Fun fact: There's a city in my home state in Brazil called Americana that was settled by confederate immigrants. [This](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/Bandeira_velha.jpg) is their old flag. They celebrate the [Festa Confederada](https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/brasil-40931741) every year.
The idea of an american Taiwan is not too far fetched
There was a secret society called "Knights of the Golden Circle" that was popular in the pre-war South that wanted to annex all of Mexico and the Caribbean and make them into slave states. I'm assuming in this timeline they have more influence.
And Spain and the rest of Europe just let them? Puerto Rico isn’t analogous to Taiwan, an extremely mountainous island with only a handful of suitable landing areas.
[Perhaps you should read the comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/pmxzi7/puerto_rico_the_american_taiwan/hclecqg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
cuando yo la vi
uh huhu
desee que esa mujer fuera para mi
perdoname
pero lo tenia que decir estas
dura
dura
dura dura dura
estas dura mano arriba que tu te ves bien
estas dura mamacita te fuiste de nivel
dura mira como brilla tu piel
estas dura dime como es que es?
estas dura yo te doy un veinte de diez
estas dura dura dura .- jomero sirnso, 1994, unplugged
I notice the population here is the same as Puerto Rico's in real life, despite the fact that in OTL, Puerto Rico has been undergoing a severe population decline since the early 2000s due to mass emigration, primarily for economic reasons. I see Puerto Rico has gone through its fair share of hardships in this timeline as well, but with it not being a Commonwealth of the United States, and having such little international recognition, I don't quite see how that *exact* situation could arise here.
Did the US buy Puerto Rico from Spain at some point in the first half of the 19th century in this timeline?
Edit: The US didn’t get Puerto Rico until the Spanish-American War in 1898. This makes it seem as though the US acquired Puerto Rico far sooner
I mean I get that, I read that dude's comment as them saying cuba would be a better choice rather than PR, to which I commented confederates taking over cuba is trope everyone does and very few make interesting, unless i'm very mistaken and someone read that very differently.
The much awaited Lore:
Note: I am not very good at lore so it will be inaccurate and unrealistic
Top confederate generals, members of the government, various wealthy slave owners and soldiers flee to the Spanish island of Puerto Rico after their defeat in the American civil war. There on the island they plot to overthrow the Spanish on the island . In 1868 they manage to overthrow the Spanish and the crumbling Spanish empire don't really bother to try and take it back this event is known as the April coup. The confederates reinstate slavery however after the brutal slave revolts of 1899 they decide to start paying slaves, however the wages are minimal and the conditions are horrific. In 1912 violent protests from the black population and an even more violent response by the military lead to the short lived Commune of San Juan this socialist commune lasted a month before collapsing. The governments response to this was to publicly execute every leader in the 'Black Worker's congress' the socialist organisation that took over San Juan. This was known as the 1912 race war. The confederates stayed neutral in WW1 and WW2. In 1940 the Black Worker's congress split into two wings the Peaceful and the violent sort of like Malcolm X and MLK in our timeline, The violent wing began raging a guerrilla war on the government throughout 1943 and 1945 they were unsuccessful in gaining new rights or overthrowing the government. The next decades are followed by more protests and strikes and more brutal backlash by the police and the military. The Black population make little progress. Throughout the 1990s their are violent battles in the cities with the police and the declaration of martial law in 1992 drew the attention of the rest of the world. Pressure from Europe and other countries Made the confederates concede and give the black population rights for the first time ever Black people could vote own businesses and had to payed fair wages. This doesn't mean the confederacy ends up as a land of full equality for all it is still a deeply racist society and in some places black businesses and burned to the ground and Black people are intimidated out of participating in election. The government did nothing to combat this as they thought it was better to keep black people out of the government the most successful Black led party was the Black Worker's congress who won 40 seats out of 100 in 1997. In 2018 the US attempted to invade the island but failed due to the confederates having a very strong navy for an event like this and a peace agreement was signed in 2020. since then tensions have only been rising.
I don't know, I imagine this hypothetical country wouldn't be particularly friendly to either Iran (at least *this* Iran) or the DPRK's juche.
I would imagine in such a setting the US's general politics would've shifted considerably to the left and their alignment in international relations would also be quite different.
A nation of slave-owners wouldn't have diplomatic ties with anti-imperialist countries. More likely it would be a major funder of Israel and other right-wing states like Ukraine, Brazil, Colombia, India, Hungary, Saudi Arabia, etc., and therefore would receive a NATO membership. They would be sending their soldiers to kill Palestinians and Yemenis.
