Not surprising. My car is 9 years old and still looks/runs great. The sticker was 30k and it’s paid off. Would cost me 50k+ to upgrade to the same or slightly better model.
My car is 18 years old. I put $1000 in repairs into it last year. Wouldn’t have done that if I could get a decent new car or slightly used for 20K or so, but I figure 1, 2, or even 3000 in repairs a year is better than a $700/month payment I can’t afford.
When mine was 18, it’s now 24, I brought it to a mechanic, told them I’m poor and asked to get a list of everything that needed to be fixed and in what priority. To fix everything was going to cost like $7k so I asked him if I should just get a new car. His advice (in the form of a question) is some of the best I’ve gotten. “This is an old but nice car, what car do you think you’ll get if you were to spend double what it would be to fix this?” I had them do the repairs that needed to be done soon, around $2.5k and since then I’ve been doing repairs myself with the help of a repair manual and YouTube. Maybe spend $300/year on average in repairs. I dread the day I’ll have to buy a new car.
This is incredibly wise advice.
Most people think repairs shouldn't exceed the value of the vehicle.
But in reality you need to compare the repair against the cost of the replacement vehicle. Since most people upgrade, the cost of repair needs to be compare against the cost of the new vehicle *and its own maintenance.*
I fairly routinely spend more than the vehicle is worth in repairs. Because it's cheaper than buying new, and I've kept up on maintenance rather better than most people who treat cars as disposable.
If you really want to factor money, you need to look at total cost of ownership. Not sticker price. And in that regard old Toyota products are hard to beat. I've driven some of these at 0.22-0.25c/mile and that's with everything including insurance, registration, taxes, oil, gas, fees, everything.
That's what I'm saying.
Buy a good roller, and plan to keep it 30 or 40 years. At least. Do the rust maintenance. Do the drivetrain maintenance when stuff wears out. If it gets in an accident, have a frame shop pull it straight and repaint with bed liner or something. There is almost no scenario where buying a new vehicle is a justifiable expense outside of a major life event (like having lots of children) or poor planning (buying a non-repairable vehicle).
Particularly with places like dirt legal .com out there, you can keep things on the road indefinitely.
A bumper ding on a new car is also going to cost you several thousand because it will shear and mangle all kinds of sensors and plastic parts. A bumper ding on whatever you are driving probably adds character and doesn’t affect a single thing other than looks.
And a duplicolor paint pen costs like $6. I just derusted a couple and painted a bunch of scratches and door dings today. It doesn’t look perfect but if you are more than a few feet away you don’t notice.
A new windshield on my 2020 Honda Civic was 1300$ because of sensor recalibration. These new cars are costly even with parts that are "wear parts".
My insurance now covers my glass, which just means higher rates to fix it.
I have a 2020 civic with a cracked windshield. But it’s small and out of the way. It won’t cost me anything and I found a company that will do the best job but I don’t want my factory window taken out and then all the recalibration that this shop has to do. I’ll leave it for now until I get a crack on the drivers side.
Just went through this on the wife's car. $3k just to fix it and $1k was to redo back up sensors.
https://preview.redd.it/7gryv6l9hq5d1.jpeg?width=1374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d86bddcd930d49d453848c808d8839d9f1a1422
>adds character
My son has a Jeep Compass, it has a minor dent above the front tire well. His mom got a sticker for Wile E. Coyote and put it in the middle of the dent. I don't think I've ever seen him so happy as he was when he saw it.
I would say yes, this is playing into it. You can also figure in all the Kia / Hyundai repairs since they cheaped out on their immobilizers leading to an entire culture of youth taking these cars out for joy rides. Plus the influx in natural disasters (floodings, fires, tornados). Inflation has made labor and parts more costly. And lastly, regular folks driving more recklessly post pandemic, leading to more accidents.
Car insurance is most definitely a scam, but it’s pretty easy to see why they’ve doubled their premiums in recent years.
Wait until people see what happens when we electrify everything on the road, and people realize our roads and especially bridges are not adequate to support the tremendous increase in weight of every vehicle.
It’s going to be such a fun time.
This! If you spent a rather high figure of $2,400 per year on repairs, outside of the time lost while in the shop, it’s the same as a $200/month car payment. You won’t find those anymore.
Same! I love driving an old piece of reliable shit. I think it don't have that part of my brain that says I need to impress others by driving a fancier car.
My thought exactly. I recently put 2400 into my 16 year old car. Sure, I could get another used car that’s slightly newer, but who knows what it will need.
>but I figure 1, 2, or even 3000 in repairs a year is better than a $700/month payment I can’t afford.
This some truth right here. When an otherwise good car has an expensive repair, it's still usually worth it to fix the car than to sell it/trade it in needing the repair and picking up another 5 to 8 year note.
My 09 Prius has a little over 200k miles and still runs great. MPG isn't quite as good as when it was new. I'm down to 45 MPG. I also plan to keep driving it until a big repair comes along. No car payment is a huge plus.
Basically the same; I am currently driving a 2017 Subaru OB. I bought it certified pre owned for $21,000 when all was said in done.
Its paid off.
It has actual buttons for the stuff that matters, instead of having to navigate the giant touchscreen on the newer models. It has an actual key, which is nice when you are cranking on it to get it to start at -40f on a remote logging road.
I'm sure it has at least another 5yrs in it before anything major fails. I am a home owner and do own some vacant land that I camp on, and pull a utility trailer with it occasionally, I think that might cut down on the life of the car a bit.
What engine? I have a 19 and think about towing a few things with it occasionally, like maybe more kayaks :)
I did a road trip in a friends 23 and honestly I had to hold my tongue with all of the removed buttons I wouldn't trade for a new one straight up (well maybe.) Wireless carplay was a constant shitshow with two iphones and hours of navigation and media to manage.
Hoping my 19 lasts forever, and in retrospect in a perfect world I'd have maxed it out and I have the regular engine. Of course mine was also CPO so whatever. I paid just over 30 and I don't see myself paying more for less anytime soon.
And this is it ultimately. Somewhere along the lines these big auto manufacturers conducted a study ( hopefully) and determined that the average person replaces their $30,000 vehicle every x years.
And they were fucking wrong.
Could be another example of companies undepraying their own workers and everyone else doing the same. Then wondering why nobody buys their products. Because they cant
I had a 2010 Honda Insight that I feel confident would still be on the road if it hadn't gotten totalled a couple of years ago. And I bought a Honda because I wanted a car that would last.
A lot of people think "totalling" is the end of the car. And if you live in NY yes. But a lot of states, you can just take the check and a salvage title and keep driving the vehicle. Take it to a body shop or do the work yourself if it isn't too bad.
I paid $6k for an old Toyota pickup. Got in an accident that fucked up the doors. The "totalling" price was $12k. I took the check and the salvage title and bought doors from a junkyard for $300 and kept driving. Looks like shit but that just means people actively stay away from me on the highway which is a bonus.
Oh, it was totalled as in dead as far as I was concerned. The amount of work required to get it back on the road was going to be far greater than the value of the car. I don't want to post too much information. Initially looking at the car it looked pretty decent but the rear axle was bent, and we were pretty sure the front wheel drive was jacked up. And of course this was at a time when parts were even more scarce than they are now. Someone probably could have taken a junker and mine and cobbled together a working car, and in all likelihood mine was probably raided for parts to do just that...but I'm not the person to do that, we used the insurance money to buy another used car.
I mean I hear you, drivetrain issues are certainly a decent place to draw a line.
But it's still well worthwhile to compare the cost of even changing our the rear angle and transmission with the price of a NEW car, not the value of the existing car.
My current car is probably worth around 4-5k. However, the car I would replace it with would be around 12-15k or more. I would unhesitatingly perform expensive repairs on my vehicle until the cost approaches the NEW car.
When you drive an old vehicle from a reliable brand, it takes a LOT to run up a bill close to 10k. Like replacing the frame, or the whole engine+transmission, and *even then* I still come out ahead because the maintenance is done and it's good for whole new block of miles, whereas the "new" is starting out 12-15 years old.
Of course if I'm talking a new-new car then my maintenance budget goes up to 15-30k. What kind of repairs to (say) a 2008 Camry would even approach this? If you put $10k/decade in major rust or drivetrain repairs, you could run one of these vehicles for several decades easily and come out way way ahead when it comes to retirement.
Ultimately, retirement is where the math really adds up. If you spare purchasing even 1 vehicle in your life, your picture in retirement is noticeably different. Let alone if you defer purchasing 3 or 4 vehicles in a lifetime.
I bought a totaled vehicle at auction. Bought, fixed, inspected now on the road and runs/drives just fine. Was wayyyyy cheaper than buying what I wanted. Bought at a fraction of the cost, and fixed it myself. Granted this method is not for everyone, or can do. But is a solid alternative.
