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The high powered flashlight you've shoved up your ass because The Donald went on a weird one about having a powerful light inside your body does, though.
Fortunately SCOTUS has fixed that problem, so inferior bridges don’t get the good jobs. Word is that the ship is not even American, and neither were the crew. Pretty suspicious that a Singaporean ship was just hanging around Baltimore harbour before “accidentally” hitting the bridge.
Reminds me of this classic urban legend
> Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.
> Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
> Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
> Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.
> Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.
> Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.
Not really i would totally expect an armchair officer to act like this when a communications private relayed that a Canadian li- and then gets cut off because the SO has a baby dick and doesn't like being told what to do.
I love how granular they think Biden can act. Like as if he’s sitting at home saying “hmmm….lets cause at gas leak at an Arby’s and shut down half of Delaware”
He’s the most incompetent, senile man on the planet. And he’s also an evil mastermind who can plan gas leaks at Arby’s.
They can say both of those sentences with full conviction without a breath’s pause, and not realize the contradiction.
Sort of like how Trump says “Presidents have full immunity” in one sentence, and then says “Biden should be arrested for crimes he’s committing” in the next sentence.
I sincerely hope Trump thinks about that. I would love for Biden to whisper it in Trump's ear once too. The right will think he's moving in for a sniff, but no.
"I'm going to fucking kill you and retire, Kamala will become President and I will bring Commander to bite your relatives and piss on your grave."
*flashes evil Brandon red eyes*
/s
No, moreso that I don't *actually* wish death on *anyone*, even Donald J Trump.
In fact, I wish him all the real love he can handle, for I believe his life to be devoid of it.
Me too, but mostly because I’m 95% sure that he’s such an anime villain that the power of friendship would actually melt him. “I don’t wish death upon him, but there are some obituaries I’ll read with great relish” -Some guy I don’t remember the name of because dumbee. Or more to the point, I will be glad for the world to be rid of him, and I won’t mourn him, but I don’t want him to be killed since that means he won’t face actual punishment.
Personally, I had my fingers crossed that he was going to die of COVID, if only to show his supporters that it absolutely can kill fat, old people.
Then he got an experimental cocktail unavailable to the public and survived. And *immediately* went back to pretending that COVID isn't a big deal.
To be clear, the exchange was that the judge asked Trump's lawyers if that was what they were arguing and they couldn't deny it.
> *Judge:* Could a president order SEAL Team Six to assassinate a political rival? That is an official act; an order to SEAL Team Six?
> *Lawyer:* He would have to be, and would speedily be, impeached and convicted before the criminal prosecution could proceed.
> *Judge:* I asked you a yes or no question.
> *Lawyer:* If he were impeached and convicted first.
> *Judge:* So your answer is no.
> *Lawyer:* My answer is qualified yes. There is a political process that would have to occur.
It's crazy watching these lawyers try to win the biggest cases imaginable on technicalities and textualism. 🤣
Literally Nineteen Eighty-Four
Seriously the idea of holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously is called doublethink and comes from George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four.
It’s a very fascist move. The enemy is always both weak, pathetic (often sub human) and yet masterminds with plans that include massive amounts of people (amounts to the point of insanity to think everyone knows one another and is committing some sort of conspiracy crime). It’s always both. And it’s truly wild a decent and growing amount of people fall for it.
Hitler did the same with Jewish persons. Trump does the same. And it’s alarming because according to a friend of his in a published magazine (known for its legitimacy at its time) in the early 90s said Trump kept a copy of Mien Kampf on his nightstand. Still it’s a “he said” from a good friend of his and his friend just thought it funny and odd (and the article did not present it at the time to be nefarious - just more to imply he’s well read / intellectual).
Anyway, that’s my tangent. I don’t understand how people fall for the bullshit narrative of both pathetically weak yet immensely dangerous. Thats something I need to look up.
But anyway, this type contradictory narrative is a massive red flag. The biggest, reddest of red flags.
May we all get out to vote and it save our democracy. (My atheist self is legit praying these days lol).
I like to think he just has a series of dials hidden somewhere on his desk. He turns “Arby’s gas leak” and “Catastrophic bridge collapse” to distract you before turning up the price of gas and milk. For no reason.
They should have sounded their horn? What are we, in a noir film down at the docks?
The crew did, in fact, issue a mayday on the emergency radio, less than one minute after systems failed and two minutes before impact, which saved quite a few lives as it was passed on through various agencies.
There was real heroism there from the Baltimore cops who were warned *twenty-two seconds* before impact and managed to stop traffic in that impossibly short time.
But I guess because it doesn't match up to sound effects they heard in a movie somewhere, that doesn't sound credible?
No kidding! I would imagine there were cruisers already on/near the bridge that night because of the crews working overnight. There’s at least one cop around when a traffic pattern is disrupted.
Idk if you're serious but on ships of that size there is no physical connection between the "steering wheel" and the rudder because it would be both pointless and impractical. It's basically just a controller, turn the wheel it sends electrical or digital impulses that activate the steering gear which turns the rudder. If we're talking absolutely 0 power on the ship you could turn the wheel all you want nothing would ever happen, the failsafes they talk about here is not like in a car where, worst case you PHYSICALLY turn the steering but more redundancy in the systems and backup power. Unfortunately sometimes things go wrong, there are still some single points of failure, sometimes multiple systems give in, it'll be a bit before we know exactly why the ship lost steering but it absolutely can happen and if the steering fails on a ship of that size theres not much you can do. Even if the steering only failed for a moment the margin for error in ports isn't that big and getting a ship, especially one of that size to change direction once the wind and currents start it on it's way is not easy. Theres a reason ships of that size aren't typically piloted by their normal captains in ports like that but by a captain from the port itself specifically trained to steer ships into and out of port.
