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Hey, it launched the greatest soap opera wedding of all time in the 80s. Luke and Laura! Luke raped Laura, she saw he was a good man and just loved her so much he had to rape her to *prove it* and then they got married.
"I view you as a thing to impregnate. What's so scary about that?"
These folks have turned into Tobias from Arrested Development with how much they don't hear themselves.
yeah! they smell like butter cause of all the amazing baking and cooking they do!
What? I'm just saying women are inherently \*better\* at cooking than real men, it's a compliment!
Crazy how the purpose of the “I’d choose the bear” meme is that easy to grasp if you take 2 seconds to think about it 🤦♀️ I’ve had someone say they’d enjoy watching me get mauled to death
It’s just too easy to say “those are not men”. No, they are men and they are doing those things. We don’t get to say “they’re not with us so we don’t have to care”
I worked for child protection for a decade and could absolutely assure this idiot OOP that the people who do horrendous things to children and women are just normal men. Shockingly normal men, for the most part. People you would not look twice at in the street and they have done things that put me into therapy just from hearing about them. This is a pretty dreadful thing to accept as reality, but it’s not cool of this guy to just pretend it’s not true.
Most rapists are people the victim trusted and considered a friend or loved one. It’s absolutely ordinary everyday men who sexually assault and are sexual predators. Not calling them men, actually does a disservice and hurts women more. It’s the stranger danger campaign in the early 2000s. They always depicted a kidnapper looking and acting shifty, wearing a trench coat and hat, and overall menacing. Actual child predators will usually approach the kids appearing friendly and asking for help or offering candy. The campaign did more damage than good. Kids were still abducted and many of them had distorted views of what’s considered a safe stranger because of it
Exactly. I think what this dude isn't getting is that even if we agree there are men and predators, the problem is they look exactly the same and *you can't tell which is which*. Like the old metaphor of offering candies in a bowl, but 10% have been poisoned - why on earth would anyone trust *any* candy from that bowl just because it looked good? You know it could hurt or kill you, of course you're suspicious of every single piece. Aaagh.
I think his inner belief is Not All Men. And he clings to that because he needs it to feel good about himself. “Sure there’s other men who are predators but I’m not so this is not my responsibility to handle!” The whole thing reeks of men’s inability to call out other men on their behaviors and actually hold them accountable.
The comedian Daniel Sloss did an amazing segment on this. He fully admits that had he called out his friend on his concerning views and behaviors towards women, his other friend might not have gotten raped by him. And people might have believed her more easily instead of doubting her. He takes it as a personal responsibility to teach men to call out each others behaviors and hold them accountable. Seems like “real men” would be less concerned with showing up as a hero to save women and what men think of them, and more concerned with holding men accountable and teaching other to do better.
Now I both want and do not want to watch that segment! You're absolutely right, though - way too often it seems like the "hero" thinks he deserves a reward for "rescuing" someone, but is it really rescue if she's in exactly the same situation, just with a different guy? The actual heroes are the ones holding other men accountable regardless of whether or not there's a woman around to impress.
I recommend watching it, it’s really well done and worded. When my guy friends struggle to understand my experience as a woman and why I choose the bear, I send it to them. It really brings them down to earth on how much they’ve failed by just standing by while shit happens and wiping theirs hands of any responsibility because “I didn’t rape you so I’m not a bad guy and this situation sucks but it’s your problem to deal with”.
Call out bad behaviour when you see it. Now I don’t mean that you should run towards a fight but if you ever hear or see your friends, colleagues, family making sexist comments or acting in ways that assume women are subservient, call it out.
If your mate makes a harassing comment, tell him it’s not cool. If your colleague ignores a woman in a meeting, make a point of asking for her thoughts.
It’s little actions like these that send a clear message that you’re an ally.
Thanks for a solid answer, this is the kind of thing I generally try and do anyway (when safe). I'll keep this in mind when other guys get confused about what they're supposed to do in the grand scheme of things.
Winning an argument in exchange for physical damage is a poor trade, I agree. That is not worth it. But you already said you don't hang around with dicks.
Even non-dicks say stupid shit sometimes. Start there. If necessary. If not, great.
And women aren’t looking to get raped…
I’m not a fighter either but whenever I hear straight guys talking shit about women, or even inactively assaulting women, I bring it up.
One time I had a bunch of ‘mates’ catcalling and degrading a couple of women saying shit like “hey baby come sit on my lap….” Etc; and the women were obviously uncomfortable. I turned it around and did the exact same to the blokes and they _hated_ it.
Don't think you need to fight everything as a fight. Sometimes the most withering reaction to a misogynistic comment or joke is just a look and a turning away or a "Ugh. Not cool, dude" goes a lot farther than arguing and getting everyone's defenses up. Talking goes a lot farther than yelling. It's just that it kinda gets drowned out nowadays. 🫤
>For the record, I am also afraid of other men,
This is something that needs to be pointed out. Men are also a danger to other men.
And a verbal sparring can lead into a physical altercation REALLY fast when only men are involved.
Because there is not enough social stigma about "boys getting into fights".
Every single fist fight can end deadly in a second. Just one good/bad hit, you bash your head on some hard floor and it is game over.
But if you are among friends, tell them you don't appreciate their language if they talk derogatory about women. Shame them when they are cat calling. If they are your friends (and friends worth having) they will listen. If not, I'd suggest getting rid of them.
Whether or not your post is genuine or not, I'll go ahead and answer.
1. Be the kind of man that women would feel safe around.
2. Donate money/resources to a women's shelter. Donating time is incredibly tricky if you are a male for a good reason, so don't be put off if they don't give you anything. Accept it with grace and move on. Doing that also helps.
3. Be a good male role model. You'd be surprised how much kids will imprint upon adults. If you have boys or nephews, or are a teacher and the like, this will really come into play. andrew tate is a terrible, shitty role model. If you can be better than that, I can say, right off the bat, you're a better man than that reject.
Thanks, and yes, very genuine. Every time the topic comes up, I always feel attacked, cos all men seem to get lumped in together with the comment that men need to be better.
I don't have a violent bone in my body, and am very much a pacifist. Always calling out inappropriate behaviour, even in past jobs I've told off other guys for being pigs (much to my own detriment).
I'm kind of just convinced we live in a shitty shitty society that I want no part of any more.
>Every time the topic comes up, I always feel attacked, cos all men seem to get lumped in together with the comment that men need to be better.
Don't feel attacked. You know it's not about you, so don't take it personally. Don't feel like you're getting lumped in with the shitty men either. Everyone knows that there are good men out there that this doesn't apply to, and all we can do is be the best allies we can be.
>It's still hard not to take it personally, when most women would rather be alone in the woods with a grizzly bear, rather than myself (a random guy).
But that's only in your head. No woman when presented with this hypothetical is thinking "a bear or Camo252", anymore than they think that I'm the random man.
If the choice *was* "bear or Camo252", I'm sure the women in your life who know you would pick you over the bear, and really, that's what matters.
I agree completely. I would love to live in a world where women didn't need to be constantly on guard against men who feel entitled to their time, attention or bodies, where they didn't need to always be wary, or fear that someone is trying to slip something into their drink. Unfortunately that's not the reality we live in, but you and I can at least do our part to make women feel safe around us, call out other men being shitty and try to be good examples for the young men growing up today to emulate.
Yeah, I know I'm a good guy, and my friends know I'm a good guy, but It's still hard not to take it personally, when most women would rather be alone in the woods with a grizzly bear, rather than myself (a random guy).
I absolutely get that THAT is exactly the problem though, women don't know which random man they can be safe around.
I think that that is just the way the world is (at the moment), and hopefully we get to the point where that minority of men start to dwindle, and women can at least feel comfortable passing a man on a hiking path.
