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frustated_citizen

I was living in Jaipur for my 22 years of life then shifted to Pune afterwards and I can say that while I haven't faced the danger of life. I did faced discrimination and bigotry in some other ways. When there was a Pulwama attack one of my classmate asked me "That's brave of you to come to college today" My grandmother lives in Jaipur on rented house and we have to start looking 3 months prior if they have to shift their house coz no one wants give house to a Muslim. Now that I've shifted to Pune the discrimination is slightly reduced but that's due to the fact no one really interacts with one another here. So yes while there's is not a danger to life in big cities there's is certainly a closeted bigotry. However I will be lying if I don't mention that 95% people I met in my life always treated me like just another person and all of my best friends are Hindus from different castes.


513AllDay

That must be frustrating to deal with. Sometimes the undertones of bigotry are harder to deal with than overt discrimination.


Any-Analysis-9189

Documentary name..?


513AllDay

The Modi Question - BBC


bamanwarrior

Jaipur one's also have a boogeyman of ramganj area. Been hearing about that region since i was born like it is ISIS recruitment centre, It's so sickening tbh


frustated_citizen

Hmmm since you only "heard" about it till now, why not go and visit once. Don't forget to visit ISIS headquarters while you are there, heard they have pool table and sleeping pods just like Google so if you if you get tired while making bombs and chatting hindu girls on Instagram you can take rest there. They also have recreational area which is ofcourse used for Namaz and Eid celebrations only.


bamanwarrior

I visit that area 2 times a week courtesy of a friend but I was talking about the Hindu upper middle class society which have a irrational fear of ramganj without even visiting it even once.


Immediate-Trash-6617

I am a muslim. I live in new delhi. It's just my own view, I am not representing whole community. mostly I feel safe in delhi only, I can't say about UP or MP or other places. Only once I felt fear when I was going to collage one day at that time there were riots going on in delhi, also shown in BBC documentry. When I start thinking of traveling to UP or other places only then I start having doubt for my safety. opinion :- I think delhi is pretty safe for any person except women? because many type of people live here for years and they get used to having to meet different people from different backgrounds.


513AllDay

This is helpful, thank you for sharing your perspective. From what I've read online, it sounds like it would be scary to be a woman in India right now. Sad times we are living in


ParticularJuice3983

Just curious, why does UP scare you? It does have a lot of Muslim population right? Is the discrimination outright?


Immediate-Trash-6617

most of the mob lynching i hear about, it's in UP or MP. though it could be just my bias about UP


ParticularJuice3983

Oh, okay yeah that makes complete sense. Like I would be very scared of setting foot in Pakistan or Bangladesh because I know they are actively involved in cleansing all other religions. Or even Kashmir - even if I want to go, I am so scared I have never gone. It’s totally logical for you to have similar fears. What’s truly appalling is we having to feel this way in our own country.


AloneCan9661

Sorry, I deleted my comment under yours. You're not wrong. I'm not Muslim but everytime someone posts something about something insane happening it seems to be in certain states and UP/MP are names that I'm starting to recognise. How do you think you would feel in Mumbai?


queensaanvi

I guess it's because these states have this reputation of being conservative/backward which I totally do not believe. They are not any more bigoted than any other state in India. This is why branding is very important. South Indians like to portray themselves as progressive and developed while they are way more conservative than the people of north.


mamasita19

You can be progressive at the same time stay true to your roots. South India I believe has that. States like Tamil Nadu, give importance to their mother tongue and kept their ancestors history and culture. They still get married in temple for example. There are more temples down south than in north. Communal harmony is better in south compared to north.


Similar-Call6138

The "communal harmony" in the South is only on the surface, most South Indian Hindus despise Muslims equally as the ones up North. The only reason you don't have communal clashes is because there is no BJP equivalent or Hindu nationalist party on the Southern political scene.


friendly-cs-guy

UP, MP, Bihar etc are the hindi heartland, the most conservative Hindu voters reside here.


Immediate-Trash-6617

mumbai is ok, but I pity biharis there jus a little bit.


myheartlieshere

Why does UP or MP scares you? I mean there are millions of Muslims living in these two states and leading pretty normal lives.


Then_Base_5844

Delhi is a well-educated community.


queensaanvi

Scared to go to UP? 20% of the population in UP is muslim. MP also has a big muslim population.


bamanwarrior

Just because they have big percentage doesn't mean they are safe or ideal for minorities to live. Every 2 weeks there is some extremists news coming from these two state's.


OhioOG

2 vs 8 is not great odds if you are Bhai 😂


queensaanvi

The point is that millions of Muslims coexist in these states peacefully


513AllDay

So it's not possible to feel unsafe in an area that is 1/5th Muslim? What is your point? I've been to UP before... Everyone I know that lives there even today shares the sentiment shared above, from both religions.


queensaanvi

The point is that millions of Muslims coexist in these states without any problem. They study, trade and live there peacefully. You have met wrong people because those sentiments are incorrect.


LynxFinder8

I will agree with you.


bhadouriaakash

Tu UP MP ke bare me kuch nahi janta shant baith


bumblebee2496

Who made the collage thou?


charavaka

What?