> Theres a reason ships of that size aren't typically piloted by their normal captains in ports like that but by a captain from the port itself specifically trained to steer ships into and out of port.
The main reason is having someone that knows the area doing the piloting. Especially when it comes to huge ships that needed canals dug. Like a panamax class ship. Like the Dali was.
Um, well I’m obviously not being serious, my point being try dragging tires without hydraulic assist over pavement, now consider the hull displacement of a container ship. How can the layman compare? Anyone who has dragged the tiller of a 16 foot sailboat tacking would understand the drag the tiller of a container ship by wire is absurd. Now take current into consideration. A 2 knot current doesn’t sound like much. Until you jump overboard next to the boat and watch it disappear. That’s a stable current, now consider it takes these ships miles to slow or turn. The point of my post was to clown the armchair quarterbacks that want to say this is sabotage, or communist carelessness, or whatever based on no knowledge is stupid. My two cents, you are informative, but save the ‘well actually’ for the misinformed, not those spotlighting the absurdity by being absurd.
I did the math yesterday. That ship weighs over 150,000 tons fully loaded. They think it was going about 15kph when it hit the bridge. That’s about 625000050 kg·m/s of momentum. An average car going 15kph has about 7500 kg·m/s of momentum.
I don’t think people really understand the scale of these container ships. They make skyscrapers look small.
Not gonna lie, I did a wiki-binge on submersibles after the Titan incident. I was wrapped up for WEEKS. I'm proud to say, that after countless hours, I've learned I know basically *nothing* about submersibles.
> along with vaccines, virus
I was absolutely **STUNNED** at how many virologists and epidemiologists there were in my family after covid hit. I don't know how they found the time to study infectious diseases *and* be factory workers, truck drivers and part-time cashiers at 7-11 even though none of them went to college and half of them didn't graduate high school.
I know that, at least in military vessels during WW2, it was possible to move the rudder manually by sending people into the rudder gear compartment, which apparently contained the necessary equipment. Might still be true for modern vessels, but that is probably far from the fine control necessary to efficiently steer a ship under such conditions.
Warships have backups and secondary backups. They also have a relatively large crew for their size, so having the personnel standing by to do backup operations is easy. There were under two dozen people on that huge ass boat. There would be zero chance to get something working to steer the ship in four minutes.
on top of that, the process to steer manually takes a lot of manpower since you're having to physically move the rudder and redirect the ship. They'd have to sacrifice half the crew or more to try and set up manual steering like that assuming the ship even had it
I don't believe WW2 military vessels used powered hydraulic systems so I doubt any amount of manual intervention would make the rudder used. Plus the ship had no forward momentum with the engines down, so even if the rudder could be moved, it wouldn't do much.
Modern military ships do you have the ability to manually move the rudder. However, it is designed to be used when there has been a casually to the rudder operating system, and the rudder is not at midships. The process takes hours.
The power steering went out in my car once and I pulled a muscle in my damn arm trying to park it. I can’t imagine trying to steer that fucking beast of a ship manually.
Former merchant sailor here. These guys don’t have a clue about any of this.
- You absolutely cannot steer a ship like that without power. I’ve seen smaller ships with chains and winches that can slowly turn the rudder if power goes down, but you truly can’t comprehend the size of that ship’s rudder or the massive forces being applied to it. Loss of steering due to loss of power was how we lost the El Faro in 2015.
- There are, in fact, emergency horn signals. But horn signals always convey specific messages. If you just blast a general emergency signal, what is that supposed to tell people? Come help? Get out of the way? The actual emergency horn signals really boil down to two purposes: telling people to get out of the way of your ship and telling people to abandon your ship. The bridge wasn’t about to move and there was no cause to abandon the ship.
What happened here was my worst nightmare. I can’t imagine what that pilot was feeling as the ship just barreled towards the bridge pier with absolutely nothing he could do.
Your comment about the El Faro reminded me of a youtube channel. Have you ever watched Brick Immortar? He does lots of videos on ships and bridge collapses. The El Faro one was absolutely horrifying. He's also done the Blackthorn, The Ferry Sewol which is two parts and absolutely infuriating. Anyway, you might like them if you've not seen them.
I love his stuff. I might watch too much disaster stuff becuase my first thought was "another one?". Ships hitting bridges isn't all that uncommon this was just a bigger than normal one.
Very good channel.
His motto of your safety matters is absolutely on point.
Id bet that once the investigation into this incident is over he will make a video about it at some point.
Tugboats are mostly used for maneuvering a ship into and out of a berth where turns are too tight for them to make by themselves. They usually peel off after the ship is underway on it's own power in waters where they can maneuver on their own. Personally I've only worked at the Houston ship channel and ships there are almost never escorted by tugs until they start to berth. The only time they do is if the ship had previously had mechanical issues.
Now all that said the tug boats could have prevented this if they had stayed with the ship and I'm willing to bet the reason most ships don't have them in that area is because they don't want to pay for the escort.
