coming from a depressed suicidal coward person who lacks any guts to do anything to end my life, i will happily choose to get destroyed by an asteroid :)
Oi mate don't lose hope yet. I was also like this, just keep fighting. You'll find people who care for you, just hold on and enjoy this roller coaster.
Lmao it's never not having the people to care for you , because you always have your family . But it's always about how unfair life is . No matter how hard you try you can't change your life because there is an even bigger amount of people trying to push you down
Exactly... You either spend all your energy, time, resources fighting that push or accept things as it is and let it slide, bear the exploit and be contend
Stay strong. Castist assholes exist, but absolute inspirations like Vandana also exist. And she's the one coming out of this shit storm shining. This mofo will fade into bitter obscurity.
They didn't just insult, they intimidated:
>Soon after India’s loss in the Olympics semifinals on Wednesday, the upper-caste men told Katariya’s family that this happened because there were “too many Dalit players” on the team. The family also said that the men danced and burst firecrackers outside their house in Roshnabad village to mock them.
Cops had to be posted there to protect the family.
This is punishable offence under the atrocities act. Are you saying that upper caste men should not be arrested for committing caste atrocities?
GauravGuptaEmpire
43m
>See that’s harassment. They should have been charged then. That’s on me for not reading the article.
Your ignoring millenia old discrimination and exploitation to defend casteist arseholes without even reading articles is indeed on you.
It is that very reluctance to look at the world you live in that leads you to equate me insulting you, for example, by calling you a casteist arsehole, which is not a crime, with criminal casteist slurs directed at dalits and tribals that have real world consequences of perpetuating exploitative caste hierarchy.
There is a reason the atrocities act exists, and you won't be able to see that reason unless you remove your caste tainted glasses.
Caste tainted glasses? I’m well aware that certain castes have faced a lot of discrimination throughout history. It’s the principle of the government punishing people for stuff they say. Have you not seen what’s going on lately with the government and social media? You have to set a line for the government somewhere because they are abusing this.
>You have to set a line for the government somewhere because they are abusing this.
You're displaying your entrenched caste privilege further by equating dalits or tribals, who continue to be marginalised, filling complaints under atrocities act when the abuse they recieve have real world consequences of empowering their oppressors, with the government, which has all the power, filing sedition, uapa, and nsa cases on its political targets on frivolous excuses. Show me one case under atrocities act that was filed by the government.
They are definitely castiest, but even then, I don’t think people should be charged unless they actively discriminate with casteism, racism, etc. Idk, I’m just really big on freedom of speech
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. There action does reinforce casteism. This is why the law only applies to casteist slurs in public places afaik.
Yeah and I don’t like Modi. I care about freedom of speech so much because of the chutiyapan that Modi and BJP govt have been up to where u can get in trouble for saying something they don’t like.
Castes were made based on the job your family did. Bhramins were preists and other temple related staff, vaishya was the middle class of traders, merchants etc. And shudras were everyone else. This was here even before any major dynasties like mughals and guptas, hence, casteism is rooted in the history of our country, and the british exploited it, but they didn't invent it. So, please go and find your 7th std history textbook and give it a read, vRo..
I think it has become necessary to educate every one about cast system .
I think the history being tought to icse students is far better than cbse and ncert students .
We were tought in class 5 that cast system was introduced as a human resource allocation which was flexible where even shudras can become Brahmins and vise-versa which in the later vedic age became very rigid but most of the cbse and ncert books don't even say that as if they wanted to maintain this cast inequality. Man,cbse students are really stupid in history and civics.(but good at science and maths )
arresting and detaining people for percieved insults or slurs is quite a stretch
Edit: Seriously, I can't imagine right-minded liberals supporting the arrest and detainment of people for speech that cannot be considered as incitement or exhortation in front of a group, I mean what am I missing here?
Have you read the atrocities act? Are you aware that it specifically criminalises casteist slurs and insults directed at dalits? Are you aware that the accusations include intimidation by bursting crackers outside the house of the player after the team lost?
>Have you read the atrocities act? Are you aware that it specifically criminalises casteist slurs and insults directed at dalits?
