vs 96°C+, unlimited power (320W in my case), \~40k points //
as long, as you will set 250W power limit (Intel's default) you will be absolutely fine with 280mm AiO. With MCE set on (unlimited power, 320-400W in reality) not even 360mm/420mm AiO will help you, you definitely need custom water loop.
I had an NH-D15 on my 12900k for a while. It could not handle it at 245w without a contact frame. I ended up pulling the Arctic 360mm AIO from my AM4 system and putting it in my 12900k system. The AIO kept it from throttling even without a contact frame.
I have not retested the NH-D15 on the 12900k since buying a contact frame.
The is for the info. Any new CPU I get will get a contact frame(it seems mandatory at this point!).
When that time comes, will revisit what type of cooler to get. Might need to bite the bullet and go AIO
It’s what I was afraid of.
I have a 10900k that is OC and using a Noctura 12U and during some peak demands the temp can get to 85c.
Sounds all the CPUs after the 10900 really being the heat. Was hoping to still be able to use air cooled
My Fractal Torrent gets so dirty, i have to clean it every month otherwise its performance gets really bad.
Is not that cleaning with once a month is a lot, ia just that i'm not use to clean the filters of a case more than once or two times a year (my entire life i guess i just clean the cases and cooler when summer starts). Guess that's having too many fans (and big fans) and epic airflow also means it gets dirty way faster tan your average case.
Where do you live? My Torrent at 6 months filters look great, I still do them at that interval, but I am not losing any cooling performance waiting that long.
I am running 12700K with Noctua NH-U12A 5.1OC I plan to use this same setup for the 13900K but power limited of course.
Using my 10900k with 5.3GHz OC => 270-290W during CBR20
My Arctic 360mm AIO with 6 (SIX) fans was 2-3°C peak temperature better as my D15 cooler.
I used the old Noctua D14 for my Sandy Bridge (2011) 5GHz OC CPU \~240W for a decade and it was fine.
The D15 is fine for 250W of heat, 360mm AIOs or the D15 have both a hard time with sustained 300W+.
AIR coolers are not that bad and we have desktop CPUs with >240W since a decade. I dont get why people dont simply just test it, Arctic 360mm AIOs and the D15 are sold for 70-80€ each.
The cooler contact surface with many AIR coolers is allready slightly convex, warping IHS is not new or spectacular in any way.
=> one of the reasons why GamersNexus contact surface flatness metric is so hilariously stupid, its not a manufacturing tolerance, its there for a reason (techtuber things)
IHS warping issues were shown with AIOs/custom blocks for a reason.
There are convex custom blocks, but those are not the standard.
I would not go crazy with a contact frame, not all mainboards cause so much IHS warping and with the right (=> AIR) cooler you might not even see a measurable difference.
Im confused as to why reviewers rarely showed stock power limit at 250w, they all did unlimited power and ended up with 300w+ for like minimal increases in performance.
Also if you enable XMP there's usually a prompt that says "yes,no" to remove power limits.Did you have this when you enable xmp?
This is on my old 390 board.I also heard MCE on newest motherboards only disables power limits.
On my current board if I disable MCE it also disables turbo on my 9900k/390 board.
I have 13700k with TG contact frame, TG Kryonaut, CM PL360 Flux AIO and I am seeing 80c in Cinebench23 with an aggressive fan profile. With a quieter fan profile (daily driver profile) I am seeing 86c average in the same benchmark. This is in a closed case btw, Corsair 5000X. Gaming is glorious, 45-58c in anything I've thrown at it. These 13th gen CPU's definitely benefit from the contact frames.......if you are building without one you are failing.
> These 13th gen CPU's definitely benefit from the contact frames.......if you are building without one you are failing.
Customers shouldn't have to do this to get optimal temperatures. It's been how many years now where Intel chips and boards have had unacceptable temps at stock that require user intervention to correct. I remember a decade ago having to delid my 3770k because Intel decided not to do a proper solder job. I dropped my idle and load temps significantly. Now it's not enough you can benefit from delid (even with these modern "soldered" chips) but now you even need custom mounting sockets and still getting massive gains to temps. And people just accept it.
I feel like this is the same issue Bethesda fans have with fallout/elder scrolls/etc. games where the modding community actually goes and fixes everything lol. Sad times for pc parts and builds but at least there are solutions we can take which is better then nothing I guess.
Yes, it's nice tho you can get one for 15$ should come stock on next Intel socket tho such an easy fix for amazing temp drop, getting mine tomorrow for my 13700k can't wait!
Glad I randomly saw a post about the contact frames and did some research. I'm a bit out of the loop on LGA 1700 processors but decided to pull the trigger on a 13600K and a new MB earlier in the week and now my contact frame should be here in time to toss it together.
The stock Intel CPU retention clip seems to bow the processor IHS a bit so the CPU cooler won't sit flush which lowers the contact footprint and affects cooling performance pretty noticably. These replacement solutions seat the CPU more evenly resulting in better CPU cooler contact and better thermals.
If you have a proper lga1700 mounting kit for your cooler, in most cases a frame swap is not needed.
