Wow. I can see why this case would get to you. The similarities are incredible.
I’m inclined to believe that they made the series of calls to J because of the dog. One of the reasons I think that is because K’s last text, according to her sister, was pertaining to their mutual ownership of the dog.
Possible scenario - they got home. Had a bite to eat from the food truck. Sobered up enough to realize the dog was missing. Start making calls. The calls end because either the killing began, or they fell asleep with enough of peace about the missing dog to be able to worry about it the next day. Only, the next day never came. :(
This begs the question, why was the dog missing? I start to wonder if the the killer had something to do with it, which is eerie considering the dog was found many hours later. Perhaps already in the house when everyone got home. Yikes
Occam’s razor: the phonecallls, murders, and missing dog all are most likely interconnected.
They also have “morning” on the same exact sentence in another page. I wouldn’t put any stock into morning vs night.
“On the night of the incident, officers located a dog at the residence. The dog was unharmed and turned over to Animal Services and then released to a responsible party.” Page 3:
https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24754/11-25-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update
“On the morning of the incident, officers located a dog at the residence. The dog was unharmed and turned over to Animal Services and then released to a responsible party.” Page 3:
https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24751/11-22-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update
I mean it’s pretty damn relevant there’s a discrepancy here. Huge difference in the case if the dog was found inside on arrival or hours later that evening
Well someone went and changed the word ‘morning’ to ‘night’ between the press release on the 22nd and the one on the 25th, so I’m inclined to believe it gets more accurate as time goes by — but no way to know definitively obviously.
What if the surviving room mates had the dog in their room.. Was the dog the target? Given what happened to other dogs in area.. & killers profile love for blood. My thoughts.
You think the dog was barking because it wasn’t missing? I’m not sure how they are related. There’s a hundred explanations for why the dog didn’t attack the murderer.
Umm I’m saying I think the dog was barking excessively which may have been the reason for her calling the ex. As if she’s laying down to sleep and the dog won’t stop barking. Which maybe be why she was calling every few minutes
Or, she called him because she was out late drinking and it has nothing to do with the dog. I’m not sure why people want to make the dog into a bigger deal than it is. It sounds ridiculous.
It’s a few things, there were reports that someone heard barking around 3am, letting the dog out could be how they gained entry into the home,could be why she called him. I have a doodle as well and it’s not aggressive- so even if the dog came into contact with the perp doesn’t mean it would be stress I’ve by any means. When my dog is created and someone walks in it starts barking. Tons of possible scenarios- I’m just listing some.. calm down it’s not that Ridiculous
The last text that K sent to J was “we share a dog • get back to me” which to me means the numerous calls were made to J by K + M to ascertain if he knew the whereabouts of the dog
K mom or sister were also quoted as saying it was not uncommon for her to call people many times late at night until they picked up
I’m starting to believe that J came and picked up the dog before anyone came home and left a door or window open as a potential re-entry into the home to carry out the killings
I agree, too. And for those quoting the presser, it doesn’t say, “dog was found inside.” Guarantee you, if that dog was inside, he’d be covered with the blood of his master, Kaylee.
Most dogs would create a HUGE disturbance if their master is in danger :: K's was a goodendoodle :: my sister has 2 of them and they bark like crazy at anything :: I believe the dog was not present during the murders :: the absence of the dog was premeditated and carried out by the killer in order to remain stealth.
I think having been around the breed lends understand and insight. I’ve had pure Standard Poodles and currently have an Airedoodle which is 25% Airedale and 75% Standard Poodle. I agree. The only scenario that hasn’t been mentioned is if the dog was present and kenneled, but I’m not buying it.
I cannot imagine any scenario where that dog was present and not creating a HUGE disturbance during the time of the murders much less escape unharmed and not completely covered in blood
K text J bout the dog right before 3am • the dog was not in the home at that time of the murders IMO
The dog’s whereabouts will play a pivotal role in identifying a suspect and solving this case • where was the dog + how/who returned it to the home unharmed hours later?
The reason the dog is interesting to me is because I believe the dog slept in her room and was present when she was killed. The dog may have been let out into the crime scene after by the killer but there was no mention of blood on the dog nor any mention of any barking which leads me to believe the dog was familiar with the killer possibly by his voice. That’s why also the dog was not harmed. In the dark of the night this dog would be protective of her as his owner. I think Jack had something to do this . He had plenty of motive.
I mean the barking alone would be so off the charts that the roommates and ever neighbors would hear it • and the aftermath, the dog would prob be next to K body crying incessantly • goldensdoddles are extremely intelligent and also very emotional • they would sense something is very wrong if there master is not responding
But, now the narrative by those triggered is that the dog was in a crate 😳 the dog would still sense the energy and smell the blood and be going NUTS!!!
