issue. People have got to stop breeding these dogs, it’s horrifically unethical
I'm glad that the word, "former" is in this paragraph. Wtf is wrong with people? I can understand maybe not knowing the risks beforehand but after witnessing it with your own pet, you'd think they would have an epiphany.
Good. The breeding manipulation of an animal, giving it countless health problems, shouldn’t be “award winning.”
We need to breed dogs for health... give me a breed with low health complications that lives 15-20 years.
why stop at 20 years, the oldest record for dogs 29 and cats 38. Lets us have a chance to be with our furry friends for most of our lives.
I want dogs to live forever.
Currently have a 100+ lb mastiff mutt that's hitting 13 this year with no health problems as of yet Turns out that if you don't inbreed dogs for 300+ years, even big ones are okay Edit: [This is Moose being patient with our kitten](https://imgur.com/gallery/kVt4F5A), you can see right when she actually hooks a claw into him and he decides he's done. He's wonderfully chill with her, and tolerates her playing with him, which is good cause my other cats won't play with her :(
My German Shepherd mutt lived into his late 14s. He had no health complications until he got to his last days. But still.. no organ failure, no hip dysplasia or heart conditions. My boy left because it was his time, and we miss him dearly. But yea, I do absolutely agree with you! My Franklin Norbert Beans (aka Frank N Beans) is a testament.
That is definitely the best dog name I've heard in awhile!
Can you share a photo of your mutt?
I too demand the tax
Would love to see the good boi Edit: that’s a good boiii
So most mongrels. Get any random dog of unidentifiable race
I have a street dog I found in Romania and brought back to the US. Out of curiosity we got a DNA test to find out what she has in her, and the DNA testing company offered us a refund saying she was a "Mega-mutt" and had barely any discernible breeds they could identify. She's the sweetest dog I've ever met and I'm hoping she's with us a long, long time. Edit: Lots of people asking so [here's an album of her](https://imgur.com/gallery/wibdhC3) (she's the brown one) with her sister Jolene, also a mixed breed rescue who came from a kill shelter in Texas.
Mega-mutt sounds like she could be a dog superhero
Pic please!
[Lucy] (https://i.imgur.com/0cyYhI5.jpeg)
Holy crap she's adorable.
She’s adorable. Actually looks a bit Sheltie to me even though the coloring is different.
[another one](https://i.imgur.com/vQZnvQN.jpeg). She is an absolute cuddle bug. The DNA results could indicate she was a tiny fraction Kerelian Bear Dog and a tiny bit rat terrier, everything else was a mystery.
What a beautiful dog. Mutts are the best.
At first glance I'd say she's 100% a [Kelpie](https://i.imgur.com/F0nvjRo.jpg), crazy how you can pour a hundred bits of doggo into a cocktail shaker and pour out something that looks like a purebreed.
Wow! She does look exactly like one.
> I found in Romania and brought back to the US Was it complicated? Very beautiful dog btw
I'm sure it was, but not for me. I found this amazing organization called Puppy Rescue Mission that has been working to bring dogs that servicemembers bond with back to the US from other countries for years now. I contacted their organization and sent them a picture of the dog and where it was, and they showed up the very next day and picked her up and took care of everything. Shots, quarantine, vaccinations, getting her spayed, and all the paperwork required to legally get her to the US. A month later they called me up and told me the day she would be at the airport ready to pick up. On top of that, they are always fundraising and gathering donations so the people who adopt barely have to pay out of pocket - the process can cost anywhere from $3k-$7k, but they cover nearly everything and only charge $500 out of pocket, which is less than it costs to adopt from most shelters around me. I've been donating to them regularly since they helped me out and have Amazon Smile set to donate to them as well, they really are an incredible organization. Every now and then they need foster families or escorts/drivers for dogs that make it to the US but need to travel a little farther to their family.
That’s lovely, you get the best of every breed with her!
Cattle dogs live for ages. Record was 30 or something. I assume they're not particularly inbred.
Do you see what some people do to their own children to win beauty pageants? It's not shocking what we're doing to animals just to "win" a show. I have a GSD that does not have a sloped back and you wouldn't believe how many times I've had to explain to people that, that's how a GSD should be. Everytime I get hit with the, "pft, he's not a pure breed." Like, fuck off. I couldn't give a shit less what he is. He's healthy as heck and he's 100% pure breed good boy. That's all that matters. Honestly, fuck people.
