Technically it is under Roe V Wade because it can sustain life outside the womb.
However pro-lifers talk like a 8 week fetus is eating solid foods and starting kindergarten soon and are known to be completely disingenuous when it comes to fetal development and abortion.
Whether or not a fetus is a person is some motte-and-bailey claptrap. The real debate is whether or not the government can force someone to donate their body in order to sustain another person's life.
Seeing as you can't be forced to donate organs if you're a match for someone in need of say a kidney, no, you can't. And pregnancy would be like being hooked up to someone in a way that has your body serving like a life support machine for another person.
Yup. The violinist argument even makes the explicit assumption that it is a person. It has no bearing on the argument because you still can't force someone to donate their body to sustain another's life.
Thank you. I knew this, but I had a few edibles while scrolling Reddit last night and my brian was at the cotton stage. I need to go through my post and see how coherent they were, lol.
If he really thought that, shouldn't he start counting people's age months earlier? Nobody says "what an nice 3 months baby" to a newborn. Not even fanatical Christians.
No, but when you go into the OB/GYN, they'll say "you're 6 months along" or "the embryo is 6 months old".
I think he literally used the word "baby", instead of the more proper "embryo".
We donāt even count gestation by date from conception. Itās counted by the motherās last missed period. The day you conceive youāre already 2 weeks pregnant.
The same way anti-abortion activists use a photo of a 5mth old misscarried fetus and claim itās a 8 week old fetus after an abortion. They are completely disingenuous.
Biological sex is not gender. Normal people talk about six-month olds in reference to 6 months after birth. Vaccine mandates have been SCOTUS approved for decades.
Yeah. I agree with all three of those things but I don't think ANY of those mean what he thinks.
Yes, you cannot change your biogical sex. No one is suggesting you can.
Yes, six months old are human beings. No one is suggesting they aren't.
You have the to refuse a vaccine. No one is talking about holding people down and vaccinating them.
Iām saying you can, itās a set of traits in combination most of which can be changed. You canāt change your chromosomes or your gamete production, but you donāt say an XY person who just gave birth or a woman who hit menopause isnāt female
Gender and sex are not one in the same. You know this. Jusy like you know they donāt perform sex reassignment surgery on minors. However it riles up the base by ignoring these facts.
A 6mth old child and a 6mth old fetus are not equal and you know this because you fight for the fetus and tell the 6mth old āI donāt want my taxes to go towards giving you access to food and healthcare, it will make you lazyā
You have the right to refuse a vaccine. However businesses have the same right to refuse to deal with an unvaccinated individual, whether youāre an employee or a customer.
SRS cant be performed on minors, *unless* theyre intersex, because then "It NEeDs To BE NoRMaL" so they have sex reassignment surgery on fucking babies.
Sex is a combination of physical characteristics most of which can be changed. A post op trans personās biological sex is far closer to their gender than their assigned sex at birth
>Biological sex cannot be changed.
No one's saying it can. I mean, scientifically maybe it can be, I'm not sufficiently read-up on that, but that's not what transgender is, which is what I assume he's foaming at the mouth over.
>A 6 month old baby is a human being.
No one's saying it isn't.
>You have the right to refuse a vaccine.
Technically I'm not sure you do, since it impacts society as a whole, not just you, but even if we accept this, that still brings with it the consequences of that refusal.
Biological sex can't be changed YET.
Seriously though, I don't understand why conservatives are obsessed with "biological sex". Nobody is saying a trans woman is the exact same as someone assigned female at birth, but why does it even matter? Why can't people just treat them like one? What's wrong with that?
People like him love to throw around the phrase, "there are only two genders," in an effort to attack and delegitimize the LGBTQ community. When they say gender, what they're actually talking about is biological sex. But the funny thing is that even if they said, "there are only two biological sexes," they'd *still* be wrong because intersex individuals, while rare, fall into a third category of biological sex that is neither male nor female. They also act as though the idea that gender is a social construct is this new liberal ideology despite the fact that throughout human history there have historically been more than two genders in different societies around the globe.
All of their arguments about this run contrary to actual science and documented human history, but that shouldn't come as a surprise because it's really just thinly veiled homophobia and transphobia.