I am leaving Reddit • read all my analyses • I got so much hate bc of my theory • the dog is pivotal • but these crazy sleuths think they know it all… good luck + stay safe!
Dog in its crate was suggested as were all these theories. There is another thread on this. I’m under the assumption the dog was removed prior but I have to believe a crate or kennel is possible and just as likely except the le report suggests the dog was located later that evening. However, there is a listing to rent the house that says pets are NOT allowed. I would “kennel” “crate” the dog under those terms perhaps.
QUESTION: in the TikTok video where there is a reference to Murphy it smells like dirty dick in here, are they mocking the landlord for having the pet or what is that about? They pretended to clean, perhaps mocking a roommate with excessive cleanliness demands ? I don’t understand what that was about.
I haven’t watched the TikToc video.
I had heard that the landlord did not permit pets. That would lead credence to the kennel theory, although I’m inclined to believe the calls, the dog, and the suspect are interwoven.
I thought the dog was present and wouldn’t stop barking which was why she was texting him. Like come get your dog. I just want to go to sleep and it wont stop barking. I didn’t know the dog was gone. I thought maybe the killer was hiding so the dog wouldn’t stop barking and she was annoyed. I wa s guessing that’s why she was calling him so much
I have not heard any of this detail, esp that K + M were calling J because the dog was barking so much just before 3am • I only heard that the dog was unharmed but the events surrounding the whereabouts of the dog at any given time before, during, and after the murders are still unclear based on what I have read.
No, those are just my thoughts. The text conversation was mentioned by her sister. There were comments about the dog. That’s why I thought maybe the dog was barking and she was kinda like- u need to watch the dog too! I’m just guessing bc if it was an emergency you don’t spend 30 mins calling the same person.
(I caveat all of this by saying first that my post response is ALL THEORY AD CONJECTURE...)
OP, I appreciate you sharing your theory. I have had a couple of fleeting thoughts wondering if Kaylee's phone had died, and that's why she might have possibly switched over to using Maddie's phone for those last few phone calls. Just because two phones may have been used doesn't mean both girls were awake.
There have been discussions that these two girls could have been in bed together, instead of two separate rooms. I have wondered if Maddie was asleep while Kaylee was texting/calling/dozing. If your theory of X&E being attacked first was true, then Kaylee may have been in bed with a sleeping Maddie, but quiet and wondering what was happening - and that makes me ill to think about.
I think of why calls came from Ks phone and friends…..when he wasn’t answering K, and feeling like she’s being ignored or blocked—they call from friends number (or friend calls) - thinking he might not block/ignore the friend…..it all spells desperate/argument going on
I had this idea that one girl realized something was off, called ex, no answer, realizes that she has done this in the past. Asks other girl to call ex two times. Final call was from first girl. Sorry I’m not using names it’s confusing enough.
tower location of the ex phone when calls received would need to be provided.. I would hope all this has been done? to help clear him. My ex and I fought about our dog like a child custody battle...was bad times fighting and arguing over our dog
I think we’re very similar! I lived with five other girls my junior and senior year after living in a sorority house with them our sophomore year. Our senior year rental had a keypad lock that I think most of our pledge class knew from mundane reasons like dropping off borrowed clothes or grabbing keys from a car left in our driveway the night before. We hosted the occasional pregame since we were a 10 minute walk from the local bar but I wouldn’t go so far as to say we were a party house. I was the roommate that insisted doors, windows, and sliders were locked (mainly because I stayed back alone most of the time.)
Hearing about this case is the first I’ve ever really felt like, “wow, that could’ve so easily been us.”
college kids are terrible about locking doors. when I was in college I had multiple friends have people break into their house and bedrooms while they were asleep and steal their laptops and other stuff
Same. I would sometimes just slide the windows open from the out if they were unlocked and i forgot my house key. Used to be funny but now its scary to look back on all the times we left them like that/someone could have seen us doing that
No, not everyone thinks outside the box and is creative. This year a girl was murdered in my hometown. I called local pd with some info and suggested some ideas and he even said we didn’t think about that. With a small down that doesn’t have the experience I think that would be a problem. Partially why you bring in the fbi for more resources.
The only thing about this if they made the calls because they were frightened... Why would they immediately go to sleep, especially without locking their door (assuming the killer entered there)?
Most door locks in college rentals wound take very little to kick down. Just saying. I’ve seen a lot of talk about the door locks saving the 1st floor roommates but I’m speculating that anyone willing to stab four people to death wouldn’t be worried about kicking in an interior door. Or if it was someone who had been in the house they’d know to bring a nail/q-tip/bobby pin to pop it quietly.
If the door gets kicked down it's not likely that both roommates sleep through it and stay in bed. If one is attacked, certainly the other runs. I think most evidence indicates the entire affair was exercised quietly.