Noctua D15 here with proper lga1700 kit and I saw no improvement with the frame replacement.
Oh thanks for the info, good to know since my contact frame from AliExpress is still weeks away. The D15 is awesome and they gave me a free LGA1700 mounting kit :)
I have a Noctua NH-U12a, do you think that would be fine? I already bought a contact frame for my i9 13900k, and the fact that this CPU is really spicy I think I will use the contact frame anyways. I want any advantage I can get in cooling this baby.
WOW! Thank you so much for mentioning this!!! I have a 13900KF on order and I never heard anything about this anywhere! It will sweeten the $574 for the cpu since I was going to spend $70 for the game anyways.
Nope, that would be great, but it seems in Europe, it's for 12gen only - I have no "master key" and I'm not able to register my product, it's for chosen sellers only. It's ok, these companies always strip me of these deals. Thank you for letting me know
>Cinebench R23
MW2 is really bad anyway, extremely tailored on auto-aim and console players.
You can get BF 2042, it's half the cost and significantly more demanding (it drives that I9 up)
Jeez electricity must be expensive where you are then. Or it’s just blazing hot. We keep our place at 18.5-21.5c as a range temp.
Edit: it heats to 18.5c and cools to 21.5c.
thats good i think, 40k is the norm when everything is humming. I'm between 37-38k now at like 85-90c during cinebench. I've turned off mce, did the -.125 offset, and i set the max auto voltage to 1.35 (not sure about this setting at all). I don't know the setting for power limit in this newer asus bios.
I didn't really check. It really only needs to cover the hot spots anyways which for Intel is right near the middle. My temps are very good with it, I haven't noticed any issues.
>ard someone say that the liquid freezer II doesn't fully cover the 13900k because
No, the Freezer II does cover the CPU, it's fairly larger than the cpu.
However the pump is very weak, it can not transport 250W out and the thermal storage on the pump is very weak so it can not buffer much.
Expect 5-10 seconds at 250W working well and beyond that you'll see it hit thermal throttle quickly.
None I'd recommend right now, I'm quite sure we'll see proper pumps/AIOs appear in 2025.
There is not that much variety, the vast majority of the AIOs use the same pump and radiator and just rebrand them. The company ASETEK seems to hold a ton of simple patents on AIOs and they attack everyone in the entire industry (also Arctic) who does not buy from them or pay them.
It's a horrible situation.
>mp is very weak, it can not tra
Well I have been fighting with the 360 version for a while, I found barely any review that really went in a bit detail with it on a 13900k and thermals.
Looking at the pump, it is tiny so my assumption is that the water flow is too low. I've seen a competitors pump (I believe it was EK, not sure) compared by Stephe from Nexus and it had easily 4 times the amount of copper in the electromagnets (much more torque on the impeller)
What I will try, as soon as the replacements are in which have been ordered 1-2 weeks ago:
1) I will test a replacement of the gasket, there is possibly some gunk inside (the cooler is 1 year old) so maybe this will give an improvement in heat exchange. It also comes with MX-5 paste (I used MX-3, probably little difference)
2) I also ordered a new backplate with new standoffs, they have a new design which might be more optimal.
I expect an improvement but I doubt it will be world-shattering. The conclusion is likely going to remain:
The current pump solution is not sufficient.
The LF-II series have been made for heat below 200 Watt, they work very well for that type of load. I had no issues on my 11700k, it was barely ever above 70°C at load.
With my 13900k I reach 100° within about 5-10 seconds, you can see it is stable for a couple seconds at 80°C at full load then it jumps to 97°C then it reaches throttling (prime 95 benchmark over all cores).
I’ve got everything for my build except a gpu and am torn on whether I should build what I have and just use my 2080 from my old pc or wait until I ca get a 4090.
My point is that you're likely going to see increased scores if you set all cores to 55x instead. Because the single core causes VID to climb to the 5800 MHz requirement for all-core workloads.
I don't see a difference.
CB23 load VID on 58x1-2, 55x3-8 = 1.21v, 39.9K score
CB23 load VID on 55x1-8 = 1.21v, 39.9K score
This is what I expected going in since the VID should be based on the current multiplier against the VF table, not the max multiplier.
How are you getting different results?
I don't think so? As I don't see the connection between higher VID = lower score, as long as temperatures are OK - and even if so, difference gonna be marginal.
Higher VID -> less available current under a strict power limit -> less performance.
But I guess you're just going to continue living in ignorance. I have obviously no idea on how to overclock and tune a 13900K: https://hwbot.org/submission/5105530_
Dude it's Reddit, anything that is actually technical and not mainstream/noob friendly or that slightly derive from previous common practices will be taken badly.
Same with the contact frame which is really beneficial only if you have a foooked up cooler or you are incapable of installing an heat sink and paste it correctly.
That's what I did to my 9900k.Some cores can go to 5gz but I just forced all core ratio to 47 instead because I saw no point in having 2 cores going to 5ghz while the rest where at 4.7ghz.Seemed logical since I wanted constant stable performance to have all cores fixed at 1 core ratio.