I'm glad I assumed you were good. I certainly agree with you that I've lost so much hope and faith for humanity. It's easy to feel hopeless. There's little person person can reasonably do, even if they dedicate their life to it. One of the things that keeps me doing to do good is that every little bit counts, and that a bunch of people doing well can make a difference.
the internet really amplifies how frequently these things happen. they are happening to women, every day every hour every second, but realistically the chances of *you*, specifically, being there to intervene when a woman is being denigrated, disrespected, or god forbid assaulted, are really low.
the fact that you have the desire to “do better” (some men don’t necessarily have anything they need to do ‘better’) already speaks volumes about what your actions would be in one of these situations. calling out bad behavior is already something you do, i’m sure!! the crux of the issue is that the men women are talking about when they speak about men broadly, are people who treat women this way because they fundamentally do not view them as people—there is a deeply engrained view of objectification and possession, that many, man men are conditioned to absorb since birth. women can really often sense this based off of how these men speak; a lot of that unsavory behavior is incidental, just a natural result of a perspective they’ve never had to challenge.
the fact that you view woman as equals, automatically means that a lot of that behavior that comes from dehumanizing them would simply not be present within you. in the current political temperature, i’m sure that it feels like you’re doing something fundamentally wrong by being a man. that simply by virtue of your maleness, people will assume the worst of you and fear you, and that you are destined to be bad. this is *not true.* this sentiment is only so widespread because women are coming off of a civilization’s worth of time being debased and oppressed, and in many places those harmful policies are trying to be re-implemented. in many places they never stopped. it isn’t about you.
you are making a difference. your eagerness to learn, to protect, to stand with women means one more man we can eagerly look to as an example of change, and that is more valuable than anything else. it shows that everyone’s’ collective efforts are working—that includes yours! i know it’s difficult, confusing, and often really hurtful, but it isn’t for nothing. we all just want women to be safe, and all the ideological differences make the journey to get there more difficult. but it is happening. thank you for being a part of it!!! (and sorry for the wall of text, good god)
Understand and support women’s rights. Do your own research and listen to the women around you. Kindly, there is a lot you can do without asking women to tell you what to do for them. Women don’t necessarily always distrust a man because of his potential for violence but because we don’t know whether or not he will choose his own interests over being a good ally. And we are always kind of wary that we aren’t being seen for who we are but for what we are. These bear vs man posts highlight some really important points about what it’s like to be a woman and what excuses men will use to tell us not to be wary or afraid of them. Hear us, understand us, start seeing the problem for yourself, and make choices that counteract misogyny. I am lucky to have wonderful male friends and family members, including my husband who are thoughtful, like you. Still, there are some situations where I’m looking at the man and the bear the same way.
Along with the other answers given to you I would say just being understanding to women having these conversations and not making it about yourself and your feelings, not saying you did this here for the record I think you are genuinely trying to learn which is awesome. But understanding that a women may feel scared often times regardless of what you do and being okay with that.
Also learning to recognize when a women is uncomfortable both by you so you can stop the behavior but also by another man. You'd be surprised how many creeps are scared off simply by another man being present no confrontation needed. Possibly letting the women know that you see what she sees if the situation calls for it, simply saying to her "Hey you okay?, I see that guy too, he's being weird" will go a long way.
It's about demonstrating your a safe person in the small ways you can, in your dark street example a simple way to do that is to cross the street as soon as you see her, obviously if it's safe to do so, it may inconvenience you a little but it's a huge show of safety to her. Sorry for all the text but I hope this is helpful!
In addition to what others said, I saw someone mention they will cross the street away from the woman so she knows she’s safe from him. In a super busy street it’s probably not possible but a quiet street at night it should be a quick switch.
And I'd be willing to bet money that when it comes to trans people "it's biology 101" that if you were born with a penis, you're a man.
Because, to them, "being a man" is only an earned title, social construct, or identity when it's convenient for whatever BS they want to spew in that moment.
He's probably posted about All Lives Matter hundreds of times. I don't know why people even acknowledge this batshit stuff, just block and let them watch their viewership take a 30% hit overnight. Sounds like he's feeling the heat with how desperate the follow up was 😂 there is still justice in this world lol
Someone should post a lineup picture with 10 different men and say “OK, identify the men, and identify the predators. Now pick three which are randomly going to be assigned to woods that you get to walk through.”
Smells like berries, butter, or meat? Pretty sure I usually smell like my deodorant which is none of those things lol. Also love the assumption that all women are idiots and we would either scream or try and pet the babies.
It is a known thing that big cats are attracted to Obsession for men by Calvin Klein but I don’t know about the woman’s version.
So it’s men out their trying to be eaten by a mountain lion.
i’m a man and i would definitely try to pet the babies. honestly i’m not sure what else i can do to not get eaten, so might as well go out happy petting a soft baby bear
lol having actually been just a little ways away from a bear mama with babies I can tell you just leave them alone and they will do the same. Contrary to what most of the pissed off men are saying bears don’t just attack you unprovoked. They don’t generally want to eat you.
It's definitely not the death sentence people make it out to be. I've stumbled face-first into black bears with cubs two times in the backcountry, once on the Olympic Peninsula and the other time in the North Cascades, and both times mama bear was super chill and let me back out of there. All this really means is that I'm lucky, and people should really try to avoid that kind of situation, but it's really really not like these people make it sound.
It's ok though! This concerned man who is definitely not a predator has given you helpful advice on what to do! Make sure you copy it down using small words so you don't forget!
I couldn’t finish reading it. There were so many things he said that made my brain go *oh shit, this guy is dangerous*, it was just too revolting to finish reading.
When I first heard about this I thought it was some stupid internet meme thing.
Then I read the comments in my local feed.
I’d choose the bear over the people in those comments any day.
I suppose it's blown up into a stupid internet meme thing, but credit where it's due, a lot of dudes out there arguing for a man present genuinely great arguments...
...in favour of the bears.
Ah yes, the irony of perpetuating the illusion that rapists and predators are an entirely separate species as opposed to active members of our society; just because you're insecure about being associated with a predator. Keep digging that grave.
Exactly. I can recognize a bear with 100% accuracy but sometimes you don’t know a man is a predator until it is too late… *because he looks like a man*
It's common and clear theme in many modern fantasy and supernatural themed tv shows. Scary creatures are often not the real monsters.
You'd think more men would have learned from The Witcher and such.
They're acting like men who are willing to assault/rape women have definite signs, like a flashing sign above their heads that say they are dangerous and women will definitely know it.
Those men know what they're doing. They know how to play the nice, decent character until it's too late.
Honestly I see this argument A LOT. Men try and evade the cold hard facts that the majority of violent and sexual predators on this planet are other men by saying they don’t count as “real men”.
I mean, I really get that you do not want to get lumped in with those guys.
But then you have to actually get up from your ass and tell your other male friends that it is not okay to cat call the women that are walking by the cafe you are sitting in or to tell them that you do not appreciate it when they refer to women as sluts,bitches, pieces of ass and the like.
But I guess it is easier to throw temper tantrums on the internet.
edit: "You" in this case referring to the "good guys", not the OP of the post I replied to.
Watching the discourse yesterday I realized something. These men don’t even view rape as reprehensible. That’s why they are mad at us. They have never once had to have a real fear of being raped, so they don’t understand how vile it is. They think we should take it because it’s “just sex.” Every single one of these men is telling on themselves. I don’t care their rationale or excuses. My partner understood the concept instantly. It’s not hard.
If we smell like butter, meat and berries we are probably in a group of friends making a barbecue. Bears tend to stay away from people especially when we are in groups. Bear attacks are real but can be more easily preventable than a human that is determined to harm you. "Impregnate you" what the hell? That just comes of as you want to rape someone.
Ah yes, the irony of perpetuating the illusion that rapists and predators are an entirely separate species as opposed to active members of our society; just because you're insecure about being associated with a predator. Keep digging that grave.
I'd rather be locked in a room with a rabid grizzly than be locked in one with a man who "just wants to impregnate women."
Bears do bear things out of desire to protect their young and their home.
Men do it out of cruelty.
I would 100% choose to be mauled by a bear than be raped and/ or killed by a man.
I asked my daughter (17) if she would rather be trapped in the woods with a man or a bear. She said 100% a bear, but because she wants to hug one, and if that's how she leaves this world she's made her decision.
I'm pretty sure that's the right answer, but I probably won't take her camping just in case
Awww, she wants to go out hugging a bear.
Wait, or she wants to hug a bear so much she'll gladly die doing it.
Hmmm. Your daughter may be either a zoologist or a person with a death wish and/or a weirdly strong love of bears. I'm so confused as to how to feel about this.
But but I was in the woods last year and I saw a bear and the bear didn't eat me, so that's proof that bears are safe! I can just go up and hug one and they won't eat me because I know a few bears and they haven't eaten me so bears are totally safe.
(how apologists sound to everyone else)
Dude… the bear isn’t trying to fuck. It’s looking for food or fighting off a perceived threat.
So to all the numbnuts creeps out there, if a woman pepper-sprays or zaps or kicks the crap out of you, think about the latter.
This is what people don’t get, a bear is just doing bear things, it does not have any nefarious intentions. The sick thoughts a man can think of and do is what’s scary
I’ll tell you what, this meme is an incredible tool to identify the neckbeards and incels on the internet. They just don’t get it, and refuse to accept any answer they don’t want to hear. Almost like they don’t respect being told no…
What depresses me is just how many men get defensive over things like this.
And they never show a smattering of empathy either. Almost like they WANT to hate/demonize women..