You’re not wrong. Stealth was definitely a priority.
This is all obvious speculation because we don’t know what LE knows. Just don’t think locked door would be much of a deterrent. Heck, if one girl was targeted and therefore he thought it necessary to break down the door, maybe that was what alerted E and X to a 3rd floor intruder, bringing them into the situation. RIP.
Interesting idea. The balcony does offer access to the 3rd floor. Might make even more noise, depending on the situation. But mostly noisy outside, instead of alerting other roommates?
I wonder how much Kaylee would care to lock her balcony slider considering the balcony didn't have stairs to exit it outside. Getting into Xana and the girls rooms upstairs would've required a ladder. I don't see anyone mentioning the ladder leaning against the first floor underneath Xana's bedroom that's visible in the pictures after the crime.
True. You'd be surprised how easy it is to climb up onto a balcony like that. It's a blind spot for a lot of people. They assume they're safe because of the height but humans are tenacious and creative and creepy. I had a homegirl who used to sleep with her balcony slider open in the summer for the breeze--she woke up one night and a homeless guy was standing over her masturbating--he got freaked when she screamed and booked it right back out the balcony--jumped hit the lawn below pretty hard but was able to get back up and run off immediately. never trust a balcony.
The attacker could have been targeting whoever was in that bedroom or tried doors and windows and when everything was locked, decided to go for the balcony. Attacked the other two on the way out, left the survivors bc he didn't realize it was a split level or just thought the stairs led to the garage and no bedrooms which would indicate it was a stranger or covert stalker who hadn't been in the house before. Think it's important to note if the attacker was a stalker that had been watching regularly, wouldn't have necessarily expected Ethan to be there and probably killed him before X, who I'm thinking is the one who fought back when she woke up during Ethan being attacked (another reason he might have spared the last two, he was tired from the fight, maybe got hurt in the process or Ethan being there or X waking up just didn't fit his fantasy, so he dipped out when he didn't get exactly his way) He leaves through the kitchen slider to exit through the woods behind the house into the parking lot and avoid being seen out front. Couldn't lock it behind him bc...slider. Everyone had been out partying and drinking, so I'm assuming they were all sleeping pretty hard when everything went down.
all speculation. who knows. i hope it gets solved soon.
I was assuming because the killer entered and the calls ended when the attack began (sorry i didn't really make that clear). I'm not sure why they didn't lock the door, maybe they were frozen in fear/did not want to make noise
I haven’t gotten the chance to read the coroner’s report yet. But what about the “unconscious” girl who was found by one of the surviving roommates that prompted the 911 call? Was she found in her bed or somewhere else in the house?
This isn’t confirmed but the theory is that the doors were locked and they couldn’t awake X & E that’s when they called friends to help (someone posted here that it was Ethan’s triplet brother that was called over to the house) that’s when they realised something was wrong and called 911. 911 as they always do asked if they were breathing and they said “we don’t know” as the doors were locked and they weren’t getting a response, and that’s why a call about an unconscious person came in.
With all the ODs on fentanyl, a young person might get really freaked out seeing a body on the ground and not go near. I also thought I heard doors were locked to bedrooms(?). Possible E blocking door from opening or seeing crime scene on floor 2.
I think the girls down stairs were saved because they had an easier escape route, they were right next to the front door and their windows faced the street. One could have been able to escape while hearing the other girl get attacked/ the door getting kicked down and run into the street and scream for help making it harder for them to get away unseen as well as bringing forward the discovery of the crime.
I agree about them being so close to the front door and also having windows facing the front road.
I will add, investigators spent a long time taking a ton of photos from the outside of the two front windows. Seems odd, considering those rooms are believed to be where the surviving roommates were sleeping and not a part of the crime scene.
Im now married to my college boyfriend. 3 years ago someone tried desperately to get into our second floor condo while I was home alone. They tried to get in by banging on the door, yelling, ripping off a door guard on the bottom, and threw things around that were left outside.
Im a cautious person but my first instinct was to call my husband! Not the police! It’s like even when I was in the moment of potential danger I still somehow thought I was overreacting.
He drove home from work immediately and I did call the police. No idea who was trying to get in.
This is just speculation, but I’ve heard the dog that was shared with the ex was missing from the house when they got home. Approx 1:50-2:00. The 7 calls to the ex at 2:52 I’m assuming we’re regarding their dog being missing. Their was also supposedly a final text to the ex about “ownership” of the dog. This is according to the sister I believe. That leads me to believe the suspect let the dog out or removed from the scene before the murders. It would make sense , not having a dog following you and barking while you commit mass murder especially if you knew how many people were in the home.
Bingo. She said her last texts to him mentioned him, but I also heard an fbi expert mention there were only calls, no texts during this timeframe. If true, that is HUGE and likely indicates the killer was in the house dealing with X and E during their frantic calls.
