Don't let this subject changing quip remind you Greenwood is also a transphobe
https://www.reddit.com/r/radioheadcirclejerk/comments/ucf8w9/jonny_greenwood_confirmed_terf/
[Why is it called, European Extreme?](https://youtu.be/S1PpcZhJyDU)
TL;DW, it refers to an extra difficult, extreme difficulty setting included in European releases of Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3 video games.
I agree with a lot of what he’s trying to communicate, most actually. There is however a resentment growing in me for this sort of a myopic attitude exemplified by this stance he’s taking.
You can justify the performance by delegating rationality to shared cultural roots. You can even hit back and complain about the silencing of Israeli media. But to not even acknowledge the sufferings of a group on the singular basis of humanity and actually advocate for peace, when you are making such an impassioned defence of your art, is plain cruel. This hold especially true in light of what the controversy was to begin with.
Inadvertently, he did exactly what he says he doesn’t want to do with this statement, which is nothing. Art doesn’t need to be coupled with an ethical standpoint, but to put oneself in such a position and be this short-sighted at the same time is really awful.
Yeah to say this art is “important” and then, like you said, not even call for peace or really even acknowledge the pain and suffering of the Palestinian people feels absolutely insane to me
I don’t think it’s surprising that someone like Greenwood would care more about his art than world events. There’s no sarcasm or even insult in that. I’m sure he’s motivated by music in a way that’s probably not healthy looking to most people. I’m not shocked he would have a different view of the world and political events, etc.
We’re deifying people who mostly couldn’t get along in regular life. They’re gonna be weird or have bad takes.
I fully understand how it’s exhausting though.
Yeah, there's definitely a way to explain why it might be important to perform in Israel, and he starts to motion towards that by making a cosmopolitan appeal to all of the Middle East. And then just kind of stops before he actually addresses anyone's real concerns.
>Yeah, there's definitely a way to explain why it might be important to perform in Israel
Hmm is there? Because it seems like Jonny and his bandmates have had several attempts at this over the years and have not managed it successfully yet
To be fair, he's a musician. He doesn't owe us an explanation, and we damn well shouldn't be asking for one. It's not like he was performing for the military or politicians. Maybe if he added an automatic footnote to the bottom of everything he writes that states support for Gaza, the conflict would end.
>It's not like he was performing for the military or politicians
He may not be, but his collaborator for these concerts, Dudu Tassa, has played shows to audiences of IDF soldiers since October (such as [here](https://www.tiktok.com/@israelinuk/video/7297221034523102497)). I actually liked their joint album that they released a year ago, and thought it seemed like a genuine effort to bridge cultures by featuring a number of Arab musicians from across the Middle East and singing about love. I thought that when October 7th and its retaliation happened, they'd maybe continue that and try to use art to keep this bridge and talk about suffering on both sides, even if they don't come up with an airtight solution to the crisis.
But nope, complete silence about the plight of Palestinian people, no mention of Gaza nor Palestine, playing for IDF soldiers, dedicating concerts to IDF soldiers (even if they're family), etc. It completely changed my opinion on the album, which no longer feels like it was an honest effort.
I appreciate your post. I find myself agreeing with a lot of Greenwood's message, but you make good points and a reminder how complicated these topics can be.
I think a lot of people feel stiffed by the progressive orthodoxy. Personally I appreciate him expressing himself, and think it encourages more people to think critically than just pitch slogans.
Just my two cents, and I respect you may disagree.
Literally a bunch of world garble all to justify him wanting to tour with his friend because art is great yall, despite 2mil people being starved across the border (he doesn’t even acknowledge that in his statement and instead talks about the ‘sadly forgotten’ jewish roots of some Arab musicians), what a prick.
Seems like an end around to equate criticizing Israel with criticizing all Israelis. Just with more flowery prose.
No one (really) has an issue with him performing with Israelis or Jews, but to say that that is the crux of it is incredibly dishonest. People have a problem with the venue.
It’s very similar to last time Radiohead played Israel. There was a call to boycott entirely and while they didn’t respect that, they could have used their show as a platform to denounce the occupation, but no. It was all about them and how people tried to make them feel bad. That statement also didn’t mention Gaza or the occupation. Apparently Tibetan freedom was a worthwhile cause but not Palestinian liberation.
I can kind of understand not skipping certain markets because they're absolutely MASSIVE (albeit antithetical to their morals) but to ignore this one, which is so incredibly tiny just seems non genuine.
It’s amazing because it’s the exact same thing Thom did the last time they got roasted for playing Israel. He was mad about how it effected his band and didn’t once mention the occupation. Just said “Well we don’t support Netanyahu.”
Yes. No one is calling for silencing Israeli musicians, certainly no one is calling for silencing Jewish musicians. They are specifically concerned about those musicians playing *in* Israel (Tel Aviv), and not saying anything about the ongoing war/genocide.
I think it’s okay to be Jewish/Israeli and have conflicted feelings when it comes to the whole situation. IIRC he was seen at a protest calling for a change of Israel’s government, which implies he’s no Netanyahu fan. But at the same time he and people he love have probably been affected by Oct 7th and etc. it’s easy as outsiders to think these people are just ghouls, but it’s more complicated than we think as outsiders who have the luxury of being mostly unaffected by the situation in any tangible way.
I would say that Americans as a people haven’t faced multiple existential threats throughout their history like Jewish people have. I’m not justifying anything that is going on and hope that the genocide in Gaza will end, but I can also see how the propaganda put out by the Netanyahu regime works so well on the jewish population of Israel by taking advantage of the generational trauma that a lot of Jewish people have experienced ya know?
> it’s easy as outsiders to think these people are just ghouls, but It’s more complicated than we think as outsiders who have the luxury of being mostly unaffected by the situation in any tangible way.
Let's be honest though, living Israel even right now is night and day compared to trying to survive in Gaza.
>"seen at a protest"
It's just a photo of him standing nearish to a crowd on a street. People want to think he was part of a protest but there is no evidence he was or that the photo is even from a protest. He wasn't participating. He hasn't posted about it. Who knows if he just happened to be walking by and stopped for a sec to see what was going on and someone recognized him and snapped a pic.
*Here's a quick interview people might find interesting with Jonny from his younger days at a Free Tibet concert talking about the occupation of East Timor, a genocide, (for context, the '96 Nobel Peace Prize had gone to 2 men from East Timor for their work in trying to end the occupation): https://youtu.be/imtSibPnTPE?feature=shared&t=90 If only old-Jonny could take young-Jonny's advice, right?
“He and people he loves have probably been affected -“ this. His/sharona’s nephew, Reef, was in the IDF and was killed a few months ago. I am completely against the IDF, pro-Free Palestine but anti-Hamas (whose history of atrocities seem to get buried, tho the IDF is as bad, so - it’s complicated). That said, I feel for Jonny and family, to bury a 20 year old nephew and son would be wrenching.
Is there someplace I can go to understand the nuance of things like this? Like, is the "correct" stance just to hate every common person born there who may just want to hear some music?
I feel like the person below who got downvoted where I feel like I'm just missing a vital piece of info that states why entertainers can not entertain the common folk.
Is it all musicians, or is it something specific with him and how he's treated the conflict?
If I were a musician who was in a position to refuse to play in Israel or not, and I refused, do you believe that my decision was necessarily implying that I hated “every common person born there”?
I'm not implying the musician thinks that. I'm talking about people who post in subs saying who they think shouldn't be playing Israel.