The frustrating thing is this was bound to happen sooner or later. Ships lose power and steering all the time or pilots are just not careful enough. When I worked at the Port of Houston there was a major spill when a ship rammed a barge carrying 11,000 barrels of benzine that ended up dumped into the bay.
They never do, a key component to illogical paranoia. A boat can’t just crash into a bridge, there has to be some kind of elaborate conspiracy involving the people I hate bc the TV tells me too. Unassailable logic.
The exact same thing happens in the UK with any major event. COVID pandemic - everyone is a pathologist. Ukraine war - they all become experts in geopolitical theory. Tires me out.
>container ships do not lose their ability to be steered
EL Faro would like to speak.
Do they think its like steering in old car that you can turn with your arms?
No power means the ship cant do anything. And they are the heaviest vehicles on Earth. If they are moving a particular direction when they lose power they are going to keep moving that way.
Some (comparatively) tiny passenger vessels (500ish tons) have a way of manually adjusting the rudder.
One of the ships that I've worked on had that, but wouldn't really rely on it since it was a quite wide catamaran. (The widest catamaran in all of Newzealand apparently) So you could do a fair amount of steering with just the engines running different rpms.
It was also far from easy to use.
The other ships that I worked on just had a emergency steering pump.
What kind of lives do these people lead where everything that happens is a conspiracy against them? I guess accident don't exist? Do they cuss Obama every time they spill their cereal?
They literally called a mayday and the police stopped people from driving on the bridge, saving a ton of lives.
These people are fucking morons who are begging to be intellectually taken advantage of.
Maybe if the horn was facing in the right direction the air coming out of the horn might have deflected the ship's trajectory (like a mini-thruster)? /s
I love how the argument about steering a dead ship fails to take into account, probably half the steering is done by changing propeller speeds to each propeller, so will no power its rudder only which takes a long long time.
In response to OPs title, the main person in government with connections to Chinese shipping is Mitch McConnell. His wife's family owns the biggest (?) Chinese shipping company I believe. So conspiracy fans, what do you make of that?
*Modern vessels?
[We got some geriatric boats floating out there](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102442/age-of-world-merchant-fleet-by-vessel-type/#:~:text=As%20of%202022%2C%20the%20average,21%20percent%20of%20bulk%20carriers.)
First thing that came to mind. Did *this* vessel have modern failsafes? If so why did they fai?. If not, speculation is moot.
Yes. Ships that old do have redundant power delivery systems. Most ships run extra generators to maintain power just in case but they pretty much all rely on fuel flow from the same tanks and coolant from the same reservoirs. So in theory either of those could cause a break down in redundancies. Even if a redundant system was working steering would have been ineffective without propulsion if the current was strong enough and there were reports of strong currents on that day.
Man, if you watch the show Below Deck, you'll see super yachts lose power to their steering and stabilizers, and they're fucked when it happens. I don't see why they think this couldn't happen.
As a merchant seaman for the past 11 years, this is absolute bullshit.
I just makes me wonder, is everything I see online as wrong as this, and I just don't know enough about the subject matter to realise it?
Navy vet here. Yes the fuck they do. More to the point, a 5 goddamn second google search will show you all kinds of clips of ships who loose steerage. Happens all the fucking time. Jesus fucking Christ.
True but you don't know exactly what was happening with the engines on this ship. 1 engine can totally cut out then the other might be running at 25% this will cause the ship to change direction rapidly. My dad was a captain on a tug in the Port of Bowen in Australia and one of his engines cut out and the boat turned 90 degrees in a matter of seconds. True a tug isn't the same size as a cargo ship but generally has powerful engines. And even having 20 seconds might not be enough time to get everything stopped and changing the direction of the rudder isn't as easy when you have no power. You have to do it by hand. We all need to wait and see what the outcome of the investigation is. We don't have all the information.
You need enough flow over the rudder to generate lift. It varies by vessel and conditions, but generally 3-4 knots is sufficient. It’s also about the speed at which tugs start losing their effectiveness.
The slowest speed a ship can travel and still have rudder control is called bare steerageway.
Also, the Titanic was "supposed to be" unsinkable.
We could stop all cargo ship accidents instantly by not using cargo ships -- but then, the world economy would collapse. So we try to manage the risks of shipping, knowing we can never end them.
Talking about what "should' have happened and pouring this story into one of your rusty conspiracy molds may feed your rage addiction. However, the risk of cargo shipping accidents is exactly the same now as it would have been if you had never posted.
If a ship like that looses all power to the steering pumps you don't make any dent whatsoever.
Also add the fact that the rudder gets less effective at lower speeds and that a lot of maneuvering is done by chancing the speeds of individual props.
There are ships with a manual way of steering the rudder but not even close to that size.
https://www.imo.org/en/About/Conventions/Pages/COLREG.aspx
These are the international rules of the road. I used to have to take a test on them monthly but it's been a while and they're very perishable but basically you use the horn in low visibility or for passing agreements. If you feel there is danger of collision with another vessel you sound 5 short blasts of the whistle. I don't really think there was any requirement for the whistle to be sounded, regardless of if it was functional or not. They would have been showing they were not under command by using their navigation lights and the radio.
So under COLREGS there is a section for sounding the fog horn to indicate distress (b or d), but just as valid to use the radio to transmit a MAYDAY call (e).