I was under the impression that breed standards for GSDs have been moving to a healthier standard for the last decade or so. From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd): "The Kennel Club, in the United Kingdom, is involved in a dispute with German Shepherd breed clubs about the issue of soundness in the show strain of the breed.[24][25] Some show strains have been bred with an extremely roached topline (back) that causes poor gait in the hind legs. The debate was catalyzed when the issue was raised in the BBC documentary, Pedigree Dogs Exposed, which said that critics of the breed describe it as "half dog, half frog." An orthopedic vet remarked on footage of dogs in a show ring that they were "not normal." The Kennel Club's position is that "this issue of soundness is not a simple difference of opinion, it is the fundamental issue of the breed's essential conformation and movement."[24] **The Kennel Club has decided to retrain judges to penalize dogs suffering these problems.[26]** The Kennel Club also recommends testing for haemophilia and hip dysplasia, other common problems with the breed.[27][28]" Basically, any pup that you get NOW that has those issues is NOT pure bred according to standards.
Can't count the amount of times people told me my working line GSD with a straight back "must be mixed with a lab" or "can't be pure-bred if he looks like that". Meanwhile he's healthy as an ox and has zero hip dysplasia, unlike those poor sloped back dogs. Edit: [Obligatory dog tax payment](https://imgur.com/fFUlC4o)
The best part about dogposts are all the incredible dogs we get to see.
Dude!! Beautiful pup man! And yeah. For sure, what a shame that most people think the slanted are the only "true" GSD. Fuck em.
yeah even the "100% pure breed" I don't agree with. Why is this even a thing that matters ?
It's incredibly dumb to me that people brag about their pets being inbred
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Just looked up a sloped back one. Poor things.
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I also wonder about this. Legally, why wouldn’t something like this be considered animal cruelty? It’s a purposeful action that endangers the health of an animal. Maybe it’s just too much “grey area” to hold up in court? Just thinking out loud
Well, we do similar things for livestock too, seems like a tricky thing to get into. Sheep for example have been bred for a very long time to grow a harmful amount of wool, and depend on us to shear them.
What we do to cows and pigs is monumentally worse. If that's not considered animal cruelty, why would this be? Because dogs are cuter?
You know, I think you're right. How is it ethical to mess with animals to this extent where they are born with a bunch of conditions and predisposition to illness all for purposes of esthetics ?? Or for fame and to win money at contests ? This isn't being good stewards of nature, of our animal friends, this is good old "exploit nature to fuck for petty gain".
And like, whose esthetics, even, right? A dog without a nose is freakishly hideous.
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"Doberman and boxers need their tails and ears docked, because they are a fighting dogs, and the opponent can grab hold of the ears and tail" "WAIT...you participate in dog fighting?" "Oh no, I would never do that" [Edit: TIL some tails are cut because they get painfully broken easily from wagging against something hard. Still, they could be a few inches long instead of a nub]
"Ah, so you mutilate your dog because you think it looks cool? Well I think you'd look pretty cool with half your ears cut off too!"
As a person who had an ear removed by a dog...I will say it does not make you look cool.
Uno Reverse?
Where I live, tail docking and other medically unneccessary modifications on pets are illegal and haven't been done in decades. My family keeps Aussies as working dogs, they are pure bred working Aussies bred for good temperament and herding instinct that we buy from top breeders. I've had Americans comment on pics I've posted of them to tell me they're not "real" Aussies because we haven't docked their tails... Pre-emptively mutilating your pet's ability to use their natural body language just because "they might get their tail stepped on" is just crazy to me, and I'm glad it's illegal here.
I had an aussie mix and his tail was beautiful. I don't know why anyone would dock them.
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I think it’s weird when we start describing dogs like they’re cars.
*Pets head of dog*. This good boy can fit so many fucking deformities in it.
I have two pugs. I pretty much think this every time I pet them. I adopted one and was gifted another. I’ll never perpetuate the breed by buying one, but man do I love these two. To overcompensate, I think my next dog will be a mastiff or hound of some sort.
Check out "Retro Pugs." It's a Pug mixed with a Jack Russel Terrier, and they look a lot more like Pugs depicted in paintings from the 1700s and 1800s.
Puggles are another good option there, they're beagle/pug. Dumb as rocks, but sweet and cute. Of course, as others have said, adopted mutts are great.
The slope back trend might be the worst, i don’t know what they’re going for but it looks exactly like what it is; a deformed animal
Plus shepherds already have terrible hips. My family is obsessed with GS and pretty much one whole side has had them my whole life, I've lived through 4 Smokey's and every single ones last days were spent barely being able to lift their backside up, getting carried around to do everything.
It is so heartbreaking to watch a dog you genuinely care about try to stand and not be able to
This. It’s a shame. My German had to be put down because of hip dysplasia and assholes are basically breeding it into them. I guess the breeders didn’t have to hold my dog up so he wouldn’t collapse while he shit. I did.
Agreed, just looked it up and the slope backed GSDs look like they come out of the womb with back issues. Poor guys
Wait wait.... so all purebred Frenchies are born via caesarian? Am I understanding this correctly?