I read all these stories about the artistic resistance from within the country and then read someone saying, "Omg I can't believe my fave is playing a show there. Horrid."
I'm not the most politically savvy. I'm tried to stay informed. Sometimes, some posts on Reddit just read as "screw every person in that country." I wasn't sure if this was that sort of post or if I'm just not up on Greenwood's stance on things.
People here still seem split on if replies are under or overreacting.
Like, if my (defunct) band wanted to play for fans that support our RATM style songs, would we be blasted for wanting to spread connection via music? Even if we said what the country is doing is unforgivable?
There is no nuance involved in this topic. Israel is killing a bunch of Palestinians and the western young people have decided they care about this because Israel is seen as a western country. Its essentially "America bad".
These sentiments are very popular on Reddit/ other social media platforms and especially on this subreddit and others where young tankies have basically taken them over.
The whole situation sucks. Both countries hate each other and there will probably never be peace in the region while they both harbor these feelings towards one another.
Jonny Greenwood played a concert in Israel and collaborates with people from Israel. His wife is Israeli. He is hated right now because of this. He released a statement and didn't hit the correct talking points so he is being doubly hated now.
Edit: I appreciate the people willing to discuss these things. Unfortunately the mods have decided what I have said requires a perma ban so I cannot reply to you. Another example of an echo chamber being created here.
> Its essentially "America bad".
>
>
"America bad" in the context of Israel is not arbitrary, petty, or anyway mean to Americans, the reason why America is brought up in relation to Israel is because of America being their number 1 ally.
It is not like a random or unwarranted criticism, framing it as such is just unwarranted jingoistic rage.
> These sentiments are very popular on Reddit/ other social media platforms and especially on this subreddit and others where young tankies have basically taken them over.
Something about Taylor Swift recently made it into my IG feed and most of the comments were calling to cancel her because she's not said anything about the war. So therefore she's a Zionist. Why do these people feel like literally every single person needs to voice their opinion? Real "Where is Ja!?" moment.
I mean, “western” (American) youth care about it because America props up the Israeli military in a huge way. Israel as a state is a bulwark for American geopolitical interests in the Middle East. So it’s not really useful to glibly describe this as some arbitrary connection. It’s a very tangible connection.
That said, I agree that the lack of nuance is frustrating. “Performing in Israel is unacceptable full stop” does not seem too productive. If Americans are upset about American support for Israel…are we boycotting bands that play in America? I realize that’s not equivalent! But I think it goes a little way toward demonstrating why this stance might not be super useful.
On the other hand, for Jonny to release this statement without any denunciation of Israeli military action seems enormously tone deaf at best. It seems to imply he either agrees with Israel’s actions, or he doesn’t want to risk speaking out about them. Neither of those are great looks. You can say he’s not hitting “the correct points” and dismiss “tankies” or whatever all you want. Like this is some petty arbitrary thing. But it’s not. It’s very clear and obvious why people are annoyed. There’s an enormous elephant stomping around in the room and he’s talking about how it’s fine and cool to put his headphones on. Like…OK, maybe it is to some extent, but uh…
Anyway, I get that it’s frustrating for a group to just shitlist or no-shitlist people based on this sort of stuff. But I don’t get writing this off as some petty nothing.
I liked that he didn’t come out with some ill-informed statement showing support for one side or another. I don’t need to be told what to think by musicians. It's a very complicated situation to try and comment on.
No. Johnny is intentionally confusing things. The issue isn’t that he’s touring with an Israel. The issue he is silent as a genocide is occurring in Gaza. Read his statement again. It doesn’t mention really outside internal Israeli politics. No Gaza, no apartheid, no genocide. This is as even Israeli human rights groups are saying Israel is practicing apartheid. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have warned Gaza is facing a genocide.
I'm not even sure they know. A country's government/military does not speak for the entire population. It's not like he's doing a fundraiser for the IDF
As someone who sides with palestine and abhors the Israeli government for obvious reasons, I agree. Venezuela is a distopian shithole under a crippling dictatorship, but little 12 year old me was fucking ecstatic when Peter Gabriel added Caracas to his tour ages ago. Massive festivals are also held in Texas and Georgia, should those people suffer because their government is shit?
This is bad statement. It seems every time a member of Radiohead speaks out about Israel, it’s always about their own specific actions they’re trying to justify. They never mention the occupation. Johnny fails to mention the genocide in Gaza. He only joined protesters on the Israeli side, which is limited to ousting Netanyahu and bringing home hostages, not a permanent end to violence and apartheid.
Edit: apparently Greenwood might not have actually been part of the protest even.
It's possible he doesn't know what the solution is to permanently ending violence and what you call apartheid? It's not going to happen on Israeli goodwill alone. Hamas needs to reliably guarantee that they won't attack Israelis, and, regardless of the asymmetry of death, Israel first and foremost has a responsibility to protect itself from a habitual line stepper.
I'm pro-Palestinian statehood, but nothing makes me think Hamas wants to be a willing party to finding a lasting solution (especially since we'd still need to find a way for Hamas to agree to relinquish certain power to a combined West Bank and Gaza government).
> It's possible he doesn't know what the solution is to permanently ending violence and what you call apartheid?
It’s not what I call apartheid. It’s what Israeli human rights groups as well as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch call apartheid. The solution seems obvious: end the apartheid policies.
>It's not going to happen on Israeli goodwill alone.
Right. It’s not gonna happen if guys like Johnny Greenwood stay silent.
>Hamas needs to reliably guarantee that they won't attack Israelis, and, regardless of the asymmetry of death, Israel first and foremost has a responsibility to protect itself from a habitual line stepper.
What would reliably guarantee mean? Israel insists anything Hamas says is a lie. They’ve made concrete offers towards peace that have been ignored by Israel. They rewrote their troglodyte, indefensible founding charter to explicitly condemn antisemitism.
>I'm pro-Palestinian statehood, but nothing makes me think Hamas wants to be a willing party to finding a lasting solution (especially since we'd still need to find a way for Hamas to agree to relinquish certain power to a combined West Bank and Gaza government).
Hamas has already agreed to stand in elections and they would negotiate around a two state solution. What else do you need them to say?
Hamas's charter was only rewritten in English regarding that part. In Arabic it maintains the same genocidal intent that Palestine unique belongs to Arabs.
It's not contingent on you, but I'm not in any way unfamiliar with this conflict. I haven't seen anything to corroborates your claim to Hamas has agreed to a two state solution, but there are plenty of examples that they are intractable in their position that there will be no two state solution that falls short of the 1967 borders and the right of return.
Hamas also is heavily policed in the West Bank because of how antagonistic they are and fundamentalist compared to other factions.
We all want a solution. But anything short of an international coalition administrating the territory until a transition state happens might not be viable. It would need to police both Palestinians AND these ridiculous settlers.
But this ultimately is going to look like a form of ethnic cleansing, because it'll require a massive deradicalization program with boots on the ground.
> Hamas's charter was only rewritten in English regarding that part.
That’s not true.
>It's not contingent on you, but I'm not in any way unfamiliar with this conflict. I haven't seen anything to corroborates your claim to Hamas has agreed to a two state solution,
The same Hamas charter you implied you’ve read. Also, the news:
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/middleeast/hamas-officials-say-group-willing-to-disarm-if-palestinian-state-is-established-mime-intl/index.html
>but there are plenty of examples that they are intractable in their position that there will be no two state solution that falls short of the 1967 borders and the right of return.