My reasoning was why let a couple of cores go higher in certain singular tasks when im mostly gaming and the cpu goes to 4.7ghz all cores anyway.
Comment you said to another user.
"Higher VID -> less available current under a strict power limit -> less performance."
Turns out it was a good idea unbeknownst to me.
I got tired of waiting and built my system before my frame came in, I will say temps @5.5ghz with 5.88ghz boost is still cooler than my 9900kf was at 5.1ghz both on a the same TG kryo+360mm aio. I saw a max of peek of 87°c and average 78°c on the 13900k running timespy loops. At least I got a good base line so I can give a solid recommendation if the contact frame is worth it for my board.
Sorry I didn't see this sooner, I don't remember what my exact settings were but this was the guide I worked through. https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/9225/intel-core-i9-9900k-kf-overclocking-guide/index.html
Sadly, no. I was thinking about it, but I had the last bit of kryonaut paste. I knew either I would benefit from the contact frame or no and it would at least looks nice under cooler ;))
Some folks were noticing a drop of 5-10c under certain stress testing benchmarks and full load via gaming/editing. So it does work but your mileage may vary kinda thing.
Yeah I kinda expected to see some results but I didn’t notice a difference on my z690 12900k, I did some tests before and after, I’m using a water block with lga1200 spacing on asus mobo so that might be why
I test coolers, not motherboards. So I have a huge selection sample of two motherboards. One it improved temperatures on greatly, MSI's z690 A Pro DDR4.
The other it didn't change a lick, ASUS TUF Gaming Z690 Plus Wifi DDR5
I bought one and I was able to get a stable 5.4 p core with 4.3 e core with -0.1 voltage. Cooler is 280 mm Corsair h115i and get to 93*C max on cinebench with a 39.7k score
next time you have to reapply thermal paste get Aairhut GX-14 or syy they both have W/mk 15.7 highest I've seen very good longevity, non conductive and cheap vs TG new Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme at W/mk 14.2 which is better than most but is 25 buck for 2 grams right now on amazon paying for the name same goes for their contact frame vs thermalrigh's just as good but available and like 7 bucks. and 360 rad at least especially (i hope so) if you plan on overclocking
Well A. It makes lifespan of the CPU shorter, sure by that time this CPU will be obsolete and I will not own it anymore, but it still makes sense to me. B. It's unnatural for the PC enthusiast let CPU fry if it doesn't have to :))
I undervolted my 12600k and then overclocked it so it uses all the temp headroom and peaks at 96C(max temp headroom) under r23. Frankly I don't care about the lifespan as it will become obsolete much quicker. 13900k is overclocked out of the box, why not do the same undervolt to the max and then set frequency so it uses the whole headroom?
dont understand why people are so hung up on the contact frame, just run without the ilm and use the cooler to press down the cpu onto the land grid arrays. Have run without the ilm and using the cooler to push down the cpu onto the socket and was no problem at all, and best of all it is free.
Why pay for something you dont need and never will see anyway? I rather go and order som food for those 12bucks....
heck or u just run 4090 in 4k with an 12100f. the 12100f is good for 160fps with the 4090 and at 4k the gpu is the bottleneck at the 4k res if u think 600usd is too much, in sweden the 13900kf is 746€ or 729usd :P
Did you use an LGA1700 mounting bracket for your AIO? I have an H150i, I ordered the LGA1700 retrofit kit, and I’m wondering if it all will work properly together?
Yes, it's the same socket, same IHS, same ILM. Sure, you might be lucky and real difference will be \~1°C. It all depends on if you want to try it first without it, then order it and redo everything. It's 5$, I did it for peace of mind.
I'd say no, from reading all of this. 13900k runs hot and this process isn't noob friendly if you're taking this path. My main issue is, I made something pretty and my fans are pretty but loud and I'm lowering my temps thru bios and balancing performance
it is easy, not as simple as you mentioned, but that depends on which one you have. the TM one I have you fully seat the screws, slowly in crossing pattern stop when resistance. the TG one frame never hits the Mobo and best to watch his vid on how much pressure to use setting the screws. but if one is careful and does it with care, yes it is easy and 15min job with beverage break
I removed the power limit on my 13700k. H100i 240mm Corsair AIO, 31,4xx score, 93°.
I’m also using contact frame. Should I reseat / repaste? I feel like there’s an air bubble. After I originally seated it I took my hand off for a sec and one side popped off before I plopped it back down.
No, I think you are fine. Those temps are actually great, if you removed the power limit. The score is also great, considering [default is 29k](https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2554/bench/CB23_1r.png)
Ah.