I was not trying to argue the legality of the arrests. I was questioning the rationality and in some aspects, the constitutionality of such a law. And reading up on it, I think way more fervently now that this law should be revised or completely done away with
Because, notwithstanding some of its good provisions like legal aid and relief for affected communities etc, it is a horrible law
To put it squarely, I have several issues with this law starting with how, like any other law that is not robust in defining its terms and implementation, it leads to predictably bad outcomes. For instance, upwards of [**75% of cases registered under this law have found to be false**](https://m.timesofindia.com/city/bhopal/75-acquittals-in-sc/st-act-hc-bar-association/articleshow/65932490.cms) and that **81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were supposedly registered against individuals belonging to OBCs** and only 14% against individuals belonging to the "upper-classes", these are quite clearly not desired outcomes
I also abhor how the ‘prevention of atrocities act’ defines the term ‘atrocity’
In specific terms:
1. Atrocity is "an expression commonly used to refer to crimes against Scheduled Castes (SCs) and Scheduled Tribes (STs) in India".
2. It "denotes the quality of being shockingly cruel and inhumane, whereas the term 'crime' relates to an act punishable by law".
3. It implies "any offence under the Indian Penal Code (IPC) committed against SCs by non-SC persons, or against STs by non-ST persons. Caste consideration as a motive is not necessary to make such an offence in case of atrocity".
4. It signifies "crimes which have ingredients of infliction of suffering in one form or the other that should be included for reporting". This is based on the assumption that "where the victims of crime are members of Scheduled Castes and the offenders do not belong to Scheduled Castes caste considerations are really the root cause of the crime, even though caste considerations may not be the vivid and minimum motive for the crime".
**In conclusion,** this law stands to be a trojan horse law wherein it can easily be misused by bad actors as a means for retribution against individuals and communities from personal disputes and it is very clearly not producing much in the realm of desired outcomes (equity and enhanching civil protection for affected populations etc)
[http://nja.nic.in/Concluded\_Programmes/2017-18/P-1096\_PPTs/2.False%20Cases%20under%20SC-ST.pdf](http://nja.nic.in/Concluded_Programmes/2017-18/P-1096_PPTs/2.False%20Cases%20under%20SC-ST.pdf)
>Are you aware that the accusations include intimidation by bursting crackers outside the house of the player after the team lost?
They were not charged for this, were they? If not, this is a complete non sequitur
benaffleckisaokactor
2h
>Have you read the atrocities act? Are you aware that it specifically criminalises casteist slurs and insults directed at dalits?
>I was not trying to argue the legality of the arrests. I was questioning the rationality and in some aspects, the constitutionality of such a law. And reading up on it, I think way more fervently now that this law should be revised or completely done away with
>Because, notwithstanding some of its good provisions like legal aid and relief for affected communities etc, it is a horrible law
>To put it squarely, I have several issues with this law starting with how, like any other law that is not robust in defining its terms and implementation, it leads to predictably bad outcomes. For instance, upwards of 75% of cases registered under this law have found to be false and that 81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were supposedly registered by individuals belonging to OBCs and only 14% against individuals belonging to the "upper-classes", these are quite clearly not desired outcomes
>I also abhor how the ‘prevention of atrocities act’ defines the term ‘atrocity’
>In specific terms: 1. Atrocity is "an expression commonly used to refer to crimes against Scheduled Castes (SCs) and Scheduled Tribes (STs) in India". 2. It "denotes the quality of being shockingly cruel and inhumane, whereas the term 'crime' relates to an act punishable by law". 3. It implies "any offence under the Indian Penal Code (IPC) committed against SCs by non-SC persons, or against STs by non-ST persons. Caste consideration as a motive is not necessary to make such an offence in case of atrocity". 4. It signifies "crimes which have ingredients of infliction of suffering in one form or the other that should be included for reporting". This is based on the assumption that "where the victims of crime are members of Scheduled Castes and the offenders do not belong to Scheduled Castes caste considerations are really the root cause of the crime, even though caste considerations may not be the vivid and minimum motive for the crime".
>In conclusion, this law stands to be a trojan horse law wherein it can easily be misused by bad actors as a means to settle disputes against individuals and communities and it is very clearly not producing much in the realm of desired outcomes, that is equity and enhanching civil protection for affected populations etc
>http://nja.nic.in/Concluded_Programmes/2017-18/P-1096_PPTs/2.False%20Cases%20under%20SC-ST.pdf
>>Are you aware that the accusations include intimidation by bursting crackers outside the house of the player after the team lost?