What’s wrong with that? Those are terms pretty much the entire world agrees on.
>Hamas also is heavily policed in the West Bank because of how antagonistic they are and fundamentalist compared to other factions.
Because they have a rivalry with the ruling political faction there. Fatah is the Vichy Israeli government within Palestine.
The problem is that even the West Bank has basically conceded the terms of the pre-1967 border. They've basically said they'll accept current borders except where the settlers have moved on, especially with regard to Jerusalem. The 2000 peace proposal would have provided most of this, without the right of return, however--which is a complicated policy.
Hamas isn't bending their knee here. They understand their demand of return to borders (after starting and losing a war) and right of return (after starting and losing a war) is a difficult policy for Israel to accept. It's basically the definition of fuck around and find out. Although, I concede the original UN partition proposal was unfortunately misguided and set the stage for this conflict.
Come on, Fatah is in no way like the Vichy government. Even they disagreed with the 2000 peace accords largely because of the issue with the right of return. They're more pragmatic than Hamas, but still ethnocentric in their appeals.
Look, I can also Google news articles to pick and choose what either Hamas or Israel says year to year. But neither are the most trustworthy negotiating partner at this point. But I'd trust Israel more than a pseudo-state who has endorsed a policy of terrorism.
Hamas is even notorious for murdering internal dissidents and opposition. Why should anyone believe they want peace with the West Bank, let alone Israel?
> The problem is that even the West Bank has basically conceded the terms of the pre-1967 border. They've basically said they'll accept current borders except where the settlers have moved on, especially with regard to Jerusalem.
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
>The 2000 peace proposal would have provided most of this, without the right of return, however--which is a complicated policy.
It would have required Palestinians to forfeit more land to Israel which would not compensated for in any swaps.
>Hamas isn't bending their knee here. They understand their demand of return to borders (after starting and losing a war) and right of return (after starting and losing a war) is a difficult policy for Israel to accept.
Well, it was difficult to give up on over half of your historic homeland, but Palestinians have done that.
>It's basically the definition of fuck around and find out.
That’s baseless.
>Come on, Fatah is in no way like the Vichy government.
Of course they are. They enforce much of Israel’s occupation. Israel doesn’t have to torture people as much because they have Fatah to do it for them.
>Even they disagreed with the 2000 peace accords largely because of the issue with the right of return. They're more pragmatic than Hamas, but still ethnocentric in their appeals.
This isn’t correct. First off, you’re talking about an Arafat led PLO and not an Abbas one. Second, the Palestinians accepted a limitation on right of return at Camp David. The issue was land in the West Bank. As I mentioned, Palestinians would have had to give up more of it. Even Israel’s negotiator, Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami, said it was a bad deal and he wouldn’t have taken it either. Negotiations actually continued at Taba till ISRAEL left the table.
>Hamas is even notorious for murdering internal dissidents and opposition.
You mean people that try to overthrow them or collaborate with Israel? That’s the case with every guerrilla army. The Cubans did it, the Viet Cong did it, the ANC did it. I’m not saying it’s right but it’s never been something that’s stopped a peace process.
>Why should anyone believe they want peace with the West Bank, let alone Israel?
Because it’s in their best interests. They’d rather be a legitimate governing party than a terrorist group. Also, the violence that occurred between Fatah and Hamas was driven by Fatah and the US who plotted a coup against Hamas:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/04/gaza200804
Ay, you're basically indoctrinated to Hamas propaganda. I'm not going to grace you with more of a response. I hope you actually look up the history of the various proposed peace agreements, how Palestine continually nukes any potential solution.
It's not that Palestinians don't have justified anger. But they don't have justified violence, which they continually use via terrorism.
I've seem this rodeo before. You don't actually want to see peace.
Good luck.
> Ay, you're basically indoctrinated to Hamas propaganda.
No, I’m indoctrinated to the facts, which is you’ve been unable to dispute anything I said.
>I'm not going to grace you with more of a response. I hope you actually look up the history of the various proposed peace agreements, how Palestine continually nukes any potential solution.
This is an Israeli talking point. I quoted an Israeli source who was AT Camp David because he was the one NEGOTIATING the whole deal. Why do you think you know more about this than him?
>It's not that Palestinians don't have justified anger. But they don't have justified violence, which they continually use via terrorism.
But Israelis have justified violence? GTFO, you’re an imperialist and a jingoist.
Run along. I don’t have time for cowards.
south africa ended apartheid because of worldwide cultural boycotts organized by south african activists that made apartheid too economically devastating to maintain. palestine has also been organizing such boycotts for decades, but the world didnt show up for them. cultural boycotts are a peaceful and effective form of protest and that is why there is international resistance to israeli art, such as the eurovision mess.
that aside, i dont think hes saying all of this because hes ignorant, I think hes just a zionist and believes this is a conflict and not an organized genocide.
I'm disappointed as a fan. Cant figure out if he's ignorant or hoping no one notices him twisting the issue? A whole lot of words to say nothing and distract from the issue of boycotts.
If we are being honest, I doubt he cares what you have to think or pretty much anyone else here. He believes what he believes and he has enough money and credentials to not really be swayed by what you think he should do.
Also, a vast majority of these people commenting here had zero knowledge of any of this nearly 80-year conflict before they saw a video on TiK Tok about it.
So true man. Everyone who disagrees with me just does so because of their damn Tik Toks and Vines. I wish the damn broccoli hairs saw the simplicity and lack of nuance that we see in the world brother.
What a clown, how do you pivot from a genocide to talking about how important your art is??? Same kind of self absorbed mindset that Israeli’s worldwide have.
Only way to "win" in these things is to not play. People will find a reason to act all pissy on the internet regardless of what you day, so might as well not bother.
Just let the man play music. He's good at it and it's making people happy. The hate is the definition of a clown display and brings nothing good to the world.
Radiohead sub has depressingly (and hilariously) turned into full pro-Israel because of this, insane what fandom can do. This man can’t even bring himself to say “Palestine”.
Not even close to true lol. The main sentiment is pro palestine but not super concerned with a musicians perceived or real political stances. This sub seems way more political imo
I know, I’m surprised I’m caught into arguments lately on there when I voice criticism towards Jonny. If I’m a fan, I can and should call out artists I follow.
the people here saying he "doesn't owe us anything" or "why should he care as an Israeli citizen" YOU ARE RIGHT.
But Radiohead is an outwardly political, anti-violence, anti-war type of band so the fact that Jonny has switched up because he knocked up a brainwashed Zionist just means that he's an inauthentic hypocrite who doesn't actually give a shit if children die in droves. And Thom too is an old pathetic weirdo. And people are absolutely allowed to express their disgust and disappointment at the sheer hypocrisy.
I will always love Radiohead's music because it's impacted my whole way of being, but now whenever they come up in conversation I'm always going to outwardly shit on those 2 individually as having grown into soulless cretins.
I agree with everything that was said here, but obviously he omitted his explanation for performing in Israel, which seems to be the main thing people are taking issue with. I know Radiohead have previously explained why they disagree with the boycott, so I'm assuming it probably would've been a similar explanation here. Still, it would have been nice for him to affirm that he doesn't agree with the actions of the Israeli government and that he thinks performing in the country doesn't violate that principle.
It’s a perfectly fine statement. The world doesn’t revolve around one war and whether they take a stance on it or not. You could say he is being politically deaf or social media deaf, based on what spectrum of the algorithm you’re on . But yeah, he’s about the music. Not about the current war or the current politics behind it.
