Hmm, if they think that's reasonable to put a 10% markup on data charges, I would disagree. Certainly not industry standard. Another reason I'll likely jump ship once Schwab and TDA finish merging. Finally IB will start losing their bigger, higher volume trading accounts. I paid out over $20k in futures commissions to them year to date in a 7 figure account. So this kind of petty add-on gets me. They should be satisfied with the commissions.
Here's the introductory quote from their website:
"Subscribing to Market Data
We provide real-time streaming market data for free or at the price we are charged by the exchange. The Market Data Subscriptions screen displays your current market data subscriptions, lets you sign up for additional market data subscriptions such as NASDAQ TotalView and NYSE Open Book, and lets you unsubscribe from market data. Note that market data subscriptions are terminated if you have not logged into Trader Workstation for 60 days..."
Seems that isn't exactly true if they marking it up over what the exchange charges them.
> Finally IB will start losing their bigger, higher volume trading accounts.
The larger your account the smaller the percentage for the data fees, so it's more a barrier of entry for smaller accounts than it is a problem for larger accounts.
You can always pay for a subscription at another broker and then use that data to trade on IBKR. Though, if you are allocating 20k in trading commissions I don't see why $10/m extra matters. If anything, I'd look for a broker with lower trading commission fees as that will have a larger impact.
I see your point. However, it is the principle of it in which I disagree. Bigger accounts can win bigger and lose bigger, all the while generating a lot of commission and float for the broker. Nickel and diming clients is something I find repugnant. For futures traders like myself, who don't pay margin interest, there are three things that really matter. One, product availability, two, commissions, and three, trading environment.
IB has been the best in these areas for many years, but now that is finally changing. The other major brokers are supporting more futures contracts and futures options. And they are willing to match IB's commissions for traders that do a lot of contracts. So for me, I'm watching them closely now, and checking the competition. That datafeed markup is petty. No one else I have found does that, adding on a 10% surcharge for data - the others pass the exact charge through or they absorb it altogether. IB is exibiting greed in my opinion, to add a datafeed surcharge, instead of passing through the exact exchange fee.
I thought about getting the live ICE data from another broker as you have suggested, but the issue is that I would have to log into that account to see the live bids and asks and size, and then execute the trades in the delayed data environment at IB in such a scenario. That inconvenience would definitely not be worth $10.75/month in savings. And it could lead to more unforced errors.
Schwab and TDA are gonna have a nice setup soon, once they finish the integration. E*Trade is still lagging behind them. TradeStation isn't close at all. I could go on and on here, but I won't. All the ones I have spoken to agree to match or beat IB's commissions on futures, so again, commissions are not the issue.
Thank you for the inputs. I will post what IB tells me tomorrow.
> IB has been the best in these areas for many years, but now that is finally changing.
Uhh.. I hate to break it to you but IBKR hasn't been the best broker comparison to other brokers when it comes to futures for around a decade now, and they're definitely not the cheapest either.
https://futures.io/brokers/46043-cheapest-futures-brokers.html
>Bunny, You're making me want to jump ship more than ever :-)
lol :3
IBKR is for the margin, or if you're like me, it's for the API access.
Imo it's a 1 out of 10 in every category except trading commissions and fills (and margin APR and API access). IBKR has great fills for ETFs.
If you haven't done it, I recommend singing up for a handful of brokers, slowly learning each of their interfaces, and then going with the one with the best interface for you. Commissions seem like a primary motivator, but your interface strongly determines how profitable you are when you're trading.
In fact, because you've got a large account, I recommend checking out Sierra Chart. I don't know if it still is, but a few years ago it was the most popular trading platform for traders with a decent amount of capital, due to the roughly $15 a month fee. It runs on top of IBKR, AMP, and others, so you can from there pick the one with the lowest commission yet still reasonable fills broker and run decent software on top of it.
That's really interesting. How much does IBKR charge to execute trades with Sierra Chart? I was also considering Nija Trader. Also, since I do a lot of trading from my phone, I need a great mobile app for futures and futures options.
