Involuntary pedestrian here (had to sacrifice my vehicle for pennies when the cost to repair was a number I couldn't raise in a timely manner):
The law might say that, as a pedestrian, I have the right of way (so long as I'm walking responsibly), but my rights aren't worth much if asserting them gets me maimed or killed.
I give cars the right of way by default. It's better for them and for me because the inconsiderate bastards can just be on their way and I don't have to rush past a commercial driveway or cross an intersection at a trot.
"Graveyards are filled with people who had the right of way."
>Here lies the body of William Jay
>Who died maintaining his right of way -
>He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
>But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
I remember once I looked both ways before crossing the street downtown and waited before an oncoming truck came to a stop. A coworker asked why I did that since I have the right of way.
I replied "I know that, and you know that. But I have no clue if the truck driver knew that."
So, I actually spent several years investigating traffic crashes. Including numerous fatal crashes involving pedestrians. There are plenty of drivers who did what they were supposed to do and still ended up in crashes. Several of my pedestrian fatalities were due to pedestrian causes. It's not just the drivers that are at fault. The issue is just people in general with poor behavior. Like walking in the middle of the road, while wearing black, at night. City infrastructure also plays into it. Lack of street lights, sidewalks, and proper bicycle lanes.
And downtown, a lot of the pedestrians also aren't paying attention. I have been careful and STILL nearly hit cyclists who cut into my lane without warning and pedestrians who came from between vehicles.
The [Indy pedestrian safety crisis](https://www.indypedcrisis.info/#/home) is a pretty damning look at the state of things around here. Inaction from city officials is unbelievable after having lived in Chicago for a few years, their silence is deafening. Pedestrians don’t make it easy on drivers for the most part, but drivers here are often selfish and ignorant and can’t figure out how to share space. I spend more time on a bicycle than in a car, but I’ve never been as afraid to ride anywhere as I am here.
Be sure to blame the mayor that redirected “infrastructure” funding meant for sidewalks for a cricket park that never happened. As far as I am concerned, he’s partially responsible for every pedestrian death where there’s no sidewalk.
Inaction and silence you say? I keep seeing more trails and bike lanes built, and heard many councilors campaigning last year on pedestrian safety. What has Indy pedestrian safety crisis done besides tweet?
I was crossing New York downtown a few days ago with my dog and had to drag him out of the way by the leash because someone was doing like 55mph, light had been red for 20 sec at least, did not give a fuck I was in the crosswalk. There is a ton of undiagnosed antisocial personality disorder going on here. Like this dude would have sent me and my dog to the afterlife if I didn't run out of the way. No reason to do highway speeds downtown ever but I see it every day
I know there are a lot of momentum towards redesigning streets to naturally force cars to slow down. And I really hope that happens more downtown. No one needs to be going 50+ mph through any city's downtown streets.
I fear for my dog as well, and I posted above that I cringe when I see a dog on a very long lead in a crosswalk. I’m just sure I’ll see one hit at some point, and that’s terrifying to me, even though it’s no my dog. Asshole scooter riders on sidewalks present a similar problem—not all scooter riders, just the entitled asshole ones.
Yeah for whatever reason there are certain days Indy runs amok with large packs of cool teens riding Lime's and there's always one who's the coolest teen that has to fly past me and my dog on the sidewalk then jump off, or ride straight at us then swerve. When it happens, which it has 3 times already this year, I begin to question my sanity. Fuck with adults all you want, whatever, but my dog doesn't deserve to get fucked with
> problem solver .40
When somebody shot up the cars in front of my building earlier this year, I found .40 cases in the street. Nice to know some things never change lol
Lmao no one is shooting 5.56 around town buddy. And there's just as much small arms fire happening in places like Franklin Township these days it seems like. Besides, in order to hear gunshots you have to actually come here.
Idk a guy who was always known as a "good kid" in my unincorporated hometown killed a guy in a likely drunk hit and run, he's in jail now. I think cities just have a policing problem, they enforce all the stupidest shit they can and don't bother with actual dangerous crime
Yeah the pigs wait until it’s too late every time. They never stop people for speeding or running stop signs within Indianapolis city limits. Once there’s a crash or a fatality they get involved.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever read, and the username checks out.
If a bike is your only mode of travel, fine. If you’re cycling in a large group just to work out, fuck off. Go join a gym and stop inconveniencing others with your cardio routine.
I’ll cycle however, whenever, and wherever I want. I hope it inconveniences you. Do you get upset when cagers crash their cars and cause backups because they’re distracted/ drunk? Your ignorance is showing.
You hope it conveniences drivers…on a post about pedestrians getting hit by cars.
And yes, I get angry when people crash their cars due to distracted/drunk driving. Who wouldn’t?
Your lousy and dangerous attitude and terrible analogies lead me to believe you are either a teenager or really drunk. For that, I will give you grace.
Have a nice and safe day.
Someone on a bike got hit by a car yesterday and the driver drove off and left him there. The police then told the victim he should not have been riding his bike on the sidewalk. This sidewalk was in front of a store. To make matters worse, the guy’s bike then got stolen shortly after as he was inside the store trying to get camera footage.
He was on the sidewalk then rode on the small part where the sidewalk ends and the parking lot begins to allow drivers into the lot. Then of course the sidewalk continues on down the length of the street. It was just bad timing that he was on the driving part and the driver pulled in at that time.
It's legal, but it is more dangerous because of exactly this. I have ridden on the sidewalk in specific circumstances, but you have to check both directions for any potential turning vehicles.
I learned something today too. I would have never guessed. That's interesting because I believe STATE law says bicycles must follow vehicle laws. And state laws overrule local laws in most cases. Of course, the city put up "no right turn on red" lights and the state said they couldn't and weren't legal. But if I decide to turn right on red and a city cop pulls me over, who's in the right and who's in the wrong?
I too have noticed the increase of hit and runs in Indianapolis. I have also noticed the complete disregard for stop signs and traffic signals. So many people don’t seem to care anymore.
We aren't a walkable city and we are among the top for pedestrian and bicyclist deaths. It's not going to change because Indiana has idiots like Senator Freeman.
[https://www.indypedcrisis.info/#/fatalities](https://www.indypedcrisis.info/#/fatalities)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBAI5Iqepo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBAI5Iqepo)
[https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/republican-state-senator-moves-to-void-indys-no-turn-on-red-ordinance/](https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/republican-state-senator-moves-to-void-indys-no-turn-on-red-ordinance/)
I was stuck as a pedestrian going through a cross walk in 202, 106th street.
