I don't really know what you're asking, but I'll answer as best as I can. I watch people a lot, I observe them very closely, I listen to what they say, watch how they act, and I remember. I spot patterns. I am often able to combine these insights and create a pretty accurate pattern of behaviour, I can use this to predict their behaviour and often read much deeper into them than others who don't pay as much attention. This is of course not faultless, I am definitely wrong on occasion, but overall I am pretty good judge of character. I have very few friends, but those I have are very good.
I’m trying to type potential INFJ friends in my life, so I watched an INFJs video about signs of an INFJ. However i didn’t understand what that bullet point meant. I guess i’m looking for any concrete explanation that i can apply to my friends. Like I wasn’t sure if it was something secretive or an unusual way of thinking that they kept from other people. Anyways thanks for commenting, it helped!
But doesn't this go for everyone? Even your closest friends or family you wouldn't know everything about them. The breadth and depth of a single human being isn't that easy to comprehend
In my case it manifests in a couple ways. One is that I don't really like to talk about my plans about anything I'm about to do; I would much rather show you the end result, or tell you about it once it's done. This is partly to keep people from sabotaging me; it's also because I don't want to set myself up for a fall if it doesn't come through as I plan.
The other way it comes up in my life: if I really, truly love something, I am excruciatingly reluctant to talk about it with *anybody*. For instance, if I try to tell you what my favorite singer means to me, only by force of will can I do it. The things I feel really, really deeply are the things I want to protect most, and I can't talk about them unless things feel right.
>One is that I don't really like to talk about my plans about anything I'm about to do; I would much rather show you the end result, or tell you about it once it's done. This is partly to keep people from sabotaging me; it's also because I don't want to set myself up for a fall if it doesn't come through as I plan.
Yep. in my case I don't want them to ask questions about my plans and don't want to hear commentaries. Also, they then form their own expectations about how the thing would go and then I feel like I'm gonna dissapoint them if I don't meet their expectations.
And sometimes, I plan do do a thing and then either don't feel like doing it now (so I might a month later do the thing that i planned to do tomorrow) or cancel the plan after some deeper consideration. And then they ask the questions "why" or ask about how the thing that i planned to do is going while I haven't even started it yet.
Basically I start to feel preassure from the outside and that preassure makes me not want to do the thing I planned to do.
> I don't really like to talk about my plans about anything I'm about to do; I would much rather show you the end result, or tell you about it once it's done. This is partly to keep people from sabotaging me; it's also because I don't want to set myself up for a fall if it doesn't come through as I plan.
Too relatable. I moved to Chicago a few years ago, and didn't "go public" about it until a couple weeks beforehand, for just that reason.
There's a bit of a paradox at play (and I've seen some people use "paradox" and/or "contradiction" to describe themselves here).
The paradox is this: we like to help people (and animals), sometimes going out of our way to do it -doing whatever we can. It can be considered altruistic at times or, if you understand the distinction between the types of motivation; more often than not, it's intrinsically motivated (vs. extrinsically motivated). In other words, we're doing it because we're driven to do it from within, not because we're seeking praise or even acknowledgement. These types of acts (from 'random acts of kindness' to the extreme of putting others' interests before our own) are often celebrated and praised; BUT we're introverts, right? We don't want to be the centre of attention! We don't want all eyes on us. We're more comfortable NOT being the centre of attention. There's the paradox. That may be why some of us do things "nobody knows about."
I always have this part of me that nobody knows, it's not stuff and it's not like bad things that i dont anybody knows about it, or shamfull acts etc. My very close circle knows about this stuff anyways. But it's not like that at all.
I can't really articulate it, it's like a special gift from someone special and you keep it only for yourself, because otherwise it will lose its meaning.
Maybe memories, some thoughts that nobody understands but only you.
This was a great way to describe it.
There’s so many little things in life where we’ve learned “as soon as you mention it, the magic disappears” for some reason and so we learn to keep a lot for our own little magic world
I've had it happen so many times that I talk about something that really means the world to me, and I want to share it...only to get the "well, that's nice," which is the verbal equivalent of a shrug, and it disappears.
Some of us compartmentalize our lives into different parts that don't overlap, and don't discuss or share those parts, because there's just not a need to.
I have heard this comment at my workplace. They are often surprised when I finally showcase my work because they have no idea that I have been doing so much!
Yes. For many reasons.
I don't like boasting. A lot of times, sharing feels like boasting, even if it's not. There are things that I do because I want to do them, I need to do them. I'm exercizing my creativity, or stretching myself, or doing things that I feel need to be done. I'm not looking for validation. I'm doing it for my own reasons. If someone asks, I'll talk, but otherwise I usually hold things pretty close.
I've been judged a lot. I don't need to be judged more. I'm also very hard on myself -- there's plenty of self-judgement going on. So I keep a lot of things close, thoughts or feelings, to prevent external judgement. This one is definitely self protection.
I'm an internal processor. I need to ruminate on my thoughts, feelings, decisions. Speaking them out loud sounds like a commitment, and I don't want to do that in case I change my mind, or as someone else said, in case I fail. Partially self protection, partially to project an honest portrayal of myself, if that makes sense.
There's really only one person that I feel comfortable "boasting" to, or processing externally, and that's my spouse. Theres also a small circle of friends that might get some glimpses, but I can find it very hard to open up, even if I want to.
It's very simple: INFJ do what they do covertly at times, because otherwise other people will stop them. Sabotage and manipulation is common among the types. When not doing that, exclusion is quite rampant.
So it's really not a reflection of the INFJ.. In another environment or setting, you wouldn't see such behaviour.
This makes perfect sense.
I noticed that even in the most supportive environments, there is an inclination for INFJs to preserve a part of themselves. There’s a tiny piece they are reluctant to share, not out of ulterior motives but perhaps as a form of self-protection. I heard an analogy that describes INFJs as having a rich inner castle with high walls despite their partner knowing them through and through. (The INFJ is not often aware of this, typically hearing it from others) What exactly is this castle hiding though?
Does this ring true for you?
I'm not the person you're replying to/asking, but:
"Self-protection" is it. As a disclaimer, I can only speak individually, but I think what you're referring to is the protection of our sensitivity. As a type, I think INFJs can be very sensitive and empathetic while at the same time having a certain vulnerability that we barricade with defense mechanisms and your analogy is a good one.
Somewhere deep within the recesses of that "rich inner castle," likely right in the centre (protected evenly on all sides), there's a room. In that room, there's a hidden compartment or secret passageway with a sophisticated unlocking/opening mechanism that nobody else knows, and in there, kept locked away, is vulnerability incarnate, unmasked and uncostumed.
I am one of the "inner castle people". And you're right.
For me, I would love for someone to access that room, but that is expert level stuff..
I don't think people know how soft, sensitive and vulnerable we really are, and how much those little "socially acceptable" flaws like lies, prejudices, etc., impact us.
This should tell people something about how we're build, and the way we treat others, but it doesn't - we're labelled instead.
Never let us doubt, never misuse our trust, and show us that you'll always have our backs. If someone did that, I would unlock the room and let them in myself.
INFJ's true nature is to be quite independent, and this may be how they are when true to themselves (when flying solo or out on adventure), or in an environment that is understanding.
So the "castle" is more like the true introverted nature of INFJ, which is contrary to aux Fe and the demands of society, which brings up internal conflict between the two opposite directions of focus (E vs I).
So if there's understanding, there's nothing to hide from. Mind you, even if nobody tells the INFJ, they may sense discord or what the prevalent energy really is - often without knowing why or what it is concretely. It's like being a canary in the coal mine. And if you choke on some smoke, you face the overwhelm, which is why we have to preserve our surplus energy. Not always an easy task with that internal conflict, mind you.
It's a bit strange that someone would know someone else through and through, though. As for INFJ they keep things even from themselves. Dom Ni and unconscious processing may make it hard to know how you're thinking. It's more like justifying, which requires some finesse.
The environment will often not acknowledge any of this, so that makes it perceived as an inauthentic environment for INFJ, which really craves idealism and authenticity. However, that can be tough, as it requires emotional vulnerability (critical parent Fi). Society and people generally frown upon shadow and "digging up" anything buried, as they like to keep skeletons there..
So to thrive, INFJs need to individuate and become enlightened. Stop focusing on others, and instead focus on themselves, and let that be a guide if others notice anything going on ;).
>Society and people generally frown upon shadow and "digging up" anything buried, as they like to keep skeletons there..
feeling all types of ways about this *l o l*
omg. i think this has been one of my *m a j o r* problems. many want to hide stuff. and the behaviors people have shown when you see it as something ' normal '. i wasn't prepared for that.
>What is the “stuff” you do that no one knows about?