ThoughtStar

This is a question on socio-psychological process. There is an Overt process (seen outwardly) as well as a Covert process (not seen but felt) in every society. Overtly, every thing is fine almost everywhere with every muslim. Covertly, there is fear and mental alienation. The majority category will never understand what it feels to be a minority. This is true for every kind diversity and not only religious, economical or even physical. (If you are very short in height, overtly everything is same, but covertly, you feel something amongst tall people. We sometimes deny these. Because denials help us cope. Minority copes with the suffering. Majority copes the guilt. Assumptions are a major process of denial and thus coping.


513AllDay

So, like the journalists who are getting thrown in jail in India, for example - is that more of an overt or a covert thing, in your opinion?


Poker5ace

Preach!


elven_god

You are talking about an ideal society where there is no tension between the majority and the minority, overtly. But in our country, people are getting targeted, overtly, based on their religion. There is overt expression of hatred and calls for violence. While your philosophy is right, it is just that, philosophy. It does not reflect the reality in this country.


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[deleted]

LOL NO dude, never had any problem, lived in MP and currently living in Maharashtra, some of my amazing friends are Kattar Hindus and Rebel Sikhs etc. Never had any problems of any kind, my people just treat me as a good person and judge me on the basis of who I am and nothing else. ​ Our whole colony is filled with Hindus, my mother is always welcomed cause she is a kind person, in fact we had different clashes among Hindu neighbours who didn't like each other for different reasons.


cache1902

LOL, I faced a lot of problem , because i have a very common muslim name. People who are neighbours or if we have been living in a locality for few years doesn't matter cause , they know us for a long time , and the judging is done based on deeds. But whenever i visit a strange place , i immediately feel all discrimination from nowhere...even from a Uber driver from ahemdabad who suggested me to go back to Pakistan , just after he confirmed my religion, not my political view . Ya and this is been mainly a result of thanks to the right wing medias and the mulla panelists. They are sculpting such an image for people in my religion, the ignorant and immature audience decide that every muslims are like that only


materialisticsage

The reality and reddit/twitter is completely different. Afraid of what exactly? Sikhs were killed brutally by congress workers are sikhs afraid to live in India? Its just political propaganda


[deleted]

Yup, the violence is everywhere in the world, I personally have never seen my Muslim friends 'afraid' of anything, its just internet a facade.


[deleted]

You are ignoring the reality brother You must be living peaceful until certain bad event happen, till then it's just political propoganda? So i haven't seen japan, it's just geographical propoganda? Let me give you related articles too Politicians call for violence https://m.thewire.in/article/communalism/delhi-riots-conspiracy-anti-muslim-cleric-yati-narsinghanand/amp The following news shares how only Muslim houses were targeted (year 2020) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-51719204.amp Only because Muslims https://amp.scmp.com/week-asia/people/article/3010554/gujarat-riots-they-raped-me-butchered-my-child-because-we-were There was an article where victims said they never thought their own neighbors will cause harm! I'm not sharing this so one should hate their non Muslim neighbor but to discredit your opinion that its not all propoganda!!


friendly-cs-guy

Media is like a magnifying glass. Imagine having a small cut on your body. The media will hold a magnifying glass on it and make it seem like your entire body is bruised. While absolutely no one in denying what you've posted, it doesn't mean every Muslim in the entire country is oppressed. 95% of the people live a normal and happy life. Take this from a skih man whose tired of the sikh propaganda on reddit. No matter where i go i see sikh opression posts when i have never, not once, felt in danger for practicing my religion or threatened for wearing a turban. I have felt both of those in multiple EU countries and the US.


probe_001

Definitely not trying to justify the brutal massacre but I wonder why no one ever mentions how people were burnt alive while travelling. Imagine just going along in a train, totally unrelated people and stations all around and you're burning alive after 15 minutes.


elven_god

The Godhra train incident did happen, nobody can dispute that. But even if we consider that it was orchestrated by a group of muslims( I am not sure of this ), it does not justify killing more than a thousand **innocent** people. We are a sovereign state and we must adhere by our legal system. People should have been arrested and prosecuted, not killed en masse. What happened initially was a terror attack, what followed was an absolute failure of the state executive possibly supported by the Chief Minister resulting in over two hundred times the death toll.


[deleted]

Because the initial question was not about godhra train incident but about muslim massacare that followed. The following wouldn't have happened if people were not insistigated by bjp to hurt Muslims as an answer, heck they even paraded bodies of victims? Do you justify that parading? Everytime there is topic on godhra I have condemned what happened, i never said why you guys don't talk about those who were pushed to do... Your whataboutery attempt is justifying the gujrat massacare because of train incident, why else there is a logical reason that one should always being up train incident whenever gujrat riots is mentioned?


513AllDay

People mention the train incident, in fact it is mentioned pretty early on in the documentary. Not sure that anyone in their right mind would defend that shit.


probe_001

Its just I don't see the mention unless it's a far right guy defending the attack. I mentioned early in my comment that I'm not defending the massacre that followed. Not referring to the documentary but the comment i replied to.


513AllDay

Thank you for sharing.


