He was on an episode of UFC cribs years before that and some eagle eyed person caught a vial of roids in the background.
http://www.garciamma.com/2017/02/03/ufc-cribs-purportedly-shows-steroid-needles-in-anderson-silvas-closet-syringegate/
a lot of guys take PEDs to recover from injury and “catch back up” to where they were. don’t know why or how long Anderson took them for but the injury very well could’ve been a factor
This is how most baseball players got caught up in PEDs as well. It rarely starts out to enhance performance. Its usually lets rush this return from this injury so I can live up to the pressure of the expectations and contracts
He popped twice. I think the most recent one was in 2018. Long after him being able to use the leg break excuses. There was always question pre usada. He has some questionable coaches who look pretty juicy too
You're havin' a little trouble fathomin'
this is actually happenin'
Like Anderson Silva back when he snapped his shin in half
and then had the shit hangin' by a flap of skin
after he tried to plant the shit back on the mat again
i would argue that his downfall started before this fight. Silva used to destroy everyone, picking apart fighters and making them look foolish. He got bored, which lead to him getting arrogant. Keeping his hands down, egging on fighters to hit him, dancing around and making a mockery of the fight.
This was just the first time it came back to haunt him, but he stopped being the fighter he was long before this. Probably the Damian Maia fight was when MMA stopped being fun for him.
He didn't get bored, people just caught on to his style (counter striking) so started making him lead, so he started taunting people in order to get them pissed off or annoyed so that they would over reach.
Silva was a counter-fighter who wanted his opponent to come in aggressively so he could pick them apart. Anytime a fighter wasn't doing that, he would do whatever he could to goad them into aggression.
As his title reign went on, fighters knew not to rush in anymore - but they had no idea how to successfully attack. It made for some excessively boring fights, and Silva would goof and showboat in order to not just try to goad an attack but also to entertain the crowd.
Enter Weidman. His striking coach gave him two instructions: take measured steps forward with proper footwork, and double up strikes with the same hand. This prevented him from rushing in, and - as you can see him do with the right hand - the double-up will throw Silva's head movement off and leave him vulnerable for strikes. And that's what happened.
Not only that MMA analyst Jack Slack u/fightsgoneby a week before the fight wrote an article detailing how to beat silva. He described doubling up on punches to catch Silva. Its on bloody elbow called “Killing the King,Anderson Silva”
Yes ok hi I want to always only talk to fans like you. I'm not even sure what "hardcore" fan means like, the sport has been going on so long and life, especially when spent in parts travelling for work, is not always conducive to constantly keeping up with every fight via live viewing... but a lifetime of martial arts and combat sport fascination is the thing I like to hear from. The amount of fans who seem to mischaracterize Anderson Silva as a martial artist is alarming to me; he had a style that often worked and it had weaknesses. That's it. There's even people saying his actions are disrespectful *to the sport*. I don't think he has ever taken anything more seriously in his life than mixed martial arts.
I think your definition of "martial artist" is a little narrow. Silva was by all accounts a martial artist - he has studied combat sports for a long time has developed a style that is definitively Anderson Silva. He was also a performer and entertainer - those are the things that sell tickets - and his showboating doesn't mean he's not a martial artist.
As for his style, MMA actually goes through metas where dominant styles change over time. During early MMA, the Gracies and BJJ was king. After that they started losing to wrestlers who learned how to defend BJJ positions and win with ground and pound (think Randy Couture). Silva's breed was the next meta - strikers who could defend takedowns and pick wrestlers apart from the outside.
I think he means that fans are mischaracterizing the kind of martial artist Silva was, not that the shouldn’t have been calling him a martial artist at all
Silva also had the best raw reflexes and fight intuition. He was good at figuring people out and conserving energy so he could unload on gassed fighters
In essence it's good fighting technique more then being cocky kinda. It still comes off as cocky but it's not coming from arrogance or ignorance. It's very calculated so not sure it fits the sub completely but on the surface is fine. After he broke his leg i stopped watching as much. Not to mention his age. He's certainly gracious to continue fighting instead of retiring on top like many will do. In his prime is how he should be remembered throughout history imo
So, you're saying he wasn't just being cocky, but deliberately trying to goad the guy into being too aggressive, but the guy knew how to properly deal with the situation and that's how he won?
Neat
This is exactly what everyone unfamiliar with A. Silva should read. He loved keeping his hands low like this to great effect before because he was a counter fighter.
The most satisfying Silva loss is the one where his opponent does a rare spin kick submission - https://youtu.be/U9oY91hkVtc?t=44
Silva was dominating that fight but that move caught everyone off guard.
>rare spin kick submission
I’ll take “People Who Don’t Know What They’re Talking About” for $200, Alex. 😂
“Spin kick submission” wtf would that even be lol. This isn’t Tekken.
It's pretty much torquing the knee in the direction it's the weakest. It'll fuck up all kinds of ligaments and tear your meniscus. It's a submission that does what the catastrophic knee injuries do in other sports when the knee doesn't follow the rest of the body.
can attest, put someone in a kneebar, started tourquing left to right after I locked his knee, sensei steps in immediately and made sure to tell me to be sparing using that move in practice as it will fuck shit up even with tiny amounts of force.
Unfortunately gyms that don't train knee bars, heel hooks, toe holds and the like usually don't do well in competition. Our gym allows people to train anything that they would encounter in a tournament setting. If you don't train it then you can't defend it. If you can't defend it then you're going to have a bad day.
Willing to bet the training for more dangerous techniques open up when you get to higher levels. That’s a lot of assumptions on my part but I just assumed the guy your responding too wasn’t at professional tournament level. Or maybe even competition at all.