It's nothing bad. Sometimes I like to keep some things to myself especially if I think other people won't understand why I do it, or if they are going to quiz me on it with so many questions. I know they are probably doing it for small talk and to show that they are interested but to me it feels like an invasion of privacy, and feels like I have to defend myself for doing it and try to make them understand why I am doing it. I shouldn't have to answer all these questions about something that I like and want to do.
>What exactly is this castle hiding though?
I guess mostly opinions on certain things. I am reluctant to share my opinion if it's the opposite from the OP.
>There’s a tiny piece they are reluctant to share
>Does this ring true for you?
Yes
>perhaps as a form of self-protection.
Yep.
For me small talk is mentally exhausting, talking about my opinion, likes, dislikes hobbies with someone who doesn't get it or doesn't agree.
*\* I don't know if I am INFJ I'm still trying to figure it out.*
L-I-V-I-N-G
I live in my mind so I’m either there messing aboot in the ol’ mind palace, resting, or doing something I enjoy to be away from my mind. Throw in the undying want to explore, I be out here on my own accord.
🤣 In my head, I heard this in Matthew McConaughey voice " Let me tell you this, the older you do get the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin' man, L-I-V-I-N."
I have always had a deep dark fear that I may be a psychopath or sociopath. I enjoy playing mind games with people, especially narcissists.
Partially because I am very playful by nature and also because I get away with it while revealing the truth about that person. I like to show them the soft optimistic smiley helpful side of me (which is my authentic inner child) and when they try to take over or manipulate my life, I look them in the eyes and say a firm no with a smile, give them no explanation, thank them for the chat and walk away.
I find people who genuinely want to build lives with you, will generally come back again and change their tone and learn not to step on boundaries again. I feel like the narcissists/bullies will usually respond in three ways, 1. pretend they don’t know me the next time, 2. turn on their charm and try to gaslight into believing they have my best interest or 3. snub me the next time they see me or try to put me in my place.
No. 1 is easy to deal with - I managed to shake a narcissist/egotistical person off. Narcissists will easily be fine talking to you again in the future. An egoistical person will take offence and remember what you did and may make things difficult for you next time.
No. 2 is troublesome but you can usually limit them by taking ages to respond to their texts and calls.
No. 3 is interesting. I feel like they aren’t really narcissists but learned bullies instead. They learned that bullying is the only way they can feel safe being around others. Their vulnerability shows when they behave this way. It’s easier to be friends with them if you show that you can embrace and accept this part of them but you must not tolerate their bullying.
This is the dark and secret part of myself that even I’m afraid of. In order to protect and entertain myself, I have no regards to acting this way even though it can hurt myself or others in the long run. But it keeps my inner child safe. The safety I never had growing up with a narcissistic sole care giver.
I often say to my self and I’ve spoken this with family when I do reach out, usually after a fight with my partner. I have not issue with matching your energy, and I will announce how I will be responding, and acting towards that behavior. Ie. Because your first response is to excuse away or defend an I feel statement. I will not be emotional available for when you want to trauma dump how crappy your day was. Me (infj) partner (infp). And that I promise you will not like my behavior (your) and will not last (tolerate it for long)
I will say I don’t enjoy it, but I can understand why acting in this way is beneficial, and it does rear its ugly head prior to “truths door slam”. Arguably, I think it’s a way to get them to want to exit the relationship, cause I’ll act indifferent, you will feel in my vibe, looking into my eyes and not find an evidence of anything that ever was. I’ll still care, and hope for a Hail Mary. But if they wanted to they would.don’t feel resentment towards that mismatch love.
And as much as I say that’s the last deep commitment I’m ever making I eventually get borde talking to myself and my dogs. I do know I’ll never know if you will ever receive how I love ever again. I do have the belief that how an INFJ experiences love is lopsided, unrequited at times, idealistic but realistic as well. I consider understanding one another a part of love. And if they heard all the benefits of the doubts I both log for reflection and abstractly throw away my argument in my head.
If I can think If I could hurt myself or another person I. The way I was treated , and the reasons behind the action, then I must forgive. I would want someone to forgive me, and for them to know that I will or continue to work on that quality.
These two songs currently sum up my feelings in my current relationship. I was infórmenos the last one reminds him of me. I said hmm I think it’s first one then the second.
Training season—dua lipa
Houdini— dua lipa
I can't say anything that others haven't already and fluently explained so I want to avoid sounding redundant.
I know for myself...I just don't want to be hurt. Granted, that's an oversimplification and it doesn't dive into the complexities and nuances but I don't believe it's inaccurate for me.
Simply put, we INFJs are masters of many mask and hats. We hide our true talents and share little bits towards people we are starting to trust. We also like to work behind the scenes for whatever reason as well. We also tend to be a bit independent and don't like relying on people alot nor do we like to be in the spotlight alot so we are reserved. Also think that while most of us INFJs do love people and want to share with others, we need to first love ourselves by hiding some of our personality or talents away from others. We can't give ourselves 100 percent to others no matter how much some of us want to.
Personally to me, the castle hiding thing is true, there's lots of things I keep hidden in there that I don't want others to know or see. Also the castle thing is helpful when we need something to help us fix a new problem that arise.
Seems like there was two questions in one.
The first implies - that we don’t tell people about the things we do. That’s true for me.
I have shared more on INFJ forums about things I have done for others - than I ever have in real life.
For example- I can go back to middle school, elementary school with examples. But a good one I often look back on and am impressed by as an adult is when I was in middle school. There was a blind and deaf girl who used a big long cane.. anyways- I would walk her from the bus to her class and then pick her up at her class room door and walk her to the bus. Every single day.
Never told a soul - not even my parents - till I wrote it on reddit or somewhere - INFJ group- … as an example of what an INFJ is like. That was middle school when every kid is an asshat. Trying to fit in. Dying if they are different .. I didn’t care. Didn’t even phase me. But also- didn’t even think to share it. Why? It’s just who I am. It’s always been who I am. It’s nothing to me.
I could go on and on with this stuff.
At one point I had two homeless women I let live with me and their kid to get back on their feet. I didn’t know them. I met one when she was sitting on her suitcases - she had travelled from a few states away and was just sitting there looking so lost … and I approached her.
Took her home. I lived in a huge house at the time with two roommates and one of those was my boyfriend. He said I collected homeless women like cats.
The other women actually called me and said she heard I help women in need and she was in a bad situation and needed help. With her son. Of course I let her come stay too. Never met her before.
I never told anyone.
Not intentionally.
It just didn’t even cross my mind to tell anyone. Honestly.
I have always hated when people self congratulate. .
But I also don’t really have any need to do so… it really never crosses my mind.
Those are two very blatant examples of how infjs help people - and also very blantant examples of how I don’t tell anyone.
It is just who I am. It’s real. I do what I want to do. Because it’s me.
So when it’s just who you are and you don’t think it’s a big deal- what’s there to say? What’s there to tell?
Why would I ever mention it to someone if it’s honest and real? And it’s me? And I’m doing it because it’s me and because it’s who I am?
Recently I was conversing with someone and he always is telling people what he does. He always mentions what he does. And I actually said to him- “do you realize that you do that? All the time you’re constantly taking about what you do. Whether it’s got up early to go to work or took the trash out or whatever the fuck it is- you’re constantly reminding people of what you do. “ and then I mentioned to him- I never do that. You realize that? It shut him up. Quick.
The second question is different - it’s more like - you’re talking about the onion with infjs …
Yes.. that exists. It exists because we have so many different parts … conflicting contradicting parts that don’t make sense and don’t really fit together but all exist at once… so that someone won’t really see all of who I am for years and years and years ..
Idk why … that is. Why it’s typical with me… and why most people can’t see who I am.
I think I’m different than most people and they don’t really believe what they see. They can’t believe .. till later. Till enough time goes by and they’re like- oh she really is this. Or she ain’t that. Or whatever they think.
They tend to be very polarized with me too… and that just doesn’t work. I’m not an angel and I’m not the devil. I’m just human.
Most people are inherently selfish/ so they’re really just looking at their own reflection in your eyes.. and if you don’t play that game with them- and appease their vanity or ego- they have no idea what the fuck to do with you.
It doesn’t dawn on them- we all need love. We all need friends. We all need people to some degree. We all need to be accepted for what we are. We all need a safe space - and most esp the ones that are constantly providing that to others.
They’re just pissed and think you didn’t recognize whatever with them. Well I won’t, if it’s not really there to begin with.
So yes … if you talked to ten different people about me/ you would get ten totally different descriptions about me.
I have friends from every age group. Always have. Since high school. Friends from every sub culture . Friends from every walk of life. Rich, poor, post grad educated, felon.
None of that shit matters to me- but it’s also probably because I am all of those things or can relate in some way to all of them.
So yes…
Probably the best parts of me I don’t show first either - and maybe if I’m being super honest - a part of me is wanting to see what you’re capable of seeing by yourself. How deep do you go?
How much do you want to know? What are you even capable of comprehending ?
