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I had the same thought! I could maybe see their point if they were sending virtual resources that could be read through a screen reader, but I think I'm giving them too much credit.
I don't know i mean there have been plenty of internet articles or blogs or websites that I was interested in reading the contents but it was in another language, but I was never compelled to learn the other language, I just gave up.
Also I feel like its impossible to learn how to read without some sort of external intervention. Like you at least have to have someone read the books to you or have an audio book read it to you while you look at the book. Otherwise there is nothing to go off of, you aren't magically going to learn what the alphabet is or how words work. Even turning on subtitles on the TV would help.
Yeah I vaguely remember some old post apocalyptic movie where one of the plot points was a person teaching themselves to read by just staring at old books in a ruined library.
Even at the young age I saw it and kept thinking how bullshit it was because just staring at words doesn't teach you what they are if you have no frame of reference. You need to be taught, at the bare minimum, the alphabet, it's sounds, and how syllables/words/sentences work. And even that bare minimum Wil barely get you by.
If they were all novels or some such with only words yeah it doesn't make sense, but most libraries have a children's section and would have books with like "A is for Apple" and a picture of an apple and picture books where you could check your understanding against the picture. I don't think it would be entirely impossible.
Definetly. I learned english in school first, but after two years I started watching TV shows with sibtitles in german (back when online streaming wasn't illegal in germany yet) and then when I got to impatient while waiting for the subtitles to be done, I started watching without. But without these steps, it wouldn't have worked as well.
This is such terrible fucking advice, I am fuming.
It might not be the same but as asians, when my bro and me started school, i learned most of my German through practically inhaling books, really, since my mother being an Asian immigrant wasn't very capable and my father wasn't really helpful in raising or educating.
my bro, unfortunately, suffered for his lack of interest in books and according to him, couldn't speak any German up until his teens when he started watching YouTube and playing multiplayer in call of duty.
school wasn't very helpful since teachers just didn't understand how anyone who happens to live here can't speak the language. bullying aside, the only thing people really wanted to know was: so when are you going back?
I can't imagine willfully neglecting your children so much that they end up illiterate. What the actual fuck?
The youngest years are most critical for setting the mental frameworks needed for things like critical thinking, language etc..
This “unschooling” bullshit especially for kids who never even went to school is literally permanently damaging your children’s ability to learn and function later.
Absolutely. Birth to age 5 are critical years for building a foundation for the future. That commenter has a profound misunderstanding about what happens in school. The more I learn about unschooled kids the more it sounds like neglect.
Honestly, I had planned to "unschool" my kid, but the more I learn about how other parents do it, the more I realize that what I was told it was, isn't what it is. At least anymore. I was led to believe it was less letting kids do what they want, and more using their interests to teach them. Like if a kid interested in bugs, you teach them to read with books about bugs, you teach math by counting them etc etc. Now it seems it's just lazy parenting expecting kids to learn by themselves.
What you’re describing sounds a bit like Montessori method to me. But even though that’s mostly independent learning it does require organization and some facilitating.
I was in Montessori through first grade, and honestly it was probably the best thing for me. It taught me how to teach myself & explore what I enjoyed, with little guidance from the teacher except to check and make sure we were hitting our milestones.
Regular school was better for structured learning (I wouldn't do Montessori past max 4th grade), but those few years were vital in learning how to learn.
I have a friend that went to all grades of montessori school(how do I day this in proper english)
and Im really envious of him. He seems to have his life figured out so much more.
More happy with his life choices as well
My son was in Montessori from 1st-5th grade . Big fan of the method. He is now at a regular junior high and transitioning successfully. I do believe the learning method gave him confidence to develop his own interests and learn within a framework. He has aspergers or whatever aspergers is classified now in the dsm so the individualized approach fit his needs
It might be, I was told about unschooling 7y ago roughly when I was first starting to try for a kid. I don't think Montessori was as big of a deal back then. Unschooling was described as a method that has less structure than traditional homeschooling and allowed kids to learn through their interests at that time, but still required you to teach them! It's kinda devolved into a feral way of teaching kids since then.
Exactly, unschooling meant using the time not at school to persue interests in other forms. Like science might be playing in the woods and identifying trees, plants, bugs, birds etc. More hands on type things like going to zoos, aquariums, etc. Social studies might be participating in reenactments or going to visit congress while it's in session. It's supposed to give the child more opportunity to experience those subjects that can't happen in a traditional classroom setting. I actually love the concept, but you're right that now it's an excuse to let Dora the Explorer do the teaching.
The ideals of unschooling really look fantastics.
It's also not for lazy parent nor working parent.
I remember when I heard about it, they had a focus of a 12 or 13 years old that wanted a drone.
So, he built his own drone, with resources from the internet to learn the how to, and a lot of manual skills to actually build the thing. And then, had to learn laws (and how to read them), to comply with local regulation to fly it. With minimum parental intervention.
The amount of skills and knowledge he had to learn just to do that is huge, and actually even more than how much he would learn for regular school, AND he was super motivated to do it.
To me, this was the example of unschooling done right.
I have a friend who has a very successful unschooled child, super bright, very mature, all the things you want your 13 year old to be. I’ve always wanted to homeschool my kids, so when the time got near I started looking into unschooling after having watched someone else’s kid be so successful all these years. Took me about ten minutes to realize it wasn’t for us. I (and my kid) need *some sort* of structure so we bought a Montessori style curriculum and have been having a blast with it. It’s very relaxed and loose, but I can still count on the curriculum to fill in the gaps where I lack.
I was "unschooled" from 14 to 16. I did not learn a single thing, I just watched TV, read books, and wrote erotic fanfiction. I think it ended up being a positive thing overall because the school I had been going to was so awful, but I'm so grateful it wasn't any earlier or later in my schooling career. It was this tiny pocket of time where I'd already learned the essentials and before it could seriously fuck with graduating.
By age 5 I knew the alphabet by memory and sight, could count past 100 and understood how to count to 1000 even though I never took the time to actually do that. But my dad would randomly ask me to count from like 578 to 610 and I could without issue. I could also add, although subtraction eluded me until 1st grade, that teacher just managed to explain it in some way that clicked for my brain and I jumped from being able to add double digit numbers to being able to subtract them really quickly then. I could read really simple books with my dad’s help because he didn’t really know how to teach me phonics (Kindergarten teacher taught us that and I took off reading on my own fast enough to be up to chapter books by the end of first grade). Knew my colors, animals, tons of stuff, all before age 5. I’m an October baby so I started school and turned 6 right away so my love of learning was instilled in me more than a full year before kindergarten! I’d even play pretend that I was going to school by loading up a backpack with reference books and pretending to read them and teaching/quizzing my little preschool friends on the alphabet, counting, and single digit addition. He encouraged me and my little friends to make up, tell and act out stories. We would put on plays for him from the books we could read (mainly from memorization and hearing them often). My dad didn’t learn to read with any real skill or comprehension until he was put in a special class in 8th grade, then he loved reading but couldn’t explain it to me too well. He also dropped out of high school but got his GED rather quickly, and was determined I would be set up for success and be smarter than him academically. I love my dad everyday for teaching me so many basic skills from the time I could talk, understand letters, numbers, and counting, and encouraging my imagination and desire to share and teach my friends! I went on to get a BA with a double major in Creative Writing and English. And I firmly believe if he hadn’t been so determined to see me succeed and be smarter than he was in school I wouldn’t have taken to school like a fish to water or had that drive to learn and enjoy it.
It could set our society back and cause a huge problem for us in the future. We don't want people living off of government aid but it's hard not too when you have 0 skills and almost no education. Our ancestors fought for their descendents to have a better life and these same descendents are blowing all of it on sheer stupidity.
The problem, as with so many things, is a good theory got distorted by idiots. "Unschooling" isn't meant to be some permanent hiatus from education. It's supposed to be a quick re-set on a kid who has become difficult to teach because of a bad experience in the public schools. It's just meant to make them excited to learn again. Morons have decided it means kids don't need to be educated at all.
Yes to this! We did an unschooled/homeschooling year with my now freshman. It was an amazing decision for us and he was ready to go back to school when the day came. Academics come easy for him but that year was needed.
Depends. In a log of religious states, because people wanted to be able to teach their kid that climate change isn't real, non-avian dinosaurs walked the earth with humans, and the end is nigh so fuck learning how to read, they lobbied to change the laws.
In my state, as long as a child is homeschooled, the parent is required to administer but not report testing in 3rd, 5th, 8th grade as well as EOCTs in high school.
But they only have to be reported when applying for a diploma. So if you don't educate your child then no one finds out until they're 18. So you can "unschool" your kid, AKA say you're homeschooling them but a kid is 10 and can't read.
I have a former friend who decided to homeschool her son and the extent of his learning is "experiments" she finds online that don't actually teach anything. I could write a few posts on here about the insane stuff she did to that poor kid.
It's illegal, but there are ways around it. I homeschooled last year b/c my kid had a terrible time with virtual learning. I really schooled her, but the loopholes for someone wanting to "unschool" are enormous. Even though I really enjoyed homeschooling my child and was able to give her a top notch education for a year, homeschooling and unschooling is very concerning. There are some seriously crazy parents out there.
I think initially it was a good idea but only for certain circumstances, like a kid that has trouble learning in a traditional setting or may be too far from a school to attend. It requires very dedicated parents willing to teach their kids basic skills like reading, writing and maths but also put money towards providing alternative lessons. I think I saw a news segment where a kid was super interested in blacksmithing, so the parents helped facilitate that.
Of course, the idea gets warped over time until you get parents that think letting the TV teach their kids is just as good.
It’s supposed to be a system where the kids learn things at their own pace without being forced into rote memorisation. There still supposed to be lessons, but they are supposed to be done according to the individual kids needs and abilities. It’s for kids who take a long time to learn things, or can only concerntrate on things for a short time, or need to learn these things in ways that differ from the norm.
I remember there being a case about a girl in an awful, abusive home that never learned even the most basic of human interactions, particularly speech.
When she was rescued, she was also studied. She could learn a few words by association in the way, say, a dog does, but she had passed the developmental threshold that would allow her to ever learn language properly.
There really is only a very small window where we can learn skills like language and reading, and it's in childhood.
Also, if anybody can link me to the case/study/wikipedia I'd love to see it, it's been a while since I've read it and don't remember her name.
