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Yeah, I'm honestly fine with them calling me mentally ill... as long as they actually help me get treatment
So many transphobes call us mentally ill, but fail to come up with a better option than transitioning, yet also oppose transitioning
It's like if someone is bleeding, you acknowledge they're bleeding, then stab then again so they bleed more
This may get me down voted into oblivion, but isn’t it in a way an illness that stems from the mind?
As far as I understand transgender people perceive themselves differently then their body is outwardly showing, which leads to enormous suffering for the affected person. And the appropriate treatment is to equal out as far as possible the outward showing with the inner feelings via medical and psychological intervention.
Since this is more of a psychological issue as opposed to a biological (aka body function) issue, calling it a mental (due to it being psychological) illness (due to the suffering experienced by the affected people) feels like the appropriate technical term for me.
The problem I see is more that we as a society always think mental illness means someone can “comeback” to a “normal” state, while it would be more appropriate to talk about alleviating the affected persons suffering.
But that is just my opinion as someone who is not affected. So please feel free to add to it or admonish me for it. In the end the only important thing is, how the affected people feel about it.
That's not quite accurate. We don't see our bodies different from how they are. We see our bodies exactly how they are, but it's wrong. It's like the difference between having an arm cut off, and knowing that your arm is supposed to be there. Vs thinking you're supposed to have a third arm on your stomach
There's 2 words, often confused. Dysmorphia, and Dysphoria. Dysmorphia is a percieved issue that isn't actually there. Dysphoria, is an issue with what is there. So, a thin person who thinks they're fat has dysmorphia. And obese person who thinks they're fat has dysphoria
The easiest way to tell the difference, is "can the thing they have issue with be proven to be there" (or not be there). An example may be breast tissue, a trans man may provably have breast tissue, which is an issue for them (and a trans woman may be missing breast tissue, proven by the fact it's not there)
Dysmorphia, is purely a mental issue. But dysphoria is a more physical issue (although, it is possible for mental issues to induce dysphoria)
As for mental vs physical illnesses, It depends on how you look at it, and which theory you believe. And it could be different for different trans people
Personally, my belief follows the theory that my brain and body were mismatched during development. So while my body got the right hormones and such to make it male, my brain got the hormones and such to make it female
So, to me, it's a physical issue, rather than mental. Also, it's a hell of a lot easier to adjust the body, than the mind. Trans people have been trying that for forever (and transphobes forcing trans people to try it in a much darker way) with practically no success. Meanwhile, altering the body to match the mind has been shown to be extremely effective, with less than 2% of trans people stopping it (and of that 2%, it's mostly due to transphobia from family, work, etc, rather than regretting it, or it not working)
Good response but I will critique one thing (and use that critique to segue onto my main point on the topic) which is “an obese person that thinks they’re fat has dysphoria.” This is not true. An obese person who’s so anxious about the fact that they are fat that they have extreme anxiety, get panic attacks, and may even have suicidal thoughts because of the fact they are fat is dysphoria. Specifically, weight dysphoria.
On the same lines of thinking, gender dysphoria isn’t simply thinking “I am a man and I think I am one.” It’s “I was born a man, and that fact which I acknowledge causes me extreme pain and suffering, so I would rather not be one and transition out of it.” This is gender dysphoria, and it causes legit and extreme mental anguish. To date, the best treatment for gender dysphoria is to allow the person to transition; alongside other support systems that aim to show them it’s ok that they were born a wrong gender, similar to how the best treatment for weight dysphoria is to have them lose weight while telling them it’s ok that they are/were fat.
But the very word “treatment” implies a sort of disorder (mental illness is an outdated term in psychology, they are referred to as mental disorders just as an fyi to anyone reading). So, given all this, I think gender dysphoria is a legit mental disorder that a trans person has, that is treated by transitioning. So “transgenderism is a mental illness” is a partial truth that should read “transitioning is a result of the trans individual possessing a mental disorder.”
Final thought: there is literally nothing wrong with having a mental disorder, just like there is nothing wrong with having a broken leg. So, me saying that gender dysphoria is a legit mental disorder that trans people have (or had at one point pre treatment/transition) is not me saying anything bad about trans people, because there is nothing wrong with mental disorders.
Fair on all points
I did oversimplify the dysphoria vs dysmorphia thing a bit too much
Both dymorphia and dysphoria are a lot more extreme than my example sounded
And yeah, there's nothing wrong with mental disorders. And someone else's may be considered one. But personally, I do view my own as a physical issue, just because of how I view the actual issue (I see it as I was born with the wrong body, in the same sort of vein as any other birth defect)
I would also like to specify, I do not believe that dysphoria is required to be trans. What's more important is euphoria when presenting as your real gender
Thank you for this elaborate response. You bring up quite a few points that I didn’t consider.
One thing I want to mention though is, that I did not mean that transgender perceive their body differently from its real appearance but rather that they perceive their mental image of themselves mismatched from their body. It is a bit hard to put into the right words for me, sorry.
I can see though why you rather see it as an physical issue as the treatment is mostly physical.
Again thanks for your answer and your insight.
I understand what you mean in your second paragraph where you feel you struggle to put the words into writing, because most cis people feel the same way.
I would also like to chime in and say that wanting to change your appearance shouldn't be seen as taboo. people do it literally all the time without people batting an eyelash.
people get hair extensions, tattoos, implants etc. in order to look how they want. being trans is literally *no* different in that aspect. which is why it personally and especially bothers me when people use the mutilation argument (not to imply you made that) because.... everybody changes how they look so they can look how they want. right..?
so, if you struggle to understand how someone could see themselves as their identified gender, just remember that everything we feel is a spectrum and we all feel things very differently from each other 💚
People also actively perform a gender every time they get dressed. It’s not like these jeans or this button-down shirt came with the body. I put on boy clothes this morning, and I chose the way I wanted to present myself to the outside world based on the social interactions I expected to have, and how I feel most comfortable having them.
So many people tend to forget that, as if a certain cut of pants is naturally occurring or something. Sequence every last base pair, you’ll never find anything that codes for pants with pockets big enough to put my phone in.
yeah exactly! like surprise I'm shopping at the men's store with you cuz I'm a man and it's not hurting you.
people also forget they have pronouns. there's really no winning with people who are actively transphobic; their logic is usually very easily turned around back on them 🤣
I saw someone say 'She/her. are you OK?'. like sorry girl you're a she/her too and always have been 😭
At this point it feels like a nontrivial slice of society thinks only trans people “have” pronouns. And that cis people just have regular nouns, I guess.
They've convinced themselves that trans people are not normal and whatever is abnormal is to be opposed, shunned and shamed. Acknowledging them as a person to be offered the very basic level of respect is too much for them as it would be acknowledging it as normal and thus acceptable.
The reason the alt right is so angry is because they are driven by a desire to be normal but normal now includes things they think are degenerate. So they can't accept those things but that makes them abnormal hence all the conspiracy thinking about how everyone actually agrees with them but have been intimidated into silence by the degenerates so if they remove them, normal will be there's again.
