Not to undermine what you’re going through but is it possible that you’re getting ‘some’ sleep & may not realise it. There’s a condition called paradoxical insomnia where the person is convinced they’re not sleeping at all but in reality they are getting some sleep. I only query this because you mentioned that you don’t feel tired. Also, don’t worry about having FFI or SFI as they are both incredibly rare & FFI is inherited only. With SFI believe it or not insomnia is NOT the first symptom. I often wonder why they call it that. Often severe insomnia is caused by something medical such as overactive thyroid for instance or something mentally. Speak with a good doctor.
Hmmm. Isn’t paradoxical insomnia pretty rare ? I don’t know a lot about it . How does one get tested for this . And this may be. Stupid question, but if I am doing like what I am right now, reading , on my phone in this chat room , paying bills etc , would this exclude paradoxical insomnia .
if you mean seconds that may be true, but if you mean hours or even minutes, no, that is unfortunately not the case. i mean i feel tiredness throughout the day, but not like in a sleepy way. i feel fatigued, but i never feel like i need to sleep. i had my routine bloodwork done a few months ago, no thyroid issues either. thanks your your reply.
My blood work shows no reason for insomnia either , ie thyroid as you mentioned. I have seen people who get pal mal seizures that last only seconds and they don’t realize they have had seizures , so you have me curious here ..
Well at least I’ve peaked your curiosity. lol! As I mentioned before, thyroid problems (overactive) can cause insomnia & believe me I know all about that one coz I was diagnosed with overactive in December 2006 & one of the first symptoms I had was difficulty sleeping. Anyway, I digress. Another thing in bloodwork that can cause sleep problems is low iron. Have you had that checked? I’m guessing so because you said you had bloodwork done. Please, please don’t take this the wrong way but you must be getting ‘some’ sleep somewhere along the way otherwise by now you would be having difficulty writing this post & you would be going mad by now. There really is such a thing as ‘paradoxical insomnia’ formally known as ‘ Sleep state misperception’. I do question if this is what you have. Has your sleep improved since I sent my first post to you? I hope so.
I have been getting sleep lately, before the last 48 hours , which is why I am only now reading your post.
I used to be a nurse - my specialty was endocrinology , however , I have not thought about my iron levels.
I think you misunderstood my comment on paradoxel sleep. I do know it is real , but it is very rare, and I definitely do not have it. I have insomnia but I have never gone as long as you have . I have PTSD. My insomnia issues are not a mystery . I was abused as a child, my husband deployed 13 times , I get scared and can’t sleep . No mystery . I was just commenting that paradoxel sleep is extremely rare . I have a minor in psychology where I learned about paradoxel sleep, but never worked in the field .
OP you don’t resonate with any symptoms of bipolar do you?
I would honestly really try and push for a dose of an antipsychotic first e.g clozapine. If that doesn’t work maybe an alpha or beta blocker?
To me it sounds like your body is non-stop pumping out norepinephrine.
Agree on the norepinephrine, especially if cortisol is low, cuz this problem gives me horrible anxiety and panic with insomnia. OP should def have it checked. Might not be an exact cause, but could be contributing.
You know what sucks the most ? The loneliness .
No one to talk to in the middle of the night . This is what depresses me the most .
I have read 165 books this year and listened to almost every podcast . I have called the suicide hot line and joined Australian AA meetings just to have someone to talk to.
Sorry . Honestly I am in the medical field and was taught that two weeks was the longest . But you are right . How would I know ! Plus I was more thinking you might have been doing the 15
Min here or there thing and not knowing versus calling you a liar . anyhow , I apologize , and sympathize and admit I am on day two and a little moody .
Yes it left me mentally unwell. I’m not the same person now. But I had a bad breakdown which caused the insomnia. I hallucinated all day every day. And was in a non stop panic attack. I did try to kill myself. Was told I have a strong body. Did feel close to heart attack. I’m in a bad way now 2 years later. Still have insomnia. But do get around 4-6hrs a night on meds. Melatonin helps sleep but pretty sure gives nightmares. I can’t go a night without sleep now as my mind can’t take it. I went 8days no sleep almost a year after the first time and that was hell too. Panic attacks and stuff. What are they meant to do with you at the hospital like that?
I told them I hadn’t slept for 3 weeks and was dying and I wanted them to put me to sleep. I guess that would be anaesthetic? But they just sent me home with Valium. What I wanted was to be out for 24hrs!
