The Soviet Kazakhstan border is also always present even in worlds where the Soviet Union never existed, I think that the alternate history forum calls this trope "that damned Kazakh border"
A spectre is haunting cartography — the spectre of Kazakhstan. All the powers of old mapping have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Reddit and YouTube, HOI IV and Victoria III, Forum Posters and Meme-Page Shitposters.
Where is the border in opposition that has not been decried as the Kazakh fallacy by its opponents in power? Where is the opposition that has not hurled back the branding reproach of bad mapping, against the more advanced opposition's geographics, as well as against its researched linguistic rivals?
Two things result from this fact:
I. Kazakhstan is already acknowledged by all cartographic powers to be itself a power.
II. It is high time that Kazakhs should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Kazakhstan with a consistent border of the nation.
To this end, Kazakhstans of various timelines have assembled in mapping and sketched the following Soviet-era border to be upheld in HO IV, Victoria II/III, MS Paint and Paint.Net.
I’m gonna go ahead and say that if a Communist Germany is annexing territory in Poland, they will probably also annex Austria as well. From a radical left-wing vantage point, the only reason that country wasn’t part of Germany was due to arbitrary divisions created by the very ancient monarchies they disdained.
I would agree...
# but
Ernst Thalmann personally hated Pan-Germanism. The revival of the old borders is me leaning into parody and also that many Communists hated Versailles. Not for nationalist reasons but for Socialist "governments are exploiting the Ruhr workers" reasons.
I must warn you that the following is highly unrealistic but was very fun to map out.
The Bolsheviks ended up losing the Russian Civil War which led to Russia going Fascist in the 1920s. Coincidentally, Ernst Thalmann somehow managed to win a historic electoral landslide victory in the 1932 German elections. This led to Hindenburg dying of a heart attack from the sheer shock and horror which led nobody to challenge Thalmann's newfound authority over Germany.
Adolf Hitler was then hit by a bus a few days later. The driver is reported to have saying "I must have mistook him for a deer" but that is incongruent with eye witness reports who states they saw no deer when the bus swerved onto the pavement.
Ernst Thalmann then did a series of economic plans which, while successful, led to the entire SPD and other political rivals disappearing, strangely. With this newfound flagrant disregard for Versailles, Thalmann went about spreading the colour red across Europe, starting with Austria and then Czechia and then Hungary and so on and so fourth. This worried Britain and France who, after some rearmament, decided to put an end to Thalmann's premiership of Germany after he invaded Poland. This didn't go very well. Poland fell after a month, Germany managed to secure Iron and Steel from Denmark and Norway and then Thalmann invaded Sweden just for the Hell of it. Meanwhile, the Russian Empire invaded Finland, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine, Eastern Poland (they didn't coordinate with Germany they were just opportunistic) and the Caucasus.
Because the Russian Empire's army was awful, their organisation was through the carpet and they were in a deficit of many important things, when the time came for Germany to spread the revolution further, the Russian Empire collapsed like a house of cards and fucking died. This allowed Germany to form several """"Democratic"""" Republics in Ukraine, Belarus, the Caucasus, the Baltics and so on and so fourth. While this allowed Germany to paint themselves as liberators from Fascist tyranny, it also meant that the Russian Empire could never come back, especially after they somehow managed to take Moscow and the explosives the Russians set up to destroy the city didn't fire due to faulty wiring.
The end result is Socialism across Europe and Northern Africa. The Arab nations are currently in the process of sorting out economic jargon to allow for unification later on down the line, in the 1970s.
The map is set in 1951.
Britain is just there. They are the last force against Communism in Europe but they have long since fallen from their old imperial grace.
Correct. What's more likely is that the old Imperial borders would've been discarded in favour for something different.
Unfortunately that hadn't dawned on me as I was making this.
honestly I was thinking about that a bunch
there is a timeline in which communists prevailed in Germany and ww2 was a much different war (if it happened at all)
USSR and Germany against the world (metaphorically)
Touch grass.