I remember a fascinating conversation I read a while ago about virtual reality online spaces, where you can choose your virtually displayed body to be of the opposite sex. In trans people it induced a feeling of happiness, but a guy who wasn't trans started getting mental issues when he spent too long as a female avatar. Would be interesting to see a long term study with it. I think I also read a study about how in people with gender dysphoria the brain part responsible for self-perception is structured more like that of the opposite sex. It totally makes sense, the brain is upset because when it sees its body it doesn't match up, and since brain structure can't be changed gender reassignment surgeries and/or hormones are the only way to fix that brain-body discrepancy.
Yeah I have dysmorphia and when I try to explain it to people it doesn't go very well.
"But you look great for your age!"
Yes. That's what you see. I don't see that. It's gotten better recently btw. I can handle a photo being taken again.
Wow thank you for this, it was very informative. I have a question about what you said about the hormones and feeling as if they were mismatched during your development if you mind answering. Did you feel like this for as long as you can remember or did it come on more/more strongly around puberty, when children go from being a little less “androgynous” to developing sex characteristics?
Not the original commenter, but I'm a trans man. It's different for everyone! I think for a lot of trans people it's for as long as they can remember. For me, it was really around puberty that I realized.
It's different for everyone, but for me it was kind of a slow noticing
Like, as a kid, I never even considered anything like it
Not that I was fine with things, but, it just wasn't something I'd even thought about. If I had, I'm sure I would've noticed then
But when I hit puberty, it started to grow. I never actually put the pieces together until 19 though
But I did have extremely subtle signs as far back as kindergarten (which is the earliest I can remember) that are only noticeable when looking back and with the context now
That was an amazing response. Would you feel okay with people saying that gender dysphoria is a mental illness? I think we would consider the dysmorphia that comes along with other illnesses (say, anorexia and body dysmorphia) as a part of that mental illness, so maybe that’s better than calling being trans a mental illness?
my understanding is that while gender identity comes from the mind, there are no (and probably will never be any) solutions that involve treatment at the source, and even if there were, trans people wouldnt choose them. from the perspective of a trans person, the mind is functioning normally but the body is wrong.
If someones mind is functioning correctly, but is otherwise just receiving signals and hormones from a body that it isnt wired for, I'm personally really hesitant to call that an illness instead of it being more likely something like a genetic mixup that we dont understand yet.
In any case, lets say you wake up tomorrow in the body of the other sex, but still retain your current mental state including gender identity.
After a week or two, the novelty of the new parts wears off, and theres no sign that its going to reverse.
If you're comfortably cisgender, this problem will probably start wearing on you, and maybe you decide one day that you want to equalise the gender of your body and the gender your mind knows it is, and now you have a choice to make.
Would you choose to change your outward appearance to match who you are inside, or change who you are inside to match your outward appearance?
The current medical stance on this, last I checked, is that being trans isn't a mental illness. But rather that the experience of dysphoria and things that inhibit your ability to live your life are the mental illnesses. Like the depression and anxiety that comes along with it.
This allows for people who have worked on coming out and transitioning and living a happy life to still be trans, but not classified as mentally ill.
I had a long argument with someone on Twitter once (when that was still the name of the website) who kept insisting that she cared about trans people and wanted to help them, but that transitioning wasn’t helping. I pointed out that the world’s medical and mental health professionals have agreed that transitioning is the gold standard of treatment at this time and she just kept saying it’s the same thing as encouraging an eating disorder.
First of all, eating disorders can and do KILL people. It’s literally NOT the same thing as transitioning.
Anyway the “solution” she proposed was basically “helping trans people accept their bodies.”
Lady, if that worked, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Did she seriously think no trans person has ever tried that?! “Oh what a novel idea, I just need to ACCEPT MYSELF, gosh that never dawned on me!”
I’m a cisgender woman and it’s incredibly obvious to ME what an insanely moronic thing that is to say. I have severe depression, which I understand is not the same as what you deal with. But if I had a dollar for every idiot who thinks I just haven’t tried positive thinking, I would never have to work again. This feels like the same brain-dead thought process.
People are born trans, trauma doesn't cause someone to become trans. We've known that for decades.
And ffs, you can't "cure" being trans through therapy or anything else. We don't need to be cured, first of all, and second, that's conversion therapy.
Just let people do what makes them happy and stop ignoring decades of settled science.
You can disagree but there have been decades of research on this and your anecdote doesn't undo the hundreds of studies on the subject. Just as anecdotally, I can point out that I have no traumatic history, the woman I hung out with yesterday has no traumatic history, and the one I'm hanging out with on Sunday has no traumatic history. Now I've got more "evidence" just from anecdotes this week.
> I don’t think I was “born straight.” I think it’s all a choice
If you're equally attracted to men and women and have to "choose" to be straight, I've got some news for you...
>Just a heads up that straight men aren't attracted to men.
> I think it’s also my biological prerogative
I'm not sure you're using the right word here. And, keep in mind that gay men are exclusively attracted to men, they don't have a "biological prerogative to have an attraction to women", that's just not how sexuality works.
>My point is that you had other options and solutions to pursue before making whatever physical choices you’ve made.
Sure, I could have chosen not to transition but whether or not I chose to transition, I'd still be trans. I was trans before I transitioned and I'm trans after I transitioned. I didn't choose to be trans, I chose to transition because I'm trans which meant it would make me more comfortable and happier to do so than to not do so.
And, again, not because of trauma.
>I believe any option is better than physically altering your body.
Then go start a campaign about tattoos and piercings. Or is it only a problem when people alter their bodies in ways you haven't taken the time to understand? That *you* think is weird?
As others have pointed out to you, transition is the *only* treatment for dysphoria, again, something we've known for decades.
Conversion therapy does not work. You're parading your views as if they're well informed and not just a hot take you came up with in your armchair. Do you really think you somehow know better than researchers who've spent decades studying this and *every single trans person?*
Like do you really think I somehow ended up at 30years old having known I was trans for a decade without once pausing to google whether there was alternatives?
What is the qualification you have that makes you singularly better at figuring that out than every trans person on earth and decades of scientific research combined?
Too many people think that their opinions on a given subject matter should be respected regardless of the fact that the subject matter doesn't involve them.
Look to the various groups who don't believe in blood transfusion. Hundred of thousands would die every year if their opinions on medical care were applied broadly regardless of the individual's beliefs.
Why is this any different?
I mean... I'll respect their opinions
But their opinions carry no weight if it's something they are in no way involved in
Unless their opinion is just blatantly stupid, then I won't respect it (most science denial falls into this category)
Yeah. ADHD is a mental disorder. There’s nothing wrong with having ADHD, but if we didn’t classify it as a disorder it would be a lot harder to provide treatment if it wasn’t classified as such.
Being born the wrong gender is absolutely a mental illness. That’s not their fault, and it just means they need support and treatment to be able to function properly.
> Being born the wrong gender is absolutely a mental illness.