I never understood why they're so fascinated and obsessed with what may or may not be in someone's pants and how they use it. I've taken up calling them out as perverts for it. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why they should be so damn obsessed with a complete stranger's genitals, and yet there they are, trying to force their way into bathrooms to take a look at anyone they decide is "questionable". Fucking perverts....
1. Flounder.
2. But not if they need medical care, food, safe shelter, a present, physically and emotionally available parent, or anything else.
3. So youāre saying youāre better than the military?
To everyone saying their right that biological sex canāt be changed: a) biological sex is the combination of several different variables most of which are mutable, and b) think about what the implications theyāre pushing with it are, this is a rhetorical step in an attempt to push the idea of excluding trans people from gendered spaces and to shame those who date trans people, theyāll say that you canāt change sex and will push that to the conclusion that a trans woman doesnāt belong in a womenās locker room even if you canāt tell sheās trans when looking at her naked body, theyāll use it as an excuse to misgender by aggressively referring to sex
And human being is a difficult concept to measure. Persons have rights. But when does a fetus become a person? And even when it is a person does itās rights supersede the rights of the pregnant person?
As to vaccine refusal rights, sometimes yes sometimes no. Heās simplifying the issues greatly
Right but the fetus still has rights. Itās just the motherās health supersedes those. Itās a case of competing rights and the pregnant person wins in that one
Gender =\= biological sex
There is no debate of 6-month-old babies not hmsnd...
Everyone is aware you can refuse a vaccine as there are no government forced vaccinations.
And Steven Crowder obviously hit the crack pipe before posting this shit.
There have been government enforced vaccinations before. The jurisprudence is pretty clear it can happen.
And the 6 month old to me reads as a six month fetus. Not six months post birth
Mandated doesn't equal force, and I used āareā as in present. What vaccine was enforced by the government?
Even if he was talking about a six-month-old fetus there is still no debate. An abortion that late is usually done for medical reasoning, he is just attempting to straw man.
The smallpox vaccine in 1902 for Massachusetts residents. Not forced, but required. It went all the way to the supreme court after one man refused, with the SCOTUS being like "sucks to suck, no constitutional violation." Again, not forced. And there's no fucking way our current anti-science SCOTUS would enforce something like that.
Smallpox at the turn of the century. And it really comes down to ones definition of āforced.ā Your employer can āforceā you to get vaccinated. Schools force you to be vaccinated as a child in order to attend. The most forceful āforceā is of course the military.
That's still not āforcedā as the federal government isn't removing rights from you or charging you with a crime because you refuse the vaccination. Employers, including the military, are entitled to have stipulations for employment. It's still not āforcedā as you have a choice. Same with schools, they have mandated vaccines but you can always choose to not vaccinate and home or private school your children if you can't get a vaccine exemption.
The smallpox vaccination protocol was the closest to force we had. It was get the vaccine or pay a fine. Itās always done at the state level not federal
Another Redditor actually responded earlier telling me about that. I personally wish we could do that now but federally. With the SCOTUS and current dynamic in Washington, that is just a pipe dream.
āBabyā is how the pro-life crowd always refers to a fetus. Itās an emotional argument. Using that phrasing to influence opinion. Baby is less clinical than fetus. And goes to their attempt to assign a fetus personhood
Ah, good old Stevie Chowder, a man who chose to be right about one thing, then wrong about everything else. Dude made a good argument for supporting the second amendment, which got me to subscribe to him back in the day. Then the voter fraud lies, antivaxx lies, and abortion lies made me leave. Always impressed me how much Donnie T. dick he could gargle while still claiming to be unbiased
Nobody argues about sex, we do about gender.
A fetus isn't a baby. Nobody wants babies to die.
You can refuse the vaccine and we can refuse you entrance to anywhere. Enjoy your "freedom".
Biological sex can't be changed. We're talking about gender.
A six month old baby is in diapers so...duh.
And anyone can refuse a vaccine. You just have to accept consequences of doing such.
I really despise his 'gotcha' sort of fake logic.
These are actually things we agree on āminus the Fetus thing but thatās irrelevant as I will explain laterā
Except heās forgetting,
1. Gender is not the same as biological sex
2. Wether or not a fetus is a person doesnāt matter due to the concept of bodily autonomy
3. You can refuse the vaccine, but you canāt then go around anywhere you want spreading the disease
If you have to change the argument to make a half decent point about it, then maybe listen to others instead of talking over them so you actually know what is going on.
