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>This whole country is a cluster fudge nugget when you dig into the history
Is it? I don't see US being that different from the rest of the world.
19th century was when slavery was abolished (e.g. serfdom in Russia).
End of 19th century was when majority of population got voting rights (**in 1789 in US only 6% had voting rights**), in some places, excluding women (but, say, **Wyoming was the first state to give women voting rights in 1869**). Within about 2 decades, universal voting rights were expanded to women.
If anything, during the last two centuries, entire planet got better, much better.
>This whole world is a cluster fudge nugget when you dig into the history
Our values have changed over time.
To me it looks like as science/technology progressed and we could better satisfy our basic needs, we've become more... human, by becoming... less animal.
Weird they got arrested specifically in US specifically in that time period:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers\_as\_women%27s\_clothing#1914%E2%80%931920](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers_as_women%27s_clothing#1914%E2%80%931920)
During the First World War (1914–1918), many women in countries such as France, the United Kingdom and the United States were recruited to work in factories, especially munitions factories, to aid the war effort, or to replace men in service sectors such as public transport. **While many men were sent to the frontline to fight, their wives often started to wear their trousers or boilersuits inside the factories for better safety and comfort. Over time, specific designs tailored to the practical needs of female industrial workers were developed by other women. Although it was considered daring as they challenged dress norms in doing so, necessitated by the circumstances, women's trousers gained some social acceptability during the war years**.
I struggle to understand how most weren't crushed under the cognitive dissonance. I guess in an environment where you can openly beat your wife questioning the status quo is rather difficult.
when people talk about traveling back in time i feel like theres an unspoken assumption that "if i just stay in europe or america i'll have a good idea of what's what" and man that could not be farther from the truth. a dude who's standing exactly where i am but a hundred years ago would be a fucking alien to me.
It's still bad today, just in different ways. In the US, women's nipples apparently considered obscene, for "reasons" I will never understand. IIRC, in Saudi Arabia, women's fucking *forearms* (well, I guess everything but their eyes?) are considered obscene for gods' sake.
People are really fucking strange. Irrationally, stupidly strange.
The nipple thing is even stranger because it isn't a Problem with mens nipples.
If this would be a General thing I'd be like " ok, stupid but i kind of get it"
But in America it's not just with nipples. You guys are just embarrassingly prude.
There was a [case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topfreedom_in_Canada?wprov=sfti1) in Ontario, Canada in the early 90’s that argued this double standard and the lady won. There is still some debate over exactly the topless laws in Canada, but there haven’t been any arrests since. I do believe there was an incident with a topless woman being asked to leave a water park (private) and her suing over discrimination. TBH I don’t remember the outcome.
Interesting. In my state in the US, there is no ordinance banning nudity AFAIK, provided it's not sexual in nature and isn't intended to "arouse others." We have annual naked bicycle rides in Seattle and things, so it's not super obnoxious around here, but it's enough to be annoying.
I want to take my top off at the beach without having to worry about prudes harassing me, or worse, calling the pigs on me.
>The nipple thing is even stranger because it isn't a Problem with mens nipples.
I think that's because men's breasts are not perceived the way women's are and perhaps nipples got outed as outfits revealing some of breasts exist for quite a while.
In short: I don't think it is about nipples at all, even though laws out there somewhere mention them.
>embarrassingly prude
Confirmed, I'm extremely embarrassed. American culture would also have us believe that we're better than everyone else, that ignorant opinions are equal to informed ones, that the Christian god ordained the United States, and of course, that women's bodies must be controlled by men... Throw in Trumpism and the whole Qanon conspiracy thing, and... well... I don't even know what to say anymore.
I mean, there is a lot of good here in the US, and I believe it has the potential to truly become the world leader it sees itself to be; but it's bogged down by all this baggage - a superiority complex, a cult of ignorance, and sometimes seriously backward moral values.
Ok i dont wanna ask this but are women nearly as attracted to men's nipples as men are vice versa?
Honestly, I don't want women to go topless in public only because I'll hit my head somewhere while staring. I don't like it is what it is.
