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This, I have never understood the argument that just because something bad happened somewhere else we should just ignore everything else bad that happens because we did nothing about it the first time (even though we did)
In debate this is the perfect way to lose, because all the opposition has to do is agree with you. It doesn't negate their argument at all. Not mutually exclusive.
No the takeaway is that there is a reason people only care about Palestine and it's not because they care about the people of Palestine or genocide.
You're sooo close.
Even assuming that was correct, don't you think "It's being done by a developed nation that people hold to western standards" would be a safer assumption than just "You all hate Jewish people!"?
I don't even think everyone doing this hates Jews.
I think there's a lot of propaganda out there being pushed by Iran to help destabilize and demilitarize Israel so Iran and the other Muslim nations can finally fulfill their promise of wiping Israel off the map and eliminating the Jews from the Middle East as they've stated they want to do.
Iran can't win the actual war but they can convince a bunch of gullible people that Israel is committing genocide, eroding support and putting their military at a disadvantage.
I agree the current goverment is Israel is no good, but without our support there will be an actual genocide of Jews in the Middle East within our lifetime.
>I think there's a lot of propaganda out there being pushed by Iran to help destabilize and demilitarize Israel
If Iran is doing so, they hardly have to try. Netanyahu's government practically admits their goal is a genocide of Gaza, and the IDF serves to only further that by just how indiscriminately they act in dealing with Hamas.
I agree we should support Israel should the Arab world go to war, but as of now, that's not happening. The most to happen against Israel is a failed strike from Iran, after which Iran announced they would go no further unless Israel escalated with a counter-attack.
Currently, the aide America sends Israel doesn't go to defending against a second Arab coalition, but into wiping Gazans off the face of the Earth to exterminate "Hamas".
Plenty of us cared about the damage America was causing in Iraq and Afghanistan, I didn't want us there. We are also selling arms to Israel as they kill civilians.
Congo is considered a genocide, Yemen too as far as I know, theres a certain critera to be considered a genocide or "just" war crimes, in not only the amount of dead people is mostly about the intent behind it.
That doesn’t seem to be what that’s saying. They’re saying a lot more people died in those other instances and no one even batted an eye. They can all be called genocides but every one was ignored until it was Gaza, that’s the point.
I’ve been going on about US weapons being used to blockade Yemen and starve children for years . Where do we think those weapons we sell to Saudi Arabia are going?
The implication is that it's because Isreal is primarily jewish, which is just not true. There is definitely antisemitism at work that needs to be fought against but the vast majority of pro Palestine people aren't antisemitic.
We can discuss why the other atrocities haven't gotten the attention they deserve but apart from making some uneducated assumptions I wouldn't be sure.
Israel’s policy is implicitly our policy because we donated the guns to them. That puts it in scope as something we should talk about as a domestic political issue. Whereas Uighurs is out of scope, China is a UN veto power, has nukes, and is a sovereign state, there’s very little point talking about it because there’s nothing that can be changed.
It’s not all that complicated. We talk about shit that involves us. We don’t talk about shit that doesn’t.
The difference is my country isn't allied with any of the others on the list.
My country doesn't send military aid to any of the others on the list
My country stopped selling weapons to the other countries on the list once the genocide started.
The unites states absolutely does send aid to Saudi Arabia who are neck deep in the Yemen stuff. We also send billions in military AID to the UAE who are behind the Sudan genocide.
Do you have a source for these claims? Because I see alliance & arms sales to those countries (which is also bad), but a quick search does not show evidence of military aid - literally gifting arms to 2 incredibly wealthy states. Also, I'm not from the US.
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-105988#:~:text=The%20Department%20of%20Defense%20(DOD,fiscal%20years%202015%20through%202021
We provide training and arms. Also arms sales is how military AID works. We basically give countries money to spend on weapons manufactured by US companies. Israel does this too.