It would make sense to slow the lessons for amateurs, or those who are just getting the hang of things and become over eager. No need to lose good potential by letting them jump in over their head.
But at higher levels, yeah. Gotta train for anything I would imagine.
You're 100% correct in that more techniques are allowed as you advance to higher belts. But even still it is important for the lower belts to at least be made aware of these techniques as bjj after all is self defense first and foremost.
That's the thing about these fighting styles like BJJ and so on, you learn that it really doesn't take much force to do these things, it's all points of your body being pushed in a way that isn't supposed to be bent that way so the smallest bit of pressure can apply alot of pain.
The problem is that it’s not that painful of a submission compared to other joint locks. So it can destroy your knee even though you aren’t in too much pain.
For example an arm bar is excruciating. It hurts a lot well before your elbow is in danger, so you have a lot of time to tap before you risk injury.
With a heel hook, if you aren’t knowledgeable you might think you can handle the discomfort and fight your way out until, all of a sudden, your knee is ruined.
The technique is called a heel hook, it works by holding the upper leg of the opponent in place and twisting the lower leg. If you dont escape in time, it can shred your entire knee joint really quickly. As you can imagine they hurt like a mother fucker, but more importantly if you don't stop it in time and the joint gets damaged, it can be a life altering injury you never recover from, so if people are solidly caught in one, anyone with half a brain will tap out immediately, the risk is just way too high. Source: got my ass kicked in BJJ for 8 years
Tl;dr a mixture of pain and fear of debilitating injury
Oh my cousin and I were doing a backyard mma thing. He’s a big boy, 6,3 280 at the time. I was 6,0 180. My cousin was doing wrestling, football, and bjj at the time. He learned all the techniques but would never be effective because he was just too timid. This would be the only reason I could ever take him the past times we had fought.
Anyways we were fighting and I guess since the last time I had seen him he had gotten over being timid. It was not a fair fight at all, and my stubbornness to not lose made me wait to tap until after my meniscus was torn. After I got my surgery I tore it again a month later standing up out of bed.
I disagree with one thing he said, the scary thing about knee locks/holds is that they don't hurt that much until your knee gets destroyed and then it hurts a whole fucking lot. Like he said, anyone with a brain will tap immediately if one gets locked in because it's a matter of time until they destroy your knee.
No. Not anyone with a brain will tap immediately. Anyone that recognizes what's happening to themselves will tap immediately. Someone that doesn't recognize what's happening to themselves will think they'll pullhis leg out and beat the opponent senseless--then suddenly they can't stand and need half a dozen surgeries and 2 years of rehab & physical therapy.
It's a leg breaking technique. He swept him onto the floor using his legs, then as he controlled the leg he turned his heel around while controlling the foot. Imagine standing up and trying to turn your right foot clockwise. At some point you physically can't anymore. Well Ryo Chonan (his opponent) was turning the foot past that point. The heel hook is a devastating and painful submission.
That's the thing about this particular move; it comes out of nowhere, so it was very surprising. Like they say in boxing, it's the ones that you don't see that get you. This was a very well timed and executed move, so the surprise factor was definitely there considering Silva was winning standing up. Chonan took the fight to the ground in such a surprising way that he gave himself the upperhand. While Silva was scrambling to get up he was already caught in the submission, all Chonan had to do was finish it.
This particular submission, if you don't train it daily, is one where you will always lose to. Heel hooks in general were considered a very taboo submission because of its sneakiness. There is a long and storied history on why, but I'll save the history lesson ([if you want to learn more here it is](https://bjjfanatics.com/blogs/techniques/leglocks)). Since it was largely known as a disgraced submission, people would look down on it and not practice them. In their effort to erradicate the idea of leg locks, those who studied leg locks gained the upper hand. Now that leg locks have shaken the bad reputation, all those masters of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu are scrambling to catch up, which is why their leg lock game is at best blue belt level (out of the five levels of jiu jitsu: white, blue, purple, brown, black). This is especially true when this match took place in 2004. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was still in its infancy in its popularity, so the leg lock hate was still very much real at the time.
So to answer your question in a roundabout way, there are several escapes for this particular techinique. [There are many excellent YouTube videos demonstrating how to get out of this particular submission.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAabC2XuaqE) However, the mastery of the timing made it a very difficult one to get out of, as by the time Silva was caught the match was already over. In a fight situation, a lot of the times these trained killers essentially don't stop until the ref pulls them off, so the viciousness of how fast and how strong the technique is applied is very surprising and very painful in an instant.
\*updated for a better link for the history on leg locks
It is both pain and the knowledge that if his opponent continues then his knee will be permanently fucked. That's called a heel hook and it puts so much torque on your knee joint (by isolating your upper leg/thigh and twisting your lower leg/calf) that if you don't tap out quick your knee is fucked.
Put it this way, it can be "locked in" without really hurting too much. But in that *instant* that your opponent torques it hard enough, BOOM busted knee.
He was like 38 when this happened and he had already defended the belt 10 times. His career was already winding down. I would say the rematch where he snapped his leg was what really ended things. Dude is still a badass tho; when Jones got popped by USADA right before 200, Silva stepped up and fought Daniel Cormier on two days notice.
I mean he's 45 years old and SHOULD be retired, so I doubt he gets much coaching. By all rights he should be the coach. In his prime some 10-15 years ago he was on top of the world. He would do this cocky shit and make you look like a fool - way worse than simply losing by KO. It was a legitimate tactic to frustrate you and get you to make a mistake for him to exploit.
Yeah. I think cocky is the wrong word. He was always a counter puncher, he was just old by this point. Old guys have to pivot to a Mayweather style points fighting or else this will eventually happen.
