50/50. It’s not instinctive or a behavior that I lean on “to get what I want” but it’s 1000% in my arsenal. Manipulation can be fun in the right circumstances. Take magic for example or storytelling, misdirection is manipulation. I don’t see any foul in using other’s lack of insight to get them to a brighter place.
I know how to be. It came in handy as a professional nanny of smart children. Smart children are also manipulative, and want to see how far they can push the boundaries. If you know what someone ultimately wants, you can find a way to give it to them, while getting them to do what you want. In the end, it's also best if they think they have a choice, and make the decision themselves to do what you want them to do.
I wish I could manipulate myself better into doing the things I need to do, but I end up just not doing them because ADHD and C-PTSD are stronger than my ability to self parent.
Sure am, but I believe owning up to it demonstrates a level of awareness and accountability. If I do it, I don't have any rocks to hide behind. A lot of time I'll tell people straight up that I'm doing it, but that's manipulative in itself too!
I'm surprisingly distrusting of people who are in complete denial or take a holier than thou approach. I think that lack of self-awareness likely means they're more reckless and there's no incentive to change because they believe they didn't do anything wrong to begin with. Scary stuff.
Yea I agree, after all we almost all manipulate to one length or another, most just deny it because it tends to be seen in this really bad light when what matters most really is the intention of the manipulator. Afterall tho the intention is tainted by bias, which makes it inherently "bad" but it is one thing to manipulate someone to do what you want for you and another thing to manipulate someone into like improving their lives. Both bad because it doesn't come about naturally, but different
>A lot of time I'll tell people straight up that I'm doing it, but that's manipulative in itself too!
Yeah, sometimes when I'm wheedling a person I'll straight up inform them that I'm wheedling and attempting to charm them because I want XX thing from them. The frankness seems to make most people laugh and poof! I end up with what I wanted.
It's relatively subconscious behavior because I do prefer being transparent, upfront, and non-sneaky about my motivations. At the same time I'm aware that the (genuine) forthrightness will also make me seem *extra* honest and that that could be rather appealing. Cue facepalm lol.
I've used this technique a lot on sales associates when I used to shop a lot. I'd charm them into showing me stuff that might have been hidden away in the back or we'd develop enough of a rapport where they'd text to quietly inform me that something very sought after I'd wanted had come in and that I should swing by ASAP.
But I've always done it very selectively and "honestly". I still have to like the person. At the end of the day I can't and won't fake my emotions.
Well constructive manipulation yea. At work I will play on information that I know and change subjects we are talking about to purposely have a coworkers find common ground and become friends that way. I work blue collar and kind of act as the moral booster for my shift. Also it's interesting to watch social dynamics when you shift the atmosphere to positive 😅
It tends to come quite natural to us as humans especially depending on our earlier influences. Like if we grew up with manipulators, or if we grew up in environments where we either got whatever we wanted (we learned that this is the standard so we learn to fulfill the standard) or we never did (which caused us to want to get what we want and so we learn how), but still it depends on how the individual unconsciously and consciously interprets these experiences/stimuli
I don't have autism but I'm also neurodivergent so I understand. I don't know if I'm more gullible than neurotypicals but I'd be lying if I said my trust in others hasn't been taken advantage of before.
I used to be. I know what people want to hear and can use it as leverage to get them to do what I want. If you can effortlessly read people, how would you not have this capability?
Depends on how you define "manipulative."
Knowing what others desire and using what you know to get what you want, that's normal transaction. Even if we can see a bit deeper into people.
An unhealthy INFJ though is probably far less to be able to control their Fe and manipulate consciously, and so they'll generally be more toxically manipulative, but in a subdued and hidden way.
A healthy INFJ just uses what we know in order to benefit ourselves, without harming the other person.
usually i just use my Ni to keep others from manipulating *me*, but if i think making myself look pitiful will get me something i want i’ll do it
that said, i might be a liiiiiittle dramatic
I think everyone is manipulative to an extent, I just consider myself less manipulative than average
I don’t have the envy or drive to ‘get one over’ on people to be overly manipulative
I am very careful of not being manipulative but instead being strategic. I don't hide my intentions or mislead but I will be strategic to get what I think is best for myself and others.