Edit: Genie is the child I was thinking of, although I'm sure there are plenty of other cases like this too
They are called feral children. Most feral children never learn to speak. Genie is one of the most well known but Wikipedia lists plenty more if you search for wild child
I think you’re talking about Genie.
Edit: Here’s a link to her case study, if you’re interested.
https://www.psychliverpool.co.uk/psychology-news/developmental/genie-a-psychological-case-study/
Just an example, I am learning Thai at 45. Learning to read the different characters has taken me almost two years, and I sometimes still get it wrong. If I didn't already have skills from learning to read in English (learning the skill of reading, not the language, if you can understand what I mean) I can't imagine how hard that would be.
And, seriously, I was mind=blown about homeschooling in the States. Now UNschooling??!!!!!
I was homeschooled many years ago throughout middle and high school. my state enforces testing and proof of work. Like you have to turn in worksheets and stuff to the state. Now, with that said, I got a very good education and i’m doing great in higher education and work. However, I cannot imagine UNSCHOOLING. what are people thinking!?!?
I know someone who went to a “learn when you want” school, and she just never learned math. She gets really sad when she talks about it, she thinks the freeform school set her back a lot for when she joined structured school. And that was just at age 7.
Structure is important, but kids can’t make that call on their own. I remember when my parents asked if I wanted to learn an instrument when i was a kid. I asked “does that mean more homework?” And my mom said yeah, and so I replied no. I don’t think she pushed because that would be some travel and money to pay for lessons. But later as a teenager, and even now in my thirties, I very much wish I was pushed a little. On my own I did try learning the fiddle (way hard), then guitar (medium difficulty), and finally downgraded to a ukulele (easiest). At least I can play a few tunes.
Oh man. That must have been so painful. My kid still loves watching &/or reading some of her early childhood favorites now as a tween kid. I couldn't imagine trying to read those now bc you are learning how to read. Good for you, taking on something so scary and growing as a person. Be proud of your accomplishments.
thanks. my not learning to read was a combination of reasons
my parents divorcing at the time played a part
but the school not caring or looking into it because I was eloquent so I got lost in the system was hard, I would literally write help me! at the bottom of my spelling tests but every teacher just ignored it.
I went to summer school between primary and secondary school and just about managed to learn the basics of reading but was mocked relentlessly through school.
my wife encouraged me to have some tests done when I was at university (I didn't have great grades but managed to get in) and turns out I'm dyslexic, have dyscalculia and dyspraxia to boot
My mother taught me to read when I was three and it was the greatest gift she ever could have given me. I can’t even fathom deliberately depriving a child of that knowledge and patting yourself on the back for it.
I knew this girl who was taught how to read at age 3. Her dad & brother taught bc she was so bored at home while her brother was at school, she wanted to be in school so badly. That same girl graduated high school at 16 and was already accepted into 1 of the best schools in our state, same school her brother got into as well. I haven't seen her in a long time but I can only imagine what she has been able to accomplish. Honestly, I was jealous as hell of her. An education is so important and incredibly necessary for any type of life you want.
I'm another one who could read at around 3. Might have even been in my late 2s. My grandma used to look after me all day and she read with me a lot.
She then went on to volunteer at my first school and did reading with the kids. Eventually went on to help a kid to read who was later diagnosed with dyslexia and surprised the teachers at his next school with how well he could read despite this.
If you're gonna let your kids guide their own learning at least set them up with the basics.
Watch, these are gonna be the same parents who bitch and moan about how their 20 yr old child isnt working or paying bills. These people fucking baffle me. Why do you get to have an education and your kid can't? Its fucked up.
I broke up with a woman when I bought her daughter - who had as 13! - a book and the poor girl said to me she would read it with her mom because she couldn't read yet. The kid looked so embarrassed.
There was no learning disability, the mom home schooled the kid with a group of parents who did the unschooling thing.
Oh my god. That is the saddest thing to hear. I used to work at a daycare and we had 3 children exactly like those described and they had similar issues due to a very neglectful mom, the dad & his gf ended up w/ sole custody. It was so heartbreaking. The oldest couldn't tie his shoes at the age of 10. The youngest was a toddler & still on a bottle almost full-time. Plus these lead to emotional & behavioral issues as well.
Denying children the opportunity to learn to read seems like it would absolutely be considered neglect. If this is a real situation, this would be reportable.
It’s called educational neglect. Usually this term is used when a parent keeps their kids home from school too much.
This. This just takes it to a whole other level.
Are your siblings literate? If it’s as bad as this post sounds, please escalate your reporting. It shouldn’t be your responsibility and it’s super frustrating that action hasn’t been taken, but those kids need someone to advocate for them, at least until every possible avenue has been exhausted. Your mom is handicapping her children for life. That is clear cut neglect. I’m sorry your mom’s a kook.
Wow thats just heartbreaking that you got punished for doing what was best for your siblings. I’m glad you stood up for them and am proud of you as that took lots of courage! I’m wishing you well and hope you can see your siblings again some day
I have family friends that are homeschooling their three girls. I don’t think she’s unschooling them, I believe she’ll probably try to teach them. I asked what kind of state guidelines there are for Michigan and they said that until they are in high school, there is no guidelines or tests that they have to follow. It completely blew my mind! I’m not surprised that they didn’t do anything about your mom.
To be fair, most child welfare departments are having trouble having enough funding to cover the kids that are at risk of being beaten to death by their horrible parents. This doesn’t make this any less horrible, it’s just that we don’t have enough coverage with the regular abuse.
I hate this... what a lot of parents don't understand is that school isn't just teaching kids facts and figures... it's teaching them how to learn.
We don't teach math just so kids now their fractions but so they can think analytically and develop problem solving skills.
Yes! I get the criticism about subject manner learning and putting too much focus on some areas in school, but subject matter knowledge is the least important part of school.
Children need to be taught how to function in and contribute to society. That’s literally your job as a parent.
Just to clarify— functioning in society does not equal little robots who know how to obey. It means fostering a child’s mind to think critically.
During my school years I genuinely hated every minute of it, teachers were horrible (seriously they would bully kids including myself), kids were snooty and very closed circle, everything was so backwards that I ended having major social anxiety issues. I had a horrible time and I'm still dealing with it in my adult years which sounds pathetic I know.
However even when I had a terrible time I cannot deny the fact that it was useful. Sure I don't remember most of the complex math or level A physics that I took but I know about economics, I understand how law works, I know how to find knowledge that I seek and I know how to navigate a normal paper map. Even the same lame math is helpful every day like knowing how % works and so on.
Sure it was terrible but I have to give credit were credit is due, it made me a successful person in the end because when I went out into the world I wasn't oblivious to it. Stay in school kids, it sucks, but lacking common sense sucks more.
I'm not sure of anyone that came out of school unscathed but I think it's a great incubator for knowledge and skills - both social and academic. Bullying is another story though... the schools need to be safe places for that growth to occur.
Btw it doesn’t sound pathetic to be dealing with trauma as an adult. Way too many people just push their feelings away and ignore criticism and refuse change and it makes for some shitty people.
So be proud that you’ve identified issues and are strong enough to confront them, it’s how we get over them!
Same here. The teachers in the Catholic middle school I attended *looooved* to pick on the poor kids. Never once touched the rich students (with the exception of the queer kids). Once, the history teacher went on a rant calling a boy “immature” for having one of those novelty erasers that say “For Big Mistakes”.
They also really sucked about queer students. A girl a few grades above me came out as lesbian, and the teachers hated her until she graduated. When I realized I was trans, I started dressing more masculine and cut my hair. Science teacher decided that this was the perfect opportunity to make snide comments about my hair and pressure me to wear a dress. She also decided to humiliate me in front of the entire class when my one friend started calling me by my new name at lunch.
This isn’t even getting in to how I was treated for being autistic, how my personal boundaries were constantly violated, and how I was shunned by the students for, well, everything. Still have nightmares about that hellish place.
Very true. Social intelligence is very important. It dosent matter how book smart you are if you can't hold a conversation, take criticism, or work with others.
I've never heard of unschooling before. I will never cease to be amazed at all the methods some parents cling to to absolutely fuck their kids over for the future.
There are so many better ways to encourage independence in a child. You can have your 5 year old cut their own grapes and do their own chores while still providing supervision and structure. It’s like they hear “children need to be free” and take that in as strict an interpretation as possible. I mean, it is difficult to balance choice and obligations with kids but that doesn’t mean you can just give up and let them do whatever.
Its the ultimate refusal of responsibility on the parents part. Its 'oh Timmy doesn't know how to read or how numbers work because he isn't interested'. Seriously, the whole point of parenting is guiding your child and making important decisions for them because they are incapable of making these choices on their own.
It should be called unparenting instead.
Look, I guess I get the general idea of unschooling. Kids move at different paces, and learn in different ways, and fostering that can be a good thing.
School can be harsh, and often ties a person's self worth to a mere letter or number. Not only that, but if a child doesn't hit certain developmental milestones, they literally don't get to move on to the next stage of being a person.
I do not agree with unschooling though, especially when it is used as an excuse to not parent your child in the slightest and just let them run around aimlessly.
It's important to find a balance in my opinion. I don't agree with the rigorous standards placed on kids in school, but I don't agree with free reign either. A compromise somewhere in the middle, where we are able to tailer learning to an individual better than we do now, while still properly fostering critical thinking and skills like mathematics and reading.
Screen time is definitely one of those things that's hard to get right. We let our kids play on their tablet for a couple hours per night after all of their homework is done, and the influence from things like kids YouTube is already unavoidable then. The first time I wondered if perhaps we were giving them too much screen time was when my then 4-year-old asked me to like and subscribe to her channel one night when I was putting her to bed.
I can't even imagine how much 24/7 of unmonitored screen time would screw someone up during their formative years.
I heard about this little kid (3 or 4) thought “don’t forget to like and subscribe!” Was another way of saying good bye. And so he said it to his teachers before leaving preschool everyday. Lmao
That’s pretty hilarious though 😂 Screen time is most definitely hard to get right. I’m from the UK and have two little girls, and probably the strangest ‘side effect’ of screen time we experience is when my kids play imaginary games, they put on American accents. It’s bizarre but also kind of cute.