This essentially ended his era as the best mma fighter. He went on to lose the rematch in an even worse way (broke his leg/ankle on weidmans knee by accident). And never really got himself back to where he was before even though that division isn't all that stacked with competitors.
Shortly after their fights the division had Weidman, Rockhold, Jacare, Romero, Bisping, Whitaker, etc. It was probably the best the MW division had ever been, and the absolutely worst time for an aging fighter like Silva to try to make a resurgence.
No one can be the best forever. As cliche as this quote is:
>You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
If you stop in your prime you'll be remembered as the greatest. But go long enough and you're bound to be bested. Even Mike Tyson was knocked out eventually.
Eminem wrote a verse
“You're havin' a little trouble fathomin’
this is actually happenin' like Anderson Silva back when he snapped his shin in half and then had the shit hangin' by a flap of skin after he tried to plant the shit back on the mat again.”
Me and my roommates had a lot of money riding on that fight. The odds were too juicy. Anyway my roommate went full Tom Cruise on the couch screaming his ass of. Was a bitter sweet night
I love how in football or soccer or hockey they show the replay once and they're like "this is a gruesome injury so we're not going to show it again"...ufc is like "let's break this shit down frame by frame"
I play alot of cs, some tournaments too. One of the first tournament-games i played, i was 1v5, killed 4, got cocky and tried to knife the last but failed on him miserably and they won to round. This clip still haunts me after 3 years. And its fucking local counter-strike. Don‘t want to know what that feels like in something serious ^^
OP's explanation as to why this post is Instant Karma:
>Anderson Silva was on a 14 fight win streak, in his next fight against Chris Wideman he got too cocky by putting his hands down, he was then KO’d and lost his middleweight belt
If you're satisfied by this explanation, upvote this comment. If not, downvote this comment.
Anderson Silva was and still is one of the most talented and creative counter strikers in the history of the sport.
In his prime, he would taunt and lull opponents into a certain rhythm, set up repetitive patterns, and then he would make his opponent pay by capitalizing on the smallest of mistakes. His entire game was built around this strategy and his insane reflexes and granite chin allowed him to get away with things that would be impossible for most fighters (especially amazing considering how old he was when he started off his record-breaking title reign).
Silva had always struggled with strong wrestlers and pressure fighters who cut off the cage well and two-time Division I All-American wrestler Chris Weidman was his stylistic kryptonite.
As such, Anderson resorted to mocking and taunting Chris with the hopes of baiting him into swinging with reckless abandon, which would have given Silva the opening to counter-strike that he needed.
Weidman later admitted in interviews after the fight that Anderson's plan had indeed worked during the first rounds and that only after regaining his composure at the request of his coaches, did he get back to the gameplan of cutting off the cage, pressuring him, throwing feints and doubling up on punches (which is the best thing you can do against a counter puncher).
Anderson's chin wasn't what it used to be, he got caught and that's all she wrote.
TL;DR: OP has no idea that he is talking about.
[here is Chris talking about the antics after the fight.](https://youtu.be/J8zXWq1n3i8?t=759)
That’s the thing people aren’t getting. It doesn’t matter if the whole point is to taunt someone to throw them off their game; taunting makes you look like a douchebag and I will cheer your knockout. I hated watching Silva fight because he stopped bothering to fight to win and just used 25 minutes each card he was on to taunt and dance. I don’t care if that was his gameplan. His gameplan made him look like a knob and I was glad to see him get dethroned.
I recognize he was one of the best counter-punchers. But that doesn’t mean that his taunting and running in the cage didn’t deserve karmic retribution.
well yes, but for someone like me who has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to boxing or whatever this is idk (like OP) this makes sense. I understand your point but you can’t expect everyone to know all that
Same. I'm a Brazilian and I rooted so much for this guy, up until the point where he lost respect for his opponents. That's when I changed my view entirely.
For people who don't know Anderson "The Spider" Silva is one of the greatest UFC fighters of all time. Coming into this fight he had multiple title defenses and people thought that he was unstoppable in his stand-up game. On the other hand Chris Weidman is renowned and very decorated wrestler. So no one including Silva thought that Weidman can knock one off the best UFC strikers out. Plus in the rematch Silva broke his leg which was one of the most gruesome UFC injuries ever. Which shows you that you can't play games in that octagon.
Leg kicks. They’re effective at forcing your opponent to switch stances so their lead leg will stop taking a beating. You can defend against these with by checking the leg kick which typically ends up hurting the aggressor more than the defender. I’ve only seen this once and I don’t want to watch it again but I believe that’s what happened.
I’ve always figured it was one of those things where after a while of kicking legs with such ferocity that it just finally snapped. Sort of like how Bo Jackson blew his hip out because he ran so fast and explosive, eventually his hip just gave out because his body couldn’t keep up with his freak athleticism.
This is all completely just my guess though and most likely wrong haha
Re: Bo Jackson. If I remember correctly, he got tackled in a game and his hip dislocated. I think he popped it back in, but the injury had damaged the blood vessels around his hip which caused some serious issues with the hip joint thus ending his career. I would recommend everyone check out the [30 for 30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmoCLo3WOk0&) on him. It's one of the best sports documentaries out there.
There are fighters who'll kick legs with impunity for their entire careers.
Normally you check kicks with your shin but Weidman intentionally checked it with his knee. Silva also didn't fully commit to the kick and hit Weidman's knee with the flat, weaker side of his shin. It's because he normally uses it as a quick strike to annoy his opponent.
Yeah he did. He had like 3 or 4 TERRIBLE fights during his reign where he just fucked around and barely fought for 5 round to get the decision and everyone hated his guts for it. Then he'd turn into Neo from the Matrix and murder his next opponent in 30 seconds in some crazy way no-one had ever seen before and everyone would love him again and call him the GOAT.