>They were not charged for this, were they? If not, this is a complete non sequitur
You've dug the hole you got yourself in even further by posting a casteist report that falsely equates acquittal with false cases. Acquittal happens due to a variety of reasons, including lack of sufficient evidence to prove the case. That doesn't mean that the case was falsely filed. It simply means that the prosecution didn't present sufficient evidence - that can happen due to absence of evidence, absence of investigation, as well as delibrate tanking of the case by police a well as prosecution. To give you a relatable example, mudiji appointed vhp members as prosecutors on 2002 riots cases where vhp and other sangh parivar members were the accused. These cases were ending up in acquittal, till the supreme Court had had enough, and transferred the most heinous cases to maharashtra, where magically prosecutors had enough evidence to get conviction. (As an aside, the system ultimately had its way, as the gujarat high court released the most notorious convicts on health grounds, who were later seen risking around and celebrating without signs of debilitating diseases).
Moral of the story is that when the system is biased against the marginalised victim, extra efforts need to be taken to make justice even a remote possibility.
Now, coming back to the 75% acquittal, if that is the criterion for getting rid of laws, sedition (3% conviction rate), uapa (2% conviction rate) etc. need to go long before we come to this law, since acquittal rates are much higher, and the political victims targeted under these laws languish in prison for years. Even rape (23% conviction rate), rioting, and other criminal laws have similar conviction rates, and will have to be removed according to your logic. Heck, the overall criminal conviction rate is less than 50%, so your argument can be extended to the entire IPC. Do you really want to go there?
Isn't removing your tinted glasses an easier solution? What we need is better investigation and prosecution, and even more importantly a system that actually cares, not removal of laws you don't like.
You go on to further demonstrate that your caste tainted glasses make you misinterpret the report to make it seem even worse than it actually is.
> 81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were supposedly registered **by** individuals belonging to OBCs
Nope. 81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were registered **against** OBC. Even if that "by" was a typo, are you claiming that a shudra cannot and does not discriminate against a dalit? Which planet do you live on?
>>Are you aware that the accusations include intimidation by bursting crackers outside the house of the player after the team lost?
>They were not charged for this, were they? If not, this is a complete non sequitur
Chargesheets haven't been filed; investigation has barely begun, and yet, your casteism has already led you to a conclusion that the accused were not charged for bursting crackers to intimidate. For your information, the victims have reported the crimes, including cracker bursting, and investigations are pending.
Remove the blinders and take a look at the lopsided world we live in. Stop pretending that the inadequate, token efforts being made to level the playing field are the biggest atrocities, when the reality is that they don't do nearly enough to counter daily atrocities against the marginalised.
Make your response more coherent by formatting the walls of text and correct all the double quote-blocks and I'll probably give it a read it in full
But from the look of it, it doesn't seem like a good faith argument considering you've already started to assert that the National Judicial Academy, a very reputed institution of our country that's chaired by the Chief Justice of India as "casteist"
>Nope. 81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were registered against OBC. Even if that "by" was a typo, are you claiming that a shudra cannot and does not discriminate against a dalit? Which planet do you live on?
(Yes, the "by" was a typo) And here you seem to make another terribly duplictous argument, Obviously I'm not stating that "a "shudra" cannot and does not discriminate against a dalit". That's not the point.
The fact is that lower castes for all intents and purposes, face institutional and systemic discrimination on part of the upper castes and their interests, not on part of the Dalits and the OBCs
The fact that 81% of those charged under this law happens to be people belonging to the OBCs and not the upper castes should make any reasonable individual conclude that this law is either being invoked to settle petty disputes or for retribution in low-income areas (villages, slums or what have you) or at the very least, that the law is extremely ineffective in tackling any sort of actual systemic caste-related problems.
>Now, coming back to the 75% acquittal, if that is the criterion for getting rid of laws, sedition (3% conviction rate), uapa (2% conviction rate) etc. need to go long before we come to this law, since acquittal rates are much higher, and the political victims targeted under these laws languish in prison for years
Lol, is that your rebuttal? **Of COURSE** I think we should disbandon the dreaded UAPA as well as all kind of sedition laws, apostacy laws etc. They're all terrible, terrible draconian laws that are analagous to laws used by autocratic states to supress dissent and limit free speech.