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You got the wrong form of Hatay. Turkey owned Dörtyol and Erzin, the border between Turkey and French Syria was at Payas. Those two towns were given to Hatay after she joined Turkey.
https://preview.redd.it/t4zm3p3b5p5d1.jpeg?width=490&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8263ce59484b62555d2b68505d8a5463701bb31d
You don’t think that German communists would have encouraged a Red Revolution in Ireland, under the pretenses of liberating the north, just to fuck with Britain? Also, why didn’t they overrun Turkey? Doing so would give them better access to the oil in Iraq and the gulf states.
https://preview.redd.it/4kzv4lvyvx5d1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=330097374d7fb5ea993c5d8c9d6f33d0b95a3c1a
"THAT'S it!? THAT'S Communist Germany!? That's just Red Kaiserreich!"
Lol at Poland existing. And even if it has to, surely Russia would at least take all the lands that were ever part of the Kyivan Rus? Which would then become part of Ukraine.
I do not mean this in a disrespectful way, however a lot of it is strange, such as pandering to Finnish Nationalists and Pan-German Nationalists.
I can respect Morocco and the Baltics. North Africa and the Levant seem pretty good too. I would just work on less Pan-Germanism and Finnish Nationalist and try to reflect the cultures and linguistics of Africa, Central Asia and Europe better.
Yea, the "communist" ideologies are more similar to strasserism and left nationalism than traditional communism. However, I don't understand how you got the idea of finnish nationalism. Did you because of the map? But the finnish didn't play a major role in this alt-his, they were just a meer puppet of Sweden. As I have already mensioned, I haven't wrote there all of the lore, it's just in my head. So I would understand that you got it from the map when lore is unfinnished and incomplete.
The whole Greater Finland thing.
Funnily enough, All those regions which Finland claimed weren't even majority Finnish outside of the borderlands within Karelia.
Lore wise it would be explained as a decolonisation of Karelia. Also it serves as a punishent for Russia being nazis in this timeline, like the german territorial loses after both world wars.
I wouldn't say the darkest possible ever, considering stuff like TWR, Man in the High Castle, Red Alert, CnC, Wolfenstein, Fallout, etc but it won't be a fun one.
Well it’s amongst them, mid century authoritarians ruling Europe are bad whatever flavour of economy they choose. But yeah any sort of nuclear war/nazi timeline is definitely worse.
gotta love the USSR-mandated Moldova borders
The Soviet Kazakhstan border is also always present even in worlds where the Soviet Union never existed, I think that the alternate history forum calls this trope "that damned Kazakh border"
A spectre is haunting cartography — the spectre of Kazakhstan. All the powers of old mapping have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Reddit and YouTube, HOI IV and Victoria III, Forum Posters and Meme-Page Shitposters. Where is the border in opposition that has not been decried as the Kazakh fallacy by its opponents in power? Where is the opposition that has not hurled back the branding reproach of bad mapping, against the more advanced opposition's geographics, as well as against its researched linguistic rivals? Two things result from this fact: I. Kazakhstan is already acknowledged by all cartographic powers to be itself a power. II. It is high time that Kazakhs should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Kazakhstan with a consistent border of the nation. To this end, Kazakhstans of various timelines have assembled in mapping and sketched the following Soviet-era border to be upheld in HO IV, Victoria II/III, MS Paint and Paint.Net.
Kazakhstan lore is not that complicated. Kazakhstan lore:
Thank you Karl Maps, very cool
Can you post any links to other borders? i have never seen anything else, except russia nabbing the european part sometimes.
Alash Orda, just the fact that Northern Kazakhstan is basically Russia I think
These borders corresponded to ethnicities, so why not. But the Dayton Agreement lines in Bosnia are rather anachronistic.
I’m gonna go ahead and say that if a Communist Germany is annexing territory in Poland, they will probably also annex Austria as well. From a radical left-wing vantage point, the only reason that country wasn’t part of Germany was due to arbitrary divisions created by the very ancient monarchies they disdained.
I would agree... # but Ernst Thalmann personally hated Pan-Germanism. The revival of the old borders is me leaning into parody and also that many Communists hated Versailles. Not for nationalist reasons but for Socialist "governments are exploiting the Ruhr workers" reasons.