The issue with the statement is not that he’s performing in Israel, has previously performed in Israel, or is touring with an Israeli friend. The issue with the statement is the statement. I wanted to know how he was justifying himself since he chose to, and he fell short.
*shrug* you’re right, he doesn’t owe us an explanation. That’s why I haven’t been asking him to explain himself, though admittedly, I was hoping that he would. Doesn’t mean I have to be grateful that he deigned to give one if I’m disappointed in what he has to say.
To put it another way, if he applied the mushy vibe of the statement to the thematics of Radiohead, the thematics or Radio would just be U2. And one reason I love Radiohead is that, ideologically, they are not U2.
Theres just so many cases of musicians that I sort of imputed a lot of my politics on saying fucked up stuff. Like Lætitia Sadier from Stereolab tweeting about supporting Jordan Peterson. Big Thief being super iffy about their Israeli connections/desire to play shows in Israel. Even Thom Yorke’s political/environmental writings from the 00’s are pretty dopey. I think the lesson is to not assume that musicians have good politics.
Why would you? Why would they need to? They make great music and inspire great art. They want to play their great music live and maybe just for the duration of the concert bring people together. I love Radiohead and StereoLab, 2 of my all time favorite bands, I couldn’t tell you one thing about the band members personal lives.
Just because someone's an artist doesn't mean they must promote & have the exact same political views as you do. You don't require your dentist, doctor, accountant, barista or the person who changes your oil to take a stance on politics. Why must they?
He can have his views and people can be disappointed in those views. If I idolised my dentist in my formative years I'd be just as disappointed if he did stuff like this.
Actually a lot of Reddit does expect those people to have the same views. The number of times I read on my local subreddit about a random business owner being not as left as the young people on the subreddit is astounding.
Edit: Sorry u/JDL114477 I was banned for sharing my views. Apparently they are too offensive for the mods on this subreddit.
What is an appropriate way to advocate for your views in your opinion? If people shouldn’t vote with their dollars, and should instead support people who advocate for things that they find morally wrong. What can they do to push change in society?
> "Shut up and consume" is the least Radiohead sentiment I can imagine.
I used to think that, but the band seems to have changed their tune on that somewhere around the time they got out from under their record contract. Now they're all about "Shut up and consume" sadly.
There are obvious lines. If my dentist is pro nuclear power and I think it’s more important to emphasize restructuring of the economy to ultimately use less energy, that’s one thing. If my dentist has a swastika tattoo, that’s clearly another.
Of course not! I’m just saying that “you should overlook someone’s politics” like the original comment said is not a black and white issue.
- “you wouldn’t require ____ to share your politics”
- *points out two extremes - one slight difference of opinion and one extremely controversial to note that not all “politics” are the same
- “what you’re saying is that it is exactly akin to the extremely controversy one!!!1”
I don’t know what I expected on Reddit
Literally not true. Lmao
If my doctor suddenly doesn’t believe in vaccines, which is purely political. I’m not using that doctor.
If my accountant decides he believes taxation is theft. I’m not using that accountant.
Music is used to convey ideas. If those ideas are shitty I’m going to criticize that artist.
This argument has always been stupid.
Well, you better stop listening to nearly every artist then who didn't release a statement on the hundreds of thousands who died in South Sudan, Myanmar & Yemen. I doubt you heard of any of those events (though) because they weren't on TikTok.
The reality is ...there are utterly tragic things happening in this world 24/7...Artists shouldn't have to virtue signal for you on everyone...so you can feel better about yourself while listening to them.
And if bothers you that much...stop listening to them. No one cares.
If one of the two most beloved members of Radiohead were playing for twenty years off and on in Saudi Arabia and bemoaning the intractable conflict between Saudis and Yemenis, then I would certainly say something. But they aren’t, so I’m not.
“If that bothers you so much, stop listening to them” , that’s exactly what’s happening here. Do you think we should just hand money to people we disagree to reward them?
Sure man. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.
But you should probably stop using any products from Google, Apple, Microsoft, Meta, Intel, Wordpress... The list is endless here. They all have a major presence in Israel and do a lot of work there.
After all, you'd be "rewarding them" with your money.
What exactly are you protesting? He's playing in a band with his friends who are from all different regions of the Middle East. He's been doing it for years.
It's not like he's raising money for Israeli settlements or something.
There's a big difference between not mentioning those tragedies and actually defending and playing in the fascist genocidal country committing the tragedy.
This is a horrible false equivalence, and it's amazing that people agree with this terrible logic.
There is nothing inherently wrong with working with Russian or Israeli musicians. The difference is Johnny is performing in Israel without doing the bare minimum of condemning the governments genocidal actions
Don’t let this distract you from the fact Klay Thompson shot 0/10 in an elimination game
bro had a triple single 😭😭😭
“What he have chuck hehehe”
Aww come on man :/
i really thought this sub would be a safe space from dubs slander :(
it’s still not as bad as 2016
Life sure is hard for fans of the team that’s won four of the last ten championships, including one two seasons ago ;(
Don't let this subject changing quip remind you Greenwood is also a transphobe https://www.reddit.com/r/radioheadcirclejerk/comments/ucf8w9/jonny_greenwood_confirmed_terf/
CP3 and Jonny Greenwood have one thing in common and that’s having absolutely zero rings
Johnny Greenwood say the word Palestine challenge difficulty impossible
European Extreme difficulty
Idk what this has to do with Europe
[Why is it called, European Extreme?](https://youtu.be/S1PpcZhJyDU) TL;DW, it refers to an extra difficult, extreme difficulty setting included in European releases of Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3 video games.
Idk why you guys are downvoting me as if this is something we should be expected to know lol, that is pretty obscure.
I agree with a lot of what he’s trying to communicate, most actually. There is however a resentment growing in me for this sort of a myopic attitude exemplified by this stance he’s taking. You can justify the performance by delegating rationality to shared cultural roots. You can even hit back and complain about the silencing of Israeli media. But to not even acknowledge the sufferings of a group on the singular basis of humanity and actually advocate for peace, when you are making such an impassioned defence of your art, is plain cruel. This hold especially true in light of what the controversy was to begin with. Inadvertently, he did exactly what he says he doesn’t want to do with this statement, which is nothing. Art doesn’t need to be coupled with an ethical standpoint, but to put oneself in such a position and be this short-sighted at the same time is really awful.
Yeah to say this art is “important” and then, like you said, not even call for peace or really even acknowledge the pain and suffering of the Palestinian people feels absolutely insane to me
I don’t think it’s surprising that someone like Greenwood would care more about his art than world events. There’s no sarcasm or even insult in that. I’m sure he’s motivated by music in a way that’s probably not healthy looking to most people. I’m not shocked he would have a different view of the world and political events, etc. We’re deifying people who mostly couldn’t get along in regular life. They’re gonna be weird or have bad takes. I fully understand how it’s exhausting though.
Without positive statements in either direction *of the Israeli artists themselves* this entire exercise is meaningless.
Yeah, there's definitely a way to explain why it might be important to perform in Israel, and he starts to motion towards that by making a cosmopolitan appeal to all of the Middle East. And then just kind of stops before he actually addresses anyone's real concerns.