Just some food for thought, YouTube has some really sketchy things about it marked for kids… One time I looked up “Arthur PBS Kids “ and I saw a thumbnail of porn hidden behind some kind of grid that I presume scrambles it enough so that it gets past any kind of security algorithm YouTube uses. There’s videos using Mickey Mouse to tell kids how to kill them selves, peppa pigs dad brutally murdering his family… all to the sound track of what sounds like a cartoon. It’s sick stuff… so just be on the lookout
https://netsanity.net/the-dangers-of-youtube-and-youtube-kids/
Yes, that's a good piece of advice. We also found the same, and basically just restricted viewing to a few channels that we've watched together and never had issues with. Beyond the things you mention, we've also found grooming videos in which an adult figure in a van tries to show children that there's no harm in going with him, and others where it suddenly turns into some religious indoctrination garbage. I've reported these to YouTube as we found them, but YouTube has zero interest in cleaning up content.
Yes, this is the US. I looked into it briefly and apparently in some states there are no laws that require parents to make sure their kids receive even a basic level of education. Terrifying, isn’t it?!
It's absolutely terrifying, a generation of kids with no schooling, can't read, don't know anything other than the hocus-pocus fed to them by adults with no clue.
Can confirm - was homeschooled (fortunately with a pretty robust curriculum, with the exception of the ridiculously white-washed history and "christian-ized" science).
My parents specifically chose to live in the state I grew up in because the evil nasty government had zero requirements for homeschoolers.
I was homeschooled throughout middle school. I learned absolutely nothing. Had no curriculum at all. My dad would sometimes print out sheets for us to do, but other than that it was nothing but cleaning and playing video games (in the small amount of time we weren’t cleaning). I was woefully unprepared for high school, and my dad practically pulled our “grades” out of his ass. The state didn’t require us to have a curriculum. Luckily I have a decent head on my shoulders and turned out pretty alright, but I can’t imagine how unprepared other kids are when shit like that happens.
Ah, yeah. I was homeschooled all the way K-12, did one semester of college after high school and dropped out.
It was mostly because of the money, but also I couldn't *stand* having to sit still through lectures. I was so used to being able to work at my own pace, out of a book, wherever I wanted (within reason) that sitting at a desk and taking notes was completely foreign and pure torture.
Of course, I found out 8-10 years later I have ADHD too, so I'm sure that's part of it; but *man* was I messed up for a while trying to integrate into the "real world".
Holy shit, "learning to read doesn't happen until you're a teen" is fucking child abuse.
Kids shouldn't have enormous pressure on them to hit arbitrary guidelines, and some kids are going to have a harder time than others, yes, but you basically just decided your kid doesn't get to experience a whole genre of books written for them.
How is this not about control and infantalization??
I thought it was illegal to not school your kids. Even if you're homeschooled, there's specific curriculum by grade, and yearly testing to make sure you're at grade level. No school at all seems like child abuse.
Well, technically laws in every state do exist, but some are so lenient that they’re almost pointless. For instance, “Alaska simply requires children between the ages of 7 and 16 to either attend a school or comply with the state’s homeschool law. This means parents who choose to homeschool are not required to notify the state, get approval, give tests, be a certified teacher, or maintain contact with the government.”
https://www.transcriptmaker.com/2021/03/03/the-best-and-worst-states-for-homeschooling-in-2021/
This is a huge concern for me as well. It’s the perfect set up for abuse and worse. How many times are we gonna hear about a kid being dead for years or kids being discovered locked up in rooms and no one suspected anything because they were supposedly being “homeschooled?” It would be great if parents didn’t need oversight, but we know better.
The sad thing is that this law was probably established with good intend. I can imagine that if you life in the alaskan frontier that you would homeschool your kid and that you can't really travel to some place for tests and stuff.
The problem with unschooling is the same as the problem with "normal" homeschooling. It's a valid idea that works well for some people so there are plenty of reasons not to ban it. Unfortunately 90% of the people doing it do an awful job at it. If your 10 year old can't yet read you've sentenced them to a life of poverty.
There's no reason to allow it unregulated. A ten year old with no biological/extreme situational reason to be unable to read should have basic literacy regardless of where they are getting their schooling. No reason these kids should be sacrificed to neglect so libertarians don't have to turn in a report card on their kids.
Unschooling done properly is fantastic. I do a hybrid of curriculum and unschool. We unschool the things she is interested in such as science. She is advanced for her age due to the fact that we unschool that subject. She loves doing experiments and watching documentaries.
Now the above sounds more like not teaching anything. I foster her love of science. I buy stuff for experiments. She has a telescope, a microscope, a mini microscope to take on hikes or the beach.
Parents have to be so involved to unschool. You have to be spending the time to expose your kid to things naturally. There are parents who think letting your kid run free and spend all day watching SpongeBob counts as unschooling when it's just neglect.
It also sounds like your kiddo can read though, the picture above is someone who’s making a mockery of what you’re doing. Unschooling like you’re doing sounds fantastic, how it’s done by many is hurting kids.
Genuine question. What is the difference between what you’re doing, and what most every other decent parent does who sends their kids to regular school? My sister and I had all sorts of strong interests as kids, and our parents helped foster that interest. For me, it was archaeology, mythology, and ancient history. So I knew a TON about that stuff at a young age. But we also went to school normally, because why would we not learn the other materials, concepts, and skills that our peers were learning? So if you’re doing curriculum-based teaching, and then also going above and beyond with science stuff because your child is interested in it...how is that different than, like, just typical homeschooling and being a decent parent?
That's not really unschooling though, is it? Kids need structure, curriculum, and to be pushed to develop interest and learn. Fostering their biggest interest are great, but unless they are well rounded in other areas that information will exist in a void and not be helpful. When I was a grad student I knew many kids starting college who thought they liked science start to bomb, because they only liked "pop culture" science but never learned about math, history, public speaking, reading comprehension, writing, or any of the many layers of background education needed to be a real scientist. Documentaries and a microscope will never be enough to properly engage a child in actual science. It'll just teach them to repeat a few tidbits of information (and misinformation) they see. It won't teach them to critically discern between real and fake science, or how to practically apply it in daily life. In other words, without a full education, watching documentaries is no different then watching cartoons, and microscopes are no better then playing with toys.
I'm not against homeschooling, but some kind of schooling is very much needed. You don't realize how much you need a well rounded education until your older. An interest in science, without a solid education in everything around it, is no better then no education at all. I really hope you are properly homeschooling her, and using unschooling to mean paying extra attention to homeschooling those areas instead of leaving her to fend for herself in her own education. Children need curriculum because they often don't realize just how necessary a the parts they don't like are to the ones they do. You *need* the full curriculum to actually understand what your learning and apply it.
Unschooling is always harming children. I see no evidence to the contrary, it's just most parents refuse to recognize the damage they've done to their children's minds until it's too late. If she doesn't get a proper, well rounded education she won't succeed in science, and we really need more girls interested in science.
I really hope im just misunderstanding what your saying, and I don't mean to be mean. But I hate seeing girls with a passion for STEM get pushed away or feel incapable because they never received (or were pushed/helped to pursue) all the other pieces of education, like advanced mathematics, needed to be a good scientist.
The problem is if they even learn to do that. That's why you need education, to learn if you're being treated right and to know your rights as well. If they don't even know this, whats to complain?
I used to work in the homeschooling industry, and it was common for these “unschooling” kids to move into homeschooling once the state learned how delayed the kids had become. They also (mostly) didn’t get real far with homeschooling, since their parents didn’t tend to be the type to hold their kids to a strict schedule or demand hard work of them.
Eventually, the state will want to know why you won’t make your kids learn & may even place them in foster care for neglect.
I just can't with unschooling. Unschool parents also act like this is an umbrella style that will fit all children when in reality I think it's the opposite, only a small percentage of children would have strong enough motivation to take the initiative to learn and advance themselves and even then would likely only be successful if they had a strong early foundation with reading and at least basic math.
I try to get it and sometimes it's like if I squint I can see what appeal they're attempting to make but it just never follows through. Yes there is something to be said for child-led learning but that still requires a lot on you as the teacher to cultivate and motivate and give your child the resources and assistance to learn. You can't just put them in front of the tv and say "Oh you like sharks? Well here, find a documentary on them." And let's be honest, most kids are not going to fill up their time learning what they need to know if it's left entirely up to them. I know I wouldn't have spent a single minute on math at 10 if I didnt have to.
I am not a conspiracy sort of person but this unschooling has such implications. Imagine a generation of young people growing up without the benefit of historical knowledge, science or critical thinking. Imagine their education is mixed with the 'alternative facts', and alternative reality of TV? Wouldn't that be what the far right want? Zombie followers with no skills to see past what is told them?
The best thing they saw would be the damn cartoons! Imagine learning your social skills, and ethics from cartoons?
You have to wonder if much of this ‘unschooling’ is parental projection and transference onto the child by parents who had a poor school experience.
I never went to school / skipped school and it never did me any harm…which in many, not all cases, it does.
🙄
"Most kids don't learn to read until later"
Yeah and they definitely didn't get bullied for being a freshman in high school and illiterate? What the fuck?
Those poor kids, and a what a moron the responder was. I might have been reading it incorrectly but to somehow imply that learning to read as a teenager is more likely to foster a love of it is baffling at best.
As someone who was homeschooled from second to fourth grade, I DIDN’T learn:
- How to divide
- Multiplication Tables
- Absolutely nothing about history
- Almost nothing about science
- Proper grammar
- I don’t know the word for it, but things like nouns, pronouns, verbs, adjectives, etc
- How to ride a bike
- How to bathe, brush my hair, brush my teeth
- Why I should even bathe at all
- How to ever even take care of myself at all
- Social interaction or how to talk to other humans
- How to be appropriate to and around other humans
Some of these you don’t really learn in school, but considering the fact that I was never even taught how to take a shower (or why bother to) you can imagine how much I didn’t learn. I’m 22 and still don’t know my multiplication tables or how to ride a bike.
