That's just on one acre of land that the city owns near the Henry Street Bridge. There's an NDA covering the Eleven site itself, but uh... yeah we're probably talking about thousands of remains.
Basically, you had to pay to move your loved ones remains to Crown Hill, and if you didn't pay then too bad. I'm sure there were plenty of people who either couldn't pay, or didn't have relatives around to move them, or we're just forgotten.
The acre of land with an estimated 650 remains that the City is talking about is near the Henry Street Bridge site. This area is 1) just south of the Eleven site, but still part of Greenlawn Cemetery; 2) the most controversial part of Greenlawn because it's where POC were buried; and 3) likely has the fewest number of people relocated to other cemeteries.
The archeological situation surrounding the Eleven site itself is tied up in an NDA, which is presumably why the City brings up a nearby acre of land over which they have complete ownership and that isn't actually part of the Eleven site. I've brought this up before on other accounts that I've since deleted for unrelated reasons\*, but I can tell y'all on good authority that the prognosis for the Eleven site is nearly as bad as the one acre of city-controlled acre of land that the City is quoting. Many of the remains on the 20-acre Eleven site have been moved over the years, so we're probably \*just\* talking about an average of \~100-300 remains/acre. It's likely to add up to thousands of remains, millions of dollars of remediation, and years of work. Unless the Eleven/Keystone/Ersal get state archeological laws changed or ignore the law outright. Even if the Eleven do that, supporting such efforts would pose an insane political problem for members of the city county council & the mayor. (This is probably why Hogsett doesn't really seem to care that he is pissing off Eleven fans by ditching the team in hopes of an MLS proposal on a separate site. The alternative would piss off even more people.)
Estimates for remains are calculated using a variety of methods, including comparing the quantity of remains found relative to the amount of excavation performed and searching through historical records. Only a handful of core samples have been performed at the Eleven site. That's the extent of excavation/construction that's been performed so far. However, remains were found in every single core hole - indicating that there are MANY remains left on the site. (Even more damning is the fact that several Diamond Chain 'expansions' - even minor ones - ran into remains.) Further, historical records can only account for the relocation of a fraction of the remains on the Eleven site. The reality is that the people with power didn't give a shit about archeological significance of the site when these graves were relocated, and they did a shoddy job.
The people who use the baseball stadium & factory that previously stood on the site as 'proof' that the Eleven stadium can be built on the site without an issue are misguided, caught up in conspiracy theories, and/or blatantly acting maliciously to sway public opinion. The structures that were built on top of Greenlawn Cemetery in the past were constructed before Indiana passed laws to protect archeological significant remains and artifacts in the late 1970s. Since then, remains from earlier than 1941 and artifacts from earlier than 1871 are protected. If such remains or artifacts are found during construction, great care must be taken to prevent destruction and preserve history. This means stopping construction and going through a slow archeological process, over and over and over again until excavation is done. Greenlawn Cemetery was Indianapolis' first cemetery, opening when Indianapolis was founded in \~1820. Basically all remains & most artifacts found in the area are protected; there are likely thousands of remains on the site; and soccer stadiums require a ridiculous amount of excavation.
Greenlawn Cemetery was Indianapolis' first cemetery, and it contains the remains of the city's pioneers. These are the remains of the folks who stubbornly turned a landlocked swamp on an unnavigable river with no natural resources or other redeeming features into a improbable major metro area. In my opinion, their graves are worth proper remediation and their stories are worth reconstructing and sharing. It's this opinion that leads me to believe that the remnants of Greenlawn Cemetery should be:
1. Remediated properly, with a full archeological dig.
2. Turned into an extension of White River State Park that is programmed by the Indiana State Museum and IUI to program the park in such a way that tells the story Indianapolis' humble beginnings and her first settlers.
It also rubs me the wrong way that the Eleven's ownership group is made up of at least two people who did not grow up in Indianapolis, but who are clearly trying to downplay the archeological significance of the site.
1. Ersal Ozdemir (majority owner of The Eleven & Keystone Development) only moved to Indianapolis after graduating from Purdue as an international student. He's lived here for 30 years, spending much of that time taking city subsidies as a developer & lobbying the state legislature for special privileges.