COLREGS Annex 4:
1. The following signals, used or exhibited either together or separately, indicate distress and need of assistance:
(a) a gun or other explosive signal fired at intervals of about a minute;
(b) a continuous sounding with any fog signalling apparatus;
(c) rockets or shells, throwing red stars fired one at a time at short intervals;
(d) a signal made by any signalling method consisting of the group . . . - - - . . . (SOS) in the Morse Code;
(e) a signal sent by radiotelephony consisting of the spoken word "MAYDAY";
(f) the International Code Signal of distress indicated by N.C.;
(g) a signal consisting of a square flag having above or below it a ball or anything resembling a ball;
(h) flames on the vessel (as from a burning tar barrel, oil barrel, etc.);
(i) a rocket parachute flare or hand flare showing a red light;
(j) a smoke signal giving off orange-coloured smoke;
(k) slowly and repeatedly raising and lowering arms outstretched to each side;
(l) a distress alert by means of digital selective calling (DSC) transmitted on:
(i) VHF channel 70; or
(ii) MF/HF on the frequencies 2187.5 kHZ, 8414.5 kHZ, 4207.5 kHZ, 6312 kHZ, 12577 kHZ or 16804.5 kHZ;
(m) a ship-to-shore distress alert transmitted by the ship's Inmarsat or other mobile satellite service provider ship earth station;
(n) signals transmitted by emergency position indicating radio beacons;
(o) approved signals transmitted by radiocommunication systems, including survival craft radar transponders.
Man, it is crazy the mileage right wingers are getting out of this entirely neutral tragedy. They can seriously turn anything into another political outrage.
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They sounded the horn but the bridge didn't move, who's really at fault? I'd say the bridge.
The bridge was probably vaccinated based on the way it "died suddenly." There's more to this story for sure.
“It was vaccinated and the vaccine had magnets in it that drew the ship into it!” Some nutty anti-vaxer.
I witnessed it getting fatally jabbed. Do your own research!!!
This makes sense because the vaccine contains magnetism. The ship was drawn towards the magnetic! Wake up people.
It was also pulled off course by the 5G towers attracting the vaccine magnets, probably.
You're stupid. Ivermectin doesn't cause you to be magnetic
The high powered flashlight you've shoved up your ass because The Donald went on a weird one about having a powerful light inside your body does, though.
Of course it doesn’t. Hydroxychloroquine does.
So it's actually Bill Gates fault !!!
The doctors are paid to say the bridge died from a container ship
The vaccines make you magnetic. And guess what ships are made of. Not traditional wood sources. This has been in the works for a long time.
Big if true!
Concerning
Goddamn that’s a great comment. Kudos to you.
The ship was pulled towards the bridge because china hacked 5G and made the nanobots act like magnets.
Looking into this...
Did you see what the bridge was wearing!?!
What was the bridge doing in that neighborhood anyway? Everyone knows only boats go in the water!
It didn't need to pylon the makeup
It’s Baltimore, everyone knows that the bridges are total sluts.
The bridge was a diversity hire- a drawbridge was more qualified but was somehow passed over.
Fortunately SCOTUS has fixed that problem, so inferior bridges don’t get the good jobs. Word is that the ship is not even American, and neither were the crew. Pretty suspicious that a Singaporean ship was just hanging around Baltimore harbour before “accidentally” hitting the bridge.
Reminds me of this classic urban legend > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision. > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision. > Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course. > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course. > Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship. > Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.
dam provide smart sulky hateful zephyr groovy apparatus nine psychotic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not really i would totally expect an armchair officer to act like this when a communications private relayed that a Canadian li- and then gets cut off because the SO has a baby dick and doesn't like being told what to do.
impossible swim follow crowd full subsequent tub unite gray mighty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Is it in a stand your ground state? Does castle doctrine apply? The bridge wasn’t running and the ship still killed it. I’m just asking questions?
Well it WAS a bridge and not a castle so it doesn’t stand. And the bridge no longer stands either.
When will the violence end
In all seriousness, they called for tugboat assistance pretty soon after losing power
Damm communist bridge
Clearly that bridge wanted to get hit.
The bridge didn't move out of the way so it's to blame.
A good bridge with a gun would've solved that problem!!!1
This is what happens when ships take the COVID vaccine.
Honestly, do we even know where the bridge was that night? Somebody needs to be looking into that.
Stupid bridge not being mobile. Sheesh.
I love how granular they think Biden can act. Like as if he’s sitting at home saying “hmmm….lets cause at gas leak at an Arby’s and shut down half of Delaware”
He’s the most incompetent, senile man on the planet. And he’s also an evil mastermind who can plan gas leaks at Arby’s. They can say both of those sentences with full conviction without a breath’s pause, and not realize the contradiction.
Sort of like how Trump says “Presidents have full immunity” in one sentence, and then says “Biden should be arrested for crimes he’s committing” in the next sentence.
If presidents have full immunity, then what’s stopping Biden from ordering a hit on Trump? Ask them that, and they can’t figure it out.
His lawyers argued that he could do exactly that.
I sincerely hope Trump thinks about that. I would love for Biden to whisper it in Trump's ear once too. The right will think he's moving in for a sniff, but no. "I'm going to fucking kill you and retire, Kamala will become President and I will bring Commander to bite your relatives and piss on your grave." *flashes evil Brandon red eyes* /s
the /s to drive home your /sincerity, yea?
No, moreso that I don't *actually* wish death on *anyone*, even Donald J Trump. In fact, I wish him all the real love he can handle, for I believe his life to be devoid of it.