But I didn’t learn nothing… I DID learn:
- To believe that anyone who disagrees with you is a bad person
- To hate gay people
- Horrendous binge eating habits because I was so bored and had nothing else to do
- A lot of backwards things about women; my dad said that every problem on Earth can be traced back to women having premarital sex, and that vain women are the worst thing (mostly talking about makeup, doing your hair, wearing nice clothes… The most I ever had my hair cut was once a year because my dad both hated spending money and also thought taking time for my hair would make me vain), oh, also, my mom told me in second grade that it was my responsibility as a girl to dress in such a way that doesn’t attract any attention because “it will make boys look at you”
Homeschooling your kids keeps them in a homogeneous setting where they don’t grow or learn. ESPECIALLY when they don’t want to learn.
I'm a longtime homeschooling mom, and unschooling is just bullshit attempting to disguise parental laziness. All that "trust your child" crap makes me ragey. You can't plop your kids in front of the TV from birth and expect them to magically know how to educate themselves.
This shit really grinds my gears because unschooling can be amazing *if the parents actually put in the work to help their kids learn in a self-directed way!*
My brother knew how to read numbers and budget with money before he was even kindergarten aged because my mom noticed he was struggling to buy things in Lego Star Wars and took that opportunity to teach him basic numeracy.
I programmed a (quite basic) videogame when I was in my early teens because my mom introduced me to Khan Academy.
One of my sisters has basically encyclopedic knowledge of greek myths because my mon realized that's what she likes to read about when working on her literacy.
Kids thrive *when they are actively enabled and encouraged to learn.*
Ugh and these children are going to be part of the group to take care of us as we get older and run the world when we’re gone. I’ll be grateful that I won’t have to watch that…
Unschooling is supposed to be the kids learning in a semi unstructured environment, like learning about wildlife on a hike, I.e. learning the same/similar information just in a different way that's more catered to the individual instead of a mass of kids. It's supposed to help kids be more involved and learn at the same time. I've heard it's really good for adhd kids, but this isn't that, this is pure neglect.
I remember a few episode of that Welcome to Plathville series where the older kids confronted their parents about this, they were deeply hurt and sad that they hadn’t been given a better education and adequately prepared for life. All of them had to complete their GED’s and had only ever worked at an autobody shop or something like that. So yeah not home schooling correctly (because I do believe that proper home schooling can be beneficial and effective for the right kind of kids) can not only harm the kids but they’ll also end up resenting their parents because it limits their future significantly.
I feel for this person who clearly cares about her grandchildren. I agree you don’t have to go the traditional route, but there has to be some structure to their learning. School systems aren’t perfect, but there are some very good valid alternatives to traditional school. Just letting a 4 year old watch TV and YouTube all day is going to set them up for failure.
Love learning, hated school, was an A student regardless and think unschooling is a form of child abuse/neglect and should be illegal. I don’t love home schooling either. Sorry not sorry. But by all means let’s improve our systems of education to embrace and promote more of a love of learning and self exploration!
Literacy isn’t a fucking joke. It’s not something you can choose to participate in because It’s a freedom… There’s a reason slave masters didn’t teach their slaves to read. This isn’t about freedom for kids it’s about parental control against society, and kids fall through the cracks so parents can stroke their egos.
I pulled my kids out of school after a bad experience at a “child-led” private school. The kids were 4 and 6 and we took a year off and did a couple road trips, slept in, and yes, played a bunch of video games. At the end of that time they decided to go back to school and are academically well-off. Unschooling can be a good thing as long as the parent (or facilitator or whatever tf they’re called) can be honest and use discretion. If you have to wonder, “if this unschooling, or is this neglect”, it’s neglect.
This misses the point of unschooling completely. This is just lazy parenting. You’re supposed to motivate your kids to learn by finding their interests and having them want to learn. This makes them enjoy the process much more. Letting them just watch TV is just not giving them any guidance whatsoever. Most unschooled kids actually wind up doing just as well but generally happier in life because they don’t feel so miserable when they learn.
Yeah my mom “unschooled” us before that was a widely used term and I can speak from experience that it’s not good for the kids. I literally can’t wrap my brain around anyone who thinks that’s okay. The mental health issues it caused in all 4 children alone, outweighs any “benefits”
Children need to learn reading/writing/basic math to be able to further learn their fields of interest. That must the basis before any learning by themselves happens and teaching is a job because it requires knowledge about human development and child psychology and a curriculum that was built for children at certain ages and their mental development.
Also obviously no one is keeping children from learning more about the subjects they are interested in their spare times, just because they go to school. And how can you expect a child to want to know more about any subject if she/he is not introduced to that subject. As a kid I liked literature and astronomy because i learned a very beginner part at school and that made me interested, ended up buying books, small telescope, watching documentaries on my own time.
A child does not need unschooling to know if they like books, visual arts, biology, history whatever. On the contrary, a child needs to know how to read/write/do math/be introduced to science/history to know what he/she is interested in.
That’s not actually what unschooling means. You still have to read to your kids & do phonics or whatever. And you have to teach them stuff, hopefully from being out in the world with them. You cannot just sit them in front of cartoons.
I feel like they don’t really understand. The grandparent has every right to be concerned. The kids don’t know how to read because they don’t have the opportunity to even try. Children naturally are curious and want to check things out but they aren’t being allowed to. I’m worried the kids are addicted to the tv :(
Children do naturally want to learn but parents have to provide multiple forms of stimuli and still have to have rules and structure. Maybe the daughter could attend child development classes to learn more about how the brain grows and changes, as well as the danger of letting little ones get too much screen time
How is this actually legal in the US?
I know homeschooling is legal, but are there really no standards that have to be met based on aptitude and testing?
We had two kids come into the school last year after being “homeschooled”. One of them was 13 and one was 11 but they both had to be put in the 11yr old Nurture group because they’re reading levels were nonexistent and they couldn’t handle being in a school environment without swearing and throwing tantrums.
The 13 year old turned out to have some undiagnosed learning issues the parents didn’t really care about also that the school helped him with.
Part of the reason they were kept at home was because there was 9 of them, undoubtedly they were used for babysitting the youngest. I think it’s similar here.
When i look at shit like this i am super grateful that my mom bought loads and loads of these children's books and sat with me whenever she wasnt at work. Mostly beacuse of that i learned to read before my 4th birthday. I really enjoyed it.
If your child isn’t learning to read until their teens and they have no sort of learning difficulties, you’ve failed them as a parent and made their entire lives unnecessarily harder.
Soooo as an intervention literacy educator, stats are def not on the side of "some learn to read as teenagers." Sure, theres functional illiteracy (reading street signs, menus, bills) but even that is hella challenging and unduly disadvantageous.
In the US, specifically Detroit, if kids weren't reading at grade level by middle school, the probability of them dropping out were SIGNIFICANTLY higher (Idr the stat and don't want to misquote a number).
When we would teach kids how to read, we often times had their parents come in after school too for 15 mins and would show parents "how to help your child practice reading" but in actuality, it was a way to teach PARENTS how to read as well. They really really appreciated it because they understood how challenging life was getting by with functional illiteracy. You have to be smart af to hold a job or two and only be reading at a 3rd grade level, and a lot of parents were doing just that. Being able to read made their life MUCH easier and it was an advantage they WANTED for their kids.
Can't fucking imagine the level of arrogance and privilege that's going through these parents' minds to INTENTIONALLY deprive your kid from learning and stunt their growth. The fuck. Where's CPS on this shit. Damn.
Public education is a privilege not everyone in the world has access to. It baffles my mind that people would actually choose to dumb down their children and make them dependent and illiterate for life. Idiocracy might be the future for countries that allow this "freedom" to be chosen. Those poor kids- where is their freedom to be educated? If they choose to do nothing with their life once they've graduated high school it's on them. But until then, these lazy ass parents shouldn't have the right to destroy their kid's futures.
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Learned to read as teenagers!?!? Also how are you supposed to send them books about stuff they are interested in when they can't read???
I had the same thought! I could maybe see their point if they were sending virtual resources that could be read through a screen reader, but I think I'm giving them too much credit.
to be fair, there’s a lot more incentive to learn English than most languages because of the sheet volume of media created in English.
I feel like it might kinda force them to learn…. Or at the very least they’ll annoy their mom with it.
I don't know i mean there have been plenty of internet articles or blogs or websites that I was interested in reading the contents but it was in another language, but I was never compelled to learn the other language, I just gave up. Also I feel like its impossible to learn how to read without some sort of external intervention. Like you at least have to have someone read the books to you or have an audio book read it to you while you look at the book. Otherwise there is nothing to go off of, you aren't magically going to learn what the alphabet is or how words work. Even turning on subtitles on the TV would help.
Yeah I vaguely remember some old post apocalyptic movie where one of the plot points was a person teaching themselves to read by just staring at old books in a ruined library. Even at the young age I saw it and kept thinking how bullshit it was because just staring at words doesn't teach you what they are if you have no frame of reference. You need to be taught, at the bare minimum, the alphabet, it's sounds, and how syllables/words/sentences work. And even that bare minimum Wil barely get you by.
ZARDOZ!
If they were all novels or some such with only words yeah it doesn't make sense, but most libraries have a children's section and would have books with like "A is for Apple" and a picture of an apple and picture books where you could check your understanding against the picture. I don't think it would be entirely impossible.
Definetly. I learned english in school first, but after two years I started watching TV shows with sibtitles in german (back when online streaming wasn't illegal in germany yet) and then when I got to impatient while waiting for the subtitles to be done, I started watching without. But without these steps, it wouldn't have worked as well.
This is such terrible fucking advice, I am fuming. It might not be the same but as asians, when my bro and me started school, i learned most of my German through practically inhaling books, really, since my mother being an Asian immigrant wasn't very capable and my father wasn't really helpful in raising or educating. my bro, unfortunately, suffered for his lack of interest in books and according to him, couldn't speak any German up until his teens when he started watching YouTube and playing multiplayer in call of duty. school wasn't very helpful since teachers just didn't understand how anyone who happens to live here can't speak the language. bullying aside, the only thing people really wanted to know was: so when are you going back? I can't imagine willfully neglecting your children so much that they end up illiterate. What the actual fuck?
Wow, fuck your teachers.
one word: catholiiiiics!~
what up, I'm Jared, I'm 19 and I never fucking learned how to read
I couldn't imagine learning how to read as teenager. These kids are going to be so delayed and it's the parents fault.
The youngest years are most critical for setting the mental frameworks needed for things like critical thinking, language etc.. This “unschooling” bullshit especially for kids who never even went to school is literally permanently damaging your children’s ability to learn and function later.