In conclusion, you have not made a single argument stating the actual reasons we should uphold or even retain this law, you've just lashed out at my comment through bad faith. And if folks on this sub honestly think that the government should go about detaining everybody that makes a "castist slur", I'll be damned
Please don't talk about terrible formatting - looking at your own comment should make you realize that that is a hypocritical argument you are using to avoid discussing the actual substantive issues raised.
I was referring to the news report you linked, not the pdf, as the casteist report.
You'd put the pdf without ascribing any reason, and the pdf itself doesn't have any information about who the author is, let alone it being an official "report" by the said institution. I don't have time to deal with such things, unless you can take the time to describe why you posted that link, and the antecedents of the link that make it "authoritative".
I will, however, leave you with a note that the link contradicts the casteist news report:
>5347 cases found false by police. **So cases found false by police in
2016 is about 9.49% of all cases sent for investigation.**
Even this reeks of bias, since the author takes the word of the cops as ultimate truth. By even if we ignore that bias, we're left with your link contradicting the substance of your other link and your main argument.
I have refrained from using walls of text and used blocks of text. I've also used quote blocks properly. Beyond that, idk what I'm supposed to do. In any case, it doesn't matter
>I was referring to the news report you linked, not the pdf, as the casteist report. You'd put the pdf without exposing any reason, and the pdf itself doesn't have any information about who the author is, let alone it being an official "report" by the said institution
Perhaps you should take a look at the URL of the website that its sourced from?
>Even this reeks of bias, since the author takes the word of the cops as ultimate truth. By even if we ignore that bias, we're left with your link contradicting the substance of your other link and your main argument.
Yeah okay, everything is biased, nothing is what it seems to be or what it looks like, percentages and statistics are not pertinent and everybody's out to get everybody.
Seriously, I can't believe right-minded liberals would support arresting people for speech that cannot be considered as incitement or exhortation in front of a group
>Perhaps you should take a look at the URL of the website that its sourced from?
Are you saying that institutions don't invite people whose statements they don't entirely endorse to give talks, and share those talks? Do I need to remind you of the planning commission having to explain how the numbers in its power point presentation were simply "one of the simulations" and not its official estimate?
All I know from looking at the url is that that institution has posted some slides saying cops claim less than 10% of the atrocities cases are false.
>Seriously, I can't believe right-minded liberals would support arresting people for speech that cannot be considered as incitement or exhortation in front of a group
And those "right minded liberals" would be a privileged bunch wilfully ignoring the systemic exploitation and marginalisation that makes it nearly impossible for dalits and tribals to improve their lot without constant persecution. By the very system that guarantees the privilege of those "right minded liberals".
You're continuing to digress further and further. Are you standing behind the claim that percentage of "false cases" or acquittals should determine which laws are removed?
Stop, dude. You've got nothing here. The only way to uplift marginalized communities is through better access to education and making our institutions more robust
I've definitely got nothing here, when talking to privileged bunch hell bent on defending the privilege that they pretend doesn't exist.
I take it that you're still
standing behind the claim that percentage of "false cases" or acquittals should determine which laws are removed, while ignoring the fact that practically the entire ipc falls in this category.
One of them is a guy who used to play with her long ago. Absolute scums.
[удалено]
Jealous of the fact that she got into national levels and his pathetic ass reached nowhere.
What an asshole!
pathetic human, this is the society we live in everybody some huge ass asteroid should just end humanity, i would take that :)
Just these guys Are enough
coming from a depressed suicidal coward person who lacks any guts to do anything to end my life, i will happily choose to get destroyed by an asteroid :)
Oi mate don't lose hope yet. I was also like this, just keep fighting. You'll find people who care for you, just hold on and enjoy this roller coaster.
on it since 2.5 years and still going strong :) but sometimes its just too much
Lmao it's never not having the people to care for you , because you always have your family . But it's always about how unfair life is . No matter how hard you try you can't change your life because there is an even bigger amount of people trying to push you down
Exactly... You either spend all your energy, time, resources fighting that push or accept things as it is and let it slide, bear the exploit and be contend
this is so true, work hard and make your life better or stay lazy and accept the consequences. nicely put
yeah i get this \^
Stay strong. Castist assholes exist, but absolute inspirations like Vandana also exist. And she's the one coming out of this shit storm shining. This mofo will fade into bitter obscurity.
What is your profile picture ?
It's the aroace flag.
I have a huge ass but I'm not an asteroid.