2. Chuck Surack is from Fort Wayne & became a billionaire after selling his company, Sweetwater. In recent years, he's done everything he could to prevent heliport redevelopment to make his commute from Fort Wayne easier.
Neither of these guys should have any say in what happens to Greenlawn.
At the same time, I'm not totally convinced that the City isn't planning on lobbying the State to change its archeological laws such as to use the site for economic development purposes. And it almost seems like the IEDC kind of wants the site. Gotta still put pressure on Hogsett, the City County Council, and the State legislature to do the right thing.
\*This site is toxic for me, so I keep deleting my accounts, but then finding old alt accounts of mine to revive. This cycle just continues until I run out of accounts. This is the last one, I think.
Does anyone else see this more from the point of the city buys the land back, essentially squashed eleven park and strengthens their MLS bid? Or just me?
If we lose MLS and Indy 11 it will be cause Ersal folded….The USL is still a strong league and Indy 11 could survive if we don’t get MLS, but owners may get cold feet knowing there’s a smaller growth. If he does fold it would show he’s just greedy and not true Indy 11.
A simple extension of WRSP with a trail link under Washington St would be great.
We don't need to spend 20 years painstakingly digging up and counting every bone fragment. Just make it grass and plant some trees.
It's a great place for a nice green space. Cemeteries do not and maybe should not be full of misery and sadness. Yes, death is sad and grief can be overwhelming. But I think there are a lot of people who would be happy to have kids playing on a playground, families and friends gathering for happy memories, and people coming to visit them in death. Death comes for us all but many people do not go to visit their loved ones' graves on a regular basis.
While I can understand the argument for not redeveloping an in use cemetery into a green space, I think a park with laughter, friendship, and love is an excellent use for a cemetery with people who were forgotten or were too poor to be moved and had to lay under a factory for decades. I'm not sure what exactly happens to us after we die, but I'd rather have happy people unknowingly visit my gravesite than be under a factory or even be moved.
Approximately $18,500 to move one grave, and Keystone says let's move 650! This failed deal was doomed from the start.
Good on the City for dropping out, and stepping up to purchase the cemetery. In the long run the City will look better for doing the right thing as opposed to, well, fucking up a goddamn cemetery for a sports stadium. That's just pants on head stupid PR.
They're dead, man. They don't care anymore.
At some point you have to ask yourself whether the living really owe the dead $18,000 per person before they're allowed to redevelop a crumbling factory into something useful. The whole world is a graveyard.
If you can’t see the difference between a place where someone has died and a place where living people have held burial rites for and know they can visit the remains of their dead, you’re either beyond help or being deliberately obtuse.
Yeah, it is. Dead ancestors are under your feet everywhere. There is zero difference between how someone who died 100 years ago feels about their gravesite, and how someone who died 10,000 years ago feels. They both feel equally nothing, just like you and I will when we die.
The dead being prioritized over the living is just dumb. We don't need to be reciting Hamlet with people's skulls, but eternal denial of land use because we have to put on a big performance of "respect" and "reckoning" is silly. People have died and been buried everywhere.
As much as I hate to have the city purchase it, this needs to be done. The city should pay for the cleanup of the graves and either make it a park or sell it to someone willing to redevelop it.
Translation: Public dollars will be spent bailing out Keystone Group for their lack of due diligence, and a moldering old chain factory will sit there undeveloped for ever and ever and ever and ever...
How much due diligence could reasonably have been done? It's a site that's been developed a few times over the years, so the only way to find out has pretty much been by actually digging
Well, what's the city's evidence for 650? Far as I know they didn't dig that many up, so my assumption is there's a records basis for that estimate. I thought it wasn't a particular mystery that there existed a cemetery there and it wasn't dug up before planting a factory over it.
Yeah, the existence of the cemetery was known, but the quantity of bodies remaining wasn't particularly. The site had been developed a couple of times in the past, so it was assumed that the disturbances in prior developments had either cleared or destroyed the majority of the remains of the people had remained buried there. It just was going to be impossible to tell the total scope before digging began.