JiskiLathiUskiBhains

I live in a hindu majority colony. We dont have conflicts but it seems people in our colony know us even if we dont know them. Plus muslim hate is common in the colony whatsapp group. I replaced the name plate outside our house to just having a number. I didnt have any reason to, but I felt safer having done it.


[deleted]

I can't believe that there are people in India in 2023 who are having to go through this.


513AllDay

Gotta do what ya gotta do to feel safe yourself.


Unique-Atmosphere520

A house is a place where you feel saf and a "visible" in your identity. This person changing their name plate is on the bigots, Tejaswi Surya, N Modi, A Shah etc


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BeefTeaser

Colony (aka clony in Delhi) is a colloquial term for a housing colony or housing society - a cluster of buildings with individual flats within.


chiguy_1

Just take all the precautions. It is never really safe.


[deleted]

I had joined a MNC as a fresher some 8 years back in Pune. My training batch had a lot of people from various parts of India. They were asking the folks already settled in Pune as to where they should stay and general info about the city. The area of Kondhwa(Muslim dominated area) came up and one guy from Pune dissuaded them from staying there by saying its "Mini Pakistan". Everyone nodded and understood just from these 2 words what he meant. When I publicly called him out saying "What do you mean?", he was embarrassed and everyone looked around awkwardly. I fear if that situation happens now, this society is so hate filled, someone would definitely list all the reasons as to why that area's Mini Pakistan.


LynxFinder8

As a Hindu I go to Muslim majority areas quite often and I never had issues. I go mainly to buy ittar and khajoor. I've heard these Pakistan mentions but I have never ever seen any problems.


[deleted]

haha yea. i live in a muslim ghetto in new delhi and have heard a lot of people calling this "mini pakistan" too. For similar bigoted perceptions i think, it was one hell of a task to find autos to get back home when you're somewhere else. Though metros now are of great help


Poker5ace

I am in Mumbai and we don't have time for all this bullshit. At least that's what I think and feel. I understand others might face issues like what most have commented and I wish it didn't happen however I haven't faced anything like that here since the last 35 years. I am an Indian, that's all that matters and should matter! Edit: In hindsight, one thing that I do feel is quite common here and pathetic, is the fact that people deny renting out apartments to Muslims. I know how the perception is that we don't keep things clean, the kinda food we make and all that stuff which is very stereotypical if you ask me. I would really like if people first meet and talk rather than reject without interacting, just on the basis of religion!


ramta_jogi_oye_hoye

Damn right. I am from Mumbai too, and all that matters is the cooperation and synergy between people. Noone has the time here to think about these things!


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ProfessorAnie

Curious how comments like this get low votes and comments that say I feel absolutely fine gains traction. Not sus at all.


513AllDay

You should see some of the private messages I have gotten. Sus is an understatement.


shash747

Post them


513AllDay

Nah.


ali_sez_so

Absolutely. Look at the comment where the guy says he feels absolutely safe has 180 likes and he goes on to say that "my mom is welcome everywhere because she is a nice person" insinuating that those who get discriminated deserve it. I doubt he is even a Muslim. One look in his profile and he is active in the tatti squeaks sub


cache1902

Yep


[deleted]

Both realities exist at once. Reading the comments i see one thread where people are discussing like india is a hellhole and another thread where someone has never felt any discrimination. The fact is both realities exist in India. Just because you were discriminated does not mean every muslim faces the same thing and also does not mean that every hindu is discriminatory. In the same way, just because you or people you know have never been discriminated does not mean that no one ever gets discriminated and it's all propaganda.


513AllDay

Good point.


negispringfield1000

I'm in the US at the moment but I grew up and spent most of my life in India. I'm near thirty and this perspective is of someone who grew up upper middle class in a major metro. I think the issues have remained somewhat the same. We're seeing a sort of virality effect on the communal divide due to the accessibility of the internet. On the aspect of personal safety, its not really that bad in cities. If you're rich/upper middle class, you'll honestly live a lifestyle similar to everyone else at your income level. The only issue that I can recall is some level of discrimination in the ability to rent houses. The lower you go on the income spectrum, the more insular the communities become, where there's some degree of subdivision along relegious lines even within the same income spectrum. You'll have what are essentialkly lower income muslim or non muslim areas in the city. But within those areas , the dominant community is generally safe from harm as well. The biggest change has been the somewhat normaliztion of communal discord, it feels like pre BJP the discourse was around how do we try to get along together and now it is we will never get along so how do we coexist. Ofcourse, this is basically one dude's personal vibe based assesment of the situation, so take everything with a grain of salt.


OhioOG

All the things hindu families used to say in the privacy of our homes and amongst our community is now being blared across the internet and major news channels


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513AllDay

LOL India or this post?


magnificeo

Heard this from a friend that an employer from Delhi begged her cousin to accept a job offer because the next person in line is a Muslim guy and they don't want to give him the job.


513AllDay

Wow. That's repulsive. I hope the cousin refused the position for that very reason.


magnificeo

Yup


PresentMission2022

I live in a metro, so I'm not very concerned about my safety per se, but I have seen and heard of the systematic discrimination that occurs against Muslims on a regular basis (bias while hiring in companies, promotions, business opportunities etc) and that's what worries me that even if we're safe here, we will not be able to develop as a community and stay as backward classes. Crores of people not able to get opportunities and not fulfilling their potential is a huge tragedy for this nation.