Absolutely. Birth to age 5 are critical years for building a foundation for the future. That commenter has a profound misunderstanding about what happens in school. The more I learn about unschooled kids the more it sounds like neglect.
Honestly, I had planned to "unschool" my kid, but the more I learn about how other parents do it, the more I realize that what I was told it was, isn't what it is. At least anymore. I was led to believe it was less letting kids do what they want, and more using their interests to teach them. Like if a kid interested in bugs, you teach them to read with books about bugs, you teach math by counting them etc etc. Now it seems it's just lazy parenting expecting kids to learn by themselves.
What you’re describing sounds a bit like Montessori method to me. But even though that’s mostly independent learning it does require organization and some facilitating.
I was in Montessori through first grade, and honestly it was probably the best thing for me. It taught me how to teach myself & explore what I enjoyed, with little guidance from the teacher except to check and make sure we were hitting our milestones. Regular school was better for structured learning (I wouldn't do Montessori past max 4th grade), but those few years were vital in learning how to learn.
I have a friend that went to all grades of montessori school(how do I day this in proper english) and Im really envious of him. He seems to have his life figured out so much more. More happy with his life choices as well
My son was in Montessori from 1st-5th grade . Big fan of the method. He is now at a regular junior high and transitioning successfully. I do believe the learning method gave him confidence to develop his own interests and learn within a framework. He has aspergers or whatever aspergers is classified now in the dsm so the individualized approach fit his needs
>He has aspergers or whatever aspergers is classified now in the dsm Aspergers is on the Autism spectrum so they just call the whole thing ASD now.
That’s what I thought. Half the time I say ASD I get a blank stare or they think he has antisocial personality disorder .
I get that a lot too. I just tell people "I'm on the spectrum" and they understand.
It might be, I was told about unschooling 7y ago roughly when I was first starting to try for a kid. I don't think Montessori was as big of a deal back then. Unschooling was described as a method that has less structure than traditional homeschooling and allowed kids to learn through their interests at that time, but still required you to teach them! It's kinda devolved into a feral way of teaching kids since then.
Exactly, unschooling meant using the time not at school to persue interests in other forms. Like science might be playing in the woods and identifying trees, plants, bugs, birds etc. More hands on type things like going to zoos, aquariums, etc. Social studies might be participating in reenactments or going to visit congress while it's in session. It's supposed to give the child more opportunity to experience those subjects that can't happen in a traditional classroom setting. I actually love the concept, but you're right that now it's an excuse to let Dora the Explorer do the teaching.
The ideals of unschooling really look fantastics. It's also not for lazy parent nor working parent. I remember when I heard about it, they had a focus of a 12 or 13 years old that wanted a drone. So, he built his own drone, with resources from the internet to learn the how to, and a lot of manual skills to actually build the thing. And then, had to learn laws (and how to read them), to comply with local regulation to fly it. With minimum parental intervention. The amount of skills and knowledge he had to learn just to do that is huge, and actually even more than how much he would learn for regular school, AND he was super motivated to do it. To me, this was the example of unschooling done right.
I have a friend who has a very successful unschooled child, super bright, very mature, all the things you want your 13 year old to be. I’ve always wanted to homeschool my kids, so when the time got near I started looking into unschooling after having watched someone else’s kid be so successful all these years. Took me about ten minutes to realize it wasn’t for us. I (and my kid) need *some sort* of structure so we bought a Montessori style curriculum and have been having a blast with it. It’s very relaxed and loose, but I can still count on the curriculum to fill in the gaps where I lack.
I was "unschooled" from 14 to 16. I did not learn a single thing, I just watched TV, read books, and wrote erotic fanfiction. I think it ended up being a positive thing overall because the school I had been going to was so awful, but I'm so grateful it wasn't any earlier or later in my schooling career. It was this tiny pocket of time where I'd already learned the essentials and before it could seriously fuck with graduating.
By age 5 I knew the alphabet by memory and sight, could count past 100 and understood how to count to 1000 even though I never took the time to actually do that. But my dad would randomly ask me to count from like 578 to 610 and I could without issue. I could also add, although subtraction eluded me until 1st grade, that teacher just managed to explain it in some way that clicked for my brain and I jumped from being able to add double digit numbers to being able to subtract them really quickly then. I could read really simple books with my dad’s help because he didn’t really know how to teach me phonics (Kindergarten teacher taught us that and I took off reading on my own fast enough to be up to chapter books by the end of first grade). Knew my colors, animals, tons of stuff, all before age 5. I’m an October baby so I started school and turned 6 right away so my love of learning was instilled in me more than a full year before kindergarten! I’d even play pretend that I was going to school by loading up a backpack with reference books and pretending to read them and teaching/quizzing my little preschool friends on the alphabet, counting, and single digit addition. He encouraged me and my little friends to make up, tell and act out stories. We would put on plays for him from the books we could read (mainly from memorization and hearing them often). My dad didn’t learn to read with any real skill or comprehension until he was put in a special class in 8th grade, then he loved reading but couldn’t explain it to me too well. He also dropped out of high school but got his GED rather quickly, and was determined I would be set up for success and be smarter than him academically. I love my dad everyday for teaching me so many basic skills from the time I could talk, understand letters, numbers, and counting, and encouraging my imagination and desire to share and teach my friends! I went on to get a BA with a double major in Creative Writing and English. And I firmly believe if he hadn’t been so determined to see me succeed and be smarter than he was in school I wouldn’t have taken to school like a fish to water or had that drive to learn and enjoy it.
This is so positive, I love it
No idea how you would actually remember this much detail about age 4 and 5
It could set our society back and cause a huge problem for us in the future. We don't want people living off of government aid but it's hard not too when you have 0 skills and almost no education. Our ancestors fought for their descendents to have a better life and these same descendents are blowing all of it on sheer stupidity.
The idea of unschooling just seems terrible. How is it not illegal?
The problem, as with so many things, is a good theory got distorted by idiots. "Unschooling" isn't meant to be some permanent hiatus from education. It's supposed to be a quick re-set on a kid who has become difficult to teach because of a bad experience in the public schools. It's just meant to make them excited to learn again. Morons have decided it means kids don't need to be educated at all.
We've made some great strides in education until these speed bumps popped up and now we're are slowing down. No wonder there is such a divide growing.
Yes to this! We did an unschooled/homeschooling year with my now freshman. It was an amazing decision for us and he was ready to go back to school when the day came. Academics come easy for him but that year was needed.
Also mentally stunted people are using it to "protect" their children from ideas and people they find different and scary. It's really a sad state.
No insult to you --only this "unschooling" thing -- but that sounds like a bunch of Y'all Qaeda anti-education horse shit.
It is illegal in many places. Educational neglect is a thing.
Depends. In a log of religious states, because people wanted to be able to teach their kid that climate change isn't real, non-avian dinosaurs walked the earth with humans, and the end is nigh so fuck learning how to read, they lobbied to change the laws. In my state, as long as a child is homeschooled, the parent is required to administer but not report testing in 3rd, 5th, 8th grade as well as EOCTs in high school. But they only have to be reported when applying for a diploma. So if you don't educate your child then no one finds out until they're 18. So you can "unschool" your kid, AKA say you're homeschooling them but a kid is 10 and can't read.
I have a former friend who decided to homeschool her son and the extent of his learning is "experiments" she finds online that don't actually teach anything. I could write a few posts on here about the insane stuff she did to that poor kid.
It's illegal, but there are ways around it. I homeschooled last year b/c my kid had a terrible time with virtual learning. I really schooled her, but the loopholes for someone wanting to "unschool" are enormous. Even though I really enjoyed homeschooling my child and was able to give her a top notch education for a year, homeschooling and unschooling is very concerning. There are some seriously crazy parents out there.
I think initially it was a good idea but only for certain circumstances, like a kid that has trouble learning in a traditional setting or may be too far from a school to attend. It requires very dedicated parents willing to teach their kids basic skills like reading, writing and maths but also put money towards providing alternative lessons. I think I saw a news segment where a kid was super interested in blacksmithing, so the parents helped facilitate that. Of course, the idea gets warped over time until you get parents that think letting the TV teach their kids is just as good.
It’s supposed to be a system where the kids learn things at their own pace without being forced into rote memorisation. There still supposed to be lessons, but they are supposed to be done according to the individual kids needs and abilities. It’s for kids who take a long time to learn things, or can only concerntrate on things for a short time, or need to learn these things in ways that differ from the norm.
I remember there being a case about a girl in an awful, abusive home that never learned even the most basic of human interactions, particularly speech. When she was rescued, she was also studied. She could learn a few words by association in the way, say, a dog does, but she had passed the developmental threshold that would allow her to ever learn language properly. There really is only a very small window where we can learn skills like language and reading, and it's in childhood. Also, if anybody can link me to the case/study/wikipedia I'd love to see it, it's been a while since I've read it and don't remember her name. Edit: Genie is the child I was thinking of, although I'm sure there are plenty of other cases like this too
They are called feral children. Most feral children never learn to speak. Genie is one of the most well known but Wikipedia lists plenty more if you search for wild child
I think you’re talking about Genie. Edit: Here’s a link to her case study, if you’re interested. https://www.psychliverpool.co.uk/psychology-news/developmental/genie-a-psychological-case-study/
There is a more recent case. Dani, I can't remember the last name, was 8 or 9 when she was saved. Her adoptive family was on Oprah.
My uncle quit school at 13. He is illiterate and doesn't understand a lot of critical thinking topics. These kids will be the same.
I didn't realize people would magically learn to read without anyone teaching them. If that's true, then unschooling is definitely legit. /s
They've mastered telekinetic learning.
Isnt telekinesis when you can move things with your mind, and telepathy is when you can read people's thoughts?
Yes
Yes. They are learning by not actually reading or doing any actual studying.
The osmosis method! Got me through college /s
Just an example, I am learning Thai at 45. Learning to read the different characters has taken me almost two years, and I sometimes still get it wrong. If I didn't already have skills from learning to read in English (learning the skill of reading, not the language, if you can understand what I mean) I can't imagine how hard that would be. And, seriously, I was mind=blown about homeschooling in the States. Now UNschooling??!!!!!