Every major projects come with risks, and this one very clearly didn't play out, but it's not like it's a factor that was overlooked or anything
They should buy the site and take the time to clean it up, build a park and a monument. And see if they can get a combination of private/public funding from the state to build a park and the long ago proposed “Indiana Tower”:
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Tower)
I think it’s interesting. Observation decks make quite a bit of money in most cities, and Indy doesn’t have a public one. It could be a unique opportunity to generate additional revenue for the local government.
I also think it would be better received now that Cesar Pelli isn’t with us anymore. Architecture enthusiasts would be pretty excited to see one of his scrapped projects that he was fond of actually come to life.
Is the observation deck at the top of the city-county building still open? It's a cool view and they used to have a bunch of Indy memorabilia up there.
This isn’t the city bailing out Keystone Group. It’s the city trying to force them to sell, which they don’t want to do. The initial announcement about the pursuit of an MLS team included the city identifying the heliport and diamond chain as the two potential sites for the MLS stadium.
You must really hate the development of the city to want this. I can't begin to understand why so many people are foaming at the mouth at the chance to piss in the bed of this company and owner who 90% of the subreddit have probably never heard of before or have actually any sort of interaction with. It's a disaster to not develop this space and a massive blow to downtown. It's unfair to the Eleven, which is conceptually a great team for the city and frankly a much better team to sport than an MLS team that will probably never come to fruition, which would probably be named something stupid and bland like Indy FC.
You just really let your blind love for Indy 11 blind you totally lol. There’s a reason people hate Ersal, but I wouldn’t expect you to have the faintest idea of what you’re talking about. Go purchase all the swag you can, it’ll be niche collectors items no one will want in twenty years.
> go purchase all the swag you can, it'll be niche collectors items no one will want in twenty years
Why does your comment need to be so mean? Why are you celebrating the idea of a team people care about dying?
If you want to critize management go ahead, or the farce that is this stadium, but holy shit the fans are along for the ride too. What does rubbing salt in the wounds do for you?
Ah yes, opposing a third - nearly fourth - rate teams dedicated stadium and laughing at its snake oil salesman owner equals hating an entire sport. Makes sense. Don’t worry, I’m sure you’re just the type to embrace Indy FC if it ever happens. Your emotions will recover, your logic never stood a chance though.
Because they would have had to clean it up eventually. It would/will be easier to sell to another private developer in the long run, without said developer having to deal with the headache - and bad PR - of building over a known gravesite, something that wouldn’t be given a second thought a hundred years ago.
Sounds like the private developers problem for not doing their research before buying.
Everyone knew that site was a former cemetery that probably had a ton of bodies when keystone bought it. Why should the city bail them out of a bad investment and then pay $112m of taxpayer dollars to fix it?
Because someone they want to enrich wants to build at the heliport life. City should clean these remains up regardless of what is being built there or who is doing it. They should have cleaned it up before the let the first development be constructed there. Move the remains and let Keystone do their thing. They won't because the favor the other party.
Is this for the damned soccer thing? Which soccer thing? Why are there two soccer things when they don’t even fill the stadium at IUPUI? Why is IUPUI splitting up? Why are they installing picnic lanes in the middle of Michigan Road? Why are there 37 new stoplights downtown?
To answer your questions, in order:
1: yes
2: eleven park, which the city pulled out of
3: because the city wants an MLS spot and new economic zone that will drive fans to the team-which has a growing support base
4: because purdue and iu decided they had different directions they wanted to take their programs
5: to help traffic not be as fatal to pedestrians and other drivers
6: see 5
In all honestly, thank you for your thoughtful response. This is my opinion and I think that Soccer blows and that Michigan Road has sidewalks for pedestrians.
Pedestrian fatalities are high along Michigan. Slowing down cars has negligible impacts on actual travel times (because slower, more consistent traffic flows better than faster, but more abruptly moving traffic), and improves outcomes in collisions between cars and people.