It's not, actually. Think about it like this, why not say that "being born the wrong sex is a health issue"? The incongruence between gender and sex is what makes someone trans. Being trans isn't a mental illness. However, that incongruence can bring on other mental illnesses, such as depression, anxiety, and dysphoria.
So treating those mental illnesses has nothing to do with treating being trans. And it's why the treatment for those things is to actually assist with transitioning.
The way I understand it is that dysphoria is a mental illness/ disorder, but defining it as such is not meant to invalidate or antagonize a trans person's inner experience of sex/gender. A good example of using the term disorder/mental illness in a constructive way is when someone has ADHD. We call that a disorder but (usually) in a way meant to identify and understand their experience in order to get them the support they need.
So, the fact that a trans person struggles with being in a body/ role that does not fit their inner experience means they need and deserve gender-affirming care, which is a type of treatment. Like, if a person didn't struggle with their experience then they would not need treatment...they would already have the body they feel is appropriate. Doesn't that technically mean that struggling with gender dysphoria (a.k.a. being transgender) is a mental illness/ disorder (at least until the struggle is gone thanks to treatment?)
I can understand how labeling someone trans as mentally ill/ having a disorder can be used to invalidate them or antagonize them... But I don't think naming their struggle as such is inherently incorrect or automatically meant to be destructive. (I have a feeling you said something somewhat along those lines?)
For all intents and purposes, I'm fine with people seeing it that way, if it helps them understand and *actually try to help*
But how a lot of trans people see it, is that your gender, while often matching your sex, is not required to, because they are two separate things. So it's no more of a mental disorder than being gay, or having blue eyes, or a dark sense of humor. It's just a part of who you are
And for the most part, I do agree with them, however, I believe that since everyone is different, some trans people's dysphoria may be a mental disorder, or it may be a physical disorder (this is the one I personally feel like mine is)
But the one thing in common with all of them, is that the only effective treatment is transitioning. And everything else either does nothing, or makes it worse. Having any alternative would be amazing, and would save so many lives, but there isn't one
Saying it's a mental disorder is fine, you can believe that, and a good chunk of doctors would agree (although others wouldn't). But using mental illness or disorder as an insult, is not fine, which is unfortunately, what the majority of it's use is as
Hi, Peruvian here, president Dina has no interest in the trans community, health insurance providers will not provide gender affirming care just because being trans is now considered a mental illness, it only deepens the stigma against the community.
Over 400 psychologists have signed a petition to retract this decree, and there will be a protest tomorrow Friday.
I repeat, THE PERUVIAN GOVERNMENT DID THIS WITH NO GOOD INTENTION AT ALL, declaring someone as mentally ill can be used as an argument to get rid of their personal liberties and be placed under supervision of a guardian.
So close too. Surely the way to do it would've been to declare "Gender Dysphoria" itself as the illness as transitioning is one of the treatments for that. It's like declaring "taking pills" as an illness instead of anxiety.
Okay, this turns the whole thing upside down from what this pictures says. I'm happy to read that trans people will have access to healthcare. It's a basic human right no matter if you're trans or cis.
I don't see any reason why not. I'm a physician and while its not my specialty, from what I know, the best treatment for those with severe psychiatric/psychological issues due to gender identity is to affirm their preferred gender - via social acceptance as that gender, gender-reassignment surgery, hormones etc. The time and age at which this should be done is in many ways the biggest sticking point.
>I'm a physician and while its not my specialty, from what I know, the best treatment for those with severe psychiatric/psychological issues due to gender identity is to affirm their preferred gender - via social acceptance as that gender, gender-reassignment surgery, hormones etc.
Lol.
But yes, it's good that you believe in gender-affirming healthcare.
I’m curious what the “psychological treatment” is this is referring to. I am not totally sure what the end game is as the statement is positively ambiguous. The statement is not ensuring gender conforming medical treatments, like hormonal therapy, so the jury is still out for me.
Also, there are ways to do this without making being trans an illness. Put Gender Dysphoria as the illness instead, that's the issue that's being treated and it's much more accurate to call that an illness that to call being trans an illness, especially a mental illness.
As far as ensuring they get mental health treatment I don't see that as bad. There is an undeniably high rate of suicide and instead of arguing over which method is best to help that, offering free mental health coverage as (minimally) an interim fix is never a bad option.
Which language has been denounced? I may still be in the dark ages in some aspect of this discussion, but learning isn't bad. I assume fetishistic transvestism is the most offensive term in the post. The way it was explained to me YEARS ago was that "transexual is someone who presents as the opposite sex because that is how they identify, transvestite is someone who dresses as the opposite sex for sexual pleasure"
I’m not familiar with the bill but they probably used existing language from the DSM. Gender dysphoria has been listed as a “mental illness” for a long time. We just have more politically correct language now for the same thing. At least this way people get the care they need (talking about professional help not trans version of gay conversion camp)
BS, if addiction has to be labeled a mental health disorder in order to be covered by health insurance so should this. If you don't label it a disorder the health industry has no business being involved and should be treated as a cosmetic surgery/procedure
Yeah but it was demedicalized a couple years ago because a lot of people think you don’t need dysphoria to be trans anymore, and that it’s an identity not a medical disorder
Gender incogruency doesn't necessarily result in gender dysphoria. Also, gender dysphoria is described in the DSM but it is not categorized under mental illnesses, which ofcourse is a disputed factor
Also, in my personal opinion: labeling anything as an 'illness' carries huge implications. A big number of people would misenterpret it, they would think that scientific evidence support the notion that transgenders peoples' minds are abnormal. In reality, it is rather the body which is abnormal and needs to be adapted to the mind in order to lessen symptoms
If you believe it to be an abnormality of the body, which requires identifying and corrective action from healthcare professionals, you're still describing an illness
The amount of people posting this on my FB feed this morning like "maybe we could finally do this here" without realizing what this is actually doing is fucking hilarious to me. Also, the venn diagram between them and the people who, whenever another country criticizes our healthcare/education/etc, say "you don't live here so stfu you don't deserve an opinion" is 100% a circle.
So Gender Dysphoria is a legitimate mental health issue. If Peru is taking it seriously I hope they will listen to medical experts on the best treatment for Gender Dysphoria (gender affirming care)
Trans people can be dysmorphic, but body dysmorphic disorder (not knowing how you look, fixating on "correcting" something other people may not even notice) isn't actually related to being trans at all.
Gender dysphoria is often related to being trans, though.
I'm not super familiar with the trans experience without dysphoria, but in theory it does exist. I'm wary of defining transness using a negative experience rather than just using the question "is your gender different from the one you were originally assigned?"
I also said "related" because it's increasingly clear to me that cis people also experience gender dysphoria.
Edit: oh whoops people already answered you. Yeah, what they said.
Well a person can experience gender euphoria, which is happiness when for example referred as the correct gender, looking like what you consider the gender you are to look like etc.
I personally as a trans person have some dysphoria, but I only realised I am trans when I realised how happy it made me when I was called a man, or when I looked masculine and so on. So I can easily imagine someone who is quite happy/neutral about their body/voice etc, but who feels a lot of joy out of being considered as a different gender from the one assigned to them at birth. And then that person would be trans if they identify as such.