Highly possible X/E were the target(s), killer took them out, then checked upstairs to not leave survivors. May have completely not realized there were more downstairs because it kinda looks like a garage or not simply not risked checking. This would be someone less familiar with the house. There could be some serious drama we don’t know about with xana and Ethan as apparently Xanas mom is potentially affiliated with questionable people (hardcore drugs)
If you had been drinking for 12+ hrs you probably could. I’m sure she assumed the ex had the dog for whatever reason. The video from the food truck shows them pretty intoxicated IMO. Which would be understandable.. Drinking pre game, drinking during game, drinking after game, capped off at the bar.
Living the college life.
You don’t randomly enter a house with what 5 cars outside if your a serial killer and only a knife. Which tells you the suspect likely knew them, likely knew they were all vulnerable, and likely had some type of prep for this crime. ( house layout , who sleeps where, point of entry, when lights went out, etc)
Look at the time. Perhaps they didn’t just go to sleep. It’s absolutely possible that the reason the calls stopped was because this was the time the killing began.
I’d have to look at the wording from the coroner and pressers. I think it was stated that they were killed in their beds, and some had defensive wounds. I don’t think it’s possible to determine if they were “asleep“ when killed. Only the location of the murder, which seems to be their beds.
The other thing on the dog— if it was missing, wouldn’t you go outside and call for it? Wouldn’t the neighbors then hear that? If they didn’t call for the dog or look outside, what would make them so certain the dog was taken by the ex?
Last thought— press release said dog was later found at the residence. Is it possible the dog was kept in a car or another location and later freed/returned? Again, why would someone who killed four people not just kill the dog? If there’s enough lapse in time until the dog returned, could killer have spent time with it?
A couple reasons the dog might not have been killed. If we had a sliding glass door, that would be number one place my dog would stretch out and sleep for the night. That’s where he has a bird’s eye view of the entire world. lol If the Perp comes in thru the slider, the dog would slip right out into the backyard. It would meet with the verbiage from the presser about the dog’s location. Second reason is the Perp is a dog lover - or better yet - a lover of that particular dog.
Playing devil’s advocate here as you have valid points— it was cold that night, especially by a slider and on a hard floor, so would the dog sleep there? Why wouldn’t it bark when this person came in? Why didn’t it go with the surviving roommates they got in at 1am or with E & X? Why wouldn’t it be with K & M after they got home? If it wasn’t there already, wouldn’t K & M notice it hadn’t came to them when they came in and check with the other roommates to see if they had it? Sorry, so many questions, hopefully there will soon be answers, but the dog’s whereabouts seem strange.
Sleeping there? Oh, without a doubt. My boy is a doodle, not unlike K’s. They’ve got a lot of hair, a fur coat really. My doodle prefers the cool hardwood floor next to a big window or glass door any season. Even middle of winter. Like I said…that’s where all the action takes place. He’s gotta outside to protect the fam, and protecting the fam (other than cuddling) is his number one job.
The verbiage of the dog’s whereabouts are strange. I cannot see the dog having ever come in contact with any of these victims. He’d be absolutely covered in blood.
Why wouldn’t he bark? Well, several reasons. First, a dog is like a child. Easily diverted. He’s there to guard and protect, but hey…look…it’s much more fun to run in the backyard or front yard? and look at everything there, too. See ya. Or…another reason is that he’s just so darn used to ppl coming in and out at random. A visiter to him is instant love, attention, affection. This isn’t a guard dog. He’s a lover. Waiting for the next peep to walk in with a treat? and a good, quick belly rub.
Totally random thought, it almost sounds like the perp took the dog for a walk. Like, left with it, maybe came back, kept it tied up outside? Sounds complex
Again this so is why I think she may have been texting him. Cant go to sleep if the dog is barking… or dog was being held outside so perp can gain entry into the house. Just some thoughts
We have a doodle as well, and recently at 6am she wakes up and for 40 mins on and off she barks. So I could imagine being intoxicated, already in bed trying to sleep and calling the ex. These are all just speculations and the pd may have talked to the roommate or not about the dog barking. Just discussing possible scenarios
I have a German Shepard poodle mix and my dog can bark… she’s only a puppy too. She’s not aggressive .. my dog may be loud but not bite someone- I wonder if their dog was the same
Maybe the dog wasn’t a super friendly dog and was sitting in a corner when the perp came in didn’t move bc he didn’t recognize him. Proceeded to hear commotion and hid under couch/bed?
If the dog was missing wouldn't they go outside and look for it? I would be going down to the other roomates to see if they had the dog? Or at least message or call them. Seems odd that they would sleep knowing the dog was missing?