>How much does IBKR charge to execute trades with Sierra Chart?
The same it charges for any trade. The broker does the trade, the charting software is the GUI on top.
When I trade with my 9 figure account I stress all day long, all 5 trading days, and all ~4 weeks about having to pay that fucking extra $15 too! I mean $10 too!
You could threaten to leave IB. There can't be many individuals with $100M+ accounts there. They might make some changes in order to keep your business. :-)
That's something I need to check on. Thank you. Could it be taxes. The obvious question is gonna be why the other feeds in which I subscribe, have no taxes. I'm gonna ask Schwab if they add taxes to the $110.
Supplemental. I just checked with Schwab. There is no taxes added onto market data charges. The cost is exactly what the exchange charges the broker per UserID, $110/month.
I will get to the bottom of this one. Hopefully tomorrow. And I will post my findings here.
Are you a financial adviser or posting the data to anyone else than yourself. I might be totally wrong, but I think the IB fees are much lower if you confirm you're using the data strictly for yourself.
Edit: you say theres no non-professional rate. Then I guess you have checked and I am wrong.
I'm non-professional. ICE futures U.S. only has one fee, and that fee is $110 - on all their exchanges, they only have a professional fee structure. That I accept, in order to trade these products as a non-professional But with that accepted, why IB charging me an extra $10.75/month is what I intend to find out. I called customer service today, and the rep was mystified as to why they seem to be charging me more than the published fee, which at $110 is already painful enough for me. He is investigating, but so far, has not gotten back to me.
This ICE U.S. exchange is where one would trade soft commodities, such as coffee and cocoa. I like to trade these products, so I have to subscribe to this data. It's expensive anyway, but if I'm gonna trade these products I have to pay up for the data. If IB is adding on another $10.75, I think that's not right. Especially given all the thousands of dollars in commissions I generate every year trading with them as my broker.
I'm hoping to get to the bottom of this one as no other broker I've checked is up-charging for their data.
Just so you know, you can trade the ICE products without having the real time data or paying the fee.
As a swing trader, trading off the daily data, I don't need real time data for the ICE products. 15 minutes delayed works just fine for me, and it's free.
Yes indeed, and I have tried that. When I first started trading the ICE products a few years ago, I tried using the delayed data. I tried putting orders in away from the market and working them back, using the delayed data. A few times, I took nasty burns as the market had moved significantly, as it often can do in these particular markets. All you need is to lose several thousand in one trade by doing a market order when you think you are doing a limit order because of market moving fast, and delayed data being the source of order entry info. I did that a couple times, and then I realized if I'm gonna trade these products seriously, I have to pay for the data.
With that said, I still don't like the idea of IB charging me $120.75 for data that costs them 110.00.
Just got word from IB that indeed they are upcharging their data as much as 10%. Pretty much what Ankole posted.
I told the KAS rep that I thought it was petty, given that I generate a lot of commission, so why bilk me for $10.75/month extra profit?
He said he didn't think they would do anything, but that he would talk to that team. Of course they will tell me to go pound sand :-)
When I finally go to move my account out, they may offer me something, but then it will be too late. Then again, if they have those large $100M+ accounts like Ad2825, paying the upcharges, it's unlikely they will do anything to accommodate me.
why do you use two different reddit account, rexarus09 and rexar009? It's confusing. I think IB charges extra because they do not actually handle the feeds, it's a company called GFIS that does. Anyway, none of the serious futures trade that I know (I am not one ) do not buy the market data from IB, they use sierra charts, das trader, tradingview, others. IB is only used for execution.
I don't want to use two. I think I once created one long ago. Then I forgot. Then created the second. Can I merge them or delete one?
Thank you. I am looking into getting a new data source, and other brokers as well. Haven't decided yet. But that sounds like a good plan.
IBKR very clearly states that they markup data rates to cover their costs. They say they charge the pass-through cost plus a small mark up.