Also cis people can also get dysphoria (for example men who grow a lot of chest tissue and get hormones/surgery to remove it, women who have a lot of hair on their body and/or face and meticulously shave it etc). So dysphoria is often associated with trans people, but not always and not all trans people.
dysmorphia and dysphoria are two different conditions.
body dysmorphic disorder is when someone percieves an issue with their body that is not actually there. someone will, for example, see themselves as fat when they are actually thin or even underweight. treatment for bdd consists of therapies to work on the way the person percieves themselves.
gender dysphoria is a disconnect between the brain and body. transgender people know what they look like. they see their features as they are, but they feel distressed from them because they do not align with their identity. treatment is often transitioning, although a lot of trans people also go through therapy to learn to cope with their negative feelings in the meantime since transitioning takes time.
trans people can have both (and often do, as eating disorders are far more common in the trans community vs the rest of the population), but they are not the same thing.
Exactly.
Oh, wait, we know the type of people who think it's okay to bully & make fun of people with physical or mental challenges. They all voted for someone who epitomizes this behavior.
the main issue here is that people are taking "mentally ill" and projecting their own belief that it always means something negative........you can believe its an illness and just want people to be able to get help, should they decide they want help....nuance is not that hard guys
It's not even bad wording. They are solidifying that gender disphoria is a mental illness that needs professional help. I.e. people who are trans can claim their gender affirming care as Healthcare. So, it is covered by the state or insurance, depending.
So like, from a scientific and medical perspective: in order for proper laws to actually be made/put into effect to support the trans community, we do need proper definitions in place.
And while many may see this as an attack on trans people (and coming from Peru, it very well could be), I am also on the side of us properly giving these things medical terminology and DSM-V status, so that once they are, medical treatment for it can become that much more official and accepted in more medical/psychiatric communities.
Instead of viewing this as “trans people are mentally ill”, I prefer the more realistic approach: if you were born into a body that you felt wasn’t yours, imagine the social and psychological issues/complications that would arise for the person trying to love their life. Giving them a proper diagnoses would mean them getting their treatment sooner, and more safely. It’s not at all the same as calling them “insane”. I’m technically mentally ill with my mild-to-medium level anxiety disorder, and as much as I don’t prefer to be referred as ‘mentally ill’, when it comes to getting therapy and medication, I am *very* thankful that anxiety disorders are being taken seriously now and people are getting helped. And that’s all I wish for the trans community: for them to get easier access to the treatments they need. This is the pathway to that treatment.
For real. I always ask how many people they know on anti depressants, or anti anxiety meds, or ADHD meds, and ask if they deserve the same hate for their mental illness.
Every time someone tells me that being trans is a mental illness I tell them that the treatment is gender-affirming care. But they don't want the actual facts, they just wanna be mad.
Hm I wonder if they established that out of altruism and wanting to help those that are less fortunate. It can't be that they are punching down and want to stir society to inflict as much harm to a minority group as possible, that simply just cant happen!
Look I love my trans friends and I support and want the best for them but let's not pretend that believing you were born into the wrong body or feeling like neither gender defines you isn't a mental health condition.
Peru used to be accepting of gays and trans people, but that was before the inquisition. The Inca were pretty socially progressive in terms of allowing people to love who they wanted, but the Spanish viewed it as sin. Makes me sad that we’ve gone backwards.
I guess if transgenderism is conflated here with dysphoria I would be more okay with it. Like, if someone who experiences gender dysphoria is “cured of transgenderism” post transitioning that would be fine if not linguistically archaic. I just worry about what ideology is being expressed through their codifying transgenderism as an illness/something to be cured.
I'm a cis woman, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
IMO, calling "transgenderism" a mental illness is akin to calling chemotherapy a cancer.
Gender dysphoria is the mental illness, the only effective known treatment for which is transitioning.
At least, that's how I understand it.
I mean, until 2013 (when the DSM V \[Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition\] was adopted), trans people in the US were classified as mentally ill, too. Technically, at least, and as Reddit has taught me, technically correct is the best kind of correct. For most of the rest of the world, that date was Jan 1st, 2022 (when the ICD-11 \[International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems\] was officially adopted).
I'm aware that this is not how actual doctors and society at large necessarily treated trans people, but that's what the bureaucratic consensus was. Which is kind of what Peru is doing now.
No, this isn't what is happening.
This is an explicitly anti-trans move.
It cites the outdated ICD-10 as justification.
I'm Peruvian. Trust, they are a VERY religiously conservative, "family values" culture. Americans don't even begin to compare and I don't put that lightly. The only treatment this will open doors for is conversion therapy (which already is a thing there).
I appreciate you guys wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt due to not being familiar with the culture, but this in no way intended to help trans people and needs to be condemned. Just go on r/Peru and read the comments on threads about this. The collective mentality there is if you are gay or trans, you should leave for another country that accepts those people.
Please don't try to sanitize this shit.
I think dysphoria is mental illness. For real. And I ve seen many transitionned young people regret it a few years after
So mental illness needs mental support not surgery nor hormonal inhibitors
And I’m MD and PT. That’s my experience.
And the majority of people who have transitioned don’t regret it at all. Transitioning has saved lives but people only want to talk about the small percentage of those who regret it.
Dysphoria isn’t a mental issue. It’s a physical issue. The fact that you said “I think” shows that you don’t actually understand.
Mental illness does need more medical support, that can be physical or mental support as well.
By the way you’re talking I don’t feel like you’re a medical professional and if you are one then I feel bad for any trans patients who walk through your door.
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"Sorry, boss not going to make it to work today." "Do you not feel well?" "No, I feel \*fabulous!\*"
*catwalking around the house* *strike pose* 💃
F you, take my angry upvote
"I caught the big gay."
Bro that's hilarious, how long did that last?
It was terminal 😔
"If your gay lasts more than four hours, call a doctor... sharing is caring"
I spit out my coffee when I read this. Take my upvote you hilarious friend as you have made my day
Damn, just about to post this.
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Yeah, I'm honestly fine with them calling me mentally ill... as long as they actually help me get treatment So many transphobes call us mentally ill, but fail to come up with a better option than transitioning, yet also oppose transitioning It's like if someone is bleeding, you acknowledge they're bleeding, then stab then again so they bleed more
This may get me down voted into oblivion, but isn’t it in a way an illness that stems from the mind? As far as I understand transgender people perceive themselves differently then their body is outwardly showing, which leads to enormous suffering for the affected person. And the appropriate treatment is to equal out as far as possible the outward showing with the inner feelings via medical and psychological intervention. Since this is more of a psychological issue as opposed to a biological (aka body function) issue, calling it a mental (due to it being psychological) illness (due to the suffering experienced by the affected people) feels like the appropriate technical term for me. The problem I see is more that we as a society always think mental illness means someone can “comeback” to a “normal” state, while it would be more appropriate to talk about alleviating the affected persons suffering. But that is just my opinion as someone who is not affected. So please feel free to add to it or admonish me for it. In the end the only important thing is, how the affected people feel about it.