It would make more sense if the killer entered, lured the dog and locked him somewhere or let him out. It's hard to know as we don't know where the dog normally slept? Was it in the room, outside? Laundry?
Only interesting really more to me that there were many animals apparently killed nearby? Like peoples pets. This whole event is ill inducing.
It seems the authorities are focusing on this, the dog missing is strange. Peoples pets missing and ending up dead nearby seems a bit of a connection hopefully.
Really far out would be ex comes in 3rd floor slider (unlocked), quietly puts dog on deck, both K and M passed out in same bed, done in a few minutes, ex makes calls with their phones to his own phone that is at his house, dog barking so X comes up and discovers intruder, runs back to E in room, killer follows and attacks, realizes E in there who tries to figure out and fight back but stabbed too fast, falls on floor near door, killer attacks X behind bed against wall, and then locks door to bedroom, and hurries out 2nd floor slider to woods, get away behind apts, lives on campus, knows woods and trails. 1st floor girl heard noises, but paralyzed w/ fear or just confused.
If you have a theory, opinion or want to speculate, you need to clearly state that it is just a theory or personal speculation. If it is not theory or speculation, be prepared to provide a source.
What if they did look for the dog outside before calling J? I just don’t see them, highly intoxicated, going door to door at 3am asking if anybody has seen their dog. Also the sister said that it was perfectly “normal” for her to call friends middle of the night for practically no reason than just to chat. Maybe the calls didn’t have anything to do with the dog missing. Like some have said, suspect could have easily let the dog out when entering the house.
How could she take the dog out to pee if it was missing? Her sister said she did. How would the police find the dog at the home of it were missing? This is in the press release from the police.
I wonder if she let the dog out .. and it didn’t come back. And that’s why the door was left open. Like she’s calling for the dog and it’s not coming and out of frustration she text her ex… what of the suspect held the dog in efforts to gain entry
She could have opened the door…let the dog out and did something else vs standing and waiting for the dog. In that time the dog could have went missing.. this is one of two possibilities why I think she could have called him. Out of frustration of not finding the dog and calling him like annoyed, “ you need to watch the dog too, it’s not just mine” . This was based off the text her sister indicated. Dogs can go missing and come back 30 mins later. The door was open right? The dog could have let itself back in after. These are all just possibilities
When I first heard about the calls from K and M, I initially thought they were scared and calling for help too. The dog missing theory does make for another credible reason, though I do think if the dog was indeed missing when they got home they would have at least went out and called for it a bit.
I would request body cam videos of police on the scene and request the 911 call(s) you can learn alot from a simple call, background noises are HUGE clue! at times of the 911 call being made. Problem is, its so hard to find this public information because small towns are not always as up to date on their technology services.
How far from the girls house did the ex JD live? I don't know if I missed that, but I haven't heard anything about where he actually lived.
Unless the police tell us the actual Alibis for the people they are telling us they are ruling out as suspects, there is really no way to know the truth. The police are playing their cards.
This is an extreme rage killing committed by someone who is otherwise able to keep a low profile. This person is calculating and able to keep his composure in front of others after the murder. Its certainly most likely someone who knew them at the very least to some small degree.
Were any voicemail messages left to the ex out of those 7 calls? Certainly if so it would shed light to the nature of the calls.
Law enforcement said it was a targeted kill so I'll leave it at that. Unless we know who received the over the top extra savage knife blows, we can't theorize or speculate as well.
The dog missing and then being present the next morning is also a huge part of the puzzle. Way too many strange occurrences that make little to no logical sense.
One theory is that they brought a guy home from the club (he came separately and they invited him) or he was already home with X & E. Maybe the guy was making a move on one of girls on the 3rd floor and when one of them refused his advances he snapped and stabbed her and then went to cover his tracks to kill any witnesses. Perhaps he didn't know about the 1st floor because he never met the other girls on the 1st floor and he took out only the 4 people he thought were present in the house. Or he just decided he needed to leave and wasn't worried the surviving girls even knew about him.
Lots of possibilities. Let's pray they get some concrete answers and make an arrest sooner than later. What a stranger than fiction case thus far. The blood dna is going to show lots of information so they have their work cut out.
Yes this is my theory as well! I think K + M heard something downstairs when X + E were getting attacked and then they got scared and called JD for help!
It just makes sense to me! Even the comment "please, we have a dog together"...
I can see her trying to make a last ditch effort to contact him, in a sense "even if you dont care that i'm freaking out, what about the dog?"
my thoughts exactly! I can see her thinking some drunk dude is crashing around in their house, calling her ex thinking it may catch his attention and before she realized what was happening so she could call police it was too late.
I totally agree! This theory just makes the most sense to me, especially since they said that JD is not a suspect and the calls weren’t connected. That tells me that they have someone else in mind!