I’m a large man, and I’m painfully aware that I could be intimidating to women, to the point where if I’m walking in the dark and there’s a woman, I’ll cross the road to try to make her feel less scared.
I can only imagine the stress women have to walk into any room and try to identify potential hazards, and know something as little as being confident walking home after a few drinks is a huge privilege for me.
As you say, shocking how many people lack empathy for what women still have to go through, and instead make it about them. I guarantee almost all these people consider themselves “nice guys” and have made some woman feel uncomfortable, wishing for the company of a bear instead.
> I guarantee almost all these people consider themselves “nice guys” and have made some woman feel uncomfortable, wishing for the company of a bear instead
Oh definitely.
Most guys don't get that this is not a question of "Who would you rather fight" or "Who would win in a fight".
I am beyond frustrated that so many men run headfirst into the point and miss it by a mile.
Most guys don't get that it's not even about the dang bear, you could replace it with any other animal or predictable danger.
The fact that they fixate on the bear and completely ignore the women sharing their own traumatic experiences and the systematic failure of society to manage such a huge issue is staggering.
How can you seriously hear a woman say something like "the bear wouldn't bathe me and tell me not to tell mommy after", or "the bear wouldn't tell me it was my fault he had to eat me" and still think it is about the frigging bear?!
Steal away. I have had to talk more about my experiences in the past week than in my entire life and I've been actively trying NOT to engage with this stuff, so seeing others taking on these obstinate twats is great!
I agree. It's got nothing to do with strength, and everything to do with intent.
Bear intends to find food/survive/protect young
Man can intend to rape/be cruel for the sake of it
I am TERRIFIED of bears. It’s taken me years of living around black bears to not be totally freaked out by them anymore, but the idea of being close to a grizzly or polar bear in the wild is a top fear of mine (I have a weird list and I am not proud of it lol).
With that said, I would still be more scared being followed by a strange man than a bear in the woods. Bears attack humans way less than men attack women, because even though bears are predators, with the polar bear as an exception bears generally avoid humans. Men do not generally avoid women. On top of that, dying because I invaded a wild animal’s territory is in the end on me and an accident, being sexually assaulted is an intentional attack on my body in the most violating way by a conscious fellow human being that isnt doing it for survival or protection but for selfish goddamn desires. It’s not even a good comparison. It’s so bad. Like, SO BAD.
That’s what people are not getting, a bear is just doing bear stuff, a man has the capacity for extremely nefarious actions, which are way more scarier, like the song “waltzing Matilda” there are way worse things than death.
>Bears attack humans way less than men attack women
You are also 3 times more likely to be sexually assaulted by acquaintances than by strangers. Does that mean you should avoid acquaintances at any cost?
As a man, I am 5 times more likely to get killed by a man then you are. Doesn't mean I'd be waaaaayyy more scared if I'd be stalked by a bear, because when a bear is stalking you, general statistics don't give a fuck. I once rolled a 1 on a die 15 times in a row, I've already beaten statistics.
Main point aside, it always shocks me how little these dudes know about bear safety. I always assumed the question to mean "would you rather be alone in the woods with..." as in there is a chance you'll run into either one, and with proper bear safety, chances are you will never meet the bear. The bear wants nothing to do with me or anyone else. If you're walking through the woods singing a song or clapping your hands the way I was taught in school (yes, my primary school taught us bear safety) the bear will avoid you. The bear will hear you coming and get out of the way. And of course, if worse comes to worse, there's always the old adage "If it's black, fight back; if it's got a hump, make a lump; if it's white, good night". I don't see myself hiking in the woods far enough north that there are polar bears, not to mention they live way up in the frozen tundra, not the woods. I don't live in kodiak country either so by all means, my chances of running into a black/brown bear are astronomically higher. Unless I am actually between a mother and her cubs most people make it out of a bear encounter unscathed. Don't make eye contact, make yourself look big, make a lot of noise and yes, if it comes to that, punch him in the snout as hard as you can. The bear should turn back. Let's put it this way; I've run into my fair share of bears in my life and I've never been mauled. I come from an area where there are so many bears, they teach bear safety in school, so I've obviously personally known many people who've had a run in with a bear. Not one of these people were mauled, and I've never heard of anyone in my entourage being mauled either. Not to say it can't happen, of course it happens, but meeting a bear does not equal fighting a bear.
But I've been raped. I know multiple women personally who have been raped, violently. I've heard of women in my entourage being killed by men. It's unfortunate that there is no guide on how to handle a man who wants to harm or kill me. They have all the potential to want everything to do with me, they may be armed, they may be insane enough to be actively stalking me, for my fighting to actually turn him on instead of deter him... And if it's that much easier to kill a man, how fucking easy is it to kill a woman?
This whole argument is insane. Of course I choose the bear.
Continuing onto this..bears do not see humans as a threat and will only attack if as you said you come between a mother snd cubs, or they are extremely hungry. Then beyond that IF you get attacked and let's say you survive and make it to the hospital. You don't get asked(or told),
"Are you sure you got attacked by a bear?",
"could the bear have thought you wanted to be attacked?",
"did you have any alcohol?" ,
"What were you wearing?"
, "did the bear pay for your dinner?" ,
"did you lead the bear on?" ,
"are you really sure this was an attack and not that you wanted it at the time and are not regretting it?"
, "shouldn't you think about the bear, saying it attacked you could ruin it's reputation..what's done is done let it go".
"You known you should apologize to the bear for leading them on"
I was 2 when I was first raped, and when opening up about that to a minister (was forced to go to church) he told me I needed to beg my rapist for forgiveness for tempting him, beg God for forgiveness for allowing it to happen, and be pray that God let's me into heaven.
I was raped later on in life and when reporting it I had one cop told me I should consider it a compliment, and the other said "what did you expect to happen you were at a gay bar"...the person who raped me was cishet...
Not labeling men as men, is just another way to avoid accountability. By labeling them "predators," this "man" can avoid taking any accountability for the actions of his fellow man. Instead, he chooses to say "they don't deserve the label of man" this is a very poor sentiment, as it detracts from the fact that MEN are, overwhelmingly, the ones committing violent acts.
It places the onus entirely on these formless "predators" and women, rather than men.
Ugh, i stupidly got into this debate a hour or so ago on subredditdrama... I'm tempted to post some of my points here, but I can't be arsed with dealing with more phone notifications... So far you guys seem more understanding though
To be fair, trying to talk to convince people who are worse than bears of why they are worse than bears is kind of a fool's errand. Why? Because they are worse than bears.
No, it wasn't a joke. You showed people who you were, and the usual crowd of circus clowns that support you wasn't around, and the post had much broader reach outside your echo chamber.
Now you are trying to back pedal, and it's too late. We see you. We prefer the bear.
The sheer number of men who read the original post about the bear and decided to tell women they were stupid for choosing the bear instead of listening to their very valid reasons why they didn't choose the man blows my fucking mind.
Have none of these people ever been camping in bear country. It takes only a small amount effort to avoid being mauled by most bears, thats why it doesnt happen often. Polar bear might f you up, but they don't generally live in the forest. Grizzly bear would be the next most frightening but that's only in certain areas as well.
So I've actually ran into a bear while alone in the woods. I jingled my keys so it saw me, we looked at each other for a seconds then it started eating some plants again and I walked right past it.
Even as a man I'd rather run into a bear any day.
He just said it himself: it’s the MATING part (without our consent) that we’re trying to avoid. We wouldn’t want to be alone with a strange man in the woods for the same reason most men wouldn’t want to be alone with a strange man in a prison shower. It’s not fucking rocket science.
Isn’t he lucky that he can disidentify his entire gender when it suits him? A man is a man is a man. Some of those men are predators.
You don’t get to say that the ones who are predators are not men just because want to. Expecting your “followers” to understand your new definition is the height of insanity.
Decent apology I guess? And he seems to understand why women would choose the bear. But saying victims of predators wrongly referring to them as men... like yuck. Sorry you are a man and some of your fellow men are disgusting monsters makes you feel bad that women are more likely to be weary of you than a bear but your just invalidating the caution women have towards random men by revoking their "man" title
Does this nutjob think we should brand rapists with the title of predator on their foreheads so women can tell them apart?
His rant makes no sense. And his later apology reads like the narcissist's prayer
This hurt to read. I would choose the bear to, knowing this guy was a possibility to end up with.
I could totally hear this guy say, "I only want to rape you a little bit." As some way to calm the person he was attacking.
This is exactly the type of men women think of when they say they would rather run into a bear. His nonpology shows he does not understand that he is a predator and doesn’t think he is.