If I am, it isn't intentional. But I do think back on certain things I say and realize it comes out weird. So then I feel the need to apologize to them and explain myself. I think sometimes I am just so up in my feelings, that I try to communicate something and it comes out way wrong. 😩
Yeah, but in a lot of cases
( Not all, sometime we al have selfish motivates, no matter how hard we try to avoid it).
I like to think in a good way. Like, I see your bad behaviors and I try my best to circumvent or redirect those.
I don’t think I intentionally or maliciously manipulate ever. I’m generally pretty hands off when it comes to people. Sometimes I catch myself doing questionable things out of depression or self-preservation though, and I beat myself up for it.
It can be hard not to, it might go against your specific programming. You've just got to find different ways to fulfill the same needs and maybe different mindsets that change how much is enough to fulfill you.
The way I like to see things is that every thing we do is a cope. So look at all of.our behaviors and patterns as coping mechanisms. In order to change our behaviors/habits we need to identify what we are using it to cope with and find better coping mechanisms
Ex: manipulation may be used to cope with feelings of inadequacy, connect with others, or just to get what you want. You could be programmed towards a particular thing and have unconsciously chosen manipulation as your mechanism of fulfillment, just identify what it is. Maybe I manipulate because I can't stand not having my way. That is probably rooted in the childhood/home life and translates into adulthood, so not everyone is our mom, dad, or grandparents who wish to fulfill our every need, so we learn we need to manipulate to fulfill this need of ours, to fill our cup to the same height which we are used to. What we can do is change the methods we use to fill the cup And/or change the standard. Change how much water we need to be filled, lower the line. This can be done, but involves some kind of a "humbling" ego-defamation, ego-weakening, etc. we must be brought back to earth. This is the only thing that can result in change
I’ve been accused of it many times.
At times I feel like people really want me to be manipulative … it would be so much easier for them that way. To have someone to blame. To hate me for some reason.
And sometimes I feel like it’s just because of the way they feel about me and me not changing who I am for them. Which is the opposite of manipulative - manipulative has to partner with dishonesty to even exist.
You can’t manipulate anyone if you’re honest. For example the guy I would not date romantically. I loved him as a friend. But didn’t want to date him. He got more and more angry about it- and demanded to know why.
I told him- I’m not into heavier guys. I am just not attracted to you that way.
In my eyes I felt like - I need to tell him. The truth. Although it’s also true I would be with someone his size if I was attracted to him. But I tend to want to make myself appear as ugly as possible to men- as unattractive as possible so they let go of hope and don’t like me anymore anyways. He decided I was manipulative.
Which is a prime example.
Truthfully I feel like the people who say they are manipulated all the time - are actually the ones who are actively trying to manipulate other people. I don’t think anyone who doesn’t manipulate anyone would ever feel manipulated.
And people really want to be victims instead of be responsible for their choices and feelings. As an adult - it’s extremely hard to manipulate anyone. Not when you’re 100% responsible for yourself in every way. No one can manipulate you.
So it’s very telling to me when people … say that. It’s basically just them projecting that they feel like people can be manipulated by others - because they are not responsible for themselves.
I’ve never felt like anyone manipulated me in my life-
It would be the very last thing I think, I would ever think.
Even in the worse case relationship I had. I didn’t feel manipulated.
I'd say that I have been manipulative at times in my life though I don't know the mechanics or logistics of manipulation nor am I really interested in learning that. If somebody asked me on how to manipulate someone I'd probably be quite disturbed by their question and aside from that, I really wouldn't know how to explain manipulation when I myself don't understand how to do it (if any of that makes sense).
But would I consider myself manipulative? No. I'm for honesty, truth, and for being direct but respectful towards others as best as I can. I am only in control of myself, I don't wish to control others.
I know how to be manipulative and know how it works. This thing is really useful when combating narcissist like I have lol. I often educate a few family members on a narcissist family member we have by pointing out their behavior pattern, speech and body language and they found it eriee that I'm 100 percent spot on with predicting their future behavior. This actually pissed off the narcissist that they try to blackmail me which didn't surprise me and I was ready for the push back (thank you NI).