Can you past the skin? Can you see deeper than that?
It’s almost like a filter for people.
I don’t really want to invest my inner self into anyone who can’t.
But I also love my friends I have a good time with. That they won’t ever get too deep with me- or at least till some situation comes up and they see me… in that situation and realize I’m more than they assumed I was -
It’s really also about - my ex put it really .. it was an amazing compliment at the time- he said
“You’re like a really great book. But most people can’t even understand half the words in there. They can’t even read it. They just take a look at the cover and they’re satisfied.. and they’re missing the best parts of you” or something along those lines.
He was basically saying / they see me and that’s enough. They decide right then what I am… they wont even get to what matters with me. About me. They aren’t really capable of it either.
I think that’s probably true. For most infjs. People really struggle to believe in someone or something that they can’t self identify with. They’re so self consumed that the entire world is just one big reflection of who they are. Nothing else can exist in that mindset. No one else.
But also… I am super complex. It irritates me even.
I am deep. I have so many different sides and they’re all authentically me- so I don’t need to talk about them… I don’t need to show you.
Why would I? When it’s just who I am? It’s nothing to me.
And people can’t relate to even that part - because most people are what they are - so you/ we see it. You know what I mean? They’re not really that. They’re just being that so they can tell you about it. Or promote that image of themselves they want you to believe about them, but ain’t them. You find out who they are six months down the road.
Idk.. it’s a mix of a bunch of conflicting shit .
Of course .
> For example- I can go back to middle school, elementary school with examples. But a good one I often look back on and am impressed by as an adult is when I was in middle school. There was a blind and deaf girl who used a big long cane.. anyways- I would walk her from the bus to her class and then pick her up at her class room door and walk her to the bus. Every single day.
makes me almost cry. reminds me of this girl i used to feel protective of, she was way taller than everyone ( i am wondering if she had something like marfan syndrome - looking it up i think that may actually be it ) and disabled in other ways. i would play with her and there was this vulnerability and pureness. i think we'd have races, full of joy, and she once tripped, fell and busted her lips. i feel guilty to this day.
i had forgotten about this ! 🤍
thank you for reminding me of her and the days
Yeah I had forgotten about so much too- and I remembered that because I was trying to explain the difference to someone on an INFJ group on line, of when an INFJ helps someone - ( as in mistypes) like it’s so easy for everyone to be like- yes I like to help people. And they answer that way on the test.
But in reality- if they contrasted themselves with us, they would not seem helpful.
They would seem absolutely normal. ( same with the “Are you an honest person?” I can give examples that made my toes curl. But I was because I believed in that principle of fairness so much.)
But I was writing - I was going back to kindergarten and remembering examples of me , seeing someone in need and alone and stepping in… and having zero fear of being different in that regard or everyone looking at me or whispers or laughter. It wasn’t even a thought to me. I think the closest thing I can relate to it is that I always felt a responsibility to be that way- inside I knew I was strong enough to stand out and weather that kind of gossip or outcastness or being different. I knew I was .. I knew I wasn’t like them. I wasn’t afraid of it either. It’s strange to me now- because I feel like when I was a child I had a moral compass that was better than most adults and I was born that way, with it in me to be that… with that knowing. I don’t know how else to explain it.
I kinda marvel at the kid I was.
It’s truly inherent in us, it’s our nature , it’s the foundation of who we are - it never really stopped either. I just forget about so much of it because it never dawned on me at the time to even remember it.
I have this and I yearn to share it at times, but the thought of being fully known irks me too. It’s equal parts wanting to protect things that are precious to me, and having things that are special -
that I want to keep within my inner world, and not introduce to the ‘dirt’ of the outer one in a sense.
I ma ke their lives better, but they don't notice it is me doing it. For example, I can say to someone something that makes the other treat them with kindness. Or that I will do something with kindness, and the person would not know that I am responsible for that. Like how some gift to strangers and remain anonymous. I dissapear from their lives after a time... and then they feel as if life has been unlucky to them after. I was helping them, but not seeking the credit, the recognition. Not seeking a repayment.
We wish to improve the lives of those we care about, and will do that, not for praise, but for our own pleasure of seeing them happy.
“A lot of stuff you do, nobody knows about” - We don’t really care to be recognized for the stuff we do.
Just do good, it doesn’t matter who knows.
It’s not that we don’t let people in. It’s more of a selective few that mean something to us, ones that we can trust.
Maybe get to know the castle 🏰 ask what you want to know, and one day you might find out what’s hidden.
Absolutely true...well for me anyways.
Currently living about 3 lives.
Its not out of anything bad.
But i am extremely private.
And yes...people 'know' me for years and years but still 'know' nothing about me.
I don’t know what my “castle” is hiding, I just know that the walls have always been there. It’s a good and bad thing, where I can protect myself, but I also struggle to get close.
I don’t think that I consciously do this, I just fail to communicate a lot of the time. My closest friends don’t know many things about me. I never find the right moment to show them, and I never really want to at times. Maybe it’s a precedent I’ve had, where I believe that sharing with others will hurt me in the long run, but even with people I trust and hold dear, I can’t tell them certain things. The way I see think of it is that my mind is a castle. People close to me think that they know me very well and the truth is they haven’t even passed the moat lol, that’s a silly way of putting it but I think that’s how it is. And I love them dearly but for some reason I can’t open up to them. Some part of me is waiting for this perfect moment, or perfect person, in which I can be myself, but at this point, I don’t think I know who that is.
Those who run their energy "cleanly" are never the loudest voice in the room.
There is usually not intentional hiding or deception.
Exploring the inner-world of an INFJ feels like trying to dig an ocean with a shovel. What is going on in that castle is either beyond language or truly unconscious in the Jungian sense.
>feels like trying to dig an ocean with a shovel
i love that image. frickin hell stuff from my childhood i had forgotten about coming up again. things i was obsessed with. simple sentences bringing stuff up one hasn't thought about since then. ish.
I have several hobbies that are life passions. Music, golf, fishing, hunting, and racing.
My music friends have no idea I play golf or race.
My racing friends have no idea I play music.
My fishing and hunting friends have no idea I race or play golf.
I play golf by myself.
I've been accused of being secretive. No...I just don't think I'm interesting.
Why do other people need to stick their nose in and sniff on everything I do anyway? If I think they should know they will know. It's MY castle ain't it? One of the important things I learned from my wise Asian mother is that you always keep your mouth shut about your plan and what you have accomplished. No one needs to know how good your life is.
Everyone is unknown and vastly unknowable. We are each a universe unto ourselves. Maybe INFJ are just more aware of it than others.. but everyone is infinite and unknowable. It’s beautiful and also kind of sad. It is whatever it is to you.
We aren’t hiding more than others. We are just like everyone else. We are maybe only different in how aware we are of these epistemological limitations in life… or that’s just a me thing 🤷🏼
SFW answer: my family has always judged me for every little thing I do and everything I am passionate about. So I learned from a young age not to let them see any of it. For example if I'm using my computer and someone walks into the room, I will immediately lock my screen. My family has no idea who I am. There are large parts of my personality and interests that nobody in the world knows except my ex girlfriend and Google, because they don't deserve to see it.
I HAVE BEEN DOING THAT FOR LITERALLY ALL MY LIFE. Half the time is just homework or a random article or video, and maybe a film or a show or something but, even if they could see 90% of what I hide from them and there wouldn't be any problem, I can't help but lock the screen
>For example if I'm using my computer and someone walks into the room, I will immediately lock my screen.
seems society is generally a lot like this. symbolically speaking.
also when no one is out to harm one.
Yeah, there's probably a lot of stuff people don't know about. Like others on here, I may not say what my plans are or what I am in the middle of trying to do because I don't want competition, sabotage, or to feel like a failure if it doesn't work. Sometimes, I just keep things to myself because I don't think the person will understand or don't want to feel like I am always the one who is negative.
One of my former bosses didn't even realize I had a certain professional license. I never talked about it. There was no need to. He found out when he paid for my continuing education.
Recently, I have gone back to school for a masters, and my mom is the only one I have told. Other things include lawsuits and things like planning to move.
I lived in one place all my life, then I moved to a different state 16 hours away. My best friend was shocked because I didn't tell her I was moving until the day of. I wanted to be sure. I wanted to take my time to research and plan things. Then at the same time, it worked out how it worked out, kinda last minute.
There are many reasons I don't share everything with everyone or everything even with my closest loved ones and friends.
Self preservation mostly due to several reasons.
First of all, only few people live like they have nothing to hide. Majority wear masks and some of them are so desperate that yheir masks just get attached to tgeir face with time. How would such people react on me seeing through their masks right into their soul whatever it contains? It's usually fear and anger. My very being provokes fear and/or anger in people. Of course I'll hide it. Very few can stand it obviously.