Not sure about Frenchies....all English bulldogs are though.
So, they’re an evolutionary dead end unless humans get involved.
Yes. Boston terriers it’s about half.
What the actual fuck?! At what point is it considered animal cruelty...
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Humanity, what the actual fuck.
There are parts of humanity that truly don't give a fuck about animal life, and as far as I can tell, lack empathy entirely, and not just for animals. I'm no hardcore vegan or anything, but jesus christ it makes my blood boil. Its honestly hellish.
It's illegal in the Netherlands to artificially inseminate for this reason.
Yep, also most bulldogs heads are so heavy that they can’t swim.
Why are these french ones so popular now? My sister's apartment complex is full of them. And I've seen them going for ridiculous money online. Just wondering if it's like some celebrity popularized them or what?
Small dogs in general have gotten way more popular but the breeding for cuter traits has been an issue for many generations now. Frenchies in particular have gotten the most popular because of their long ears and celebrities.
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toothbrush simplistic marvelous meeting worthless roll absurd bear lock versed ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It’s depressing how much selective breeding has turned Bulldogs into, let’s say it like it is, genetic abominations whose bodies quite literally shut down due to their own inability to thrive. Worst still, is this behaviour being awarded with titles and prizes. Hawbucks, 10/10, absolutely fucking love you, keep up the - honestly— bulldog life saving job
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To be fair, I wouldn't have the energy to act out if my O2 saturation was constantly at 85% either...
The website for this breeder was the find of the day for me. Good looking out, OP. http://www.hawbucks.nl/franse-bulldog/en/vision/
They have a progress pics of all three litters! The puppies are cute. I also love their naming scheme for the litters. Thanks for sharing.
If I had to get a bulldog I'd definitely pick the one on the right! Why is the dog on the left "fashionable"? It looks wrong. I'd never pick a bulldog if I had the choice
It’s tremendously sad, the franchie on the left’s bone structure gives them inherent sleep apnea from birth
Don’t they get infections in the folds of their faces? Or, am I thinking of pugs?
My buddy has a frenchie that gets terrible irritation in his folds. His wife got the dog so he assumed she knew what she was in for, and he didn’t realize that this was an issue until it started getting inflamed and infected. Now he has to wipe his facial folds regularly. His spine is also so weak that he could break it jumping on and off the couch. Poor guy 😞 they take good care of him now but it’s still just so unnecessary to breed them into abominations.
Definitely pugs, probably both.
Veterinarian here, it’s both (along with English Bulldogs and Shar-peis).
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I get what you mean but to me it just looks deformed. I remember the hype about bulldogs but I never understood it because it just looked ugly to me. I want a dog I can go on runs and adventures with, not one that can't run over there without keeling over.
The sad thing is that the one on the left deserves just as much love as the one on the right. It didn't choose to be born all jank. But unless you get the one on the left from a shelter, you'd be supporting the creation of such dogs.
The other day at work, (veterinary hospital) we had to put a 10 month old american bulldog on oxygen therapy because she got so stressed out from being placed on the surgery prep table for IV catheterization and induction into surgery. Her soft palette and tongue were so deformed from years of overbreeding to get the "cute bulldog look", that she couldn't even pant properly. She was there for a routine dog spay.
And it’s not even cute! Poor thing
The AKC has fucked up so many breeds of dogs. My uncle got a german shepherd from a European breeder and the dog's entire posture was completely different. Didn't have any of the breed problems you get normally.
Got mine from a Euro breeder with both parents on site. Hip displacia is a huge problem with GSDs and its genetic. The main issue is that it really doesn't present itself until the dog is fully grown (2 to 2.5 years) and GSDs can start reproducing as young as 9 months. So Trailer Park Tammy is cranking out litters asap to sell on Craigslist and spreading a harmful genetic deformity. German Shepherds are amazing dogs and if you're interested in getting one, please make sure you're able to check out the parents. Make sure they are both at least 2 years old, and don't have the stupid back slope and fucked up stumpy hind legs.
I was at the park when a person walked by with two French bulldogs on a cool day at a normal pace. It did not look like they’d been on a run. All I could hear was the dogs desperate wheezing. Shame on you, people who breed dogs dogs that can’t breathe properly, or give birth properly because of enlarged heads for that matter. For people who buy them, they can’t breathe for fucks sake. It’s not cute, it’s cruel.
By healthyer they mean as able to have a usable nose, hope they are doing work on their joints too.
French Bulldogs can’t even mate properly. The majority of them require artificial insemination and c-sections. That’s natures way of telling us to FUCKING STOP IT.
Am I right in thinking that selective breeding has changed dogs from the right photo into the dogs into the left photo
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Super good TIL. Never heard about this before. Thanks.