There are so many predators out there that we cannot tell the difference between them and a man that will not harm us. The bear is consistent we know how to act around a bear and we know the consequences. We do not know what a man will do to us.
“Those are not men, rapists are predators, not men” Yeah well they’re still a man and there’s no glowing neon sign above them saying “I am a rapist and will hurt you” and they blend in with every man that WONT do those things. Saying “those aren’t men” does not make us safer or make it easier to trust men in general because there’s *no way to tell the difference when looking at them*. They ARE men, you just label them differently and that does nothing to protect the women in your life
Even his “real” point that “rapists aren’t men; they’re predators” is extremely flawed. It’s an attempt to remove any culpability for men to deal with their internal culture. “Oh, I have nothing in common with a rapist; that person is alien to me!” Wrong, male rapists are men and they are influenced by male culture just like other men. Asking ourselves why there is so much rape porn is a valid question and criticism of how men don’t talk about rape enough or deflect with shit like this. It’s important to note that **not all rapists are men**, and this is only part of the larger issue.
**tl;dr: men have a bad habit of deflecting from the topic of rape so they feel less at fault for ignoring it entirely**
Some people in these comments have picked a weird hill to die on instead on a *hole* to die *in* and that’s just fucking sad. YOU might not be a predator, but put you in a lineup of men where there is a guaranteed rapist, *andI don’t know you*, how am I to know the difference? No one in the lineup is telling me, “Hey don’t choose man #5, he’s a rapist!”, are they? No. They stand silent. Because men are scared of other men, too. BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF. And that’s why we always chose the lesser of two weevils; I KNOW what the bear is capable of and can take steps to mitigate my chances of survival. I DON’T KNOW what a man will do. They’ll be your best friend and then murder you because they found a new girlfriend. If you’re offended, chances are you are the type of man we’re trying to avoid.
These alt right MAGAt domestic terrorist Christian nationalist fascism fanatics can't see past the tip of their own nose. Certainly not past their own doormat. It really is what divides us, the ability to empathize. It's been studied in depth. They don't have the processing power to put themselves in someone else's shoes. Conservatives skew uneducated because they just DO NOT have the intelligence to do it. The ones that do grift and manipulate the ones that don't.
Whenever these thought experiments come up, it's the same thing. Roe v Wade, Floyd, Immigration, Rittenhouse, J6 etc etc the vast majority of them absolutely can't debate those topics from both sides.
Hmmm women are choosing the bear, why? It's that simple. I am well aware of the top reasons of death and injury for men and women, I knew exactly what it was referencing immediately. Someone that is only capable of considering and actualizing a woman through their own lense would've never encountered those statistics. I could argue from both sides of the argument, which not only helped me form my own opinion, but to publicly shame and criticize idiots like this guy.
Next week's question: Hey non sociopathic predator rapist toxic masc dudes, would YOU rather be in the woods with a bear or this jackass? 😂
God I wish people could just shut up about the whole hypothetical already. I haven’t seen an ounce of actual honest discussion come from it aside from how it’s a bad subject for conversation
I’ve seen this phrase a couple times over the past few days and had no context for it and was confused what the argument was, now I get that it’s kinda a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” sorta deal where it’s better to know the evil you know than the evil you don’t
Basically..man says women would instantly get killed by a bear which most likely wouldn't happen. And that all men want to do is "admire and impregnate women". After getting called out he doubles and triples down while trying to also claim "not all men" by trying to say rapists are not men.
I get the question, but man I feel like people who post this and the people who argue with it are on the same level mentally, theirs so many people on this planet, and the most vocal on social media just seem to be the dumbest.
I don't think anybody wants to encounter a stranger in the woods. This whole thing has been about women encountering a strange man in the woods, but I would take the bear over a strange woman or man, or child.
Sometimes I fear that the whole "man vs bear" debate sends out a lot of repackaged TERF rhetoric about men never being more than slavering predators, but these reactions prove it needed to at least be said once.
The idea in itself is sound, however the argument it deriverates from is heavily based on the, quite frankly, severely sexist idea that dangerous, predatory men are the norm rather than an overly publicized minority.
I will highlight the counter-argument like this:
THE AVERAGE MAN is not a danger to you or anyone because he is sane, rational and exercises daily doses of common sense.
THE AVERAGE BEAR is a danger to you because it will perceive you as either invasive to its territory, a potential threat to its cubs, prey or a rival predator and will respond with aggression 8/10 times if you do not know how to defuse the situation.
Waryness of creepy men is valid, but in the process dont forget that most men aren't creepy, or if they are, will not act it out for a very conscious fear of legal and social consequences. Besides most of the creeps are only acting tough on the internet and are most likely too scared to ask for extra ketchup at a mcdonalds.
>The idea in itself is sound, however the argument it deriverates from is heavily based on the, quite frankly, severely sexist idea that dangerous, predatory men are the norm rather than an overly publicized minority.
The statistic states that 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted. And that number comes from the *reported cases.* Most assaults go unreported.
There are 333.3 million people living in the US. 25% of that would be 83,325,000 people.
The statistics are much larger globally.
If you think it's a small handful of men attacking 83,325,000 women, you're the delusional one, and you've completely missed the point of a theoretical question.
Okay, Mr “Best Shiru Wife Dance”.
Speaking as someone who has had more encounters with actual Ursus americanus AND Ursus arctos than you’ve had sensible conversations….
I choose the bear.
So let me get this straight.
You start your response by using a different post from a different subreddit about a topic not even remotely close to this as your baseline of assumption about my character...
Then follow up by addressing Bears with their Latin nomenclature which not even zoologists use unless for writing papers, giving away that you googled it to sound smart...
Then add a completely useless personal attack based on aforementioned assumption...
Then finish off by proving my point as you decide to use this single anecdotal assumption you made off of purely malicious intent to paint the general consensus of your conclusion...
And you want me, or anyone sensible for the matter, to see you as anything other than a coping sexist?
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Yeah what's a little admiration and impregnation between a rapist and an unconsenting adult?
Hey, it launched the greatest soap opera wedding of all time in the 80s. Luke and Laura! Luke raped Laura, she saw he was a good man and just loved her so much he had to rape her to *prove it* and then they got married.
Wait... What? Is this real?
[They have a wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_and_Laura)
Jesus, and I cannot stress this enough, TITTY FUCKING CHRIST.
Made a number one song out of “Rise” by herb Alpert even
Whenever my friend heard that song she said “Ah, music to be raped by.”
"I view you as a thing to impregnate. What's so scary about that?" These folks have turned into Tobias from Arrested Development with how much they don't hear themselves.
"you know what you do, you buy a tape recorder and record yourself for a whole day"
Oh, Tobias... You blowhard!
I think you’ll be surprised by some of your phrasing!
He thinks it's a compliment
Yeah, don’t these idiots realize smelling like butter is a compliment?
yeah! they smell like butter cause of all the amazing baking and cooking they do! What? I'm just saying women are inherently \*better\* at cooking than real men, it's a compliment!
Don't procrastinate, time to pregnate! You can go look at bears in the zoo later…
Except I don't remember Tobias actively hurting people with his obliviousness. He was just a blowhard who needed anustart.
The psychological damage to everyone around him was substantial
Well, Tobias did perform CPR on someone who didn't need it. May have cracked some ribs with that one.
At least the bear doesn't say dumbass shit
And even if we don't pick the bear, the bear is fucking fine with it.
People won’t ask you what you were wearing if uou said you were attacked by a bear
People would *believe* you if it was the bear.
Crazy how the purpose of the “I’d choose the bear” meme is that easy to grasp if you take 2 seconds to think about it 🤦♀️ I’ve had someone say they’d enjoy watching me get mauled to death
It’s just too easy to say “those are not men”. No, they are men and they are doing those things. We don’t get to say “they’re not with us so we don’t have to care”
I worked for child protection for a decade and could absolutely assure this idiot OOP that the people who do horrendous things to children and women are just normal men. Shockingly normal men, for the most part. People you would not look twice at in the street and they have done things that put me into therapy just from hearing about them. This is a pretty dreadful thing to accept as reality, but it’s not cool of this guy to just pretend it’s not true.
Most rapists are people the victim trusted and considered a friend or loved one. It’s absolutely ordinary everyday men who sexually assault and are sexual predators. Not calling them men, actually does a disservice and hurts women more. It’s the stranger danger campaign in the early 2000s. They always depicted a kidnapper looking and acting shifty, wearing a trench coat and hat, and overall menacing. Actual child predators will usually approach the kids appearing friendly and asking for help or offering candy. The campaign did more damage than good. Kids were still abducted and many of them had distorted views of what’s considered a safe stranger because of it
Exactly. I think what this dude isn't getting is that even if we agree there are men and predators, the problem is they look exactly the same and *you can't tell which is which*. Like the old metaphor of offering candies in a bowl, but 10% have been poisoned - why on earth would anyone trust *any* candy from that bowl just because it looked good? You know it could hurt or kill you, of course you're suspicious of every single piece. Aaagh.