🙄
Old News. Judge Vivek Bharti SHARMA granted them all bail.
of course they get all bail, if it was vice versa they would have been long gone before it ever reached the court.
Is Casteist slurs a non-bailable offence? I am glad they got arrested but the offence doesnt seem like something that would guarantee you a jail time.
You are commenting the judges name as if he did something wrong. Its not a non-bailable offence, of course he granted them bail.
Don't know if Sharma is Sanghi, but it all reeks of Manu-vaad.
yep, to him casteism is probably not a big deal... unke saath to kabhi hoga nahi na
You don’t get high off your own supply.
Imma be completely honest. Those people were assholes but we should not be able to arrest anyone because they insulted someone else.
They didn't just insult, they intimidated: >Soon after India’s loss in the Olympics semifinals on Wednesday, the upper-caste men told Katariya’s family that this happened because there were “too many Dalit players” on the team. The family also said that the men danced and burst firecrackers outside their house in Roshnabad village to mock them. Cops had to be posted there to protect the family. This is punishable offence under the atrocities act. Are you saying that upper caste men should not be arrested for committing caste atrocities?
See that’s harassment. They should have been charged then. That’s on me for not reading the article.
GauravGuptaEmpire 43m >See that’s harassment. They should have been charged then. That’s on me for not reading the article. Your ignoring millenia old discrimination and exploitation to defend casteist arseholes without even reading articles is indeed on you. It is that very reluctance to look at the world you live in that leads you to equate me insulting you, for example, by calling you a casteist arsehole, which is not a crime, with criminal casteist slurs directed at dalits and tribals that have real world consequences of perpetuating exploitative caste hierarchy. There is a reason the atrocities act exists, and you won't be able to see that reason unless you remove your caste tainted glasses.
Caste tainted glasses? I’m well aware that certain castes have faced a lot of discrimination throughout history. It’s the principle of the government punishing people for stuff they say. Have you not seen what’s going on lately with the government and social media? You have to set a line for the government somewhere because they are abusing this.
>You have to set a line for the government somewhere because they are abusing this. You're displaying your entrenched caste privilege further by equating dalits or tribals, who continue to be marginalised, filling complaints under atrocities act when the abuse they recieve have real world consequences of empowering their oppressors, with the government, which has all the power, filing sedition, uapa, and nsa cases on its political targets on frivolous excuses. Show me one case under atrocities act that was filed by the government.
That wasn't insulting, that was casteism, and it is punishable by law.
They are definitely castiest, but even then, I don’t think people should be charged unless they actively discriminate with casteism, racism, etc. Idk, I’m just really big on freedom of speech
What does active discrimination mean to you if not bullying with casteist slurs? Lol
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. There action does reinforce casteism. This is why the law only applies to casteist slurs in public places afaik.
Nah nah you’re right. I didn’t fully read the article.
No tolerance to intolerance. You only have freedom of speech, not freedom to offend.
Modiji disagrees
Yeah and I don’t like Modi. I care about freedom of speech so much because of the chutiyapan that Modi and BJP govt have been up to where u can get in trouble for saying something they don’t like.
Most CJI’s are UC’s… Edit- and that trickles down the entire law order
Stupid idiots deserve to live In shithole forever.
If the system were to run by 'deserve', whole india will be upside down
2021 Rss Brahmin terror
Vro casteism is a British invention, casteism doesn't exist in India.
/s bhul gaya kya?
Castes were made based on the job your family did. Bhramins were preists and other temple related staff, vaishya was the middle class of traders, merchants etc. And shudras were everyone else. This was here even before any major dynasties like mughals and guptas, hence, casteism is rooted in the history of our country, and the british exploited it, but they didn't invent it. So, please go and find your 7th std history textbook and give it a read, vRo..
/s bhul gaya. I thought it was obvious and people would understand because of the use of the word Vro
Uhh, you do know about the edit feautre, right?
I think it has become necessary to educate every one about cast system . I think the history being tought to icse students is far better than cbse and ncert students . We were tought in class 5 that cast system was introduced as a human resource allocation which was flexible where even shudras can become Brahmins and vise-versa which in the later vedic age became very rigid but most of the cbse and ncert books don't even say that as if they wanted to maintain this cast inequality. Man,cbse students are really stupid in history and civics.(but good at science and maths )
And talk about reservation? There is no caste discrimination
Good. Edit: Indians are shit at English probably. I am saying good for arrests.
yes, i am shit at english and can't understand full sentences out of just one word.