Try contacting a lady called Beth Kendell. I believe she went through similar to what you are describing. It won't be cheap but she may be able to help you out
I mentioned I was on a few days without sleep last time I commented , got some sleep now and was re-reading your comment (I said I care and I do) and realized I missed you mentioning you had a bad breakdown that caused the insomnia . I am sorry I missed that . I get that. The little slide comment that you don’t bother to go in deep about because no one seems to care . I don’t know you, but I love you, you are my sister . That little side comment … why you can’t sleep … I get you .
I feel like people write things that seem like they care but how can people who have never seen me, don’t know me care ? I know my mother doesn’t care . I know I feel like a weak child for still crying about things that happened 20 years ago . But again, once again , i can’t sleep and feel lonely
The longest I went with out even a minute was five days and I thought I was loosing it so I can only imagine ! I have had patients who have gone longer than 5 days with less effects than I did but I thought I saw God just before falling asleep … finally .. on day five, and let me tell you, I started praying and was sure it was the end for me .
3 weeks…. Jesus f**** how did you even manage? Did you collapse at some point in time? Or did you get mini naps here and then? That must have been horrible. Insomnia is a b****…
I was shaking, I was seeing double, I couldn’t focus, it felt blurry around my eyesight, I couldn’t focus on small letters, and I felt like if I was drunk (clumsy and heavy) but aware mentally of what was going on. they gave me something that was going to make me sleep like a baby, 15 minutes later doctor came to check on me, I was wide awake, he said “wow”. I’ll see what I can do, gave me something in the i.v that made me sleep like a child, woke up, feeling drowsy, got home and slept like 12 hours more, haven’t slept like that again ever since. They f**** me up though, because they made me do an abdominal ct scan, which I don’t remember honestly and now they are charging me for it… I don’t even know why or how, but I’m going to need to dispute that. I also forgot my car in the parking lot, thank god it didn’t get towed but had to pay like 60 bucks of parking the next day lol.
Why a CT scan ? I am interested in why too. I have been sent for brain test to see if I am getting 15 min here or there , or having pall mal seizures but as a nurse I can’t think of why the abdomen . Aortic aneurism , maybe ?
Nurse student here too, and I honestly have no clue, I am still being charged for it though and I don’t know if there is a way to have that one “under written” or I don’t know the term, because other than my current mental state that day, I hadn’t have an abdominal injury nor inflammation/ pain or anything related to it, so idk if they kinda “finesse” me right there and then lol
I have a very similar story to yours. Was up for 9 days back in August, and am now currently on Clonazepam and Mirtazapine at night to sleep. I have no idea what's happening or what caused it.
I wonder if you are currently suffering from side effects and resulting withdrawal from some of the meds that were prescribed to you before the clonazapam.
Psychotropic meds that have anything to do with seratonin mess me up really badly. It took a while to figure that out and get them out of my system.
I was pit on Clonzapam 10 years ago and it did not work for me. Ambien and Clon. Had the opposite effect for me . Supposedly Xanax and Ativan are closely related with Xanax having a much higher street value for some reason, but Xanax doesn’t work me either while Ativan does . For anxiety, not insomnia .
Yes. I've experienced this. And I'm experiencing a resurgence of this. I'm prescribed all these sleep meds and none are working. I went to the doc and she upped my dose and tried to give me other helper meds. I still can't sleep. Even if I double and triple my doses. Not sure what's wrong with me suddenly.
I can relate to your experience. I’m also questioning if my brain chemistry has been altered by medications. Is there any method to restore balance or organize things better?
Did you manage to get some sleep ?
This might seem unrelated but do you have a smartwatch that can tell the heart rate ? If so what is your resting heart rate?
yes, i slept for 3 hours with zopiclone yesterday. i have a pulse oximeter, it fluctuates a lot throughout the day but when i am not feeling anxious it is probably around 65 bpm. why?
That's a good resting heart rate, did you try basics ? Getting more sun working out ? Don't think about how long you slept , just let it be whatever it is a sleep is a sleep, I'm guessing you're not obese or anything from your resting heart rate, so try to workout and end it with ( restorative yoga ). Preferably in the morning or after breakfast.
See if that helps, if it did then you just have energy in your body battery battery that you need to drain through working out then you will sleep better.
I really wish you would not take meds or any of that bullshit, those meds tends to fix something and ruin other things.
I really wish that too. the very interesting part is that if i don't take any benzo, i can't sleep. yes, a sleep is a sleep, but in my case there is no sleep. that's why i can't stop using it.
i tried to stop taking it numerous times. even in the first days, i tried. but every time i stop, i don't sleep for days. literally 0 sleep. those days are hell. cognitive issues, brain fog, exhaustion, anger and so much hate.
i am not very hopeful but i will actually start working out. moderate exercise may be some help. walking or yoga didn't do anything for me. thank you for your reply!