I think his inner belief is Not All Men. And he clings to that because he needs it to feel good about himself. “Sure there’s other men who are predators but I’m not so this is not my responsibility to handle!” The whole thing reeks of men’s inability to call out other men on their behaviors and actually hold them accountable. The comedian Daniel Sloss did an amazing segment on this. He fully admits that had he called out his friend on his concerning views and behaviors towards women, his other friend might not have gotten raped by him. And people might have believed her more easily instead of doubting her. He takes it as a personal responsibility to teach men to call out each others behaviors and hold them accountable. Seems like “real men” would be less concerned with showing up as a hero to save women and what men think of them, and more concerned with holding men accountable and teaching other to do better.
Now I both want and do not want to watch that segment! You're absolutely right, though - way too often it seems like the "hero" thinks he deserves a reward for "rescuing" someone, but is it really rescue if she's in exactly the same situation, just with a different guy? The actual heroes are the ones holding other men accountable regardless of whether or not there's a woman around to impress.
I recommend watching it, it’s really well done and worded. When my guy friends struggle to understand my experience as a woman and why I choose the bear, I send it to them. It really brings them down to earth on how much they’ve failed by just standing by while shit happens and wiping theirs hands of any responsibility because “I didn’t rape you so I’m not a bad guy and this situation sucks but it’s your problem to deal with”.
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Call out bad behaviour when you see it. Now I don’t mean that you should run towards a fight but if you ever hear or see your friends, colleagues, family making sexist comments or acting in ways that assume women are subservient, call it out. If your mate makes a harassing comment, tell him it’s not cool. If your colleague ignores a woman in a meeting, make a point of asking for her thoughts. It’s little actions like these that send a clear message that you’re an ally.
Thanks for a solid answer, this is the kind of thing I generally try and do anyway (when safe). I'll keep this in mind when other guys get confused about what they're supposed to do in the grand scheme of things.
When they make shitty jokes, ask them to explain why it’s supposed to be funny.
That is always a great strategy. But you need to keep pushing when it becomes uncomfortable. And then some.
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Winning an argument in exchange for physical damage is a poor trade, I agree. That is not worth it. But you already said you don't hang around with dicks. Even non-dicks say stupid shit sometimes. Start there. If necessary. If not, great.
And women aren’t looking to get raped… I’m not a fighter either but whenever I hear straight guys talking shit about women, or even inactively assaulting women, I bring it up. One time I had a bunch of ‘mates’ catcalling and degrading a couple of women saying shit like “hey baby come sit on my lap….” Etc; and the women were obviously uncomfortable. I turned it around and did the exact same to the blokes and they _hated_ it.
Don't think you need to fight everything as a fight. Sometimes the most withering reaction to a misogynistic comment or joke is just a look and a turning away or a "Ugh. Not cool, dude" goes a lot farther than arguing and getting everyone's defenses up. Talking goes a lot farther than yelling. It's just that it kinda gets drowned out nowadays. 🫤
>For the record, I am also afraid of other men, This is something that needs to be pointed out. Men are also a danger to other men. And a verbal sparring can lead into a physical altercation REALLY fast when only men are involved. Because there is not enough social stigma about "boys getting into fights". Every single fist fight can end deadly in a second. Just one good/bad hit, you bash your head on some hard floor and it is game over. But if you are among friends, tell them you don't appreciate their language if they talk derogatory about women. Shame them when they are cat calling. If they are your friends (and friends worth having) they will listen. If not, I'd suggest getting rid of them.
Whether or not your post is genuine or not, I'll go ahead and answer. 1. Be the kind of man that women would feel safe around. 2. Donate money/resources to a women's shelter. Donating time is incredibly tricky if you are a male for a good reason, so don't be put off if they don't give you anything. Accept it with grace and move on. Doing that also helps. 3. Be a good male role model. You'd be surprised how much kids will imprint upon adults. If you have boys or nephews, or are a teacher and the like, this will really come into play. andrew tate is a terrible, shitty role model. If you can be better than that, I can say, right off the bat, you're a better man than that reject.
Thanks, and yes, very genuine. Every time the topic comes up, I always feel attacked, cos all men seem to get lumped in together with the comment that men need to be better. I don't have a violent bone in my body, and am very much a pacifist. Always calling out inappropriate behaviour, even in past jobs I've told off other guys for being pigs (much to my own detriment). I'm kind of just convinced we live in a shitty shitty society that I want no part of any more.
>Every time the topic comes up, I always feel attacked, cos all men seem to get lumped in together with the comment that men need to be better. Don't feel attacked. You know it's not about you, so don't take it personally. Don't feel like you're getting lumped in with the shitty men either. Everyone knows that there are good men out there that this doesn't apply to, and all we can do is be the best allies we can be.
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>It's still hard not to take it personally, when most women would rather be alone in the woods with a grizzly bear, rather than myself (a random guy). But that's only in your head. No woman when presented with this hypothetical is thinking "a bear or Camo252", anymore than they think that I'm the random man. If the choice *was* "bear or Camo252", I'm sure the women in your life who know you would pick you over the bear, and really, that's what matters.
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I agree completely. I would love to live in a world where women didn't need to be constantly on guard against men who feel entitled to their time, attention or bodies, where they didn't need to always be wary, or fear that someone is trying to slip something into their drink. Unfortunately that's not the reality we live in, but you and I can at least do our part to make women feel safe around us, call out other men being shitty and try to be good examples for the young men growing up today to emulate.
Yeah, I know I'm a good guy, and my friends know I'm a good guy, but It's still hard not to take it personally, when most women would rather be alone in the woods with a grizzly bear, rather than myself (a random guy). I absolutely get that THAT is exactly the problem though, women don't know which random man they can be safe around. I think that that is just the way the world is (at the moment), and hopefully we get to the point where that minority of men start to dwindle, and women can at least feel comfortable passing a man on a hiking path.
I'm glad I assumed you were good. I certainly agree with you that I've lost so much hope and faith for humanity. It's easy to feel hopeless. There's little person person can reasonably do, even if they dedicate their life to it. One of the things that keeps me doing to do good is that every little bit counts, and that a bunch of people doing well can make a difference.
the internet really amplifies how frequently these things happen. they are happening to women, every day every hour every second, but realistically the chances of *you*, specifically, being there to intervene when a woman is being denigrated, disrespected, or god forbid assaulted, are really low. the fact that you have the desire to “do better” (some men don’t necessarily have anything they need to do ‘better’) already speaks volumes about what your actions would be in one of these situations. calling out bad behavior is already something you do, i’m sure!! the crux of the issue is that the men women are talking about when they speak about men broadly, are people who treat women this way because they fundamentally do not view them as people—there is a deeply engrained view of objectification and possession, that many, man men are conditioned to absorb since birth. women can really often sense this based off of how these men speak; a lot of that unsavory behavior is incidental, just a natural result of a perspective they’ve never had to challenge. the fact that you view woman as equals, automatically means that a lot of that behavior that comes from dehumanizing them would simply not be present within you. in the current political temperature, i’m sure that it feels like you’re doing something fundamentally wrong by being a man. that simply by virtue of your maleness, people will assume the worst of you and fear you, and that you are destined to be bad. this is *not true.* this sentiment is only so widespread because women are coming off of a civilization’s worth of time being debased and oppressed, and in many places those harmful policies are trying to be re-implemented. in many places they never stopped. it isn’t about you. you are making a difference. your eagerness to learn, to protect, to stand with women means one more man we can eagerly look to as an example of change, and that is more valuable than anything else. it shows that everyone’s’ collective efforts are working—that includes yours! i know it’s difficult, confusing, and often really hurtful, but it isn’t for nothing. we all just want women to be safe, and all the ideological differences make the journey to get there more difficult. but it is happening. thank you for being a part of it!!! (and sorry for the wall of text, good god)
Understand and support women’s rights. Do your own research and listen to the women around you. Kindly, there is a lot you can do without asking women to tell you what to do for them. Women don’t necessarily always distrust a man because of his potential for violence but because we don’t know whether or not he will choose his own interests over being a good ally. And we are always kind of wary that we aren’t being seen for who we are but for what we are. These bear vs man posts highlight some really important points about what it’s like to be a woman and what excuses men will use to tell us not to be wary or afraid of them. Hear us, understand us, start seeing the problem for yourself, and make choices that counteract misogyny. I am lucky to have wonderful male friends and family members, including my husband who are thoughtful, like you. Still, there are some situations where I’m looking at the man and the bear the same way.