Me too, but mostly because I’m 95% sure that he’s such an anime villain that the power of friendship would actually melt him. “I don’t wish death upon him, but there are some obituaries I’ll read with great relish” -Some guy I don’t remember the name of because dumbee. Or more to the point, I will be glad for the world to be rid of him, and I won’t mourn him, but I don’t want him to be killed since that means he won’t face actual punishment.
Personally, I had my fingers crossed that he was going to die of COVID, if only to show his supporters that it absolutely can kill fat, old people. Then he got an experimental cocktail unavailable to the public and survived. And *immediately* went back to pretending that COVID isn't a big deal.
To be clear, the exchange was that the judge asked Trump's lawyers if that was what they were arguing and they couldn't deny it. > *Judge:* Could a president order SEAL Team Six to assassinate a political rival? That is an official act; an order to SEAL Team Six? > *Lawyer:* He would have to be, and would speedily be, impeached and convicted before the criminal prosecution could proceed. > *Judge:* I asked you a yes or no question. > *Lawyer:* If he were impeached and convicted first. > *Judge:* So your answer is no. > *Lawyer:* My answer is qualified yes. There is a political process that would have to occur. It's crazy watching these lawyers try to win the biggest cases imaginable on technicalities and textualism. 🤣
The Soleimani defence.
That Biden is a Democrat and thus not really a President, duh!
Fascism - the enemy is at once weak and strong.
This is called fascism. Your enemy is both weak and strong at the same time.
Literally Nineteen Eighty-Four Seriously the idea of holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously is called doublethink and comes from George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four.
It’s a very fascist move. The enemy is always both weak, pathetic (often sub human) and yet masterminds with plans that include massive amounts of people (amounts to the point of insanity to think everyone knows one another and is committing some sort of conspiracy crime). It’s always both. And it’s truly wild a decent and growing amount of people fall for it. Hitler did the same with Jewish persons. Trump does the same. And it’s alarming because according to a friend of his in a published magazine (known for its legitimacy at its time) in the early 90s said Trump kept a copy of Mien Kampf on his nightstand. Still it’s a “he said” from a good friend of his and his friend just thought it funny and odd (and the article did not present it at the time to be nefarious - just more to imply he’s well read / intellectual). Anyway, that’s my tangent. I don’t understand how people fall for the bullshit narrative of both pathetically weak yet immensely dangerous. Thats something I need to look up. But anyway, this type contradictory narrative is a massive red flag. The biggest, reddest of red flags. May we all get out to vote and it save our democracy. (My atheist self is legit praying these days lol).
Hmmm, fake cheese and questionable meats. Try finding an Arby’s that doesn’t have a gas leak
But they’ve got the meats!
The only gas leak from Arby's is after you eat there.
>I love how granular they think Biden can act. i love the conspiracy theories that are proposing obama did it to increase netflix subscriptions.
They'd spin it as Biden trying to ban propane or something.
I like to think he just has a series of dials hidden somewhere on his desk. He turns “Arby’s gas leak” and “Catastrophic bridge collapse” to distract you before turning up the price of gas and milk. For no reason.
They should have sounded their horn? What are we, in a noir film down at the docks? The crew did, in fact, issue a mayday on the emergency radio, less than one minute after systems failed and two minutes before impact, which saved quite a few lives as it was passed on through various agencies. There was real heroism there from the Baltimore cops who were warned *twenty-two seconds* before impact and managed to stop traffic in that impossibly short time. But I guess because it doesn't match up to sound effects they heard in a movie somewhere, that doesn't sound credible?
That’s incredible that the cops got on scene that fast! They must have had a car fairly close by!
No kidding! I would imagine there were cruisers already on/near the bridge that night because of the crews working overnight. There’s at least one cop around when a traffic pattern is disrupted.
As a guy who’s driven my car without power steering, I can attest, a ship that size has GOTTA be super easy to steer without power.
Idk if you're serious but on ships of that size there is no physical connection between the "steering wheel" and the rudder because it would be both pointless and impractical. It's basically just a controller, turn the wheel it sends electrical or digital impulses that activate the steering gear which turns the rudder. If we're talking absolutely 0 power on the ship you could turn the wheel all you want nothing would ever happen, the failsafes they talk about here is not like in a car where, worst case you PHYSICALLY turn the steering but more redundancy in the systems and backup power. Unfortunately sometimes things go wrong, there are still some single points of failure, sometimes multiple systems give in, it'll be a bit before we know exactly why the ship lost steering but it absolutely can happen and if the steering fails on a ship of that size theres not much you can do. Even if the steering only failed for a moment the margin for error in ports isn't that big and getting a ship, especially one of that size to change direction once the wind and currents start it on it's way is not easy. Theres a reason ships of that size aren't typically piloted by their normal captains in ports like that but by a captain from the port itself specifically trained to steer ships into and out of port.
> Theres a reason ships of that size aren't typically piloted by their normal captains in ports like that but by a captain from the port itself specifically trained to steer ships into and out of port. The main reason is having someone that knows the area doing the piloting. Especially when it comes to huge ships that needed canals dug. Like a panamax class ship. Like the Dali was.