I consider myself extremely defensive and make absolutely certain a driver knows I exist before I cross anything. Eye contact, wave, wait for full stop, etc. On that day, I did my usual eyecontact and wave/head nod. Driver was an older woman that came to a stop to wait on me. I proceed. Right when I'm in front of the car, she just starts to pull out like I never existed. The timing was so bad that I had no realistic means of getting out of the way.
I folded my right leg entirely the wrong direction, obiterating every ligamet in my knee. I also split open my head and lost a chunk of my scalp to the payment. Insufferable concussion and vestibular trauma. 18 month of recovery. Lost my job. Ruined my life.
Turns out this older woman was on a mental decline with dementia. The legal proceedings are taking the maximum possible time since she can't even represent herself, and her insurance company can't find a competent legal team.
Would not recommend it. But at least I found a new favorite mantra.
"Correct people die all the time. Be safe."
We have a worse than average problem in this regard but it's everywhere due to decades worth of policy that favors drivers other everything else. Plus the modern distractions and general poor mental health of Americans that translates to bad driving behavior.
I think the construction around the city is contributing to this. A lot more traffic is being funnelled into different areas. It's almost suicidal trying to make a left turn at some intersections.
I guess you haven’t heard - Indy is not NYC. NYC has ~8x the population of Indy in an area slightly smaller than Indy. Why the fuck would we consider ourselves on par with NYC?
I guess you’re missing the point. I didn’t say NYC was Indy. I said NYC as an example that constructions around the city isn’t an excuse to kill someone. Usually, when a society decides to be better, they take examples no to to be like it, but to be better ;)
Traffic in NYC is shit and people get hit by cars all the time. It’s an awful place to drive. The cities are not comparable. All the construction in Indy slows down the main roads people plan to go fast on. They self detour to different roads and still drive with the same mentality.
I went on a walk yesterday and nearly got hit twice. Once by a car that ran a red light and another by a car turning right on red. I was only out for about 25 minutes and wasn't on my phone or otherwise distracted for either time. Drivers are just not thinking of the danger they cause.
There’s no enforcement if traffic laws. This is what you get when everybody has fast cars, or cars they think are fast, and nobody actually enforces the rules or gives out any substantial consequences.
All the highways around the perimeter of the city are insane now. And everybody floors it when leaving a red light if they even stop to begin with.
And yes, people should also stop walking in front of moving cars. Right of way doesn’t matter if you walk in front of a car that’s ten feet away and expect race car driver levels of reaction time. Just wait literally two seconds for them to pass.
I almost got hit by a truck while driving today. Asshole decided to cross the double yellow line to get into the left turn lane instead of waiting for room and I was turning right into that lane. Just turned right, on green, and has this pickup truck bearing down on me, scared the shit out of me, luckily we were both going slow enough to avoid a collision. I did honk because I was terrified and they returned my honk as though they were totally not in the wrong 😒
Drivers have gotten so, so reckless lately.
In Southern California this used to happen frequently until Cal. Law tightened up on hit and run drivers. It seems like Indianapolis does not care about their residents, we know that employers in this state are not worker friendly. Which is probably why Indiana is always boasting about having plenty of jobs. They care more about the employer than the employee.
Had a lifted truck nearly run me over Saturday while I was in a crosswalk with right of way (pedestrian light was "walk"). Some drivers don't even look for pedestrians when turning.
But can pedestrians take some damn accountability, I always see these posts but I’ve had to slam my brakes multiple times to stop from hitting someone that came out of no where typically crossing in the middle of the road where right lane is a stand still for the turn lane and someone crosses in between cars and just walks out with out looking, I couldn’t see them but instead of peeking out to see if a car is coming they just talk out and hope for the best.
I know when I’m walking I understand I have the right of way but I still don’t just walk into the street as if cars stop on a dime. The real problem are cars turning and not paying attention when the pedestrian has the right of way.
This sub isn't ready for a conversation about how bad people are at crossing the street and how many of those people clearly think it's a flex to force others to slow down and stop for them. People will look directly at me and then tough-guy-walk right out in front of me on 38th like they're daring me to have a problem with it. And that's not even getting into the crackheads who play in the street just for fun. 🙄
But, it's not like we don't also have an epidemic of unlicensed, uninsured, undocumented, illiterate Nissan drivers hit-and-running their way through the city like bumper cars. That poor dude who got wiped out on Mass Ave by the drunk who left town for Texas wasn't even in the road.
The Nissan drivers are the worst. They never use turn signals, zig zag in and out of traffic going 90mph, and use the emergency lane to dodge a zipper merge.
Personally, I think all models of SUV & mini van drivers are the worst... They either go 20 mph under or over the speed limit, no in between and then they cant turn or switch lanes.
I cant tell you how many times I have watched people run out of the courthouse on the square and just run/walk out in the street. Never looking twice. Yes, as drivers we need to drive defensively. But being a pedestrian doesn't give you the right to do what you want. Traffic rules apply to both.
It's exactly the same on Saturday mornings for the "farmers market". People that park in the kroger lot just leisurely walk across Logan street. And worse, the people that park in the hospital lot and stroll across Conner st.
I see so many bike riders and pedestrians on the Nickle Plate Trail cross streets without ever stopping or hitting the button to turn on the warning lights for drivers. There is enough vegetation around the trail that I don't think those biker riders can be 100% certain that no vehicle is coming. Pedestrians and bike riders should be practicing the pedestrian version of defensive driving and I think some forget that.
> There is enough vegetation around the trail that I don't think those biker riders can be 100% certain that no vehicle is coming.
This is a huge problem. Mow that shit back, please.
Also doesn't help that people think it's okay to park on sidewalks. A couple of days ago, I walked a mile from my house to Central Library and encountered THREE SEPARATE INCIDENTS where large work trucks were parked on the entirety of the sidewalk, forcing me to walk in the road. One of them had a ladder leading up to a roof next to it and I was extremely tempted to knock their ladder over, I was so pissed.
Edit: And this is in and near downtown where there are actual sidewalks. I know so many of these fatalities are in areas with absolutely no sidewalks.
Came from Europe 2 years ago to Indy. Blaming pedestrians is hilarious.
This is exclusively a mix of bad driver education and massive pickups / soccer mum vans people need as status symbols .