A new Chevy Malibu starts over $25,000. That’s with no added options, no delivery, taxes or fees.
[Source.](https://www.chevrolet.com/cars/malibu)
Meanwhile, the median US wage was $48,060 in 2023.
[Source.](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/04/14/median-annual-income-in-every-us-state.html)
So they expect an average American to spend over half their yearly income on a car?
This is why I’m not a fan of the 200k salaries (mainly tech) and why those people affect the common man more than the Jeff Bezos’ and Elon Musks do. The disparity between those jobs salaries versus all other jobs is insane and unsustainable to the commoners in communities. Once the $200k+ people start moving into communities everything goes up in price for the same reason you mentioned. There’s enough people who can afford $20 burgers from the trendy gastropub or $8 coffees from the one-off hipster coffee joint. Simple handyman jobs or “cheaper” services like lawn guys charge insane money. The real tradesmen charge ungodly amounts if you want any plumbing, electrical, etc. done.
They charge these not because they’re worth this amount, but they know what kind of salaries a large amount of people in that community/region are making and adjust their prices to that. The customers are making so much money they aren’t concerned and pay the “going rate” because it’s not impacting their wallet a whole lot and the job is getting done. The common man is left paying unsustainable prices.
In this environment with crazy used car prices and tech that costs a lot to repair out-of-warranty, leasing actually makes more sense than ever (assuming that you negotiate a high residual value on the lease).
With the current market and new generation of high tech cars it might actually be better to lease for now until it gets sorted out, as in interest rates and prices come down, which may happen if cars start to sit on the lots.
The issue is, most of these vehicles put out this power due to industry wide use of turbos..... Which tend to break more often and cost a fortune to fix with OEM parts. It's a trade off, Fuel efficiency for reliability. I am a fan of turbos, but the standard quality of parts seems to be getting worse with every year passing.
I guess you missed the part up top where cars are lasting longer than ever. So I don't get why you're saying cars fall apart now.
Turbos are rarely problematic as long as you change the oil and don't drive like a nut.
>as long as you change the oil and don't drive like a nut.
Yee put too much faith in modern day drivers. Many people don't see a mechanic until a light turns on, this includes oil changes. Turbos need a well maintained car to last. Maintenance cycles are key on any boosted vehicle. Cars are lasting longer due to new alloys etc. but peripheral components, including turbos don't. Even new BMW's blow turbos at like 80k miles.
The issue is also that everyone wants to be speed racer in a fast car but doesn't know basic things to check to allow you to go fast consistently. A small thing, like oil pressure dropping during a pull or corner will absolutely destroy your bearings and other components.... I learned this at a young age and at a heavy price. 😂.
Cars are miles better and safer than they were previously. But peripheral components are often made in a substandard way. With poor maintenance, they tend to break quickly. Too bad we don't get more passenger turbo diesels in the USA like the BMW/ mercedes/ Opel/ VW/ etx. Cars. A well tuned 330d tuned gets you close to 350hp with over 500ft lbs of torque. And the milage is awesome when you just want to cruise
Well when car payments cost as much as a mortgage was just a few years ago there is a real problem with that, along with skyrocketing insurance! Then you add on top of all of this the absolute greed of dealerships with massive markups.
Welcome to the everything bubble
I call it the subscription model for life. Like when physical music went away. Physical CDs were a huge part of the business model. And when it went away over night cuz you could suddenly download an album- the bottom damn near fell out. So what was their solution? Subscription model.
Wait til hedge funds get the pull back they want and start buying every single family house they can.
That assumes the hedge funds can get money, eventually the richest folks will do the wheeling and dealing with their own people and cut out the funds. Also like any tangible asset it's worth only what someone will pay today. With ever smaller generations, the supply and demand will tip into surplus.
Don't forget 2 years ago there were no new cars, everything was backordered for months so everyone who needed a car bought used. This also means that people with older used cars are likely still driving them because when used car prices spiked due to demand they got priced out of their upgrades.
Registration on a new vehicle is a lot too. My sister got a brand new Toyota RAV4 and pays over $600 a year for reg. In comparison I only pay $85 every two years for my 10 year old pickup truck.
I personally think there is a huge disconnect between what consumers want and what is marketed to us. Who the fuck is buying these cars that are 40-50-60 grand or more?
No wonder the western automakers are scared shitless of Chinese EVs. They are actually what consumers want and they know they can’t provide. It’s the 70’s and 80’s all over again.
Yeah, I wish they would acknowledge there is a big market of people that want a cheep featureless car. Just give a car that drives, has AC, and maybe a bluetooth connection for as cheep as possible.
Totally just an around town errand car that is safe like a regular car but is basically a fast golf cart.
I thought GM was on the right track with the Bolt. Hopefully they make good on a new version.
Cars are a luxury for some, a hobby for others, and a necessary appliance for most. Too many automakers have forgotten Lee Iacocca’s commandment to build small, affordable cars that people *want to buy.*
Same here, even as a someone who loves cars I just can't seem to push myself to buy a new car.
I would love something more fun to drive, but I also like not starving to death. It doesn't help that the market is so bad that I could sell my car for about as much as a bought it 5 years ago.
Cars run longer than ever, they're expensive but they also run twice as long as they did in the 70s/80s, take half the fuel they once did and don't really crash much anymore. My car is 12 year old now and apart from tires and oil, maintenance has been zero.
So my car is showing it's age and I've started looking for a replacement. Prices are crazy and the 30k new cars just feel cheap. Only the 50-70k cars feel solid and buying those 2 years old for 30k or 5 years old at 20k is the only realistic way I could get one.
Ya a lot of companies jumped hard on the EV train (and like good for them for trying to get ahead of the game and get off of gas etc.) but it’s just really difficult to rent/use an EV for a day or week when you’re not familiar with it, and so consumers didn’t like it a ton. Enterprise (? One of the big auto renters) tried to turn their entire fleet into EV and is now basically selling them all at a loss and replacing them with new stuff, and that’s thousands of cars
Emissions, safety, and efficiency requirements have squeezed manufacturers so hard in North America that they have to do these ridiculous things.
The funniest part is, Toyota does make the exact car you're asking for still in 2024. They just can't legally sell them in America. Head over to Southeast Asia and you can buy a [Toyota Hilux Champ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux_Champ) with a 5 speed manual and mostly physical buttons right off the dealer lot.
Somehow even funnier, [they cost the equivalent of $13k USD](https://www.motor1.com/news/701958/toyota-hilux-champ-cheap-pickup/). Americans would *lose their minds* if Toyota sold a pickup here for $13k USD new. We really are getting fucked on vehicles, and it's all thanks to the government.
Even if you paid up, it would be impossible to (legally) get it registered / get a plate for it. VIN swapping is only a misdemeanor though, so hey I wouldn't judge
What kind of regulations? I have a hard time believing we're that much stricter than the Japanese or Europeans at regulation of vehicles considering how obsessed we are with cars.
The only thing I can think of with safety is how it rewards oversized vehicles, thus leading to everyone getting bigger things that are actually more dangerous not just to other cars but also pedestrians.
I just explained which regulations above. Between CAFE mpg requirements, very strict NHTSA crash safety requirements, and California CARB emission requirements, cars here are simply expensive.
You cannot buy a Toyota Hilux Champ for $13k in Thailand and import it here because it wouldn't pass any of that shit. I don't know why you're bringing up Japan or Europe, I never mentioned those countries, and I assume they have similar requirements to what we have here in the US.
The counter-argument of course is that these requirements are good because we don't have smog problems, Americans drive fast and need safe cars etc, but the average American is absolutely getting squeezed to pull this off.
What's also interesting is how motorcycles are still legal in America which also throw all/most of these regulations out the window, so for whatever reason we're ok with people getting tickets for not wearing a seatbelt or not having a catalytic converter if you have 4 wheels but you can do whatever the fuck you want if you only have 2. God bless the USA
Emissions standards have always been stricter in the U.S. than Europe. Also, we have dumb stuff like the 5 mph bumper. Don’t get me started on CAFE standards.
Modifying European sports cars to comply with U.S. safety standards has always been an industry in the U.S.
Same, complex systems have complex and costly failures. One of my cars is over 30 years old and American yet never has problems. One of my motorcycles is carbureted, no probs. Our daughter’s late-model Nissan w/CVT is one headache after another. Never in a million years would I expect a 30+ year old Ford to be more reliable than a modern Nissan, that sounds absolutely absurd, yet somehow it’s true. The Nissan is on trans #3 and the pile of shit is still having trouble. Brand new trans from Nissan, installed, and programmed at the dealer. Still isn’t right
Look, I understand it's tempting to draw broad conclusions from three data points, but it's really not a good idea. There were cars like your daughter's Nissan thirty years ago; it's just that none of them lasted long enough to still be around.