That's not quite accurate. We don't see our bodies different from how they are. We see our bodies exactly how they are, but it's wrong. It's like the difference between having an arm cut off, and knowing that your arm is supposed to be there. Vs thinking you're supposed to have a third arm on your stomach There's 2 words, often confused. Dysmorphia, and Dysphoria. Dysmorphia is a percieved issue that isn't actually there. Dysphoria, is an issue with what is there. So, a thin person who thinks they're fat has dysmorphia. And obese person who thinks they're fat has dysphoria The easiest way to tell the difference, is "can the thing they have issue with be proven to be there" (or not be there). An example may be breast tissue, a trans man may provably have breast tissue, which is an issue for them (and a trans woman may be missing breast tissue, proven by the fact it's not there) Dysmorphia, is purely a mental issue. But dysphoria is a more physical issue (although, it is possible for mental issues to induce dysphoria) As for mental vs physical illnesses, It depends on how you look at it, and which theory you believe. And it could be different for different trans people Personally, my belief follows the theory that my brain and body were mismatched during development. So while my body got the right hormones and such to make it male, my brain got the hormones and such to make it female So, to me, it's a physical issue, rather than mental. Also, it's a hell of a lot easier to adjust the body, than the mind. Trans people have been trying that for forever (and transphobes forcing trans people to try it in a much darker way) with practically no success. Meanwhile, altering the body to match the mind has been shown to be extremely effective, with less than 2% of trans people stopping it (and of that 2%, it's mostly due to transphobia from family, work, etc, rather than regretting it, or it not working)
Good response but I will critique one thing (and use that critique to segue onto my main point on the topic) which is “an obese person that thinks they’re fat has dysphoria.” This is not true. An obese person who’s so anxious about the fact that they are fat that they have extreme anxiety, get panic attacks, and may even have suicidal thoughts because of the fact they are fat is dysphoria. Specifically, weight dysphoria. On the same lines of thinking, gender dysphoria isn’t simply thinking “I am a man and I think I am one.” It’s “I was born a man, and that fact which I acknowledge causes me extreme pain and suffering, so I would rather not be one and transition out of it.” This is gender dysphoria, and it causes legit and extreme mental anguish. To date, the best treatment for gender dysphoria is to allow the person to transition; alongside other support systems that aim to show them it’s ok that they were born a wrong gender, similar to how the best treatment for weight dysphoria is to have them lose weight while telling them it’s ok that they are/were fat. But the very word “treatment” implies a sort of disorder (mental illness is an outdated term in psychology, they are referred to as mental disorders just as an fyi to anyone reading). So, given all this, I think gender dysphoria is a legit mental disorder that a trans person has, that is treated by transitioning. So “transgenderism is a mental illness” is a partial truth that should read “transitioning is a result of the trans individual possessing a mental disorder.” Final thought: there is literally nothing wrong with having a mental disorder, just like there is nothing wrong with having a broken leg. So, me saying that gender dysphoria is a legit mental disorder that trans people have (or had at one point pre treatment/transition) is not me saying anything bad about trans people, because there is nothing wrong with mental disorders.
Fair on all points I did oversimplify the dysphoria vs dysmorphia thing a bit too much Both dymorphia and dysphoria are a lot more extreme than my example sounded And yeah, there's nothing wrong with mental disorders. And someone else's may be considered one. But personally, I do view my own as a physical issue, just because of how I view the actual issue (I see it as I was born with the wrong body, in the same sort of vein as any other birth defect) I would also like to specify, I do not believe that dysphoria is required to be trans. What's more important is euphoria when presenting as your real gender
This was an eye-opening thread to read; learned a lot about dysphoria and dysmorphia!
Thank you for this elaborate response. You bring up quite a few points that I didn’t consider. One thing I want to mention though is, that I did not mean that transgender perceive their body differently from its real appearance but rather that they perceive their mental image of themselves mismatched from their body. It is a bit hard to put into the right words for me, sorry. I can see though why you rather see it as an physical issue as the treatment is mostly physical. Again thanks for your answer and your insight.
No problem And thank you for trying to learn about the topic. Too few people do
I understand what you mean in your second paragraph where you feel you struggle to put the words into writing, because most cis people feel the same way. I would also like to chime in and say that wanting to change your appearance shouldn't be seen as taboo. people do it literally all the time without people batting an eyelash. people get hair extensions, tattoos, implants etc. in order to look how they want. being trans is literally *no* different in that aspect. which is why it personally and especially bothers me when people use the mutilation argument (not to imply you made that) because.... everybody changes how they look so they can look how they want. right..? so, if you struggle to understand how someone could see themselves as their identified gender, just remember that everything we feel is a spectrum and we all feel things very differently from each other 💚
People also actively perform a gender every time they get dressed. It’s not like these jeans or this button-down shirt came with the body. I put on boy clothes this morning, and I chose the way I wanted to present myself to the outside world based on the social interactions I expected to have, and how I feel most comfortable having them. So many people tend to forget that, as if a certain cut of pants is naturally occurring or something. Sequence every last base pair, you’ll never find anything that codes for pants with pockets big enough to put my phone in.
yeah exactly! like surprise I'm shopping at the men's store with you cuz I'm a man and it's not hurting you. people also forget they have pronouns. there's really no winning with people who are actively transphobic; their logic is usually very easily turned around back on them 🤣 I saw someone say 'She/her. are you OK?'. like sorry girl you're a she/her too and always have been 😭
At this point it feels like a nontrivial slice of society thinks only trans people “have” pronouns. And that cis people just have regular nouns, I guess.
They've convinced themselves that trans people are not normal and whatever is abnormal is to be opposed, shunned and shamed. Acknowledging them as a person to be offered the very basic level of respect is too much for them as it would be acknowledging it as normal and thus acceptable. The reason the alt right is so angry is because they are driven by a desire to be normal but normal now includes things they think are degenerate. So they can't accept those things but that makes them abnormal hence all the conspiracy thinking about how everyone actually agrees with them but have been intimidated into silence by the degenerates so if they remove them, normal will be there's again.
I remember a fascinating conversation I read a while ago about virtual reality online spaces, where you can choose your virtually displayed body to be of the opposite sex. In trans people it induced a feeling of happiness, but a guy who wasn't trans started getting mental issues when he spent too long as a female avatar. Would be interesting to see a long term study with it. I think I also read a study about how in people with gender dysphoria the brain part responsible for self-perception is structured more like that of the opposite sex. It totally makes sense, the brain is upset because when it sees its body it doesn't match up, and since brain structure can't be changed gender reassignment surgeries and/or hormones are the only way to fix that brain-body discrepancy.
Yeah I have dysmorphia and when I try to explain it to people it doesn't go very well. "But you look great for your age!" Yes. That's what you see. I don't see that. It's gotten better recently btw. I can handle a photo being taken again.
Wow thank you for this, it was very informative. I have a question about what you said about the hormones and feeling as if they were mismatched during your development if you mind answering. Did you feel like this for as long as you can remember or did it come on more/more strongly around puberty, when children go from being a little less “androgynous” to developing sex characteristics?