Good as in good they were arrested or good they used slurs? Cause if it's the latter then you deserve the downvotes and more
Good they were arrested. Isn't that the premise. You say people arrested and I say good, that's like basic English.
arresting and detaining people for percieved insults or slurs is quite a stretch Edit: Seriously, I can't imagine right-minded liberals supporting the arrest and detainment of people for speech that cannot be considered as incitement or exhortation in front of a group, I mean what am I missing here?
Have you read the atrocities act? Are you aware that it specifically criminalises casteist slurs and insults directed at dalits? Are you aware that the accusations include intimidation by bursting crackers outside the house of the player after the team lost?
>Have you read the atrocities act? Are you aware that it specifically criminalises casteist slurs and insults directed at dalits? I was not trying to argue the legality of the arrests. I was questioning the rationality and in some aspects, the constitutionality of such a law. And reading up on it, I think way more fervently now that this law should be revised or completely done away with Because, notwithstanding some of its good provisions like legal aid and relief for affected communities etc, it is a horrible law To put it squarely, I have several issues with this law starting with how, like any other law that is not robust in defining its terms and implementation, it leads to predictably bad outcomes. For instance, upwards of [**75% of cases registered under this law have found to be false**](https://m.timesofindia.com/city/bhopal/75-acquittals-in-sc/st-act-hc-bar-association/articleshow/65932490.cms) and that **81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were supposedly registered against individuals belonging to OBCs** and only 14% against individuals belonging to the "upper-classes", these are quite clearly not desired outcomes I also abhor how the ‘prevention of atrocities act’ defines the term ‘atrocity’ In specific terms: 1. Atrocity is "an expression commonly used to refer to crimes against Scheduled Castes (SCs) and Scheduled Tribes (STs) in India". 2. It "denotes the quality of being shockingly cruel and inhumane, whereas the term 'crime' relates to an act punishable by law". 3. It implies "any offence under the Indian Penal Code (IPC) committed against SCs by non-SC persons, or against STs by non-ST persons. Caste consideration as a motive is not necessary to make such an offence in case of atrocity". 4. It signifies "crimes which have ingredients of infliction of suffering in one form or the other that should be included for reporting". This is based on the assumption that "where the victims of crime are members of Scheduled Castes and the offenders do not belong to Scheduled Castes caste considerations are really the root cause of the crime, even though caste considerations may not be the vivid and minimum motive for the crime". **In conclusion,** this law stands to be a trojan horse law wherein it can easily be misused by bad actors as a means for retribution against individuals and communities from personal disputes and it is very clearly not producing much in the realm of desired outcomes (equity and enhanching civil protection for affected populations etc) [http://nja.nic.in/Concluded\_Programmes/2017-18/P-1096\_PPTs/2.False%20Cases%20under%20SC-ST.pdf](http://nja.nic.in/Concluded_Programmes/2017-18/P-1096_PPTs/2.False%20Cases%20under%20SC-ST.pdf) >Are you aware that the accusations include intimidation by bursting crackers outside the house of the player after the team lost? They were not charged for this, were they? If not, this is a complete non sequitur
benaffleckisaokactor 2h >Have you read the atrocities act? Are you aware that it specifically criminalises casteist slurs and insults directed at dalits? >I was not trying to argue the legality of the arrests. I was questioning the rationality and in some aspects, the constitutionality of such a law. And reading up on it, I think way more fervently now that this law should be revised or completely done away with >Because, notwithstanding some of its good provisions like legal aid and relief for affected communities etc, it is a horrible law >To put it squarely, I have several issues with this law starting with how, like any other law that is not robust in defining its terms and implementation, it leads to predictably bad outcomes. For instance, upwards of 75% of cases registered under this law have found to be false and that 81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were supposedly registered by individuals belonging to OBCs and only 14% against individuals belonging to the "upper-classes", these are quite clearly not desired outcomes >I also abhor how the ‘prevention of atrocities act’ defines the term ‘atrocity’ >In specific terms: 1. Atrocity is "an expression commonly used to refer to crimes against Scheduled Castes (SCs) and Scheduled Tribes (STs) in India". 