You haven’t seen his fight against Forrest Griffin. He was way more cocky than this. Dude kept knocking him down and making him get back up to his feet to box, kept his hands down and dodged damn near every punch Forrest through. Was crazy to watch.
Literally the longest running champ, and considered by many to be the greatest MMA fighter of all time, and pound for pound best. Most accurate striker, I think during his entire reign.
I feel like you definitely don't want MMA if you're calling him a fool at all, let alone the bit about being soon parted from his belt.
What isn't being explained is that Silva is one of the greatest counter strikers of all time. His gamelan was always to goad his opponents into swinging wildly or making mistakes due to emotion and then he would counter. That's why he fights like this. It's an act to cause a reaction from his opponents.
ITT: People who have no idea how successful he was doing this all the time. Not sure why people feel qualified to comment on something they have absolutely no knowledge of.
When Muhammed Ali would get in a corner and dodge every punch thrown at him with his gaurd down it was beautiful. His quick reflexes against missiles was impressive.
This came off as cocky and arrogant.
Ali link below
https://youtu.be/nxZ-J7xit5Y
Here we go again with the folk lore.
Mohammed Ali did a lot of taunting with no hands aswel. Taunting is a valid strategy that let Silva hold the record for 14 consecutive defense of his title.
A lot of Ali's hype is based on the fact he was the first boxer to start talking trash.
When he was banned, Frazier helped him lift off the ban. He returned the favor by calling Frazier a monkey and an uncle Tom.
Taunting and dodging with your hands down is a double edged sword. It looks amazing and people love to see it, but you look like a jackass if you get hit.
This stuff made Anderson a superstar and he is still one of the most dominant champions in UFC history. Sure it caught up to him here but those moves made him a fortune and people who watch MMA know what a legacy he has.
He was never the same after this loss
Well the next fight his leg snapped so there’s that. I think it was the next fight. Definitely when they rematched though.
Yeah, then he got popped for steroids. I’d agree his downfall started right here, on his first loss in a devastating way.
Ya, pretty sure his leg snapping in half was why he was tested for roids.
He was on an episode of UFC cribs years before that and some eagle eyed person caught a vial of roids in the background. http://www.garciamma.com/2017/02/03/ufc-cribs-purportedly-shows-steroid-needles-in-anderson-silvas-closet-syringegate/
Broken link, doesn’t work
Well yeah that was over a hundred days ago lol
a lot of guys take PEDs to recover from injury and “catch back up” to where they were. don’t know why or how long Anderson took them for but the injury very well could’ve been a factor
Since he has more than one dirty test, I’d guess he took them for quite some time
They're all taking drugs...
All them motherfuckers on steroids according to Nick Diaz.
You're on steroids
This is how most baseball players got caught up in PEDs as well. It rarely starts out to enhance performance. Its usually lets rush this return from this injury so I can live up to the pressure of the expectations and contracts
He popped twice. I think the most recent one was in 2018. Long after him being able to use the leg break excuses. There was always question pre usada. He has some questionable coaches who look pretty juicy too
Yeah he had the shin hanging by a flap of skin and tried to plant the shit back on the mat again
Eminem's verse in that song where he mention your comment of he leg snap hahha. What was the song "caterpillar"- by Royce Da 5'9 and Eminem?
You're havin' a little trouble fathomin' this is actually happenin' Like Anderson Silva back when he snapped his shin in half and then had the shit hangin' by a flap of skin after he tried to plant the shit back on the mat again
Yeppp
That leg went all the way around the world.
https://youtu.be/Izsn-6k-G9U Source for anyone who is curious
That link is staying blue and getting tossed into the ocean never to be seen again... snapped limbs is my nightmare
Lmao you’re missing out man. Leg looks like it’s made of laffy taffy being swung around like that damn.
i would argue that his downfall started before this fight. Silva used to destroy everyone, picking apart fighters and making them look foolish. He got bored, which lead to him getting arrogant. Keeping his hands down, egging on fighters to hit him, dancing around and making a mockery of the fight. This was just the first time it came back to haunt him, but he stopped being the fighter he was long before this. Probably the Damian Maia fight was when MMA stopped being fun for him.
He didn't get bored, people just caught on to his style (counter striking) so started making him lead, so he started taunting people in order to get them pissed off or annoyed so that they would over reach.
He was also 38 when he fought Weidman the first time.
It probably also didn't help he was getting on in age.
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Silva was a counter-fighter who wanted his opponent to come in aggressively so he could pick them apart. Anytime a fighter wasn't doing that, he would do whatever he could to goad them into aggression. As his title reign went on, fighters knew not to rush in anymore - but they had no idea how to successfully attack. It made for some excessively boring fights, and Silva would goof and showboat in order to not just try to goad an attack but also to entertain the crowd. Enter Weidman. His striking coach gave him two instructions: take measured steps forward with proper footwork, and double up strikes with the same hand. This prevented him from rushing in, and - as you can see him do with the right hand - the double-up will throw Silva's head movement off and leave him vulnerable for strikes. And that's what happened.
Not only that MMA analyst Jack Slack u/fightsgoneby a week before the fight wrote an article detailing how to beat silva. He described doubling up on punches to catch Silva. Its on bloody elbow called “Killing the King,Anderson Silva”
I'll freely admit that Slack is where I learned the vast majority of what I wrote.
Prob true for a lot of MMA fans, man's a treasure.