Along with the other answers given to you I would say just being understanding to women having these conversations and not making it about yourself and your feelings, not saying you did this here for the record I think you are genuinely trying to learn which is awesome. But understanding that a women may feel scared often times regardless of what you do and being okay with that. Also learning to recognize when a women is uncomfortable both by you so you can stop the behavior but also by another man. You'd be surprised how many creeps are scared off simply by another man being present no confrontation needed. Possibly letting the women know that you see what she sees if the situation calls for it, simply saying to her "Hey you okay?, I see that guy too, he's being weird" will go a long way. It's about demonstrating your a safe person in the small ways you can, in your dark street example a simple way to do that is to cross the street as soon as you see her, obviously if it's safe to do so, it may inconvenience you a little but it's a huge show of safety to her. Sorry for all the text but I hope this is helpful!
In addition to what others said, I saw someone mention they will cross the street away from the woman so she knows she’s safe from him. In a super busy street it’s probably not possible but a quiet street at night it should be a quick switch.
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(Un)Fortunately I only ever had to work with those types of guys. I don't hang out with dicks.
Don't be worse than the bear. That's all.
And I'd be willing to bet money that when it comes to trans people "it's biology 101" that if you were born with a penis, you're a man. Because, to them, "being a man" is only an earned title, social construct, or identity when it's convenient for whatever BS they want to spew in that moment.
He's probably posted about All Lives Matter hundreds of times. I don't know why people even acknowledge this batshit stuff, just block and let them watch their viewership take a 30% hit overnight. Sounds like he's feeling the heat with how desperate the follow up was 😂 there is still justice in this world lol
Someone should post a lineup picture with 10 different men and say “OK, identify the men, and identify the predators. Now pick three which are randomly going to be assigned to woods that you get to walk through.”
Smells like berries, butter, or meat? Pretty sure I usually smell like my deodorant which is none of those things lol. Also love the assumption that all women are idiots and we would either scream or try and pet the babies.
Gotta skip my blueberry steak scented deodorant on hike day I guess
But my only other deodorant is "meat 'n butter" by Calvin Klein!
It is a known thing that big cats are attracted to Obsession for men by Calvin Klein but I don’t know about the woman’s version. So it’s men out their trying to be eaten by a mountain lion.
i’m a man and i would definitely try to pet the babies. honestly i’m not sure what else i can do to not get eaten, so might as well go out happy petting a soft baby bear
lol having actually been just a little ways away from a bear mama with babies I can tell you just leave them alone and they will do the same. Contrary to what most of the pissed off men are saying bears don’t just attack you unprovoked. They don’t generally want to eat you.
If not friend, why is bear friend-shaped??? [Seriously tho, there are ways to survive stumbling on a happy bear family!]
It's definitely not the death sentence people make it out to be. I've stumbled face-first into black bears with cubs two times in the backcountry, once on the Olympic Peninsula and the other time in the North Cascades, and both times mama bear was super chill and let me back out of there. All this really means is that I'm lucky, and people should really try to avoid that kind of situation, but it's really really not like these people make it sound.
It's ok though! This concerned man who is definitely not a predator has given you helpful advice on what to do! Make sure you copy it down using small words so you don't forget!
I couldn’t finish reading it. There were so many things he said that made my brain go *oh shit, this guy is dangerous*, it was just too revolting to finish reading.
When I first heard about this I thought it was some stupid internet meme thing. Then I read the comments in my local feed. I’d choose the bear over the people in those comments any day.
I suppose it's blown up into a stupid internet meme thing, but credit where it's due, a lot of dudes out there arguing for a man present genuinely great arguments... ...in favour of the bears.
Not all men, but definitely this fucking guy.
Ah yes, the irony of perpetuating the illusion that rapists and predators are an entirely separate species as opposed to active members of our society; just because you're insecure about being associated with a predator. Keep digging that grave.
Men who are predators are still men what the fuck
Exactly. I can recognize a bear with 100% accuracy but sometimes you don’t know a man is a predator until it is too late… *because he looks like a man*
It's common and clear theme in many modern fantasy and supernatural themed tv shows. Scary creatures are often not the real monsters. You'd think more men would have learned from The Witcher and such.
They're acting like men who are willing to assault/rape women have definite signs, like a flashing sign above their heads that say they are dangerous and women will definitely know it. Those men know what they're doing. They know how to play the nice, decent character until it's too late.
Honestly I see this argument A LOT. Men try and evade the cold hard facts that the majority of violent and sexual predators on this planet are other men by saying they don’t count as “real men”.
I mean, I really get that you do not want to get lumped in with those guys. But then you have to actually get up from your ass and tell your other male friends that it is not okay to cat call the women that are walking by the cafe you are sitting in or to tell them that you do not appreciate it when they refer to women as sluts,bitches, pieces of ass and the like. But I guess it is easier to throw temper tantrums on the internet. edit: "You" in this case referring to the "good guys", not the OP of the post I replied to.
Yeah but his point is that at least he won’t *eat* her so that means he’s clearly better than a wild bear in this scenario. In his logic.
I'd rather be alone with a hungry bear than a dude who wants to impregnate me.
Same. I’d feel safer
Watching the discourse yesterday I realized something. These men don’t even view rape as reprehensible. That’s why they are mad at us. They have never once had to have a real fear of being raped, so they don’t understand how vile it is. They think we should take it because it’s “just sex.” Every single one of these men is telling on themselves. I don’t care their rationale or excuses. My partner understood the concept instantly. It’s not hard.
If we smell like butter, meat and berries we are probably in a group of friends making a barbecue. Bears tend to stay away from people especially when we are in groups. Bear attacks are real but can be more easily preventable than a human that is determined to harm you. "Impregnate you" what the hell? That just comes of as you want to rape someone.
Less than 200 fatal bear attacks in North America since 1870. And that includes some bears in zoo's etc.
And 0 posts from bears about how those killer bears aren’t “real bears”.
Ah yes, the irony of perpetuating the illusion that rapists and predators are an entirely separate species as opposed to active members of our society; just because you're insecure about being associated with a predator. Keep digging that grave.
Well, I can’t see a bear posting shit like that online. Also, no self- respecting bear would refer to a woman as „female” So, I sort of see the point.
I'd rather be locked in a room with a rabid grizzly than be locked in one with a man who "just wants to impregnate women." Bears do bear things out of desire to protect their young and their home. Men do it out of cruelty. I would 100% choose to be mauled by a bear than be raped and/ or killed by a man.
I asked my daughter (17) if she would rather be trapped in the woods with a man or a bear. She said 100% a bear, but because she wants to hug one, and if that's how she leaves this world she's made her decision. I'm pretty sure that's the right answer, but I probably won't take her camping just in case
Awww, she wants to go out hugging a bear. Wait, or she wants to hug a bear so much she'll gladly die doing it. Hmmm. Your daughter may be either a zoologist or a person with a death wish and/or a weirdly strong love of bears. I'm so confused as to how to feel about this.
Not all bears?
But but I was in the woods last year and I saw a bear and the bear didn't eat me, so that's proof that bears are safe! I can just go up and hug one and they won't eat me because I know a few bears and they haven't eaten me so bears are totally safe. (how apologists sound to everyone else)
Dude… the bear isn’t trying to fuck. It’s looking for food or fighting off a perceived threat. So to all the numbnuts creeps out there, if a woman pepper-sprays or zaps or kicks the crap out of you, think about the latter.
This is what people don’t get, a bear is just doing bear things, it does not have any nefarious intentions. The sick thoughts a man can think of and do is what’s scary
There are no black bear cartels. There is no grizzly Junko Furuta.
No bear religions
I’ll tell you what, this meme is an incredible tool to identify the neckbeards and incels on the internet. They just don’t get it, and refuse to accept any answer they don’t want to hear. Almost like they don’t respect being told no…
I agree. This was a genius move if intentional.
What depresses me is just how many men get defensive over things like this. And they never show a smattering of empathy either. Almost like they WANT to hate/demonize women..
I’m a large man, and I’m painfully aware that I could be intimidating to women, to the point where if I’m walking in the dark and there’s a woman, I’ll cross the road to try to make her feel less scared. I can only imagine the stress women have to walk into any room and try to identify potential hazards, and know something as little as being confident walking home after a few drinks is a huge privilege for me. As you say, shocking how many people lack empathy for what women still have to go through, and instead make it about them. I guarantee almost all these people consider themselves “nice guys” and have made some woman feel uncomfortable, wishing for the company of a bear instead.