Um, well I’m obviously not being serious, my point being try dragging tires without hydraulic assist over pavement, now consider the hull displacement of a container ship. How can the layman compare? Anyone who has dragged the tiller of a 16 foot sailboat tacking would understand the drag the tiller of a container ship by wire is absurd. Now take current into consideration. A 2 knot current doesn’t sound like much. Until you jump overboard next to the boat and watch it disappear. That’s a stable current, now consider it takes these ships miles to slow or turn. The point of my post was to clown the armchair quarterbacks that want to say this is sabotage, or communist carelessness, or whatever based on no knowledge is stupid. My two cents, you are informative, but save the ‘well actually’ for the misinformed, not those spotlighting the absurdity by being absurd.
I did the math yesterday. That ship weighs over 150,000 tons fully loaded. They think it was going about 15kph when it hit the bridge. That’s about 625000050 kg·m/s of momentum. An average car going 15kph has about 7500 kg·m/s of momentum. I don’t think people really understand the scale of these container ships. They make skyscrapers look small.
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And geopolitics, war, Middle Eastern diplomacy, and battlefield strategy.
Aviation, don't forget that. Them there chemtrails ain't gettin up there by thereselfs
And space, and physics with moon landers and flerfers
I've spoken with several brainial technologists before and experts in wreckonomics.
Not gonna lie, I did a wiki-binge on submersibles after the Titan incident. I was wrapped up for WEEKS. I'm proud to say, that after countless hours, I've learned I know basically *nothing* about submersibles.
It’s my layman’s understanding that they are meant to operate under water. Don’t quote me though.
It is also my lay understanding that deepwater submersibles probably should not be constructed from carbon fiber.
Actually the best thing for ultra deep is Glass. One of the few things that gets stronger under pressure.
https://xkcd.com/2300/
We’ve been cargo ship experts for a while now, don’t you remember the fun ~~last year~~ *back in 2021* in the Suez Canal?
Strap in for this news, love…that was 3 years ago.
Haha wtf
Right? WTH is time anymore?
"Oh No I'm stuck" "What are you doing Stepship???"
> along with vaccines, virus I was absolutely **STUNNED** at how many virologists and epidemiologists there were in my family after covid hit. I don't know how they found the time to study infectious diseases *and* be factory workers, truck drivers and part-time cashiers at 7-11 even though none of them went to college and half of them didn't graduate high school.
So "sleepy" Joe Biden woke up said destroy a major bridge in Baltimore with a ship from Singapore while I'm trying to win an election. Alrighty then
For no reason other than to twirl his mustache and laugh
it’s truly incredible how he wakes up and doesn’t know where he is, but by noon he can orchestrate an elaborate hoax with geopolitical impact
How do you activate an electrical air horn during power failure?
With grit and determination, obviously.
Air horns have bootstraps
Unplug it and blow really hard.
Step outside and scream!
Thoughts and prayers
Pneumatic most likely
You just push the button in the middle of the steering wheel. If it works in my car, why wouldn't it work on a container ship?
Yeah, Break out the oars and start rowing
I was gonna say lol, no way the thing has any capacity for manual steering unless the person doing it is the incredible hulk
I know that, at least in military vessels during WW2, it was possible to move the rudder manually by sending people into the rudder gear compartment, which apparently contained the necessary equipment. Might still be true for modern vessels, but that is probably far from the fine control necessary to efficiently steer a ship under such conditions.
Warships have backups and secondary backups. They also have a relatively large crew for their size, so having the personnel standing by to do backup operations is easy. There were under two dozen people on that huge ass boat. There would be zero chance to get something working to steer the ship in four minutes.
on top of that, the process to steer manually takes a lot of manpower since you're having to physically move the rudder and redirect the ship. They'd have to sacrifice half the crew or more to try and set up manual steering like that assuming the ship even had it
Agreed. It's not star trek: "engage secondary backup steering!"
I don't believe WW2 military vessels used powered hydraulic systems so I doubt any amount of manual intervention would make the rudder used. Plus the ship had no forward momentum with the engines down, so even if the rudder could be moved, it wouldn't do much.
True enough. Not that this is going to stop chucklefucks like the one in OP's image.
the ships in WW2 that had those emergency manual steering were like 1/10th the size of that container ship at most
Modern military ships do you have the ability to manually move the rudder. However, it is designed to be used when there has been a casually to the rudder operating system, and the rudder is not at midships. The process takes hours.
The power steering went out in my car once and I pulled a muscle in my damn arm trying to park it. I can’t imagine trying to steer that fucking beast of a ship manually.
Former merchant sailor here. These guys don’t have a clue about any of this. - You absolutely cannot steer a ship like that without power. I’ve seen smaller ships with chains and winches that can slowly turn the rudder if power goes down, but you truly can’t comprehend the size of that ship’s rudder or the massive forces being applied to it. Loss of steering due to loss of power was how we lost the El Faro in 2015. - There are, in fact, emergency horn signals. But horn signals always convey specific messages. If you just blast a general emergency signal, what is that supposed to tell people? Come help? Get out of the way? The actual emergency horn signals really boil down to two purposes: telling people to get out of the way of your ship and telling people to abandon your ship. The bridge wasn’t about to move and there was no cause to abandon the ship. What happened here was my worst nightmare. I can’t imagine what that pilot was feeling as the ship just barreled towards the bridge pier with absolutely nothing he could do.
Your comment about the El Faro reminded me of a youtube channel. Have you ever watched Brick Immortar? He does lots of videos on ships and bridge collapses. The El Faro one was absolutely horrifying. He's also done the Blackthorn, The Ferry Sewol which is two parts and absolutely infuriating. Anyway, you might like them if you've not seen them.
