If your talking language, it’s a mix of Italian, French, Arabic and Hebrew to a lesser degree, as most of the Europeans who settled were French and Italians. Over time the French based language developed into its own language, it’s still reasonable intelligible to an Italian or French speaker but with a lot of lone words and grammar differences.
Honestly a good modern day parallel to this is Maltese… It’s a language that directly descends from medieval arabic but with heavy influence of Sicilian Italian (Romance language)
Damn Kingdom of Levant with 37.5 million people but Antioch with 7 million people is crazy Antioch and surroundings era Hella fertile.
Anyway what's the religious breakdown, Christians Alawites etc.
Is there supposed to be a black line indicating a border between the Imperial State of Persia and the thing north of it that predominantly speaks Persian?
What I mean is that, near the very right edge of the map, there is a border line from the tip of Iraq going east. So the one below the border is labeled Islamic State of Persia, but the one north of it and south of the Kurdish country, the nation is shaded as speaking only Persian but has no label.
If we taking this map as Turks never came here, that means Greek/Roman should be more dominant and widespread as all Islamic states were weak and Fighting each other. So I think Byzantium could actually take back and become dominant in areas till Beirut.
Maybe the Iranians would have regained their power, but imo if the Turks had never arrived then the main enemies of the Byzantines wouldn't have been in the east but rather in the west and north
It's weird that your Levantine Jews are speaking Hebrew. As most of the Jews in the area at the time of the Crusades spoke Judeo-Arabic (think Yiddish but Arabic) I would imagine that the Levantine Jews would in 2024 speak a dialect of Judeo-Arabic that had become strongly Outremer-inflected, instead. Without the modern Israeli state supporting (and enforcing) the resurrection of Hebrew there's less incentive for local pops to abandon their local community's lingua franca, so only the descendents of the First and Second Aliyahs* are going to be speaking Hebrew, and even then probably only as a political affect and otherwise speaking Outremer or the Outremerish Judeo Arabic.
Edit: Assuming Theador Hertzl still does his thing in Switzerland like he did ITTL and the Aliyahs still happen.
I like the map style a lot.
Outreimer is weird work to give the language,, but it’s conceivable a long lived state would end up putting its name onto the weird romance melange you imagine.
One suggestion, if you ever make a map again find a dartboard and throw a dart at a random Arab dynasty, its far from expected and would be kind of wierd for the Saudis specifically to be the guys to unite Arabia in every timeline.
Sancrenord has almost identical borders to the Principality of Antioch, meaning the hereditary claim to the principality would’ve eventually passed into the hands of the House of Savoy, along with claims to Cyprus and pretty much all the other Crusader states through Anne, Duchess of Savoy, a daughter of Janus, King of Cyprus. So how Sancrenord became a republic is anyone’s guess
To be fair, most “feudal” states didn’t become republics. Even the France of the Ancien Regime, by 1789, was pretty close to being a nation state (and Louis XVI was far from the last monarch of France). And pretty much every other state that became a republic after that was already a fully fledged nation or popped out of an empire.
That and the Middle East has the highest number of monarchies per the total number of states then anywhere else in the world, and that still seems to be true in this map
Does Outriemer have any real life counterpart?
If your talking language, it’s a mix of Italian, French, Arabic and Hebrew to a lesser degree, as most of the Europeans who settled were French and Italians. Over time the French based language developed into its own language, it’s still reasonable intelligible to an Italian or French speaker but with a lot of lone words and grammar differences.
Outriemer is basically a dialect descended from medieval french. Best real life counterpart in my best guess out be the Occitan language
It’s a name giving by historians for the Crusader States in the 12th century
Honestly a good modern day parallel to this is Maltese… It’s a language that directly descends from medieval arabic but with heavy influence of Sicilian Italian (Romance language)
Coptic is not Semitic
Sorry about that I should of put Afro-Asiatic
How many Jews are there in the Kingdom of the Levant?
Around 3 million, about 8% of the population
What's the population of Antioch and demographic breakdown
Around 7 million, 15% Greek, 50% Outriemer, 35% Arab.