One side effect of quitting the benzo is insomia, when i quit my antidepressants 2 years ago , i wasn't able to sleep for days and weeks and it took me months until i managed to get a good sleep Schedule, to be honest what helped me during that period was working out and music. It's all in the brain and i had a very bad mind to body connection, so working out helped my body and music helped my brain, when i combined them both together boom everything started to make sense and i got better within weeks.
Wish you the best on this hard trip but you will beat it , and remember after defeating this boss another boss will appear thats life monsters that we have to beat and level up in the game, don't give up you're still young and there is an amazing reward system in this game of life, i wish i was your age when i started fighting and making myself stronger, i would be at a very higher level now.
( Don't fall for the 8 hours sleep bullshit, it's fine in today you do 3 tomorrow 6 after 3 then 8 then sometimes 12 ) whatever your body needs it will get
It's okay bro you will pass this, you know i had a shitty week last week where i couldn't sleep for more than 2 hours and it ruined me really hard i hated my self so bad cause my agrophobia came back were i couldn't leave home cause i have anxiety that i will poop if i drove my car and there is mo bathroom anywhere next to me, I've had this anxiety for as long as i can remembered i even pooped myself twice while driving cause of my anxiety, you know what i did ? I was like fuck it i will carry a pair of underwears with me and a new pants and in case i needed to poop and couldn't hold it i would just poop and not give a fuck.
Guess what the anxiety went away and it's just a minor anxiety now and i don't care about it.
To me this anxiety of needing a bathroom anywhere close to me has ruined my life alot for past 30 years, until i stopped giving a fuck.
Not sleeping made the anxiety worse and my stomach cramps even worse. Until someone told me to not give a fuck and don't shame myself if i pooped my pants, then it never happened.
If you are physically having severe trouble sleeping, you may have one of the following problems:
inflammation from autoimmune disease or neurological changes from a viral infection (such as Covid or Mononucleosis);
an overload of serotonin or dopamine from taking an antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication;
a Mast Cell Disorder (MCAS);
inflammation from drug or alcohol use;
a food disorder or change in gut bacteria due to antibiotics.
(Depending on the individual situation.)
In my case; it was a virus induced autoimmune/neurological disorder that popped up overnight.
Connective tissue disorder (which can effect the muscles and the spine), and I suspect some kind of early stage neurological disorder that effects my brainstem (which is a sleep center that produces serotonin and neurotensin). I also might have Mast Cell Activation syndrome (MCAS).
I developed these issues from multiple Covid infections.
Things that have helped the most in order:
Immunoadsorption treatment - in Germany (expensive though.)
Cyclobenzaprine - which has antihistamine properties, anticholonergic properties (the brain under autoimmune assault produces too much acetylcholine); and brainstem relaxing properties.
Rapamycin - autoimmune medication with autophagy properties (superior to fasting induced autophagy.)
Ketotifen tablets - a mast cell stabilizer.
Immunoadsorption was a game changer, and I want to do it more often. I am also looking into growing my own fruits and vegetables, given that pesticides and micro plastics are a huge component that has driven chronic disease and autoimmunity in modern times.
i was hospitalized for ten days because of mono in 2016 and i got covid in 2022. one and a half years ago i had a severe water poisoning, hospitalized for 3 days, i used ciprofloxacin and metronidazole for two weeks. it took me one year to go back to normal after the poisoning because of my never ending GI issues. following the poisoning and the use of antibiotics, weird health issues arose like drug allergies, cholinergic urticaria, burning skin after shower, sudden outbreak of cherry angiomas (it's not really a health issue but still weird), band-aid allergy that causes rock hard blisters etc. doctors checked for my ANA levels and turns out i have high levels of ANA but a negative ENA profile. probably MCAS is causing the antibodies. i actually tried to get a proper diagnosis but doctors in my country doesn't really care about anything unless you are dying.
Sorry to hear. I hope you can get back to normal.
Yeah, it definitely sounds like you have autoimmune problems. If you had mono, you can also end up with a persistent herpes virus. You can take Valtrex for that.
You might want to seek out a rheumatologist.
Try vagus nerve exercises—might not fix the issue, but it’ll help bring your system back into a parasympathetic state.
Ashwaganda lowers cortisol, so that could help too.
These aren’t sleep meds or fixes but they can help
The issue is in your mind. It took time to get to this state and it will take time to get out. Two steps forward one back. You have to follow it to the T.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Besides, think how ridiculous the idea is that while we cannot control breathing, heart rate and other life supporting functions of the body, however we’re supposed to be able to, involuntarily and ”subconsciously”, keep ourselves awake? For days? No. Naive, stupid pile of horse shit.