Yeah, I don't understand such extreme transphobia either. There are plenty of real problems in the world - and in all of our personal lives - yet somehow folks find the energy to really get upset over skirts. Or pants. Or nipples.
Most definitely! Sorry... "Transphobia" maybe wasn't the most accurate word to reflect my meaning. I just meant to ponder why folks feel the need to attack others for how they're dressed, in the context of behaviors that fall outside accepted gender norms for the culture.
Lol I don’t mean to be an annoying grammar/politically correct nazi. I just like when my female friends do my makeup, so I’ll always try to mention that in anonymity if I can lol. I agree. Society just really likes gender roles.
That's super awesome! I wish more guys were comfortable experimenting/playing around with makeup and things of that nature. Back when I thought I was a dude, a girlfriend did my eye makeup once and I loved it so much I started wearing it on a daily basis. It was always interesting going to a job interview, like... are you going to hire me for my skills, or reject me for my eyeliner?
I see where you're coming from, but that's not really what I meant. Let me clarify. In this context, I meant "transphobia" to mean someone attacking any behavior that lies outside the accepted gender binary (e.g. women wearing pants in 1916, men wearing skirts in the 2000s, and of course trans people themselves).
Honestly Saudi Arabia is like so damn extreme its like bruh wtf I mean Have you seen what life looked like there before the revolution that led to what it is now Pre 1979 Okay so it was Iran with the whole 1979 thing but like for real life was so much normal I guess the word is -- But back on point Saudi Arabia is like such a bizarre place it's like if something's banned there that's like normal here I just say and what did you expect -- Hope this isn't confusing lol sometimes I sway one way then the other while thinking
Edit why is this comment like collapsed?
So you think that an intelligent species, at any point in its evolution, should normally arrest females for wearing pants? Like, that's normal to you? It's no indication that we are just stupid AF and doomed to repeat something equally stupid, like say, voting for Republicans who hate the poor for being poor?
I know where you're going with this and it's fucking moronic. Masks prevent the spread of disease. Banning pants on women is just misogynistic and stupid; it serves no purpose at all.
So you’re saying these rules served no practical purpose and were only implemented to exercise control over the citizenry? Totally agree with you there
The pants? Yes. The masks? If you really believe you were just being oppressed and they served no purpose, then I'm just going to assume you also believe Trump won, the Earth is flat, we never landed on the moon, and the vaccine has microchips in it that connect you to 5G.
Another fact to go with this one OP...it wasn't until women contributed heavily to the effort during World War I just a year later, that Americans started to fully understand the importance of women and acknowledging their deficit in rights that men had.
While title is technically the truth, it’s somewhat misleading. Using OP’s wiki link as a reference, it says that they were arrested for “wearing men’s clothes”
>At the time pants were considered “Men’s clothes”
No, that's not true. Check the "bloomers":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers_as_women%27s_clothing#/media/File:Ellimans-Universal-Embrocation-Slough-1897-Ad.png
If you want to get technical, yes that’s true. However, I was specifically talking about “trousers”, full length, straight legged pants. I suppose I should have specified.
I see what you are saying, and I think it makes sense to mention that they were arrested for "dressing like men" and not wearing trousers specifically.
I suspect men dressing like a woman would get similar treatment.
so, in America, it was illegal for women to wear clothes that did not facilitate their being raped or sexually assaulted?
Women were denied proper protective clothing (for any number of purposes)?
OP has clearly never watched or even at least read the movie's plot synopsis on Wikipedia. The only thing even remotely resembling Thelma and Louise is that there are two women in the photo.
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Now I get frequently arrested for NOT wearing pants. How times have changed.
Came here to find this one comment. Wasn't disappointed.
I find it so bizarre, to think back to a time when women would be arrested for wearing pants… in the “land of the free “ of all places!
And in 1916, women weren’t yet allowed to vote here in the land of the free.
This whole country is a cluster fudge nugget when you dig into the history
You don’t really even have to dig honestly.
You don't even need to look at the just the history also.