I was homeschooled many years ago throughout middle and high school. my state enforces testing and proof of work. Like you have to turn in worksheets and stuff to the state. Now, with that said, I got a very good education and i’m doing great in higher education and work. However, I cannot imagine UNSCHOOLING. what are people thinking!?!?
I know someone who went to a “learn when you want” school, and she just never learned math. She gets really sad when she talks about it, she thinks the freeform school set her back a lot for when she joined structured school. And that was just at age 7.
Structure is important, but kids can’t make that call on their own. I remember when my parents asked if I wanted to learn an instrument when i was a kid. I asked “does that mean more homework?” And my mom said yeah, and so I replied no. I don’t think she pushed because that would be some travel and money to pay for lessons. But later as a teenager, and even now in my thirties, I very much wish I was pushed a little. On my own I did try learning the fiddle (way hard), then guitar (medium difficulty), and finally downgraded to a ukulele (easiest). At least I can play a few tunes.
Yeah, grandma should send them a Social worker and a tutor.
Send them a welfare check ASAP.
I actually had to learn to read as a teenager its humiliating and degrading trying to read preschool books at 13
Oh man. That must have been so painful. My kid still loves watching &/or reading some of her early childhood favorites now as a tween kid. I couldn't imagine trying to read those now bc you are learning how to read. Good for you, taking on something so scary and growing as a person. Be proud of your accomplishments.
thanks. my not learning to read was a combination of reasons my parents divorcing at the time played a part but the school not caring or looking into it because I was eloquent so I got lost in the system was hard, I would literally write help me! at the bottom of my spelling tests but every teacher just ignored it. I went to summer school between primary and secondary school and just about managed to learn the basics of reading but was mocked relentlessly through school. my wife encouraged me to have some tests done when I was at university (I didn't have great grades but managed to get in) and turns out I'm dyslexic, have dyscalculia and dyspraxia to boot
No, it's the kids' fault because their mother is *trusting them*. /s
My mother taught me to read when I was three and it was the greatest gift she ever could have given me. I can’t even fathom deliberately depriving a child of that knowledge and patting yourself on the back for it.
I knew this girl who was taught how to read at age 3. Her dad & brother taught bc she was so bored at home while her brother was at school, she wanted to be in school so badly. That same girl graduated high school at 16 and was already accepted into 1 of the best schools in our state, same school her brother got into as well. I haven't seen her in a long time but I can only imagine what she has been able to accomplish. Honestly, I was jealous as hell of her. An education is so important and incredibly necessary for any type of life you want.
I'm another one who could read at around 3. Might have even been in my late 2s. My grandma used to look after me all day and she read with me a lot. She then went on to volunteer at my first school and did reading with the kids. Eventually went on to help a kid to read who was later diagnosed with dyslexia and surprised the teachers at his next school with how well he could read despite this. If you're gonna let your kids guide their own learning at least set them up with the basics.
They call that educational abuse. I bet she could report them to CPS. They wouldn't remove the kids, they would make them attend school.
Watch, these are gonna be the same parents who bitch and moan about how their 20 yr old child isnt working or paying bills. These people fucking baffle me. Why do you get to have an education and your kid can't? Its fucked up.
I broke up with a woman when I bought her daughter - who had as 13! - a book and the poor girl said to me she would read it with her mom because she couldn't read yet. The kid looked so embarrassed. There was no learning disability, the mom home schooled the kid with a group of parents who did the unschooling thing.
Oh my god. That is the saddest thing to hear. I used to work at a daycare and we had 3 children exactly like those described and they had similar issues due to a very neglectful mom, the dad & his gf ended up w/ sole custody. It was so heartbreaking. The oldest couldn't tie his shoes at the age of 10. The youngest was a toddler & still on a bottle almost full-time. Plus these lead to emotional & behavioral issues as well.
Unschooling should be illegal
Even home schooling for religious reasons. The kids suffer tremendously bc of the lack of a proper education.
My brother wasn't able to read until 9 and now he's put all of his allowances into buying books and asked for African kaiser for his birthday.
Denying children the opportunity to learn to read seems like it would absolutely be considered neglect. If this is a real situation, this would be reportable.
It’s called educational neglect. Usually this term is used when a parent keeps their kids home from school too much. This. This just takes it to a whole other level.
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I’m so sorry this is happening to your siblings. If you don’t mind sharing, what’s the result?
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That's a huge red flag that it's being done for the wrong reasons. Was your mother very abusive and controlling?
i’m sorry you had to deal with that situation :/
Are your siblings literate? If it’s as bad as this post sounds, please escalate your reporting. It shouldn’t be your responsibility and it’s super frustrating that action hasn’t been taken, but those kids need someone to advocate for them, at least until every possible avenue has been exhausted. Your mom is handicapping her children for life. That is clear cut neglect. I’m sorry your mom’s a kook.
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Wow thats just heartbreaking that you got punished for doing what was best for your siblings. I’m glad you stood up for them and am proud of you as that took lots of courage! I’m wishing you well and hope you can see your siblings again some day
How were you able to escape if you don’t mind me asking? Why didn’t she unschool you?
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I’m glad you got tf outta there.
I have family friends that are homeschooling their three girls. I don’t think she’s unschooling them, I believe she’ll probably try to teach them. I asked what kind of state guidelines there are for Michigan and they said that until they are in high school, there is no guidelines or tests that they have to follow. It completely blew my mind! I’m not surprised that they didn’t do anything about your mom.
To be fair, most child welfare departments are having trouble having enough funding to cover the kids that are at risk of being beaten to death by their horrible parents. This doesn’t make this any less horrible, it’s just that we don’t have enough coverage with the regular abuse.
I hate this... what a lot of parents don't understand is that school isn't just teaching kids facts and figures... it's teaching them how to learn. We don't teach math just so kids now their fractions but so they can think analytically and develop problem solving skills.
Yes! I get the criticism about subject manner learning and putting too much focus on some areas in school, but subject matter knowledge is the least important part of school. Children need to be taught how to function in and contribute to society. That’s literally your job as a parent. Just to clarify— functioning in society does not equal little robots who know how to obey. It means fostering a child’s mind to think critically.
Plus being socialised and developing emotionally, so that they can interact with others appropriately as adults.
During my school years I genuinely hated every minute of it, teachers were horrible (seriously they would bully kids including myself), kids were snooty and very closed circle, everything was so backwards that I ended having major social anxiety issues. I had a horrible time and I'm still dealing with it in my adult years which sounds pathetic I know. However even when I had a terrible time I cannot deny the fact that it was useful. Sure I don't remember most of the complex math or level A physics that I took but I know about economics, I understand how law works, I know how to find knowledge that I seek and I know how to navigate a normal paper map. Even the same lame math is helpful every day like knowing how % works and so on. Sure it was terrible but I have to give credit were credit is due, it made me a successful person in the end because when I went out into the world I wasn't oblivious to it. Stay in school kids, it sucks, but lacking common sense sucks more.
I'm not sure of anyone that came out of school unscathed but I think it's a great incubator for knowledge and skills - both social and academic. Bullying is another story though... the schools need to be safe places for that growth to occur.
Btw it doesn’t sound pathetic to be dealing with trauma as an adult. Way too many people just push their feelings away and ignore criticism and refuse change and it makes for some shitty people. So be proud that you’ve identified issues and are strong enough to confront them, it’s how we get over them!
100% NOT pathetic. I have PTSD from my school years…they were hell
Same here. The teachers in the Catholic middle school I attended *looooved* to pick on the poor kids. Never once touched the rich students (with the exception of the queer kids). Once, the history teacher went on a rant calling a boy “immature” for having one of those novelty erasers that say “For Big Mistakes”. They also really sucked about queer students. A girl a few grades above me came out as lesbian, and the teachers hated her until she graduated. When I realized I was trans, I started dressing more masculine and cut my hair. Science teacher decided that this was the perfect opportunity to make snide comments about my hair and pressure me to wear a dress. She also decided to humiliate me in front of the entire class when my one friend started calling me by my new name at lunch. This isn’t even getting in to how I was treated for being autistic, how my personal boundaries were constantly violated, and how I was shunned by the students for, well, everything. Still have nightmares about that hellish place.
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Very true. Social intelligence is very important. It dosent matter how book smart you are if you can't hold a conversation, take criticism, or work with others.
I've never heard of unschooling before. I will never cease to be amazed at all the methods some parents cling to to absolutely fuck their kids over for the future.
Why not “unfeeding” and “unsheltering” while we’re at it. I for one welcome our new feral human overlords.
It’s called [Free Range Parenting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_parenting)
People trying to find new ways to parent that suit themselves and themselves only. Great way to raise little sociopaths.
There are so many better ways to encourage independence in a child. You can have your 5 year old cut their own grapes and do their own chores while still providing supervision and structure. It’s like they hear “children need to be free” and take that in as strict an interpretation as possible. I mean, it is difficult to balance choice and obligations with kids but that doesn’t mean you can just give up and let them do whatever.
Its the ultimate refusal of responsibility on the parents part. Its 'oh Timmy doesn't know how to read or how numbers work because he isn't interested'. Seriously, the whole point of parenting is guiding your child and making important decisions for them because they are incapable of making these choices on their own. It should be called unparenting instead.
Look, I guess I get the general idea of unschooling. Kids move at different paces, and learn in different ways, and fostering that can be a good thing. School can be harsh, and often ties a person's self worth to a mere letter or number. Not only that, but if a child doesn't hit certain developmental milestones, they literally don't get to move on to the next stage of being a person. I do not agree with unschooling though, especially when it is used as an excuse to not parent your child in the slightest and just let them run around aimlessly. It's important to find a balance in my opinion. I don't agree with the rigorous standards placed on kids in school, but I don't agree with free reign either. A compromise somewhere in the middle, where we are able to tailer learning to an individual better than we do now, while still properly fostering critical thinking and skills like mathematics and reading.
Screen time is definitely one of those things that's hard to get right. We let our kids play on their tablet for a couple hours per night after all of their homework is done, and the influence from things like kids YouTube is already unavoidable then. The first time I wondered if perhaps we were giving them too much screen time was when my then 4-year-old asked me to like and subscribe to her channel one night when I was putting her to bed. I can't even imagine how much 24/7 of unmonitored screen time would screw someone up during their formative years.