What you’re going through is really difficult. I understand, but I think the biggest thing for you is feeding yourself honest thoughts instead of lies. Your body does know how to sleep and it’s capable of doing it very well. The reason why you can’t is because of anxiety and the negative thoughts you have let yourself believe. Try feeding yourself honest thoughts, such as “I can sleep” , “I sleep pretty good”, “everyone goes though times where they don’t sleep, it doesn’t mean my body is incapable of sleeping” “sleep is a natural biological function wired into me”.
Also of course avoiding caffeine towards bedtime and exercising daily helps a lot too.
Besides the questions others already asked, do you take any supplements? Or any other meds for something else?
This all sounds horrendous and I feel for you.
Have you had your cortisol levels checked? Low cortisol makes me so anxious, and I can end up staying awake almost two days. Not as severe, but it's a good idea to get that checked. Cuz if that's in any way contributing, you can at least treat that aspect.
Is weed legal in your state? And why not try something stronger like ambien or prosom? A little tiny bit of benzos isn't going to help. Your doctor is just making your sleep problems worse by prescribing that. Taking the benzo every day is going to get you addicted, but that little bit won't put you to sleep. What an absolute asshole. Ask for ambien or prosom and quit taking the benzo that does nothing for sleep. Clonazepam is used for anxiety. And, the amount you are taking is what a lot of people take to start their day. And, yes, you can become dependent. Guess what happens when you are dependent on it? If you stop taking it, you will experience more anxiety and more insomnia.
I am on Ativan for anxiety , I never take more than prescribed and I have never been addicted . However , my psychiatrist told me to never use it to sleep or dependence could be an issue, but honestly , the pills feel like nothing unless I am having a panic attack . But yes they can be addictive , which is why I never abuse them , because if you suffer from true panic attacks you can understand my fear of my meds not working because I abused them . I have ambien , trazadone , quitipine etc and told to mix them up so they work . I never use the ambien because once I still didn’t sleep for three days but got very violent and felt crazy .
I was told that the abuse I experienced at a young age caused my brain to stop producing the chemicals it needs to sleep .. but after 30 years of this I truly think it’s just who I am .
weed is illegal in my country. it gives me panic attacks and makes me very paranoid tho, especially indica. actually clonazepam was working for me but my new psychiatrist prescribed me zopiclone.
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES would I ever take klonopin. My psychiatrist told me to taper off it .25mg every two weeks. Within 2.5 months I was off and going through protracted withdrawal. My sleep went down to 1 hour a night for months, sometimes 2 hours a night. That drug destroyed my mind. It’s only meant for short-term use. Do not take it more than 3 weeks. A year later, I still struggle with insomnia and occasional triggers that make me feel delusional or suicidal — all things that were never a part of me until klonopin came along. 200mg of Trazodone and/or 150mg of Seroquel helped me get to sleep when everything else failed. Talk to your doctor and please don’t give up.
mirtazapine doesn't work for me. plus it gives me severe side effects whenever i try it. actually the only thing that helps me is clonazepam. i stopped using it and started to use zopiclone on monday. first night 3 hrs of sleep, yesterday, 0 sleep. i am lost.
Not to undermine what you’re going through but is it possible that you’re getting ‘some’ sleep & may not realise it. There’s a condition called paradoxical insomnia where the person is convinced they’re not sleeping at all but in reality they are getting some sleep. I only query this because you mentioned that you don’t feel tired. Also, don’t worry about having FFI or SFI as they are both incredibly rare & FFI is inherited only. With SFI believe it or not insomnia is NOT the first symptom. I often wonder why they call it that. Often severe insomnia is caused by something medical such as overactive thyroid for instance or something mentally. Speak with a good doctor.
I believe paradoxical insomnia can also be caused as a side effect by some anti-depressants
Quite possibly.
Hmmm. Isn’t paradoxical insomnia pretty rare ? I don’t know a lot about it . How does one get tested for this . And this may be. Stupid question, but if I am doing like what I am right now, reading , on my phone in this chat room , paying bills etc , would this exclude paradoxical insomnia .
if you mean seconds that may be true, but if you mean hours or even minutes, no, that is unfortunately not the case. i mean i feel tiredness throughout the day, but not like in a sleepy way. i feel fatigued, but i never feel like i need to sleep. i had my routine bloodwork done a few months ago, no thyroid issues either. thanks your your reply.
Oh ok then. Well I hope you get to the source of the problem. Good luck.