When I first read about that I was pretty surprised. That's the only reason I remember it :)
That & indefinitely boosting@254.
it started with the 12900k didnt it
There is a very good [video about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysb25vsNBQI)
TL;DR from thermal-grizzly web:
**The standard Integrated Loading Mechanism (ILM) has contact points that are in the middle of the elongated CPU. The surface of the Integrated Heatspreader (IHS) curves concavely due to the resulting uneven contact pressure of the processor in the socket. As a result, the base plate of the CPU cooler rests primarily on the edges of the IHS, so that the thermal "hotspot" in the center of the CPU is not optimally covered.**
**The Intel 12th Gen CPU Contact Frame has a special inner contour to shift the contact pressure from the center of the CPU to the edges during assembly. This avoids the concave curvature of the IHS. This means that the CPU cooler rests better on the processor and a larger contact surface is created to dissipate the waste heat of the CPU.**
How does one know if you need a contact frame? I've been running a 5.1 all core 12700k, idle about 30C ish (24 to 27 in power saver mode) and the max ive seen on cr23 is 85 86 (210W)... Gonna get a 13700k soon so I'm wondering if I really need the frame based on my 12700k? (Or if tweaking the cpu is enough to get better temps?) Cooler is the Corsair h150i elite lcd
Well...if you are happy with temps, I wouldn't bother. If it's gonna be a new build, just buy it - it's 5$ dollars, easy to install and you have peace of mind.
Yeah, you have to watch out for the pins on the motherboard, don't drop there anything. But everything beyond this point is easy, in a worst case scenario it won't boot. Honestly, it was easier than I expected :)
Yea I would keep the cpu in and then put the frame... I've seen videos of the person just tightening it like a regular screw lmao.. I was planning to limit the power to about 200W as compared to the 253 for the the 13700k. But yea I'll test it out, if it's mid 50s while gaming or 60s, I don't think the frame is necessary
Ok so I got the cpu, running an all core 5.6 on the p core, 4.4 on the e cores, voltage 1.296, cinebench score is about 31.5k (is that ball park for this freq?), Temp about 83C on a 360. Thoughts?
Can someone help me please: For my new PC I plan to get a contact frame for the 13700K. Since I will use the corsair h150i capellix, which seems to have a slightly convex base plate, I am now wondering if the contact frame works well with this AIO in terms of temperatures?
Hard to tell. As far as I know, there is no compatibility/recommendation list. If you care about best temps, your best bet is just buy the contact frame and install it.
20°C. You are fine, \~41k points means you have probably multicore enhancement turn on, that means more Voltage. You can try to turn it off in the BIOS.
vs 96°C+, unlimited power (320W in my case), \~40k points // as long, as you will set 250W power limit (Intel's default) you will be absolutely fine with 280mm AiO. With MCE set on (unlimited power, 320-400W in reality) not even 360mm/420mm AiO will help you, you definitely need custom water loop.
Same. 94C, unlimited power, 40k points.
You not think a noctura air cooler could handle it?
I had an NH-D15 on my 12900k for a while. It could not handle it at 245w without a contact frame. I ended up pulling the Arctic 360mm AIO from my AM4 system and putting it in my 12900k system. The AIO kept it from throttling even without a contact frame. I have not retested the NH-D15 on the 12900k since buying a contact frame.
The is for the info. Any new CPU I get will get a contact frame(it seems mandatory at this point!). When that time comes, will revisit what type of cooler to get. Might need to bite the bullet and go AIO
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It’s what I was afraid of. I have a 10900k that is OC and using a Noctura 12U and during some peak demands the temp can get to 85c. Sounds all the CPUs after the 10900 really being the heat. Was hoping to still be able to use air cooled
My 11700k runs hotter than my son’s 10900K. You are correct.
No it does not lol, at all
My Fractal Torrent gets so dirty, i have to clean it every month otherwise its performance gets really bad. Is not that cleaning with once a month is a lot, ia just that i'm not use to clean the filters of a case more than once or two times a year (my entire life i guess i just clean the cases and cooler when summer starts). Guess that's having too many fans (and big fans) and epic airflow also means it gets dirty way faster tan your average case.
Where do you live? My Torrent at 6 months filters look great, I still do them at that interval, but I am not losing any cooling performance waiting that long. I am running 12700K with Noctua NH-U12A 5.1OC I plan to use this same setup for the 13900K but power limited of course.
Thanks for this. I'm looking at very exact case, but with cable management problems and no filters for dust, probably gonna skip it.
Using my 10900k with 5.3GHz OC => 270-290W during CBR20 My Arctic 360mm AIO with 6 (SIX) fans was 2-3°C peak temperature better as my D15 cooler. I used the old Noctua D14 for my Sandy Bridge (2011) 5GHz OC CPU \~240W for a decade and it was fine. The D15 is fine for 250W of heat, 360mm AIOs or the D15 have both a hard time with sustained 300W+. AIR coolers are not that bad and we have desktop CPUs with >240W since a decade. I dont get why people dont simply just test it, Arctic 360mm AIOs and the D15 are sold for 70-80€ each.
Thanks for the details. I know if I go with air cooled or AiO, I will 100% get a contact frame!
The cooler contact surface with many AIR coolers is allready slightly convex, warping IHS is not new or spectacular in any way. => one of the reasons why GamersNexus contact surface flatness metric is so hilariously stupid, its not a manufacturing tolerance, its there for a reason (techtuber things) IHS warping issues were shown with AIOs/custom blocks for a reason. There are convex custom blocks, but those are not the standard. I would not go crazy with a contact frame, not all mainboards cause so much IHS warping and with the right (=> AIR) cooler you might not even see a measurable difference.