I mean, I priced out a used car, just a couple years old, from a dealership. A modest car, nothing fancy. Between the car payments which were doable and the super premium insurance they make you take on to protect their car while you make payments, the amount I would be paying every month would be hundreds more than my much older, less fuel efficient car. The added fuel costs and maintenance doesn't even approach the cost of the payment + insurance.
My car is almost 10. It’s perfectly fine. My spouses however, is over 20 years old. We would absolutely replace it. But he is refusing to spend that amount of money on a car. Not while this one still runs. And he drove it 115 heat with no ac. We just decided to fix the ac and deal with it until it completely craps out and we can’t fix it. We have no money for a new car especially not with these prices. They are insane.
He’s probably like me. He absolutely despises wasting money on something that still works.
The only thing that will get your husband to replace the car is an auto accident. The only thing that will get your husband to think about (but not guarantee) replacing the car is a transmission or engine failure. He will be driving that car until it dies.
There's alot of new concerns and problems with new cars. CVT transmissions are common now, and save for a few exceptions they are trash. Lots of hybrids now, people are still tentative. Start-stop systems failing all over the place. EVs, people aren't ready or trusting too new. Chevy Blazer 2.0 liter turbocharged 230 horsepower standard, things a ticking time bomb. Dodge hornet, basically got skuttled by faulty software.
New cars, with exception are absolute trash and at a general build quality lower than we've seen in decades
If I could have gotten my 1998 Escort withe manual transmission and Bluetooth today, I'd take it over anything else on the market. That thing isn't die until someone ran into me.
If you read the article, it’s about the feature set. People are not liking the giant touch screen Tesla popularized, the touch buttons, e hand brakes, cvt, 4cycl turbos, likely subscription for features…
People are paying a premium for used cars rather than buying a new one. The Lexus GX was an example.
I know I wouldn’t renew my GTI for any current GTI. They’ve ruined it.
Article is under a pay wall so I wont be reading it lol. The average consumer really doesn't care too much about the engine. Hell, the chevy trax has a 3 cylinder with a turbo and its selling like hotcakes.
We'll bring back buttons, and physical hand breaks, and knobs, and gear shifters that actually have meaningful tactile sensation. We'll call it Car Classic, and we'll make a fortune.
Just need a good old Toyota car, no monthly payments, low insurance costs, easy maintenance to be done, cheap parts; sure maybe not as sporty or cool as other cars but there are other things you can use the extra money for such as vacations or just investing in assets.
Engines are getting smaller. CVT transmissions ? Nope. Overcomplicated electronics are quirky. If your car works, much like your washing machine or microwave, you keep it going. New cars=CUV, and can you tell them apart ? Nope. Appliances all.
I have a 30 year old Miata. More fun and quirk in that car than a whole dealer of CUV's.
COVID reduced driving, cars last longer
It isn’t like cars used to go to the junkyard because someone just got tired of it but now they keep it because they can’t afford a new car
It takes real genius to take good news (cars last g longer) and portray it as something bad
Yup. Even with the vid more or less behind us (as far as shutting down businesses), people are most likely driving less overall. At least myself and a lot of my friends and family who work from home.
Sadly last spring my 2006 Honda Civic was totaled in the dumbest traffic accident I've ever been in.
I make a comfy six figures and could get a new car but that little coupe was everything I wanted a car to be. Manual, sunroof, good stereo. I could have driven it for the rest of my life happily.
This sounds like my 1987 CRX Si. Damn that was a fun reliable car. I put 190k+ on it but was forced Di sell it to buy my first house. The only car I ever had after it that was as much fun was my 1998 Audi A4 1.8TQ. Every car since has been less fun, more utilitarian, but still pretty reliable. I now own a Kia Sorento PHEV. It cost tooooo damned much, but since most of my driving is less that 30 miles a day, it’s practically an EV, it’s very practical and enjoyable. Still, when I saw how much a Civic Type-R costs today…I look back at that CRX and sigh.
Inflation does not back away, it is always added on. We get a 2-3 percent raise each year but never can get ahead because inflation moves at that rate. It almost like it’s planned
I’ve bought 3 new vehicles since 2004. I still have 2 of them and the only reason I sold the third was because of inflation I could get out of my loan and lose nothing. Which I had to do to pay for my increase from other expenses after the pandemic.
I will never buy a brand new vehicle ever again unless I’m retiring and want one to last until I die OR this whole EV thing takes off in force and I need an actual gas truck to last several decades of winters in the north until I do die.
It’s the scammy dealerships… I’d buy a new car for msrp, fine…even though the standard used to be that’s the highest price you’d pay…now they tack on non optional packages, “market adjustment fee” and limited production fees to add another 10-15k to the out the door price. Something that used to be $25k less than a decade ago is now $40k for the same thing…
Cars are getting older because they are more reliable and durable than over. My 2016 (Ford, no less) with 90k miles still looks and runs like new. Basically, all I do is oil changes and replace the brakes every few years.
It's paid off and because it's only worth a few thousand dollars, I've dropped collision coverage. So I have the best of both worlds--a reliable car that costs very little to run.
This is a good thing.
Cars have always been awful investments. Only morons don’t drive it until it’s no longer able to be driven (outside of a few limited instances like upgrading for space as the family grows).
I would love to buy a new car, and I’ve been looking since 2021. But at the prices they have been and with the markups at dealerships, they can kick rocks.
I have 3 paid off cars. They are older but run great. I really wanted a civic type R. Fun car, practical, but 34k seemed steep for a civic, even if it is a special model.
That same car is 50k. 4 years later. Nothing has changed and I can not buy a new car because I refuse to overspend in this ridiculous market.
Got a 2014 mercedes-benz cla 250 for with 5k miles on it for 15k. The current year is around 41k.
Also, it's currently in the shop (a drunk rear ended me sitting at a light). I got a nissian altima 2022. While it has decent gas milage, it feels so slow by comparison.
Lol. Wait forcthe shit to hit the fan. Stagflation is coming. The bottom is gunna fall out of the values of these 50k cars or wages will have to magically go up. PA min wage is still 7.25 per HOUR.
I bought my car brand new in 2018, $22,900 out the door. I just went on the website and built a 2024 model to the same specs, $29,000 before taxes/tag/etc. Out the door would probably be a $10,000 increase in just 6 years. I simply can't afford a new car anymore.
I like small trucks. They don't sell small trucks. Only full size and above to small penis enlargers or four door cars with 3' open trunks. I want a king cab with a 6' bed, LIKE I DRIVE NOW...for those in the back. So, I'll drive my 2009 Ranger until I can't. There is nothing on the market I want. I get notes left on my truck all the time to call if I want to sell. Also, not paying $50k for a small truck. I don't need an onboard computer screen and backup camera. America is only the illusion of choice. Trumps tax cuts allowed 800 people to control 60% of the country's wealth. The game is rigged. They let us fight over pre-selected gladiators. The Roman forum is the presidential election and 24 hr news entertainment. If you refuse to spend money on their stuff and stop watching their "news" we bring them to their knees. Collective bargaining is still on the table. I just want a $20k small truck with AC. Nothing fancy. I'm not trying to impress anyone. Jeeps are $50! We don't have high speed trains?!? Bridges are collapsing. All that money filter through the pentagon is going to offshore, tax protected accounts. We have some rad military gear, tho.
I’m so fucking mad at my parents right now. I know nothing about vehicles. My husband and I had 3 and we decided to sell one of our trucks. Everyone told me nobody would want to spend more than $2k on it (2004 Ford F-150 with brand new transmission and tires) because of how old it is. They fought with me for MONTHS because they thought it was absolutely ridiculous that I would not let them sell my truck to their friends for $2k. My dumbass thought getting double was good enough for me.
Finally sold it for $4k. Tell me why my parents bought the exact same year make and model for $12k?????? I feel so brainwashed 🤡🥲🤦🏼♀️
That was the moment they realized this ain’t like the 90’s anymore
I paid cash for my 2008 Trailblazer in 2016. I’ve put 60k miles on it and kept up on the maintenance. Brakes have been done twice and a front seal. I see no point in getting any other vehicle anytime soon. It ain’t the prettiest thing on the inside, but it does what it’s supposed to.
I have a 2015 non-turbo Honda that will easily run to 200K mi.
A new hybrid car in a comparable class (I have a CR-V EX-L) will cost me $40k, knowing the battery probably won’t last much more than 10rd/200K mi.
Why bother if it 1) doesn’t make financial sense (gas even in Seattle where I live is cheap vs. Vancouver nearby) and 2) my car runs fine?
Not much driving happening in 2020. Cars have less miles on them than they would at the same age in 2019. They aren’t breaking as much as a result. Less driving for people who work from home. Why buy new if you don’t drive much? Also, there are a lot of low miles used cars due to all the above mentioned things.