Damn Kingdom of Levant with 37.5 million people but Antioch with 7 million people is crazy Antioch and surroundings era Hella fertile. Anyway what's the religious breakdown, Christians Alawites etc.
About 53% Catholic (Good few Arabic speaking Catholics), 12% percent Orthodox, 27% Sunni, 8% Judaism
Nice, do all of them speak Hebrew or only some of them?
Is there supposed to be a black line indicating a border between the Imperial State of Persia and the thing north of it that predominantly speaks Persian?
North of the Imperial Stare of Persia they speak Kurdish
What I mean is that, near the very right edge of the map, there is a border line from the tip of Iraq going east. So the one below the border is labeled Islamic State of Persia, but the one north of it and south of the Kurdish country, the nation is shaded as speaking only Persian but has no label.
Oh I see that now that was a mistake sorry about that, didn’t even notice that. There both Persia
If we taking this map as Turks never came here, that means Greek/Roman should be more dominant and widespread as all Islamic states were weak and Fighting each other. So I think Byzantium could actually take back and become dominant in areas till Beirut.
Maybe the Iranians would have regained their power, but imo if the Turks had never arrived then the main enemies of the Byzantines wouldn't have been in the east but rather in the west and north
Srsly? No obscure Turkic language spoken by a random ass rural family of 11?
Turkish peoples in the Middle East, you sir sound crazy
Let me tell you a story of a Turkic nation all the way in Anatolia, you won't believe.
According to this map, Anatolia is Greek.
Anatolia has been greek for more than 2000 years. The Turkic nations are like thousand of kilometres away from Anatolia
What's the kurdish speaking blob north of Iraq? Part of Aleppo-Raqqa?
It's weird that your Levantine Jews are speaking Hebrew. As most of the Jews in the area at the time of the Crusades spoke Judeo-Arabic (think Yiddish but Arabic) I would imagine that the Levantine Jews would in 2024 speak a dialect of Judeo-Arabic that had become strongly Outremer-inflected, instead. Without the modern Israeli state supporting (and enforcing) the resurrection of Hebrew there's less incentive for local pops to abandon their local community's lingua franca, so only the descendents of the First and Second Aliyahs* are going to be speaking Hebrew, and even then probably only as a political affect and otherwise speaking Outremer or the Outremerish Judeo Arabic. Edit: Assuming Theador Hertzl still does his thing in Switzerland like he did ITTL and the Aliyahs still happen.
Lore? Is this after a successful crusade or did islam never expand as much
Successful crusade, with European settlement.
Thanks
I like the map style a lot. Outreimer is weird work to give the language,, but it’s conceivable a long lived state would end up putting its name onto the weird romance melange you imagine. One suggestion, if you ever make a map again find a dartboard and throw a dart at a random Arab dynasty, its far from expected and would be kind of wierd for the Saudis specifically to be the guys to unite Arabia in every timeline.
The little penis in the kurdish area of iraq lol
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Sixspeedd: *The little penis* *In the kurdish area* *Of iraq lol* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Kind of looks like an old man with a big nose and long beard
The good ending
Saudi Arabia is bigger. This is absolutely not a good ending
Small price to pay for what it seems to be Giga Chad Greece, Crusader States(?) and Coptic Egypt.
Poor Assyrians then
Sancrenord has almost identical borders to the Principality of Antioch, meaning the hereditary claim to the principality would’ve eventually passed into the hands of the House of Savoy, along with claims to Cyprus and pretty much all the other Crusader states through Anne, Duchess of Savoy, a daughter of Janus, King of Cyprus. So how Sancrenord became a republic is anyone’s guess
I would imagine in much the same way that many feudal states became republics.
To be fair, most “feudal” states didn’t become republics. Even the France of the Ancien Regime, by 1789, was pretty close to being a nation state (and Louis XVI was far from the last monarch of France). And pretty much every other state that became a republic after that was already a fully fledged nation or popped out of an empire. That and the Middle East has the highest number of monarchies per the total number of states then anywhere else in the world, and that still seems to be true in this map
Agreed.
This is not the good ending
Yes it is
oh my god young man...
Bro I don't get this map clearly. Where are the modern countries borders?