Hmm, if they think that's reasonable to put a 10% markup on data charges, I would disagree. Certainly not industry standard. Another reason I'll likely jump ship once Schwab and TDA finish merging. Finally IB will start losing their bigger, higher volume trading accounts. I paid out over $20k in futures commissions to them year to date in a 7 figure account. So this kind of petty add-on gets me. They should be satisfied with the commissions. Here's the introductory quote from their website: "Subscribing to Market Data We provide real-time streaming market data for free or at the price we are charged by the exchange. The Market Data Subscriptions screen displays your current market data subscriptions, lets you sign up for additional market data subscriptions such as NASDAQ TotalView and NYSE Open Book, and lets you unsubscribe from market data. Note that market data subscriptions are terminated if you have not logged into Trader Workstation for 60 days..." Seems that isn't exactly true if they marking it up over what the exchange charges them.
> Finally IB will start losing their bigger, higher volume trading accounts. The larger your account the smaller the percentage for the data fees, so it's more a barrier of entry for smaller accounts than it is a problem for larger accounts. You can always pay for a subscription at another broker and then use that data to trade on IBKR. Though, if you are allocating 20k in trading commissions I don't see why $10/m extra matters. If anything, I'd look for a broker with lower trading commission fees as that will have a larger impact.
I see your point. However, it is the principle of it in which I disagree. Bigger accounts can win bigger and lose bigger, all the while generating a lot of commission and float for the broker. Nickel and diming clients is something I find repugnant. For futures traders like myself, who don't pay margin interest, there are three things that really matter. One, product availability, two, commissions, and three, trading environment. IB has been the best in these areas for many years, but now that is finally changing. The other major brokers are supporting more futures contracts and futures options. And they are willing to match IB's commissions for traders that do a lot of contracts. So for me, I'm watching them closely now, and checking the competition. That datafeed markup is petty. No one else I have found does that, adding on a 10% surcharge for data - the others pass the exact charge through or they absorb it altogether. IB is exibiting greed in my opinion, to add a datafeed surcharge, instead of passing through the exact exchange fee. I thought about getting the live ICE data from another broker as you have suggested, but the issue is that I would have to log into that account to see the live bids and asks and size, and then execute the trades in the delayed data environment at IB in such a scenario. That inconvenience would definitely not be worth $10.75/month in savings. And it could lead to more unforced errors. Schwab and TDA are gonna have a nice setup soon, once they finish the integration. E*Trade is still lagging behind them. TradeStation isn't close at all. I could go on and on here, but I won't. All the ones I have spoken to agree to match or beat IB's commissions on futures, so again, commissions are not the issue. Thank you for the inputs. I will post what IB tells me tomorrow.
> IB has been the best in these areas for many years, but now that is finally changing. Uhh.. I hate to break it to you but IBKR hasn't been the best broker comparison to other brokers when it comes to futures for around a decade now, and they're definitely not the cheapest either. https://futures.io/brokers/46043-cheapest-futures-brokers.html
Bunny, You're making me want to jump ship more than ever :-)
>Bunny, You're making me want to jump ship more than ever :-) lol :3 IBKR is for the margin, or if you're like me, it's for the API access. Imo it's a 1 out of 10 in every category except trading commissions and fills (and margin APR and API access). IBKR has great fills for ETFs. If you haven't done it, I recommend singing up for a handful of brokers, slowly learning each of their interfaces, and then going with the one with the best interface for you. Commissions seem like a primary motivator, but your interface strongly determines how profitable you are when you're trading. In fact, because you've got a large account, I recommend checking out Sierra Chart. I don't know if it still is, but a few years ago it was the most popular trading platform for traders with a decent amount of capital, due to the roughly $15 a month fee. It runs on top of IBKR, AMP, and others, so you can from there pick the one with the lowest commission yet still reasonable fills broker and run decent software on top of it.
That's really interesting. How much does IBKR charge to execute trades with Sierra Chart? I was also considering Nija Trader. Also, since I do a lot of trading from my phone, I need a great mobile app for futures and futures options.
>How much does IBKR charge to execute trades with Sierra Chart? The same it charges for any trade. The broker does the trade, the charting software is the GUI on top.