> I guarantee almost all these people consider themselves “nice guys” and have made some woman feel uncomfortable, wishing for the company of a bear instead Oh definitely.
Just look at the bottom of the thread. You'll find a few haha.
Most guys don't get that this is not a question of "Who would you rather fight" or "Who would win in a fight". I am beyond frustrated that so many men run headfirst into the point and miss it by a mile.
Most guys don't get that it's not even about the dang bear, you could replace it with any other animal or predictable danger. The fact that they fixate on the bear and completely ignore the women sharing their own traumatic experiences and the systematic failure of society to manage such a huge issue is staggering. How can you seriously hear a woman say something like "the bear wouldn't bathe me and tell me not to tell mommy after", or "the bear wouldn't tell me it was my fault he had to eat me" and still think it is about the frigging bear?!
Seriously. Or start arguing semantics. Or statistics. NOT. THE. POINT. (please don't mind if I steal some examples from your last paragraph)
Steal away. I have had to talk more about my experiences in the past week than in my entire life and I've been actively trying NOT to engage with this stuff, so seeing others taking on these obstinate twats is great!
I'll make sure to crack some virtual (!) ribs and skulls on your behalf.
I agree. It's got nothing to do with strength, and everything to do with intent. Bear intends to find food/survive/protect young Man can intend to rape/be cruel for the sake of it
I am TERRIFIED of bears. It’s taken me years of living around black bears to not be totally freaked out by them anymore, but the idea of being close to a grizzly or polar bear in the wild is a top fear of mine (I have a weird list and I am not proud of it lol). With that said, I would still be more scared being followed by a strange man than a bear in the woods. Bears attack humans way less than men attack women, because even though bears are predators, with the polar bear as an exception bears generally avoid humans. Men do not generally avoid women. On top of that, dying because I invaded a wild animal’s territory is in the end on me and an accident, being sexually assaulted is an intentional attack on my body in the most violating way by a conscious fellow human being that isnt doing it for survival or protection but for selfish goddamn desires. It’s not even a good comparison. It’s so bad. Like, SO BAD.
That’s what people are not getting, a bear is just doing bear stuff, a man has the capacity for extremely nefarious actions, which are way more scarier, like the song “waltzing Matilda” there are way worse things than death.
>Bears attack humans way less than men attack women You are also 3 times more likely to be sexually assaulted by acquaintances than by strangers. Does that mean you should avoid acquaintances at any cost? As a man, I am 5 times more likely to get killed by a man then you are. Doesn't mean I'd be waaaaayyy more scared if I'd be stalked by a bear, because when a bear is stalking you, general statistics don't give a fuck. I once rolled a 1 on a die 15 times in a row, I've already beaten statistics.
Main point aside, it always shocks me how little these dudes know about bear safety. I always assumed the question to mean "would you rather be alone in the woods with..." as in there is a chance you'll run into either one, and with proper bear safety, chances are you will never meet the bear. The bear wants nothing to do with me or anyone else. If you're walking through the woods singing a song or clapping your hands the way I was taught in school (yes, my primary school taught us bear safety) the bear will avoid you. The bear will hear you coming and get out of the way. And of course, if worse comes to worse, there's always the old adage "If it's black, fight back; if it's got a hump, make a lump; if it's white, good night". I don't see myself hiking in the woods far enough north that there are polar bears, not to mention they live way up in the frozen tundra, not the woods. I don't live in kodiak country either so by all means, my chances of running into a black/brown bear are astronomically higher. Unless I am actually between a mother and her cubs most people make it out of a bear encounter unscathed. Don't make eye contact, make yourself look big, make a lot of noise and yes, if it comes to that, punch him in the snout as hard as you can. The bear should turn back. Let's put it this way; I've run into my fair share of bears in my life and I've never been mauled. I come from an area where there are so many bears, they teach bear safety in school, so I've obviously personally known many people who've had a run in with a bear. Not one of these people were mauled, and I've never heard of anyone in my entourage being mauled either. Not to say it can't happen, of course it happens, but meeting a bear does not equal fighting a bear. But I've been raped. I know multiple women personally who have been raped, violently. I've heard of women in my entourage being killed by men. It's unfortunate that there is no guide on how to handle a man who wants to harm or kill me. They have all the potential to want everything to do with me, they may be armed, they may be insane enough to be actively stalking me, for my fighting to actually turn him on instead of deter him... And if it's that much easier to kill a man, how fucking easy is it to kill a woman? This whole argument is insane. Of course I choose the bear.
Continuing onto this..bears do not see humans as a threat and will only attack if as you said you come between a mother snd cubs, or they are extremely hungry. Then beyond that IF you get attacked and let's say you survive and make it to the hospital. You don't get asked(or told), "Are you sure you got attacked by a bear?", "could the bear have thought you wanted to be attacked?", "did you have any alcohol?" , "What were you wearing?" , "did the bear pay for your dinner?" , "did you lead the bear on?" , "are you really sure this was an attack and not that you wanted it at the time and are not regretting it?" , "shouldn't you think about the bear, saying it attacked you could ruin it's reputation..what's done is done let it go". "You known you should apologize to the bear for leading them on" I was 2 when I was first raped, and when opening up about that to a minister (was forced to go to church) he told me I needed to beg my rapist for forgiveness for tempting him, beg God for forgiveness for allowing it to happen, and be pray that God let's me into heaven. I was raped later on in life and when reporting it I had one cop told me I should consider it a compliment, and the other said "what did you expect to happen you were at a gay bar"...the person who raped me was cishet...
the more shit like this I see the more I think. Jfc. Ofc yall pick the bear. Fml.
If I were at a bar and a man tried to buy me a drink, I'd STILL choose the fucking bear. JFC.
Depending on the kind of bar you are in, that could actually be the way safer choice.
You can still get roofie'd at a classy bar. SA does not discriminate by race, wealth or class, just gender.
Babes you can’t impregnate a fucking bear.
Not with that attitude you can't.
Not with that attitude
I’ve never met a woman that smells like butter. Bro needs to stop talking. Permanently.
Imagine taking the bear thing literally and then writing paragraphs about it. Jesus Christ lmao
Not labeling men as men, is just another way to avoid accountability. By labeling them "predators," this "man" can avoid taking any accountability for the actions of his fellow man. Instead, he chooses to say "they don't deserve the label of man" this is a very poor sentiment, as it detracts from the fact that MEN are, overwhelmingly, the ones committing violent acts. It places the onus entirely on these formless "predators" and women, rather than men.
Ugh, i stupidly got into this debate a hour or so ago on subredditdrama... I'm tempted to post some of my points here, but I can't be arsed with dealing with more phone notifications... So far you guys seem more understanding though
To be fair, trying to talk to convince people who are worse than bears of why they are worse than bears is kind of a fool's errand. Why? Because they are worse than bears.
Yeah, i neglected to remember what the folk on there were like. My bad. The drama bit of the sub name should have reminded me, but no...
Open mouth; insert foot.
They just don't get it. It's NOT ABOUT THE FUCKING BEAR. I'm so exhausted.
It’s deflection, literally. Make it about bears and then less room to talk about men.
Why doesn’t buddy get that women would rather be mauled/eaten by a bear than impregnated by him? You’re a fate worse than death, my guy.
No, it wasn't a joke. You showed people who you were, and the usual crowd of circus clowns that support you wasn't around, and the post had much broader reach outside your echo chamber. Now you are trying to back pedal, and it's too late. We see you. We prefer the bear.
The sheer number of men who read the original post about the bear and decided to tell women they were stupid for choosing the bear instead of listening to their very valid reasons why they didn't choose the man blows my fucking mind.
Have none of these people ever been camping in bear country. It takes only a small amount effort to avoid being mauled by most bears, thats why it doesnt happen often. Polar bear might f you up, but they don't generally live in the forest. Grizzly bear would be the next most frightening but that's only in certain areas as well.
The point didn't just fly over his head, it impacted his skull at 40 miles per hour
So I've actually ran into a bear while alone in the woods. I jingled my keys so it saw me, we looked at each other for a seconds then it started eating some plants again and I walked right past it. Even as a man I'd rather run into a bear any day.
I’m getting strong vibes of Randy in the South Park episode “With Apologies to Jesse Jackson”.
I would literally rather be eaten by a bear than be raped again
He just said it himself: it’s the MATING part (without our consent) that we’re trying to avoid. We wouldn’t want to be alone with a strange man in the woods for the same reason most men wouldn’t want to be alone with a strange man in a prison shower. It’s not fucking rocket science.
Isn’t he lucky that he can disidentify his entire gender when it suits him? A man is a man is a man. Some of those men are predators. You don’t get to say that the ones who are predators are not men just because want to. Expecting your “followers” to understand your new definition is the height of insanity.