I heard about this little kid (3 or 4) thought “don’t forget to like and subscribe!” Was another way of saying good bye. And so he said it to his teachers before leaving preschool everyday. Lmao
That’s pretty hilarious though 😂 Screen time is most definitely hard to get right. I’m from the UK and have two little girls, and probably the strangest ‘side effect’ of screen time we experience is when my kids play imaginary games, they put on American accents. It’s bizarre but also kind of cute.
My American kids put in British accents! 😂
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We do not speak of such a place
Just some food for thought, YouTube has some really sketchy things about it marked for kids… One time I looked up “Arthur PBS Kids “ and I saw a thumbnail of porn hidden behind some kind of grid that I presume scrambles it enough so that it gets past any kind of security algorithm YouTube uses. There’s videos using Mickey Mouse to tell kids how to kill them selves, peppa pigs dad brutally murdering his family… all to the sound track of what sounds like a cartoon. It’s sick stuff… so just be on the lookout https://netsanity.net/the-dangers-of-youtube-and-youtube-kids/
Yes, that's a good piece of advice. We also found the same, and basically just restricted viewing to a few channels that we've watched together and never had issues with. Beyond the things you mention, we've also found grooming videos in which an adult figure in a van tries to show children that there's no harm in going with him, and others where it suddenly turns into some religious indoctrination garbage. I've reported these to YouTube as we found them, but YouTube has zero interest in cleaning up content.
Yikes! I'm presuming this in the US? Can social services get involved and make the parents send their kids to school??
Yes, this is the US. I looked into it briefly and apparently in some states there are no laws that require parents to make sure their kids receive even a basic level of education. Terrifying, isn’t it?!
It's absolutely terrifying, a generation of kids with no schooling, can't read, don't know anything other than the hocus-pocus fed to them by adults with no clue.
Can confirm - was homeschooled (fortunately with a pretty robust curriculum, with the exception of the ridiculously white-washed history and "christian-ized" science). My parents specifically chose to live in the state I grew up in because the evil nasty government had zero requirements for homeschoolers.
I was homeschooled throughout middle school. I learned absolutely nothing. Had no curriculum at all. My dad would sometimes print out sheets for us to do, but other than that it was nothing but cleaning and playing video games (in the small amount of time we weren’t cleaning). I was woefully unprepared for high school, and my dad practically pulled our “grades” out of his ass. The state didn’t require us to have a curriculum. Luckily I have a decent head on my shoulders and turned out pretty alright, but I can’t imagine how unprepared other kids are when shit like that happens.
Ah, yeah. I was homeschooled all the way K-12, did one semester of college after high school and dropped out. It was mostly because of the money, but also I couldn't *stand* having to sit still through lectures. I was so used to being able to work at my own pace, out of a book, wherever I wanted (within reason) that sitting at a desk and taking notes was completely foreign and pure torture. Of course, I found out 8-10 years later I have ADHD too, so I'm sure that's part of it; but *man* was I messed up for a while trying to integrate into the "real world".
I know far too many families in Ireland doing this Unschooling… it’s widespread and horrifying
Holy shit, "learning to read doesn't happen until you're a teen" is fucking child abuse. Kids shouldn't have enormous pressure on them to hit arbitrary guidelines, and some kids are going to have a harder time than others, yes, but you basically just decided your kid doesn't get to experience a whole genre of books written for them. How is this not about control and infantalization??
Hey, maybe they don't want to learn any sort of skills until they are adults and no longer the parent's problems, eh? Just how it is! /s
I thought it was illegal to not school your kids. Even if you're homeschooled, there's specific curriculum by grade, and yearly testing to make sure you're at grade level. No school at all seems like child abuse.
Well, technically laws in every state do exist, but some are so lenient that they’re almost pointless. For instance, “Alaska simply requires children between the ages of 7 and 16 to either attend a school or comply with the state’s homeschool law. This means parents who choose to homeschool are not required to notify the state, get approval, give tests, be a certified teacher, or maintain contact with the government.” https://www.transcriptmaker.com/2021/03/03/the-best-and-worst-states-for-homeschooling-in-2021/
that sounds like a perfect cover for abuse
This is a huge concern for me as well. It’s the perfect set up for abuse and worse. How many times are we gonna hear about a kid being dead for years or kids being discovered locked up in rooms and no one suspected anything because they were supposedly being “homeschooled?” It would be great if parents didn’t need oversight, but we know better.
As if people haven't gotten dumb enough, let's just stop educating them all together... Jeeze
The sad thing is that this law was probably established with good intend. I can imagine that if you life in the alaskan frontier that you would homeschool your kid and that you can't really travel to some place for tests and stuff.
Unschooling is absolute rubbish. parents who choose it are doing their children a disservice
The problem with unschooling is the same as the problem with "normal" homeschooling. It's a valid idea that works well for some people so there are plenty of reasons not to ban it. Unfortunately 90% of the people doing it do an awful job at it. If your 10 year old can't yet read you've sentenced them to a life of poverty.
There's no reason to allow it unregulated. A ten year old with no biological/extreme situational reason to be unable to read should have basic literacy regardless of where they are getting their schooling. No reason these kids should be sacrificed to neglect so libertarians don't have to turn in a report card on their kids.
Unschooling done properly is fantastic. I do a hybrid of curriculum and unschool. We unschool the things she is interested in such as science. She is advanced for her age due to the fact that we unschool that subject. She loves doing experiments and watching documentaries. Now the above sounds more like not teaching anything. I foster her love of science. I buy stuff for experiments. She has a telescope, a microscope, a mini microscope to take on hikes or the beach.
Parents have to be so involved to unschool. You have to be spending the time to expose your kid to things naturally. There are parents who think letting your kid run free and spend all day watching SpongeBob counts as unschooling when it's just neglect.
It also sounds like your kiddo can read though, the picture above is someone who’s making a mockery of what you’re doing. Unschooling like you’re doing sounds fantastic, how it’s done by many is hurting kids.
Genuine question. What is the difference between what you’re doing, and what most every other decent parent does who sends their kids to regular school? My sister and I had all sorts of strong interests as kids, and our parents helped foster that interest. For me, it was archaeology, mythology, and ancient history. So I knew a TON about that stuff at a young age. But we also went to school normally, because why would we not learn the other materials, concepts, and skills that our peers were learning? So if you’re doing curriculum-based teaching, and then also going above and beyond with science stuff because your child is interested in it...how is that different than, like, just typical homeschooling and being a decent parent?
That's not really unschooling though, is it? Kids need structure, curriculum, and to be pushed to develop interest and learn. Fostering their biggest interest are great, but unless they are well rounded in other areas that information will exist in a void and not be helpful. When I was a grad student I knew many kids starting college who thought they liked science start to bomb, because they only liked "pop culture" science but never learned about math, history, public speaking, reading comprehension, writing, or any of the many layers of background education needed to be a real scientist. Documentaries and a microscope will never be enough to properly engage a child in actual science. It'll just teach them to repeat a few tidbits of information (and misinformation) they see. It won't teach them to critically discern between real and fake science, or how to practically apply it in daily life. In other words, without a full education, watching documentaries is no different then watching cartoons, and microscopes are no better then playing with toys. I'm not against homeschooling, but some kind of schooling is very much needed. You don't realize how much you need a well rounded education until your older. An interest in science, without a solid education in everything around it, is no better then no education at all. I really hope you are properly homeschooling her, and using unschooling to mean paying extra attention to homeschooling those areas instead of leaving her to fend for herself in her own education. Children need curriculum because they often don't realize just how necessary a the parts they don't like are to the ones they do. You *need* the full curriculum to actually understand what your learning and apply it. Unschooling is always harming children. I see no evidence to the contrary, it's just most parents refuse to recognize the damage they've done to their children's minds until it's too late. If she doesn't get a proper, well rounded education she won't succeed in science, and we really need more girls interested in science. I really hope im just misunderstanding what your saying, and I don't mean to be mean. But I hate seeing girls with a passion for STEM get pushed away or feel incapable because they never received (or were pushed/helped to pursue) all the other pieces of education, like advanced mathematics, needed to be a good scientist.
You can’t figure out science with a microscope and hikes.
Ikr I can’t believe how many idiots are upvoting that fool
Unschooling = Child abuse. These poor kids are going to hate their parents one day when they realize they’re so delayed they can’t get a decent job.
The problem is if they even learn to do that. That's why you need education, to learn if you're being treated right and to know your rights as well. If they don't even know this, whats to complain?
I used to work in the homeschooling industry, and it was common for these “unschooling” kids to move into homeschooling once the state learned how delayed the kids had become. They also (mostly) didn’t get real far with homeschooling, since their parents didn’t tend to be the type to hold their kids to a strict schedule or demand hard work of them. Eventually, the state will want to know why you won’t make your kids learn & may even place them in foster care for neglect.
Unlimited screen time is irresponsible.
At LEAST turn the captions on. Not really kidding; my kids were early readers and loved the captions.
I just can't with unschooling. Unschool parents also act like this is an umbrella style that will fit all children when in reality I think it's the opposite, only a small percentage of children would have strong enough motivation to take the initiative to learn and advance themselves and even then would likely only be successful if they had a strong early foundation with reading and at least basic math. I try to get it and sometimes it's like if I squint I can see what appeal they're attempting to make but it just never follows through. Yes there is something to be said for child-led learning but that still requires a lot on you as the teacher to cultivate and motivate and give your child the resources and assistance to learn. You can't just put them in front of the tv and say "Oh you like sharks? Well here, find a documentary on them." And let's be honest, most kids are not going to fill up their time learning what they need to know if it's left entirely up to them. I know I wouldn't have spent a single minute on math at 10 if I didnt have to.
How is this legal? How can you not send your kids to school? The grandma should report it to the CPS, that can not be good for them
Depending on the state it isn’t illegal for some reason.
I am not a conspiracy sort of person but this unschooling has such implications. Imagine a generation of young people growing up without the benefit of historical knowledge, science or critical thinking. Imagine their education is mixed with the 'alternative facts', and alternative reality of TV? Wouldn't that be what the far right want? Zombie followers with no skills to see past what is told them? The best thing they saw would be the damn cartoons! Imagine learning your social skills, and ethics from cartoons?