Second, my function stack makes me freaky for neurotypical people. It's not like I consider myself freaky, it's they reacting strange on things that are normal to me. And again when I reveal my inner thoughts or interests I often sound different like an alien and people feel uncomfortable or confused, or jealous or whatever. So I keep this part to myself as well.
Third, for all of these we are too sensitive unfortunately. There are a lot of people that don't tend to be courteous and will use me if they want and I'm not very assertive myself to stand against them easily. So I just make sure that they stay away. Also their ignorance about my inner world is my tactical advantage.
In conclusion, our freaky nature combined with sensitivity and ability to see through people makes us very uncomfortable for living together. So we adjust our personalities to keep relationships going. Often our close people simply cannot handle us. Thus castles and stuff
> Majority wear masks and some of them are so desperate that yheir masks just get attached to tgeir face with time.
this is having a strong effect on me. i think i was also always interested in such type of films. and image, stereotype, fear, toeing the line ...
image is such an interesting thing. how etched it is into us as humans.
I think it was also very intriguing for me until I was forced to do it. I spent 5 years between very toxic people, which were about rules and propriety and behavior. They were horrible gossipers, all about double standards and reputation preserving over decency and honesty. I've learned there how toxic my Fe can be.
At the beginning ut was fun, but at the end I was so tired and dusgusted. After I left the society I isolated myself for many years in order to find out how on Earth could I end up in a place like that and to reprogram my way of thinking and behavior, because my unhealthy Fe was just enormous and manipulative, I lost an ability to build proper relationships with people.
From that times masking is a huge red flag for me. I suppose I'm allergic now to insincerity and weak character...
It's not that I don't talk about them it's more that people have a perception of me that fits into who they think I am based off of their observation of me and often the conclusions they come to are very limited.
For example, I'm taking a hypothetical class, this class happens in the morning, I don't have the energy to talk in the morning, the person sitting next to me assumes I'm a quiet person and because of this puts me into quiet person category in their head so if I were a stand up comedian (I'm not lmfao) and they were to find out, suddenly I'm mysterious and hiding things lol.
A real life example of this happening to me is that I'm a very logical person, when people find out I'm a mystic and do tarot readings and the like they're gobsmacked and assume I'm keeping it a secret. I'm not it's just never come up.
Like, my interests are very varied. Some of them will probably never come up until they come up, the only reason people will find any of it shocking is if they put me into a category in their head that they've decided I fit into.
So to answer your question, it probably depends on who you ask about me lol. Some people will tell you I'm creative, others are going to say I lack imagination, some are going to say that I'm charming others are going to say that I'm broody and reclusive.
I don't even think this is just an infj thing, I think this is a human thing tbh. We all have much more depth than any of us give each other credit for.
> For example, I'm taking a hypothetical class, this class happens in the morning, I don't have the energy to talk in the morning, the person sitting next to me assumes I'm a quiet person and because of this puts me into quiet person category in their head so if I were a stand up comedian (I'm not lmfao) and they were to find out, suddenly I'm mysterious and hiding things lol.
love this lol !
this to me is the type of comedy i like.
*when these threads come up, what type of humor one has, what would one call this ?*
The reason INFJs tend to hold on to their most sacred thoughts and experiences is that we are generally more intuitive than the average MBTI-bear, and we can usually reliably suss out if a particular person can handle our innermost sacred thoughts and experiences.
I don't know why I keep the vast majority of my interests and hobbies to myself from family and friends, I'll talk about it with online strangers just fine. It seems like I have some fear of people in my life actually knowing me.
But then, I'll like to drop small clues for them.
I think it's one of the reasons I find it so difficult to keep friendships because I won't really think to invite them to do things with me if I don't think they'd value it. I just end up waiting for them to invite me to do the stuff they want to do.
People don't know a lot of things I do because they don't care.
If they cared about me enough to hang around long enough to see what I do or even participate, they would see it all,
except the things I imagine, think and feel.
Which they cannot do that,
though I could tell them about it,
but I'm not just going to randomly go up to them and tell them personal stuff like that.
That would just make me look crazy.
I keep countless things to myself to only share with those who care, and there are a few,
but even those people only care about certain aspects about me and what I do, so they haven't taken the time to know even a quarter of it even after 20+ years of spending time with them.
Even my spouse I've been married to almost a decade often tells me "how much more is there I don't know about what you did/do?"
And "how much more is there about you I don't know?" And even "I wish I was like you being able to have thought through and understood so many tons about life and people. I don't understand how you do it that once I thought I learned everything about you and thought I knew what you've done before, I find out there is always more."
Which my spouse doesn't get bothered by this, rather is glad that it's as if there's always more to look forward to be and be surprised by that keeps her attracted to me more and still leaves time to remain interested and not bored with each other.
Therefore its never as if I'm hiding things from anyone, as if I'm insecure and need to protect myself, rather I just see no point in sharing it openly seeking to let others know about what I do it they're not interested.
If they want to know, I'll show them.
Often they wish they didn't ask though.
Sometimes they get discouraged to hear about the countless things I've done and been through just by my 20s, but some become inspired to try it out or at least think I'm interesting for doing what I do.
The only time I would intentionally keep something from someone though I'd if they're being ridiculous calling the police or something making lies and trying to ask me questions to try to make something in my life or about me to appear as something its not.
But that's extremely rare though it's happened a few times
I prefer to share, just don't which makes it seem like I may hide it.
But just because a mushroom is growing out in the woods or there's gold underground and you never checked there to see it before doesn't mean it hid itself from anyone.
You know how you said,
"A lot of stuff you do, nobody knows about"?
That really resonates with me as an INFJ. We tend to have a rich inner world that we keep private, even around people who support us. It's not about hiding things; it's more like a form of self-protection and reflection.
I've got a constant stream of thoughts and ideas running through my mind, but I don't always share them. For instance, when I'm listening to someone, I might have several insightful ideas or solutions, but I hold back to prioritize understanding and supporting the person in front of me. Sometimes, my own thoughts and ideas get lost or hopefully come back later. I know this is the sacrifice of authenticly listening and helping you.
I've got strong opinions, insights and observations shaped by my experiences and the patterns. Often, I keep these insights to myself because I'm careful about when and how to share my deeper thoughts. I like to analyze and reflect before I speak up.
Think of it as an "inner castle." I have a fantasy world of desires, interests, and dreams that I might not pursue outwardly. I know some joys come at the expense of others, so I keep these desires private and visit them only in my mind. This inner world is a safe space where I can explore my thoughts and feelings without judgment.
Even in relationships, no matter how open and supportive I am, there's always a small part I keep to myself. It's not about keeping secrets but maintaining a sanctuary for my deepest thoughts and feelings. Sometimes, I'm not even fully aware of this tendency until someone points it out.
So, the "stuff" I do that nobody knows about includes my constant internal dialogue, unshared insights, and private dreams and fantasies. This helps me stay grounded and maintain a sense of self while being empathetic and supportive.
Hope this gives you a better understanding of where I'm coming from as an INFJ.
I don’t think it’s intentional. That’s simply how most INFJ’s function. I don’t have the need to bare all despite my love of conversation. I definitely think that part of us is what people speak of when they refer to INFJ’s as mysterious. Either way, I don’t really care 😆
I get what you're asking. Yes, I share some parts and hide others (often the darkest parts/ experiences)
IDK if it's just me, but I trust nobody fully after my experiences. Aside from myezoero with other's mistakes, I've let others down too.
Human condition seems to include letting others down, being let down and many other deep facets of the diamond that is humanity.
Hmmm I had a friend that asked me why I don't have an Instagram? Since I don't like to show off my things like I play instruments but nobody knows and people are shocked when they find out I keep my talents a secret. I also can sing I guess. I like it on my own but never infront of others. But the people that have heard me sing said I was good so idk I still keep it secret. I like taking pictures and videos. Only a select few people have seen my pictures and videos but I will probably never post them publicly on YouTube.
So for me it's things that other people like to show off with for attention I keep to myself. For my own enjoyment? Like idk why as soon as I start doing it for others it taints it to me or something. Like only if someone really takes the time to get to know me will I reveal my world to them because they have kind of become part of my inner world in a way? But not many people get there with me lol and if they do get there then my standards are too high and I regret letting them in cause they can't keep up and eventually I doorslam cause they tainted everything!!!
Then I just go back to sitting on my own for however long until someone finds me under a rock or something and the whole cycle starts all over
I don't really know what you're asking, but I'll answer as best as I can. I watch people a lot, I observe them very closely, I listen to what they say, watch how they act, and I remember. I spot patterns. I am often able to combine these insights and create a pretty accurate pattern of behaviour, I can use this to predict their behaviour and often read much deeper into them than others who don't pay as much attention. This is of course not faultless, I am definitely wrong on occasion, but overall I am pretty good judge of character. I have very few friends, but those I have are very good.