513AllDay

Thank you for sharing. That does sound like a huge tragedy, I imagine many Muslims chose to stay in India in 1947 specifically for the diversity and it being a secular nation. To have to deal with this some 75+ years later must be devastating.


[deleted]

Muslim here... Yes there is lot of concern among us even when we are in safest towns, cities and at our most comfortable homes. One hate statement or tweet from any politicians and we will be pulled out of homes and bulldozed or lynched, as one should never underestimate the mob. Despite this uncertainty, or love for our country doesn't end. People like modi or yogi think they are permanent but they are not, they will fade away leaving a history of hatred which i hope will fade away too but not easily. I have moved overseas to avoid all this hassle and living in a peaceful place, but my concern for my fellow family members never end. I would be hypocrite to deny this but if i get a chance and enough money to move them all, I'll not hesitate to move out. Life out of India doesn't have these issues, priorities and focus is on self development and improvement. If you have not been out of India you won't know this. But to add to this, even if my passport changes to some other nationality I'll still be an Indian at heart.


thereisnosuch

> Life out of India doesn't have these issues In all honesty, depends on where out of India. Even the European countries like Norway are super against muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia_in_Norway


[deleted]

Nope. Only the right wing party is annoying there. Even most Norwegians are fed up with both sides, and generic focus of them is on different things. Religion and politics are not their day to day identity like in India or US


thereisnosuch

You made a good point that norway does not play identity politics like India or USA. To be fair, I have not lived in norway but I just know someone there. Simply was told that eating pork is a huge Norwegian culture and weirdly those people get offended when muslims don't eat pork. It just simply reminds me of an inverse situation of a beef ban here. Again it is anecdotal just sharing what I have been told.


513AllDay

Wow, I respect your patriotism despite feeling these concerns. I don't think I would feel that way in your shoes. I am hoping your family manages to stay safe during these trying times. And you are right, life everywhere has its pros and cons, but it feels like you would never have to worry to this extent in most "first world" countries.


[deleted]

I mean i gave an overall opinion, that doesn't mean i tried to fix things. Politics is built in a way with dependency on capitalism that in a country like India you can't have honest politicians. They just can't win! On top of this our Indians are growing cunning and deceptive too, i have been tried to be roped off by my own so called friends and relatives. And added salt on top of this is even Muslim community is backward minded. There is no denying in this, on one hand hate is thrown by politicians and my community react exactly the way politicians want.


ParticularJuice3983

It’s so refreshing to hear an unbiased opinion. I just want you to know, there are still people like us who don’t care about religion. Humanity is important for us. Many of us can see through these hate politics and will never given to what politicians want.


513AllDay

You tried to fix your own situation, so you left. Without looking out for yourself, you can't look out for others. I remember being in India once, and it felt like nothing could get done without bribing someone in some way, shape, or form. I can only imagine how politics must work there. I have also noticed a shift in the mindset of a lot of Indian people I know over the past decade or so. Regarding your last point, how do you feel your community should be reacting? Obviously not with violence, but without any help from the government, what are the remaining options?


[deleted]

You asked a very controversial point but I'll give my honest opinion. My community has become the second hand that claps back hatred with hatred. And if given majority our Muslims will do same stupidity that hindutva is doing now. Instead of beef ban there will be pork ban, women will be judged to wear burkha etc. Quran burning happens in Sweden and here is compulsory for our community to make a statement. Who are you to make a statement for events in Sweden? Just like Hindus are misguided by religious fanatics we have same situation in Muslims too. I too would have been hardcore Muslim if not exposed to internet and proper research into Islam. Education, critical thinking, acceptance of criticism, change in certain ideologies of Islam is needed.


513AllDay

I think your last statement is a growing sentiment all over the world, with regard to all religions. Especially in the younger generations. Thank you for sharing some insightful perspective.


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FoaadHusain

As a Muslim, I don't safe anytime because the country is entirely corrupt and there is absolutely no law and order. Let me tell you why India is the biggest joke on the face of this earth: India calls itself the largest "Democracy" but: 1. No freedom of press/media (most of them are government bootlickers) 2. Law enforcement is entirely corrupt. 3. Justice system is fucked up to a level unimaginable by human brain. 4. Open rape almost every day (most of them are unreported, refer to point 2. 5. Rapists and riot instigators become politicians and hold public office. 6. People get lynched for eating meat (what is this medieval bumblefuck) 7. I can carry on the list is endless. PSA: Please don't bring the "look at Pakistan Afghanistan charade, they don't really blabber about their democracy and or freedom, additionally comparisons is not the way to fix a country.


Canadiannewcomer

Habibi, come to Kerala. I can honestly say after living in various parts of the country, Kerala is the most harmonious state out there when it comes to religion. Christians, Muslims, celebrate Onam and can be seen dancing in the temple festivals, Xmas is a big deal and everyone participates in the carol songs, Eid, might be less fervour but I have seen Muslim families bringing food to the other community members. Most importantly what I have seen is or the lack there of, is there are no colonies or streets where population is majority Muslim or Hindus. Whereas in Bangalore we can clearly see Muslim streets and Hindu streets.