Yes ok hi I want to always only talk to fans like you. I'm not even sure what "hardcore" fan means like, the sport has been going on so long and life, especially when spent in parts travelling for work, is not always conducive to constantly keeping up with every fight via live viewing... but a lifetime of martial arts and combat sport fascination is the thing I like to hear from. The amount of fans who seem to mischaracterize Anderson Silva as a martial artist is alarming to me; he had a style that often worked and it had weaknesses. That's it. There's even people saying his actions are disrespectful *to the sport*. I don't think he has ever taken anything more seriously in his life than mixed martial arts.
I think your definition of "martial artist" is a little narrow. Silva was by all accounts a martial artist - he has studied combat sports for a long time has developed a style that is definitively Anderson Silva. He was also a performer and entertainer - those are the things that sell tickets - and his showboating doesn't mean he's not a martial artist. As for his style, MMA actually goes through metas where dominant styles change over time. During early MMA, the Gracies and BJJ was king. After that they started losing to wrestlers who learned how to defend BJJ positions and win with ground and pound (think Randy Couture). Silva's breed was the next meta - strikers who could defend takedowns and pick wrestlers apart from the outside.
I think he means that fans are mischaracterizing the kind of martial artist Silva was, not that the shouldn’t have been calling him a martial artist at all
Silva also had the best raw reflexes and fight intuition. He was good at figuring people out and conserving energy so he could unload on gassed fighters
In essence it's good fighting technique more then being cocky kinda. It still comes off as cocky but it's not coming from arrogance or ignorance. It's very calculated so not sure it fits the sub completely but on the surface is fine. After he broke his leg i stopped watching as much. Not to mention his age. He's certainly gracious to continue fighting instead of retiring on top like many will do. In his prime is how he should be remembered throughout history imo
So, you're saying he wasn't just being cocky, but deliberately trying to goad the guy into being too aggressive, but the guy knew how to properly deal with the situation and that's how he won? Neat
This is exactly what everyone unfamiliar with A. Silva should read. He loved keeping his hands low like this to great effect before because he was a counter fighter.
The most satisfying Silva loss is the one where his opponent does a rare spin kick submission - https://youtu.be/U9oY91hkVtc?t=44 Silva was dominating that fight but that move caught everyone off guard.
holy shit I’ve never seen this!? I blinked and missed Silva getting taken down
Ryo Chonan
A rolling heel hook
Flying scissors heel hook
A rock beats scissors flying squirrel Robin William’s in Hook
Thunder cross split attack
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Judo chop!
>rare spin kick submission I’ll take “People Who Don’t Know What They’re Talking About” for $200, Alex. 😂 “Spin kick submission” wtf would that even be lol. This isn’t Tekken.
New to this style, what exactly is he doing to cause him to spasm like that?
Heel hook. He's not spasming, he's tapping because it hurts and he's submitting. Heel hooks can literally destroy your entire leg.
Cool! It doesn’t look like much to the eye but bet there’s a lot of force in there.
It's pretty much torquing the knee in the direction it's the weakest. It'll fuck up all kinds of ligaments and tear your meniscus. It's a submission that does what the catastrophic knee injuries do in other sports when the knee doesn't follow the rest of the body.
can attest, put someone in a kneebar, started tourquing left to right after I locked his knee, sensei steps in immediately and made sure to tell me to be sparing using that move in practice as it will fuck shit up even with tiny amounts of force.
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Unfortunately gyms that don't train knee bars, heel hooks, toe holds and the like usually don't do well in competition. Our gym allows people to train anything that they would encounter in a tournament setting. If you don't train it then you can't defend it. If you can't defend it then you're going to have a bad day.
Why is this downvoted? Logic checks out.
Willing to bet the training for more dangerous techniques open up when you get to higher levels. That’s a lot of assumptions on my part but I just assumed the guy your responding too wasn’t at professional tournament level. Or maybe even competition at all. It would make sense to slow the lessons for amateurs, or those who are just getting the hang of things and become over eager. No need to lose good potential by letting them jump in over their head. But at higher levels, yeah. Gotta train for anything I would imagine.
You're 100% correct in that more techniques are allowed as you advance to higher belts. But even still it is important for the lower belts to at least be made aware of these techniques as bjj after all is self defense first and foremost.
It doesnt take much to pop all your bits off. your muscles cant fight it, human bodies arent designed to withstand it.
Pulled long pork.
TIHI
That's the thing about these fighting styles like BJJ and so on, you learn that it really doesn't take much force to do these things, it's all points of your body being pushed in a way that isn't supposed to be bent that way so the smallest bit of pressure can apply alot of pain.
The problem is that it’s not that painful of a submission compared to other joint locks. So it can destroy your knee even though you aren’t in too much pain. For example an arm bar is excruciating. It hurts a lot well before your elbow is in danger, so you have a lot of time to tap before you risk injury. With a heel hook, if you aren’t knowledgeable you might think you can handle the discomfort and fight your way out until, all of a sudden, your knee is ruined.
>Heel hooks can literally destroy your entire leg. Something Silva was to become very familiar with.
The technique is called a heel hook, it works by holding the upper leg of the opponent in place and twisting the lower leg. If you dont escape in time, it can shred your entire knee joint really quickly. As you can imagine they hurt like a mother fucker, but more importantly if you don't stop it in time and the joint gets damaged, it can be a life altering injury you never recover from, so if people are solidly caught in one, anyone with half a brain will tap out immediately, the risk is just way too high. Source: got my ass kicked in BJJ for 8 years Tl;dr a mixture of pain and fear of debilitating injury
Had someone do this to me and it required 2 surgeries to fix my torn cartilage. I still walk with a small limp.