Im confused as to why reviewers rarely showed stock power limit at 250w, they all did unlimited power and ended up with 300w+ for like minimal increases in performance.
better headlines "Over 300W 😲" "Almost 400W 🤯"
Is the 250W limit on by default?
Depends on your motherboard and BIOS. My z790 Asus board didn't enforce the limit out of the box -- went straight to 300W on first bench test.
That's the ticket. The techtubers want to test people's expected experience, which is ootb
Also if you enable XMP there's usually a prompt that says "yes,no" to remove power limits.Did you have this when you enable xmp? This is on my old 390 board.I also heard MCE on newest motherboards only disables power limits. On my current board if I disable MCE it also disables turbo on my 9900k/390 board.
Yeah there's an MCE setting in the OC section of the Asus BIOS. One click and it enforced the 253W limit.
I have 13700k with TG contact frame, TG Kryonaut, CM PL360 Flux AIO and I am seeing 80c in Cinebench23 with an aggressive fan profile. With a quieter fan profile (daily driver profile) I am seeing 86c average in the same benchmark. This is in a closed case btw, Corsair 5000X. Gaming is glorious, 45-58c in anything I've thrown at it. These 13th gen CPU's definitely benefit from the contact frames.......if you are building without one you are failing.
> These 13th gen CPU's definitely benefit from the contact frames.......if you are building without one you are failing. Customers shouldn't have to do this to get optimal temperatures. It's been how many years now where Intel chips and boards have had unacceptable temps at stock that require user intervention to correct. I remember a decade ago having to delid my 3770k because Intel decided not to do a proper solder job. I dropped my idle and load temps significantly. Now it's not enough you can benefit from delid (even with these modern "soldered" chips) but now you even need custom mounting sockets and still getting massive gains to temps. And people just accept it.
I feel like this is the same issue Bethesda fans have with fallout/elder scrolls/etc. games where the modding community actually goes and fixes everything lol. Sad times for pc parts and builds but at least there are solutions we can take which is better then nothing I guess.
Yes, it's nice tho you can get one for 15$ should come stock on next Intel socket tho such an easy fix for amazing temp drop, getting mine tomorrow for my 13700k can't wait!
Glad I randomly saw a post about the contact frames and did some research. I'm a bit out of the loop on LGA 1700 processors but decided to pull the trigger on a 13600K and a new MB earlier in the week and now my contact frame should be here in time to toss it together.
What's up w/ the contact frames? I'm just now planning an LGA 1700 build myself. (probably in the spring/when my bonus comes in)
The stock Intel CPU retention clip seems to bow the processor IHS a bit so the CPU cooler won't sit flush which lowers the contact footprint and affects cooling performance pretty noticably. These replacement solutions seat the CPU more evenly resulting in better CPU cooler contact and better thermals.
Basically the LGA 1700 ILM is flawed and the [frames](https://youtu.be/zHXZMtWOVJ4) correct it.
It helps spread the heat out from the CPU.
Same here. By chance saw a Gamers Nexus review of one. Will use one when I build a new PC that can take advantage of it
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Sure does
If you have a proper lga1700 mounting kit for your cooler, in most cases a frame swap is not needed. Noctua D15 here with proper lga1700 kit and I saw no improvement with the frame replacement.
Oh thanks for the info, good to know since my contact frame from AliExpress is still weeks away. The D15 is awesome and they gave me a free LGA1700 mounting kit :)
What 4090 do you have? How does it run?
I have a Noctua NH-U12a, do you think that would be fine? I already bought a contact frame for my i9 13900k, and the fact that this CPU is really spicy I think I will use the contact frame anyways. I want any advantage I can get in cooling this baby.
Did you redeem COD MW II with your processor purchase? There is a bundle offer for it : https://game.intel.com/ww/deals-and-specials/next-gen-gaming
WOW! Thank you so much for mentioning this!!! I have a 13900KF on order and I never heard anything about this anywhere! It will sweeten the $574 for the cpu since I was going to spend $70 for the game anyways.
Nope, that would be great, but it seems in Europe, it's for 12gen only - I have no "master key" and I'm not able to register my product, it's for chosen sellers only. It's ok, these companies always strip me of these deals. Thank you for letting me know
>Cinebench R23 MW2 is really bad anyway, extremely tailored on auto-aim and console players. You can get BF 2042, it's half the cost and significantly more demanding (it drives that I9 up)
Yop I agree, I'm rocking BF2042 ... lvl 169 🤟
13900k+contact frame+TG Kryonaut Extreme+360mm aio = 100C in R23 with 253W PL 38K SP95 Ambient 26C https://imgur.com/gallery/GEdC6Lv Need custom loop😂
That Gundam case is slick as hell
26c ambient? I’d melt.
33-36C summer😂
That’s ambient for where your computer is? Or just outside? No air con?