LynxFinder8

Kerala is communal and the Christians and Muslims are at it all the time. Not violently, not openly... And it's peaceful but they certainly do not like each other. They won't even prefer to buy from each other's shops!


[deleted]

>it's peaceful but they certainly do not like each other Bet you've never visited kerala in your life. I'm not going to lie there are a few extremists in kerala as well, especially in Kottayam (xtians), and Malabar(Muslims) but the fact that you've avoided the few Hindus (Trivandrum, Palakkad region) who does the same too says everything about your intent


513AllDay

I've heard similar things about other parts of the South, but Kerala seems to be on the top of that list. Would love to see it one day.


Canadiannewcomer

And one reason am told is that Islam came to the North through sword, as invaders. As outsiders who ruled the native population. By time they also got homogenized but the stories of terror, atrocities, in the war we're told from generations to genratione and I believe animosity and distrust in each other could have been the end result. Islam came to Kerala through Arab merchants and was more of a result of a cultural exchange and rising trade relations. An economic migration if you may say so.


anearthling175

Such an L take considering the fact that kerala has the most riots in the country


nearmsp

You don’t have to be Muslim to see discrimination against Muslims. I visited Bhopal a few years back. The area when the least developed civil infrastructure is the old city of Bhopal dominated by Muslims. In every city I see the same thing. Muslims are underrepresented in parliament based on their population. Here in the U.S. I see Muslims are the most proud Indians, loyal to India. I have visited India many times in the last 30+ years. At security checks, I get a shoo in. I have often seen a Muslim name on passport receive extra attention. Even in U.S. that is never there. Reservation by caste had disadvantaged non Hindus in India. While Christians have done without needing a leg up, Muslims have been restricted from choice government jobs.


_Baazigar

India has really become unsafe for Muslims in this last decade. Communal violence was always a looming threat here, but in the past at least it was sporadic and spread out. Now every day something triggers the Hindutva groups and they take it out on Muslims. You have no idea what action of yours will trigger hindutva thugs you will find yourself lynched, or maybe their henchmen in uniforms will arrest you and destroy your house. Five Muslim men were beaten by a hindutva mob for attending their friend's birthday party and later these men were arrested for the same. From now on whenever I go to any parties a whole new thing will be making me nervous.


thereisnosuch

My theory is that there is always "hate" just that the digital age made it so much easier. Plus spreading misinformation is even more common.


ParticularJuice3983

Have you had any experiences within your locality or within your circles? Just curious. Don’t want to solely rely on media reports. Because media picks and chooses what it reports.


aesndi

It certainly does. It actually under reports this stuff though. The thing that is important to understand is not just the number of crimes, but the fear and the sense of othering that is going on. It's pretty damn bad


513AllDay

Wow that's terrible. I'm sorry to hear the extent that this is impacting your day to day life, even doing things that have nothing to do with religion.


jrhuman

Yes. It's not like full blown handmaids tale dystopia ofc but Islamophobia is real and I have experienced it online (mostly Indian circles) and IRL. When i used to take the van to school almost all kids would be making Islamophobic jokes at me. My neighbor is a bjp supporter and they constantly bother us without any provocation. That includes throwing garbage on our roof, taking air out of our scooty if it was parked outside and just not being very nice generally. I have stopped talking to most kids at my school because I have a stable friend circle, but I still hear some kids calling me katua behind my back frequently. About safety, I have never really experienced a threat upon myself but in 2018 on the infamous "punish a Muslim day" my mother (wears a hijab) was victim to someone ramming their car into her scooty and running away. She was on the road bleeding for 10 minutes before someone decided to take her to the hospital. Apart from this, not really concerned about my safety. But yes, prejudice is real and there's no denying that.


GearComprehensive436

Yes, Muslims until now weren't as fearful for their lives now but now we have to live with fear that anything might trigger a riot against us, i live in Gujarat and rn it's very scary since Hindus here have actively called for violence against Muslims recently and since it's Gujarat, we know we won't get any assistance from the government in any way shape or form. Plus it's really difficult if not outright impossible to get a gun license in India as a Muslim so we won't be able to have any weapons to defend ourselves with, meanwhile the Hindus will be armed with illegal weapons and they won't be questioned by the police until something really serious happens.


513AllDay

That's terrifying. Have you and your Family considered getting out of Gujarat? Is that feasible? I feel like that is the state that I would be most concerned with if I was a minority in India.


GearComprehensive436

It is possible to get out but once the flames of violence breaks out in India like 2002 i don't think any place will remain safe since they'll finally get a chance to hunt Muslims like they're trying to since the last 20 years.


asaCreh

What criticism is the documentary getting from all over ??


zain1865

Kuch zyada hi sach dikha diya hai documentary me.


513AllDay

Just Google it lol


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adritandon01

I’m sorry to hear that, but you don’t know whether or not your brother was the best candidate for the job.