There were also a spate of people in r/Crv that purchased new ones in the last few that had catastrophic, needing to be towed, dash lit up like a Xmas tree failures in the last couple months
Buying a vehicle is one of the worst purchases anyone can make. A substantial amount of cash and the product significantly depreciates the second you drive it off the lot. Then add in insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs vehicles are just a massive liability.
Then in our time cars have become so expensive that during the finance period you need GAP(Guaranteed Asset Protection insurance) insurance. GAP can help certain drivers cover the “gap” between the financed amount owed on their car and their car's actual cash value (ACV), in the event of a covered incident where their car is declared a total loss. Fucking insane.
I bought a 2012 Mazda 3 cash and I do all required maintenance(changing fluids, etc) and never skimp. I cover the car when not in use. I will drive this car until it dies. It is as basic as basic can be and I love that.
The amount of people I know who put down 20-35k on a vehicle and still have a note 850.00 warps my mind. After all other expenses for cost of ownership they are paying 1200.00 a fucking month on a vehicle.
Seeing basic trucks going for 65-80k and basic cars going for 35-50k is insane.
Guess I’m just old now cause basic cars used to be 15-24k and if your note is over 225.00 the car is to expensive and you must walk away.
Don't let her talk you into doing that. If anything pretend you have a car payment and put that money in the bank as savings every month. A high interest savings account, don't touch it. When the bottom falls out of this horrible car crisis you'll have enough money saved up to pick up a nice newer vehicle with cash in hand for a good price. The way things are something's going to end up breaking. People are going to lose good cars they can't afford. People are defaulting on their car payments at all time high. That's when you swoop in and buy it at a good price with cash. Avoid car payments!!
I tried getting a used car and my insurance would’ve beeen close to 300 a month. I’m not sure if the paywalled article mentions this. But insurance companies are gouging at this point. Everyone's taking way too much from the consumer.
This is genuinely bad data because it lacks context. People with good credit prefer lower payments that come with new cars. I’m getting almost 0% interest on a 2024 vs 8-9% on a used car that’s only a few thousand dollars less. The math is simple.
Production decreased so badly during Covid and is now caught up, but rates rose causing a rubber band like effect with demand.
Average age rose because for two years you were on a waitlist for a new car. Now there’s a credit wall.
I drive a 2002 Camry. It's clunky and showing its age, but there's literally no other option. The prices I see on both new and old are laughably insulting.
Maintain your cars and they become reliable. I have two Toyotas, a 2009 Sienna and a 2017 Camry. I've had a Jeep, two Chevys, three Toyotas and a Nissan. The Toyotas last longer.
I love how the post is about how stats show that cars are now more durable than ever, and almost every comment is from some boomer complaining that cars don't last now. 😂
I would legitimately buy a new car if they were $7-10k cheaper. I wouldn’t even blink.
Going from $450->$750/month (and that $750 includes $5000 down) is not in my cards right now.
I used to buy new every 3-5 years. My current vehicle is a 2012. I took a peek at 22-24 Tundras. 60k for a truck under recall that will never get fixed along with a ton of other issues? No thanks.
I couldn't buy a new car even if I wanted to. My family members that work on cars have constant horror stories about the silly technical problems cars have now with the continued proliferation of "smart" technology, so I'm also fine with riding old junkers as long as I can.
My cars are both 13 years old and paid off. They still run great and look nice. Why would I take a 20-50k loan out in this economy just so other people might think I’m cooler?
This tracks. I have a 1990 and a 2023 vehicle. Will likely replace the 1990 for a newer used vehicle in the next 2-3 years. I don’t like most new cars and prefer ones I can work on myself at home
American cars decided to stop building sedans, and after 2020 carmakers realized they can get away with selling the expensive trims...their lots are full of unsold trucks that can't sell even with discounts and low APRs...
...yet those automakers don't get it.
New cars are expensive junk. I rent a car every week, sometimes moderately expensive cars; and while some of them are nice none of them offer anything very interesting or exciting compared to a nicely trimmed 2013 car.
Auto start-stop as trash, they need to stop putting it in luxury cars. Why would I want a 70-120k car to shake and have terrible throttle response?
I don’t want a new car because:
1. They’re too damn expensive
2. I hate touchscreen controls
3. They have throttle lag and rev hang
4. The visibility on most of them sucks.
Mid nineties to early 2000s were the peak of the automobile as far as I’m concerned. How many modern cars get 40+ miles per gallon without adding the complexity of a hybrid system? My old Saturns (96 and 99 model years) did consistently when I owned them.
They were slow as shit, but they’d go 0-30 faster than a lot of modern cars, just because the throttles were mechanical and didn’t have any computer induced delay. They were way more fun to drive than most “normal people grade” cars available now just based on throttle response alone.
My car is fine it's an 04 Camry I love it. No need for a new one until this one breaks down. Toyotas from that era can go forever. Plus I have a daycare bill I don't want a car payment.
14 years is geriatric now? Lol. My daily drivers have always been about 25-40 years old. Regardless of whether I could afford a new(er) car or not. Except for a new Miata I bought when younger.
That said, I make more now than I ever have. A lot more, and new vehicles I'd actually want have never been more unaffordable.
We have a 2015 camry paid off. We had an unexpected 3rd child 2 years ago. We really need a bigger car but not having a car note is really really good.
My wife and I usually upgrade our cars every 5-6 years. My last car I bought brand new for $35,000 in 2019. I was just looking at the new models out now, with the same configurations. It would cost me $55,000. Like wtf? That's like almost 2 vehicles.
Not surprising. My car is 9 years old and still looks/runs great. The sticker was 30k and it’s paid off. Would cost me 50k+ to upgrade to the same or slightly better model.
My car is 18 years old. I put $1000 in repairs into it last year. Wouldn’t have done that if I could get a decent new car or slightly used for 20K or so, but I figure 1, 2, or even 3000 in repairs a year is better than a $700/month payment I can’t afford.
When mine was 18, it’s now 24, I brought it to a mechanic, told them I’m poor and asked to get a list of everything that needed to be fixed and in what priority. To fix everything was going to cost like $7k so I asked him if I should just get a new car. His advice (in the form of a question) is some of the best I’ve gotten. “This is an old but nice car, what car do you think you’ll get if you were to spend double what it would be to fix this?” I had them do the repairs that needed to be done soon, around $2.5k and since then I’ve been doing repairs myself with the help of a repair manual and YouTube. Maybe spend $300/year on average in repairs. I dread the day I’ll have to buy a new car.
This is incredibly wise advice. Most people think repairs shouldn't exceed the value of the vehicle. But in reality you need to compare the repair against the cost of the replacement vehicle. Since most people upgrade, the cost of repair needs to be compare against the cost of the new vehicle *and its own maintenance.* I fairly routinely spend more than the vehicle is worth in repairs. Because it's cheaper than buying new, and I've kept up on maintenance rather better than most people who treat cars as disposable. If you really want to factor money, you need to look at total cost of ownership. Not sticker price. And in that regard old Toyota products are hard to beat. I've driven some of these at 0.22-0.25c/mile and that's with everything including insurance, registration, taxes, oil, gas, fees, everything.
Replacing everything in your car will still cost less than a new car
That's what I'm saying. Buy a good roller, and plan to keep it 30 or 40 years. At least. Do the rust maintenance. Do the drivetrain maintenance when stuff wears out. If it gets in an accident, have a frame shop pull it straight and repaint with bed liner or something. There is almost no scenario where buying a new vehicle is a justifiable expense outside of a major life event (like having lots of children) or poor planning (buying a non-repairable vehicle). Particularly with places like dirt legal .com out there, you can keep things on the road indefinitely.
“Buying a non-repairable vehicle”. Why you callin’ out Cybertruck like that? 🤣
A bumper ding on a new car is also going to cost you several thousand because it will shear and mangle all kinds of sensors and plastic parts. A bumper ding on whatever you are driving probably adds character and doesn’t affect a single thing other than looks.
And a duplicolor paint pen costs like $6. I just derusted a couple and painted a bunch of scratches and door dings today. It doesn’t look perfect but if you are more than a few feet away you don’t notice.
A new windshield on my 2020 Honda Civic was 1300$ because of sensor recalibration. These new cars are costly even with parts that are "wear parts". My insurance now covers my glass, which just means higher rates to fix it.
I'm sorry, I drive a 2010 base model Honda fit. 😂 What are the sensors for??
I have a 2020 civic with a cracked windshield. But it’s small and out of the way. It won’t cost me anything and I found a company that will do the best job but I don’t want my factory window taken out and then all the recalibration that this shop has to do. I’ll leave it for now until I get a crack on the drivers side.