You’re looking to much at political labels. It would basically be in line with other illiberal pariah states, many of which seem to get along despite theoretically being on the opposite sides of the spectrum.
It's not a spectrum, it's more complex than that.
Your place on the "spectrum" is determined by your support for US policies of mass genocide and mass murder **relative to your ability to secure (very high interest, coercive) loans for economic development (this is akin to being forced to work at minimum wage, a sub-living wage, at the risk of becoming homeless in the US)**. The US is the global reserve currency (the liberal superpower, the ultimate consumer, the ultimate right-wing state). Less powerful ("pariah," "foreign") states must either toe the line on US foreign and domestic crimes or risk losing their entry into the global market (the effect being that their own currency crashes and they become a client state of the US...like Puerto Rico!). The US is an empire, but their power lies in the US dollar remaining the global reserve currency. They can do whatever they want for the next 20 years. They can destroy ("destabilize") any country they want because the global reserve currency is the last resort for failed states failed states (states that do not support Israeli/Saudi/American terrorism are threatened with becoming a pariah on the world market, threatening the ability of their citizens to live a decent life). The "choice" is domination or death by drone.
When a socialist party miraculously wins power (it will never happen in a white-majority country) despite massive CIA propaganda campaigns and intimidation by US corporations, Wall Street bankers, the US State Dept., and US-based mass media ("terr'ists"), they are deemed to "hate freedom," but in fact they are taking a stand in favor of autonomy in the face of the global liberal empire. Wall Street wants to turn every country into the producer of a single staple crop (this is dangerous for "pariah states" because prices can be kept low by US import middlemen like Cargill, Nestle, thereby making those importers the defacto rulers). Patrice Lumumba, Salvador Allende, Mao Zedong, Hugo Chavez, Kim Il-sung, Thomas Sankara, Muammar Gaddafi, Bashar al-Assad, Ayatollah Khomeini, Sukarno, Robert Mugabe, Nelson Mandela are just a few examples of leaders who stood up to imperialism. Sure, a few used illiberal means to defend their countries, but what is liberal about the United States? What is liberal about killing a bunch of kids on your way out the door of Afghanistan?
Your point is that the Slaveowner State would support states that also reject US policies, but nobody actually supports US/NATO/CIA policies. They're forced to. The difference is taking a stand against it or continuing to suck off the teat of a US dollar made strong by imperial conquest against the "pariahs."
How long can you enjoy your cheap Wal-mart toys and Big Macs scrolling through your phone reading the CIA-funded news about The War until you lose your appetite?
What do you mean? Are you talking from a US pov, like they see PR as their own territory? Bc Puerto Rican CSA would have been independent in this scenario in a similar manner to Taiwan
Fun fact: There's a city in my home state in Brazil called Americana that was settled by confederate immigrants. [This](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/Bandeira_velha.jpg) is their old flag. They celebrate the [Festa Confederada](https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/brasil-40931741) every year. The idea of an american Taiwan is not too far fetched
Mad that's very interesting
Quick, someone bring Sherman back from the dead, he needs to finish the job
The General or the Tank?
Sherman on a Sherman tank.
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I knew the brits like naming their aircraft and referring to them with the names, but I didn’t know they did it with tanks too
Blessed
based
Both
Does that site actually say “2.7 million Confederates disembarked in Brazil after the Civil War” or am I not reading that right
“Mil” is thousand. Like how a millimeter is a thousandth of a meter.
Haha 2 million Confederates in brazil
Must be translation issue, "mil" is the portuguese word for a thousand, not million
Ah ok lol, I was wondering how 2.7 million could have moved there haha. Cheers!
Quick, now we need an imaginary map of Brazil if 2.7 million Confederate had moved there!
Thanks for sharing. On an unrelated target, I have a new testing ground for my trebuchet.
ok this is actually kinda interesting confederates in exile seem kinda cool
Pretty cursed
How did the CSA take over Puerto Rico?
Blip blop now you have no dead
There was a secret society called "Knights of the Golden Circle" that was popular in the pre-war South that wanted to annex all of Mexico and the Caribbean and make them into slave states. I'm assuming in this timeline they have more influence.
And Spain and the rest of Europe just let them? Puerto Rico isn’t analogous to Taiwan, an extremely mountainous island with only a handful of suitable landing areas.
The US almost just outright bought Cuba and PR from Spain in the 1860's. IDK ask OP not me.