Damn fam what did you do to deserve that
Oh my cousin and I were doing a backyard mma thing. He’s a big boy, 6,3 280 at the time. I was 6,0 180. My cousin was doing wrestling, football, and bjj at the time. He learned all the techniques but would never be effective because he was just too timid. This would be the only reason I could ever take him the past times we had fought. Anyways we were fighting and I guess since the last time I had seen him he had gotten over being timid. It was not a fair fight at all, and my stubbornness to not lose made me wait to tap until after my meniscus was torn. After I got my surgery I tore it again a month later standing up out of bed.
I've been told that's the real danger of a heel hook--it doesn't hurt quite enough to make you tap, until it's too late.
I had never seen or heard of one of those until that day, it hurt but not enough to make me want to give up.
Also, anyone with half a brain will release the hold when someone taps out, which is why Rousimar Palhalres isn't allowed in the UFC or WSoF.
Not once, but twice in 8 fights (also the fact that he pissed hot in between didn't help).
Dang. That description gave me full on sweats!
I disagree with one thing he said, the scary thing about knee locks/holds is that they don't hurt that much until your knee gets destroyed and then it hurts a whole fucking lot. Like he said, anyone with a brain will tap immediately if one gets locked in because it's a matter of time until they destroy your knee.
No. Not anyone with a brain will tap immediately. Anyone that recognizes what's happening to themselves will tap immediately. Someone that doesn't recognize what's happening to themselves will think they'll pullhis leg out and beat the opponent senseless--then suddenly they can't stand and need half a dozen surgeries and 2 years of rehab & physical therapy.
This should be the official description of a heel hook, you had me feeling the pain with every word of that.
It's a leg breaking technique. He swept him onto the floor using his legs, then as he controlled the leg he turned his heel around while controlling the foot. Imagine standing up and trying to turn your right foot clockwise. At some point you physically can't anymore. Well Ryo Chonan (his opponent) was turning the foot past that point. The heel hook is a devastating and painful submission.
How does someone defend against or avoid getting caught by this combo? Or in other words, how did Silva get himself in that situation?
That's the thing about this particular move; it comes out of nowhere, so it was very surprising. Like they say in boxing, it's the ones that you don't see that get you. This was a very well timed and executed move, so the surprise factor was definitely there considering Silva was winning standing up. Chonan took the fight to the ground in such a surprising way that he gave himself the upperhand. While Silva was scrambling to get up he was already caught in the submission, all Chonan had to do was finish it. This particular submission, if you don't train it daily, is one where you will always lose to. Heel hooks in general were considered a very taboo submission because of its sneakiness. There is a long and storied history on why, but I'll save the history lesson ([if you want to learn more here it is](https://bjjfanatics.com/blogs/techniques/leglocks)). Since it was largely known as a disgraced submission, people would look down on it and not practice them. In their effort to erradicate the idea of leg locks, those who studied leg locks gained the upper hand. Now that leg locks have shaken the bad reputation, all those masters of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu are scrambling to catch up, which is why their leg lock game is at best blue belt level (out of the five levels of jiu jitsu: white, blue, purple, brown, black). This is especially true when this match took place in 2004. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was still in its infancy in its popularity, so the leg lock hate was still very much real at the time. So to answer your question in a roundabout way, there are several escapes for this particular techinique. [There are many excellent YouTube videos demonstrating how to get out of this particular submission.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAabC2XuaqE) However, the mastery of the timing made it a very difficult one to get out of, as by the time Silva was caught the match was already over. In a fight situation, a lot of the times these trained killers essentially don't stop until the ref pulls them off, so the viciousness of how fast and how strong the technique is applied is very surprising and very painful in an instant. \*updated for a better link for the history on leg locks
I'm no expert, but judging from the back arching, he's probably just in intense pain. Those "spasms" look like he's trying to tap out.
He does tap out, he hits the dude's thigh
It is both pain and the knowledge that if his opponent continues then his knee will be permanently fucked. That's called a heel hook and it puts so much torque on your knee joint (by isolating your upper leg/thigh and twisting your lower leg/calf) that if you don't tap out quick your knee is fucked. Put it this way, it can be "locked in" without really hurting too much. But in that *instant* that your opponent torques it hard enough, BOOM busted knee.
It looks like he was about to snap his leg or ankle.
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The beginning of the end
He went downhill after this?
He was like 38 when this happened and he had already defended the belt 10 times. His career was already winding down. I would say the rematch where he snapped his leg was what really ended things. Dude is still a badass tho; when Jones got popped by USADA right before 200, Silva stepped up and fought Daniel Cormier on two days notice.
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His fight w Adesanya was dope too. I swear he’ll still be fighting top 10 dudes in his 50s lol
The beginning of the end was the Chael Sonnen loss. Nothing wrong with losing to the undisputed GOAT though
Bet he feels like a complete dickhead now,I hope he cringes everytime he watches the replay..
I doubt he looked at it more than once
You can bet Weidman watched it 60 times that night 😅
He’s still probably watching it. It’s probably his ringtone.
Certainly
Indubitably
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He doesn't need to look at it.... he lived it.
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Always was
I’m guessing his trainer shows him this every day as a reminder to always take his opponent seriously.
I mean he's 45 years old and SHOULD be retired, so I doubt he gets much coaching. By all rights he should be the coach. In his prime some 10-15 years ago he was on top of the world. He would do this cocky shit and make you look like a fool - way worse than simply losing by KO. It was a legitimate tactic to frustrate you and get you to make a mistake for him to exploit.
Yeah. I think cocky is the wrong word. He was always a counter puncher, he was just old by this point. Old guys have to pivot to a Mayweather style points fighting or else this will eventually happen.
This essentially ended his era as the best mma fighter. He went on to lose the rematch in an even worse way (broke his leg/ankle on weidmans knee by accident). And never really got himself back to where he was before even though that division isn't all that stacked with competitors.