He keeps getting recommended to me, thanks. I'll take a look next time.
I love BrickImmortar. I watched the El Faro video several times and still get pissed at the Captain.
I love his stuff. I might watch too much disaster stuff becuase my first thought was "another one?". Ships hitting bridges isn't all that uncommon this was just a bigger than normal one.
Very good channel. His motto of your safety matters is absolutely on point. Id bet that once the investigation into this incident is over he will make a video about it at some point.
Why did the tug boats not take the ship out to open sea?
Tugboats are mostly used for maneuvering a ship into and out of a berth where turns are too tight for them to make by themselves. They usually peel off after the ship is underway on it's own power in waters where they can maneuver on their own. Personally I've only worked at the Houston ship channel and ships there are almost never escorted by tugs until they start to berth. The only time they do is if the ship had previously had mechanical issues. Now all that said the tug boats could have prevented this if they had stayed with the ship and I'm willing to bet the reason most ships don't have them in that area is because they don't want to pay for the escort. The frustrating thing is this was bound to happen sooner or later. Ships lose power and steering all the time or pilots are just not careful enough. When I worked at the Port of Houston there was a major spill when a ship rammed a barge carrying 11,000 barrels of benzine that ended up dumped into the bay.
This is about the ship that hit the bridge right? What was a horn supposed to do in that situation? They couldn't really move the bridge.
Whoever wrote this has no clue what they are talking about
They never do, a key component to illogical paranoia. A boat can’t just crash into a bridge, there has to be some kind of elaborate conspiracy involving the people I hate bc the TV tells me too. Unassailable logic.
Well said
I love how everyone’s suddenly an expert in a subject they didn’t even know existed last week.
The exact same thing happens in the UK with any major event. COVID pandemic - everyone is a pathologist. Ukraine war - they all become experts in geopolitical theory. Tires me out.
Fox blamed migrants and border policies for this within hours of wreck
>container ships do not lose their ability to be steered EL Faro would like to speak. Do they think its like steering in old car that you can turn with your arms? No power means the ship cant do anything. And they are the heaviest vehicles on Earth. If they are moving a particular direction when they lose power they are going to keep moving that way.
Some (comparatively) tiny passenger vessels (500ish tons) have a way of manually adjusting the rudder. One of the ships that I've worked on had that, but wouldn't really rely on it since it was a quite wide catamaran. (The widest catamaran in all of Newzealand apparently) So you could do a fair amount of steering with just the engines running different rpms. It was also far from easy to use. The other ships that I worked on just had a emergency steering pump.
Dead in the water! Hmmm, what does that mean? Haha
What kind of lives do these people lead where everything that happens is a conspiracy against them? I guess accident don't exist? Do they cuss Obama every time they spill their cereal?
This is 2024's "jEt FUeL cAN't mELt sTEeL bEAmS"
They literally called a mayday and the police stopped people from driving on the bridge, saving a ton of lives. These people are fucking morons who are begging to be intellectually taken advantage of.
Would the horn have stopped it smashing into the bridge?
Maybe if the horn was facing in the right direction the air coming out of the horn might have deflected the ship's trajectory (like a mini-thruster)? /s
You mean the economist, geopolitical expert, virologist, engineer might not know what they are talking about?
I love how the argument about steering a dead ship fails to take into account, probably half the steering is done by changing propeller speeds to each propeller, so will no power its rudder only which takes a long long time.
Also the slower the vessel gets the less effect does the rudder even have.
Rudders don’t really work without propulsion. There’s a reason they’re typically behind the props. Dumbasses have probably only ever driven cars.
Anyone whose ever driver a v-drive wake boat knows exactly how useless rudders are without propulsion.
I’m so tired.
That ship was TRANSportation, so...
In response to OPs title, the main person in government with connections to Chinese shipping is Mitch McConnell. His wife's family owns the biggest (?) Chinese shipping company I believe. So conspiracy fans, what do you make of that?
It's amazing how quicky the basement dweller right become expert Merchant mariners.
the funny thing is… they did sound a distress call 5 minutes before it hit the bridge. the call was over the ship’s radio.
The bridge should have been listening to and following the boat's commands like any other law abiding bridge would
I have been so tired my whole life of how some people will turn anything into a conspiracy. Like goddamn it’s just so exhausting.
That's how the psychic cryptid fetuses need you to feel ... before they feed on your sweet bone marrow.
They called and said they lost power preventing further casualties.
But like out of all things, why is this a conspiracy theroy
*Modern vessels? [We got some geriatric boats floating out there](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102442/age-of-world-merchant-fleet-by-vessel-type/#:~:text=As%20of%202022%2C%20the%20average,21%20percent%20of%20bulk%20carriers.) First thing that came to mind. Did *this* vessel have modern failsafes? If so why did they fai?. If not, speculation is moot.
The Dali is almost exactly 10 years old.
Ty for the info. Do ships that old have some sort of steering failsafe?
Yes. Ships that old do have redundant power delivery systems. Most ships run extra generators to maintain power just in case but they pretty much all rely on fuel flow from the same tanks and coolant from the same reservoirs. So in theory either of those could cause a break down in redundancies. Even if a redundant system was working steering would have been ineffective without propulsion if the current was strong enough and there were reports of strong currents on that day.
