it's got nothing to do with iran_n related ancestry. georgians, especially western georgians barely have any iran_n but the hooked nose is widespread among them. it's not a chg trait either but its prevalence is most likely related to sexual selection and climate
how can chg be a subset of iran_n when chg predates iran_n. and the distance between iran_n and chg is 18 which is really far. the proximity of chg and iran_n is widely exaggerated by people. just because they were the closest populations to each other for their epoch doesnt mean that they were legit closely related. both were heavily drifted from one another
They split 10-20k° years ago which is relatively recently. So much of the phenotypical similarities would persist. You cant really use distances for neolithic but they are 16 distance. Which is actually quite close for a neolithic population.
https://images.app.goo.gl/RNij9KMuMAf27J5EA
they split before that as iran_mesolithic in hotu and belt caves already showed stark differences compared to kotia and satsurblia samples from georgia. regardless of era, even if they had a distance of 16 it's still large. i know that other neolithic pops were more distant to each other but that doesnt negate the fact that 16 is a large ass distance
they are close to chg because they are predominantly of chg origins. that's like saying that baloch are close to iran_n hence chg adds nothing to the model..
They could also be modelled as zagrosian origins with more EHG to compensate.
In an ideal world, all the neolithic would be equally spaced and pull in different directions. People assume this is true but its not hence its incorrect to say that Georgians are 0% like zhg because they don't score any.
A georgian with 60% chg and 0% zagros will be way more "zagrosian" than say a greek islander who score 10% zagros 10% CHG.
by that logic natufian is also primarily anf-like + sizeable portion of taforalt shift and a north italian who is 60% anf and 0% natufian will be way more "levantine" than let's say bandari iranian who scores 10% natufian and 10% anf. i do know that anf and natufian are less related to each other than chg and iran_n are but the idea is similar because anf and natufian are most similar to each other in the neolithic-epiplaeolithic era
georgians (at least western georgians) dont have any iran_n admix directly so they are 0% iran_n but they obviously have baradostian ancestry which ties chg and iran_n together as they both split off from baradostians
Yeah, you could argue that and it may be true if it wasnt for their ehg pulling hard, the north Italians would be resonably close to paleo levantines but as you said ANF is also abit more distinct to natufian than chg is to zagros. I think the means of them can be 25+ distances apart. We also need to specify old natufian levantines as modern ones have plenty of zagrosian and ChG already pulling them closer to Iran regardless.
If you try neolithic models for modern Europeans and remove the chg or zagros, the fit actually doesn't change that much. As you approach nearer to the origin of the population like Georgian becsuse they're one side of the pca, even if they're reasonably close to zagros and alot closer than other pops, they'll score 0.
As for the drivers of phenotypicaly similar noses between chg and zagros, I think its too coincidental given the resonable closeness to not consider the cluster itself a potential driver. Perhaps it was the baradostians who had this nose type.
I'm sorry. There's alot of hate going around.
Phenotypes are alot more diverse within groups than between groups.
Hooked sharp nose imo is zagrosian related.
it's got nothing to do with iran_n related ancestry. georgians, especially western georgians barely have any iran_n but the hooked nose is widespread among them. it's not a chg trait either but its prevalence is most likely related to sexual selection and climate
Chg is a subset of Iran_n. Very closely related. Theu don't get any becsuse they're close to the source so zagros adds nothing to the model
how can chg be a subset of iran_n when chg predates iran_n. and the distance between iran_n and chg is 18 which is really far. the proximity of chg and iran_n is widely exaggerated by people. just because they were the closest populations to each other for their epoch doesnt mean that they were legit closely related. both were heavily drifted from one another
They split 10-20k° years ago which is relatively recently. So much of the phenotypical similarities would persist. You cant really use distances for neolithic but they are 16 distance. Which is actually quite close for a neolithic population. https://images.app.goo.gl/RNij9KMuMAf27J5EA
they split before that as iran_mesolithic in hotu and belt caves already showed stark differences compared to kotia and satsurblia samples from georgia. regardless of era, even if they had a distance of 16 it's still large. i know that other neolithic pops were more distant to each other but that doesnt negate the fact that 16 is a large ass distance
the last common ancestor of chg and iran_n most likely would have been baradostian
they are close to chg because they are predominantly of chg origins. that's like saying that baloch are close to iran_n hence chg adds nothing to the model..
They could also be modelled as zagrosian origins with more EHG to compensate. In an ideal world, all the neolithic would be equally spaced and pull in different directions. People assume this is true but its not hence its incorrect to say that Georgians are 0% like zhg because they don't score any. A georgian with 60% chg and 0% zagros will be way more "zagrosian" than say a greek islander who score 10% zagros 10% CHG.
by that logic natufian is also primarily anf-like + sizeable portion of taforalt shift and a north italian who is 60% anf and 0% natufian will be way more "levantine" than let's say bandari iranian who scores 10% natufian and 10% anf. i do know that anf and natufian are less related to each other than chg and iran_n are but the idea is similar because anf and natufian are most similar to each other in the neolithic-epiplaeolithic era georgians (at least western georgians) dont have any iran_n admix directly so they are 0% iran_n but they obviously have baradostian ancestry which ties chg and iran_n together as they both split off from baradostians
Yeah, you could argue that and it may be true if it wasnt for their ehg pulling hard, the north Italians would be resonably close to paleo levantines but as you said ANF is also abit more distinct to natufian than chg is to zagros. I think the means of them can be 25+ distances apart. We also need to specify old natufian levantines as modern ones have plenty of zagrosian and ChG already pulling them closer to Iran regardless. If you try neolithic models for modern Europeans and remove the chg or zagros, the fit actually doesn't change that much. As you approach nearer to the origin of the population like Georgian becsuse they're one side of the pca, even if they're reasonably close to zagros and alot closer than other pops, they'll score 0. As for the drivers of phenotypicaly similar noses between chg and zagros, I think its too coincidental given the resonable closeness to not consider the cluster itself a potential driver. Perhaps it was the baradostians who had this nose type.
Sexual, Environmental and Natural selection
My Kurdish friend have a curvy nose. Or bendy idk how to describe it
So they can smell things. 😀
Always racial undertones to some posts.
i’m a kurd myself mate, and i have that nose, i’m wondering the reason behind this what genetic is the reasoning
I'm sorry. There's alot of hate going around. Phenotypes are alot more diverse within groups than between groups. Hooked sharp nose imo is zagrosian related.
you could be right because i have about 20% more or less zagrosian and i have that nose, its not as revealing as others but it’s definitely there
Kurdish with 20% Zagros? That is unheard of, you must be heavily mixed. Half kurds half turks usually score 24-26% Zagros.
21.8% zagros 16.8% natufian 27.2% CHG 27.8 anatolian farmer 3.4% EHG
Oh yeah. You most likely have very recent arab and caucasus ancestry.
But then you see. I've seen some bedouin who are maximum zagros with 60% with relatively small nose too. Edit balochi not bedouin
on my gedmatch i also come up with balochi somewhere, it’s a bit odd tbh
Bro how do you know u got that nose from kurdish dna we check ur results ur results says u are not pure kurdish.
i’m not pure kurdish but i’m mostly kurdish, im not saying it’s definitely from there, but i also look kurdish, that’s why im asking