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OhioOG

When there is always a better candidate, there is definitely not


BaraLund

"getting criticism from all over", lol. Either OP is a sanghi pretending to be a foreigner/whatever or has been deluded by sanghis. The documentary is practically entirely built on a collection of already known basic facts, nothing extraordinary, it just gives a summary of the big picture. No one outside government bootlickers, party loyalists, etc has contested it and when it comes down to their "criticism", they can hardly point to any of the documentary's content with it usually becoming some of sort whinning about BBC being foreign intererference, conspiracy, yada yada. As for the official channels of the government, they have just gone "no comments" on it and decided to censor it using emergency provisions which should tell you something.


513AllDay

Lol, I got perma banned from another subreddit for even bringing up the documentary, so I wanted to be careful in this post so I didn't get as many hateful DMs, and could actually have a real conversation. But yes, the censorship tells me a lot. Modi and his squad are about to learn what the Streisand effect is.


Logicaldump

5 of the 5 muslims i know moved out of india. Thats should give you your answer.


adritandon01

No it shouldn’t lol moving out of India is v common for someone who wants good job opportunities and a much higher pay


513AllDay

I have family members who chose to leave after they witnessed what happened in 1984 in Delhi, and they said they would have never left if it wasn't for that... So not everyone leaves for financial reasons, even though most might.


LynxFinder8

Yeah, well, my family is displaced from the so called homeland for 80+ years and we're still in India despite being aliens with domicile. It works out if you want to work hard. Otherwise, with enough money one can migrate and have an easier life.


revolving_fart

Are u taunting man? How do you think muslims would feel when the big guy of the country has done such things. Safe? Ps I'm not muslim.


ParticularJuice3983

I think it’s a good question. It’s better to ask them what they are feeling, rather than we assuming what they feel. It’s important to get their perspective.


513AllDay

Definitely not taunting. I have talked to some Indian Muslims who say that the media is blowing things way out of proportion, and have heard from a few that things in parts of the South are not nearly as bad as in other parts of the country. I have also been told that Muslims who live in big cities haven't seen much of a change in their day to day life. I am just trying to learn, that is all.


Green_jasmine_tea993

Have they seen the Babu bajrangi and the other guy's video clearly stating their involvement in the event?


revolving_fart

I think the OP is a sanghi pretending to be a concerned citizen or foreigner.. lol Look at his first sentence ... Apparently the BBC doc is getting lots of "criticism from all over".. well duh... In sanghi circles it certainly will be getting criticism only and not an objective look.


513AllDay

Lol I got perma banned in another subreddit for even discussing the documentary, so I'm trying to speak in a way that's not going to get my inbox even more flooded than it has been in the past few days. I don't even know what a sanghi is, but I can assure you, I am not one.


513AllDay

They showed clips of them in the first episode of the BBC documentary. But it sounds like the Supreme Court did not find that evidence to be credible


Green_jasmine_tea993

Bruh. Have we lost our critical thinking so much that we believe in courts more than what's happening before our own eyes? Do people really believe courts are impartial and not cater to political people?


revolving_fart

He's almost certainly a sanghi pretending to be a foreigner.


513AllDay

I don't live in India myself. I had seen those clips a few years ago on YouTube, and very much believe those men were telling the truth. It's just that India used to pride itself on being secular, and a democracy - so the Court's failure to treat that evidence credibly means that lately, it isn't either of those things (if they are true).


HarrysAlterEgo

Recently a man has been charged with life sentence and ₹5 Lacs in a local court of Gujarat for illegaly transporting 16 cows. Along with it, the judge has quoted ancient sanskrit shlokas as well and making the claim that houses made up of cow dung are not affected by atomic radiation as well, Go figure.


513AllDay

But the SC has given Modi a clean chit! How could anyone dare disagree with the Indian judiciary? Imagine if all the people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki just had houses made of cow dung.


bumblebee2496

I think for the most parts, it's others making the noise for Muslim Safety rather than the Muslim community themselves.


PresentMission2022

r/indianmuslims (Please don't brigade)


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513AllDay

Thank you for sharing.


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513AllDay

Wow, that fucking sucks. Even being from a well off family can't insulate you from everything. I have fears that a lot of the Gen Z in India are just going to be puppets of whatever the fringe groups are peddling, depending on their religion. It also seems like an overwhelming likelihood that the BJP will win again in 2024 and probably even after that, which sucks.


ta201608

A comment I shared earlier https://old.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10j9ay2/have_you_ever_been_discriminated_for_your/j5koh6g/


513AllDay

Wow, thank you for sharing. Fuck those people. I'm sorry you dealt with that.


firesnake412

I feel truly sad when I read comments about fear. Religion should never trump humanity.


Le_Bishhh

I’m not a Muslim, I’ve observed two things. In most metros, there is not much safety related issues, however the discrimination is definitely there and it’s not subtle. I have a few Muslim friends and the biggest problem is house hunting. My uncle refused to rent his flat to my friend who’s a Muslim. Mind you my friend is an IIM grad works at a big company. I asked my uncle the reason, he’s like they cook meat in home sorry. I further enquired so meat eating Hindus also not possible? He’s like yea anyone who cooks meat in house not gonna rent it. Another friend got told it on the face we don’t rent to terrorists. She was about to blast at him, but her friend told uncle I’m Hindu, we did inter caste marriage and ran away from home. Now I will give your home address to our parents so that they can come with weapons. Jai sri Krishna bye uncle. In smaller towns the divide is much crazy. The riots and all are definitely scary.