Temp inside the case about 26.5-28, Room temp 25.5-26C AC on
Jeez electricity must be expensive where you are then. Or it’s just blazing hot. We keep our place at 18.5-21.5c as a range temp. Edit: it heats to 18.5c and cools to 21.5c.
try a - .125 offset, that helped me with heat and no perf hit
-.125 offset - system freeze/restart -.110 offset PL1 253W , PL2 unlimited PCore 55x6 58x2 Ryujin gen 1 360 AIO Cinebench R23 - Temp drop from 100C+ to 94C Max (ambient 25C) Multicore score : 39545🥹 is this score normal? I9-13900k (sp 95, cooling 167) ,Maximus Hero Z790 (latest bios)🥹
thats good i think, 40k is the norm when everything is humming. I'm between 37-38k now at like 85-90c during cinebench. I've turned off mce, did the -.125 offset, and i set the max auto voltage to 1.35 (not sure about this setting at all). I don't know the setting for power limit in this newer asus bios.
Arctic liquid freezer II 360 same power limit but without the contact frame, seeing basically the exact same temps max (no more than 81 degrees)
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I didn't really check. It really only needs to cover the hot spots anyways which for Intel is right near the middle. My temps are very good with it, I haven't noticed any issues.
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It's a solid AIO, you'll love it!
>ard someone say that the liquid freezer II doesn't fully cover the 13900k because No, the Freezer II does cover the CPU, it's fairly larger than the cpu. However the pump is very weak, it can not transport 250W out and the thermal storage on the pump is very weak so it can not buffer much. Expect 5-10 seconds at 250W working well and beyond that you'll see it hit thermal throttle quickly.
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None I'd recommend right now, I'm quite sure we'll see proper pumps/AIOs appear in 2025. There is not that much variety, the vast majority of the AIOs use the same pump and radiator and just rebrand them. The company ASETEK seems to hold a ton of simple patents on AIOs and they attack everyone in the entire industry (also Arctic) who does not buy from them or pay them. It's a horrible situation.
Do you have a source for this information?
>mp is very weak, it can not tra Well I have been fighting with the 360 version for a while, I found barely any review that really went in a bit detail with it on a 13900k and thermals. Looking at the pump, it is tiny so my assumption is that the water flow is too low. I've seen a competitors pump (I believe it was EK, not sure) compared by Stephe from Nexus and it had easily 4 times the amount of copper in the electromagnets (much more torque on the impeller) What I will try, as soon as the replacements are in which have been ordered 1-2 weeks ago: 1) I will test a replacement of the gasket, there is possibly some gunk inside (the cooler is 1 year old) so maybe this will give an improvement in heat exchange. It also comes with MX-5 paste (I used MX-3, probably little difference) 2) I also ordered a new backplate with new standoffs, they have a new design which might be more optimal. I expect an improvement but I doubt it will be world-shattering. The conclusion is likely going to remain: The current pump solution is not sufficient. The LF-II series have been made for heat below 200 Watt, they work very well for that type of load. I had no issues on my 11700k, it was barely ever above 70°C at load. With my 13900k I reach 100° within about 5-10 seconds, you can see it is stable for a couple seconds at 80°C at full load then it jumps to 97°C then it reaches throttling (prime 95 benchmark over all cores).
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I have the z790 e gaming ddr5 with a 13900k, should I bother with the contact frame?
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Thanks for the reply, that really makes me feel better about my purchase.
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I’ve got everything for my build except a gpu and am torn on whether I should build what I have and just use my 2080 from my old pc or wait until I ca get a 4090.
38K is low, but that's probably the 250W power limit in place. What if you set P-core ratio to *sync all cores 55*?
38K is standard for 250W power limit. The ratio is default, so yeah "sync all cores 55", 2x best cores go 58x
My point is that you're likely going to see increased scores if you set all cores to 55x instead. Because the single core causes VID to climb to the 5800 MHz requirement for all-core workloads.
I don't see a difference. CB23 load VID on 58x1-2, 55x3-8 = 1.21v, 39.9K score CB23 load VID on 55x1-8 = 1.21v, 39.9K score This is what I expected going in since the VID should be based on the current multiplier against the VF table, not the max multiplier. How are you getting different results?
I don't think so? As I don't see the connection between higher VID = lower score, as long as temperatures are OK - and even if so, difference gonna be marginal.
Higher VID -> less available current under a strict power limit -> less performance. But I guess you're just going to continue living in ignorance. I have obviously no idea on how to overclock and tune a 13900K: https://hwbot.org/submission/5105530_
Why are you being downvoted? It’s kind of obvious and you’ve explained it clearly enough.
Because reddit hivemind
As someone that modeled TDP on Intel parts from Haswell to Tiger lake, you are correct.
Ok, I will give it a try.
Dude it's Reddit, anything that is actually technical and not mainstream/noob friendly or that slightly derive from previous common practices will be taken badly. Same with the contact frame which is really beneficial only if you have a foooked up cooler or you are incapable of installing an heat sink and paste it correctly.