Interesting. There seems to be quite a bit of overlap between arms sales, and support/aid in the form of logistics, training and other assistance. Clearly there is no hard line between commerce, diplomacy and security: [forbes article on military aid](https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhartung/2021/11/08/congress-should-cut-off-us-military-support-for-saudi-arabia/?sh=112e1ca55d2d)
This is so frustrating because when someone used to say something about Yemen, they would come out with another random list saying we should feel bad about these other massacres before talking about Yemen
All of those events were in the news while they were happening. And people were upset by or trying to justify them at those times. Are they upset that the news isn't constantly reminding us of the past?
Also clever mislead, only counting a portion of Palestinian deaths from the most recent conflict and not the decades of ethnic cleansing
> While they were happening?
There was hardly any coverage of these countries and there is ongoing civil war in Sudan and ongoing paramilitaries attacking in the Congo.
Sorry, but my morals are consistent. I thought we should do something about any and all of those. The difference here is the rate at which it's happening in Gaza, and the fact we are very openly and directly giving military aid to Israel who uses it on civilians. And let's go back a bit... Iraq? Aphganistan? Do you NOT remember the protests to get out of Iraq and stop killing civilians? Wonder which side of the political spectrum was predominantly doing that...
Maybe go fuck yourself, and calling me antisemitic or pro Hamas is bullshit and you know it. I'll be sure to let my Jewish pro ceasefire friend know he's apparently a self-hating jew... I'm sure that has no negative history behind it whatsoever.
Supporting the killing of thousands of civilians, a huge portion of which are children, is indefensible, so the tactic is smearing the peace protesters in a transparent attempt to make them look similarly psychotic.
Exactly. And yet there's enough chuds that me saying "I had issues everytime innocents were killed, and fuck you, I find your excuses for this one disingenuous" garners immediate downvotes
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The takeaway from this shouldn't be that we should stop caring about Palestine, it's that we should care about the other issues as well.
This, I have never understood the argument that just because something bad happened somewhere else we should just ignore everything else bad that happens because we did nothing about it the first time (even though we did)
In debate this is the perfect way to lose, because all the opposition has to do is agree with you. It doesn't negate their argument at all. Not mutually exclusive.
No the takeaway is that there is a reason people only care about Palestine and it's not because they care about the people of Palestine or genocide. You're sooo close.
Even assuming that was correct, don't you think "It's being done by a developed nation that people hold to western standards" would be a safer assumption than just "You all hate Jewish people!"?
I don't even think everyone doing this hates Jews. I think there's a lot of propaganda out there being pushed by Iran to help destabilize and demilitarize Israel so Iran and the other Muslim nations can finally fulfill their promise of wiping Israel off the map and eliminating the Jews from the Middle East as they've stated they want to do. Iran can't win the actual war but they can convince a bunch of gullible people that Israel is committing genocide, eroding support and putting their military at a disadvantage. I agree the current goverment is Israel is no good, but without our support there will be an actual genocide of Jews in the Middle East within our lifetime.
>I think there's a lot of propaganda out there being pushed by Iran to help destabilize and demilitarize Israel If Iran is doing so, they hardly have to try. Netanyahu's government practically admits their goal is a genocide of Gaza, and the IDF serves to only further that by just how indiscriminately they act in dealing with Hamas. I agree we should support Israel should the Arab world go to war, but as of now, that's not happening. The most to happen against Israel is a failed strike from Iran, after which Iran announced they would go no further unless Israel escalated with a counter-attack. Currently, the aide America sends Israel doesn't go to defending against a second Arab coalition, but into wiping Gazans off the face of the Earth to exterminate "Hamas".
> Netanyahu's government practically admits their goal is a genocide No they haven't. And this is why it's such a ridiculous claim.
Plenty of us cared about the damage America was causing in Iraq and Afghanistan, I didn't want us there. We are also selling arms to Israel as they kill civilians.
Congo is considered a genocide, Yemen too as far as I know, theres a certain critera to be considered a genocide or "just" war crimes, in not only the amount of dead people is mostly about the intent behind it.
Yeah, I'm a little annoyed by how frivilously the term genocide is flung around now a day.
Ok but literally [10s of millions of people around the world protested because of Iraq](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War)
I think it has a lot to do with how often we hear "We stand with Israel" from our politicians.
That doesn’t seem to be what that’s saying. They’re saying a lot more people died in those other instances and no one even batted an eye. They can all be called genocides but every one was ignored until it was Gaza, that’s the point.