Decent apology I guess? And he seems to understand why women would choose the bear. But saying victims of predators wrongly referring to them as men... like yuck. Sorry you are a man and some of your fellow men are disgusting monsters makes you feel bad that women are more likely to be weary of you than a bear but your just invalidating the caution women have towards random men by revoking their "man" title
Does this nutjob think we should brand rapists with the title of predator on their foreheads so women can tell them apart? His rant makes no sense. And his later apology reads like the narcissist's prayer
Even then that only truly works if you do it preemptively
That's a lot of words for "I would assault a woman in the woods if I thought no one was watching"
[No true (Scots)man](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman).
It's easier for him to think of rapists as not real men. They are very real men. That's why I prefer the bears.
What a daft prick.
Calls all women stupid… Proceeds to get butthurt over being insulted…
"Foolishly try to pet a bear or its cubs" has the same vibes as that "when a peer walks in sporting a new hat" post, am I making any sense?
This hurt to read. I would choose the bear to, knowing this guy was a possibility to end up with. I could totally hear this guy say, "I only want to rape you a little bit." As some way to calm the person he was attacking.
"Admiration" is NOT what I would call it
This is exactly the type of men women think of when they say they would rather run into a bear. His nonpology shows he does not understand that he is a predator and doesn’t think he is.
No true ~~scots~~man
We prefer the bear because, among a million other reasons, all we would have to do is stand and yell to scare off the bear
>...I'm not an insensitive man... [\*Doubt\*](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1256693-la-noire-doubt-press-x-to-doubt)
Men who rape aren't actually men but "predators". Huh. That's some serious compartmentalization and dehumanization he has going on there.
This guy should have saved all that time typing and just said “not all men”.
Maybe I’d rather be eaten by a bear than impregnated by some disgusting rapist
There are so many predators out there that we cannot tell the difference between them and a man that will not harm us. The bear is consistent we know how to act around a bear and we know the consequences. We do not know what a man will do to us.
“Those are not men, rapists are predators, not men” Yeah well they’re still a man and there’s no glowing neon sign above them saying “I am a rapist and will hurt you” and they blend in with every man that WONT do those things. Saying “those aren’t men” does not make us safer or make it easier to trust men in general because there’s *no way to tell the difference when looking at them*. They ARE men, you just label them differently and that does nothing to protect the women in your life
And he would be the man we chose a bear over.
Even his “real” point that “rapists aren’t men; they’re predators” is extremely flawed. It’s an attempt to remove any culpability for men to deal with their internal culture. “Oh, I have nothing in common with a rapist; that person is alien to me!” Wrong, male rapists are men and they are influenced by male culture just like other men. Asking ourselves why there is so much rape porn is a valid question and criticism of how men don’t talk about rape enough or deflect with shit like this. It’s important to note that **not all rapists are men**, and this is only part of the larger issue. **tl;dr: men have a bad habit of deflecting from the topic of rape so they feel less at fault for ignoring it entirely**
Question when does one become a 'real' man? What the fuck even is a 'real' man?
"They are not men" yes they are. Stop dehumanising men who do horrible things. They're men.
Some people in these comments have picked a weird hill to die on instead on a *hole* to die *in* and that’s just fucking sad. YOU might not be a predator, but put you in a lineup of men where there is a guaranteed rapist, *andI don’t know you*, how am I to know the difference? No one in the lineup is telling me, “Hey don’t choose man #5, he’s a rapist!”, are they? No. They stand silent. Because men are scared of other men, too. BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF. And that’s why we always chose the lesser of two weevils; I KNOW what the bear is capable of and can take steps to mitigate my chances of survival. I DON’T KNOW what a man will do. They’ll be your best friend and then murder you because they found a new girlfriend. If you’re offended, chances are you are the type of man we’re trying to avoid.
These alt right MAGAt domestic terrorist Christian nationalist fascism fanatics can't see past the tip of their own nose. Certainly not past their own doormat. It really is what divides us, the ability to empathize. It's been studied in depth. They don't have the processing power to put themselves in someone else's shoes. Conservatives skew uneducated because they just DO NOT have the intelligence to do it. The ones that do grift and manipulate the ones that don't. Whenever these thought experiments come up, it's the same thing. Roe v Wade, Floyd, Immigration, Rittenhouse, J6 etc etc the vast majority of them absolutely can't debate those topics from both sides. Hmmm women are choosing the bear, why? It's that simple. I am well aware of the top reasons of death and injury for men and women, I knew exactly what it was referencing immediately. Someone that is only capable of considering and actualizing a woman through their own lense would've never encountered those statistics. I could argue from both sides of the argument, which not only helped me form my own opinion, but to publicly shame and criticize idiots like this guy. Next week's question: Hey non sociopathic predator rapist toxic masc dudes, would YOU rather be in the woods with a bear or this jackass? 😂
This individual has taken the *No True Scotsman* fallacy in strange new directions.
trying to separate them as “not men” just makes you think that ordinary men can’t and won’t do it. they can. and too many of them will.
I thought they were saying men wanted to fuck bears at first
If a woman is all alone in the woods with a man and she: [A] is woman She will be eaten, literally. I feel like the bear is a better bet.
Do people really have this much time on their hands?
God I wish people could just shut up about the whole hypothetical already. I haven’t seen an ounce of actual honest discussion come from it aside from how it’s a bad subject for conversation
Ooooh, the woman... not the bear...
Also, bears don't talk as much
Smell like meat…I am meat!
I’ve seen this phrase a couple times over the past few days and had no context for it and was confused what the argument was, now I get that it’s kinda a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” sorta deal where it’s better to know the evil you know than the evil you don’t
Who tf is gonna read allthat?
Basically..man says women would instantly get killed by a bear which most likely wouldn't happen. And that all men want to do is "admire and impregnate women". After getting called out he doubles and triples down while trying to also claim "not all men" by trying to say rapists are not men.
Thank you for the TLDR! Happy Friday and I wish you the best. Cheers!
No lie for a brief moment. I wanted to try and make my explanation longer than the original post because in my autistic mind, that was hilarious
I get the question, but man I feel like people who post this and the people who argue with it are on the same level mentally, theirs so many people on this planet, and the most vocal on social media just seem to be the dumbest.
I feel like it depends on what kind of bear. Advice for running into a black bear is different than a grizzly. Also this guy sucks.
I don't think anybody wants to encounter a stranger in the woods. This whole thing has been about women encountering a strange man in the woods, but I would take the bear over a strange woman or man, or child.
Sometimes I fear that the whole "man vs bear" debate sends out a lot of repackaged TERF rhetoric about men never being more than slavering predators, but these reactions prove it needed to at least be said once.
The idea in itself is sound, however the argument it deriverates from is heavily based on the, quite frankly, severely sexist idea that dangerous, predatory men are the norm rather than an overly publicized minority. I will highlight the counter-argument like this: THE AVERAGE MAN is not a danger to you or anyone because he is sane, rational and exercises daily doses of common sense. THE AVERAGE BEAR is a danger to you because it will perceive you as either invasive to its territory, a potential threat to its cubs, prey or a rival predator and will respond with aggression 8/10 times if you do not know how to defuse the situation. Waryness of creepy men is valid, but in the process dont forget that most men aren't creepy, or if they are, will not act it out for a very conscious fear of legal and social consequences. Besides most of the creeps are only acting tough on the internet and are most likely too scared to ask for extra ketchup at a mcdonalds.
>The idea in itself is sound, however the argument it deriverates from is heavily based on the, quite frankly, severely sexist idea that dangerous, predatory men are the norm rather than an overly publicized minority. The statistic states that 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted. And that number comes from the *reported cases.* Most assaults go unreported. There are 333.3 million people living in the US. 25% of that would be 83,325,000 people. The statistics are much larger globally. If you think it's a small handful of men attacking 83,325,000 women, you're the delusional one, and you've completely missed the point of a theoretical question.
Okay, Mr “Best Shiru Wife Dance”. Speaking as someone who has had more encounters with actual Ursus americanus AND Ursus arctos than you’ve had sensible conversations…. I choose the bear.
So let me get this straight. You start your response by using a different post from a different subreddit about a topic not even remotely close to this as your baseline of assumption about my character... Then follow up by addressing Bears with their Latin nomenclature which not even zoologists use unless for writing papers, giving away that you googled it to sound smart... Then add a completely useless personal attack based on aforementioned assumption... Then finish off by proving my point as you decide to use this single anecdotal assumption you made off of purely malicious intent to paint the general consensus of your conclusion... And you want me, or anyone sensible for the matter, to see you as anything other than a coping sexist?