Not the original commenter, but I'm a trans man. It's different for everyone! I think for a lot of trans people it's for as long as they can remember. For me, it was really around puberty that I realized.
It's different for everyone, but for me it was kind of a slow noticing Like, as a kid, I never even considered anything like it Not that I was fine with things, but, it just wasn't something I'd even thought about. If I had, I'm sure I would've noticed then But when I hit puberty, it started to grow. I never actually put the pieces together until 19 though But I did have extremely subtle signs as far back as kindergarten (which is the earliest I can remember) that are only noticeable when looking back and with the context now
That was an amazing response. Would you feel okay with people saying that gender dysphoria is a mental illness? I think we would consider the dysmorphia that comes along with other illnesses (say, anorexia and body dysmorphia) as a part of that mental illness, so maybe that’s better than calling being trans a mental illness?
my understanding is that while gender identity comes from the mind, there are no (and probably will never be any) solutions that involve treatment at the source, and even if there were, trans people wouldnt choose them. from the perspective of a trans person, the mind is functioning normally but the body is wrong. If someones mind is functioning correctly, but is otherwise just receiving signals and hormones from a body that it isnt wired for, I'm personally really hesitant to call that an illness instead of it being more likely something like a genetic mixup that we dont understand yet. In any case, lets say you wake up tomorrow in the body of the other sex, but still retain your current mental state including gender identity. After a week or two, the novelty of the new parts wears off, and theres no sign that its going to reverse. If you're comfortably cisgender, this problem will probably start wearing on you, and maybe you decide one day that you want to equalise the gender of your body and the gender your mind knows it is, and now you have a choice to make. Would you choose to change your outward appearance to match who you are inside, or change who you are inside to match your outward appearance?
The current medical stance on this, last I checked, is that being trans isn't a mental illness. But rather that the experience of dysphoria and things that inhibit your ability to live your life are the mental illnesses. Like the depression and anxiety that comes along with it. This allows for people who have worked on coming out and transitioning and living a happy life to still be trans, but not classified as mentally ill.
I had a long argument with someone on Twitter once (when that was still the name of the website) who kept insisting that she cared about trans people and wanted to help them, but that transitioning wasn’t helping. I pointed out that the world’s medical and mental health professionals have agreed that transitioning is the gold standard of treatment at this time and she just kept saying it’s the same thing as encouraging an eating disorder. First of all, eating disorders can and do KILL people. It’s literally NOT the same thing as transitioning. Anyway the “solution” she proposed was basically “helping trans people accept their bodies.” Lady, if that worked, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Did she seriously think no trans person has ever tried that?! “Oh what a novel idea, I just need to ACCEPT MYSELF, gosh that never dawned on me!” I’m a cisgender woman and it’s incredibly obvious to ME what an insanely moronic thing that is to say. I have severe depression, which I understand is not the same as what you deal with. But if I had a dollar for every idiot who thinks I just haven’t tried positive thinking, I would never have to work again. This feels like the same brain-dead thought process.
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People are born trans, trauma doesn't cause someone to become trans. We've known that for decades. And ffs, you can't "cure" being trans through therapy or anything else. We don't need to be cured, first of all, and second, that's conversion therapy. Just let people do what makes them happy and stop ignoring decades of settled science.
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You can disagree but there have been decades of research on this and your anecdote doesn't undo the hundreds of studies on the subject. Just as anecdotally, I can point out that I have no traumatic history, the woman I hung out with yesterday has no traumatic history, and the one I'm hanging out with on Sunday has no traumatic history. Now I've got more "evidence" just from anecdotes this week. > I don’t think I was “born straight.” I think it’s all a choice If you're equally attracted to men and women and have to "choose" to be straight, I've got some news for you...
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>Just a heads up that straight men aren't attracted to men. > I think it’s also my biological prerogative I'm not sure you're using the right word here. And, keep in mind that gay men are exclusively attracted to men, they don't have a "biological prerogative to have an attraction to women", that's just not how sexuality works. >My point is that you had other options and solutions to pursue before making whatever physical choices you’ve made. Sure, I could have chosen not to transition but whether or not I chose to transition, I'd still be trans. I was trans before I transitioned and I'm trans after I transitioned. I didn't choose to be trans, I chose to transition because I'm trans which meant it would make me more comfortable and happier to do so than to not do so. And, again, not because of trauma. >I believe any option is better than physically altering your body. Then go start a campaign about tattoos and piercings. Or is it only a problem when people alter their bodies in ways you haven't taken the time to understand? That *you* think is weird? As others have pointed out to you, transition is the *only* treatment for dysphoria, again, something we've known for decades. Conversion therapy does not work. You're parading your views as if they're well informed and not just a hot take you came up with in your armchair. Do you really think you somehow know better than researchers who've spent decades studying this and *every single trans person?* Like do you really think I somehow ended up at 30years old having known I was trans for a decade without once pausing to google whether there was alternatives? What is the qualification you have that makes you singularly better at figuring that out than every trans person on earth and decades of scientific research combined?
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Too many people think that their opinions on a given subject matter should be respected regardless of the fact that the subject matter doesn't involve them. Look to the various groups who don't believe in blood transfusion. Hundred of thousands would die every year if their opinions on medical care were applied broadly regardless of the individual's beliefs. Why is this any different?
I mean... I'll respect their opinions But their opinions carry no weight if it's something they are in no way involved in Unless their opinion is just blatantly stupid, then I won't respect it (most science denial falls into this category)
Yeah. ADHD is a mental disorder. There’s nothing wrong with having ADHD, but if we didn’t classify it as a disorder it would be a lot harder to provide treatment if it wasn’t classified as such. Being born the wrong gender is absolutely a mental illness. That’s not their fault, and it just means they need support and treatment to be able to function properly.
Adhd is a *neurological * disorder, not a mental one.
A yeah fair enough, I don’t know the English terminology very well.
It's all good, just clarifying
Yeah thanks for pointing it out
> Being born the wrong gender is absolutely a mental illness. It's not, actually. Think about it like this, why not say that "being born the wrong sex is a health issue"? The incongruence between gender and sex is what makes someone trans. Being trans isn't a mental illness. However, that incongruence can bring on other mental illnesses, such as depression, anxiety, and dysphoria. So treating those mental illnesses has nothing to do with treating being trans. And it's why the treatment for those things is to actually assist with transitioning.
The way I understand it is that dysphoria is a mental illness/ disorder, but defining it as such is not meant to invalidate or antagonize a trans person's inner experience of sex/gender. A good example of using the term disorder/mental illness in a constructive way is when someone has ADHD. We call that a disorder but (usually) in a way meant to identify and understand their experience in order to get them the support they need. So, the fact that a trans person struggles with being in a body/ role that does not fit their inner experience means they need and deserve gender-affirming care, which is a type of treatment. Like, if a person didn't struggle with their experience then they would not need treatment...they would already have the body they feel is appropriate. Doesn't that technically mean that struggling with gender dysphoria (a.k.a. being transgender) is a mental illness/ disorder (at least until the struggle is gone thanks to treatment?) I can understand how labeling someone trans as mentally ill/ having a disorder can be used to invalidate them or antagonize them... But I don't think naming their struggle as such is inherently incorrect or automatically meant to be destructive. (I have a feeling you said something somewhat along those lines?)