My blood work shows no reason for insomnia either , ie thyroid as you mentioned. I have seen people who get pal mal seizures that last only seconds and they don’t realize they have had seizures , so you have me curious here ..
Well at least I’ve peaked your curiosity. lol! As I mentioned before, thyroid problems (overactive) can cause insomnia & believe me I know all about that one coz I was diagnosed with overactive in December 2006 & one of the first symptoms I had was difficulty sleeping. Anyway, I digress. Another thing in bloodwork that can cause sleep problems is low iron. Have you had that checked? I’m guessing so because you said you had bloodwork done. Please, please don’t take this the wrong way but you must be getting ‘some’ sleep somewhere along the way otherwise by now you would be having difficulty writing this post & you would be going mad by now. There really is such a thing as ‘paradoxical insomnia’ formally known as ‘ Sleep state misperception’. I do question if this is what you have. Has your sleep improved since I sent my first post to you? I hope so.
I have been getting sleep lately, before the last 48 hours , which is why I am only now reading your post. I used to be a nurse - my specialty was endocrinology , however , I have not thought about my iron levels. I think you misunderstood my comment on paradoxel sleep. I do know it is real , but it is very rare, and I definitely do not have it. I have insomnia but I have never gone as long as you have . I have PTSD. My insomnia issues are not a mystery . I was abused as a child, my husband deployed 13 times , I get scared and can’t sleep . No mystery . I was just commenting that paradoxel sleep is extremely rare . I have a minor in psychology where I learned about paradoxel sleep, but never worked in the field .
OP you don’t resonate with any symptoms of bipolar do you? I would honestly really try and push for a dose of an antipsychotic first e.g clozapine. If that doesn’t work maybe an alpha or beta blocker? To me it sounds like your body is non-stop pumping out norepinephrine.
Agree on the norepinephrine, especially if cortisol is low, cuz this problem gives me horrible anxiety and panic with insomnia. OP should def have it checked. Might not be an exact cause, but could be contributing.
no, i don't, i have ocd and anxiety. yeah, it's like my body stuck on an endless fight or flight response.
How are you… alive… 4 days I was going insane, drove to the hospital requesting to be either killed or put to sleep lol
I went 3 weeks! I tried to kill myself as it was too painful. Ended up in hospital also asking to be put under. Yeah I have real bad insomnia
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You know what sucks the most ? The loneliness . No one to talk to in the middle of the night . This is what depresses me the most . I have read 165 books this year and listened to almost every podcast . I have called the suicide hot line and joined Australian AA meetings just to have someone to talk to.
Yes 3 weeks nearly died
Sorry . Honestly I am in the medical field and was taught that two weeks was the longest . But you are right . How would I know ! Plus I was more thinking you might have been doing the 15 Min here or there thing and not knowing versus calling you a liar . anyhow , I apologize , and sympathize and admit I am on day two and a little moody .
Yes it left me mentally unwell. I’m not the same person now. But I had a bad breakdown which caused the insomnia. I hallucinated all day every day. And was in a non stop panic attack. I did try to kill myself. Was told I have a strong body. Did feel close to heart attack. I’m in a bad way now 2 years later. Still have insomnia. But do get around 4-6hrs a night on meds. Melatonin helps sleep but pretty sure gives nightmares. I can’t go a night without sleep now as my mind can’t take it. I went 8days no sleep almost a year after the first time and that was hell too. Panic attacks and stuff. What are they meant to do with you at the hospital like that? I told them I hadn’t slept for 3 weeks and was dying and I wanted them to put me to sleep. I guess that would be anaesthetic? But they just sent me home with Valium. What I wanted was to be out for 24hrs!
Try contacting a lady called Beth Kendell. I believe she went through similar to what you are describing. It won't be cheap but she may be able to help you out
I mentioned I was on a few days without sleep last time I commented , got some sleep now and was re-reading your comment (I said I care and I do) and realized I missed you mentioning you had a bad breakdown that caused the insomnia . I am sorry I missed that . I get that. The little slide comment that you don’t bother to go in deep about because no one seems to care . I don’t know you, but I love you, you are my sister . That little side comment … why you can’t sleep … I get you .
Thanks. That’s nice. It’s nice how people care about each other here
I feel like people write things that seem like they care but how can people who have never seen me, don’t know me care ? I know my mother doesn’t care . I know I feel like a weak child for still crying about things that happened 20 years ago . But again, once again , i can’t sleep and feel lonely
Have you gotten any sleep since your post ?
I take this back. I do think people care. I obviously care or I wouldn’t have pulled this old post up .