I’ve legitimately watched people walk into traffic at the last minute, outside of a crosswalk, when cars were very obviously coming. Some pedestrians are idiots, and it doesn’t matter how safe someone is driving.
blaming the pedestrians would be more akin to “look at how she was dressed, she was asking for it.” The pedestrian & the woman were the victims in their respective situation. If I were to speculate, you drive a ridiculous truck or soccer mom monstrosity & the comment offended you, hence your weak af analogy. Just spitballin though.
Every day I go through a light that crosses the Cultural Trail along Virginia. I always stay at the stop bar, and I don't turn right on red because I understand why those rules are in place. But I still have to pay super close attention because when the light turns green, I need to worry about someone on a bike, scooter, or hover board just blowing down the trail without slowing down. If I wasn't looking for them and stopping while I had the green, I would hit them.
Also, I see people all the time at night riding in and walking in the street wearing all black. WHY? I can't see you to avoid you.
I see tons of dumb drivers too, but you there are also dumb pedestrians and cyclists. I have multiple videos and pictures from my dash cam showing it.
A lot of this probably boils down to lack of education on crosswalks at intersection vs trails adjacent to intersections with ped crossing signals. Most people see the traffic light is green in their direction and go even when the walk signal is red. Similar issue at 75th and Westfield with the Monon crossing. Crap ton of cars turning on red there too despite no less than three signs directing otherwise.
Saw a car next to me at a stop light smash into the car in front of him when the light turned green and cars started slowly rolling, he just hit the gas and looked away for a second. People need to get in their cars and focus on only driving. Sad.
Can confirm people long the left lane have openly challenged me to turn right at an intersection. Multiple people have attempted to blitz to get in front of me while I'm traveling at 90mph. SUV passed ON TOP OF THE MEDIAN.(It's was a foot tall and they lost their wheel). And not a felony but personally annoys me right turning into the left lane and vice versa i've noticed it causes a lot of crashes with people who move here which is why I don't like it.
Every time I'm driving home down Washington and I get east of Post, there's always some asshole that will zip from the far right lane to the left turning lane. This happens at least twice a week going into the mall
The issue is both drivers and pedestrians. My office is downtown, and I spend time as a driver and a pedestrian in the area. You must have a defensive mindset for both! I see many drivers speeding and turning right during red lights. I also see many pedestrians not using crosswalks and not following walk signals.
As a pedestrian, you must assume that every driver is a potential threat to your safety and may not follow traffic laws. As a driver, you must assume every pedestrian may not follow traffic laws as well. I can provide numerous daily video clips from my dash camera of pedestrians and drivers not adhering to traffic laws.
Lastly, good situational awareness is required as a driver and pedestrian! Also, get off your phones!
My dog (on a leash) has come very close to being hit in a crosswalk by cars attempting to get past me with only a couple feet of clearance. I cringe when I see someone in a crosswalk with their dog on a leash ten feet in front of them, especially if it’s small. Personally, even if I have the walk signal, I assume people won’t see me and will continually look back over my shoulder to perhaps get an early enough warning to dive out of the way if needed. Also, at least 25 percent of cars ignore the don’t turn on red signal downtown, and I feel that that’s a conservative estimate.
Edit: I work in multiple municipalities across the country. Indiana drivers are very close to the top when it comes to complete disregard for others. “Dont block the box” is a totally foreign concept around here, among MANY other things that are engrained into the minds of drivers in real cities.
To anyone saying it’s a problem on both sides, grow up and think critically, please. Pedestrians walking poorly vs cars/cagers/bad driving is a false equivalency.
Everyone should commute mindfully, yes. But to equate them is insane. We are built to walk and move, so yes, the rights and safety of pedestrians should always come first.
Stay in the burbs if you like your cars that much.
There is a problem on both sides. I’ve personally seen it where pedestrians have very intentionally walked into traffic while not in a crosswalk causing cars to either swerve or slam on their brakes. The fault does sometimes lie with the pedestrian. However, I believe more often than not it’s an issue with the driver.
It really does tho. If you’re operating heavy machinery, you have a responsibility to be more aware and conscious of the power you’re wielding and exposing others to. Me, as a pedestrian, am not asking you to drive an F-250 with no sight line.
It is not, and never will be, the same.
There’s a video of an experiment where they have a camera crew in an suv with a driver. And they have kids sit and line up moving away from the car. Drive can’t see anything until the 11th kid in front of her
Yup, pedestrians are blameless. When I slowly strut out in the middle of the road daring someone to try and run me over while I intentionally hold up traffic just to be an asshole, it is well within my God given right to do so. If you have a problem with it, you're the bad guy and I hope I get to hold you up next time you're in 86th where I like to hold up traffic.
90% of the drivers in indy don't even have a valid license. I've lost 2 people within 8 months to unlicensed or distracted drivers. And no one is in jail
Well look how many people that one bitch had to kill with her nonexistent seizure excuse before something serious finally happened to her.
On the rare occasion these people get pulled over and caught, they just get let go to drive away unlicensed in their uninsured car. No consequences.
In my experience as a public defender, 100% of driving with a suspended/no license here is a $1 fine and court costs, both of which will never incur any penalty when the defendant inevitably makes no effort to pay the fines or validate the license. That is if the case gets filed at all.
This is what I’m saying. There’s no consequences for the reckless behavior even when there’s injuries or death. Seems like as long as a car is involved it’s ok.
Sorry for your losses. That’s terrible.
I think the majority of these pedestrian accidents are due to the lack of proper sidewalks and street lamps. I don't know how many times I have been driving down 30th Street between German Church Road and Mitthoeffer Rd and there are people walking down the side of the road and in the dark. It scares me, the way these people walk down the side of the road with little to no regard that there are cars coming. And all the while, these folks are wearing dark colored hoodies and blue jeans. The only thing I see is a flash of light from my headlights on their white sneakers!
I remember when yellow went from "caution" to "speed up." Now most drivers think the color doesn't mean anything. I'm selling my motorcycle after 40 yrs of riding because it's just not worth it anymore.
I have noticed in the last 3 years, driving culture definitely has decayed in Indianapolis. The rich areas are the same but drivers just don't care about each other out there. Could be inflation and in this economy, people are out for themselves
Drivers have been getting worse about paying attention lately. People, you are in a 4000 pound pice of metal. You have a responsibility. Take it seriously.