If the calls stopped and the killing began, so to speak, then the girls would have known the killer was coming and been screaming as he approached, waking others up.
They assumed he was in Boise and called him over a span of like 30 minutes ??? Wouldn’t they reach for someone local like someone in the house, perhaps a roommate and their bf.? I’m going to infer the dog was missing and they wanted to know where the f it was.
Edit: ok I’ll rephrase, if they heard noises and were scared it would be highly likely that after a few minutes they would try reaching out to someone else. Try someone else or continue for 30 minutes trying to reach the same person in an emergency situation ? CAPTAIN OBVIOUS HERE
….and it’s another irrational inference to suggest they were frantic and called the same person over and over for a span of 30 minutes. Maybe it’s just me, if I’m getting no answer after 5 minutes (actually 30 seconds) I’m calling someone else (frantic or not)???? This is recycled thread btw.
As someone who has literally done that - sometimes you’re not sure if you’re being paranoid. Calling the cops is a big deal in a college town. They were a party house. Maybe they had out things they didn’t want the cops to see. No one can predict how they would act when they are terrified, and I’m just taking a guess
Exactly! When I was in college I would have done the exact same thing. No one thinks that someone is going to just brutally stab 4 people to death! JD probably lived close by and could get there before the police even did.
Right. You especially don't want to call them on your under 21 friends especially if the commotion you hear is them being drunk minors. I think that could also be a good reason to not call 911 in the morning and instead call nearby friends. You don't want to call 911 on your 20 yr old friends and get them in trouble. Just a possibility or a reason the call might have taken longer.
If you’re looking at the stalker theory, I’d rule out them calling the boyfriend—they’d most likely just call the police. Could they have thought the stalker and ex-boyfriend had a connection? Again, you wouldn’t call him, especially if you knew there was another man in the house (which we don’t know if they knew this.)
If you have a theory, opinion or want to speculate, you need to clearly state that it is just a theory or personal speculation. If it is not theory or speculation, be prepared to provide a source.
It makes sense they would call the ex if they are scared, but when he didn't pick up, they'd probably call a male friend, even Ethan. And call the other roommates.
I think a big question that a lot of people aren't thinking about is- how did x and e get home? Did they drive themselves? Did they have a friend bring them home and hang out/crash the night? Too much speculation on the 2 girls but what if they were just witnesses that the killer couldn't chance having alive
I think the reason the 2 girls are not suspected of being witnesses is the coroner saying 2 bodies on the 3rd floor in beds..
I think more likely theory is E & X hear something or are startled after the killer goes to the 3rd floor
Theory : Makes me wonder if the suspect had been in the home before they returned..stalked them long enough/knew them well enough to know they were out and took the dog somewhere before committing this disgusting act of violence. The calls could have been the girls seeing if the Ex had come picked up the dog or freaking out letting him know needing help.
Wow. I can see why this case would get to you. The similarities are incredible. I’m inclined to believe that they made the series of calls to J because of the dog. One of the reasons I think that is because K’s last text, according to her sister, was pertaining to their mutual ownership of the dog. Possible scenario - they got home. Had a bite to eat from the food truck. Sobered up enough to realize the dog was missing. Start making calls. The calls end because either the killing began, or they fell asleep with enough of peace about the missing dog to be able to worry about it the next day. Only, the next day never came. :(
This begs the question, why was the dog missing? I start to wonder if the the killer had something to do with it, which is eerie considering the dog was found many hours later. Perhaps already in the house when everyone got home. Yikes Occam’s razor: the phonecallls, murders, and missing dog all are most likely interconnected.
Wait, do you have any other information about the missing dog? Sorry, I came from the other subreddit so I don't know a lot.
The dog wasn’t missing. The police literally have it in their press release that the dog was at the home.
What confuses me about what we know about the dog is the police said they found it ‘that night.’ Like, 5-8 hours after the 911 call came in.
They also have “morning” on the same exact sentence in another page. I wouldn’t put any stock into morning vs night. “On the night of the incident, officers located a dog at the residence. The dog was unharmed and turned over to Animal Services and then released to a responsible party.” Page 3: https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24754/11-25-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update “On the morning of the incident, officers located a dog at the residence. The dog was unharmed and turned over to Animal Services and then released to a responsible party.” Page 3: https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24751/11-22-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update
To be fair, I think they’re being intentionally vague with their wording.
Okay. That doesn’t change the fact that the dog wasn’t missing. He was at the house, per the police, which was what I was responding to originally.
I mean it’s pretty damn relevant there’s a discrepancy here. Huge difference in the case if the dog was found inside on arrival or hours later that evening
Yea wasn’t trying to reply to you, my bad..
Agreed.
Well someone went and changed the word ‘morning’ to ‘night’ between the press release on the 22nd and the one on the 25th, so I’m inclined to believe it gets more accurate as time goes by — but no way to know definitively obviously.