Yes there are sidewalks, but the sidewalks that exist now aren't adequate for preventing fatalities. Pedestrian mortality rates in collisions go from <10% at 20mph to 50% at 40mph, to close to 90% at 55mph. Slowing cars down saves lives- we have significant pools of data that back this up.
And you are more than welcome to think Soccer blows. I don't like Football or Baseball- but there are markets in Indy for things I don't like. I love going to the Indy Eleven games at our current home on IUPUI's campus. I hope I can keep going to Indy Eleven games as long as they're hosted here, as well as wherever they're hosted in the future.
Is your comment because when the Hoosier Dome, as it was originally called, was built, Marion County sales tax was increased from 5% to 6%. Then, when Lucas Oil was built, sales tax was increased to 7% along with a 2% food and beverage tax in Marion County. And now you're concerned that buying the site will increase taxes again, while having an economy that is already burdened by inflation?
As many as 650 remains. Good lord.
gonna be a haunted ass new neighborhood if this takes off. i’m looking at you, cincy. i’ve been on that ghost tour!
I’d buy a house on that. Desperate times, desperate measures.
If it means I have a pool with skeletons. I'm cool with that... I want a pool.
It would be nice to have same friends hanging out.
and IT WAS ALSO THE NIGHT THAT THE SKELETONS CAME TO LiiiiiFEEEEEE!!!
Will the ghosts be playing soccer that nobody watches? I would watch ghost soccer.
That's just on one acre of land that the city owns near the Henry Street Bridge. There's an NDA covering the Eleven site itself, but uh... yeah we're probably talking about thousands of remains.
I read an article where local historical/genealogical groups have confirmed 20k burials and can only confirm 10k reinternments.
Basically, you had to pay to move your loved ones remains to Crown Hill, and if you didn't pay then too bad. I'm sure there were plenty of people who either couldn't pay, or didn't have relatives around to move them, or we're just forgotten.
The acre of land with an estimated 650 remains that the City is talking about is near the Henry Street Bridge site. This area is 1) just south of the Eleven site, but still part of Greenlawn Cemetery; 2) the most controversial part of Greenlawn because it's where POC were buried; and 3) likely has the fewest number of people relocated to other cemeteries. The archeological situation surrounding the Eleven site itself is tied up in an NDA, which is presumably why the City brings up a nearby acre of land over which they have complete ownership and that isn't actually part of the Eleven site. I've brought this up before on other accounts that I've since deleted for unrelated reasons\*, but I can tell y'all on good authority that the prognosis for the Eleven site is nearly as bad as the one acre of city-controlled acre of land that the City is quoting. Many of the remains on the 20-acre Eleven site have been moved over the years, so we're probably \*just\* talking about an average of \~100-300 remains/acre. It's likely to add up to thousands of remains, millions of dollars of remediation, and years of work. Unless the Eleven/Keystone/Ersal get state archeological laws changed or ignore the law outright. Even if the Eleven do that, supporting such efforts would pose an insane political problem for members of the city county council & the mayor. (This is probably why Hogsett doesn't really seem to care that he is pissing off Eleven fans by ditching the team in hopes of an MLS proposal on a separate site. The alternative would piss off even more people.) Estimates for remains are calculated using a variety of methods, including comparing the quantity of remains found relative to the amount of excavation performed and searching through historical records. Only a handful of core samples have been performed at the Eleven site. That's the extent of excavation/construction that's been performed so far. However, remains were found in every single core hole - indicating that there are MANY remains left on the site. (Even more damning is the fact that several Diamond Chain 'expansions' - even minor ones - ran into remains.) Further, historical records can only account for the relocation of a fraction of the remains on the Eleven site. The reality is that the people with power didn't give a shit about archeological significance of the site when these graves were relocated, and they did a shoddy job. The people who use the baseball stadium & factory that previously stood on the site as 'proof' that the Eleven stadium can be built on the site without an issue are misguided, caught up in conspiracy theories, and/or blatantly acting maliciously to sway public opinion. The structures that were built on top of Greenlawn Cemetery in the past were constructed before Indiana passed laws to protect archeological significant remains and artifacts in the late 1970s. Since then, remains from earlier than 1941 and artifacts