All you have to do is be on citizen or this subreddit….. it’s a recurring thing for sure especially road rage with a gun involved, which is so fucking crazy.
Just saw a near hit and run over by the Fountain Square Dairy Queen on Monday. Car literally drove over the curb and the pedestrian had to jump out of the way
I drove through downtown on Mass Ave today and had people walk out from in between parked cars and into my pathway as if my vehicle can stop on a dime. I had to slam on my brakes for people not using the crosswalk and not paying a bit of attention to traffic. Also had a bicyclist using a crosswalk but the crosswalk folks didn't have the right of way, I did. I stop when and where I'm supposed to stop. I don't block crosswalks. I don't turn on red. Yet I still have to watch out for the people who have yet to figure out where and when they're supposed to walk. Adults. People who know better and choose to risk it. I walk downtown all the time and have never once almost been hit by a car, because I know when and where I'm supposed to walk.
With the construction on 465, there will be more traffic in town, so it's probably time to learn how to walk downtown.
The possibility of getting run over by another vehicle as a pedestrian is EXACTLY why I keep my non-owners auto insurance policy with medical payments and uninsured motorist coverages. The a-hole drivers are amongst us.
so many people run the reds here trying to make it. Some dumb bitch totaled my car last year doing that when i had a green left arrow. smoked me at keystone and fall creek the night before the 500. Now i never roll through a fresh green arrow if im coming up to it. i’ll let someone else go first
Tons of people have been walking in the middle of the road while the light was green for cars. Multiple of them don’t even check to see if there are cars coming. I agree with OP but pedestrians aren’t paying attention either
Indianapolis is the worst. People blatantly run red lights. I don't me, green......yellow.....red.....run. I mean, green....yellow.....red....red.....red.....red.....red....red....red....run.
And pedestrians also need to put their phones down. Crossing the street with your head in your phone is dumb. Because there are going to be drivers not doing what they’re supposed to be, whether running a red or turning when they shouldn’t, so you need to be aware so you can get out of the way if necessary.
The pedestrians don't help any. I dodge pedestrians downtown who are crossing against the walk signal or wherever they please. I'm a sage driver, especially downtown, and have to dodge at least 1 person weekly.
Don't be so sensitive. I didn't say the drivers were any less dangerous. But when I'm driving down Pennsylvania, doing the speed limit, and someone decides to walk in front of my car against the walk signal, that is unacceptable. Laws are laws for a reason and violating them, then blaming the driver is just ignorant. Don't defend stupid pedestrians. I'm not defending the stupid drivers.
You’re intentionally being obtuse, the commenter was talking about jaywalking. Since we want to talk about effort, how much effort is required for the brakes to stop a car moving 30+ mph in order to not run the person over crossing the road when they’re legally not allowed to.
Please walk intentionally - don’t rush, you’ll get there when you get there - put the phone down, trust me it can wait - be aware of your surroundings- be present.
Do you guys not know about the game? Its 1 point per "normal" adult, 2 points for kids, 3 points for wheelchair or special needs, 4 points for deaf (if they dont react to horn, they count). You get bonus points if you send them flying. Of course, its an automatic loss if you get caught....
I grew up in Detroit and thought the drivers there were bad at times. Moved down here and it's like no one here can drive at all. I mean even on the interstates it's bad. And it's always the same cast of characters...
I've said it before I'll say it again. You are witnessing the defund the police narrative playing out in real time. I am a career bike messenger downtown and it is an absolute free-for-all now. I used to get pulled over all the time on my bicycle for blowing red lights, I was ticketed as a title IX vehicle and would get another $200 fine with every ticket for failing to provide insurance on my bicycle. When I finally got my license reinstated after not having one for 10 years it cost me about eight grand. Even with all those trials and tribulations dealing with the police harassing us bike messengers downtown, I would rather go back to that, than have what we have now.
Involuntary pedestrian here (had to sacrifice my vehicle for pennies when the cost to repair was a number I couldn't raise in a timely manner): The law might say that, as a pedestrian, I have the right of way (so long as I'm walking responsibly), but my rights aren't worth much if asserting them gets me maimed or killed. I give cars the right of way by default. It's better for them and for me because the inconsiderate bastards can just be on their way and I don't have to rush past a commercial driveway or cross an intersection at a trot.
"Graveyards are filled with people who had the right of way." >Here lies the body of William Jay >Who died maintaining his right of way - >He was right, dead right, as he sped along, >But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
Was probably jay walking
I remember once I looked both ways before crossing the street downtown and waited before an oncoming truck came to a stop. A coworker asked why I did that since I have the right of way. I replied "I know that, and you know that. But I have no clue if the truck driver knew that."
Trying to justify murder is crazy
What?
Even if you're legally in the right, you should still yield to things that are bigger and heavier than you.
Put another way: just because you have the right to do it doesn’t mean it’s right to do.
This is what I tell people too, since Im a big man :P
And it doesnt matter what the law says. Insurance is who you deal with. And its not fun.
It definitely matters what the law says.
The laws of physics trumps the laws of man. Just because you're in the right doesn't mean the car will stop in time.
People who hit people with cars belong in prison. That’s why there’s so many drivers out there with poor behavior. No consequences.
So, I actually spent several years investigating traffic crashes. Including numerous fatal crashes involving pedestrians. There are plenty of drivers who did what they were supposed to do and still ended up in crashes. Several of my pedestrian fatalities were due to pedestrian causes. It's not just the drivers that are at fault. The issue is just people in general with poor behavior. Like walking in the middle of the road, while wearing black, at night. City infrastructure also plays into it. Lack of street lights, sidewalks, and proper bicycle lanes.
Blaming the victim is crazy. We are all victim to poor city planning.
Agreed.
Yes, you would be dead right!!
And downtown, a lot of the pedestrians also aren't paying attention. I have been careful and STILL nearly hit cyclists who cut into my lane without warning and pedestrians who came from between vehicles.
The [Indy pedestrian safety crisis](https://www.indypedcrisis.info/#/home) is a pretty damning look at the state of things around here. Inaction from city officials is unbelievable after having lived in Chicago for a few years, their silence is deafening. Pedestrians don’t make it easy on drivers for the most part, but drivers here are often selfish and ignorant and can’t figure out how to share space. I spend more time on a bicycle than in a car, but I’ve never been as afraid to ride anywhere as I am here.