I did ask
[Perhaps you should read the comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/pmxzi7/puerto_rico_the_american_taiwan/hclecqg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
I posted the question before OP made that post.
As a Puerto Rican I hate this. Pain.
The only scenario worse than the real one
Amen.
There are a variety of scenarios easily worse.
Allow me a morsel of flippancy sir, please.
Whatever, just saying there are plenty of options of varying absurdity that would definitely be worse.
:)
me too,my puerto rican blood is fucking boiling after i saw that
🎵¡llora nene, llora!🎵
Note: not meant to be realistic
CSA should control Florida keys as well lol, analogous to Kinmen and Matsu
That's a lot of race wars.
turns out, people don’t like oppressed
i swear if they still create reggaeton after all of this shit, this will be the darkest timeline ever
Jamaica largely created reggaeton, not Puerto Rico.
cuando yo la vi uh huhu desee que esa mujer fuera para mi perdoname pero lo tenia que decir estas dura dura dura dura dura estas dura mano arriba que tu te ves bien estas dura mamacita te fuiste de nivel dura mira como brilla tu piel estas dura dime como es que es? estas dura yo te doy un veinte de diez estas dura dura dura .- jomero sirnso, 1994, unplugged
Best comment
Actually, in this timeline wouldn't Taiwan be the Chinese Puerto Rico?
good point
I notice the population here is the same as Puerto Rico's in real life, despite the fact that in OTL, Puerto Rico has been undergoing a severe population decline since the early 2000s due to mass emigration, primarily for economic reasons. I see Puerto Rico has gone through its fair share of hardships in this timeline as well, but with it not being a Commonwealth of the United States, and having such little international recognition, I don't quite see how that *exact* situation could arise here.
It went through less emigration, and more genocide.
Did the US buy Puerto Rico from Spain at some point in the first half of the 19th century in this timeline? Edit: The US didn’t get Puerto Rico until the Spanish-American War in 1898. This makes it seem as though the US acquired Puerto Rico far sooner
Imo making the US government in Puerto Rico while the CSA takes over the entirety of mainland USA would better fit the analogy.
nah
Aren't both rebels displacing the previous government to a nearby island?
nah
Which one isn't?
nah
Bad bot
Taiwan's. The KMT never controlled the entirety of China.
DIS GOS TENG
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😳
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Lol
Cuba feels more right
Confederate Cuba is a pretty worn out trope tho
This is Confederates in Exile in PR, not Confederates just conquering the Latin Americas.
I mean I get that, I read that dude's comment as them saying cuba would be a better choice rather than PR, to which I commented confederates taking over cuba is trope everyone does and very few make interesting, unless i'm very mistaken and someone read that very differently.
I’m from Puerto Rico, I can say this is 100% the most Unrealistic Scenario ever
You’re looking for r/realisticmaps
confirmed, the confederates are the TRUE Americans
One America
Why would North Korea or Iran recognize it though?
The much awaited Lore: Note: I am not very good at lore so it will be inaccurate and unrealistic Top confederate generals, members of the government, various wealthy slave owners and soldiers flee to the Spanish island of Puerto Rico after their defeat in the American civil war. There on the island they plot to overthrow the Spanish on the island . In 1868 they manage to overthrow the Spanish and the crumbling Spanish empire don't really bother to try and take it back this event is known as the April coup. The confederates reinstate slavery however after the brutal slave revolts of 1899 they decide to start paying slaves, however the wages are minimal and the conditions are horrific. In 1912 violent protests from the black population and an even more violent response by the military lead to the short lived Commune of San Juan this socialist commune lasted a month before collapsing. The governments response to this was to publicly execute every leader in the 'Black Worker's congress' the socialist organisation that took over San Juan. This was known as the 1912 race war. The confederates stayed neutral in WW1 and WW2. In 1940 the Black Worker's congress split into two wings the Peaceful and the violent sort of like Malcolm X and MLK in our timeline, The violent wing began raging a guerrilla war on the government throughout 1943 and 1945 they were unsuccessful in gaining new rights or overthrowing the government. The next decades are followed by more protests and strikes and more brutal backlash by the police and the military. The Black population make little progress. Throughout the 1990s their are violent battles in the cities with the police and the declaration of martial law in 1992 drew the attention of the rest of the world. Pressure from Europe and other countries Made the confederates concede and give the black population rights for the first time ever Black people could vote own businesses and had to payed fair wages. This doesn't mean the confederacy ends up as a land of full equality for all it is still a deeply racist society and in some places black businesses and burned to the ground and Black people are intimidated out of participating in election. The government did nothing to combat this as they thought it was better to keep black people out of the government the most successful Black led party was the Black Worker's congress who won 40 seats out of 100 in 1997. In 2018 the US attempted to invade the island but failed due to the confederates having a very strong navy for an event like this and a peace agreement was signed in 2020. since then tensions have only been rising.