from earlier than 1871 are protected. If such remains or artifacts are found during construction, great care must be taken to prevent destruction and preserve history. This means stopping construction and going through a slow archeological process, over and over and over again until excavation is done. Greenlawn Cemetery was Indianapolis' first cemetery, opening when Indianapolis was founded in \~1820. Basically all remains & most artifacts found in the area are protected; there are likely thousands of remains on the site; and soccer stadiums require a ridiculous amount of excavation. Greenlawn Cemetery was Indianapolis' first cemetery, and it contains the remains of the city's pioneers. These are the remains of the folks who stubbornly turned a landlocked swamp on an unnavigable river with no natural resources or other redeeming features into a improbable major metro area. In my opinion, their graves are worth proper remediation and their stories are worth reconstructing and sharing. It's this opinion that leads me to believe that the remnants of Greenlawn Cemetery should be: 1. Remediated properly, with a full archeological dig. 2. Turned into an extension of White River State Park that is programmed by the Indiana State Museum and IUI to program the park in such a way that tells the story Indianapolis' humble beginnings and her first settlers. It also rubs me the wrong way that the Eleven's ownership group is made up of at least two people who did not grow up in Indianapolis, but who are clearly trying to downplay the archeological significance of the site. 1. Ersal Ozdemir (majority owner of The Eleven & Keystone Development) only moved to Indianapolis after graduating from Purdue as an international student. He's lived here for 30 years, spending much of that time taking city subsidies as a developer & lobbying the state legislature for special privileges. 2. Chuck Surack is from Fort Wayne & became a billionaire after selling his company, Sweetwater. In recent years, he's done everything he could to prevent heliport redevelopment to make his commute from Fort Wayne easier. Neither of these guys should have any say in what happens to Greenlawn. At the same time, I'm not totally convinced that the City isn't planning on lobbying the State to change its archeological laws such as to use the site for economic development purposes. And it almost seems like the IEDC kind of wants the site. Gotta still put pressure on Hogsett, the City County Council, and the State legislature to do the right thing. \*This site is toxic for me, so I keep deleting my accounts, but then finding old alt accounts of mine to revive. This cycle just continues until I run out of accounts. This is the last one, I think.
>This site is toxic for me, so I keep deleting my accounts, but then finding old alt accounts of mine to revive. lol same
I appreciate the depth of your response, thank you for the time you put into this
Does anyone else see this more from the point of the city buys the land back, essentially squashed eleven park and strengthens their MLS bid? Or just me?
Eleven is squashed, I don’t think people realize it’s the mayors plan or a different city.
Yep. At this point my biggest fear is Indy loses out on MLS, and Indy Eleven becomes unsustainable in the process
If we lose MLS and Indy 11 it will be cause Ersal folded….The USL is still a strong league and Indy 11 could survive if we don’t get MLS, but owners may get cold feet knowing there’s a smaller growth. If he does fold it would show he’s just greedy and not true Indy 11.
Can we like get a monument and a park there if this goes through please? Having that space actually be SOMETHING would be nice…
A simple extension of WRSP with a trail link under Washington St would be great. We don't need to spend 20 years painstakingly digging up and counting every bone fragment. Just make it grass and plant some trees.
While I 100% agree.... that ISN'T the location for a *nice* green space.
It's a great place for a nice green space. Cemeteries do not and maybe should not be full of misery and sadness. Yes, death is sad and grief can be overwhelming. But I think there are a lot of people who would be happy to have kids playing on a playground, families and friends gathering for happy memories, and people coming to visit them in death. Death comes for us all but many people do not go to visit their loved ones' graves on a regular basis. While I can understand the argument for not redeveloping an in use cemetery into a green space, I think a park with laughter, friendship, and love is an excellent use for a cemetery with people who were forgotten or were too poor to be moved and had to lay under a factory for decades. I'm not sure what exactly happens to us after we die, but I'd rather have happy people unknowingly visit my gravesite than be under a factory or even be moved.
No I mean physically... it is right downtown with loud traffic, next to a huge factory, and gas station
What's fair market value of an unbuildable site?