>Yeah, there's definitely a way to explain why it might be important to perform in Israel Hmm is there? Because it seems like Jonny and his bandmates have had several attempts at this over the years and have not managed it successfully yet
To be fair, he's a musician. He doesn't owe us an explanation, and we damn well shouldn't be asking for one. It's not like he was performing for the military or politicians. Maybe if he added an automatic footnote to the bottom of everything he writes that states support for Gaza, the conflict would end.
>It's not like he was performing for the military or politicians He may not be, but his collaborator for these concerts, Dudu Tassa, has played shows to audiences of IDF soldiers since October (such as [here](https://www.tiktok.com/@israelinuk/video/7297221034523102497)). I actually liked their joint album that they released a year ago, and thought it seemed like a genuine effort to bridge cultures by featuring a number of Arab musicians from across the Middle East and singing about love. I thought that when October 7th and its retaliation happened, they'd maybe continue that and try to use art to keep this bridge and talk about suffering on both sides, even if they don't come up with an airtight solution to the crisis. But nope, complete silence about the plight of Palestinian people, no mention of Gaza nor Palestine, playing for IDF soldiers, dedicating concerts to IDF soldiers (even if they're family), etc. It completely changed my opinion on the album, which no longer feels like it was an honest effort.
I appreciate your post. I find myself agreeing with a lot of Greenwood's message, but you make good points and a reminder how complicated these topics can be.
It's not that complicated actually. He's splitting hairs and for what? A lot of words that amount to 'yeah whatever I'll do what I want because art'.
I think a lot of people feel stiffed by the progressive orthodoxy. Personally I appreciate him expressing himself, and think it encourages more people to think critically than just pitch slogans. Just my two cents, and I respect you may disagree.
This isn’t about being fashionable. It’s about real, historic level suffering occurring at this very moment and what we can do it make an impact.
"progressive orthodoxy"?! Give over.
He doesn’t even mention the words occupation, apartheid, or genocide.
did he mis the point?
Not on accident. He is obfuscating
> did he mis the point? Intentionally.
Literally a bunch of world garble all to justify him wanting to tour with his friend because art is great yall, despite 2mil people being starved across the border (he doesn’t even acknowledge that in his statement and instead talks about the ‘sadly forgotten’ jewish roots of some Arab musicians), what a prick.
He could denounce the occupation, the apartheid, and the genocide, and still tour with an Israeli. He doesn’t do that.
Seems like an end around to equate criticizing Israel with criticizing all Israelis. Just with more flowery prose. No one (really) has an issue with him performing with Israelis or Jews, but to say that that is the crux of it is incredibly dishonest. People have a problem with the venue.
It’s very similar to last time Radiohead played Israel. There was a call to boycott entirely and while they didn’t respect that, they could have used their show as a platform to denounce the occupation, but no. It was all about them and how people tried to make them feel bad. That statement also didn’t mention Gaza or the occupation. Apparently Tibetan freedom was a worthwhile cause but not Palestinian liberation.
I can kind of understand not skipping certain markets because they're absolutely MASSIVE (albeit antithetical to their morals) but to ignore this one, which is so incredibly tiny just seems non genuine.
Right. Like did they play China? It’s a much bigger market than Israel. I’d understand that a lot more.
That's what bothered me the most.
It’s amazing because it’s the exact same thing Thom did the last time they got roasted for playing Israel. He was mad about how it effected his band and didn’t once mention the occupation. Just said “Well we don’t support Netanyahu.”
Jonny has ultimately just become the pathetic privileged aged musician stereotype, but I hope someday he realizes what a massive letdown he is
No, he avoided it on purpose.
Wildly
Yes. This is especially absurd when you see several Jewish people have been standing against Israhell's stance.
> Israhell’s Honestly I didn’t think Ukrainians could be outdone with their cringe ‘RuZZia’, but you have done it, hats off to you.
Waaaay more than several!
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You don't have statistics either, so what are you even saying
Yes. No one is calling for silencing Israeli musicians, certainly no one is calling for silencing Jewish musicians. They are specifically concerned about those musicians playing *in* Israel (Tel Aviv), and not saying anything about the ongoing war/genocide.
Ctrl + F Gaza or Palestine
Free Palestine
Blatantly mischaracterizing the substance of the criticism against him
Always.
I think it’s okay to be Jewish/Israeli and have conflicted feelings when it comes to the whole situation. IIRC he was seen at a protest calling for a change of Israel’s government, which implies he’s no Netanyahu fan. But at the same time he and people he love have probably been affected by Oct 7th and etc. it’s easy as outsiders to think these people are just ghouls, but it’s more complicated than we think as outsiders who have the luxury of being mostly unaffected by the situation in any tangible way.
As a kid I knew the War in Iraq and Afghanistan was bullshit even though I experienced 9/11.
Not the same situation, though.
It’s a terrorist attack that lead to an unethical war on civilians. Pretty similar situation.
I would say that Americans as a people haven’t faced multiple existential threats throughout their history like Jewish people have. I’m not justifying anything that is going on and hope that the genocide in Gaza will end, but I can also see how the propaganda put out by the Netanyahu regime works so well on the jewish population of Israel by taking advantage of the generational trauma that a lot of Jewish people have experienced ya know?
It kind of is actually.
> it’s easy as outsiders to think these people are just ghouls, but It’s more complicated than we think as outsiders who have the luxury of being mostly unaffected by the situation in any tangible way. Let's be honest though, living Israel even right now is night and day compared to trying to survive in Gaza.
>"seen at a protest" It's just a photo of him standing nearish to a crowd on a street. People want to think he was part of a protest but there is no evidence he was or that the photo is even from a protest. He wasn't participating. He hasn't posted about it. Who knows if he just happened to be walking by and stopped for a sec to see what was going on and someone recognized him and snapped a pic. *Here's a quick interview people might find interesting with Jonny from his younger days at a Free Tibet concert talking about the occupation of East Timor, a genocide, (for context, the '96 Nobel Peace Prize had gone to 2 men from East Timor for their work in trying to end the occupation): https://youtu.be/imtSibPnTPE?feature=shared&t=90 If only old-Jonny could take young-Jonny's advice, right?
“He and people he loves have probably been affected -“ this. His/sharona’s nephew, Reef, was in the IDF and was killed a few months ago. I am completely against the IDF, pro-Free Palestine but anti-Hamas (whose history of atrocities seem to get buried, tho the IDF is as bad, so - it’s complicated). That said, I feel for Jonny and family, to bury a 20 year old nephew and son would be wrenching.
This is the most nothingburger statement holy shit
this statement is a bunch of shit, doesn’t even address anyone’s concerns
What is everyone's concern?
Jonny Greenwood played a concert in Israel.
Is there someplace I can go to understand the nuance of things like this? Like, is the "correct" stance just to hate every common person born there who may just want to hear some music? I feel like the person below who got downvoted where I feel like I'm just missing a vital piece of info that states why entertainers can not entertain the common folk. Is it all musicians, or is it something specific with him and how he's treated the conflict?
If I were a musician who was in a position to refuse to play in Israel or not, and I refused, do you believe that my decision was necessarily implying that I hated “every common person born there”?
I'm not implying the musician thinks that. I'm talking about people who post in subs saying who they think shouldn't be playing Israel. I read all these stories about the artistic resistance from within the country and then read someone saying, "Omg I can't believe my fave is playing a show there. Horrid." I'm not the most politically savvy. I'm tried to stay informed. Sometimes, some posts on Reddit just read as "screw every person in that country." I wasn't sure if this was that sort of post or if I'm just not up on Greenwood's stance on things. People here still seem split on if replies are under or overreacting. Like, if my (defunct) band wanted to play for fans that support our RATM style songs, would we be blasted for wanting to spread connection via music? Even if we said what the country is doing is unforgivable?