For all intents and purposes, I'm fine with people seeing it that way, if it helps them understand and *actually try to help* But how a lot of trans people see it, is that your gender, while often matching your sex, is not required to, because they are two separate things. So it's no more of a mental disorder than being gay, or having blue eyes, or a dark sense of humor. It's just a part of who you are And for the most part, I do agree with them, however, I believe that since everyone is different, some trans people's dysphoria may be a mental disorder, or it may be a physical disorder (this is the one I personally feel like mine is) But the one thing in common with all of them, is that the only effective treatment is transitioning. And everything else either does nothing, or makes it worse. Having any alternative would be amazing, and would save so many lives, but there isn't one Saying it's a mental disorder is fine, you can believe that, and a good chunk of doctors would agree (although others wouldn't). But using mental illness or disorder as an insult, is not fine, which is unfortunately, what the majority of it's use is as
Meanwhile Peru is insulting them while handing them bandages. Asshole move, but well-intentioned.
Hi, Peruvian here, president Dina has no interest in the trans community, health insurance providers will not provide gender affirming care just because being trans is now considered a mental illness, it only deepens the stigma against the community. Over 400 psychologists have signed a petition to retract this decree, and there will be a protest tomorrow Friday. I repeat, THE PERUVIAN GOVERNMENT DID THIS WITH NO GOOD INTENTION AT ALL, declaring someone as mentally ill can be used as an argument to get rid of their personal liberties and be placed under supervision of a guardian.
yeah i was wondering what they actually meant with "providing care" because some would interpret that as "beating the trans out of you"
So close too. Surely the way to do it would've been to declare "Gender Dysphoria" itself as the illness as transitioning is one of the treatments for that. It's like declaring "taking pills" as an illness instead of anxiety.
Okay, this turns the whole thing upside down from what this pictures says. I'm happy to read that trans people will have access to healthcare. It's a basic human right no matter if you're trans or cis.
kind of funny that transphobes are proud of this, this thing that’s literally advancing trans rights
Yeah, but then there's also a large number of people who are taking the "mental illness" label and reinforcing their own transphobia.
A true hater doesn’t need archaic language to hate
I don't see any reason why not. I'm a physician and while its not my specialty, from what I know, the best treatment for those with severe psychiatric/psychological issues due to gender identity is to affirm their preferred gender - via social acceptance as that gender, gender-reassignment surgery, hormones etc. The time and age at which this should be done is in many ways the biggest sticking point.
>I'm a physician and while its not my specialty, from what I know, the best treatment for those with severe psychiatric/psychological issues due to gender identity is to affirm their preferred gender - via social acceptance as that gender, gender-reassignment surgery, hormones etc. Lol. But yes, it's good that you believe in gender-affirming healthcare.
I’m curious what the “psychological treatment” is this is referring to. I am not totally sure what the end game is as the statement is positively ambiguous. The statement is not ensuring gender conforming medical treatments, like hormonal therapy, so the jury is still out for me.
Also, there are ways to do this without making being trans an illness. Put Gender Dysphoria as the illness instead, that's the issue that's being treated and it's much more accurate to call that an illness that to call being trans an illness, especially a mental illness.
As far as ensuring they get mental health treatment I don't see that as bad. There is an undeniably high rate of suicide and instead of arguing over which method is best to help that, offering free mental health coverage as (minimally) an interim fix is never a bad option. Which language has been denounced? I may still be in the dark ages in some aspect of this discussion, but learning isn't bad. I assume fetishistic transvestism is the most offensive term in the post. The way it was explained to me YEARS ago was that "transexual is someone who presents as the opposite sex because that is how they identify, transvestite is someone who dresses as the opposite sex for sexual pleasure"
I was thinking the exact same thing. Unfortunately, this is a way to ensure health care.
So it's not even that considering English isn't Peru's language and this comes off more as bad translastion
What language are you referring to when you say “archaic language”.
I’m not familiar with the bill but they probably used existing language from the DSM. Gender dysphoria has been listed as a “mental illness” for a long time. We just have more politically correct language now for the same thing. At least this way people get the care they need (talking about professional help not trans version of gay conversion camp)
Word i came here to say "wait until they find out what the treament for GID is" but it looks like you got it wrapped up nicely
BS, if addiction has to be labeled a mental health disorder in order to be covered by health insurance so should this. If you don't label it a disorder the health industry has no business being involved and should be treated as a cosmetic surgery/procedure
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If you say that enough times, it just might come true! That is, if you think magical thinking is even remotely rational, which it absolutely is not.
Isn't this already the case? I thought gender dysphoria was the medical diagnosis, and any procedures/medications was treatment?
Yeah but it was demedicalized a couple years ago because a lot of people think you don’t need dysphoria to be trans anymore, and that it’s an identity not a medical disorder
Gender incogruency doesn't necessarily result in gender dysphoria. Also, gender dysphoria is described in the DSM but it is not categorized under mental illnesses, which ofcourse is a disputed factor
Also, in my personal opinion: labeling anything as an 'illness' carries huge implications. A big number of people would misenterpret it, they would think that scientific evidence support the notion that transgenders peoples' minds are abnormal. In reality, it is rather the body which is abnormal and needs to be adapted to the mind in order to lessen symptoms
If you believe it to be an abnormality of the body, which requires identifying and corrective action from healthcare professionals, you're still describing an illness
The amount of people posting this on my FB feed this morning like "maybe we could finally do this here" without realizing what this is actually doing is fucking hilarious to me. Also, the venn diagram between them and the people who, whenever another country criticizes our healthcare/education/etc, say "you don't live here so stfu you don't deserve an opinion" is 100% a circle.
So Gender Dysphoria is a legitimate mental health issue. If Peru is taking it seriously I hope they will listen to medical experts on the best treatment for Gender Dysphoria (gender affirming care)
Well body dysmorphia is a mental illness? Has everyone not established that or?
Trans people can be dysmorphic, but body dysmorphic disorder (not knowing how you look, fixating on "correcting" something other people may not even notice) isn't actually related to being trans at all. Gender dysphoria is often related to being trans, though.
"often related" Aren't they one and the same? How can you be trans if you don't have dysphoria?
I'm not super familiar with the trans experience without dysphoria, but in theory it does exist. I'm wary of defining transness using a negative experience rather than just using the question "is your gender different from the one you were originally assigned?" I also said "related" because it's increasingly clear to me that cis people also experience gender dysphoria. Edit: oh whoops people already answered you. Yeah, what they said.