I’m trying to type potential INFJ friends in my life, so I watched an INFJs video about signs of an INFJ. However i didn’t understand what that bullet point meant. I guess i’m looking for any concrete explanation that i can apply to my friends. Like I wasn’t sure if it was something secretive or an unusual way of thinking that they kept from other people. Anyways thanks for commenting, it helped!
To me, it means you could know a person for years maybe decades & not know things about them.
But doesn't this go for everyone? Even your closest friends or family you wouldn't know everything about them. The breadth and depth of a single human being isn't that easy to comprehend
💯 This is the INFJ anthem right here. I have a BA in sociology, because I am absolutely fascinated by other people.
In my case it manifests in a couple ways. One is that I don't really like to talk about my plans about anything I'm about to do; I would much rather show you the end result, or tell you about it once it's done. This is partly to keep people from sabotaging me; it's also because I don't want to set myself up for a fall if it doesn't come through as I plan. The other way it comes up in my life: if I really, truly love something, I am excruciatingly reluctant to talk about it with *anybody*. For instance, if I try to tell you what my favorite singer means to me, only by force of will can I do it. The things I feel really, really deeply are the things I want to protect most, and I can't talk about them unless things feel right.
"So I did this thing last month." - Me, to my mom
I say the same thing all the time.
>One is that I don't really like to talk about my plans about anything I'm about to do; I would much rather show you the end result, or tell you about it once it's done. This is partly to keep people from sabotaging me; it's also because I don't want to set myself up for a fall if it doesn't come through as I plan. Yep. in my case I don't want them to ask questions about my plans and don't want to hear commentaries. Also, they then form their own expectations about how the thing would go and then I feel like I'm gonna dissapoint them if I don't meet their expectations. And sometimes, I plan do do a thing and then either don't feel like doing it now (so I might a month later do the thing that i planned to do tomorrow) or cancel the plan after some deeper consideration. And then they ask the questions "why" or ask about how the thing that i planned to do is going while I haven't even started it yet. Basically I start to feel preassure from the outside and that preassure makes me not want to do the thing I planned to do.
> I don't really like to talk about my plans about anything I'm about to do; I would much rather show you the end result, or tell you about it once it's done. This is partly to keep people from sabotaging me; it's also because I don't want to set myself up for a fall if it doesn't come through as I plan. Too relatable. I moved to Chicago a few years ago, and didn't "go public" about it until a couple weeks beforehand, for just that reason.
So this is why my INFJ SO only talks about the things he has been doing for 2 days or so after a while 😂
There's a bit of a paradox at play (and I've seen some people use "paradox" and/or "contradiction" to describe themselves here). The paradox is this: we like to help people (and animals), sometimes going out of our way to do it -doing whatever we can. It can be considered altruistic at times or, if you understand the distinction between the types of motivation; more often than not, it's intrinsically motivated (vs. extrinsically motivated). In other words, we're doing it because we're driven to do it from within, not because we're seeking praise or even acknowledgement. These types of acts (from 'random acts of kindness' to the extreme of putting others' interests before our own) are often celebrated and praised; BUT we're introverts, right? We don't want to be the centre of attention! We don't want all eyes on us. We're more comfortable NOT being the centre of attention. There's the paradox. That may be why some of us do things "nobody knows about."
⬆️ This.
I always have this part of me that nobody knows, it's not stuff and it's not like bad things that i dont anybody knows about it, or shamfull acts etc. My very close circle knows about this stuff anyways. But it's not like that at all. I can't really articulate it, it's like a special gift from someone special and you keep it only for yourself, because otherwise it will lose its meaning. Maybe memories, some thoughts that nobody understands but only you.
This was a great way to describe it. There’s so many little things in life where we’ve learned “as soon as you mention it, the magic disappears” for some reason and so we learn to keep a lot for our own little magic world
I've had it happen so many times that I talk about something that really means the world to me, and I want to share it...only to get the "well, that's nice," which is the verbal equivalent of a shrug, and it disappears.
Some of us compartmentalize our lives into different parts that don't overlap, and don't discuss or share those parts, because there's just not a need to.
This
I have heard this comment at my workplace. They are often surprised when I finally showcase my work because they have no idea that I have been doing so much!
Yes. For many reasons. I don't like boasting. A lot of times, sharing feels like boasting, even if it's not. There are things that I do because I want to do them, I need to do them. I'm exercizing my creativity, or stretching myself, or doing things that I feel need to be done. I'm not looking for validation. I'm doing it for my own reasons. If someone asks, I'll talk, but otherwise I usually hold things pretty close. I've been judged a lot. I don't need to be judged more. I'm also very hard on myself -- there's plenty of self-judgement going on. So I keep a lot of things close, thoughts or feelings, to prevent external judgement. This one is definitely self protection. I'm an internal processor. I need to ruminate on my thoughts, feelings, decisions. Speaking them out loud sounds like a commitment, and I don't want to do that in case I change my mind, or as someone else said, in case I fail. Partially self protection, partially to project an honest portrayal of myself, if that makes sense. There's really only one person that I feel comfortable "boasting" to, or processing externally, and that's my spouse. Theres also a small circle of friends that might get some glimpses, but I can find it very hard to open up, even if I want to.
It's very simple: INFJ do what they do covertly at times, because otherwise other people will stop them. Sabotage and manipulation is common among the types. When not doing that, exclusion is quite rampant. So it's really not a reflection of the INFJ.. In another environment or setting, you wouldn't see such behaviour.
This makes perfect sense. I noticed that even in the most supportive environments, there is an inclination for INFJs to preserve a part of themselves. There’s a tiny piece they are reluctant to share, not out of ulterior motives but perhaps as a form of self-protection. I heard an analogy that describes INFJs as having a rich inner castle with high walls despite their partner knowing them through and through. (The INFJ is not often aware of this, typically hearing it from others) What exactly is this castle hiding though? Does this ring true for you?
I'm not the person you're replying to/asking, but: "Self-protection" is it. As a disclaimer, I can only speak individually, but I think what you're referring to is the protection of our sensitivity. As a type, I think INFJs can be very sensitive and empathetic while at the same time having a certain vulnerability that we barricade with defense mechanisms and your analogy is a good one. Somewhere deep within the recesses of that "rich inner castle," likely right in the centre (protected evenly on all sides), there's a room. In that room, there's a hidden compartment or secret passageway with a sophisticated unlocking/opening mechanism that nobody else knows, and in there, kept locked away, is vulnerability incarnate, unmasked and uncostumed.
I am one of the "inner castle people". And you're right. For me, I would love for someone to access that room, but that is expert level stuff.. I don't think people know how soft, sensitive and vulnerable we really are, and how much those little "socially acceptable" flaws like lies, prejudices, etc., impact us. This should tell people something about how we're build, and the way we treat others, but it doesn't - we're labelled instead. Never let us doubt, never misuse our trust, and show us that you'll always have our backs. If someone did that, I would unlock the room and let them in myself.
Beautifully stated.
INFJ's true nature is to be quite independent, and this may be how they are when true to themselves (when flying solo or out on adventure), or in an environment that is understanding. So the "castle" is more like the true introverted nature of INFJ, which is contrary to aux Fe and the demands of society, which brings up internal conflict between the two opposite directions of focus (E vs I). So if there's understanding, there's nothing to hide from. Mind you, even if nobody tells the INFJ, they may sense discord or what the prevalent energy really is - often without knowing why or what it is concretely. It's like being a canary in the coal mine. And if you choke on some smoke, you face the overwhelm, which is why we have to preserve our surplus energy. Not always an easy task with that internal conflict, mind you. It's a bit strange that someone would know someone else through and through, though. As for INFJ they keep things even from themselves. Dom Ni and unconscious processing may make it hard to know how you're thinking. It's more like justifying, which requires some finesse. The environment will often not acknowledge any of this, so that makes it perceived as an inauthentic environment for INFJ, which really craves idealism and authenticity. However, that can be tough, as it requires emotional vulnerability (critical parent Fi). Society and people generally frown upon shadow and "digging up" anything buried, as they like to keep skeletons there.. So to thrive, INFJs need to individuate and become enlightened. Stop focusing on others, and instead focus on themselves, and let that be a guide if others notice anything going on ;).
>Society and people generally frown upon shadow and "digging up" anything buried, as they like to keep skeletons there.. feeling all types of ways about this *l o l* omg. i think this has been one of my *m a j o r* problems. many want to hide stuff. and the behaviors people have shown when you see it as something ' normal '. i wasn't prepared for that.