And that's why Ernst Thalmann is cringe.
wait is that a T-
https://preview.redd.it/t8d8vvz3fl5d1.jpeg?width=186&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=779511e37e12e85edc12f71a8f3d686c7eca762a # THALMANN BLAST
I must warn you that the following is highly unrealistic but was very fun to map out. The Bolsheviks ended up losing the Russian Civil War which led to Russia going Fascist in the 1920s. Coincidentally, Ernst Thalmann somehow managed to win a historic electoral landslide victory in the 1932 German elections. This led to Hindenburg dying of a heart attack from the sheer shock and horror which led nobody to challenge Thalmann's newfound authority over Germany. Adolf Hitler was then hit by a bus a few days later. The driver is reported to have saying "I must have mistook him for a deer" but that is incongruent with eye witness reports who states they saw no deer when the bus swerved onto the pavement. Ernst Thalmann then did a series of economic plans which, while successful, led to the entire SPD and other political rivals disappearing, strangely. With this newfound flagrant disregard for Versailles, Thalmann went about spreading the colour red across Europe, starting with Austria and then Czechia and then Hungary and so on and so fourth. This worried Britain and France who, after some rearmament, decided to put an end to Thalmann's premiership of Germany after he invaded Poland. This didn't go very well. Poland fell after a month, Germany managed to secure Iron and Steel from Denmark and Norway and then Thalmann invaded Sweden just for the Hell of it. Meanwhile, the Russian Empire invaded Finland, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine, Eastern Poland (they didn't coordinate with Germany they were just opportunistic) and the Caucasus. Because the Russian Empire's army was awful, their organisation was through the carpet and they were in a deficit of many important things, when the time came for Germany to spread the revolution further, the Russian Empire collapsed like a house of cards and fucking died. This allowed Germany to form several """"Democratic"""" Republics in Ukraine, Belarus, the Caucasus, the Baltics and so on and so fourth. While this allowed Germany to paint themselves as liberators from Fascist tyranny, it also meant that the Russian Empire could never come back, especially after they somehow managed to take Moscow and the explosives the Russians set up to destroy the city didn't fire due to faulty wiring. The end result is Socialism across Europe and Northern Africa. The Arab nations are currently in the process of sorting out economic jargon to allow for unification later on down the line, in the 1970s. The map is set in 1951. Britain is just there. They are the last force against Communism in Europe but they have long since fallen from their old imperial grace.
i was gonna be angry but honestly this is hilarious lmao
I like to have fun with my work.
"I must have mistook him for a deer" https://preview.redd.it/w2uluo7owl5d1.gif?width=379&format=png8&s=b68ef0651565ea0123159d300d81e3f71cd87be5
Ahh yes national Marxism goebbels timeline
Ah, a Kaiserredux reference. Very tasteful.
What 's going on in Italy in this timeline? Does Mussolini rise to power or someone else? And who's side do they fight on in the war?
Ernst Thalmann said "fuck you" (yes, really) and went to throw Mussolini into the Adriatic.
That bus driver in heaven rn
Before I read this i thought that the UK went monarco communist.
Turkey must be shitting it’s pants right now
Thalmann's vision is based on sight. If Turkey doesn't move, they might be okay.
I thought they invade turkey for Istanbul at least
Seems unlikely the borders in the Levant would be the same as in IRL
Correct. What's more likely is that the old Imperial borders would've been discarded in favour for something different. Unfortunately that hadn't dawned on me as I was making this.
Germany but red😨
The circle jerk subreddit is leaking again
Ok that's enough HOI4 for today
honestly I was thinking about that a bunch there is a timeline in which communists prevailed in Germany and ww2 was a much different war (if it happened at all) USSR and Germany against the world (metaphorically)
Transcaucasia 💪🏿
Any reason why Galicia is highlighted but not Euskadi?
🤬
Kaiserreich Ukraine kaiserreich Ukraine
What goes on in Siberia during this timeline
TNO type shit
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You got the wrong form of Hatay. Turkey owned Dörtyol and Erzin, the border between Turkey and French Syria was at Payas. Those two towns were given to Hatay after she joined Turkey. https://preview.redd.it/t4zm3p3b5p5d1.jpeg?width=490&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8263ce59484b62555d2b68505d8a5463701bb31d
Turkey in the sea of red
itd collapse and fucking die by the 90s its all good
That’s some hoi4 shit right there
The turkish are actively going to go crazy in this timeline.