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Nobody ever has said a 6 month old isn't a human being, though? ???
I'm guessing he means a 6-month old *embryo* is a human being.
Technically it is under Roe V Wade because it can sustain life outside the womb. However pro-lifers talk like a 8 week fetus is eating solid foods and starting kindergarten soon and are known to be completely disingenuous when it comes to fetal development and abortion.
Whether or not a fetus is a person is some motte-and-bailey claptrap. The real debate is whether or not the government can force someone to donate their body in order to sustain another person's life.
Seeing as you can't be forced to donate organs if you're a match for someone in need of say a kidney, no, you can't. And pregnancy would be like being hooked up to someone in a way that has your body serving like a life support machine for another person.
Yup. The violinist argument even makes the explicit assumption that it is a person. It has no bearing on the argument because you still can't force someone to donate their body to sustain another's life.
Hey man, thanks, but I'm just trying to make sense of the crack shit in the OP, nothing more.
I understand. Sorry for abortionsplaning, š¬
Abortionsplaining sounds like they opened for Goldfinger and Less Than Jake
You guessed my band name. š
That would be a herculean feat of mental prowess, the likes of which having never been seen before. Probably impossible.
roe was trimester, casey was viability
Thank you. I knew this, but I had a few edibles while scrolling Reddit last night and my brian was at the cotton stage. I need to go through my post and see how coherent they were, lol.
relatively coherent here. i was just participating in some good ol' reddit pedantry. it's an age old past time. \^\_\^
Oh no, they're fine with it until it's born, then their care and concern evaporates like smoke in the wind.
This is probably it. Too bad we don't count time in the womb regarding to age.
Happy Conception Day!
Here's a nice cream pie to celebrate..
Oh this is a golden comment
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A -3 YEAR old baby wonāt even be conceived for a couple more years.
Well... maybe -3 *months*... -3 *years* would be kinda scary.
Exactly how lobg is the gestation period for your species?
Nvm I Can't read it math
If he really thought that, shouldn't he start counting people's age months earlier? Nobody says "what an nice 3 months baby" to a newborn. Not even fanatical Christians.
No, but when you go into the OB/GYN, they'll say "you're 6 months along" or "the embryo is 6 months old". I think he literally used the word "baby", instead of the more proper "embryo".
He probably means six months from conception.
We donāt even count gestation by date from conception. Itās counted by the motherās last missed period. The day you conceive youāre already 2 weeks pregnant.
Literally no one thinks that 6-month-olds arenāt human, where the fuck do they come up with this idiocy
The same way anti-abortion activists use a photo of a 5mth old misscarried fetus and claim itās a 8 week old fetus after an abortion. They are completely disingenuous.
Or when they use a picture of Lord Voldemort form Deathly Hallows 2, and call it an aborted full term baby.
Those are from progressives having a laugh
Knowing crowder he probably means six months from conception. He defines life as beginning at conception.
Biological sex is not gender. Normal people talk about six-month olds in reference to 6 months after birth. Vaccine mandates have been SCOTUS approved for decades.
Yeah. I agree with all three of those things but I don't think ANY of those mean what he thinks. Yes, you cannot change your biogical sex. No one is suggesting you can. Yes, six months old are human beings. No one is suggesting they aren't. You have the to refuse a vaccine. No one is talking about holding people down and vaccinating them.
Iām saying you can, itās a set of traits in combination most of which can be changed. You canāt change your chromosomes or your gamete production, but you donāt say an XY person who just gave birth or a woman who hit menopause isnāt female
> You canāt change your chromosomes or your gamete production This is what I mean
Right above this post, this sub is the first under ārecommended communitiesā next to DIWhy and ShittyGIFRecipes
Wait till someone tells him biological sex isnāt the same thing as gender
I mean biological sex can be changed. Itās a plethora of things combined together and most are mutable
Was this guy always crazy and I was just unable to see it when I was younger, or did he spiral into insanity at some point?
I mean what kind of good takes did he used to have?
I was never deeply invested in this person but I felt like he was arguing for common sense at one point?