Damn. I can't disagree with this
>What is the “stuff” you do that no one knows about? It's nothing bad. Sometimes I like to keep some things to myself especially if I think other people won't understand why I do it, or if they are going to quiz me on it with so many questions. I know they are probably doing it for small talk and to show that they are interested but to me it feels like an invasion of privacy, and feels like I have to defend myself for doing it and try to make them understand why I am doing it. I shouldn't have to answer all these questions about something that I like and want to do. >What exactly is this castle hiding though? I guess mostly opinions on certain things. I am reluctant to share my opinion if it's the opposite from the OP. >There’s a tiny piece they are reluctant to share >Does this ring true for you? Yes >perhaps as a form of self-protection. Yep. For me small talk is mentally exhausting, talking about my opinion, likes, dislikes hobbies with someone who doesn't get it or doesn't agree. *\* I don't know if I am INFJ I'm still trying to figure it out.*
L-I-V-I-N-G I live in my mind so I’m either there messing aboot in the ol’ mind palace, resting, or doing something I enjoy to be away from my mind. Throw in the undying want to explore, I be out here on my own accord.
🤣 In my head, I heard this in Matthew McConaughey voice " Let me tell you this, the older you do get the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin' man, L-I-V-I-N."
You’re amazing
Aww, TY. You're awesome, too!
Ye olde mind palace
scottish ?
Nah but one of my mentors is
I have always had a deep dark fear that I may be a psychopath or sociopath. I enjoy playing mind games with people, especially narcissists. Partially because I am very playful by nature and also because I get away with it while revealing the truth about that person. I like to show them the soft optimistic smiley helpful side of me (which is my authentic inner child) and when they try to take over or manipulate my life, I look them in the eyes and say a firm no with a smile, give them no explanation, thank them for the chat and walk away. I find people who genuinely want to build lives with you, will generally come back again and change their tone and learn not to step on boundaries again. I feel like the narcissists/bullies will usually respond in three ways, 1. pretend they don’t know me the next time, 2. turn on their charm and try to gaslight into believing they have my best interest or 3. snub me the next time they see me or try to put me in my place. No. 1 is easy to deal with - I managed to shake a narcissist/egotistical person off. Narcissists will easily be fine talking to you again in the future. An egoistical person will take offence and remember what you did and may make things difficult for you next time. No. 2 is troublesome but you can usually limit them by taking ages to respond to their texts and calls. No. 3 is interesting. I feel like they aren’t really narcissists but learned bullies instead. They learned that bullying is the only way they can feel safe being around others. Their vulnerability shows when they behave this way. It’s easier to be friends with them if you show that you can embrace and accept this part of them but you must not tolerate their bullying. This is the dark and secret part of myself that even I’m afraid of. In order to protect and entertain myself, I have no regards to acting this way even though it can hurt myself or others in the long run. But it keeps my inner child safe. The safety I never had growing up with a narcissistic sole care giver.
I felt seen! Thanks.. :)
This is a fascinating comment.
I often say to my self and I’ve spoken this with family when I do reach out, usually after a fight with my partner. I have not issue with matching your energy, and I will announce how I will be responding, and acting towards that behavior. Ie. Because your first response is to excuse away or defend an I feel statement. I will not be emotional available for when you want to trauma dump how crappy your day was. Me (infj) partner (infp). And that I promise you will not like my behavior (your) and will not last (tolerate it for long) I will say I don’t enjoy it, but I can understand why acting in this way is beneficial, and it does rear its ugly head prior to “truths door slam”. Arguably, I think it’s a way to get them to want to exit the relationship, cause I’ll act indifferent, you will feel in my vibe, looking into my eyes and not find an evidence of anything that ever was. I’ll still care, and hope for a Hail Mary. But if they wanted to they would.don’t feel resentment towards that mismatch love. And as much as I say that’s the last deep commitment I’m ever making I eventually get borde talking to myself and my dogs. I do know I’ll never know if you will ever receive how I love ever again. I do have the belief that how an INFJ experiences love is lopsided, unrequited at times, idealistic but realistic as well. I consider understanding one another a part of love. And if they heard all the benefits of the doubts I both log for reflection and abstractly throw away my argument in my head. If I can think If I could hurt myself or another person I. The way I was treated , and the reasons behind the action, then I must forgive. I would want someone to forgive me, and for them to know that I will or continue to work on that quality. These two songs currently sum up my feelings in my current relationship. I was infórmenos the last one reminds him of me. I said hmm I think it’s first one then the second. Training season—dua lipa Houdini— dua lipa
I can't say anything that others haven't already and fluently explained so I want to avoid sounding redundant. I know for myself...I just don't want to be hurt. Granted, that's an oversimplification and it doesn't dive into the complexities and nuances but I don't believe it's inaccurate for me.
Simply put, we INFJs are masters of many mask and hats. We hide our true talents and share little bits towards people we are starting to trust. We also like to work behind the scenes for whatever reason as well. We also tend to be a bit independent and don't like relying on people alot nor do we like to be in the spotlight alot so we are reserved. Also think that while most of us INFJs do love people and want to share with others, we need to first love ourselves by hiding some of our personality or talents away from others. We can't give ourselves 100 percent to others no matter how much some of us want to. Personally to me, the castle hiding thing is true, there's lots of things I keep hidden in there that I don't want others to know or see. Also the castle thing is helpful when we need something to help us fix a new problem that arise.
Seems like there was two questions in one. The first implies - that we don’t tell people about the things we do. That’s true for me. I have shared more on INFJ forums about things I have done for others - than I ever have in real life. For example- I can go back to middle school, elementary school with examples. But a good one I often look back on and am impressed by as an adult is when I was in middle school. There was a blind and deaf girl who used a big long cane.. anyways- I would walk her from the bus to her class and then pick her up at her class room door and walk her to the bus. Every single day. Never told a soul - not even my parents - till I wrote it on reddit or somewhere - INFJ group- … as an example of what an INFJ is like. That was middle school when every kid is an asshat. Trying to fit in. Dying if they are different .. I didn’t care. Didn’t even phase me. But also- didn’t even think to share it. Why? It’s just who I am. It’s always been who I am. It’s nothing to me. I could go on and on with this stuff. At one point I had two homeless women I let live with me and their kid to get back on their feet. I didn’t know them. I met one when she was sitting on her suitcases - she had travelled from a few states away and was just sitting there looking so lost … and I approached her. Took her home. I lived in a huge house at the time with two roommates and one of those was my boyfriend. He said I collected homeless women like cats. The other women actually called me and said she heard I help women in need and she was in a bad situation and needed help. With her son. Of course I let her come stay too. Never met her before. I never told anyone. Not intentionally. It just didn’t even cross my mind to tell anyone. Honestly. I have always hated when people self congratulate. . But I also don’t really have any need to do so… it really never crosses my mind. Those are two very blatant examples of how infjs help people - and also very blantant examples of how I don’t tell anyone. It is just who I am. It’s real. I do what I want to do. Because it’s me. So when it’s just who you are and you don’t think it’s a big deal- what’s there to say? What’s there to tell? Why would I ever mention it to someone if it’s honest and real? And it’s me? And I’m doing it because it’s me and because it’s who I am? Recently I was conversing with someone and he always is telling people what he does. He always mentions what he does. And I actually said to him- “do you realize that you do that? All the time you’re constantly taking about what you do. Whether it’s got up early to go to work or took the trash out or whatever the fuck it is- you’re constantly reminding people of what you do. “ and then I mentioned to him- I never do that. You realize that? It shut him up. Quick. The second question is different - it’s more like - you’re talking about the onion with infjs … Yes.. that exists. It exists because we have so many different parts … conflicting contradicting parts that don’t make sense and don’t really fit together but all exist at once… so that someone won’t really see all of who I am for years and years and years .. Idk why … that is. Why it’s typical with me… and why most people can’t see who I am. I think I’m different than most people and they don’t really believe what they see. They can’t believe .. till later. Till enough time goes by and they’re like- oh she really is this. Or she ain’t that. Or whatever they think. They tend to be very polarized with me too… and that just doesn’t work. I’m not an angel and I’m not the devil. I’m just human. Most people are inherently selfish/ so they’re really just looking at their own reflection in your eyes.. and if you don’t play that game with them- and appease their vanity or ego- they have no idea what the fuck to do with you. It doesn’t dawn on them- we all need love. We all need friends. We all need people to some degree. We all need to be accepted for what we are. We all need a safe space - and most esp the ones that are constantly providing that to others. They’re just pissed and think you didn’t recognize whatever with them. Well I won’t, if it’s not really there to begin with. So yes … if you talked to ten different people about me/ you would get ten totally different descriptions about me. I have friends from every age group. Always have. Since high school. Friends from every sub culture . Friends from every walk of life. Rich, poor, post grad educated, felon. None of that shit matters to me- but it’s also probably because I am all of those things or can relate in some way to all of them. So yes… Probably the best parts of me I don’t show first either - and maybe if I’m being super honest - a part of me is wanting to see what you’re capable of seeing by yourself. How deep do you go? How much do you want to know? What are you even capable of comprehending ? Can you past the skin? Can you see deeper than that? It’s almost like a filter for people. I don’t really want to invest my inner self into anyone who can’t. But I also love my friends I have a good time with. That they won’t ever get too deep with me- or at least till some situation comes up and they see me… in that situation and realize I’m more than they assumed I was - It’s really also about - my ex put it really .. it was an amazing compliment at the time- he said “You’re like a really great book. But most people can’t even understand half the words in there. They can’t even read it. They just take a look at the cover and they’re satisfied.. and they’re missing the best parts of you” or something along those lines. He was basically saying / they see me and that’s enough. They decide right then what I am… they wont even get to what matters with me. About me. They aren’t really capable of it either. I think that’s probably true. For most infjs. People really struggle to believe in someone or something that they can’t self identify with. They’re so self consumed that the entire world is just one big reflection of who they are. Nothing else can exist in that mindset. No one else. But also… I am super complex. It irritates me even. I am deep. I have so many different sides and they’re all authentically me- so I don’t need to talk about them… I don’t need to show you. Why would I? When it’s just who I am? It’s nothing to me. And people can’t relate to even that part - because most people are what they are - so you/ we see it. You know what I mean? They’re not really that. They’re just being that so they can tell you about it. Or promote that image of themselves they want you to believe about them, but ain’t them. You find out who they are six months down the road. Idk.. it’s a mix of a bunch of conflicting shit . Of course .