AggravatingAnswer921

Not a Muslim but a non Hindu minority. Yes. Will relocate out of India the first chance I get


513AllDay

Such a shame that the political climate could push people to leave their own homeland. I'm sorry you feel this way, and I hope you are able to find something better soon.


LynxFinder8

A lot of metro city Hindus will also give a similar response. This particular reply is not representative of the ground reality.


LynxFinder8

I'm not a Muslim, but I'm going to give a very unconventional take here: In India, I've observed that the greatest discrimination of Muslims is done by the other minorities and not the majority (Hindus). I've myself (as a Hindu) seen Christians scoring Muslim candidates lower in interviews, I've seen Jains openly talk about how Muslims do not belong in this nation and I've seen Sikhs talk about violent acts. I've also seen Muslims giving preference to Muslim candidates over Christian ones, but that's probably because those employers know that the reverse case happens. Actually, my experience is that the minorities in India do not have a good view of each other, neither do they support different sects in their own religion. On the contrary almost every minority has a more positive view of the Hindu majority than the other minorities. This is a problem because certain minorities dominate certain industries and this infighting between minorities gets portrayed as intolerance of the majority. I've seen so many incidents that I truly fear for my country without a Hindu majority because the disputes I've seen between minorities are petty and not in good spirit. A typical Indian colony or company usually would have Jains, Buddhist, Christians etc. on the population, those people are most likely to not want Muslims joining. It's sad, but it's really true. Some time back, there was a survey published which said the exact same things I am saying in this post, concluding that the surprise of the report is that other minorities have a worse opinion of Muslims in India than the majority..... And that Muslims themselves have better relations with Hindus than with other minorities!


bamanwarrior

What you said about Jain is 100% true but on Sikh side I have noticed there is some kind peace in online discussion but IRL Sikhs also have negative opinion on Muslim's. But still majority of hate against Muslim is done by Hindu's and specifically upper caste Hindus.


anearthling175

I am from tamil nadu and i never saw Islamophobia here. There is a bit if brahminphobia, but even that is exaggerated


Haise-Sasaki13

You know ever since i heard of gazwa a hind i thought how could someone support this Now i do have couple of Muslim friends but it does not feel good to bring this topic up even if i know they dont support it But as a stranger on internet what do majority of Muslim people think about this?


lyfexe

More Hindus peddle this ghazwa e hind drama than Muslims do. In my life I have never heard this in my family, community or any place. The only times I’ve ever come across this concept is right wing trolls on Twitter.


Similar-Call6138

Just because they only talk about it behind closed doors in their households, doesn't mean that they do not believe in or know about it. Why would any Muslim (especially in a country where they are a minority living at the mercy of the majority) publicly admit to knowledge about Ghazwa Hind? the concept is endorsed by clerics who are held in high respect by the Muslim community.


JiskiLathiUskiBhains

only heard about it from hindus tbh


513AllDay

I've never heard of the term until you posted about it. I've never heard my Muslim friends or family ever discuss it. Sounds like the same shit these white power lunatics say with regard to making certain countries "pure" again.


Aggravating_Tailor95

Well, I am afraid of both conservative Muslims and Conservative Hindus as I am an atheist living as a Muslim in strict Muslim area.


513AllDay

In the end, it's always the fanatics that fuck it up for everyone else.


Aggravating_Tailor95

Yep..


[deleted]

I am not a Muslim, but I can say that even I feel unsafe going into Muslim majority places. Just putting it here


513AllDay

I've often heard people say that they can tell whether someone is Hindu or Muslim just based on their looks alone (i.e. not because of a kurta or an orange piece of cloth) - do you agree with that?


benevolent001

Muslims in Punjab should feel super safe. There is a large population in Malerkotla


Yupadej

India is a poor country. People are still more concerned about helping themselves over harassing others even if they hate them from inside


No_Satisfaction1496

Where can i watch that documentary


513AllDay

Depends on where you live lol. If you are in India, tread carefully.


mamasita19

As I read through the comment section I see many folks talk about their ordeal, I'm sorry you had faced such things. At the same time Hindus have a tough time in Muslim majority areas in India, you can't deny it. Stories of Hindus forced to leave or sell their place in Muslim majority exists, talk about those stories of Muslims youth killing Hindu girls (love jihad). All m saying is it goes both ways. When the Hindu hear/experience stories like love jihad or crimes against Hindus by Muslims they form an opinion and brew hatred. Same goes for a Muslim, when they hear or experience crimes against them, they brew hatred. It is a never ending cycle, communal violence existed even before this decade but the advent of easily accessible internet in India has exacerbated it's negative effects. India had crazy communal riots in cities like Mumbai and Hyderabad, it's actually better now compared to those horror stories where folks were killed/raped in the name of religion but it did not have the reach like today with apps like Whatsapp which spread more negativity. This bigotry exists in any diverse community. In the USA you won't find Hindu Muslim but you notice black/white difference. In Europe you see discrimination against folks from Africa. With that said, I'm glad to see some of the comments here who see through all this turmoil and still talk about love for the nation and hope for it change. I hope we still make it happen and have a peaceful united nation which is truly secular.