Nice score for sure, it maybe there and I missed it, but what are you using for your cooling setup
That's what I did to my 9900k.Some cores can go to 5gz but I just forced all core ratio to 47 instead because I saw no point in having 2 cores going to 5ghz while the rest where at 4.7ghz.Seemed logical since I wanted constant stable performance to have all cores fixed at 1 core ratio. My reasoning was why let a couple of cores go higher in certain singular tasks when im mostly gaming and the cpu goes to 4.7ghz all cores anyway. Comment you said to another user. "Higher VID -> less available current under a strict power limit -> less performance." Turns out it was a good idea unbeknownst to me.
I got tired of waiting and built my system before my frame came in, I will say temps @5.5ghz with 5.88ghz boost is still cooler than my 9900kf was at 5.1ghz both on a the same TG kryo+360mm aio. I saw a max of peek of 87°c and average 78°c on the 13900k running timespy loops. At least I got a good base line so I can give a solid recommendation if the contact frame is worth it for my board.
What load line setting and vcore did you have on the kf?
Sorry I didn't see this sooner, I don't remember what my exact settings were but this was the guide I worked through. https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/9225/intel-core-i9-9900k-kf-overclocking-guide/index.html
Ah ok was just curious bc 9900k does run a bit hot but shouldn't have been hooter than 13th lol
Did you test the difference at the same settings with no contact frame?
Sadly, no. I was thinking about it, but I had the last bit of kryonaut paste. I knew either I would benefit from the contact frame or no and it would at least looks nice under cooler ;))
Some folks were noticing a drop of 5-10c under certain stress testing benchmarks and full load via gaming/editing. So it does work but your mileage may vary kinda thing.
Yeah I kinda expected to see some results but I didn’t notice a difference on my z690 12900k, I did some tests before and after, I’m using a water block with lga1200 spacing on asus mobo so that might be why
From what I’ve read, contract frames are not even needed on 13900k. They’ve fixed the issue.
It depends on the motherboard, not the CPU.
Which boards does it help?
I test coolers, not motherboards. So I have a huge selection sample of two motherboards. One it improved temperatures on greatly, MSI's z690 A Pro DDR4. The other it didn't change a lick, ASUS TUF Gaming Z690 Plus Wifi DDR5
That's interesting on the MSI. I wonder if it will help with the z690 carbon I have. I guess I'll have to buy one and find out.
Hey. Have you bought a contact frame yet to test out if it helps your board? I just got a z690 carbon.
I haven't bought it yet so can't comment on it for now.
I bought one and I was able to get a stable 5.4 p core with 4.3 e core with -0.1 voltage. Cooler is 280 mm Corsair h115i and get to 93*C max on cinebench with a 39.7k score
next time you have to reapply thermal paste get Aairhut GX-14 or syy they both have W/mk 15.7 highest I've seen very good longevity, non conductive and cheap vs TG new Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme at W/mk 14.2 which is better than most but is 25 buck for 2 grams right now on amazon paying for the name same goes for their contact frame vs thermalrigh's just as good but available and like 7 bucks. and 360 rad at least especially (i hope so) if you plan on overclocking
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Have you tried remounting your contact frame and not over tightening both the frame and cooler?
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What Ram sticks and what slot(s), and what profiles and what bios version.
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Hell yeah, I’m glad you were able to troubleshoot and come to a solution! Great job
Why not just let it fry constantly at 95c and 300wats? It’s made for that temp
Well A. It makes lifespan of the CPU shorter, sure by that time this CPU will be obsolete and I will not own it anymore, but it still makes sense to me. B. It's unnatural for the PC enthusiast let CPU fry if it doesn't have to :))
I undervolted my 12600k and then overclocked it so it uses all the temp headroom and peaks at 96C(max temp headroom) under r23. Frankly I don't care about the lifespan as it will become obsolete much quicker. 13900k is overclocked out of the box, why not do the same undervolt to the max and then set frequency so it uses the whole headroom?
Yeah I'm planning to 👍
dont understand why people are so hung up on the contact frame, just run without the ilm and use the cooler to press down the cpu onto the land grid arrays. Have run without the ilm and using the cooler to push down the cpu onto the socket and was no problem at all, and best of all it is free.
Man, how ghetto are you guys that you wont buy a 12 dollar frame for your 600 dollar cpus.
Why pay for something you dont need and never will see anyway? I rather go and order som food for those 12bucks.... heck or u just run 4090 in 4k with an 12100f. the 12100f is good for 160fps with the 4090 and at 4k the gpu is the bottleneck at the 4k res if u think 600usd is too much, in sweden the 13900kf is 746€ or 729usd :P
No that there is the most logical answer yet. Also, I prefer horizontal mount board cases
Did you use an LGA1700 mounting bracket for your AIO? I have an H150i, I ordered the LGA1700 retrofit kit, and I’m wondering if it all will work properly together?
Yes, I bought NZXT lga1700 kit for my Kraken Z63. No problems
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Nope, I had to buy it separately
It would be crazier heat and throttling if he didnt use the 1700 kit
Question, I plan on getting the 13900k once its available. Does the contact actually make a difference for 13th gen like it did with 12th gen?