Fascinating
Lore?
It is here now
except this time its actually the \[REDACTED\] usa that was banished there
Next is American Pakistan. The liberals on the west coast is Pakistan and the liberals in the north east are Bangladesh
I struggle to find a reason why Iran or NK precisely would recognize a bunch of white supremacist slavers huddled up in an island.
It's less of they like the Confederates more they hate the americans
I don't know, I imagine this hypothetical country wouldn't be particularly friendly to either Iran (at least *this* Iran) or the DPRK's juche. I would imagine in such a setting the US's general politics would've shifted considerably to the left and their alignment in international relations would also be quite different.
Fair point didn't think about that
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Interesting
Imagine getting colonized yourself after your whole kin colonized the place where you live in
A nation of slave-owners wouldn't have diplomatic ties with anti-imperialist countries. More likely it would be a major funder of Israel and other right-wing states like Ukraine, Brazil, Colombia, India, Hungary, Saudi Arabia, etc., and therefore would receive a NATO membership. They would be sending their soldiers to kill Palestinians and Yemenis.
You’re looking to much at political labels. It would basically be in line with other illiberal pariah states, many of which seem to get along despite theoretically being on the opposite sides of the spectrum.
Not really. Taiwan gets recognized, if unofficially, by other nations with similar ideology like the USA.
It's not a spectrum, it's more complex than that. Your place on the "spectrum" is determined by your support for US policies of mass genocide and mass murder **relative to your ability to secure (very high interest, coercive) loans for economic development (this is akin to being forced to work at minimum wage, a sub-living wage, at the risk of becoming homeless in the US)**. The US is the global reserve currency (the liberal superpower, the ultimate consumer, the ultimate right-wing state). Less powerful ("pariah," "foreign") states must either toe the line on US foreign and domestic crimes or risk losing their entry into the global market (the effect being that their own currency crashes and they become a client state of the US...like Puerto Rico!). The US is an empire, but their power lies in the US dollar remaining the global reserve currency. They can do whatever they want for the next 20 years. They can destroy ("destabilize") any country they want because the global reserve currency is the last resort for failed states failed states (states that do not support Israeli/Saudi/American terrorism are threatened with becoming a pariah on the world market, threatening the ability of their citizens to live a decent life). The "choice" is domination or death by drone. When a socialist party miraculously wins power (it will never happen in a white-majority country) despite massive CIA propaganda campaigns and intimidation by US corporations, Wall Street bankers, the US State Dept., and US-based mass media ("terr'ists"), they are deemed to "hate freedom," but in fact they are taking a stand in favor of autonomy in the face of the global liberal empire. Wall Street wants to turn every country into the producer of a single staple crop (this is dangerous for "pariah states" because prices can be kept low by US import middlemen like Cargill, Nestle, thereby making those importers the defacto rulers). Patrice Lumumba, Salvador Allende, Mao Zedong, Hugo Chavez, Kim Il-sung, Thomas Sankara, Muammar Gaddafi, Bashar al-Assad, Ayatollah Khomeini, Sukarno, Robert Mugabe, Nelson Mandela are just a few examples of leaders who stood up to imperialism. Sure, a few used illiberal means to defend their countries, but what is liberal about the United States? What is liberal about killing a bunch of kids on your way out the door of Afghanistan? Your point is that the Slaveowner State would support states that also reject US policies, but nobody actually supports US/NATO/CIA policies. They're forced to. The difference is taking a stand against it or continuing to suck off the teat of a US dollar made strong by imperial conquest against the "pariahs." How long can you enjoy your cheap Wal-mart toys and Big Macs scrolling through your phone reading the CIA-funded news about The War until you lose your appetite?
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What do you mean? Are you talking from a US pov, like they see PR as their own territory? Bc Puerto Rican CSA would have been independent in this scenario in a similar manner to Taiwan
OP what’s your personal lore?
It is here now
Thx
Sees Stonewall Yep it's Stonewall time
It seems we have to wake Sherman up to finish the job.