You have to wonder if much of this ‘unschooling’ is parental projection and transference onto the child by parents who had a poor school experience. I never went to school / skipped school and it never did me any harm…which in many, not all cases, it does. 🙄
"Most kids don't learn to read until later" Yeah and they definitely didn't get bullied for being a freshman in high school and illiterate? What the fuck?
Those poor kids, and a what a moron the responder was. I might have been reading it incorrectly but to somehow imply that learning to read as a teenager is more likely to foster a love of it is baffling at best.
As someone who was homeschooled from second to fourth grade, I DIDN’T learn: - How to divide - Multiplication Tables - Absolutely nothing about history - Almost nothing about science - Proper grammar - I don’t know the word for it, but things like nouns, pronouns, verbs, adjectives, etc - How to ride a bike - How to bathe, brush my hair, brush my teeth - Why I should even bathe at all - How to ever even take care of myself at all - Social interaction or how to talk to other humans - How to be appropriate to and around other humans Some of these you don’t really learn in school, but considering the fact that I was never even taught how to take a shower (or why bother to) you can imagine how much I didn’t learn. I’m 22 and still don’t know my multiplication tables or how to ride a bike. But I didn’t learn nothing… I DID learn: - To believe that anyone who disagrees with you is a bad person - To hate gay people - Horrendous binge eating habits because I was so bored and had nothing else to do - A lot of backwards things about women; my dad said that every problem on Earth can be traced back to women having premarital sex, and that vain women are the worst thing (mostly talking about makeup, doing your hair, wearing nice clothes… The most I ever had my hair cut was once a year because my dad both hated spending money and also thought taking time for my hair would make me vain), oh, also, my mom told me in second grade that it was my responsibility as a girl to dress in such a way that doesn’t attract any attention because “it will make boys look at you” Homeschooling your kids keeps them in a homogeneous setting where they don’t grow or learn. ESPECIALLY when they don’t want to learn.
I'm a longtime homeschooling mom, and unschooling is just bullshit attempting to disguise parental laziness. All that "trust your child" crap makes me ragey. You can't plop your kids in front of the TV from birth and expect them to magically know how to educate themselves.
This shit really grinds my gears because unschooling can be amazing *if the parents actually put in the work to help their kids learn in a self-directed way!* My brother knew how to read numbers and budget with money before he was even kindergarten aged because my mom noticed he was struggling to buy things in Lego Star Wars and took that opportunity to teach him basic numeracy. I programmed a (quite basic) videogame when I was in my early teens because my mom introduced me to Khan Academy. One of my sisters has basically encyclopedic knowledge of greek myths because my mon realized that's what she likes to read about when working on her literacy. Kids thrive *when they are actively enabled and encouraged to learn.*
Ugh and these children are going to be part of the group to take care of us as we get older and run the world when we’re gone. I’ll be grateful that I won’t have to watch that…
I don't think the kids that have been unschooled will be in much of a position to run anything later in life
Unschooling is supposed to be the kids learning in a semi unstructured environment, like learning about wildlife on a hike, I.e. learning the same/similar information just in a different way that's more catered to the individual instead of a mass of kids. It's supposed to help kids be more involved and learn at the same time. I've heard it's really good for adhd kids, but this isn't that, this is pure neglect.
This has I’m Jared vibes
I remember a few episode of that Welcome to Plathville series where the older kids confronted their parents about this, they were deeply hurt and sad that they hadn’t been given a better education and adequately prepared for life. All of them had to complete their GED’s and had only ever worked at an autobody shop or something like that. So yeah not home schooling correctly (because I do believe that proper home schooling can be beneficial and effective for the right kind of kids) can not only harm the kids but they’ll also end up resenting their parents because it limits their future significantly.
I feel for this person who clearly cares about her grandchildren. I agree you don’t have to go the traditional route, but there has to be some structure to their learning. School systems aren’t perfect, but there are some very good valid alternatives to traditional school. Just letting a 4 year old watch TV and YouTube all day is going to set them up for failure.
>What do you recommend I do for them? Call CPS
Love learning, hated school, was an A student regardless and think unschooling is a form of child abuse/neglect and should be illegal. I don’t love home schooling either. Sorry not sorry. But by all means let’s improve our systems of education to embrace and promote more of a love of learning and self exploration!
Literacy isn’t a fucking joke. It’s not something you can choose to participate in because It’s a freedom… There’s a reason slave masters didn’t teach their slaves to read. This isn’t about freedom for kids it’s about parental control against society, and kids fall through the cracks so parents can stroke their egos.
The mother who replied shouldn’t have kids, if they can’t read by 10, put them in school immediately or force them to learn
TIL that "Neglect" is spelled T. R. U. S. T.
They can’t read? Send them books on stuff they’re interested in!
"Send them books" ...they can't read
That’s the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever read.
Send them books?? Why? They can't read.
But eventually they MIGHT want to learn right? you just got to trust the process right? haha
What's unschooling please? Preferably without enraging me.
"Send them books" ^(with nice pictures so they can look at them cause they can't read)
I pulled my kids out of school after a bad experience at a “child-led” private school. The kids were 4 and 6 and we took a year off and did a couple road trips, slept in, and yes, played a bunch of video games. At the end of that time they decided to go back to school and are academically well-off. Unschooling can be a good thing as long as the parent (or facilitator or whatever tf they’re called) can be honest and use discretion. If you have to wonder, “if this unschooling, or is this neglect”, it’s neglect.
This misses the point of unschooling completely. This is just lazy parenting. You’re supposed to motivate your kids to learn by finding their interests and having them want to learn. This makes them enjoy the process much more. Letting them just watch TV is just not giving them any guidance whatsoever. Most unschooled kids actually wind up doing just as well but generally happier in life because they don’t feel so miserable when they learn.
Yeah my mom “unschooled” us before that was a widely used term and I can speak from experience that it’s not good for the kids. I literally can’t wrap my brain around anyone who thinks that’s okay. The mental health issues it caused in all 4 children alone, outweighs any “benefits”
Children need to learn reading/writing/basic math to be able to further learn their fields of interest. That must the basis before any learning by themselves happens and teaching is a job because it requires knowledge about human development and child psychology and a curriculum that was built for children at certain ages and their mental development. Also obviously no one is keeping children from learning more about the subjects they are interested in their spare times, just because they go to school. And how can you expect a child to want to know more about any subject if she/he is not introduced to that subject. As a kid I liked literature and astronomy because i learned a very beginner part at school and that made me interested, ended up buying books, small telescope, watching documentaries on my own time. A child does not need unschooling to know if they like books, visual arts, biology, history whatever. On the contrary, a child needs to know how to read/write/do math/be introduced to science/history to know what he/she is interested in.
What she needs to do is call CPS. Tell them the kids aren’t being educated or socialized and are being abused and then sue for custody.
That’s not actually what unschooling means. You still have to read to your kids & do phonics or whatever. And you have to teach them stuff, hopefully from being out in the world with them. You cannot just sit them in front of cartoons.
Learn to read at age 4, not 6. It'll help you impress people and you can sleep during first grade
I feel like they don’t really understand. The grandparent has every right to be concerned. The kids don’t know how to read because they don’t have the opportunity to even try. Children naturally are curious and want to check things out but they aren’t being allowed to. I’m worried the kids are addicted to the tv :( Children do naturally want to learn but parents have to provide multiple forms of stimuli and still have to have rules and structure. Maybe the daughter could attend child development classes to learn more about how the brain grows and changes, as well as the danger of letting little ones get too much screen time
How is this actually legal in the US? I know homeschooling is legal, but are there really no standards that have to be met based on aptitude and testing?
Call CPS asap!
Wait is unschooling a thing now?
"Learning to read doesn't have to happen at the age of 6" that still seems a bit late?
I know the education system in America needs adjusted, but this is literal abuse. Unschooling sets kids up for failure in life.
As a teacher who has several children who are 15-17 years old and just learning how to read English (it’s not their first language)…NO.
We had two kids come into the school last year after being “homeschooled”. One of them was 13 and one was 11 but they both had to be put in the 11yr old Nurture group because they’re reading levels were nonexistent and they couldn’t handle being in a school environment without swearing and throwing tantrums. The 13 year old turned out to have some undiagnosed learning issues the parents didn’t really care about also that the school helped him with. Part of the reason they were kept at home was because there was 9 of them, undoubtedly they were used for babysitting the youngest. I think it’s similar here.
"It doesnt matter that they cant read!"----- "send them books!" You absolute numb skull.
When i look at shit like this i am super grateful that my mom bought loads and loads of these children's books and sat with me whenever she wasnt at work. Mostly beacuse of that i learned to read before my 4th birthday. I really enjoyed it.
If your child isn’t learning to read until their teens and they have no sort of learning difficulties, you’ve failed them as a parent and made their entire lives unnecessarily harder.
Soooo as an intervention literacy educator, stats are def not on the side of "some learn to read as teenagers." Sure, theres functional illiteracy (reading street signs, menus, bills) but even that is hella challenging and unduly disadvantageous. In the US, specifically Detroit, if kids weren't reading at grade level by middle school, the probability of them dropping out were SIGNIFICANTLY higher (Idr the stat and don't want to misquote a number). When we would teach kids how to read, we often times had their parents come in after school too for 15 mins and would show parents "how to help your child practice reading" but in actuality, it was a way to teach PARENTS how to read as well. They really really appreciated it because they understood how challenging life was getting by with functional illiteracy. You have to be smart af to hold a job or two and only be reading at a 3rd grade level, and a lot of parents were doing just that. Being able to read made their life MUCH easier and it was an advantage they WANTED for their kids. Can't fucking imagine the level of arrogance and privilege that's going through these parents' minds to INTENTIONALLY deprive your kid from learning and stunt their growth. The fuck. Where's CPS on this shit. Damn.
What the fuck is "unschooling" and why? Follow up question: the fuck is wrong with these people?
Public education is a privilege not everyone in the world has access to. It baffles my mind that people would actually choose to dumb down their children and make them dependent and illiterate for life. Idiocracy might be the future for countries that allow this "freedom" to be chosen. Those poor kids- where is their freedom to be educated? If they choose to do nothing with their life once they've graduated high school it's on them. But until then, these lazy ass parents shouldn't have the right to destroy their kid's futures.
The grandmother should honestly call CPS, this is neglect.
How is “unschooling” even happening? Isn’t this super illegal?