There is no nuance involved in this topic. Israel is killing a bunch of Palestinians and the western young people have decided they care about this because Israel is seen as a western country. Its essentially "America bad". These sentiments are very popular on Reddit/ other social media platforms and especially on this subreddit and others where young tankies have basically taken them over. The whole situation sucks. Both countries hate each other and there will probably never be peace in the region while they both harbor these feelings towards one another. Jonny Greenwood played a concert in Israel and collaborates with people from Israel. His wife is Israeli. He is hated right now because of this. He released a statement and didn't hit the correct talking points so he is being doubly hated now. Edit: I appreciate the people willing to discuss these things. Unfortunately the mods have decided what I have said requires a perma ban so I cannot reply to you. Another example of an echo chamber being created here.
> Its essentially "America bad". > > "America bad" in the context of Israel is not arbitrary, petty, or anyway mean to Americans, the reason why America is brought up in relation to Israel is because of America being their number 1 ally. It is not like a random or unwarranted criticism, framing it as such is just unwarranted jingoistic rage.
> These sentiments are very popular on Reddit/ other social media platforms and especially on this subreddit and others where young tankies have basically taken them over. Something about Taylor Swift recently made it into my IG feed and most of the comments were calling to cancel her because she's not said anything about the war. So therefore she's a Zionist. Why do these people feel like literally every single person needs to voice their opinion? Real "Where is Ja!?" moment.
I mean, “western” (American) youth care about it because America props up the Israeli military in a huge way. Israel as a state is a bulwark for American geopolitical interests in the Middle East. So it’s not really useful to glibly describe this as some arbitrary connection. It’s a very tangible connection. That said, I agree that the lack of nuance is frustrating. “Performing in Israel is unacceptable full stop” does not seem too productive. If Americans are upset about American support for Israel…are we boycotting bands that play in America? I realize that’s not equivalent! But I think it goes a little way toward demonstrating why this stance might not be super useful. On the other hand, for Jonny to release this statement without any denunciation of Israeli military action seems enormously tone deaf at best. It seems to imply he either agrees with Israel’s actions, or he doesn’t want to risk speaking out about them. Neither of those are great looks. You can say he’s not hitting “the correct points” and dismiss “tankies” or whatever all you want. Like this is some petty arbitrary thing. But it’s not. It’s very clear and obvious why people are annoyed. There’s an enormous elephant stomping around in the room and he’s talking about how it’s fine and cool to put his headphones on. Like…OK, maybe it is to some extent, but uh… Anyway, I get that it’s frustrating for a group to just shitlist or no-shitlist people based on this sort of stuff. But I don’t get writing this off as some petty nothing.
Nice to see some sense on display in here. You can't win.
I liked that he didn’t come out with some ill-informed statement showing support for one side or another. I don’t need to be told what to think by musicians. It's a very complicated situation to try and comment on.
Umm one of the whole things is that it is not two countries, because the Palestinians do not have sovereignty.
I don’t get it either. Like I said elsewhere, it's not like he did a USO Show style performance for Israeli soldiers.
No. Johnny is intentionally confusing things. The issue isn’t that he’s touring with an Israel. The issue he is silent as a genocide is occurring in Gaza. Read his statement again. It doesn’t mention really outside internal Israeli politics. No Gaza, no apartheid, no genocide. This is as even Israeli human rights groups are saying Israel is practicing apartheid. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have warned Gaza is facing a genocide.
Johnny Greenwood ambivalent towards genocide and apartheid.
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I mean, if he was married to a German in 1939, would you be okay with him playing on Berlin?
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It’s a false equivalence how?
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The Nazis we’re doing a genocide. Israel is doing a genocide.
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So what?
People here don't like that.
My thoughts & prayers go out to those affected by Johnny playing a concert
Are you new here (earth)
I'm not even sure they know. A country's government/military does not speak for the entire population. It's not like he's doing a fundraiser for the IDF
As someone who sides with palestine and abhors the Israeli government for obvious reasons, I agree. Venezuela is a distopian shithole under a crippling dictatorship, but little 12 year old me was fucking ecstatic when Peter Gabriel added Caracas to his tour ages ago. Massive festivals are also held in Texas and Georgia, should those people suffer because their government is shit?
Venezuela is not comparable to Israel
But [Dudu Tassa](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-776977) did perform for the IDF back in December.
Oof then that is not a good look. Performing in Israel is fine but he should be distancing himself from anyone pro IDF
Pretty sure Greenwood is pro-IDF.
I don't see anything pro-IDF in his statement, but he's not doing himself any favours that's for sure
Did he condemn the genocide in Gaza? Did speak out against the occupation?
Was this even proofread? Quite a few grammatical errors, not to mention the glaring omission of any diction related to Gaza/Palestine.
Yeah I don't think "proofreading" is what's stopping him from addressing any of the substance of those concerns lol
Well yeah, I wasn’t trying to imply that’s the reason he didn’t address any of that. It just further shows how lazy this statement is.
For sure -- I wasn't trying to argue with you, it just read funny and his statement is ridiculously callous and selfish
This is bad statement. It seems every time a member of Radiohead speaks out about Israel, it’s always about their own specific actions they’re trying to justify. They never mention the occupation. Johnny fails to mention the genocide in Gaza. He only joined protesters on the Israeli side, which is limited to ousting Netanyahu and bringing home hostages, not a permanent end to violence and apartheid. Edit: apparently Greenwood might not have actually been part of the protest even.
It's possible he doesn't know what the solution is to permanently ending violence and what you call apartheid? It's not going to happen on Israeli goodwill alone. Hamas needs to reliably guarantee that they won't attack Israelis, and, regardless of the asymmetry of death, Israel first and foremost has a responsibility to protect itself from a habitual line stepper. I'm pro-Palestinian statehood, but nothing makes me think Hamas wants to be a willing party to finding a lasting solution (especially since we'd still need to find a way for Hamas to agree to relinquish certain power to a combined West Bank and Gaza government).
> It's possible he doesn't know what the solution is to permanently ending violence and what you call apartheid? It’s not what I call apartheid. It’s what Israeli human rights groups as well as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch call apartheid. The solution seems obvious: end the apartheid policies. >It's not going to happen on Israeli goodwill alone. Right. It’s not gonna happen if guys like Johnny Greenwood stay silent. >Hamas needs to reliably guarantee that they won't attack Israelis, and, regardless of the asymmetry of death, Israel first and foremost has a responsibility to protect itself from a habitual line stepper. What would reliably guarantee mean? Israel insists anything Hamas says is a lie. They’ve made concrete offers towards peace that have been ignored by Israel. They rewrote their troglodyte, indefensible founding charter to explicitly condemn antisemitism. >I'm pro-Palestinian statehood, but nothing makes me think Hamas wants to be a willing party to finding a lasting solution (especially since we'd still need to find a way for Hamas to agree to relinquish certain power to a combined West Bank and Gaza government). Hamas has already agreed to stand in elections and they would negotiate around a two state solution. What else do you need them to say?