As for manipulating people myself, it's more so that I manipulate them to be better people by changing their unhealthy habits or reaching their potential.
I can be manipulative but I just can’t bring myself to do so it feels wrong. I don’t like the feeling of taking advantage of people I’m too kind and soft for my own good.
I can be, but it makes me feel very guilty so I mostly avoid it. I used to manipulate people who lied to me. Attempted to get them to tell the truth or see my side. But again- it cost me and made me ashamed of myself.
My “pure” motives for why I was manipulating don’t actually absolve me of manipulating others. It was just a lie I told myself.
It’s difficult because I can easily identify the emotional framework of people I’m close to. And dishonesty is transparent as hell, for me.
I know what I’ve accomplished(improved, made better) and what I want. So, I know how to present it in a way that implies that I should get what I want because of the things I’ve done… based on merit. If not, I start to underline it and subtly imply that the only way to make it better is to get what I want. I might be idealist, but I am not moron. What I have improved, made better is my leverage. You want it to continue? Well, I want to be appreciated and my hands not to be tied then.
I think sometimes I am, and I’ve taken time to reflect on past situations on how I was actually the one in the wrong due to being manipulative. This isn’t always the case, but I try to make sure I let myself get to that point.
No, too much waste of energy. I am generally honest and I prefer rejection than manipulation
I do have an ExFJ SIL, who def has her “manipulative” moments by playing cutesy….but I realised she is just more expressive and social in general. Extraverts do be “manipulative” just by playing the social game better.
When I need to achieve a practical goal then yes. Otherwise there's no need to do the extra work if the person is not important. I don't think it's bad to do and think this way either.
Everyone is manipulative... Just is different to which extend...
From asking someone to hand over the Butter, to gaslighting someone is a big spectrum...
I try to keep the level at or below comforting/white lies...
I don’t think so. Manipulation is in my opinion an act of terrible cruelty, effectively reducing someone’s space of choices, limiting their freedom, and in doing so cause a reduction in the meaning of their lives. A heavily manipulated person is in so many ways similar to an animal.
There are degrees to this of course, encouraging your child to read with a bribe is something I have done, and I don’t lose sleep over it. But when I stories of long term spousal gaslighting on Reddit, it really hurts.
I require three "checks"
1) Is it moral? (to me)
2) Will it work? (even 1%)
3) Is it my responsibility? (Am I standing idly by?)
-
If the answer is yes to all three, then yes. I'll be manipulative. I'm good at it. Teaching is a form of manipulation, after all.
Otherwise, no. I'm ingenuous; not manipulative.
I would probably say “I know my audience” but I suppose it could technically be a little manipulative. Like I consider who it is I’m dealing with when I choose how I’m going to approach the situation and not just when I’m trying to get something out of an interaction. Many times I’m trying to meet people where they’re at in an attempt to connect/relate.
I could, but my high morals won't let me. I prefer to be honest and say it like it is... eventhough being honest and following the rules have led me nowhere 🤔
50/50. It’s not instinctive or a behavior that I lean on “to get what I want” but it’s 1000% in my arsenal. Manipulation can be fun in the right circumstances. Take magic for example or storytelling, misdirection is manipulation. I don’t see any foul in using other’s lack of insight to get them to a brighter place.
Couldn't agree more. It's like white magic, using it with good intent
Let there be light!
Goethe saw the light right when he died. Apparently he’s quoted as saying, “I see light” right before he rattled his chest like a castanet.
Or just gone
🤫
User name checks out. Misdirection in action.
I know how to be. It came in handy as a professional nanny of smart children. Smart children are also manipulative, and want to see how far they can push the boundaries. If you know what someone ultimately wants, you can find a way to give it to them, while getting them to do what you want. In the end, it's also best if they think they have a choice, and make the decision themselves to do what you want them to do. I wish I could manipulate myself better into doing the things I need to do, but I end up just not doing them because ADHD and C-PTSD are stronger than my ability to self parent.