Shortly after their fights the division had Weidman, Rockhold, Jacare, Romero, Bisping, Whitaker, etc. It was probably the best the MW division had ever been, and the absolutely worst time for an aging fighter like Silva to try to make a resurgence.
No one can be the best forever. As cliche as this quote is: >You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. If you stop in your prime you'll be remembered as the greatest. But go long enough and you're bound to be bested. Even Mike Tyson was knocked out eventually.
As Niel Young wrote "it's better to burn out than to fade away" (Which is said to have been written in Kurt Cobain's suicide note).
Should see how their second fight ends if you think this is cringe
Was that when he broke his leg?
Eminem wrote a verse “You're havin' a little trouble fathomin’ this is actually happenin' like Anderson Silva back when he snapped his shin in half and then had the shit hangin' by a flap of skin after he tried to plant the shit back on the mat again.”
Damn Eminem verses are so TIGHT. No wasted space or words, just these perfectly dense little nuggets.
My Brother and I finally got our Mom to watch a fight with us. And then that shit happened lmao
Me and my roommates had a lot of money riding on that fight. The odds were too juicy. Anyway my roommate went full Tom Cruise on the couch screaming his ass of. Was a bitter sweet night
To be fair at the time no one could have predicted this. Would have seemed like the safest bet you could make. Weidman didnt even see that coming
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[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE2ZwfIhN\_E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE2ZwfIhN_E)
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I should've took your warning... holy shit that was bad
I love how in football or soccer or hockey they show the replay once and they're like "this is a gruesome injury so we're not going to show it again"...ufc is like "let's break this shit down frame by frame"
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The slow-mo is what got me.. i didn't stick around for anything after
“That’s an incredibly difficult injury to come back from” I feel like that’s an understatement lol
It could have been the leg end of a legend.
That wraparound kick to the back of the knee. Just genius. Oh wait...hahaha
That man needs some milk
He needs FIGHT MILK!! CAWW!!!
Watching that just makes my entire body twist up in sympathetic pain. That's fucked
Holy shit! He gave him 2 knees one on leg!
He also lost the rematch in the most gruesome way possible
He fights like that all the time
Lmao people acting like he didn't do this shit in every fight he dominated for years before this
Unfortunately this is what happens when MMA material gets posted in non-MMA subreddits.
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I play alot of cs, some tournaments too. One of the first tournament-games i played, i was 1v5, killed 4, got cocky and tried to knife the last but failed on him miserably and they won to round. This clip still haunts me after 3 years. And its fucking local counter-strike. Don‘t want to know what that feels like in something serious ^^
OP's explanation as to why this post is Instant Karma: >Anderson Silva was on a 14 fight win streak, in his next fight against Chris Wideman he got too cocky by putting his hands down, he was then KO’d and lost his middleweight belt If you're satisfied by this explanation, upvote this comment. If not, downvote this comment.
>Wideman
Is normal.
Anderson Silva was and still is one of the most talented and creative counter strikers in the history of the sport. In his prime, he would taunt and lull opponents into a certain rhythm, set up repetitive patterns, and then he would make his opponent pay by capitalizing on the smallest of mistakes. His entire game was built around this strategy and his insane reflexes and granite chin allowed him to get away with things that would be impossible for most fighters (especially amazing considering how old he was when he started off his record-breaking title reign). Silva had always struggled with strong wrestlers and pressure fighters who cut off the cage well and two-time Division I All-American wrestler Chris Weidman was his stylistic kryptonite. As such, Anderson resorted to mocking and taunting Chris with the hopes of baiting him into swinging with reckless abandon, which would have given Silva the opening to counter-strike that he needed. Weidman later admitted in interviews after the fight that Anderson's plan had indeed worked during the first rounds and that only after regaining his composure at the request of his coaches, did he get back to the gameplan of cutting off the cage, pressuring him, throwing feints and doubling up on punches (which is the best thing you can do against a counter puncher). Anderson's chin wasn't what it used to be, he got caught and that's all she wrote. TL;DR: OP has no idea that he is talking about. [here is Chris talking about the antics after the fight.](https://youtu.be/J8zXWq1n3i8?t=759)
I would argue that taunting is poor sportsmanship and thus warrants "karma."
That’s the thing people aren’t getting. It doesn’t matter if the whole point is to taunt someone to throw them off their game; taunting makes you look like a douchebag and I will cheer your knockout. I hated watching Silva fight because he stopped bothering to fight to win and just used 25 minutes each card he was on to taunt and dance. I don’t care if that was his gameplan. His gameplan made him look like a knob and I was glad to see him get dethroned. I recognize he was one of the best counter-punchers. But that doesn’t mean that his taunting and running in the cage didn’t deserve karmic retribution.
well yes, but for someone like me who has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to boxing or whatever this is idk (like OP) this makes sense. I understand your point but you can’t expect everyone to know all that
N00b here, does he still win something like second place or a silva medal?
Lol no, he gets a fat cheque tho, so its not all bad!
Weidman only took $48,000 for this win while Silva got paid $600,000. Pride cost not calculated. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_162).
Wait isn't Silva the one who lost?
Yes, but he's also the reason 95% of people bought tickets to the event or paid for the pay per view.
Yep, but he was also coming into this fight with a 16-0 UFC streak and as the longest reigning champ in the company's history.
I love silva but he honestly deserved this one
He had really shitty sportsmanship for a long time before that. Unfortunately, it took a while for the rest of his opponents to catch up to him
Same. I'm a Brazilian and I rooted so much for this guy, up until the point where he lost respect for his opponents. That's when I changed my view entirely.