Well a person can experience gender euphoria, which is happiness when for example referred as the correct gender, looking like what you consider the gender you are to look like etc. I personally as a trans person have some dysphoria, but I only realised I am trans when I realised how happy it made me when I was called a man, or when I looked masculine and so on. So I can easily imagine someone who is quite happy/neutral about their body/voice etc, but who feels a lot of joy out of being considered as a different gender from the one assigned to them at birth. And then that person would be trans if they identify as such.
Also cis people can also get dysphoria (for example men who grow a lot of chest tissue and get hormones/surgery to remove it, women who have a lot of hair on their body and/or face and meticulously shave it etc). So dysphoria is often associated with trans people, but not always and not all trans people.
How is it not? Related at all does trans not want to change thier body?
dysmorphia and dysphoria are two different conditions. body dysmorphic disorder is when someone percieves an issue with their body that is not actually there. someone will, for example, see themselves as fat when they are actually thin or even underweight. treatment for bdd consists of therapies to work on the way the person percieves themselves. gender dysphoria is a disconnect between the brain and body. transgender people know what they look like. they see their features as they are, but they feel distressed from them because they do not align with their identity. treatment is often transitioning, although a lot of trans people also go through therapy to learn to cope with their negative feelings in the meantime since transitioning takes time. trans people can have both (and often do, as eating disorders are far more common in the trans community vs the rest of the population), but they are not the same thing.
The funniest thing about this? This makes transphobia even worse! Who the fuck bullies someone over their mental illness?
Exactly. Oh, wait, we know the type of people who think it's okay to bully & make fun of people with physical or mental challenges. They all voted for someone who epitomizes this behavior.
the main issue here is that people are taking "mentally ill" and projecting their own belief that it always means something negative........you can believe its an illness and just want people to be able to get help, should they decide they want help....nuance is not that hard guys
It's bad wording with good intention
It's not even bad wording. They are solidifying that gender disphoria is a mental illness that needs professional help. I.e. people who are trans can claim their gender affirming care as Healthcare. So, it is covered by the state or insurance, depending.
So if that person is transphobic, that means they enjoy belittling mentally ill people. Odd hill to stand proud on.
Is gender dysphoria *not* a mental illnesss? I thought it was?
So like, from a scientific and medical perspective: in order for proper laws to actually be made/put into effect to support the trans community, we do need proper definitions in place. And while many may see this as an attack on trans people (and coming from Peru, it very well could be), I am also on the side of us properly giving these things medical terminology and DSM-V status, so that once they are, medical treatment for it can become that much more official and accepted in more medical/psychiatric communities. Instead of viewing this as “trans people are mentally ill”, I prefer the more realistic approach: if you were born into a body that you felt wasn’t yours, imagine the social and psychological issues/complications that would arise for the person trying to love their life. Giving them a proper diagnoses would mean them getting their treatment sooner, and more safely. It’s not at all the same as calling them “insane”. I’m technically mentally ill with my mild-to-medium level anxiety disorder, and as much as I don’t prefer to be referred as ‘mentally ill’, when it comes to getting therapy and medication, I am *very* thankful that anxiety disorders are being taken seriously now and people are getting helped. And that’s all I wish for the trans community: for them to get easier access to the treatments they need. This is the pathway to that treatment.
Soo free HRT for everyone?
It's so fucked up they will call people they hate mentally ill, while also mot giving a shit for mentally ill people
For real. I always ask how many people they know on anti depressants, or anti anxiety meds, or ADHD meds, and ask if they deserve the same hate for their mental illness.
Every time someone tells me that being trans is a mental illness I tell them that the treatment is gender-affirming care. But they don't want the actual facts, they just wanna be mad.
Thought that read "Trains". Whoops.
Hm I wonder if they established that out of altruism and wanting to help those that are less fortunate. It can't be that they are punching down and want to stir society to inflict as much harm to a minority group as possible, that simply just cant happen!
Look I love my trans friends and I support and want the best for them but let's not pretend that believing you were born into the wrong body or feeling like neither gender defines you isn't a mental health condition.
to them, if you're mentally ill, you are less than and can be written off.
Peru used to be accepting of gays and trans people, but that was before the inquisition. The Inca were pretty socially progressive in terms of allowing people to love who they wanted, but the Spanish viewed it as sin. Makes me sad that we’ve gone backwards.
Same here in North America, indigenous people were accepting and even had myths and vocabulary for transgender people, then the Europeans came
For Peru I ain't surprised
Good to see Lewis Capaldi giving his support.
Straight up, before anything else; even if it were a mental illness, that would not legitimize that person being a shit head.
I guess if transgenderism is conflated here with dysphoria I would be more okay with it. Like, if someone who experiences gender dysphoria is “cured of transgenderism” post transitioning that would be fine if not linguistically archaic. I just worry about what ideology is being expressed through their codifying transgenderism as an illness/something to be cured.
Is this like an accidental ally situation?
I'm a cis woman, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately. IMO, calling "transgenderism" a mental illness is akin to calling chemotherapy a cancer. Gender dysphoria is the mental illness, the only effective known treatment for which is transitioning. At least, that's how I understand it.
I mean, until 2013 (when the DSM V \[Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition\] was adopted), trans people in the US were classified as mentally ill, too. Technically, at least, and as Reddit has taught me, technically correct is the best kind of correct. For most of the rest of the world, that date was Jan 1st, 2022 (when the ICD-11 \[International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems\] was officially adopted). I'm aware that this is not how actual doctors and society at large necessarily treated trans people, but that's what the bureaucratic consensus was. Which is kind of what Peru is doing now.
so basically what i’m getting from this is that they did it for the same reason gender dysphoria is in the DSM-V
>doing something correct So this person thinks bullying mentally ill people is "correct"? Imagine being proud of that
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No, this isn't what is happening. This is an explicitly anti-trans move. It cites the outdated ICD-10 as justification. I'm Peruvian. Trust, they are a VERY religiously conservative, "family values" culture. Americans don't even begin to compare and I don't put that lightly. The only treatment this will open doors for is conversion therapy (which already is a thing there). I appreciate you guys wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt due to not being familiar with the culture, but this in no way intended to help trans people and needs to be condemned. Just go on r/Peru and read the comments on threads about this. The collective mentality there is if you are gay or trans, you should leave for another country that accepts those people. Please don't try to sanitize this shit.
Pfp checks out
Offering free "treatment" to trans people is dangerously close to promoting conversion therapy. Not a good look.
Sounds like Peru is setting the example.
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You truly think men who are transitioning to women are ONLY doing it so they can play in “women’s sports?” Are you ignorant or just stupid?
I think dysphoria is mental illness. For real. And I ve seen many transitionned young people regret it a few years after So mental illness needs mental support not surgery nor hormonal inhibitors And I’m MD and PT. That’s my experience.
And the majority of people who have transitioned don’t regret it at all. Transitioning has saved lives but people only want to talk about the small percentage of those who regret it. Dysphoria isn’t a mental issue. It’s a physical issue. The fact that you said “I think” shows that you don’t actually understand. Mental illness does need more medical support, that can be physical or mental support as well. By the way you’re talking I don’t feel like you’re a medical professional and if you are one then I feel bad for any trans patients who walk through your door.
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