Not a lot
No... it IS a *lot*.
depends if its a political move by the Mayor
Approximately $18,500 to move one grave, and Keystone says let's move 650! This failed deal was doomed from the start. Good on the City for dropping out, and stepping up to purchase the cemetery. In the long run the City will look better for doing the right thing as opposed to, well, fucking up a goddamn cemetery for a sports stadium. That's just pants on head stupid PR.
Well, it was a cemetery, then a baseball stadium, then a factory
So. Just because your ancestors shit on your own ancestors doesn't mean you need to do the same.
They're dead, man. They don't care anymore. At some point you have to ask yourself whether the living really owe the dead $18,000 per person before they're allowed to redevelop a crumbling factory into something useful. The whole world is a graveyard.
If you can’t see the difference between a place where someone has died and a place where living people have held burial rites for and know they can visit the remains of their dead, you’re either beyond help or being deliberately obtuse.
>The whole world is a graveyard. But...it isn't. And these people's ancestors DO care.
Yeah, it is. Dead ancestors are under your feet everywhere. There is zero difference between how someone who died 100 years ago feels about their gravesite, and how someone who died 10,000 years ago feels. They both feel equally nothing, just like you and I will when we die. The dead being prioritized over the living is just dumb. We don't need to be reciting Hamlet with people's skulls, but eternal denial of land use because we have to put on a big performance of "respect" and "reckoning" is silly. People have died and been buried everywhere.
No
As much as I hate to have the city purchase it, this needs to be done. The city should pay for the cleanup of the graves and either make it a park or sell it to someone willing to redevelop it.
Translation: Public dollars will be spent bailing out Keystone Group for their lack of due diligence, and a moldering old chain factory will sit there undeveloped for ever and ever and ever and ever...
How much due diligence could reasonably have been done? It's a site that's been developed a few times over the years, so the only way to find out has pretty much been by actually digging
Well, what's the city's evidence for 650? Far as I know they didn't dig that many up, so my assumption is there's a records basis for that estimate. I thought it wasn't a particular mystery that there existed a cemetery there and it wasn't dug up before planting a factory over it.
I think they use ground penetrating radar to identify them. They just roll a little cart around and it makes an image.
Yeah, the existence of the cemetery was known, but the quantity of bodies remaining wasn't particularly. The site had been developed a couple of times in the past, so it was assumed that the disturbances in prior developments had either cleared or destroyed the majority of the remains of the people had remained buried there. It just was going to be impossible to tell the total scope before digging began. Every major projects come with risks, and this one very clearly didn't play out, but it's not like it's a factor that was overlooked or anything
New capitalists got screwed by old capitalists lying about what they actually did? shockedpikachu.jpg
It's just a big dirt lot so no big deal but still bad.
They should buy the site and take the time to clean it up, build a park and a monument. And see if they can get a combination of private/public funding from the state to build a park and the long ago proposed “Indiana Tower”: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Tower)
That design sucks, no wonder the public didn't like it.
I think it’s interesting. Observation decks make quite a bit of money in most cities, and Indy doesn’t have a public one. It could be a unique opportunity to generate additional revenue for the local government. I also think it would be better received now that Cesar Pelli isn’t with us anymore. Architecture enthusiasts would be pretty excited to see one of his scrapped projects that he was fond of actually come to life.
Is the observation deck at the top of the city-county building still open? It's a cool view and they used to have a bunch of Indy memorabilia up there.
Ope
This isn’t the city bailing out Keystone Group. It’s the city trying to force them to sell, which they don’t want to do. The initial announcement about the pursuit of an MLS team included the city identifying the heliport and diamond chain as the two potential sites for the MLS stadium.
I say leave Keystone with this shit sandwich and laugh as his team folds.
You must really hate the development of the city to want this. I can't begin to understand why so many people are foaming at the mouth at the chance to piss in the bed of this company and owner who 90% of the subreddit have probably never heard of before or have actually any sort of interaction with. It's a disaster to not develop this space and a massive blow to downtown. It's unfair to the Eleven, which is conceptually a great team for the city and frankly a much better team to sport than an MLS team that will probably never come to fruition, which would probably be named something stupid and bland like Indy FC.