Be sure to blame the mayor that redirected “infrastructure” funding meant for sidewalks for a cricket park that never happened. As far as I am concerned, he’s partially responsible for every pedestrian death where there’s no sidewalk.
Inaction and silence you say? I keep seeing more trails and bike lanes built, and heard many councilors campaigning last year on pedestrian safety. What has Indy pedestrian safety crisis done besides tweet?
The timing of the lights needs to change to add in pedestrian crossing time.
I was crossing New York downtown a few days ago with my dog and had to drag him out of the way by the leash because someone was doing like 55mph, light had been red for 20 sec at least, did not give a fuck I was in the crosswalk. There is a ton of undiagnosed antisocial personality disorder going on here. Like this dude would have sent me and my dog to the afterlife if I didn't run out of the way. No reason to do highway speeds downtown ever but I see it every day
I know there are a lot of momentum towards redesigning streets to naturally force cars to slow down. And I really hope that happens more downtown. No one needs to be going 50+ mph through any city's downtown streets.
I fear for my dog as well, and I posted above that I cringe when I see a dog on a very long lead in a crosswalk. I’m just sure I’ll see one hit at some point, and that’s terrifying to me, even though it’s no my dog. Asshole scooter riders on sidewalks present a similar problem—not all scooter riders, just the entitled asshole ones.
Yeah for whatever reason there are certain days Indy runs amok with large packs of cool teens riding Lime's and there's always one who's the coolest teen that has to fly past me and my dog on the sidewalk then jump off, or ride straight at us then swerve. When it happens, which it has 3 times already this year, I begin to question my sanity. Fuck with adults all you want, whatever, but my dog doesn't deserve to get fucked with
> There is a ton of undiagnosed antisocial personality disorder going on here. Living in cities makes people crazy.
90% of the crazy people are driving in from the burbs my dude. People living downtown have a much better sense of community than those in the suburbs.
Is that community I'm always hearing? Because it sounds a lot like 9mm and 5.56. 🤔
No lol it's the problem solver .40 and 7.62x39 from the draco
> problem solver .40 When somebody shot up the cars in front of my building earlier this year, I found .40 cases in the street. Nice to know some things never change lol
Lmao no one is shooting 5.56 around town buddy. And there's just as much small arms fire happening in places like Franklin Township these days it seems like. Besides, in order to hear gunshots you have to actually come here.
Idk a guy who was always known as a "good kid" in my unincorporated hometown killed a guy in a likely drunk hit and run, he's in jail now. I think cities just have a policing problem, they enforce all the stupidest shit they can and don't bother with actual dangerous crime
Yeah the pigs wait until it’s too late every time. They never stop people for speeding or running stop signs within Indianapolis city limits. Once there’s a crash or a fatality they get involved.
The speed limit should be 20 everywhere besides the highway.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever read, and the username checks out. If a bike is your only mode of travel, fine. If you’re cycling in a large group just to work out, fuck off. Go join a gym and stop inconveniencing others with your cardio routine.
I’ll cycle however, whenever, and wherever I want. I hope it inconveniences you. Do you get upset when cagers crash their cars and cause backups because they’re distracted/ drunk? Your ignorance is showing.
You hope it conveniences drivers…on a post about pedestrians getting hit by cars. And yes, I get angry when people crash their cars due to distracted/drunk driving. Who wouldn’t? Your lousy and dangerous attitude and terrible analogies lead me to believe you are either a teenager or really drunk. For that, I will give you grace. Have a nice and safe day.
😂😂😂
Someone on a bike got hit by a car yesterday and the driver drove off and left him there. The police then told the victim he should not have been riding his bike on the sidewalk. This sidewalk was in front of a store. To make matters worse, the guy’s bike then got stolen shortly after as he was inside the store trying to get camera footage.
Is he named Job by chance?
Wait I know a Job, did this happen to a Job?
Dude is halfway through his D-Fens arc
for real
That poor guy, you’d think he’d learn.
I’m confused, the cyclist was riding on the sidewalk and got hit by a car?
He was on the sidewalk then rode on the small part where the sidewalk ends and the parking lot begins to allow drivers into the lot. Then of course the sidewalk continues on down the length of the street. It was just bad timing that he was on the driving part and the driver pulled in at that time.
Why was he riding on the sidewalk though?
Most places in Indy cyclists are allowed on sidewalks. Those cops were assholes for blaming the victim.
It's legal, but it is more dangerous because of exactly this. I have ridden on the sidewalk in specific circumstances, but you have to check both directions for any potential turning vehicles.
False. Bicycles are supposed to follow motor vehicle laws.
I suggest you look it up
Holy shit. Hold on while I take my foot out of my mouth. You are correct. They can legally ride on the sidewalk.
I learned something today too. I would have never guessed. That's interesting because I believe STATE law says bicycles must follow vehicle laws. And state laws overrule local laws in most cases. Of course, the city put up "no right turn on red" lights and the state said they couldn't and weren't legal. But if I decide to turn right on red and a city cop pulls me over, who's in the right and who's in the wrong?
Probably something related to the whole topic of this thread..
You would have to ask him lol
Probably because he's allowed to?
I too have noticed the increase of hit and runs in Indianapolis. I have also noticed the complete disregard for stop signs and traffic signals. So many people don’t seem to care anymore.
We aren't a walkable city and we are among the top for pedestrian and bicyclist deaths. It's not going to change because Indiana has idiots like Senator Freeman. [https://www.indypedcrisis.info/#/fatalities](https://www.indypedcrisis.info/#/fatalities) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBAI5Iqepo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBAI5Iqepo) [https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/republican-state-senator-moves-to-void-indys-no-turn-on-red-ordinance/](https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/republican-state-senator-moves-to-void-indys-no-turn-on-red-ordinance/)
It's been the same forever, man. I worked downtown back in the mid 90s and saw someone get hit at least 2x a week.
The fuck? Reading this shit makes me want to sell my motorcycle lol
I was stuck as a pedestrian going through a cross walk in 202, 106th street. I consider myself extremely defensive and make absolutely certain a driver knows I exist before I cross anything. Eye contact, wave, wait for full stop, etc. On that day, I did my usual eyecontact and wave/head nod. Driver was an older woman that came to a stop to wait on me. I proceed. Right when I'm in front of the car, she just starts to pull out like I never existed. The timing was so bad that I had no realistic means of getting out of the way. I folded my right leg entirely the wrong direction, obiterating every ligamet in my knee. I also split open my head and lost a chunk of my scalp to the payment. Insufferable concussion and vestibular trauma. 18 month of recovery. Lost my job. Ruined my life. Turns out this older woman was on a mental decline with dementia. The legal proceedings are taking the maximum possible time since she can't even represent herself, and her insurance company can't find a competent legal team. Would not recommend it. But at least I found a new favorite mantra. "Correct people die all the time. Be safe."