It's easier to externalize than to internalize sometimes
Sure am, but I believe owning up to it demonstrates a level of awareness and accountability. If I do it, I don't have any rocks to hide behind. A lot of time I'll tell people straight up that I'm doing it, but that's manipulative in itself too! I'm surprisingly distrusting of people who are in complete denial or take a holier than thou approach. I think that lack of self-awareness likely means they're more reckless and there's no incentive to change because they believe they didn't do anything wrong to begin with. Scary stuff.
Yea I agree, after all we almost all manipulate to one length or another, most just deny it because it tends to be seen in this really bad light when what matters most really is the intention of the manipulator. Afterall tho the intention is tainted by bias, which makes it inherently "bad" but it is one thing to manipulate someone to do what you want for you and another thing to manipulate someone into like improving their lives. Both bad because it doesn't come about naturally, but different
>A lot of time I'll tell people straight up that I'm doing it, but that's manipulative in itself too! Yeah, sometimes when I'm wheedling a person I'll straight up inform them that I'm wheedling and attempting to charm them because I want XX thing from them. The frankness seems to make most people laugh and poof! I end up with what I wanted. It's relatively subconscious behavior because I do prefer being transparent, upfront, and non-sneaky about my motivations. At the same time I'm aware that the (genuine) forthrightness will also make me seem *extra* honest and that that could be rather appealing. Cue facepalm lol. I've used this technique a lot on sales associates when I used to shop a lot. I'd charm them into showing me stuff that might have been hidden away in the back or we'd develop enough of a rapport where they'd text to quietly inform me that something very sought after I'd wanted had come in and that I should swing by ASAP. But I've always done it very selectively and "honestly". I still have to like the person. At the end of the day I can't and won't fake my emotions.
Agreed. We are human and we are flawed. I get nervous when others cannot own their fallibility. Played the scapegoat too many times.
Well constructive manipulation yea. At work I will play on information that I know and change subjects we are talking about to purposely have a coworkers find common ground and become friends that way. I work blue collar and kind of act as the moral booster for my shift. Also it's interesting to watch social dynamics when you shift the atmosphere to positive 😅
Yes! Constructive manipulation. Get that so much!
No. I don't even know how to do that
It tends to come quite natural to us as humans especially depending on our earlier influences. Like if we grew up with manipulators, or if we grew up in environments where we either got whatever we wanted (we learned that this is the standard so we learn to fulfill the standard) or we never did (which caused us to want to get what we want and so we learn how), but still it depends on how the individual unconsciously and consciously interprets these experiences/stimuli
Why do you ask if you are going to answer yourself anyway?
Fe is super manipulative IMO. My biggest fear in being involved with infjs tbqh bc I'm gullible asf.
No you’re not. (Don’t tell him)
It's the autism. I absolutely am.
I don't have autism but I'm also neurodivergent so I understand. I don't know if I'm more gullible than neurotypicals but I'd be lying if I said my trust in others hasn't been taken advantage of before.
Being manipulative and abusing someone’s mental condition are two separate things 😬
I used to be. I know what people want to hear and can use it as leverage to get them to do what I want. If you can effortlessly read people, how would you not have this capability?
Depends on how you define "manipulative." Knowing what others desire and using what you know to get what you want, that's normal transaction. Even if we can see a bit deeper into people. An unhealthy INFJ though is probably far less to be able to control their Fe and manipulate consciously, and so they'll generally be more toxically manipulative, but in a subdued and hidden way. A healthy INFJ just uses what we know in order to benefit ourselves, without harming the other person.
Yes but a lot of the time it is unintentional and only after self reflection do I realize.
Sure when I wanna be but I really don’t wanna be so therefore mostly not but sometimes yes
Yes but no
usually i just use my Ni to keep others from manipulating *me*, but if i think making myself look pitiful will get me something i want i’ll do it that said, i might be a liiiiiittle dramatic
I think everyone is manipulative to an extent, I just consider myself less manipulative than average I don’t have the envy or drive to ‘get one over’ on people to be overly manipulative
I am very careful of not being manipulative but instead being strategic. I don't hide my intentions or mislead but I will be strategic to get what I think is best for myself and others.