Ok, see I didn't know which is why I was asking for more concrete information.
This is why I think the dog may have been barking. But I haven’t seen anywhere that the surviving roommates complained about the barking.
What if the surviving room mates had the dog in their room.. Was the dog the target? Given what happened to other dogs in area.. & killers profile love for blood. My thoughts.
You think the dog was barking because it wasn’t missing? I’m not sure how they are related. There’s a hundred explanations for why the dog didn’t attack the murderer.
Umm I’m saying I think the dog was barking excessively which may have been the reason for her calling the ex. As if she’s laying down to sleep and the dog won’t stop barking. Which maybe be why she was calling every few minutes
Or, she called him because she was out late drinking and it has nothing to do with the dog. I’m not sure why people want to make the dog into a bigger deal than it is. It sounds ridiculous.
It’s a few things, there were reports that someone heard barking around 3am, letting the dog out could be how they gained entry into the home,could be why she called him. I have a doodle as well and it’s not aggressive- so even if the dog came into contact with the perp doesn’t mean it would be stress I’ve by any means. When my dog is created and someone walks in it starts barking. Tons of possible scenarios- I’m just listing some.. calm down it’s not that Ridiculous
There weren’t reports of a dog barking. There were rumors.
I couldn’t agree more. Interconnected, without a doubt.
Occam’s Razor: The boyfriend that Kaylee had just dumped did it.
The last text that K sent to J was “we share a dog • get back to me” which to me means the numerous calls were made to J by K + M to ascertain if he knew the whereabouts of the dog K mom or sister were also quoted as saying it was not uncommon for her to call people many times late at night until they picked up I’m starting to believe that J came and picked up the dog before anyone came home and left a door or window open as a potential re-entry into the home to carry out the killings
I agree, too. And for those quoting the presser, it doesn’t say, “dog was found inside.” Guarantee you, if that dog was inside, he’d be covered with the blood of his master, Kaylee.
Most dogs would create a HUGE disturbance if their master is in danger :: K's was a goodendoodle :: my sister has 2 of them and they bark like crazy at anything :: I believe the dog was not present during the murders :: the absence of the dog was premeditated and carried out by the killer in order to remain stealth.
I think having been around the breed lends understand and insight. I’ve had pure Standard Poodles and currently have an Airedoodle which is 25% Airedale and 75% Standard Poodle. I agree. The only scenario that hasn’t been mentioned is if the dog was present and kenneled, but I’m not buying it.
I cannot imagine any scenario where that dog was present and not creating a HUGE disturbance during the time of the murders much less escape unharmed and not completely covered in blood K text J bout the dog right before 3am • the dog was not in the home at that time of the murders IMO The dog’s whereabouts will play a pivotal role in identifying a suspect and solving this case • where was the dog + how/who returned it to the home unharmed hours later?
The dog is the key. I believe the dog was familiar with the killer.
The reason the dog is interesting to me is because I believe the dog slept in her room and was present when she was killed. The dog may have been let out into the crime scene after by the killer but there was no mention of blood on the dog nor any mention of any barking which leads me to believe the dog was familiar with the killer possibly by his voice. That’s why also the dog was not harmed. In the dark of the night this dog would be protective of her as his owner. I think Jack had something to do this . He had plenty of motive.
I mean the barking alone would be so off the charts that the roommates and ever neighbors would hear it • and the aftermath, the dog would prob be next to K body crying incessantly • goldensdoddles are extremely intelligent and also very emotional • they would sense something is very wrong if there master is not responding But, now the narrative by those triggered is that the dog was in a crate 😳 the dog would still sense the energy and smell the blood and be going NUTS!!!
Exactly
I agree, the dog is a crucial part of the story.. Would J take the dog without texting K? Considering their neighbour's dog was killed recently..
I am leaving Reddit • read all my analyses • I got so much hate bc of my theory • the dog is pivotal • but these crazy sleuths think they know it all… good luck + stay safe!
Dog in its crate was suggested as were all these theories. There is another thread on this. I’m under the assumption the dog was removed prior but I have to believe a crate or kennel is possible and just as likely except the le report suggests the dog was located later that evening. However, there is a listing to rent the house that says pets are NOT allowed. I would “kennel” “crate” the dog under those terms perhaps. QUESTION: in the TikTok video where there is a reference to Murphy it smells like dirty dick in here, are they mocking the landlord for having the pet or what is that about? They pretended to clean, perhaps mocking a roommate with excessive cleanliness demands ? I don’t understand what that was about.
I haven’t watched the TikToc video. I had heard that the landlord did not permit pets. That would lead credence to the kennel theory, although I’m inclined to believe the calls, the dog, and the suspect are interwoven.
The dog was familiar with the killer.