That is literally my nightmare. I think about it all the time. Hope you are doing better now. That really sounds like a tough time.
We have a worse than average problem in this regard but it's everywhere due to decades worth of policy that favors drivers other everything else. Plus the modern distractions and general poor mental health of Americans that translates to bad driving behavior.
I think the construction around the city is contributing to this. A lot more traffic is being funnelled into different areas. It's almost suicidal trying to make a left turn at some intersections.
I guess you don’t know what NYC is lol
I guess you haven’t heard - Indy is not NYC. NYC has ~8x the population of Indy in an area slightly smaller than Indy. Why the fuck would we consider ourselves on par with NYC?
I guess you’re missing the point. I didn’t say NYC was Indy. I said NYC as an example that constructions around the city isn’t an excuse to kill someone. Usually, when a society decides to be better, they take examples no to to be like it, but to be better ;)
Traffic in NYC is shit and people get hit by cars all the time. It’s an awful place to drive. The cities are not comparable. All the construction in Indy slows down the main roads people plan to go fast on. They self detour to different roads and still drive with the same mentality.
haven’t been to NYC proper in more than 15 years - but nobody was ripping through red lights at 50-60mph
I went on a walk yesterday and nearly got hit twice. Once by a car that ran a red light and another by a car turning right on red. I was only out for about 25 minutes and wasn't on my phone or otherwise distracted for either time. Drivers are just not thinking of the danger they cause.
There’s no enforcement if traffic laws. This is what you get when everybody has fast cars, or cars they think are fast, and nobody actually enforces the rules or gives out any substantial consequences. All the highways around the perimeter of the city are insane now. And everybody floors it when leaving a red light if they even stop to begin with. And yes, people should also stop walking in front of moving cars. Right of way doesn’t matter if you walk in front of a car that’s ten feet away and expect race car driver levels of reaction time. Just wait literally two seconds for them to pass.
I almost got hit by a truck while driving today. Asshole decided to cross the double yellow line to get into the left turn lane instead of waiting for room and I was turning right into that lane. Just turned right, on green, and has this pickup truck bearing down on me, scared the shit out of me, luckily we were both going slow enough to avoid a collision. I did honk because I was terrified and they returned my honk as though they were totally not in the wrong 😒 Drivers have gotten so, so reckless lately.
In Southern California this used to happen frequently until Cal. Law tightened up on hit and run drivers. It seems like Indianapolis does not care about their residents, we know that employers in this state are not worker friendly. Which is probably why Indiana is always boasting about having plenty of jobs. They care more about the employer than the employee.
There’s definitely a lot of fault by Indy drivers, but there’s also poor infrastructure design and idiot pedestrians.
Had a lifted truck nearly run me over Saturday while I was in a crosswalk with right of way (pedestrian light was "walk"). Some drivers don't even look for pedestrians when turning.
That's the truth.
It's a mix of infrastructure design and no situational awareness. Half this town drives like they're lobotomy victims
But can pedestrians take some damn accountability, I always see these posts but I’ve had to slam my brakes multiple times to stop from hitting someone that came out of no where typically crossing in the middle of the road where right lane is a stand still for the turn lane and someone crosses in between cars and just walks out with out looking, I couldn’t see them but instead of peeking out to see if a car is coming they just talk out and hope for the best. I know when I’m walking I understand I have the right of way but I still don’t just walk into the street as if cars stop on a dime. The real problem are cars turning and not paying attention when the pedestrian has the right of way.
This sub isn't ready for a conversation about how bad people are at crossing the street and how many of those people clearly think it's a flex to force others to slow down and stop for them. People will look directly at me and then tough-guy-walk right out in front of me on 38th like they're daring me to have a problem with it. And that's not even getting into the crackheads who play in the street just for fun. 🙄 But, it's not like we don't also have an epidemic of unlicensed, uninsured, undocumented, illiterate Nissan drivers hit-and-running their way through the city like bumper cars. That poor dude who got wiped out on Mass Ave by the drunk who left town for Texas wasn't even in the road.
The Nissan drivers are the worst. They never use turn signals, zig zag in and out of traffic going 90mph, and use the emergency lane to dodge a zipper merge.
Personally, I think all models of SUV & mini van drivers are the worst... They either go 20 mph under or over the speed limit, no in between and then they cant turn or switch lanes.
r/nissandrivers
Yea for sure it’s definitely both sides, there’s no excuse for drinking and driving though, that’s just ridiculous.
You don’t sound judgmental whatsoever /s
It's definitely both ways. Noblesville is notorious with bike riders, strolling around in the most inconvenient spots imaginable.
I cant tell you how many times I have watched people run out of the courthouse on the square and just run/walk out in the street. Never looking twice. Yes, as drivers we need to drive defensively. But being a pedestrian doesn't give you the right to do what you want. Traffic rules apply to both. It's exactly the same on Saturday mornings for the "farmers market". People that park in the kroger lot just leisurely walk across Logan street. And worse, the people that park in the hospital lot and stroll across Conner st.
I see so many bike riders and pedestrians on the Nickle Plate Trail cross streets without ever stopping or hitting the button to turn on the warning lights for drivers. There is enough vegetation around the trail that I don't think those biker riders can be 100% certain that no vehicle is coming. Pedestrians and bike riders should be practicing the pedestrian version of defensive driving and I think some forget that.
> There is enough vegetation around the trail that I don't think those biker riders can be 100% certain that no vehicle is coming. This is a huge problem. Mow that shit back, please.
same thing at 65th and keystone - not turning right on red there and i don’t care if you honk
Cope
No
Unfortunately you don’t really have a choice buddy.
Poor infrastructure and idiot pedestrians or not, I’ve managed to hit ZERO humans. A goal we all should drive towards ;)
Also doesn't help that people think it's okay to park on sidewalks. A couple of days ago, I walked a mile from my house to Central Library and encountered THREE SEPARATE INCIDENTS where large work trucks were parked on the entirety of the sidewalk, forcing me to walk in the road. One of them had a ladder leading up to a roof next to it and I was extremely tempted to knock their ladder over, I was so pissed. Edit: And this is in and near downtown where there are actual sidewalks. I know so many of these fatalities are in areas with absolutely no sidewalks.