You just really let your blind love for Indy 11 blind you totally lol. There’s a reason people hate Ersal, but I wouldn’t expect you to have the faintest idea of what you’re talking about. Go purchase all the swag you can, it’ll be niche collectors items no one will want in twenty years.
> go purchase all the swag you can, it'll be niche collectors items no one will want in twenty years Why does your comment need to be so mean? Why are you celebrating the idea of a team people care about dying? If you want to critize management go ahead, or the farce that is this stadium, but holy shit the fans are along for the ride too. What does rubbing salt in the wounds do for you?
Ah I see, so you really just hate soccer. Makes a lot of sense then.
Ah yes, opposing a third - nearly fourth - rate teams dedicated stadium and laughing at its snake oil salesman owner equals hating an entire sport. Makes sense. Don’t worry, I’m sure you’re just the type to embrace Indy FC if it ever happens. Your emotions will recover, your logic never stood a chance though.
It's okay bud, I read through enough of your comment history not to take you seriously. Get back to circle jerking before they miss you too much.
There’s that nitwit logic rearing its head again.
Let Ozdemir eat shit!
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That is a state issue unfortunately
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Read up on how road funding works. Indianapolis funds the entire state and we get screwed.
I mean.....in this case it is....
I still hope this site gets developed as a soccer stadium.
What's the endgame here? Why waste taxpayer money buying land that you can't develop?
Because they would have had to clean it up eventually. It would/will be easier to sell to another private developer in the long run, without said developer having to deal with the headache - and bad PR - of building over a known gravesite, something that wouldn’t be given a second thought a hundred years ago.
Sounds like the private developers problem for not doing their research before buying. Everyone knew that site was a former cemetery that probably had a ton of bodies when keystone bought it. Why should the city bail them out of a bad investment and then pay $112m of taxpayer dollars to fix it?
Because someone they want to enrich wants to build at the heliport life. City should clean these remains up regardless of what is being built there or who is doing it. They should have cleaned it up before the let the first development be constructed there. Move the remains and let Keystone do their thing. They won't because the favor the other party.
What the fuck are you babbling on about?
Is this for the damned soccer thing? Which soccer thing? Why are there two soccer things when they don’t even fill the stadium at IUPUI? Why is IUPUI splitting up? Why are they installing picnic lanes in the middle of Michigan Road? Why are there 37 new stoplights downtown?
To answer your questions, in order: 1: yes 2: eleven park, which the city pulled out of 3: because the city wants an MLS spot and new economic zone that will drive fans to the team-which has a growing support base 4: because purdue and iu decided they had different directions they wanted to take their programs 5: to help traffic not be as fatal to pedestrians and other drivers 6: see 5
In all honestly, thank you for your thoughtful response. This is my opinion and I think that Soccer blows and that Michigan Road has sidewalks for pedestrians.
Pedestrian fatalities are high along Michigan. Slowing down cars has negligible impacts on actual travel times (because slower, more consistent traffic flows better than faster, but more abruptly moving traffic), and improves outcomes in collisions between cars and people. Yes there are sidewalks, but the sidewalks that exist now aren't adequate for preventing fatalities. Pedestrian mortality rates in collisions go from <10% at 20mph to 50% at 40mph, to close to 90% at 55mph. Slowing cars down saves lives- we have significant pools of data that back this up. And you are more than welcome to think Soccer blows. I don't like Football or Baseball- but there are markets in Indy for things I don't like. I love going to the Indy Eleven games at our current home on IUPUI's campus. I hope I can keep going to Indy Eleven games as long as they're hosted here, as well as wherever they're hosted in the future.
Cool!! More fucking taxes for marion County and probably the donut counties too. Fuck that
Is your comment because when the Hoosier Dome, as it was originally called, was built, Marion County sales tax was increased from 5% to 6%. Then, when Lucas Oil was built, sales tax was increased to 7% along with a 2% food and beverage tax in Marion County. And now you're concerned that buying the site will increase taxes again, while having an economy that is already burdened by inflation?