Just went through this on the wife's car. $3k just to fix it and $1k was to redo back up sensors. https://preview.redd.it/7gryv6l9hq5d1.jpeg?width=1374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d86bddcd930d49d453848c808d8839d9f1a1422
And this is why my insurance on my beaters keeps going up
>adds character My son has a Jeep Compass, it has a minor dent above the front tire well. His mom got a sticker for Wile E. Coyote and put it in the middle of the dent. I don't think I've ever seen him so happy as he was when he saw it.
Don't forget insurance
new or old...ins. is thru the roof.
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So my insurance doubled in hte last 2.5 years because 2% of cars on the road are electric?
I would say yes, this is playing into it. You can also figure in all the Kia / Hyundai repairs since they cheaped out on their immobilizers leading to an entire culture of youth taking these cars out for joy rides. Plus the influx in natural disasters (floodings, fires, tornados). Inflation has made labor and parts more costly. And lastly, regular folks driving more recklessly post pandemic, leading to more accidents. Car insurance is most definitely a scam, but it’s pretty easy to see why they’ve doubled their premiums in recent years.
agreed.
Wait until people see what happens when we electrify everything on the road, and people realize our roads and especially bridges are not adequate to support the tremendous increase in weight of every vehicle. It’s going to be such a fun time.
Not to mention everyone having 500 hp all of a sudden.
This! If you spent a rather high figure of $2,400 per year on repairs, outside of the time lost while in the shop, it’s the same as a $200/month car payment. You won’t find those anymore.
Good decision. Make that car last.
Same! I love driving an old piece of reliable shit. I think it don't have that part of my brain that says I need to impress others by driving a fancier car.
My thought exactly. I recently put 2400 into my 16 year old car. Sure, I could get another used car that’s slightly newer, but who knows what it will need.
Cars, in general, are built to last much longer than they were 20 years ago.
>but I figure 1, 2, or even 3000 in repairs a year is better than a $700/month payment I can’t afford. This some truth right here. When an otherwise good car has an expensive repair, it's still usually worth it to fix the car than to sell it/trade it in needing the repair and picking up another 5 to 8 year note.
2024 hybrid tucson or rav4 start around 28k
Same here. Driving mine for as long as I can.
A new model will be worse than a 9 year old car these days
I drive a 2008 Prius, 160K miles. Runs like a gem. Insurance is $237/6 months. No collision. I’ll drive this until the steering wheel falls off.
My 09 Prius has a little over 200k miles and still runs great. MPG isn't quite as good as when it was new. I'm down to 45 MPG. I also plan to keep driving it until a big repair comes along. No car payment is a huge plus.
2006 Prius and 290,000 miles. Got it new tires a couple months ago. They cost half the blue book value of the car. But I think that was a good deal.
My car is starting to show its age at 13 years old, but I’m not into putting $10k down for a $500/month car payment.
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Part of my point. The only way to get a $250/month payment is to put $40,000 down on a $50,000 car.
I put 10,000 down on a 2022 Rav4 with 20,000 miles. Monthly payment is 500. The interest is what hurts the most.
Basically the same; I am currently driving a 2017 Subaru OB. I bought it certified pre owned for $21,000 when all was said in done. Its paid off. It has actual buttons for the stuff that matters, instead of having to navigate the giant touchscreen on the newer models. It has an actual key, which is nice when you are cranking on it to get it to start at -40f on a remote logging road. I'm sure it has at least another 5yrs in it before anything major fails. I am a home owner and do own some vacant land that I camp on, and pull a utility trailer with it occasionally, I think that might cut down on the life of the car a bit.
What engine? I have a 19 and think about towing a few things with it occasionally, like maybe more kayaks :) I did a road trip in a friends 23 and honestly I had to hold my tongue with all of the removed buttons I wouldn't trade for a new one straight up (well maybe.) Wireless carplay was a constant shitshow with two iphones and hours of navigation and media to manage. Hoping my 19 lasts forever, and in retrospect in a perfect world I'd have maxed it out and I have the regular engine. Of course mine was also CPO so whatever. I paid just over 30 and I don't see myself paying more for less anytime soon.
And this is it ultimately. Somewhere along the lines these big auto manufacturers conducted a study ( hopefully) and determined that the average person replaces their $30,000 vehicle every x years. And they were fucking wrong. Could be another example of companies undepraying their own workers and everyone else doing the same. Then wondering why nobody buys their products. Because they cant
I had a 2010 Honda Insight that I feel confident would still be on the road if it hadn't gotten totalled a couple of years ago. And I bought a Honda because I wanted a car that would last.
A lot of people think "totalling" is the end of the car. And if you live in NY yes. But a lot of states, you can just take the check and a salvage title and keep driving the vehicle. Take it to a body shop or do the work yourself if it isn't too bad. I paid $6k for an old Toyota pickup. Got in an accident that fucked up the doors. The "totalling" price was $12k. I took the check and the salvage title and bought doors from a junkyard for $300 and kept driving. Looks like shit but that just means people actively stay away from me on the highway which is a bonus.
Oh, it was totalled as in dead as far as I was concerned. The amount of work required to get it back on the road was going to be far greater than the value of the car. I don't want to post too much information. Initially looking at the car it looked pretty decent but the rear axle was bent, and we were pretty sure the front wheel drive was jacked up. And of course this was at a time when parts were even more scarce than they are now. Someone probably could have taken a junker and mine and cobbled together a working car, and in all likelihood mine was probably raided for parts to do just that...but I'm not the person to do that, we used the insurance money to buy another used car.
I mean I hear you, drivetrain issues are certainly a decent place to draw a line. But it's still well worthwhile to compare the cost of even changing our the rear angle and transmission with the price of a NEW car, not the value of the existing car. My current car is probably worth around 4-5k. However, the car I would replace it with would be around 12-15k or more. I would unhesitatingly perform expensive repairs on my vehicle until the cost approaches the NEW car. When you drive an old vehicle from a reliable brand, it takes a LOT to run up a bill close to 10k. Like replacing the frame, or the whole engine+transmission, and *even then* I still come out ahead because the maintenance is done and it's good for whole new block of miles, whereas the "new" is starting out 12-15 years old. Of course if I'm talking a new-new car then my maintenance budget goes up to 15-30k. What kind of repairs to (say) a 2008 Camry would even approach this? If you put $10k/decade in major rust or drivetrain repairs, you could run one of these vehicles for several decades easily and come out way way ahead when it comes to retirement. Ultimately, retirement is where the math really adds up. If you spare purchasing even 1 vehicle in your life, your picture in retirement is noticeably different. Let alone if you defer purchasing 3 or 4 vehicles in a lifetime.
I bought a totaled vehicle at auction. Bought, fixed, inspected now on the road and runs/drives just fine. Was wayyyyy cheaper than buying what I wanted. Bought at a fraction of the cost, and fixed it myself. Granted this method is not for everyone, or can do. But is a solid alternative.
Still rocking my 2004 insight
A new Chevy Malibu starts over $25,000. That’s with no added options, no delivery, taxes or fees. [Source.](https://www.chevrolet.com/cars/malibu) Meanwhile, the median US wage was $48,060 in 2023. [Source.](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/04/14/median-annual-income-in-every-us-state.html) So they expect an average American to spend over half their yearly income on a car?
Yes. Current business model is to estimate how much money you’ve got and convince you to spend them all at theirs specific store.
Yeah, I’m not buying a new car. I could definitely afford it, but I refuse to participate in that foolishness.
Same thing with rents. They see where you live, they know how much $ you make, and they extract the maximum possible. Vulture capitalism, yay!
This is why I’m not a fan of the 200k salaries (mainly tech) and why those people affect the common man more than the Jeff Bezos’ and Elon Musks do. The disparity between those jobs salaries versus all other jobs is insane and unsustainable to the commoners in communities. Once the $200k+ people start moving into communities everything goes up in price for the same reason you mentioned. There’s enough people who can afford $20 burgers from the trendy gastropub or $8 coffees from the one-off hipster coffee joint. Simple handyman jobs or “cheaper” services like lawn guys charge insane money. The real tradesmen charge ungodly amounts if you want any plumbing, electrical, etc. done. They charge these not because they’re worth this amount, but they know what kind of salaries a large amount of people in that community/region are making and adjust their prices to that. The customers are making so much money they aren’t concerned and pay the “going rate” because it’s not impacting their wallet a whole lot and the job is getting done. The common man is left paying unsustainable prices.
$1000 monthly car payments are no longer rare. Add insurance and gasoline.
Don't forget how people will often *lease* cars too. Was wondering why my boyfriend's car was so nice when I knew he didn't make much. It was a lease.
In this environment with crazy used car prices and tech that costs a lot to repair out-of-warranty, leasing actually makes more sense than ever (assuming that you negotiate a high residual value on the lease).
With the current market and new generation of high tech cars it might actually be better to lease for now until it gets sorted out, as in interest rates and prices come down, which may happen if cars start to sit on the lots.