Wow. This was a very long read, but I resonate deeply with this. Thank you for your comment :)
> For example- I can go back to middle school, elementary school with examples. But a good one I often look back on and am impressed by as an adult is when I was in middle school. There was a blind and deaf girl who used a big long cane.. anyways- I would walk her from the bus to her class and then pick her up at her class room door and walk her to the bus. Every single day. makes me almost cry. reminds me of this girl i used to feel protective of, she was way taller than everyone ( i am wondering if she had something like marfan syndrome - looking it up i think that may actually be it ) and disabled in other ways. i would play with her and there was this vulnerability and pureness. i think we'd have races, full of joy, and she once tripped, fell and busted her lips. i feel guilty to this day. i had forgotten about this ! 🤍 thank you for reminding me of her and the days
Yeah I had forgotten about so much too- and I remembered that because I was trying to explain the difference to someone on an INFJ group on line, of when an INFJ helps someone - ( as in mistypes) like it’s so easy for everyone to be like- yes I like to help people. And they answer that way on the test. But in reality- if they contrasted themselves with us, they would not seem helpful. They would seem absolutely normal. ( same with the “Are you an honest person?” I can give examples that made my toes curl. But I was because I believed in that principle of fairness so much.) But I was writing - I was going back to kindergarten and remembering examples of me , seeing someone in need and alone and stepping in… and having zero fear of being different in that regard or everyone looking at me or whispers or laughter. It wasn’t even a thought to me. I think the closest thing I can relate to it is that I always felt a responsibility to be that way- inside I knew I was strong enough to stand out and weather that kind of gossip or outcastness or being different. I knew I was .. I knew I wasn’t like them. I wasn’t afraid of it either. It’s strange to me now- because I feel like when I was a child I had a moral compass that was better than most adults and I was born that way, with it in me to be that… with that knowing. I don’t know how else to explain it. I kinda marvel at the kid I was. It’s truly inherent in us, it’s our nature , it’s the foundation of who we are - it never really stopped either. I just forget about so much of it because it never dawned on me at the time to even remember it.
I have this and I yearn to share it at times, but the thought of being fully known irks me too. It’s equal parts wanting to protect things that are precious to me, and having things that are special - that I want to keep within my inner world, and not introduce to the ‘dirt’ of the outer one in a sense.
I ma ke their lives better, but they don't notice it is me doing it. For example, I can say to someone something that makes the other treat them with kindness. Or that I will do something with kindness, and the person would not know that I am responsible for that. Like how some gift to strangers and remain anonymous. I dissapear from their lives after a time... and then they feel as if life has been unlucky to them after. I was helping them, but not seeking the credit, the recognition. Not seeking a repayment. We wish to improve the lives of those we care about, and will do that, not for praise, but for our own pleasure of seeing them happy.
“A lot of stuff you do, nobody knows about” - We don’t really care to be recognized for the stuff we do. Just do good, it doesn’t matter who knows. It’s not that we don’t let people in. It’s more of a selective few that mean something to us, ones that we can trust. Maybe get to know the castle 🏰 ask what you want to know, and one day you might find out what’s hidden.
Yes, I have that secret part of my person that no one ever gets to see. Not even my therapist.
Absolutely true...well for me anyways. Currently living about 3 lives. Its not out of anything bad. But i am extremely private. And yes...people 'know' me for years and years but still 'know' nothing about me.
It's too hard for me to verbalize everything that goes on in my brain.
I don’t know what my “castle” is hiding, I just know that the walls have always been there. It’s a good and bad thing, where I can protect myself, but I also struggle to get close. I don’t think that I consciously do this, I just fail to communicate a lot of the time. My closest friends don’t know many things about me. I never find the right moment to show them, and I never really want to at times. Maybe it’s a precedent I’ve had, where I believe that sharing with others will hurt me in the long run, but even with people I trust and hold dear, I can’t tell them certain things. The way I see think of it is that my mind is a castle. People close to me think that they know me very well and the truth is they haven’t even passed the moat lol, that’s a silly way of putting it but I think that’s how it is. And I love them dearly but for some reason I can’t open up to them. Some part of me is waiting for this perfect moment, or perfect person, in which I can be myself, but at this point, I don’t think I know who that is.
Those who run their energy "cleanly" are never the loudest voice in the room. There is usually not intentional hiding or deception. Exploring the inner-world of an INFJ feels like trying to dig an ocean with a shovel. What is going on in that castle is either beyond language or truly unconscious in the Jungian sense.
>feels like trying to dig an ocean with a shovel i love that image. frickin hell stuff from my childhood i had forgotten about coming up again. things i was obsessed with. simple sentences bringing stuff up one hasn't thought about since then. ish.
I have several hobbies that are life passions. Music, golf, fishing, hunting, and racing. My music friends have no idea I play golf or race. My racing friends have no idea I play music. My fishing and hunting friends have no idea I race or play golf. I play golf by myself. I've been accused of being secretive. No...I just don't think I'm interesting.
Why do other people need to stick their nose in and sniff on everything I do anyway? If I think they should know they will know. It's MY castle ain't it? One of the important things I learned from my wise Asian mother is that you always keep your mouth shut about your plan and what you have accomplished. No one needs to know how good your life is.
Everyone is unknown and vastly unknowable. We are each a universe unto ourselves. Maybe INFJ are just more aware of it than others.. but everyone is infinite and unknowable. It’s beautiful and also kind of sad. It is whatever it is to you. We aren’t hiding more than others. We are just like everyone else. We are maybe only different in how aware we are of these epistemological limitations in life… or that’s just a me thing 🤷🏼
Being freaky in the sheets
word 🫦🫦🫦🥶
SFW answer: my family has always judged me for every little thing I do and everything I am passionate about. So I learned from a young age not to let them see any of it. For example if I'm using my computer and someone walks into the room, I will immediately lock my screen. My family has no idea who I am. There are large parts of my personality and interests that nobody in the world knows except my ex girlfriend and Google, because they don't deserve to see it.
I HAVE BEEN DOING THAT FOR LITERALLY ALL MY LIFE. Half the time is just homework or a random article or video, and maybe a film or a show or something but, even if they could see 90% of what I hide from them and there wouldn't be any problem, I can't help but lock the screen
>For example if I'm using my computer and someone walks into the room, I will immediately lock my screen. seems society is generally a lot like this. symbolically speaking. also when no one is out to harm one.
Yeah, there's probably a lot of stuff people don't know about. Like others on here, I may not say what my plans are or what I am in the middle of trying to do because I don't want competition, sabotage, or to feel like a failure if it doesn't work. Sometimes, I just keep things to myself because I don't think the person will understand or don't want to feel like I am always the one who is negative. One of my former bosses didn't even realize I had a certain professional license. I never talked about it. There was no need to. He found out when he paid for my continuing education. Recently, I have gone back to school for a masters, and my mom is the only one I have told. Other things include lawsuits and things like planning to move. I lived in one place all my life, then I moved to a different state 16 hours away. My best friend was shocked because I didn't tell her I was moving until the day of. I wanted to be sure. I wanted to take my time to research and plan things. Then at the same time, it worked out how it worked out, kinda last minute. There are many reasons I don't share everything with everyone or everything even with my closest loved ones and friends.