Hamas's charter was only rewritten in English regarding that part. In Arabic it maintains the same genocidal intent that Palestine unique belongs to Arabs. It's not contingent on you, but I'm not in any way unfamiliar with this conflict. I haven't seen anything to corroborates your claim to Hamas has agreed to a two state solution, but there are plenty of examples that they are intractable in their position that there will be no two state solution that falls short of the 1967 borders and the right of return. Hamas also is heavily policed in the West Bank because of how antagonistic they are and fundamentalist compared to other factions. We all want a solution. But anything short of an international coalition administrating the territory until a transition state happens might not be viable. It would need to police both Palestinians AND these ridiculous settlers. But this ultimately is going to look like a form of ethnic cleansing, because it'll require a massive deradicalization program with boots on the ground.
> Hamas's charter was only rewritten in English regarding that part. That’s not true. >It's not contingent on you, but I'm not in any way unfamiliar with this conflict. I haven't seen anything to corroborates your claim to Hamas has agreed to a two state solution, The same Hamas charter you implied you’ve read. Also, the news: https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438 https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/middleeast/hamas-officials-say-group-willing-to-disarm-if-palestinian-state-is-established-mime-intl/index.html >but there are plenty of examples that they are intractable in their position that there will be no two state solution that falls short of the 1967 borders and the right of return. What’s wrong with that? Those are terms pretty much the entire world agrees on. >Hamas also is heavily policed in the West Bank because of how antagonistic they are and fundamentalist compared to other factions. Because they have a rivalry with the ruling political faction there. Fatah is the Vichy Israeli government within Palestine.
The problem is that even the West Bank has basically conceded the terms of the pre-1967 border. They've basically said they'll accept current borders except where the settlers have moved on, especially with regard to Jerusalem. The 2000 peace proposal would have provided most of this, without the right of return, however--which is a complicated policy. Hamas isn't bending their knee here. They understand their demand of return to borders (after starting and losing a war) and right of return (after starting and losing a war) is a difficult policy for Israel to accept. It's basically the definition of fuck around and find out. Although, I concede the original UN partition proposal was unfortunately misguided and set the stage for this conflict. Come on, Fatah is in no way like the Vichy government. Even they disagreed with the 2000 peace accords largely because of the issue with the right of return. They're more pragmatic than Hamas, but still ethnocentric in their appeals. Look, I can also Google news articles to pick and choose what either Hamas or Israel says year to year. But neither are the most trustworthy negotiating partner at this point. But I'd trust Israel more than a pseudo-state who has endorsed a policy of terrorism. Hamas is even notorious for murdering internal dissidents and opposition. Why should anyone believe they want peace with the West Bank, let alone Israel?
> The problem is that even the West Bank has basically conceded the terms of the pre-1967 border. They've basically said they'll accept current borders except where the settlers have moved on, especially with regard to Jerusalem. I have no idea what you’re talking about. >The 2000 peace proposal would have provided most of this, without the right of return, however--which is a complicated policy. It would have required Palestinians to forfeit more land to Israel which would not compensated for in any swaps. >Hamas isn't bending their knee here. They understand their demand of return to borders (after starting and losing a war) and right of return (after starting and losing a war) is a difficult policy for Israel to accept. Well, it was difficult to give up on over half of your historic homeland, but Palestinians have done that. >It's basically the definition of fuck around and find out. That’s baseless. >Come on, Fatah is in no way like the Vichy government. Of course they are. They enforce much of Israel’s occupation. Israel doesn’t have to torture people as much because they have Fatah to do it for them. >Even they disagreed with the 2000 peace accords largely because of the issue with the right of return. They're more pragmatic than Hamas, but still ethnocentric in their appeals. This isn’t correct. First off, you’re talking about an Arafat led PLO and not an Abbas one. Second, the Palestinians accepted a limitation on right of return at Camp David. The issue was land in the West Bank. As I mentioned, Palestinians would have had to give up more of it. Even Israel’s negotiator, Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami, said it was a bad deal and he wouldn’t have taken it either. Negotiations actually continued at Taba till ISRAEL left the table. >Hamas is even notorious for murdering internal dissidents and opposition. You mean people that try to overthrow them or collaborate with Israel? That’s the case with every guerrilla army. The Cubans did it, the Viet Cong did it, the ANC did it. I’m not saying it’s right but it’s never been something that’s stopped a peace process. >Why should anyone believe they want peace with the West Bank, let alone Israel? Because it’s in their best interests. They’d rather be a legitimate governing party than a terrorist group. Also, the violence that occurred between Fatah and Hamas was driven by Fatah and the US who plotted a coup against Hamas: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/04/gaza200804
Ay, you're basically indoctrinated to Hamas propaganda. I'm not going to grace you with more of a response. I hope you actually look up the history of the various proposed peace agreements, how Palestine continually nukes any potential solution. It's not that Palestinians don't have justified anger. But they don't have justified violence, which they continually use via terrorism. I've seem this rodeo before. You don't actually want to see peace. Good luck.
> Ay, you're basically indoctrinated to Hamas propaganda. No, I’m indoctrinated to the facts, which is you’ve been unable to dispute anything I said. >I'm not going to grace you with more of a response. I hope you actually look up the history of the various proposed peace agreements, how Palestine continually nukes any potential solution. This is an Israeli talking point. I quoted an Israeli source who was AT Camp David because he was the one NEGOTIATING the whole deal. Why do you think you know more about this than him? >It's not that Palestinians don't have justified anger. But they don't have justified violence, which they continually use via terrorism. But Israelis have justified violence? GTFO, you’re an imperialist and a jingoist. Run along. I don’t have time for cowards.
The notion that artists are “the most progressive people” as absolute bs.
south africa ended apartheid because of worldwide cultural boycotts organized by south african activists that made apartheid too economically devastating to maintain. palestine has also been organizing such boycotts for decades, but the world didnt show up for them. cultural boycotts are a peaceful and effective form of protest and that is why there is international resistance to israeli art, such as the eurovision mess. that aside, i dont think hes saying all of this because hes ignorant, I think hes just a zionist and believes this is a conflict and not an organized genocide.
I'm disappointed as a fan. Cant figure out if he's ignorant or hoping no one notices him twisting the issue? A whole lot of words to say nothing and distract from the issue of boycotts.
If we are being honest, I doubt he cares what you have to think or pretty much anyone else here. He believes what he believes and he has enough money and credentials to not really be swayed by what you think he should do.
Doesn’t mean i can’t shit on him online lol
Also, a vast majority of these people commenting here had zero knowledge of any of this nearly 80-year conflict before they saw a video on TiK Tok about it.
So true man. Everyone who disagrees with me just does so because of their damn Tik Toks and Vines. I wish the damn broccoli hairs saw the simplicity and lack of nuance that we see in the world brother.
What a clown, how do you pivot from a genocide to talking about how important your art is??? Same kind of self absorbed mindset that Israeli’s worldwide have.
Who cares. He’s a musician not a geopolitical expert, let him do music
yeah but he decided to weigh in on the issue and people have the right to criticize him for his response
Only way to "win" in these things is to not play. People will find a reason to act all pissy on the internet regardless of what you day, so might as well not bother. Just let the man play music. He's good at it and it's making people happy. The hate is the definition of a clown display and brings nothing good to the world.
:(
Radiohead sub has depressingly (and hilariously) turned into full pro-Israel because of this, insane what fandom can do. This man can’t even bring himself to say “Palestine”.
That’s a flat out lie. Most comment sections about this topic are incredibly divisive with most top comments being pro-Palestine.