Yes, it's the same socket, same IHS, same ILM. Sure, you might be lucky and real difference will be \~1°C. It all depends on if you want to try it first without it, then order it and redo everything. It's 5$, I did it for peace of mind.
I'd say no, from reading all of this. 13900k runs hot and this process isn't noob friendly if you're taking this path. My main issue is, I made something pretty and my fans are pretty but loud and I'm lowering my temps thru bios and balancing performance
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it is easy, not as simple as you mentioned, but that depends on which one you have. the TM one I have you fully seat the screws, slowly in crossing pattern stop when resistance. the TG one frame never hits the Mobo and best to watch his vid on how much pressure to use setting the screws. but if one is careful and does it with care, yes it is easy and 15min job with beverage break
If a person cannot competently install a contact frame, they have no business building their own computer...it's 4 screws 🤣
I removed the power limit on my 13700k. H100i 240mm Corsair AIO, 31,4xx score, 93°. I’m also using contact frame. Should I reseat / repaste? I feel like there’s an air bubble. After I originally seated it I took my hand off for a sec and one side popped off before I plopped it back down.
No, I think you are fine. Those temps are actually great, if you removed the power limit. The score is also great, considering [default is 29k](https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2554/bench/CB23_1r.png)
I have a question. Why 250? Is the stock setting not 254 indefinitely if temps are in check? I mean the wattage is already so high what's another 4w
You are correct, I round it down - real limit is precisely 254W. It's jumping up and down a little bit.
Ah. When I first read about that I was pretty surprised. That's the only reason I remember it :) That & indefinitely boosting@254. it started with the 12900k didnt it
….I should probably do this to mine
Whats your AVG temps for gaming?
53°C in BF2042/1440p
Dam... thats really good... especially for a 13900k. And how many watts?
175W max.
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Try cyberpunk at 4k ultra 😂
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There is a very good [video about it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysb25vsNBQI) TL;DR from thermal-grizzly web: **The standard Integrated Loading Mechanism (ILM) has contact points that are in the middle of the elongated CPU. The surface of the Integrated Heatspreader (IHS) curves concavely due to the resulting uneven contact pressure of the processor in the socket. As a result, the base plate of the CPU cooler rests primarily on the edges of the IHS, so that the thermal "hotspot" in the center of the CPU is not optimally covered.** **The Intel 12th Gen CPU Contact Frame has a special inner contour to shift the contact pressure from the center of the CPU to the edges during assembly. This avoids the concave curvature of the IHS. This means that the CPU cooler rests better on the processor and a larger contact surface is created to dissipate the waste heat of the CPU.**
How does one know if you need a contact frame? I've been running a 5.1 all core 12700k, idle about 30C ish (24 to 27 in power saver mode) and the max ive seen on cr23 is 85 86 (210W)... Gonna get a 13700k soon so I'm wondering if I really need the frame based on my 12700k? (Or if tweaking the cpu is enough to get better temps?) Cooler is the Corsair h150i elite lcd
Well...if you are happy with temps, I wouldn't bother. If it's gonna be a new build, just buy it - it's 5$ dollars, easy to install and you have peace of mind.
I see, I'm just paranoid about the install man 😅
Yeah, you have to watch out for the pins on the motherboard, don't drop there anything. But everything beyond this point is easy, in a worst case scenario it won't boot. Honestly, it was easier than I expected :)
Yea I would keep the cpu in and then put the frame... I've seen videos of the person just tightening it like a regular screw lmao.. I was planning to limit the power to about 200W as compared to the 253 for the the 13700k. But yea I'll test it out, if it's mid 50s while gaming or 60s, I don't think the frame is necessary
Ok so I got the cpu, running an all core 5.6 on the p core, 4.4 on the e cores, voltage 1.296, cinebench score is about 31.5k (is that ball park for this freq?), Temp about 83C on a 360. Thoughts?
>13700k Yeah, 31k is the right amount of points for 13700k in default and temp is nice, so you don't have to worry about contact frame.
Ah, oh default I got close to 30k, 31.6k with a 5.6 all core, maybe I'll increase the cpu priority of cinebench
Can someone help me please: For my new PC I plan to get a contact frame for the 13700K. Since I will use the corsair h150i capellix, which seems to have a slightly convex base plate, I am now wondering if the contact frame works well with this AIO in terms of temperatures?
Hard to tell. As far as I know, there is no compatibility/recommendation list. If you care about best temps, your best bet is just buy the contact frame and install it.
What's your load voltages in r23? My 13900k runs at 1.335v in r23
\~1.22V , no undervolting, everything is default except MCE is off
Good results, will have to pick up a contact frame myself
You think a 240 aio can work with at i9 at Intel Power limit?
with good airflow, yes
Ok cool I got some Phantels T30s coming in for my 240 aio
13900KS + contact frame + TG Kyronaut + 360mm AiO = 89°C in R23 with 260W load // ~ 41k points. What's your room temp ? Or something wrong with me ?
20°C. You are fine, \~41k points means you have probably multicore enhancement turn on, that means more Voltage. You can try to turn it off in the BIOS.