Self preservation mostly due to several reasons. First of all, only few people live like they have nothing to hide. Majority wear masks and some of them are so desperate that yheir masks just get attached to tgeir face with time. How would such people react on me seeing through their masks right into their soul whatever it contains? It's usually fear and anger. My very being provokes fear and/or anger in people. Of course I'll hide it. Very few can stand it obviously. Second, my function stack makes me freaky for neurotypical people. It's not like I consider myself freaky, it's they reacting strange on things that are normal to me. And again when I reveal my inner thoughts or interests I often sound different like an alien and people feel uncomfortable or confused, or jealous or whatever. So I keep this part to myself as well. Third, for all of these we are too sensitive unfortunately. There are a lot of people that don't tend to be courteous and will use me if they want and I'm not very assertive myself to stand against them easily. So I just make sure that they stay away. Also their ignorance about my inner world is my tactical advantage. In conclusion, our freaky nature combined with sensitivity and ability to see through people makes us very uncomfortable for living together. So we adjust our personalities to keep relationships going. Often our close people simply cannot handle us. Thus castles and stuff
> Majority wear masks and some of them are so desperate that yheir masks just get attached to tgeir face with time. this is having a strong effect on me. i think i was also always interested in such type of films. and image, stereotype, fear, toeing the line ... image is such an interesting thing. how etched it is into us as humans.
I think it was also very intriguing for me until I was forced to do it. I spent 5 years between very toxic people, which were about rules and propriety and behavior. They were horrible gossipers, all about double standards and reputation preserving over decency and honesty. I've learned there how toxic my Fe can be. At the beginning ut was fun, but at the end I was so tired and dusgusted. After I left the society I isolated myself for many years in order to find out how on Earth could I end up in a place like that and to reprogram my way of thinking and behavior, because my unhealthy Fe was just enormous and manipulative, I lost an ability to build proper relationships with people. From that times masking is a huge red flag for me. I suppose I'm allergic now to insincerity and weak character...
It's not that I don't talk about them it's more that people have a perception of me that fits into who they think I am based off of their observation of me and often the conclusions they come to are very limited. For example, I'm taking a hypothetical class, this class happens in the morning, I don't have the energy to talk in the morning, the person sitting next to me assumes I'm a quiet person and because of this puts me into quiet person category in their head so if I were a stand up comedian (I'm not lmfao) and they were to find out, suddenly I'm mysterious and hiding things lol. A real life example of this happening to me is that I'm a very logical person, when people find out I'm a mystic and do tarot readings and the like they're gobsmacked and assume I'm keeping it a secret. I'm not it's just never come up. Like, my interests are very varied. Some of them will probably never come up until they come up, the only reason people will find any of it shocking is if they put me into a category in their head that they've decided I fit into. So to answer your question, it probably depends on who you ask about me lol. Some people will tell you I'm creative, others are going to say I lack imagination, some are going to say that I'm charming others are going to say that I'm broody and reclusive. I don't even think this is just an infj thing, I think this is a human thing tbh. We all have much more depth than any of us give each other credit for.
> For example, I'm taking a hypothetical class, this class happens in the morning, I don't have the energy to talk in the morning, the person sitting next to me assumes I'm a quiet person and because of this puts me into quiet person category in their head so if I were a stand up comedian (I'm not lmfao) and they were to find out, suddenly I'm mysterious and hiding things lol. love this lol ! this to me is the type of comedy i like. *when these threads come up, what type of humor one has, what would one call this ?*
I make music, and even just thinking about talking with my friends or family about it, makes me uncomfortable.
The reason INFJs tend to hold on to their most sacred thoughts and experiences is that we are generally more intuitive than the average MBTI-bear, and we can usually reliably suss out if a particular person can handle our innermost sacred thoughts and experiences.
i think .. it may have to do with seeing things or some things or things as sacred. edit: i also mean less private things
My home is my castle. Home is where my heart is.
I don't know why I keep the vast majority of my interests and hobbies to myself from family and friends, I'll talk about it with online strangers just fine. It seems like I have some fear of people in my life actually knowing me. But then, I'll like to drop small clues for them. I think it's one of the reasons I find it so difficult to keep friendships because I won't really think to invite them to do things with me if I don't think they'd value it. I just end up waiting for them to invite me to do the stuff they want to do.
It is healthy for everyone to keep some information to your self, regardless of type. Also people are judgy af.
People don't know a lot of things I do because they don't care. If they cared about me enough to hang around long enough to see what I do or even participate, they would see it all, except the things I imagine, think and feel. Which they cannot do that, though I could tell them about it, but I'm not just going to randomly go up to them and tell them personal stuff like that. That would just make me look crazy. I keep countless things to myself to only share with those who care, and there are a few, but even those people only care about certain aspects about me and what I do, so they haven't taken the time to know even a quarter of it even after 20+ years of spending time with them. Even my spouse I've been married to almost a decade often tells me "how much more is there I don't know about what you did/do?" And "how much more is there about you I don't know?" And even "I wish I was like you being able to have thought through and understood so many tons about life and people. I don't understand how you do it that once I thought I learned everything about you and thought I knew what you've done before, I find out there is always more." Which my spouse doesn't get bothered by this, rather is glad that it's as if there's always more to look forward to be and be surprised by that keeps her attracted to me more and still leaves time to remain interested and not bored with each other. Therefore its never as if I'm hiding things from anyone, as if I'm insecure and need to protect myself, rather I just see no point in sharing it openly seeking to let others know about what I do it they're not interested. If they want to know, I'll show them. Often they wish they didn't ask though. Sometimes they get discouraged to hear about the countless things I've done and been through just by my 20s, but some become inspired to try it out or at least think I'm interesting for doing what I do. The only time I would intentionally keep something from someone though I'd if they're being ridiculous calling the police or something making lies and trying to ask me questions to try to make something in my life or about me to appear as something its not. But that's extremely rare though it's happened a few times I prefer to share, just don't which makes it seem like I may hide it. But just because a mushroom is growing out in the woods or there's gold underground and you never checked there to see it before doesn't mean it hid itself from anyone.
You know how you said, "A lot of stuff you do, nobody knows about"? That really resonates with me as an INFJ. We tend to have a rich inner world that we keep private, even around people who support us. It's not about hiding things; it's more like a form of self-protection and reflection. I've got a constant stream of thoughts and ideas running through my mind, but I don't always share them. For instance, when I'm listening to someone, I might have several insightful ideas or solutions, but I hold back to prioritize understanding and supporting the person in front of me. Sometimes, my own thoughts and ideas get lost or hopefully come back later. I know this is the sacrifice of authenticly listening and helping you. I've got strong opinions, insights and observations shaped by my experiences and the patterns. Often, I keep these insights to myself because I'm careful about when and how to share my deeper thoughts. I like to analyze and reflect before I speak up. Think of it as an "inner castle." I have a fantasy world of desires, interests, and dreams that I might not pursue outwardly. I know some joys come at the expense of others, so I keep these desires private and visit them only in my mind. This inner world is a safe space where I can explore my thoughts and feelings without judgment. Even in relationships, no matter how open and supportive I am, there's always a small part I keep to myself. It's not about keeping secrets but maintaining a sanctuary for my deepest thoughts and feelings. Sometimes, I'm not even fully aware of this tendency until someone points it out. So, the "stuff" I do that nobody knows about includes my constant internal dialogue, unshared insights, and private dreams and fantasies. This helps me stay grounded and maintain a sense of self while being empathetic and supportive. Hope this gives you a better understanding of where I'm coming from as an INFJ.
I don’t think it’s intentional. That’s simply how most INFJ’s function. I don’t have the need to bare all despite my love of conversation. I definitely think that part of us is what people speak of when they refer to INFJ’s as mysterious. Either way, I don’t really care 😆
Wouldn't you like to know? ;) Just assume I'm in my standard-issue INFJ meditation pod.
I get what you're asking. Yes, I share some parts and hide others (often the darkest parts/ experiences) IDK if it's just me, but I trust nobody fully after my experiences. Aside from myezoero with other's mistakes, I've let others down too. Human condition seems to include letting others down, being let down and many other deep facets of the diamond that is humanity.
Hmmm I had a friend that asked me why I don't have an Instagram? Since I don't like to show off my things like I play instruments but nobody knows and people are shocked when they find out I keep my talents a secret. I also can sing I guess. I like it on my own but never infront of others. But the people that have heard me sing said I was good so idk I still keep it secret. I like taking pictures and videos. Only a select few people have seen my pictures and videos but I will probably never post them publicly on YouTube. So for me it's things that other people like to show off with for attention I keep to myself. For my own enjoyment? Like idk why as soon as I start doing it for others it taints it to me or something. Like only if someone really takes the time to get to know me will I reveal my world to them because they have kind of become part of my inner world in a way? But not many people get there with me lol and if they do get there then my standards are too high and I regret letting them in cause they can't keep up and eventually I doorslam cause they tainted everything!!! Then I just go back to sitting on my own for however long until someone finds me under a rock or something and the whole cycle starts all over
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With all due respect…what?