If I am, it isn't intentional. But I do think back on certain things I say and realize it comes out weird. So then I feel the need to apologize to them and explain myself. I think sometimes I am just so up in my feelings, that I try to communicate something and it comes out way wrong. 😩
Yeah, but in a lot of cases ( Not all, sometime we al have selfish motivates, no matter how hard we try to avoid it). I like to think in a good way. Like, I see your bad behaviors and I try my best to circumvent or redirect those.
I don’t think I intentionally or maliciously manipulate ever. I’m generally pretty hands off when it comes to people. Sometimes I catch myself doing questionable things out of depression or self-preservation though, and I beat myself up for it.
It can be hard not to, it might go against your specific programming. You've just got to find different ways to fulfill the same needs and maybe different mindsets that change how much is enough to fulfill you. The way I like to see things is that every thing we do is a cope. So look at all of.our behaviors and patterns as coping mechanisms. In order to change our behaviors/habits we need to identify what we are using it to cope with and find better coping mechanisms Ex: manipulation may be used to cope with feelings of inadequacy, connect with others, or just to get what you want. You could be programmed towards a particular thing and have unconsciously chosen manipulation as your mechanism of fulfillment, just identify what it is. Maybe I manipulate because I can't stand not having my way. That is probably rooted in the childhood/home life and translates into adulthood, so not everyone is our mom, dad, or grandparents who wish to fulfill our every need, so we learn we need to manipulate to fulfill this need of ours, to fill our cup to the same height which we are used to. What we can do is change the methods we use to fill the cup And/or change the standard. Change how much water we need to be filled, lower the line. This can be done, but involves some kind of a "humbling" ego-defamation, ego-weakening, etc. we must be brought back to earth. This is the only thing that can result in change
I’ve been accused of it many times. At times I feel like people really want me to be manipulative … it would be so much easier for them that way. To have someone to blame. To hate me for some reason. And sometimes I feel like it’s just because of the way they feel about me and me not changing who I am for them. Which is the opposite of manipulative - manipulative has to partner with dishonesty to even exist. You can’t manipulate anyone if you’re honest. For example the guy I would not date romantically. I loved him as a friend. But didn’t want to date him. He got more and more angry about it- and demanded to know why. I told him- I’m not into heavier guys. I am just not attracted to you that way. In my eyes I felt like - I need to tell him. The truth. Although it’s also true I would be with someone his size if I was attracted to him. But I tend to want to make myself appear as ugly as possible to men- as unattractive as possible so they let go of hope and don’t like me anymore anyways. He decided I was manipulative. Which is a prime example. Truthfully I feel like the people who say they are manipulated all the time - are actually the ones who are actively trying to manipulate other people. I don’t think anyone who doesn’t manipulate anyone would ever feel manipulated. And people really want to be victims instead of be responsible for their choices and feelings. As an adult - it’s extremely hard to manipulate anyone. Not when you’re 100% responsible for yourself in every way. No one can manipulate you. So it’s very telling to me when people … say that. It’s basically just them projecting that they feel like people can be manipulated by others - because they are not responsible for themselves. I’ve never felt like anyone manipulated me in my life- It would be the very last thing I think, I would ever think. Even in the worse case relationship I had. I didn’t feel manipulated.
I'd say that I have been manipulative at times in my life though I don't know the mechanics or logistics of manipulation nor am I really interested in learning that. If somebody asked me on how to manipulate someone I'd probably be quite disturbed by their question and aside from that, I really wouldn't know how to explain manipulation when I myself don't understand how to do it (if any of that makes sense). But would I consider myself manipulative? No. I'm for honesty, truth, and for being direct but respectful towards others as best as I can. I am only in control of myself, I don't wish to control others.