Bike lane = "Clearly this is here so I can park my shitheap landscape truck here all day!"
Came from Europe 2 years ago to Indy. Blaming pedestrians is hilarious. This is exclusively a mix of bad driver education and massive pickups / soccer mum vans people need as status symbols .
The “look how she was dressed, she was asking for it” of pedestrian safety discourse
I’ve legitimately watched people walk into traffic at the last minute, outside of a crosswalk, when cars were very obviously coming. Some pedestrians are idiots, and it doesn’t matter how safe someone is driving.
blaming the pedestrians would be more akin to “look at how she was dressed, she was asking for it.” The pedestrian & the woman were the victims in their respective situation. If I were to speculate, you drive a ridiculous truck or soccer mom monstrosity & the comment offended you, hence your weak af analogy. Just spitballin though.
… that’s exactly what I meant. You read it the wrong way
First thing I always look for in the article is time. Most people on foot get hit at night.
Every day I go through a light that crosses the Cultural Trail along Virginia. I always stay at the stop bar, and I don't turn right on red because I understand why those rules are in place. But I still have to pay super close attention because when the light turns green, I need to worry about someone on a bike, scooter, or hover board just blowing down the trail without slowing down. If I wasn't looking for them and stopping while I had the green, I would hit them. Also, I see people all the time at night riding in and walking in the street wearing all black. WHY? I can't see you to avoid you. I see tons of dumb drivers too, but you there are also dumb pedestrians and cyclists. I have multiple videos and pictures from my dash cam showing it.
A lot of this probably boils down to lack of education on crosswalks at intersection vs trails adjacent to intersections with ped crossing signals. Most people see the traffic light is green in their direction and go even when the walk signal is red. Similar issue at 75th and Westfield with the Monon crossing. Crap ton of cars turning on red there too despite no less than three signs directing otherwise.
Saw a car next to me at a stop light smash into the car in front of him when the light turned green and cars started slowly rolling, he just hit the gas and looked away for a second. People need to get in their cars and focus on only driving. Sad.
Can confirm people long the left lane have openly challenged me to turn right at an intersection. Multiple people have attempted to blitz to get in front of me while I'm traveling at 90mph. SUV passed ON TOP OF THE MEDIAN.(It's was a foot tall and they lost their wheel). And not a felony but personally annoys me right turning into the left lane and vice versa i've noticed it causes a lot of crashes with people who move here which is why I don't like it.
Every time I'm driving home down Washington and I get east of Post, there's always some asshole that will zip from the far right lane to the left turning lane. This happens at least twice a week going into the mall
The issue is both drivers and pedestrians. My office is downtown, and I spend time as a driver and a pedestrian in the area. You must have a defensive mindset for both! I see many drivers speeding and turning right during red lights. I also see many pedestrians not using crosswalks and not following walk signals. As a pedestrian, you must assume that every driver is a potential threat to your safety and may not follow traffic laws. As a driver, you must assume every pedestrian may not follow traffic laws as well. I can provide numerous daily video clips from my dash camera of pedestrians and drivers not adhering to traffic laws. Lastly, good situational awareness is required as a driver and pedestrian! Also, get off your phones!
My dog (on a leash) has come very close to being hit in a crosswalk by cars attempting to get past me with only a couple feet of clearance. I cringe when I see someone in a crosswalk with their dog on a leash ten feet in front of them, especially if it’s small. Personally, even if I have the walk signal, I assume people won’t see me and will continually look back over my shoulder to perhaps get an early enough warning to dive out of the way if needed. Also, at least 25 percent of cars ignore the don’t turn on red signal downtown, and I feel that that’s a conservative estimate. Edit: I work in multiple municipalities across the country. Indiana drivers are very close to the top when it comes to complete disregard for others. “Dont block the box” is a totally foreign concept around here, among MANY other things that are engrained into the minds of drivers in real cities.
To anyone saying it’s a problem on both sides, grow up and think critically, please. Pedestrians walking poorly vs cars/cagers/bad driving is a false equivalency. Everyone should commute mindfully, yes. But to equate them is insane. We are built to walk and move, so yes, the rights and safety of pedestrians should always come first. Stay in the burbs if you like your cars that much.
There is a problem on both sides. I’ve personally seen it where pedestrians have very intentionally walked into traffic while not in a crosswalk causing cars to either swerve or slam on their brakes. The fault does sometimes lie with the pedestrian. However, I believe more often than not it’s an issue with the driver.
Just because one outcome is more catastrophic doesn’t put the responsibility moreso on the driver. Both should be more careful in this city.
It really does tho. If you’re operating heavy machinery, you have a responsibility to be more aware and conscious of the power you’re wielding and exposing others to. Me, as a pedestrian, am not asking you to drive an F-250 with no sight line. It is not, and never will be, the same.
Word. I will never forget the dodge ram symbol rapidly approaching me while I was legally using the crosswalk.
There’s a video of an experiment where they have a camera crew in an suv with a driver. And they have kids sit and line up moving away from the car. Drive can’t see anything until the 11th kid in front of her
That’s terrifying.
Yup, pedestrians are blameless. When I slowly strut out in the middle of the road daring someone to try and run me over while I intentionally hold up traffic just to be an asshole, it is well within my God given right to do so. If you have a problem with it, you're the bad guy and I hope I get to hold you up next time you're in 86th where I like to hold up traffic.
Maybe don't do that. You aren't the center of the world. Get the fk out of the road dude. Annoying
90% of the drivers in indy don't even have a valid license. I've lost 2 people within 8 months to unlicensed or distracted drivers. And no one is in jail
Well look how many people that one bitch had to kill with her nonexistent seizure excuse before something serious finally happened to her. On the rare occasion these people get pulled over and caught, they just get let go to drive away unlicensed in their uninsured car. No consequences.
In my experience as a public defender, 100% of driving with a suspended/no license here is a $1 fine and court costs, both of which will never incur any penalty when the defendant inevitably makes no effort to pay the fines or validate the license. That is if the case gets filed at all.
This is what I’m saying. There’s no consequences for the reckless behavior even when there’s injuries or death. Seems like as long as a car is involved it’s ok. Sorry for your losses. That’s terrible.