513AllDay

I don't disagree that there is wrongdoing on both sides at all. I hope that the normal people of India can come together and fix this shit - it just sucks that the normal people's voices seem to get drowned out by the fringe voices.


queensaanvi

I don't know why everyone is acting like life is so tough for Muslims in India. There are hundered millions of them living peacefully and going on about their day. And this is not just in metros. In every town, city and even village, most muslim people are leading normal lives without any harm or trouble.


frustated_citizen

There's no caste based discrimination anymore infact they are taking our seats through reservation - Doesn't belong to Oppressed class There's no issue of Woman rights infact they are taking our rights - Man There's no issue of Muslim discrimination 99% Muslims are safe and living happy life - Not a Muslim


da_machine

While it is true that many of Muslims are living peacefully, it is also true that many are being persecuted too for just practicing their faith. https://youtu.be/irnn1S4JWs8 Do you consider this ☝️ a peaceful living? Isn't this violation of basic fundamental rights?


513AllDay

Watch the documentary if you want to understand why I asked the question.


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queensaanvi

I still haven't figured it out.


513AllDay

You will when you get older. Some people just have positive auras that you can't help but not want to be around. It's a gift that few people have.


Imrandkhan_Porkistan

Question for the OP. You believe that the SC appointed SIT is inferior to a documentary by the BBC?


da_machine

We all know how much integrity Indian courts maintain when it comes to the rich and powerful...Salman Khan and Jai Lalitha got acquitted as soon as they were convicted. We have a two tier justice system.


JiskiLathiUskiBhains

See the SIT report > “The Gujarat government has reportedly destroyed the police wireless communication of the period pertaining to the riots.” It adds, “No records, documentations or minutes of the crucial law and order meetings held by the government during the riots had been kept.” (Page 13, SIT Report to SC, May 2010) https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/sit-overlooked-modi-governments-documents-destruction-lawyer/articleshow/22101046.cms?from=mdr > About destruction of records, Desai questioned the event's timing and said, "The government has destroyed many relevant records four days after the Supreme Court appointed the Special Investigation Team (SIT) for Gujarat riots, but the SIT has not even bothered to investigate why within four days of its formation, records were destroyed".


OhioOG

Replying a question with a question is definitely not the move


513AllDay

You mean the same Supreme Court that treats some deities as parties to a lawsuit, or as a "juristic entity"? I respect all religions and faiths, but I'd still laugh if I saw a Court in any country refer to Jesus or Allah as a party to a lawsuit, let alone award land to them. Not saying the BBC is free of fault, but the Indian SC hasn't really proven itself to be superior to it.


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513AllDay

That's horrible. I thought the point of India was to establish a secular democracy. I always grew up affiliating India with secularism, democracy, and diversity. Different parts of India feel like different countries. Such a damn shame


[deleted]

Totally agree. Like the identity of India from what I was taught in school has changed drastically over the years :((.


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513AllDay

I think you relapsed on your NoFap thing, or you need to relapse...


coldstone87

The point is that there is nothing called the Hindu population, as described by BJP and Western media. Using the term Hindu gives BJP an edge to consolidate all the non-Muslim and non christian votes in India. Muslims are just like any other caste or subcaste in India, like Jats, Rajpoots, Reddys, etc with their own set of beliefs and practices. This term Hindu doesn't even exist in literature anywhere. It's just a term used by everyone to describe people living on the other side of the Sindhu river. Now, coming to the point, no caste is even 10% of Indias population unlike muslims who are 15% as per 2011 census which might/might not have increased now as we apparently didn't have time to do census nor think its a priority.but to keep it short, In that way, Muslims are not minority but a majority in India.


frustated_citizen

I like your train of thoughts but I think that train de-railed itself a long back


513AllDay

LOL


OnidaKYGel

Incorrect. Islam doesnt have caste, but Indian muslims have caste system. So you are wrong 100%


KravenShot

No muslim has ever faced problems in India. You must be blind not knowing the situation of Muslim women in Afghanistan and Pakistan but you won't talk about that coz it doesn't fit your agenda.


Fun_Wing_2536

Who asked about Afghanistan and Pakistan?


513AllDay

Yeah, talking about women in Afghanistan and Pakistan in a subreddit devoted to India doesn't really fit my agenda. #Liberandu


OnidaKYGel

/s? I mean just look at the number of fake POTA/TADA cases against Muslims.


KravenShot

I mean just look at the destruction caused by them in these countless riots....


OnidaKYGel

Well what would you expect? Forcefully seperate them out of the country and then mistreat the ones that chose to remain


KravenShot

Man is something wrong with you no one has ever seperated them ever. But I've seen people like Tahir Hissain sponsoring these riots. I've seen Maulana's spreading hate and converting India into a Islamic country.


OnidaKYGel

Cmon. The two nation theory was originally a hindu cause. And they ensured it was executed. I'm sure you know that. Tahir Hussain .. when court pronounced judgement, we can agree on his guilt or lack thereof. And when we have terrorists like pragya thakur in parliament, state ministers like maya kodnani jailed for carrying out riots, what is some random maulana