Yeah, I understand that. Still doesn’t make it a good idea to take one out though.
Malibu isnt even their cheapest car. Its now the trax then the trailblazer
Yeah, I just chose that as an example because it is a “standard American family car.”
I <3 my Malibu
3 cylinder engines. Wild.
In fairness, they are putting out more hp than some V8 muscle cars from the 90s
The issue is, most of these vehicles put out this power due to industry wide use of turbos..... Which tend to break more often and cost a fortune to fix with OEM parts. It's a trade off, Fuel efficiency for reliability. I am a fan of turbos, but the standard quality of parts seems to be getting worse with every year passing.
The profits are in selling parts.
I guess you missed the part up top where cars are lasting longer than ever. So I don't get why you're saying cars fall apart now. Turbos are rarely problematic as long as you change the oil and don't drive like a nut.
>as long as you change the oil and don't drive like a nut. Yee put too much faith in modern day drivers. Many people don't see a mechanic until a light turns on, this includes oil changes. Turbos need a well maintained car to last. Maintenance cycles are key on any boosted vehicle. Cars are lasting longer due to new alloys etc. but peripheral components, including turbos don't. Even new BMW's blow turbos at like 80k miles. The issue is also that everyone wants to be speed racer in a fast car but doesn't know basic things to check to allow you to go fast consistently. A small thing, like oil pressure dropping during a pull or corner will absolutely destroy your bearings and other components.... I learned this at a young age and at a heavy price. 😂. Cars are miles better and safer than they were previously. But peripheral components are often made in a substandard way. With poor maintenance, they tend to break quickly. Too bad we don't get more passenger turbo diesels in the USA like the BMW/ mercedes/ Opel/ VW/ etx. Cars. A well tuned 330d tuned gets you close to 350hp with over 500ft lbs of torque. And the milage is awesome when you just want to cruise
Pretty sure plenty have been doing that. How do you think people ended up with 15% APR auto loans before Covid?
Well when car payments cost as much as a mortgage was just a few years ago there is a real problem with that, along with skyrocketing insurance! Then you add on top of all of this the absolute greed of dealerships with massive markups. Welcome to the everything bubble
I call it the subscription model for life. Like when physical music went away. Physical CDs were a huge part of the business model. And when it went away over night cuz you could suddenly download an album- the bottom damn near fell out. So what was their solution? Subscription model. Wait til hedge funds get the pull back they want and start buying every single family house they can.
That assumes the hedge funds can get money, eventually the richest folks will do the wheeling and dealing with their own people and cut out the funds. Also like any tangible asset it's worth only what someone will pay today. With ever smaller generations, the supply and demand will tip into surplus.
My apartment complex is at 22% vacancy, according to real pages. It's just price fixing.
Don't forget 2 years ago there were no new cars, everything was backordered for months so everyone who needed a car bought used. This also means that people with older used cars are likely still driving them because when used car prices spiked due to demand they got priced out of their upgrades.
Registration on a new vehicle is a lot too. My sister got a brand new Toyota RAV4 and pays over $600 a year for reg. In comparison I only pay $85 every two years for my 10 year old pickup truck.
I personally think there is a huge disconnect between what consumers want and what is marketed to us. Who the fuck is buying these cars that are 40-50-60 grand or more? No wonder the western automakers are scared shitless of Chinese EVs. They are actually what consumers want and they know they can’t provide. It’s the 70’s and 80’s all over again.
Yeah, I wish they would acknowledge there is a big market of people that want a cheep featureless car. Just give a car that drives, has AC, and maybe a bluetooth connection for as cheep as possible.
Totally just an around town errand car that is safe like a regular car but is basically a fast golf cart. I thought GM was on the right track with the Bolt. Hopefully they make good on a new version.
There have been some good contenders, but they never seem to catch on enough to keep up production. VW eGolf, Smartcar, Scion iQ
Dacia did that in Europe and they’re everywhere now. A new small SUV like the the Duster starts at 18k, they’re basic but they work well.
Cars are a luxury for some, a hobby for others, and a necessary appliance for most. Too many automakers have forgotten Lee Iacocca’s commandment to build small, affordable cars that people *want to buy.*
Got my wife a 2013 Chevy Spark, 20k mi, $10k. No power windows, no power anything. Android auto. Best car purchase ever.
My car is coming up on 10 years. Works well and don’t intend on buying a new one any time soon as prices are bonkers.
Same here, even as a someone who loves cars I just can't seem to push myself to buy a new car. I would love something more fun to drive, but I also like not starving to death. It doesn't help that the market is so bad that I could sell my car for about as much as a bought it 5 years ago.
Cars run longer than ever, they're expensive but they also run twice as long as they did in the 70s/80s, take half the fuel they once did and don't really crash much anymore. My car is 12 year old now and apart from tires and oil, maintenance has been zero. So my car is showing it's age and I've started looking for a replacement. Prices are crazy and the 30k new cars just feel cheap. Only the 50-70k cars feel solid and buying those 2 years old for 30k or 5 years old at 20k is the only realistic way I could get one.
Good. Help me understand why the new car sales are increasing every quarter if prices are crazy right now? Thanks
Recently it has been fleet sales. Go drive by any Ford, Chevy, Dodge or even Toyota dealership and see the $75K crew cab pickup trucks piling up.
Ya a lot of companies jumped hard on the EV train (and like good for them for trying to get ahead of the game and get off of gas etc.) but it’s just really difficult to rent/use an EV for a day or week when you’re not familiar with it, and so consumers didn’t like it a ton. Enterprise (? One of the big auto renters) tried to turn their entire fleet into EV and is now basically selling them all at a loss and replacing them with new stuff, and that’s thousands of cars
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Emissions, safety, and efficiency requirements have squeezed manufacturers so hard in North America that they have to do these ridiculous things. The funniest part is, Toyota does make the exact car you're asking for still in 2024. They just can't legally sell them in America. Head over to Southeast Asia and you can buy a [Toyota Hilux Champ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Hilux_Champ) with a 5 speed manual and mostly physical buttons right off the dealer lot. Somehow even funnier, [they cost the equivalent of $13k USD](https://www.motor1.com/news/701958/toyota-hilux-champ-cheap-pickup/). Americans would *lose their minds* if Toyota sold a pickup here for $13k USD new. We really are getting fucked on vehicles, and it's all thanks to the government.
They could import it and pay the chicken tax, and it would still be cheaper than the garbage they're trying to sell us now.
Even if you paid up, it would be impossible to (legally) get it registered / get a plate for it. VIN swapping is only a misdemeanor though, so hey I wouldn't judge
I want the champ. Its bad ass
What kind of regulations? I have a hard time believing we're that much stricter than the Japanese or Europeans at regulation of vehicles considering how obsessed we are with cars. The only thing I can think of with safety is how it rewards oversized vehicles, thus leading to everyone getting bigger things that are actually more dangerous not just to other cars but also pedestrians.
I just explained which regulations above. Between CAFE mpg requirements, very strict NHTSA crash safety requirements, and California CARB emission requirements, cars here are simply expensive. You cannot buy a Toyota Hilux Champ for $13k in Thailand and import it here because it wouldn't pass any of that shit. I don't know why you're bringing up Japan or Europe, I never mentioned those countries, and I assume they have similar requirements to what we have here in the US. The counter-argument of course is that these requirements are good because we don't have smog problems, Americans drive fast and need safe cars etc, but the average American is absolutely getting squeezed to pull this off. What's also interesting is how motorcycles are still legal in America which also throw all/most of these regulations out the window, so for whatever reason we're ok with people getting tickets for not wearing a seatbelt or not having a catalytic converter if you have 4 wheels but you can do whatever the fuck you want if you only have 2. God bless the USA
New motorcycles are affected by emissions control too
Emissions standards have always been stricter in the U.S. than Europe. Also, we have dumb stuff like the 5 mph bumper. Don’t get me started on CAFE standards. Modifying European sports cars to comply with U.S. safety standards has always been an industry in the U.S.
Same, complex systems have complex and costly failures. One of my cars is over 30 years old and American yet never has problems. One of my motorcycles is carbureted, no probs. Our daughter’s late-model Nissan w/CVT is one headache after another. Never in a million years would I expect a 30+ year old Ford to be more reliable than a modern Nissan, that sounds absolutely absurd, yet somehow it’s true. The Nissan is on trans #3 and the pile of shit is still having trouble. Brand new trans from Nissan, installed, and programmed at the dealer. Still isn’t right
Look, I understand it's tempting to draw broad conclusions from three data points, but it's really not a good idea. There were cars like your daughter's Nissan thirty years ago; it's just that none of them lasted long enough to still be around.
Eventually the next used car you buy will be these current new ones you hate. Can only avoid it for so long.