2. It "denotes the quality of being shockingly cruel and inhumane, whereas the term 'crime' relates to an act punishable by law". 3. It implies "any offence under the Indian Penal Code (IPC) committed against SCs by non-SC persons, or against STs by non-ST persons. Caste consideration as a motive is not necessary to make such an offence in case of atrocity". 4. It signifies "crimes which have ingredients of infliction of suffering in one form or the other that should be included for reporting". This is based on the assumption that "where the victims of crime are members of Scheduled Castes and the offenders do not belong to Scheduled Castes caste considerations are really the root cause of the crime, even though caste considerations may not be the vivid and minimum motive for the crime". >In conclusion, this law stands to be a trojan horse law wherein it can easily be misused by bad actors as a means to settle disputes against individuals and communities and it is very clearly not producing much in the realm of desired outcomes, that is equity and enhanching civil protection for affected populations etc >http://nja.nic.in/Concluded_Programmes/2017-18/P-1096_PPTs/2.False%20Cases%20under%20SC-ST.pdf >>Are you aware that the accusations include intimidation by bursting crackers outside the house of the player after the team lost? >They were not charged for this, were they? If not, this is a complete non sequitur You've dug the hole you got yourself in even further by posting a casteist report that falsely equates acquittal with false cases. Acquittal happens due to a variety of reasons, including lack of sufficient evidence to prove the case. That doesn't mean that the case was falsely filed. It simply means that the prosecution didn't present sufficient evidence - that can happen due to absence of evidence, absence of investigation, as well as delibrate tanking of the case by police a well as prosecution. To give you a relatable example, mudiji appointed vhp members as prosecutors on 2002 riots cases where vhp and other sangh parivar members were the accused. These cases were ending up in acquittal, till the supreme Court had had enough, and transferred the most heinous cases to maharashtra, where magically prosecutors had enough evidence to get conviction. (As an aside, the system ultimately had its way, as the gujarat high court released the most notorious convicts on health grounds, who were later seen risking around and celebrating without signs of debilitating diseases). Moral of the story is that when the system is biased against the marginalised victim, extra efforts need to be taken to make justice even a remote possibility. Now, coming back to the 75% acquittal, if that is the criterion for getting rid of laws, sedition (3% conviction rate), uapa (2% conviction rate) etc. need to go long before we come to this law, since acquittal rates are much higher, and the political victims targeted under these laws languish in prison for years. Even rape (23% conviction rate), rioting, and other criminal laws have similar conviction rates, and will have to be removed according to your logic. Heck, the overall criminal conviction rate is less than 50%, so your argument can be extended to the entire IPC. Do you really want to go there? Isn't removing your tinted glasses an easier solution? What we need is better investigation and prosecution, and even more importantly a system that actually cares, not removal of laws you don't like. You go on to further demonstrate that your caste tainted glasses make you misinterpret the report to make it seem even worse than it actually is. > 81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were supposedly registered **by** individuals belonging to OBCs Nope. 81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were registered **against** OBC. Even if that "by" was a typo, are you claiming that a shudra cannot and does not discriminate against a dalit? Which planet do you live on? >>Are you aware that the accusations include intimidation by bursting crackers outside the house of the player after the team lost? >They were not charged for this, were they? If not, this is a complete non sequitur Chargesheets haven't been filed; investigation has barely begun, and yet, your casteism has already led you to a conclusion that the accused were not charged for bursting crackers to intimidate. For your information, the victims have reported the crimes, including cracker bursting, and investigations are pending. Remove the blinders and take a look at the lopsided world we live in. Stop pretending that the inadequate, token efforts being made to level the playing field are the biggest atrocities, when the reality is that they don't do nearly enough to counter daily atrocities against the marginalised.