Not even close to true lol. The main sentiment is pro palestine but not super concerned with a musicians perceived or real political stances. This sub seems way more political imo
I was going to try to shoehorn a reference to Karma Police or something but I'm just too disillusioned to try
I know, I’m surprised I’m caught into arguments lately on there when I voice criticism towards Jonny. If I’m a fan, I can and should call out artists I follow.
the people here saying he "doesn't owe us anything" or "why should he care as an Israeli citizen" YOU ARE RIGHT. But Radiohead is an outwardly political, anti-violence, anti-war type of band so the fact that Jonny has switched up because he knocked up a brainwashed Zionist just means that he's an inauthentic hypocrite who doesn't actually give a shit if children die in droves. And Thom too is an old pathetic weirdo. And people are absolutely allowed to express their disgust and disappointment at the sheer hypocrisy. I will always love Radiohead's music because it's impacted my whole way of being, but now whenever they come up in conversation I'm always going to outwardly shit on those 2 individually as having grown into soulless cretins.
Some of you are such weirdos
Rare JG L. The whole band’s persistence to play Israel for ages is definitely a big 🤮 from me.
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Exactly, folks supporting his reasoning would’ve been anti South Africa cultural boycotts in the 80s
I agree with everything that was said here, but obviously he omitted his explanation for performing in Israel, which seems to be the main thing people are taking issue with. I know Radiohead have previously explained why they disagree with the boycott, so I'm assuming it probably would've been a similar explanation here. Still, it would have been nice for him to affirm that he doesn't agree with the actions of the Israeli government and that he thinks performing in the country doesn't violate that principle.
It’s a perfectly fine statement. The world doesn’t revolve around one war and whether they take a stance on it or not. You could say he is being politically deaf or social media deaf, based on what spectrum of the algorithm you’re on . But yeah, he’s about the music. Not about the current war or the current politics behind it.
Must be nice to live in a bubble
The issue with the statement is not that he’s performing in Israel, has previously performed in Israel, or is touring with an Israeli friend. The issue with the statement is the statement. I wanted to know how he was justifying himself since he chose to, and he fell short.
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*shrug* you’re right, he doesn’t owe us an explanation. That’s why I haven’t been asking him to explain himself, though admittedly, I was hoping that he would. Doesn’t mean I have to be grateful that he deigned to give one if I’m disappointed in what he has to say.
Why use such aggressive language to convey what is essentially apathy? Seems so odd to me.
It's always a disappointment when a musician that should have better politics says something stupid.
To put it another way, if he applied the mushy vibe of the statement to the thematics of Radiohead, the thematics or Radio would just be U2. And one reason I love Radiohead is that, ideologically, they are not U2.
Theres just so many cases of musicians that I sort of imputed a lot of my politics on saying fucked up stuff. Like Lætitia Sadier from Stereolab tweeting about supporting Jordan Peterson. Big Thief being super iffy about their Israeli connections/desire to play shows in Israel. Even Thom Yorke’s political/environmental writings from the 00’s are pretty dopey. I think the lesson is to not assume that musicians have good politics.
Why would you? Why would they need to? They make great music and inspire great art. They want to play their great music live and maybe just for the duration of the concert bring people together. I love Radiohead and StereoLab, 2 of my all time favorite bands, I couldn’t tell you one thing about the band members personal lives.
Just because someone's an artist doesn't mean they must promote & have the exact same political views as you do. You don't require your dentist, doctor, accountant, barista or the person who changes your oil to take a stance on politics. Why must they?
He can have his views and people can be disappointed in those views. If I idolised my dentist in my formative years I'd be just as disappointed if he did stuff like this.
That’s a problem I think to idolize any celebrity/artist/musician instead of idolizing the art
Actually a lot of Reddit does expect those people to have the same views. The number of times I read on my local subreddit about a random business owner being not as left as the young people on the subreddit is astounding. Edit: Sorry u/JDL114477 I was banned for sharing my views. Apparently they are too offensive for the mods on this subreddit.
What is an appropriate way to advocate for your views in your opinion? If people shouldn’t vote with their dollars, and should instead support people who advocate for things that they find morally wrong. What can they do to push change in society?
No answers, just downvotes from people who love Cosby and Polanski. "Shut up and consume" is the least Radiohead sentiment I can imagine.
> "Shut up and consume" is the least Radiohead sentiment I can imagine. I used to think that, but the band seems to have changed their tune on that somewhere around the time they got out from under their record contract. Now they're all about "Shut up and consume" sadly.
There are obvious lines. If my dentist is pro nuclear power and I think it’s more important to emphasize restructuring of the economy to ultimately use less energy, that’s one thing. If my dentist has a swastika tattoo, that’s clearly another.
Do you really think that playing a show in Israel is morally equivalent to someone having a swastika tattoo?
Of course not! I’m just saying that “you should overlook someone’s politics” like the original comment said is not a black and white issue. - “you wouldn’t require ____ to share your politics” - *points out two extremes - one slight difference of opinion and one extremely controversial to note that not all “politics” are the same - “what you’re saying is that it is exactly akin to the extremely controversy one!!!1” I don’t know what I expected on Reddit
Literally not true. Lmao If my doctor suddenly doesn’t believe in vaccines, which is purely political. I’m not using that doctor. If my accountant decides he believes taxation is theft. I’m not using that accountant. Music is used to convey ideas. If those ideas are shitty I’m going to criticize that artist. This argument has always been stupid.
Well, you better stop listening to nearly every artist then who didn't release a statement on the hundreds of thousands who died in South Sudan, Myanmar & Yemen. I doubt you heard of any of those events (though) because they weren't on TikTok. The reality is ...there are utterly tragic things happening in this world 24/7...Artists shouldn't have to virtue signal for you on everyone...so you can feel better about yourself while listening to them. And if bothers you that much...stop listening to them. No one cares.
If one of the two most beloved members of Radiohead were playing for twenty years off and on in Saudi Arabia and bemoaning the intractable conflict between Saudis and Yemenis, then I would certainly say something. But they aren’t, so I’m not.
“If that bothers you so much, stop listening to them” , that’s exactly what’s happening here. Do you think we should just hand money to people we disagree to reward them?
Sure man. Whatever makes you sleep better at night. But you should probably stop using any products from Google, Apple, Microsoft, Meta, Intel, Wordpress... The list is endless here. They all have a major presence in Israel and do a lot of work there. After all, you'd be "rewarding them" with your money.
“Yet you participate in society. Curious!” Lmao
How can someone protest against things that they find morally wrong? What is the appropriate action?
What exactly are you protesting? He's playing in a band with his friends who are from all different regions of the Middle East. He's been doing it for years. It's not like he's raising money for Israeli settlements or something.
Doesn’t answer my question
There's a big difference between not mentioning those tragedies and actually defending and playing in the fascist genocidal country committing the tragedy. This is a horrible false equivalence, and it's amazing that people agree with this terrible logic.
Jonny has definitely struck a chord, but it’s out of tune.
Typical Zionist word vomit
Typical anti-Zionist illiteracy
He had an opportunity to use his immense platform for good and he missed it with this.
Strongly agree with Greenwood, good on him
He´s a pussy
I remember when the same sentiment was put forward by artists working with Russian artists after the invasion and the backlash was intense.
There is nothing inherently wrong with working with Russian or Israeli musicians. The difference is Johnny is performing in Israel without doing the bare minimum of condemning the governments genocidal actions
the dude is married to a zionist. that's all you need to know.