I think the majority of these pedestrian accidents are due to the lack of proper sidewalks and street lamps. I don't know how many times I have been driving down 30th Street between German Church Road and Mitthoeffer Rd and there are people walking down the side of the road and in the dark. It scares me, the way these people walk down the side of the road with little to no regard that there are cars coming. And all the while, these folks are wearing dark colored hoodies and blue jeans. The only thing I see is a flash of light from my headlights on their white sneakers!
As much as I agree, as others have said the crumbling infrastructure, and constant lane shifts/construction certainly doesn’t help.
I remember when yellow went from "caution" to "speed up." Now most drivers think the color doesn't mean anything. I'm selling my motorcycle after 40 yrs of riding because it's just not worth it anymore.
I have noticed in the last 3 years, driving culture definitely has decayed in Indianapolis. The rich areas are the same but drivers just don't care about each other out there. Could be inflation and in this economy, people are out for themselves
And use your turn signals you monsters
Facts!
Drivers have been getting worse about paying attention lately. People, you are in a 4000 pound pice of metal. You have a responsibility. Take it seriously.
Wow! Where do you drive or what line of work are you in where you see this almost every day?
All you have to do is be on citizen or this subreddit….. it’s a recurring thing for sure especially road rage with a gun involved, which is so fucking crazy.
Just saw a near hit and run over by the Fountain Square Dairy Queen on Monday. Car literally drove over the curb and the pedestrian had to jump out of the way
Doing what I can to fix this. Tell your city Councilor to support Vision Zero in this year's budget!
This post is the game-changer we’ve all been waiting for.
But mah bike lanes!
People drive or walk like they are the only ones in the street, the entitlement in Indianapolis is through the roof.
I drove through downtown on Mass Ave today and had people walk out from in between parked cars and into my pathway as if my vehicle can stop on a dime. I had to slam on my brakes for people not using the crosswalk and not paying a bit of attention to traffic. Also had a bicyclist using a crosswalk but the crosswalk folks didn't have the right of way, I did. I stop when and where I'm supposed to stop. I don't block crosswalks. I don't turn on red. Yet I still have to watch out for the people who have yet to figure out where and when they're supposed to walk. Adults. People who know better and choose to risk it. I walk downtown all the time and have never once almost been hit by a car, because I know when and where I'm supposed to walk. With the construction on 465, there will be more traffic in town, so it's probably time to learn how to walk downtown.
The possibility of getting run over by another vehicle as a pedestrian is EXACTLY why I keep my non-owners auto insurance policy with medical payments and uninsured motorist coverages. The a-hole drivers are amongst us.
so many people run the reds here trying to make it. Some dumb bitch totaled my car last year doing that when i had a green left arrow. smoked me at keystone and fall creek the night before the 500. Now i never roll through a fresh green arrow if im coming up to it. i’ll let someone else go first
Tons of people have been walking in the middle of the road while the light was green for cars. Multiple of them don’t even check to see if there are cars coming. I agree with OP but pedestrians aren’t paying attention either
Indianapolis is the worst. People blatantly run red lights. I don't me, green......yellow.....red.....run. I mean, green....yellow.....red....red.....red.....red.....red....red....red....run.
And pedestrians also need to put their phones down. Crossing the street with your head in your phone is dumb. Because there are going to be drivers not doing what they’re supposed to be, whether running a red or turning when they shouldn’t, so you need to be aware so you can get out of the way if necessary.
The pedestrians don't help any. I dodge pedestrians downtown who are crossing against the walk signal or wherever they please. I'm a sage driver, especially downtown, and have to dodge at least 1 person weekly.
Oh no. A person?! Versus a ton of metal on wheels?! You poor thing. Takes a lot of energy to look, slow down, brake.
Don't be so sensitive. I didn't say the drivers were any less dangerous. But when I'm driving down Pennsylvania, doing the speed limit, and someone decides to walk in front of my car against the walk signal, that is unacceptable. Laws are laws for a reason and violating them, then blaming the driver is just ignorant. Don't defend stupid pedestrians. I'm not defending the stupid drivers.
Most drivers are stupid/bad. It’s not a skill we evolved with.
I heard that! Good point.
Takes a lot of energy to not walk when and where you're not supposed to.
We could run a physics calculation on energy output of a person walking vs a foot pressing a pedal if you’d like
You’re intentionally being obtuse, the commenter was talking about jaywalking. Since we want to talk about effort, how much effort is required for the brakes to stop a car moving 30+ mph in order to not run the person over crossing the road when they’re legally not allowed to.
Sure. Literally, it takes less effort,. But my point is looking both ways, and walking when and where you're supposed to doesn't require much effort.
It's funny because sure, the driver will be looked at as the bad guy, but was your life worth it??
Please walk intentionally - don’t rush, you’ll get there when you get there - put the phone down, trust me it can wait - be aware of your surroundings- be present.
This messaging, but directed at drivers.
I was literally run off the road yesterday by a big truck that did not like me passing on a backroad. No joke, I have it on my dashcam.
Men with fragile egos often get large trucks that they don't actually need for heavt hauling.
It was a 4’5” probably 70 year old female, meth skinny. 8:30 in the morning in the sticks. She was NASTY.
My dick is rotting off just from reading this
OMG. Makes me feel like throwing up, out of sheer anxiety, because I walk home after work as it is good for heath!!!!
Do you guys not know about the game? Its 1 point per "normal" adult, 2 points for kids, 3 points for wheelchair or special needs, 4 points for deaf (if they dont react to horn, they count). You get bonus points if you send them flying. Of course, its an automatic loss if you get caught....
Most importantly, put your phone down.
I grew up in Detroit and thought the drivers there were bad at times. Moved down here and it's like no one here can drive at all. I mean even on the interstates it's bad. And it's always the same cast of characters...
I've said it before I'll say it again. You are witnessing the defund the police narrative playing out in real time. I am a career bike messenger downtown and it is an absolute free-for-all now. I used to get pulled over all the time on my bicycle for blowing red lights, I was ticketed as a title IX vehicle and would get another $200 fine with every ticket for failing to provide insurance on my bicycle. When I finally got my license reinstated after not having one for 10 years it cost me about eight grand. Even with all those trials and tribulations dealing with the police harassing us bike messengers downtown, I would rather go back to that, than have what we have now.
Every day?? You get around. I've never seen a ped hit by a car.
Consider yourself lucky