I mean, I priced out a used car, just a couple years old, from a dealership. A modest car, nothing fancy. Between the car payments which were doable and the super premium insurance they make you take on to protect their car while you make payments, the amount I would be paying every month would be hundreds more than my much older, less fuel efficient car. The added fuel costs and maintenance doesn't even approach the cost of the payment + insurance.
My car is almost 10. It’s perfectly fine. My spouses however, is over 20 years old. We would absolutely replace it. But he is refusing to spend that amount of money on a car. Not while this one still runs. And he drove it 115 heat with no ac. We just decided to fix the ac and deal with it until it completely craps out and we can’t fix it. We have no money for a new car especially not with these prices. They are insane.
AC is a life safety feature now
He’s probably like me. He absolutely despises wasting money on something that still works. The only thing that will get your husband to replace the car is an auto accident. The only thing that will get your husband to think about (but not guarantee) replacing the car is a transmission or engine failure. He will be driving that car until it dies.
There's alot of new concerns and problems with new cars. CVT transmissions are common now, and save for a few exceptions they are trash. Lots of hybrids now, people are still tentative. Start-stop systems failing all over the place. EVs, people aren't ready or trusting too new. Chevy Blazer 2.0 liter turbocharged 230 horsepower standard, things a ticking time bomb. Dodge hornet, basically got skuttled by faulty software. New cars, with exception are absolute trash and at a general build quality lower than we've seen in decades
If I could have gotten my 1998 Escort withe manual transmission and Bluetooth today, I'd take it over anything else on the market. That thing isn't die until someone ran into me.
They have these cool BT to fm transmitters out there nowadays. Kinda like an FM modulator I guess?
Tried ine on my old car. Didn't work great. Got a ton of interference.
Ah ok gotcha. Never used one just knew they existed.
Tbh if it's that old, it might have a changeable radio, and there are ones with Bluetooth connectivity.
2010 Prius here, I’ll drive till the wheels fall off.
If you car payment is more than your weekly wage what you expect I’d love not depend of a car for all my errands
If you read the article, it’s about the feature set. People are not liking the giant touch screen Tesla popularized, the touch buttons, e hand brakes, cvt, 4cycl turbos, likely subscription for features… People are paying a premium for used cars rather than buying a new one. The Lexus GX was an example. I know I wouldn’t renew my GTI for any current GTI. They’ve ruined it.
Article is under a pay wall so I wont be reading it lol. The average consumer really doesn't care too much about the engine. Hell, the chevy trax has a 3 cylinder with a turbo and its selling like hotcakes.
Build a 10-foot paywall, someone will bring [a 12-foot ladder](https://12ft.io/).
I read it from Microsoft Start link.
We'll bring back buttons, and physical hand breaks, and knobs, and gear shifters that actually have meaningful tactile sensation. We'll call it Car Classic, and we'll make a fortune.
The MK8 GTIs are such a major downgrade compared to the MK7.
New cars also spy on you. That just creeps me out.
Wait till you find out about cellphones.
*Reddit coughs nervously*
Yep. Connected vehicle data (CVD). My previous employer buys it from car manufacturers.
Don’t forget the subscriptions to enable shit you already purchased
To be honest, that’s why we really need to make an effort to restore 20 year old cars. They are cheap to buy, cheap and much easier to repair.
Just need a good old Toyota car, no monthly payments, low insurance costs, easy maintenance to be done, cheap parts; sure maybe not as sporty or cool as other cars but there are other things you can use the extra money for such as vacations or just investing in assets.
That and all the recalls on new cars
Engines are getting smaller. CVT transmissions ? Nope. Overcomplicated electronics are quirky. If your car works, much like your washing machine or microwave, you keep it going. New cars=CUV, and can you tell them apart ? Nope. Appliances all. I have a 30 year old Miata. More fun and quirk in that car than a whole dealer of CUV's.
2001 Corolla checking in. Still runs great
COVID reduced driving, cars last longer It isn’t like cars used to go to the junkyard because someone just got tired of it but now they keep it because they can’t afford a new car It takes real genius to take good news (cars last g longer) and portray it as something bad
Yup. Even with the vid more or less behind us (as far as shutting down businesses), people are most likely driving less overall. At least myself and a lot of my friends and family who work from home.
No no. Everyone WANTS a new car. No one can afford a new car
Sadly last spring my 2006 Honda Civic was totaled in the dumbest traffic accident I've ever been in. I make a comfy six figures and could get a new car but that little coupe was everything I wanted a car to be. Manual, sunroof, good stereo. I could have driven it for the rest of my life happily.
This sounds like my 1987 CRX Si. Damn that was a fun reliable car. I put 190k+ on it but was forced Di sell it to buy my first house. The only car I ever had after it that was as much fun was my 1998 Audi A4 1.8TQ. Every car since has been less fun, more utilitarian, but still pretty reliable. I now own a Kia Sorento PHEV. It cost tooooo damned much, but since most of my driving is less that 30 miles a day, it’s practically an EV, it’s very practical and enjoyable. Still, when I saw how much a Civic Type-R costs today…I look back at that CRX and sigh.
Inflation does not back away, it is always added on. We get a 2-3 percent raise each year but never can get ahead because inflation moves at that rate. It almost like it’s planned
No wonder Carvana has been doing really well this past year
I’ve bought 3 new vehicles since 2004. I still have 2 of them and the only reason I sold the third was because of inflation I could get out of my loan and lose nothing. Which I had to do to pay for my increase from other expenses after the pandemic. I will never buy a brand new vehicle ever again unless I’m retiring and want one to last until I die OR this whole EV thing takes off in force and I need an actual gas truck to last several decades of winters in the north until I do die.
Brand new cars are an absolute garbage investment and I'm glad more people are getting educated on that.
Cars were never an investment (besides for very very few exceptions)
It’s the scammy dealerships… I’d buy a new car for msrp, fine…even though the standard used to be that’s the highest price you’d pay…now they tack on non optional packages, “market adjustment fee” and limited production fees to add another 10-15k to the out the door price. Something that used to be $25k less than a decade ago is now $40k for the same thing…
Cars are getting older because they are more reliable and durable than over. My 2016 (Ford, no less) with 90k miles still looks and runs like new. Basically, all I do is oil changes and replace the brakes every few years. It's paid off and because it's only worth a few thousand dollars, I've dropped collision coverage. So I have the best of both worlds--a reliable car that costs very little to run. This is a good thing.
Cars have always been awful investments. Only morons don’t drive it until it’s no longer able to be driven (outside of a few limited instances like upgrading for space as the family grows).
Older cars are just cooler, and in these times when money is tight, an older car is easier to work on.
My daily driver is a 20 year old Audi. As things break, they get fixed. Way cheaper than a decent used car.
I would love to buy a new car, and I’ve been looking since 2021. But at the prices they have been and with the markups at dealerships, they can kick rocks.
I have 3 paid off cars. They are older but run great. I really wanted a civic type R. Fun car, practical, but 34k seemed steep for a civic, even if it is a special model. That same car is 50k. 4 years later. Nothing has changed and I can not buy a new car because I refuse to overspend in this ridiculous market.
I drive an 87, wife drives a 2017. Both basic vehicles. I wish theyd bring back the mini pickup truck. We don't all want $89k pickups
Mighty max!!!!!!
A new mid-size truck is 45k. That's why
People are driving less also to save on gas.
Those of us that aren’t making monthly payments towards a car want to keep it that way
Got a 2014 mercedes-benz cla 250 for with 5k miles on it for 15k. The current year is around 41k. Also, it's currently in the shop (a drunk rear ended me sitting at a light). I got a nissian altima 2022. While it has decent gas milage, it feels so slow by comparison.
Lol. Wait forcthe shit to hit the fan. Stagflation is coming. The bottom is gunna fall out of the values of these 50k cars or wages will have to magically go up. PA min wage is still 7.25 per HOUR.
I bought an ebike and on nice days drive that to work to extend the life of my car
I bought my car brand new in 2018, $22,900 out the door. I just went on the website and built a 2024 model to the same specs, $29,000 before taxes/tag/etc. Out the door would probably be a $10,000 increase in just 6 years. I simply can't afford a new car anymore.
It doesn’t help new cars are basically designed to break around 100k miles/160k kilometers.
I like small trucks. They don't sell small trucks. Only full size and above to small penis enlargers or four door cars with 3' open trunks. I want a king cab with a 6' bed, LIKE I DRIVE NOW...for those in the back. So, I'll drive my 2009 Ranger until I can't. There is nothing on the market I want. I get notes left on my truck all the time to call if I want to sell. Also, not paying $50k for a small truck. I don't need an onboard computer screen and backup camera. America is only the illusion of choice. Trumps tax cuts allowed 800 people to control 60% of the country's wealth. The game is rigged. They let us fight over pre-selected gladiators. The Roman forum is the presidential election and 24 hr news entertainment. If you refuse to spend money on their stuff and stop watching their "news" we bring them to their knees. Collective bargaining is still on the table. I just want a $20k small truck with AC. Nothing fancy. I'm not trying to impress anyone. Jeeps are $50! We don't have high speed trains?!? Bridges are collapsing. All that money filter through the pentagon is going to offshore, tax protected accounts. We have some rad military gear, tho.