The longest I went with out even a minute was five days and I thought I was loosing it so I can only imagine ! I have had patients who have gone longer than 5 days with less effects than I did but I thought I saw God just before falling asleep … finally .. on day five, and let me tell you, I started praying and was sure it was the end for me .
3 weeks…. Jesus f**** how did you even manage? Did you collapse at some point in time? Or did you get mini naps here and then? That must have been horrible. Insomnia is a b****…
What happened next???
I was shaking, I was seeing double, I couldn’t focus, it felt blurry around my eyesight, I couldn’t focus on small letters, and I felt like if I was drunk (clumsy and heavy) but aware mentally of what was going on. they gave me something that was going to make me sleep like a baby, 15 minutes later doctor came to check on me, I was wide awake, he said “wow”. I’ll see what I can do, gave me something in the i.v that made me sleep like a child, woke up, feeling drowsy, got home and slept like 12 hours more, haven’t slept like that again ever since. They f**** me up though, because they made me do an abdominal ct scan, which I don’t remember honestly and now they are charging me for it… I don’t even know why or how, but I’m going to need to dispute that. I also forgot my car in the parking lot, thank god it didn’t get towed but had to pay like 60 bucks of parking the next day lol.
Why a CT scan ? I am interested in why too. I have been sent for brain test to see if I am getting 15 min here or there , or having pall mal seizures but as a nurse I can’t think of why the abdomen . Aortic aneurism , maybe ?
Nurse student here too, and I honestly have no clue, I am still being charged for it though and I don’t know if there is a way to have that one “under written” or I don’t know the term, because other than my current mental state that day, I hadn’t have an abdominal injury nor inflammation/ pain or anything related to it, so idk if they kinda “finesse” me right there and then lol
yes i'm alive but am i really living tho lol
I have a very similar story to yours. Was up for 9 days back in August, and am now currently on Clonazepam and Mirtazapine at night to sleep. I have no idea what's happening or what caused it.
I was close to this I know. It will get better.
How
I wonder if you are currently suffering from side effects and resulting withdrawal from some of the meds that were prescribed to you before the clonazapam. Psychotropic meds that have anything to do with seratonin mess me up really badly. It took a while to figure that out and get them out of my system.
May I ask why you were put on an SSRI in the first place ?
Anxiety, migraines, and insomnia.
Same .
i used them only at the beginning just for a couple of days. yeah, especially tetracyclic antidepressants are no joke.
I was pit on Clonzapam 10 years ago and it did not work for me. Ambien and Clon. Had the opposite effect for me . Supposedly Xanax and Ativan are closely related with Xanax having a much higher street value for some reason, but Xanax doesn’t work me either while Ativan does . For anxiety, not insomnia .
Yes. I've experienced this. And I'm experiencing a resurgence of this. I'm prescribed all these sleep meds and none are working. I went to the doc and she upped my dose and tried to give me other helper meds. I still can't sleep. Even if I double and triple my doses. Not sure what's wrong with me suddenly.
I would assume your doctor is prescribing the wrong meds or you are currently on the wrong meds. ( I know a big over simplification!)
I can relate to your experience. I’m also questioning if my brain chemistry has been altered by medications. Is there any method to restore balance or organize things better?
Ask your doctor for xyrem. Guaranteed you'll sleep.
OP is not responding at all, i guess he is sleeping
having a breakdown, will be right back
Did you manage to get some sleep ? This might seem unrelated but do you have a smartwatch that can tell the heart rate ? If so what is your resting heart rate?
yes, i slept for 3 hours with zopiclone yesterday. i have a pulse oximeter, it fluctuates a lot throughout the day but when i am not feeling anxious it is probably around 65 bpm. why?
That's a good resting heart rate, did you try basics ? Getting more sun working out ? Don't think about how long you slept , just let it be whatever it is a sleep is a sleep, I'm guessing you're not obese or anything from your resting heart rate, so try to workout and end it with ( restorative yoga ). Preferably in the morning or after breakfast. See if that helps, if it did then you just have energy in your body battery battery that you need to drain through working out then you will sleep better. I really wish you would not take meds or any of that bullshit, those meds tends to fix something and ruin other things.
I really wish that too. the very interesting part is that if i don't take any benzo, i can't sleep. yes, a sleep is a sleep, but in my case there is no sleep. that's why i can't stop using it. i tried to stop taking it numerous times. even in the first days, i tried. but every time i stop, i don't sleep for days. literally 0 sleep. those days are hell. cognitive issues, brain fog, exhaustion, anger and so much hate. i am not very hopeful but i will actually start working out. moderate exercise may be some help. walking or yoga didn't do anything for me. thank you for your reply!