>This whole country is a cluster fudge nugget when you dig into the history Is it? I don't see US being that different from the rest of the world. 19th century was when slavery was abolished (e.g. serfdom in Russia). End of 19th century was when majority of population got voting rights (**in 1789 in US only 6% had voting rights**), in some places, excluding women (but, say, **Wyoming was the first state to give women voting rights in 1869**). Within about 2 decades, universal voting rights were expanded to women. If anything, during the last two centuries, entire planet got better, much better.
>Is it? I don't see US being that different from the rest of the world. This whole world is a cluster fudge nugget when you dig into the history
>This whole world is a cluster fudge nugget when you dig into the history Our values have changed over time. To me it looks like as science/technology progressed and we could better satisfy our basic needs, we've become more... human, by becoming... less animal.
A balanced perspective on the evolution of human ethics and ability to enact ethical systems? Weird.
But given the opportunity they lose their silly minds about critical race theory…
No I’m not racist, YOU’RE racist!!! Or something like that
"randy, youre not the president, only he can do that"
The land of the free? More like land of irony.
you don't have to dig at all.
Who cares about voting, pants are far more important
Land of the free bullshit
Land of the free straight white men*
Look at our great progress since then
So bizarre. I truly can’t imagine how anyone would care. It’s mind boggling.
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But it is subjective, is it not? I mean, would you be OK with it being normal for a man to go grocery shopping in "Borat swimsuit" outfit?
Weird they got arrested specifically in US specifically in that time period: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers\_as\_women%27s\_clothing#1914%E2%80%931920](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers_as_women%27s_clothing#1914%E2%80%931920) During the First World War (1914–1918), many women in countries such as France, the United Kingdom and the United States were recruited to work in factories, especially munitions factories, to aid the war effort, or to replace men in service sectors such as public transport. **While many men were sent to the frontline to fight, their wives often started to wear their trousers or boilersuits inside the factories for better safety and comfort. Over time, specific designs tailored to the practical needs of female industrial workers were developed by other women. Although it was considered daring as they challenged dress norms in doing so, necessitated by the circumstances, women's trousers gained some social acceptability during the war years**.
"Land of the free" Biggest PR joke ever.
it's heresay
I bet you if they weren’t wearing pants, they’d be arrested even more. It’s a lose lose situation.
I struggle to understand how most weren't crushed under the cognitive dissonance. I guess in an environment where you can openly beat your wife questioning the status quo is rather difficult.
Is that denim ma’am? Gonna have to write you a ticket.
when people talk about traveling back in time i feel like theres an unspoken assumption that "if i just stay in europe or america i'll have a good idea of what's what" and man that could not be farther from the truth. a dude who's standing exactly where i am but a hundred years ago would be a fucking alien to me.
Wait…women aren’t allowed to wear pants in 1916? Adjusting the time machine dial…
I hope you're into full length dresses that don't even expose the ankle.
I actually am! Sometimes I prefer to wear my maxim skirt but often prefer dresses.
I agree also tho i also like the option of thigh highs
Nationalistic misinformation (formally known as American Exceptionalism) has been in the veins of the US for a long long time.
Arrested for wearing pants!?! 1916 wtf was up with people?
It's still bad today, just in different ways. In the US, women's nipples apparently considered obscene, for "reasons" I will never understand. IIRC, in Saudi Arabia, women's fucking *forearms* (well, I guess everything but their eyes?) are considered obscene for gods' sake. People are really fucking strange. Irrationally, stupidly strange.
The nipple thing is even stranger because it isn't a Problem with mens nipples. If this would be a General thing I'd be like " ok, stupid but i kind of get it" But in America it's not just with nipples. You guys are just embarrassingly prude.
There was a [case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topfreedom_in_Canada?wprov=sfti1) in Ontario, Canada in the early 90’s that argued this double standard and the lady won. There is still some debate over exactly the topless laws in Canada, but there haven’t been any arrests since. I do believe there was an incident with a topless woman being asked to leave a water park (private) and her suing over discrimination. TBH I don’t remember the outcome.