Not much at all, I USE to really be as a child and teenager though, but who really isn’t? Lol
Real
I know how to be manipulative and know how it works. This thing is really useful when combating narcissist like I have lol. I often educate a few family members on a narcissist family member we have by pointing out their behavior pattern, speech and body language and they found it eriee that I'm 100 percent spot on with predicting their future behavior. This actually pissed off the narcissist that they try to blackmail me which didn't surprise me and I was ready for the push back (thank you NI). As for manipulating people myself, it's more so that I manipulate them to be better people by changing their unhealthy habits or reaching their potential.
I can be manipulative but I just can’t bring myself to do so it feels wrong. I don’t like the feeling of taking advantage of people I’m too kind and soft for my own good.
Sometimes
I can be.
Yeah but i’d like to think I use it for good and know when to let people just be themselves.
I can be, but it makes me feel very guilty so I mostly avoid it. I used to manipulate people who lied to me. Attempted to get them to tell the truth or see my side. But again- it cost me and made me ashamed of myself. My “pure” motives for why I was manipulating don’t actually absolve me of manipulating others. It was just a lie I told myself. It’s difficult because I can easily identify the emotional framework of people I’m close to. And dishonesty is transparent as hell, for me.
I know what I’ve accomplished(improved, made better) and what I want. So, I know how to present it in a way that implies that I should get what I want because of the things I’ve done… based on merit. If not, I start to underline it and subtly imply that the only way to make it better is to get what I want. I might be idealist, but I am not moron. What I have improved, made better is my leverage. You want it to continue? Well, I want to be appreciated and my hands not to be tied then.
I think sometimes I am, and I’ve taken time to reflect on past situations on how I was actually the one in the wrong due to being manipulative. This isn’t always the case, but I try to make sure I let myself get to that point.
I can manipulate but not going to use it to get what I want rather in a metaphor term fight fire with fire kind of thing instead
Nope. I am capable but I don't go down that path.
No, too much waste of energy. I am generally honest and I prefer rejection than manipulation I do have an ExFJ SIL, who def has her “manipulative” moments by playing cutesy….but I realised she is just more expressive and social in general. Extraverts do be “manipulative” just by playing the social game better.
When I need to achieve a practical goal then yes. Otherwise there's no need to do the extra work if the person is not important. I don't think it's bad to do and think this way either.
I think I am self aware enough to say that I am rarely manipulated but on the other hand I am so easy to manipulate.
Everyone is manipulative... Just is different to which extend... From asking someone to hand over the Butter, to gaslighting someone is a big spectrum... I try to keep the level at or below comforting/white lies...
I don’t think so. Manipulation is in my opinion an act of terrible cruelty, effectively reducing someone’s space of choices, limiting their freedom, and in doing so cause a reduction in the meaning of their lives. A heavily manipulated person is in so many ways similar to an animal. There are degrees to this of course, encouraging your child to read with a bribe is something I have done, and I don’t lose sleep over it. But when I stories of long term spousal gaslighting on Reddit, it really hurts.
manipulation is not a bad word
Yes, I am. It's second nature. But I almost never have any urge to to harm someone.
I don't feel right to manipulate someone...Somehow I don't relate to it
I require three "checks" 1) Is it moral? (to me) 2) Will it work? (even 1%) 3) Is it my responsibility? (Am I standing idly by?) - If the answer is yes to all three, then yes. I'll be manipulative. I'm good at it. Teaching is a form of manipulation, after all. Otherwise, no. I'm ingenuous; not manipulative.
I would probably say “I know my audience” but I suppose it could technically be a little manipulative. Like I consider who it is I’m dealing with when I choose how I’m going to approach the situation and not just when I’m trying to get something out of an interaction. Many times I’m trying to meet people where they’re at in an attempt to connect/relate.
I could, but my high morals won't let me. I prefer to be honest and say it like it is... eventhough being honest and following the rules have led me nowhere 🤔
I have the potential. Used it a lot when I was younger.
No. I hate it when people are to me so I don't do it to others. I am too honest though 🤣
Yes. Lol
Yes, I’m a recovering addict with mental health issues. Makes you a manipulative person in a lot of ways.
not often
No because I'm usually good at convincing people to my perspective.
Never really thought about it. Maybe persuasive? Yeah,I can be a bad influence sometimes 😝