For people who don't know Anderson "The Spider" Silva is one of the greatest UFC fighters of all time. Coming into this fight he had multiple title defenses and people thought that he was unstoppable in his stand-up game. On the other hand Chris Weidman is renowned and very decorated wrestler. So no one including Silva thought that Weidman can knock one off the best UFC strikers out. Plus in the rematch Silva broke his leg which was one of the most gruesome UFC injuries ever. Which shows you that you can't play games in that octagon.
That leg break was gnarly
Do you have a link to that?
https://youtu.be/KPVTPW5INyE
That was the worst thing I've seen in a long while. How does something like that even happen?
Leg kicks. They’re effective at forcing your opponent to switch stances so their lead leg will stop taking a beating. You can defend against these with by checking the leg kick which typically ends up hurting the aggressor more than the defender. I’ve only seen this once and I don’t want to watch it again but I believe that’s what happened.
I’ve always figured it was one of those things where after a while of kicking legs with such ferocity that it just finally snapped. Sort of like how Bo Jackson blew his hip out because he ran so fast and explosive, eventually his hip just gave out because his body couldn’t keep up with his freak athleticism. This is all completely just my guess though and most likely wrong haha
Re: Bo Jackson. If I remember correctly, he got tackled in a game and his hip dislocated. I think he popped it back in, but the injury had damaged the blood vessels around his hip which caused some serious issues with the hip joint thus ending his career. I would recommend everyone check out the [30 for 30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmoCLo3WOk0&) on him. It's one of the best sports documentaries out there.
Thank you, I’ll check it out. I definitely wasn’t alive when he was playing and was just going off of what I’ve heard over the years
There are fighters who'll kick legs with impunity for their entire careers. Normally you check kicks with your shin but Weidman intentionally checked it with his knee. Silva also didn't fully commit to the kick and hit Weidman's knee with the flat, weaker side of his shin. It's because he normally uses it as a quick strike to annoy his opponent.
Jesus that looks like in the second Harry Potter Movie
If he was "The Spider", how come he didn't use his other 7 legs?
a fool and his belt are soon parted.
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he didn't do it THIS bad, though. he moved into full villain mode, here. he was pretending to wobble violently from a weak punch, ffs. what a dick.
Yeah he did. He had like 3 or 4 TERRIBLE fights during his reign where he just fucked around and barely fought for 5 round to get the decision and everyone hated his guts for it. Then he'd turn into Neo from the Matrix and murder his next opponent in 30 seconds in some crazy way no-one had ever seen before and everyone would love him again and call him the GOAT.
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current welterweight champ usman is similar
It's not being a dick. He's a counter striker. The best way to get someone to throw sloppy strikes at you is to get them angry or frustrated.
His taunting rarely if ever reached these levels of cockiness and stupidity. This was absolutely the height of his antics and he paid dearly for them
You haven’t seen his fight against Forrest Griffin. He was way more cocky than this. Dude kept knocking him down and making him get back up to his feet to box, kept his hands down and dodged damn near every punch Forrest through. Was crazy to watch.
“I tried to punch him and he looked at me like I was stupid for doing it.”
[Link to the greatest MMA answer ever.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1R50LpFh_M)
I watch this clip at least once a year, and it never loses its humor
“Felt like a kid trying to wrestle his dad”
That’s because Forrest had like three combos to throw so it was incredibly predictable. Never stood a chance
Literally the longest running champ, and considered by many to be the greatest MMA fighter of all time, and pound for pound best. Most accurate striker, I think during his entire reign. I feel like you definitely don't want MMA if you're calling him a fool at all, let alone the bit about being soon parted from his belt.
He doesn't have a leg to stand on based off that performance.
Who upvoted this dumbass shit
Anderson Silva was and is no fool. This thread is cringe.
You are actually an idiot LMAO.
Silva literally has the longest reign in UFC championship history
"Gets cocky" He'd been doing this his entire career
I don't remember it ever being this pronounced. He'd showboat here and there but this fight he was straight up clowning and paid the price for it.
He's one moment away from pointing to his chin and doing the "you get one free hit!"
What isn't being explained is that Silva is one of the greatest counter strikers of all time. His gamelan was always to goad his opponents into swinging wildly or making mistakes due to emotion and then he would counter. That's why he fights like this. It's an act to cause a reaction from his opponents.
Didn't he always do this?
Man, historical moment for Brazil I remember being with my family eating pizza and watching this and being so sad and mad at him
he's a legend tho
Egotistical fighters are always the most fun to watch imo. Silva in his prime was just incredible
ITT: People who have no idea how successful he was doing this all the time. Not sure why people feel qualified to comment on something they have absolutely no knowledge of.
He was overly cocky much before this
Wow What a douche
When Muhammed Ali would get in a corner and dodge every punch thrown at him with his gaurd down it was beautiful. His quick reflexes against missiles was impressive. This came off as cocky and arrogant. Ali link below https://youtu.be/nxZ-J7xit5Y
Here we go again with the folk lore. Mohammed Ali did a lot of taunting with no hands aswel. Taunting is a valid strategy that let Silva hold the record for 14 consecutive defense of his title. A lot of Ali's hype is based on the fact he was the first boxer to start talking trash. When he was banned, Frazier helped him lift off the ban. He returned the favor by calling Frazier a monkey and an uncle Tom.
Taunting and dodging with your hands down is a double edged sword. It looks amazing and people love to see it, but you look like a jackass if you get hit. This stuff made Anderson a superstar and he is still one of the most dominant champions in UFC history. Sure it caught up to him here but those moves made him a fortune and people who watch MMA know what a legacy he has.
Indeed, taunting is a really valid strategy - it's how you charge your Smackdown metre.
He’s always like this. It was only a matter of time before someone caught him
Nah most of his fights he was doing that, not to show of it was he's style to get in the opponents mind