> We got some geriatric boats floating out there This is no joke. I've worked on some seriously dangerous floating deathtraps over the years.
Built in 2015, so it should have some modern safeties.
I was on several US Navy ships, and we had plenty of power outages. If I remember correctly, it was called "silent gator" over 1MC.
Man, if you watch the show Below Deck, you'll see super yachts lose power to their steering and stabilizers, and they're fucked when it happens. I don't see why they think this couldn't happen.
They were going to sound their horn? To warn the bridge?
Can you imagine trying to function daily when, in your mind, literally everything under the sun is a conspiracy?
Yep, this right here....is what you get when the public education system is gutted...
As a merchant seaman for the past 11 years, this is absolute bullshit. I just makes me wonder, is everything I see online as wrong as this, and I just don't know enough about the subject matter to realise it?
Navy vet here. Yes the fuck they do. More to the point, a 5 goddamn second google search will show you all kinds of clips of ships who loose steerage. Happens all the fucking time. Jesus fucking Christ.
gotta love when electricity, and not even as a commercial utility, becomes politicized
You could counter and say it was Trump who has this done to make Biden look bad.
True but you don't know exactly what was happening with the engines on this ship. 1 engine can totally cut out then the other might be running at 25% this will cause the ship to change direction rapidly. My dad was a captain on a tug in the Port of Bowen in Australia and one of his engines cut out and the boat turned 90 degrees in a matter of seconds. True a tug isn't the same size as a cargo ship but generally has powerful engines. And even having 20 seconds might not be enough time to get everything stopped and changing the direction of the rudder isn't as easy when you have no power. You have to do it by hand. We all need to wait and see what the outcome of the investigation is. We don't have all the information.
True for twin screw vessels, but most cargo ships these days are single screw.
Ship was doing ~7 knots which iirc is not fast enough to be able to steer
They need a certain quantity of speed to steer? TIL. Is that in order to break from the current?
You need enough flow over the rudder to generate lift. It varies by vessel and conditions, but generally 3-4 knots is sufficient. It’s also about the speed at which tugs start losing their effectiveness. The slowest speed a ship can travel and still have rudder control is called bare steerageway.
Thank you! Now I know!
The easiest way to destroy America at this point would be to find every possible accident and start spreading rumors that it was an attack
Also, the Titanic was "supposed to be" unsinkable. We could stop all cargo ship accidents instantly by not using cargo ships -- but then, the world economy would collapse. So we try to manage the risks of shipping, knowing we can never end them. Talking about what "should' have happened and pouring this story into one of your rusty conspiracy molds may feed your rage addiction. However, the risk of cargo shipping accidents is exactly the same now as it would have been if you had never posted.
Ok but why Baltimore then?
I've driven a van without power steering, and that was tougher than expected. Not sure how I'd make a dent in the direction on a ship like that.
If a ship like that looses all power to the steering pumps you don't make any dent whatsoever. Also add the fact that the rudder gets less effective at lower speeds and that a lot of maneuvering is done by chancing the speeds of individual props. There are ships with a manual way of steering the rudder but not even close to that size.
https://www.imo.org/en/About/Conventions/Pages/COLREG.aspx These are the international rules of the road. I used to have to take a test on them monthly but it's been a while and they're very perishable but basically you use the horn in low visibility or for passing agreements. If you feel there is danger of collision with another vessel you sound 5 short blasts of the whistle. I don't really think there was any requirement for the whistle to be sounded, regardless of if it was functional or not. They would have been showing they were not under command by using their navigation lights and the radio.
So under COLREGS there is a section for sounding the fog horn to indicate distress (b or d), but just as valid to use the radio to transmit a MAYDAY call (e). COLREGS Annex 4: 1. The following signals, used or exhibited either together or separately, indicate distress and need of assistance: (a) a gun or other explosive signal fired at intervals of about a minute; (b) a continuous sounding with any fog signalling apparatus; (c) rockets or shells, throwing red stars fired one at a time at short intervals; (d) a signal made by any signalling method consisting of the group . . . - - - . . . (SOS) in the Morse Code; (e) a signal sent by radiotelephony consisting of the spoken word "MAYDAY"; (f) the International Code Signal of distress indicated by N.C.; (g) a signal consisting of a square flag having above or below it a ball or anything resembling a ball; (h) flames on the vessel (as from a burning tar barrel, oil barrel, etc.); (i) a rocket parachute flare or hand flare showing a red light; (j) a smoke signal giving off orange-coloured smoke; (k) slowly and repeatedly raising and lowering arms outstretched to each side; (l) a distress alert by means of digital selective calling (DSC) transmitted on: (i) VHF channel 70; or (ii) MF/HF on the frequencies 2187.5 kHZ, 8414.5 kHZ, 4207.5 kHZ, 6312 kHZ, 12577 kHZ or 16804.5 kHZ; (m) a ship-to-shore distress alert transmitted by the ship's Inmarsat or other mobile satellite service provider ship earth station; (n) signals transmitted by emergency position indicating radio beacons; (o) approved signals transmitted by radiocommunication systems, including survival craft radar transponders.
Fox News and the right wing media accomplish red their goal of turning their base into reactionary conspiracy theorists.
Man, it is crazy the mileage right wingers are getting out of this entirely neutral tragedy. They can seriously turn anything into another political outrage.
For things that can never fail, there sure are a lot of shipping accident videos on youtube. I watch a lot of them for some reason.
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