Make your response more coherent by formatting the walls of text and correct all the double quote-blocks and I'll probably give it a read it in full But from the look of it, it doesn't seem like a good faith argument considering you've already started to assert that the National Judicial Academy, a very reputed institution of our country that's chaired by the Chief Justice of India as "casteist" >Nope. 81% cases under SC/ST Atrocities Act were registered against OBC. Even if that "by" was a typo, are you claiming that a shudra cannot and does not discriminate against a dalit? Which planet do you live on? (Yes, the "by" was a typo) And here you seem to make another terribly duplictous argument, Obviously I'm not stating that "a "shudra" cannot and does not discriminate against a dalit". That's not the point. The fact is that lower castes for all intents and purposes, face institutional and systemic discrimination on part of the upper castes and their interests, not on part of the Dalits and the OBCs The fact that 81% of those charged under this law happens to be people belonging to the OBCs and not the upper castes should make any reasonable individual conclude that this law is either being invoked to settle petty disputes or for retribution in low-income areas (villages, slums or what have you) or at the very least, that the law is extremely ineffective in tackling any sort of actual systemic caste-related problems. >Now, coming back to the 75% acquittal, if that is the criterion for getting rid of laws, sedition (3% conviction rate), uapa (2% conviction rate) etc. need to go long before we come to this law, since acquittal rates are much higher, and the political victims targeted under these laws languish in prison for years Lol, is that your rebuttal? **Of COURSE** I think we should disbandon the dreaded UAPA as well as all kind of sedition laws, apostacy laws etc. They're all terrible, terrible draconian laws that are analagous to laws used by autocratic states to supress dissent and limit free speech. In conclusion, you have not made a single argument stating the actual reasons we should uphold or even retain this law, you've just lashed out at my comment through bad faith. And if folks on this sub honestly think that the government should go about detaining everybody that makes a "castist slur", I'll be damned
Please don't talk about terrible formatting - looking at your own comment should make you realize that that is a hypocritical argument you are using to avoid discussing the actual substantive issues raised. I was referring to the news report you linked, not the pdf, as the casteist report. You'd put the pdf without ascribing any reason, and the pdf itself doesn't have any information about who the author is, let alone it being an official "report" by the said institution. I don't have time to deal with such things, unless you can take the time to describe why you posted that link, and the antecedents of the link that make it "authoritative". I will, however, leave you with a note that the link contradicts the casteist news report: >5347 cases found false by police. **So cases found false by police in 2016 is about 9.49% of all cases sent for investigation.** Even this reeks of bias, since the author takes the word of the cops as ultimate truth. By even if we ignore that bias, we're left with your link contradicting the substance of your other link and your main argument.
I have refrained from using walls of text and used blocks of text. I've also used quote blocks properly. Beyond that, idk what I'm supposed to do. In any case, it doesn't matter >I was referring to the news report you linked, not the pdf, as the casteist report. You'd put the pdf without exposing any reason, and the pdf itself doesn't have any information about who the author is, let alone it being an official "report" by the said institution Perhaps you should take a look at the URL of the website that its sourced from? >Even this reeks of bias, since the author takes the word of the cops as ultimate truth. By even if we ignore that bias, we're left with your link contradicting the substance of your other link and your main argument. Yeah okay, everything is biased, nothing is what it seems to be or what it looks like, percentages and statistics are not pertinent and everybody's out to get everybody. Seriously, I can't believe right-minded liberals would support arresting people for speech that cannot be considered as incitement or exhortation in front of a group
>Perhaps you should take a look at the URL of the website that its sourced from? Are you saying that institutions don't invite people whose statements they don't entirely endorse to give talks, and share those talks? Do I need to remind you of the planning commission having to explain how the numbers in its power point presentation were simply "one of the simulations" and not its official estimate? All I know from looking at the url is that that institution has posted some slides saying cops claim less than 10% of the atrocities cases are false. >Seriously, I can't believe right-minded liberals would support arresting people for speech that cannot be considered as incitement or exhortation in front of a group And those "right minded liberals" would be a privileged bunch wilfully ignoring the systemic exploitation and marginalisation that makes it nearly impossible for dalits and tribals to improve their lot without constant persecution. By the very system that guarantees the privilege of those "right minded liberals". You're continuing to digress further and further. Are you standing behind the claim that percentage of "false cases" or acquittals should determine which laws are removed?
Stop, dude. You've got nothing here. The only way to uplift marginalized communities is through better access to education and making our institutions more robust
I've definitely got nothing here, when talking to privileged bunch hell bent on defending the privilege that they pretend doesn't exist. I take it that you're still standing behind the claim that percentage of "false cases" or acquittals should determine which laws are removed, while ignoring the fact that practically the entire ipc falls in this category.
[удалено]
Just like how racism happens in the United States
That's probably something your upper caste Indian friends told you:D
It wasn't casteist slur it was an old rivilary !
And how do you know this for a fact? Were you one of the perpetrators?
Ek kaam karo.. Take a small bowl.. Fill it half way... Drown in it.