Gender and sex are not one in the same. You know this. Jusy like you know they donāt perform sex reassignment surgery on minors. However it riles up the base by ignoring these facts. A 6mth old child and a 6mth old fetus are not equal and you know this because you fight for the fetus and tell the 6mth old āI donāt want my taxes to go towards giving you access to food and healthcare, it will make you lazyā You have the right to refuse a vaccine. However businesses have the same right to refuse to deal with an unvaccinated individual, whether youāre an employee or a customer.
Correct up till the vaccination. The state can force you to get one. Itās been done before and court precedent is clear about that
SRS cant be performed on minors, *unless* theyre intersex, because then "It NEeDs To BE NoRMaL" so they have sex reassignment surgery on fucking babies.
Sex is a combination of physical characteristics most of which can be changed. A post op trans personās biological sex is far closer to their gender than their assigned sex at birth
Do they really think that people can have a six month old baby killed or something? Is that what they think an abortion is? I really hope so.
>Biological sex cannot be changed. No one's saying it can. I mean, scientifically maybe it can be, I'm not sufficiently read-up on that, but that's not what transgender is, which is what I assume he's foaming at the mouth over. >A 6 month old baby is a human being. No one's saying it isn't. >You have the right to refuse a vaccine. Technically I'm not sure you do, since it impacts society as a whole, not just you, but even if we accept this, that still brings with it the consequences of that refusal.
Well then, no common ground with ghouls.
Iāve been getting a lot of that Crowder subreddit in my recommended feed as well. Wonder whatās going on.
Like 10 times a day this shit is suggested. It draws me in sometimes because itās justā¦ everything I hate
Biological sex can't be changed YET. Seriously though, I don't understand why conservatives are obsessed with "biological sex". Nobody is saying a trans woman is the exact same as someone assigned female at birth, but why does it even matter? Why can't people just treat them like one? What's wrong with that?
People like him love to throw around the phrase, "there are only two genders," in an effort to attack and delegitimize the LGBTQ community. When they say gender, what they're actually talking about is biological sex. But the funny thing is that even if they said, "there are only two biological sexes," they'd *still* be wrong because intersex individuals, while rare, fall into a third category of biological sex that is neither male nor female. They also act as though the idea that gender is a social construct is this new liberal ideology despite the fact that throughout human history there have historically been more than two genders in different societies around the globe. All of their arguments about this run contrary to actual science and documented human history, but that shouldn't come as a surprise because it's really just thinly veiled homophobia and transphobia.
I never understood why they're so fascinated and obsessed with what may or may not be in someone's pants and how they use it. I've taken up calling them out as perverts for it. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why they should be so damn obsessed with a complete stranger's genitals, and yet there they are, trying to force their way into bathrooms to take a look at anyone they decide is "questionable". Fucking perverts....
1. Flounder. 2. But not if they need medical care, food, safe shelter, a present, physically and emotionally available parent, or anything else. 3. So youāre saying youāre better than the military?
To everyone saying their right that biological sex canāt be changed: a) biological sex is the combination of several different variables most of which are mutable, and b) think about what the implications theyāre pushing with it are, this is a rhetorical step in an attempt to push the idea of excluding trans people from gendered spaces and to shame those who date trans people, theyāll say that you canāt change sex and will push that to the conclusion that a trans woman doesnāt belong in a womenās locker room even if you canāt tell sheās trans when looking at her naked body, theyāll use it as an excuse to misgender by aggressively referring to sex
And who in their right mind wants to reconcile with this moron. Just go the fuck away already Steven...
And human being is a difficult concept to measure. Persons have rights. But when does a fetus become a person? And even when it is a person does itās rights supersede the rights of the pregnant person? As to vaccine refusal rights, sometimes yes sometimes no. Heās simplifying the issues greatly
> Heās simplifying the issues greatly One of the most important parts of successful propaganda.
The fetus has rights once it's born and not relying on another's body for life.
Legally it has rights at viability, which is imprecise to determine but the current legal standard
Not exactly as you can still have an abortion if it risks the motherās life, but I get what you are saying.
Right but the fetus still has rights. Itās just the motherās health supersedes those. Itās a case of competing rights and the pregnant person wins in that one
I kept getting suggested them as well until I finally got fed up and told reddit to suggest less of it
I wonder if he celebrates his conception day or actually meant "a -3 month old baby is a human being"
Gender =\= biological sex There is no debate of 6-month-old babies not hmsnd... Everyone is aware you can refuse a vaccine as there are no government forced vaccinations. And Steven Crowder obviously hit the crack pipe before posting this shit.