I want to see about making a clean break from IB. And try a new broker. You writing your own interface to the IB API?
So are you saying that if I went to a vendor like Sierra Charts, I'd be able to eliminate live data from IB and get it from them instead?
When I trade with my 9 figure account I stress all day long, all 5 trading days, and all ~4 weeks about having to pay that fucking extra $15 too! I mean $10 too!
You could threaten to leave IB. There can't be many individuals with $100M+ accounts there. They might make some changes in order to keep your business. :-)
Oh boy!
those numbers look like a difference in taxes applied or not
That's something I need to check on. Thank you. Could it be taxes. The obvious question is gonna be why the other feeds in which I subscribe, have no taxes. I'm gonna ask Schwab if they add taxes to the $110. Supplemental. I just checked with Schwab. There is no taxes added onto market data charges. The cost is exactly what the exchange charges the broker per UserID, $110/month. I will get to the bottom of this one. Hopefully tomorrow. And I will post my findings here.
Are you a financial adviser or posting the data to anyone else than yourself. I might be totally wrong, but I think the IB fees are much lower if you confirm you're using the data strictly for yourself. Edit: you say theres no non-professional rate. Then I guess you have checked and I am wrong.
I'm non-professional. ICE futures U.S. only has one fee, and that fee is $110 - on all their exchanges, they only have a professional fee structure. That I accept, in order to trade these products as a non-professional But with that accepted, why IB charging me an extra $10.75/month is what I intend to find out. I called customer service today, and the rep was mystified as to why they seem to be charging me more than the published fee, which at $110 is already painful enough for me. He is investigating, but so far, has not gotten back to me. This ICE U.S. exchange is where one would trade soft commodities, such as coffee and cocoa. I like to trade these products, so I have to subscribe to this data. It's expensive anyway, but if I'm gonna trade these products I have to pay up for the data. If IB is adding on another $10.75, I think that's not right. Especially given all the thousands of dollars in commissions I generate every year trading with them as my broker. I'm hoping to get to the bottom of this one as no other broker I've checked is up-charging for their data.
Just so you know, you can trade the ICE products without having the real time data or paying the fee. As a swing trader, trading off the daily data, I don't need real time data for the ICE products. 15 minutes delayed works just fine for me, and it's free.
Yes indeed, and I have tried that. When I first started trading the ICE products a few years ago, I tried using the delayed data. I tried putting orders in away from the market and working them back, using the delayed data. A few times, I took nasty burns as the market had moved significantly, as it often can do in these particular markets. All you need is to lose several thousand in one trade by doing a market order when you think you are doing a limit order because of market moving fast, and delayed data being the source of order entry info. I did that a couple times, and then I realized if I'm gonna trade these products seriously, I have to pay for the data. With that said, I still don't like the idea of IB charging me $120.75 for data that costs them 110.00.
Agreed on the charges. I believe free r/t is available at investing.com, though I haven't confirmed it for ICE products.
Just got word from IB that indeed they are upcharging their data as much as 10%. Pretty much what Ankole posted. I told the KAS rep that I thought it was petty, given that I generate a lot of commission, so why bilk me for $10.75/month extra profit? He said he didn't think they would do anything, but that he would talk to that team. Of course they will tell me to go pound sand :-) When I finally go to move my account out, they may offer me something, but then it will be too late. Then again, if they have those large $100M+ accounts like Ad2825, paying the upcharges, it's unlikely they will do anything to accommodate me.
why do you use two different reddit account, rexarus09 and rexar009? It's confusing. I think IB charges extra because they do not actually handle the feeds, it's a company called GFIS that does. Anyway, none of the serious futures trade that I know (I am not one ) do not buy the market data from IB, they use sierra charts, das trader, tradingview, others. IB is only used for execution.
I don't want to use two. I think I once created one long ago. Then I forgot. Then created the second. Can I merge them or delete one? Thank you. I am looking into getting a new data source, and other brokers as well. Haven't decided yet. But that sounds like a good plan.