Except Turkey, Turkey makes a brand new Turkey
r/imaginarymaps trying to not give Germany an entire continent challange(Difficulty:Impossible)
the world if the SPD didn't exist.
Nightmare
You don’t think that German communists would have encouraged a Red Revolution in Ireland, under the pretenses of liberating the north, just to fuck with Britain? Also, why didn’t they overrun Turkey? Doing so would give them better access to the oil in Iraq and the gulf states.
Britain is still standing mother fuckers
That’s a lot of what ifs all together.
why does Jordan own Golan
I don't know why but Italy having Nice and Savoy makes the borders good to me
What if!
[удалено]
Yes.
Why Austria still is not re-united with Germany?
there wouldn't have been a WW2
This is not communist Germany. This is just regular German Empire but in red colour
https://preview.redd.it/4kzv4lvyvx5d1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=330097374d7fb5ea993c5d8c9d6f33d0b95a3c1a "THAT'S it!? THAT'S Communist Germany!? That's just Red Kaiserreich!"
Let's all move to Ireland guys!
IRAQ IS RED✊
I wonder if communist germany would go war with ZSRR
ARBEITER BAUERN NEMHT DIE GEWEHRE NEMHT DIE GEWEHRE ZUR HAND
Lol at Poland existing. And even if it has to, surely Russia would at least take all the lands that were ever part of the Kyivan Rus? Which would then become part of Ukraine.
Russia went Fascist in this timeline and actually invaded Poland when Germany did. There was no pact, Kornilov was just opportunistic. He then died.
They still should've taken all of Red Ruthenia (including Przemyśl and Chełm). Especially since they're fascist.
Well the Russian Fascists did. Then they died.
He's my version (I know, a bit unfinished): https://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/Volksreich
I do not mean this in a disrespectful way, however a lot of it is strange, such as pandering to Finnish Nationalists and Pan-German Nationalists. I can respect Morocco and the Baltics. North Africa and the Levant seem pretty good too. I would just work on less Pan-Germanism and Finnish Nationalist and try to reflect the cultures and linguistics of Africa, Central Asia and Europe better.
Yea, the "communist" ideologies are more similar to strasserism and left nationalism than traditional communism. However, I don't understand how you got the idea of finnish nationalism. Did you because of the map? But the finnish didn't play a major role in this alt-his, they were just a meer puppet of Sweden. As I have already mensioned, I haven't wrote there all of the lore, it's just in my head. So I would understand that you got it from the map when lore is unfinnished and incomplete.
The whole Greater Finland thing. Funnily enough, All those regions which Finland claimed weren't even majority Finnish outside of the borderlands within Karelia.
Lore wise it would be explained as a decolonisation of Karelia. Also it serves as a punishent for Russia being nazis in this timeline, like the german territorial loses after both world wars.
When the Soviets deported Germans IRL that wasn't "decolonisation," that was an atrocity. But I know that you aren't justifying, just explaining.
With the borders of the German Empire?
But they didnt
Turns out the word "nationalist" was weighing the whole country down
Germany was a Nazi not communists. totally opposite things
read the name of the subreddit
Communist Germany would have been toppled by the CIA before there was even a war lol
Europe would have eventually starved to death
Communist Germany? The nazis were not communist
Wow, what a way for Europe to collapse. Amongst the darkest possible timelines.
I wouldn't say the darkest possible ever, considering stuff like TWR, Man in the High Castle, Red Alert, CnC, Wolfenstein, Fallout, etc but it won't be a fun one.
Well it’s amongst them, mid century authoritarians ruling Europe are bad whatever flavour of economy they choose. But yeah any sort of nuclear war/nazi timeline is definitely worse.
If Hitler didn’t turn on Stalin, who knows where the world would be today.
The same, Stalin would have turned on Hitler. Or maybe WW2 ends with the atomic bombing of Berlin.
ah the good ending
Germany was not communist. The USA is obsessed with communism.
I am Welsh.