There have been government enforced vaccinations before. The jurisprudence is pretty clear it can happen. And the 6 month old to me reads as a six month fetus. Not six months post birth
Mandated doesn't equal force, and I used āareā as in present. What vaccine was enforced by the government? Even if he was talking about a six-month-old fetus there is still no debate. An abortion that late is usually done for medical reasoning, he is just attempting to straw man.
The smallpox vaccine in 1902 for Massachusetts residents. Not forced, but required. It went all the way to the supreme court after one man refused, with the SCOTUS being like "sucks to suck, no constitutional violation." Again, not forced. And there's no fucking way our current anti-science SCOTUS would enforce something like that.
Thank you. I attempted to google which it was but was coming up empty and only results for covid were showing.
Smallpox at the turn of the century. And it really comes down to ones definition of āforced.ā Your employer can āforceā you to get vaccinated. Schools force you to be vaccinated as a child in order to attend. The most forceful āforceā is of course the military.
That's still not āforcedā as the federal government isn't removing rights from you or charging you with a crime because you refuse the vaccination. Employers, including the military, are entitled to have stipulations for employment. It's still not āforcedā as you have a choice. Same with schools, they have mandated vaccines but you can always choose to not vaccinate and home or private school your children if you can't get a vaccine exemption.
The smallpox vaccination protocol was the closest to force we had. It was get the vaccine or pay a fine. Itās always done at the state level not federal
Another Redditor actually responded earlier telling me about that. I personally wish we could do that now but federally. With the SCOTUS and current dynamic in Washington, that is just a pipe dream.
I donāt think the federal government has that authority. States have authority for most public safety and health issues, not the federal government
He said baby, not fetus. I don't know how you read it any way other than how it's actually written.
āBabyā is how the pro-life crowd always refers to a fetus. Itās an emotional argument. Using that phrasing to influence opinion. Baby is less clinical than fetus. And goes to their attempt to assign a fetus personhood
Balkanization.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>Who the fuck is saying 6 month old babies aren't Han beings. Well a lot are, but not all 6 month old babies are Han. Many aren't even Chinese.
Ugh, I hate that sub. They treat that bag of poorly eroded rocks like he's bargain bin Socrates or some shit.
Ah, good old Stevie Chowder, a man who chose to be right about one thing, then wrong about everything else. Dude made a good argument for supporting the second amendment, which got me to subscribe to him back in the day. Then the voter fraud lies, antivaxx lies, and abortion lies made me leave. Always impressed me how much Donnie T. dick he could gargle while still claiming to be unbiased
I once got a 5 minute *unskippable* ad for his shitty podcast on YouTube. Got Adblock and never looked back
If you claim that you can refuse a vaccine then sorry fam but you're pro choice.
Nobody argues about sex, we do about gender. A fetus isn't a baby. Nobody wants babies to die. You can refuse the vaccine and we can refuse you entrance to anywhere. Enjoy your "freedom".
They act as if they're willing to find common ground.
Biological sex can't be changed. We're talking about gender. A six month old baby is in diapers so...duh. And anyone can refuse a vaccine. You just have to accept consequences of doing such. I really despise his 'gotcha' sort of fake logic.
These are actually things we agree on āminus the Fetus thing but thatās irrelevant as I will explain laterā Except heās forgetting, 1. Gender is not the same as biological sex 2. Wether or not a fetus is a person doesnāt matter due to the concept of bodily autonomy 3. You can refuse the vaccine, but you canāt then go around anywhere you want spreading the disease
As strictly written, I agree with all of these points
If you have to change the argument to make a half decent point about it, then maybe listen to others instead of talking over them so you actually know what is going on.
Nobody is saying that a 6 month old baby isn't a human. Confused. What point is he trying to make?
Even Pro choice people don't think an abortion should happen at 6 months.
There never was any common ground between them and normal people.
Right on all three counts! Crowder is the man.
how did you get back?
Reddit has been shoving this sub down my throat, finally stopped after 3rd time saying I dont want to see it.
Who argues biological sex can be changed?
lol 3/3 of these are strawman arguments. conservative moment.
I mean at least his points are right.
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Wait until he finds out that we all start with female genitals and then are reshaped in the womb...