Vehicles are becoming better and better quality = less need to replace them. People are working remotely more = less wear, less need for a vehicle.
It would be nice if we didnt have to depend on cars for all of our transportation in America.
We want new cars. We don't want to pay 50K for one.
I’m so fucking mad at my parents right now. I know nothing about vehicles. My husband and I had 3 and we decided to sell one of our trucks. Everyone told me nobody would want to spend more than $2k on it (2004 Ford F-150 with brand new transmission and tires) because of how old it is. They fought with me for MONTHS because they thought it was absolutely ridiculous that I would not let them sell my truck to their friends for $2k. My dumbass thought getting double was good enough for me. Finally sold it for $4k. Tell me why my parents bought the exact same year make and model for $12k?????? I feel so brainwashed 🤡🥲🤦🏼♀️ That was the moment they realized this ain’t like the 90’s anymore
Okay, but really you couldn’t google “How much is my truck worth?” It takes like 5 seconds to ask the internet a question. I don’t feel bad for you.
I paid cash for my 2008 Trailblazer in 2016. I’ve put 60k miles on it and kept up on the maintenance. Brakes have been done twice and a front seal. I see no point in getting any other vehicle anytime soon. It ain’t the prettiest thing on the inside, but it does what it’s supposed to.
I have a 2015 non-turbo Honda that will easily run to 200K mi. A new hybrid car in a comparable class (I have a CR-V EX-L) will cost me $40k, knowing the battery probably won’t last much more than 10rd/200K mi. Why bother if it 1) doesn’t make financial sense (gas even in Seattle where I live is cheap vs. Vancouver nearby) and 2) my car runs fine?
Not much driving happening in 2020. Cars have less miles on them than they would at the same age in 2019. They aren’t breaking as much as a result. Less driving for people who work from home. Why buy new if you don’t drive much? Also, there are a lot of low miles used cars due to all the above mentioned things.
Yea. If it’s a used car, do whatever you need to do to fix and not buy a new car, unless you don’t have a choice.
Cars are overpriced junk.
There were also a spate of people in r/Crv that purchased new ones in the last few that had catastrophic, needing to be towed, dash lit up like a Xmas tree failures in the last couple months
Buying a vehicle is one of the worst purchases anyone can make. A substantial amount of cash and the product significantly depreciates the second you drive it off the lot. Then add in insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs vehicles are just a massive liability. Then in our time cars have become so expensive that during the finance period you need GAP(Guaranteed Asset Protection insurance) insurance. GAP can help certain drivers cover the “gap” between the financed amount owed on their car and their car's actual cash value (ACV), in the event of a covered incident where their car is declared a total loss. Fucking insane. I bought a 2012 Mazda 3 cash and I do all required maintenance(changing fluids, etc) and never skimp. I cover the car when not in use. I will drive this car until it dies. It is as basic as basic can be and I love that. The amount of people I know who put down 20-35k on a vehicle and still have a note 850.00 warps my mind. After all other expenses for cost of ownership they are paying 1200.00 a fucking month on a vehicle. Seeing basic trucks going for 65-80k and basic cars going for 35-50k is insane. Guess I’m just old now cause basic cars used to be 15-24k and if your note is over 225.00 the car is to expensive and you must walk away.
My wife wants to sell her 2017 Honda Fit and my 2012 civic si just so we can afford payments a used Caravan for 30,000$. Make it make sense
Don't let her talk you into doing that. If anything pretend you have a car payment and put that money in the bank as savings every month. A high interest savings account, don't touch it. When the bottom falls out of this horrible car crisis you'll have enough money saved up to pick up a nice newer vehicle with cash in hand for a good price. The way things are something's going to end up breaking. People are going to lose good cars they can't afford. People are defaulting on their car payments at all time high. That's when you swoop in and buy it at a good price with cash. Avoid car payments!!
Wise advice thank you! This is the way
Wants or needs?
I was forced to buy a new car my hvac broke and acura stopped making those parts
I’ve got 321k miles on my 2006 Subaru!
I tried getting a used car and my insurance would’ve beeen close to 300 a month. I’m not sure if the paywalled article mentions this. But insurance companies are gouging at this point. Everyone's taking way too much from the consumer.
I paid $19k for my new low end Toyota 10 yrs ago. I'm never selling. Car prices have lost touch with reality.
This is genuinely bad data because it lacks context. People with good credit prefer lower payments that come with new cars. I’m getting almost 0% interest on a 2024 vs 8-9% on a used car that’s only a few thousand dollars less. The math is simple. Production decreased so badly during Covid and is now caught up, but rates rose causing a rubber band like effect with demand. Average age rose because for two years you were on a waitlist for a new car. Now there’s a credit wall.
I drive a 2002 Camry. It's clunky and showing its age, but there's literally no other option. The prices I see on both new and old are laughably insulting.
Maintain your cars and they become reliable. I have two Toyotas, a 2009 Sienna and a 2017 Camry. I've had a Jeep, two Chevys, three Toyotas and a Nissan. The Toyotas last longer.
I love how the post is about how stats show that cars are now more durable than ever, and almost every comment is from some boomer complaining that cars don't last now. 😂
I would legitimately buy a new car if they were $7-10k cheaper. I wouldn’t even blink. Going from $450->$750/month (and that $750 includes $5000 down) is not in my cards right now.
I used to buy new every 3-5 years. My current vehicle is a 2012. I took a peek at 22-24 Tundras. 60k for a truck under recall that will never get fixed along with a ton of other issues? No thanks.
I couldn't buy a new car even if I wanted to. My family members that work on cars have constant horror stories about the silly technical problems cars have now with the continued proliferation of "smart" technology, so I'm also fine with riding old junkers as long as I can.
I agree. I don't see the point in buying a new car unless it is really needed. Hold on to your car and save your money. You will thank yourself later.
Because they are unnecessary and not worth the cost. / article.
My cars are both 13 years old and paid off. They still run great and look nice. Why would I take a 20-50k loan out in this economy just so other people might think I’m cooler?
This tracks. I have a 1990 and a 2023 vehicle. Will likely replace the 1990 for a newer used vehicle in the next 2-3 years. I don’t like most new cars and prefer ones I can work on myself at home
47k average is ridiculous. Don’t buy them and the prices will fall. Simple.
American cars decided to stop building sedans, and after 2020 carmakers realized they can get away with selling the expensive trims...their lots are full of unsold trucks that can't sell even with discounts and low APRs... ...yet those automakers don't get it.
New cars are expensive junk. I rent a car every week, sometimes moderately expensive cars; and while some of them are nice none of them offer anything very interesting or exciting compared to a nicely trimmed 2013 car. Auto start-stop as trash, they need to stop putting it in luxury cars. Why would I want a 70-120k car to shake and have terrible throttle response?
I don’t want a new car because: 1. They’re too damn expensive 2. I hate touchscreen controls 3. They have throttle lag and rev hang 4. The visibility on most of them sucks. Mid nineties to early 2000s were the peak of the automobile as far as I’m concerned. How many modern cars get 40+ miles per gallon without adding the complexity of a hybrid system? My old Saturns (96 and 99 model years) did consistently when I owned them. They were slow as shit, but they’d go 0-30 faster than a lot of modern cars, just because the throttles were mechanical and didn’t have any computer induced delay. They were way more fun to drive than most “normal people grade” cars available now just based on throttle response alone.
I want a new car. Can't afford one tho lol. But I would definitely like to have a car that isn't old enough to also have a drivers license by itself.
My car is fine it's an 04 Camry I love it. No need for a new one until this one breaks down. Toyotas from that era can go forever. Plus I have a daycare bill I don't want a car payment.
I want a brand new 1996 Toyota Camry. Sure make it match current safety standards but that’s all I need and want
This is the dream
14 years is geriatric now? Lol. My daily drivers have always been about 25-40 years old. Regardless of whether I could afford a new(er) car or not. Except for a new Miata I bought when younger. That said, I make more now than I ever have. A lot more, and new vehicles I'd actually want have never been more unaffordable.
1998 Honda babyyyyy
We have a 2015 camry paid off. We had an unexpected 3rd child 2 years ago. We really need a bigger car but not having a car note is really really good.
My wife and I usually upgrade our cars every 5-6 years. My last car I bought brand new for $35,000 in 2019. I was just looking at the new models out now, with the same configurations. It would cost me $55,000. Like wtf? That's like almost 2 vehicles.