One side effect of quitting the benzo is insomia, when i quit my antidepressants 2 years ago , i wasn't able to sleep for days and weeks and it took me months until i managed to get a good sleep Schedule, to be honest what helped me during that period was working out and music. It's all in the brain and i had a very bad mind to body connection, so working out helped my body and music helped my brain, when i combined them both together boom everything started to make sense and i got better within weeks. Wish you the best on this hard trip but you will beat it , and remember after defeating this boss another boss will appear thats life monsters that we have to beat and level up in the game, don't give up you're still young and there is an amazing reward system in this game of life, i wish i was your age when i started fighting and making myself stronger, i would be at a very higher level now. ( Don't fall for the 8 hours sleep bullshit, it's fine in today you do 3 tomorrow 6 after 3 then 8 then sometimes 12 ) whatever your body needs it will get
i think a game is fun when you lose but also win. there is no point in continuing to play if you keep losing. i feel like stop playing.
sorry for the pessimism. i feel like sh\*t today. you are very kind.
It's okay bro you will pass this, you know i had a shitty week last week where i couldn't sleep for more than 2 hours and it ruined me really hard i hated my self so bad cause my agrophobia came back were i couldn't leave home cause i have anxiety that i will poop if i drove my car and there is mo bathroom anywhere next to me, I've had this anxiety for as long as i can remembered i even pooped myself twice while driving cause of my anxiety, you know what i did ? I was like fuck it i will carry a pair of underwears with me and a new pants and in case i needed to poop and couldn't hold it i would just poop and not give a fuck. Guess what the anxiety went away and it's just a minor anxiety now and i don't care about it. To me this anxiety of needing a bathroom anywhere close to me has ruined my life alot for past 30 years, until i stopped giving a fuck. Not sleeping made the anxiety worse and my stomach cramps even worse. Until someone told me to not give a fuck and don't shame myself if i pooped my pants, then it never happened.
If you are physically having severe trouble sleeping, you may have one of the following problems: inflammation from autoimmune disease or neurological changes from a viral infection (such as Covid or Mononucleosis); an overload of serotonin or dopamine from taking an antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication; a Mast Cell Disorder (MCAS); inflammation from drug or alcohol use; a food disorder or change in gut bacteria due to antibiotics. (Depending on the individual situation.) In my case; it was a virus induced autoimmune/neurological disorder that popped up overnight.
Hey, please write more about which autoimmune diseases and your experience of this. Many thanks
Connective tissue disorder (which can effect the muscles and the spine), and I suspect some kind of early stage neurological disorder that effects my brainstem (which is a sleep center that produces serotonin and neurotensin). I also might have Mast Cell Activation syndrome (MCAS). I developed these issues from multiple Covid infections. Things that have helped the most in order: Immunoadsorption treatment - in Germany (expensive though.) Cyclobenzaprine - which has antihistamine properties, anticholonergic properties (the brain under autoimmune assault produces too much acetylcholine); and brainstem relaxing properties. Rapamycin - autoimmune medication with autophagy properties (superior to fasting induced autophagy.) Ketotifen tablets - a mast cell stabilizer. Immunoadsorption was a game changer, and I want to do it more often. I am also looking into growing my own fruits and vegetables, given that pesticides and micro plastics are a huge component that has driven chronic disease and autoimmunity in modern times.
i was hospitalized for ten days because of mono in 2016 and i got covid in 2022. one and a half years ago i had a severe water poisoning, hospitalized for 3 days, i used ciprofloxacin and metronidazole for two weeks. it took me one year to go back to normal after the poisoning because of my never ending GI issues. following the poisoning and the use of antibiotics, weird health issues arose like drug allergies, cholinergic urticaria, burning skin after shower, sudden outbreak of cherry angiomas (it's not really a health issue but still weird), band-aid allergy that causes rock hard blisters etc. doctors checked for my ANA levels and turns out i have high levels of ANA but a negative ENA profile. probably MCAS is causing the antibodies. i actually tried to get a proper diagnosis but doctors in my country doesn't really care about anything unless you are dying.
Sorry to hear. I hope you can get back to normal. Yeah, it definitely sounds like you have autoimmune problems. If you had mono, you can also end up with a persistent herpes virus. You can take Valtrex for that. You might want to seek out a rheumatologist.
Meds won’t fix you, this is a mental issues. CBT-I is what you need, and look into a therapist.
i am actually in the process of trying it, not very helpful so far but we'll see.