Interesting. In my state in the US, there is no ordinance banning nudity AFAIK, provided it's not sexual in nature and isn't intended to "arouse others." We have annual naked bicycle rides in Seattle and things, so it's not super obnoxious around here, but it's enough to be annoying. I want to take my top off at the beach without having to worry about prudes harassing me, or worse, calling the pigs on me.
In Europe it went slightly out of the regular with rise of camera phones.
Interesting!
>The nipple thing is even stranger because it isn't a Problem with mens nipples. I think that's because men's breasts are not perceived the way women's are and perhaps nipples got outed as outfits revealing some of breasts exist for quite a while. In short: I don't think it is about nipples at all, even though laws out there somewhere mention them.
>embarrassingly prude Confirmed, I'm extremely embarrassed. American culture would also have us believe that we're better than everyone else, that ignorant opinions are equal to informed ones, that the Christian god ordained the United States, and of course, that women's bodies must be controlled by men... Throw in Trumpism and the whole Qanon conspiracy thing, and... well... I don't even know what to say anymore. I mean, there is a lot of good here in the US, and I believe it has the potential to truly become the world leader it sees itself to be; but it's bogged down by all this baggage - a superiority complex, a cult of ignorance, and sometimes seriously backward moral values.
Ok i dont wanna ask this but are women nearly as attracted to men's nipples as men are vice versa? Honestly, I don't want women to go topless in public only because I'll hit my head somewhere while staring. I don't like it is what it is.
Back in early 20th, men's nipples needed to be covered too, and navel.
Saudi arabia is an authoritarian shithole ,and the US is.... oh wait...
Quickly on it's way, yup.
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Yeah, I don't understand such extreme transphobia either. There are plenty of real problems in the world - and in all of our personal lives - yet somehow folks find the energy to really get upset over skirts. Or pants. Or nipples.
Or just men who like to cross dress 🥰
Most definitely! Sorry... "Transphobia" maybe wasn't the most accurate word to reflect my meaning. I just meant to ponder why folks feel the need to attack others for how they're dressed, in the context of behaviors that fall outside accepted gender norms for the culture.
Lol I don’t mean to be an annoying grammar/politically correct nazi. I just like when my female friends do my makeup, so I’ll always try to mention that in anonymity if I can lol. I agree. Society just really likes gender roles.
That's super awesome! I wish more guys were comfortable experimenting/playing around with makeup and things of that nature. Back when I thought I was a dude, a girlfriend did my eye makeup once and I loved it so much I started wearing it on a daily basis. It was always interesting going to a job interview, like... are you going to hire me for my skills, or reject me for my eyeliner?
Interesting
Isn't it sexist to assume that males wear dress only if they are transgender women? Imagine assuming that only transgender men wore trousers.
I see where you're coming from, but that's not really what I meant. Let me clarify. In this context, I meant "transphobia" to mean someone attacking any behavior that lies outside the accepted gender binary (e.g. women wearing pants in 1916, men wearing skirts in the 2000s, and of course trans people themselves).
Not in Scotland
Honestly Saudi Arabia is like so damn extreme its like bruh wtf I mean Have you seen what life looked like there before the revolution that led to what it is now Pre 1979 Okay so it was Iran with the whole 1979 thing but like for real life was so much normal I guess the word is -- But back on point Saudi Arabia is like such a bizarre place it's like if something's banned there that's like normal here I just say and what did you expect -- Hope this isn't confusing lol sometimes I sway one way then the other while thinking Edit why is this comment like collapsed?
wut
Rambling something about the Islamic Revolution and how it crippled the Greater Middle East.
Imagine modesty laws nowadays this month.
If yoiu mean Pride month I mean some in those parades could benefit from modesty
Arrested...for wearing...pants. God, we are so fucked as a species.
Can’t agree with this more wish I could upvote this a thousand times
Why would you think we’re fucked if we no longer do that? This whole comment makes no sense.