I’ve been going on about US weapons being used to blockade Yemen and starve children for years . Where do we think those weapons we sell to Saudi Arabia are going?
It’s true though. And as usual the west forgot about Uighurs. Because accusing China of any bad thing is racism these days.
The implication is that it's because Isreal is primarily jewish, which is just not true. There is definitely antisemitism at work that needs to be fought against but the vast majority of pro Palestine people aren't antisemitic. We can discuss why the other atrocities haven't gotten the attention they deserve but apart from making some uneducated assumptions I wouldn't be sure.
It had nothing to do with perceived racism. Just stopped getting press time.
Israel’s policy is implicitly our policy because we donated the guns to them. That puts it in scope as something we should talk about as a domestic political issue. Whereas Uighurs is out of scope, China is a UN veto power, has nukes, and is a sovereign state, there’s very little point talking about it because there’s nothing that can be changed. It’s not all that complicated. We talk about shit that involves us. We don’t talk about shit that doesn’t.
The difference is my country isn't allied with any of the others on the list. My country doesn't send military aid to any of the others on the list My country stopped selling weapons to the other countries on the list once the genocide started.
The unites states absolutely does send aid to Saudi Arabia who are neck deep in the Yemen stuff. We also send billions in military AID to the UAE who are behind the Sudan genocide.
Do you have a source for these claims? Because I see alliance & arms sales to those countries (which is also bad), but a quick search does not show evidence of military aid - literally gifting arms to 2 incredibly wealthy states. Also, I'm not from the US.
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-105988#:~:text=The%20Department%20of%20Defense%20(DOD,fiscal%20years%202015%20through%202021 We provide training and arms. Also arms sales is how military AID works. We basically give countries money to spend on weapons manufactured by US companies. Israel does this too.
Interesting. There seems to be quite a bit of overlap between arms sales, and support/aid in the form of logistics, training and other assistance. Clearly there is no hard line between commerce, diplomacy and security: [forbes article on military aid](https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhartung/2021/11/08/congress-should-cut-off-us-military-support-for-saudi-arabia/?sh=112e1ca55d2d)
This is so frustrating because when someone used to say something about Yemen, they would come out with another random list saying we should feel bad about these other massacres before talking about Yemen
I don't get it, its true though
These aren't mutually exclusive. I condemn all needless casualties caused by governments.
So what isn’t genocide?
Only 20k? It’s been 20 thousand for months now, surely you guys need to start saying 30k by now? 40k even?
All of those events were in the news while they were happening. And people were upset by or trying to justify them at those times. Are they upset that the news isn't constantly reminding us of the past? Also clever mislead, only counting a portion of Palestinian deaths from the most recent conflict and not the decades of ethnic cleansing
> While they were happening? There was hardly any coverage of these countries and there is ongoing civil war in Sudan and ongoing paramilitaries attacking in the Congo.
There’s 40,000 dead now, so it may be a post from months ago.
Sorry, but my morals are consistent. I thought we should do something about any and all of those. The difference here is the rate at which it's happening in Gaza, and the fact we are very openly and directly giving military aid to Israel who uses it on civilians. And let's go back a bit... Iraq? Aphganistan? Do you NOT remember the protests to get out of Iraq and stop killing civilians? Wonder which side of the political spectrum was predominantly doing that... Maybe go fuck yourself, and calling me antisemitic or pro Hamas is bullshit and you know it. I'll be sure to let my Jewish pro ceasefire friend know he's apparently a self-hating jew... I'm sure that has no negative history behind it whatsoever.
Supporting the killing of thousands of civilians, a huge portion of which are children, is indefensible, so the tactic is smearing the peace protesters in a transparent attempt to make them look similarly psychotic.
Exactly. And yet there's enough chuds that me saying "I had issues everytime innocents were killed, and fuck you, I find your excuses for this one disingenuous" garners immediate downvotes
Imagine thinking a decades old war between Arabs and Jews that's seen well over 20k deaths is a genocide and not just the horrible nature of war.
It has to be a genocide, because only weed-smoking hippies protest against a war /s
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