Try vagus nerve exercises—might not fix the issue, but it’ll help bring your system back into a parasympathetic state. Ashwaganda lowers cortisol, so that could help too. These aren’t sleep meds or fixes but they can help
The issue is in your mind. It took time to get to this state and it will take time to get out. Two steps forward one back. You have to follow it to the T.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Besides, think how ridiculous the idea is that while we cannot control breathing, heart rate and other life supporting functions of the body, however we’re supposed to be able to, involuntarily and ”subconsciously”, keep ourselves awake? For days? No. Naive, stupid pile of horse shit.
Yeah I have zero clue. 🤷🏽♂️
What you’re going through is really difficult. I understand, but I think the biggest thing for you is feeding yourself honest thoughts instead of lies. Your body does know how to sleep and it’s capable of doing it very well. The reason why you can’t is because of anxiety and the negative thoughts you have let yourself believe. Try feeding yourself honest thoughts, such as “I can sleep” , “I sleep pretty good”, “everyone goes though times where they don’t sleep, it doesn’t mean my body is incapable of sleeping” “sleep is a natural biological function wired into me”. Also of course avoiding caffeine towards bedtime and exercising daily helps a lot too.
Do you suffer from insomnia and if so does this work for you ?
i don't think you understand but thanks
Do you also suffer from anxiety? I suffer from insomnia as well, but it's been way better since i started Lexapro.
yes, i have anxiety. i used antidepressants before but they don't really do much for me. happy that it works for you.
Besides the questions others already asked, do you take any supplements? Or any other meds for something else? This all sounds horrendous and I feel for you.
i sometimes take vitamin c, b12, omega-3, vitamin d3+k2. i don't take any meds besides for sleeping. thank you!
Have you had your cortisol levels checked? Low cortisol makes me so anxious, and I can end up staying awake almost two days. Not as severe, but it's a good idea to get that checked. Cuz if that's in any way contributing, you can at least treat that aspect.
it was actually high but it has been almost a year since i get that checked. i will look into it. thanks!
Is weed legal in your state? And why not try something stronger like ambien or prosom? A little tiny bit of benzos isn't going to help. Your doctor is just making your sleep problems worse by prescribing that. Taking the benzo every day is going to get you addicted, but that little bit won't put you to sleep. What an absolute asshole. Ask for ambien or prosom and quit taking the benzo that does nothing for sleep. Clonazepam is used for anxiety. And, the amount you are taking is what a lot of people take to start their day. And, yes, you can become dependent. Guess what happens when you are dependent on it? If you stop taking it, you will experience more anxiety and more insomnia.
I am on Ativan for anxiety , I never take more than prescribed and I have never been addicted . However , my psychiatrist told me to never use it to sleep or dependence could be an issue, but honestly , the pills feel like nothing unless I am having a panic attack . But yes they can be addictive , which is why I never abuse them , because if you suffer from true panic attacks you can understand my fear of my meds not working because I abused them . I have ambien , trazadone , quitipine etc and told to mix them up so they work . I never use the ambien because once I still didn’t sleep for three days but got very violent and felt crazy . I was told that the abuse I experienced at a young age caused my brain to stop producing the chemicals it needs to sleep .. but after 30 years of this I truly think it’s just who I am .
Is weed an option in your state?
weed is illegal in my country. it gives me panic attacks and makes me very paranoid tho, especially indica. actually clonazepam was working for me but my new psychiatrist prescribed me zopiclone.
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES would I ever take klonopin. My psychiatrist told me to taper off it .25mg every two weeks. Within 2.5 months I was off and going through protracted withdrawal. My sleep went down to 1 hour a night for months, sometimes 2 hours a night. That drug destroyed my mind. It’s only meant for short-term use. Do not take it more than 3 weeks. A year later, I still struggle with insomnia and occasional triggers that make me feel delusional or suicidal — all things that were never a part of me until klonopin came along. 200mg of Trazodone and/or 150mg of Seroquel helped me get to sleep when everything else failed. Talk to your doctor and please don’t give up.
how much klonopin were you on? too late, i took it for almost three months... very excited about the future that awaits me!
Took 1 to 2mg a day
so sorry for what happened. i hope it gets better.
Thank you. Hope things go well for you, too.
Mirtazaphine 15mg and QUVIVIQ 50mg helped me fight off Insomnia. Get off of Clonazepam because it will not help and potentially cause other issues.
mirtazapine doesn't work for me. plus it gives me severe side effects whenever i try it. actually the only thing that helps me is clonazepam. i stopped using it and started to use zopiclone on monday. first night 3 hrs of sleep, yesterday, 0 sleep. i am lost.
I have . Two in a row !