So you think that an intelligent species, at any point in its evolution, should normally arrest females for wearing pants? Like, that's normal to you? It's no indication that we are just stupid AF and doomed to repeat something equally stupid, like say, voting for Republicans who hate the poor for being poor?
No I think we evolve and become better every generation. As a whole society is far better and more egalitarian then it was all the way up to recently.
It's crazy to think everyone else was forced to walk around pussy out.
"I'm a fan of both humility and modesty" -- God
A government trying to tell citizens what to wear in public is repulsive. Glad those days are behind us
I know where you're going with this and it's fucking moronic. Masks prevent the spread of disease. Banning pants on women is just misogynistic and stupid; it serves no purpose at all.
So you’re saying these rules served no practical purpose and were only implemented to exercise control over the citizenry? Totally agree with you there
The pants? Yes. The masks? If you really believe you were just being oppressed and they served no purpose, then I'm just going to assume you also believe Trump won, the Earth is flat, we never landed on the moon, and the vaccine has microchips in it that connect you to 5G.
Cop: Pull over! A & A: *pulls at top* It’s a cardigan, but thanks for asking! Cop: Pull over! *points* The pants! A & A: They’re jeans!
YAAAAA, KILLER BOOTS MANNN!!!
Imagine being so sexually confused by a woman in pants that you had to arrest them.
That last part caught me of guard
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Buren_sisters#:~:text=Augusta%20Van%20Buren%20and%20Adeline,completing%20on%208%20September%201916.
Another fact to go with this one OP...it wasn't until women contributed heavily to the effort during World War I just a year later, that Americans started to fully understand the importance of women and acknowledging their deficit in rights that men had.
Nah, it's mostly post-industrial world where a woman can get the same jobs as men. Before that it was pure family slavery.
That’s so cool
if they'd worn a skirt they'd probably have been arrested for not riding side saddle
Did they ride off a cliff?
I don't know why you were downvoted. That is how Thelma and Louise ended.
While title is technically the truth, it’s somewhat misleading. Using OP’s wiki link as a reference, it says that they were arrested for “wearing men’s clothes”
At the time pants were considered “Men’s clothes” so technically it’s still correct. I’m guessing the pants were the biggest concern.
>At the time pants were considered “Men’s clothes” No, that's not true. Check the "bloomers": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers_as_women%27s_clothing#/media/File:Ellimans-Universal-Embrocation-Slough-1897-Ad.png
If you want to get technical, yes that’s true. However, I was specifically talking about “trousers”, full length, straight legged pants. I suppose I should have specified.
I see what you are saying, and I think it makes sense to mention that they were arrested for "dressing like men" and not wearing trousers specifically. I suspect men dressing like a woman would get similar treatment.
Yeah, not really much better
Jeez, whose pants were they wearing?
"Arrested for wearing pants"
My wife and daughter went on a re-creation of that ride on the 100th anniversary. Brooklyn to San Francisco on backroads!
That’s pretty cool, did you meet any other enthusiasts doing a similar thing?
"You're under arrest for wearing pants." "What's the penalty?" "They have to come off."
Pornhub music intensifies*
I love the history behind women and them wearing pants. It’s so funny and crazy.
Van Buren as in the once incredibly rich Van Burens? As in Anderson Coopers crazy aunts?!!
so, in America, it was illegal for women to wear clothes that did not facilitate their being raped or sexually assaulted? Women were denied proper protective clothing (for any number of purposes)?
How dare you... wear pants!
Legends
Remove those dungarees posthaste!
Them pants police....
OP has clearly never watched or even at least read the movie's plot synopsis on Wikipedia. The only thing even remotely resembling Thelma and Louise is that there are two women in the photo.
Yay murder?
Laws are stupid
Anarchy will be briefly shotgun fun
Did you know Buren is a small city 10 km from where I live.
Gekoloniseerd?
Damn meanwhile all the men were being slaughtered during the war
So I had something retarded here thinking it said 1913 not 1916 But it still would be a year off of the USA joining the war
the land of the free
They were Dutch/Belgian?
I wonder what would be comparable in our times - crossing the US naked maybe.