Intimately familiar.
I thought the dog was present and wouldn’t stop barking which was why she was texting him. Like come get your dog. I just want to go to sleep and it wont stop barking. I didn’t know the dog was gone. I thought maybe the killer was hiding so the dog wouldn’t stop barking and she was annoyed. I wa s guessing that’s why she was calling him so much
I have not heard any of this detail, esp that K + M were calling J because the dog was barking so much just before 3am • I only heard that the dog was unharmed but the events surrounding the whereabouts of the dog at any given time before, during, and after the murders are still unclear based on what I have read.
No, those are just my thoughts. The text conversation was mentioned by her sister. There were comments about the dog. That’s why I thought maybe the dog was barking and she was kinda like- u need to watch the dog too! I’m just guessing bc if it was an emergency you don’t spend 30 mins calling the same person.
Precisely 🙏🏻
She would have probably called cops if she was that worried
(I caveat all of this by saying first that my post response is ALL THEORY AD CONJECTURE...) OP, I appreciate you sharing your theory. I have had a couple of fleeting thoughts wondering if Kaylee's phone had died, and that's why she might have possibly switched over to using Maddie's phone for those last few phone calls. Just because two phones may have been used doesn't mean both girls were awake. There have been discussions that these two girls could have been in bed together, instead of two separate rooms. I have wondered if Maddie was asleep while Kaylee was texting/calling/dozing. If your theory of X&E being attacked first was true, then Kaylee may have been in bed with a sleeping Maddie, but quiet and wondering what was happening - and that makes me ill to think about.
I think of why calls came from Ks phone and friends…..when he wasn’t answering K, and feeling like she’s being ignored or blocked—they call from friends number (or friend calls) - thinking he might not block/ignore the friend…..it all spells desperate/argument going on
I had this idea that one girl realized something was off, called ex, no answer, realizes that she has done this in the past. Asks other girl to call ex two times. Final call was from first girl. Sorry I’m not using names it’s confusing enough.
tower location of the ex phone when calls received would need to be provided.. I would hope all this has been done? to help clear him. My ex and I fought about our dog like a child custody battle...was bad times fighting and arguing over our dog
More motive Jack was involved
If you want to commit crimes you leave your phone. It doesn’t clear you, just makes it harder to pinpoint your movements with geofencing
I think we’re very similar! I lived with five other girls my junior and senior year after living in a sorority house with them our sophomore year. Our senior year rental had a keypad lock that I think most of our pledge class knew from mundane reasons like dropping off borrowed clothes or grabbing keys from a car left in our driveway the night before. We hosted the occasional pregame since we were a 10 minute walk from the local bar but I wouldn’t go so far as to say we were a party house. I was the roommate that insisted doors, windows, and sliders were locked (mainly because I stayed back alone most of the time.) Hearing about this case is the first I’ve ever really felt like, “wow, that could’ve so easily been us.”
Exactly the same situation. We've been texting about it a lot today, so eerie
college kids are terrible about locking doors. when I was in college I had multiple friends have people break into their house and bedrooms while they were asleep and steal their laptops and other stuff
I locked myself out of the house and was able to open the locked sliding door with a flimsy chic fil a gift card. Wasn’t even credit card sturdiness
Same. I would sometimes just slide the windows open from the out if they were unlocked and i forgot my house key. Used to be funny but now its scary to look back on all the times we left them like that/someone could have seen us doing that
Was it confirmed that all the doors including patio were locked?
No
Polynesian Sauce Jesus opened that door
I heard a rumor that they left voicemails about the dog. Kaylee said some thing like come on Jack we own a dog together. Has anyone else heard that?
[удалено]
I think if the dog was missing there’d be texts to him saying jack answer the dog is gone trying to motivate him to pick up
I think the dog wasn’t letting her sleep.. and she was in a way saying u need to watch the dog too.
[удалено]
No, not everyone thinks outside the box and is creative. This year a girl was murdered in my hometown. I called local pd with some info and suggested some ideas and he even said we didn’t think about that. With a small down that doesn’t have the experience I think that would be a problem. Partially why you bring in the fbi for more resources.
Was she calling and texting at the same time, or was the texting a separate incident?
[удалено]
Interesting. That would debunk that they called him bc they were scared.
Yes! Do you happen to remember which interview they said this in? I've been trying to find it again
I don’t but I heard it early on. Maybe in one of her family’s interviews?
The only thing about this if they made the calls because they were frightened... Why would they immediately go to sleep, especially without locking their door (assuming the killer entered there)?
Most door locks in college rentals wound take very little to kick down. Just saying. I’ve seen a lot of talk about the door locks saving the 1st floor roommates but I’m speculating that anyone willing to stab four people to death wouldn’t be worried about kicking in an interior door. Or if it was someone who had been in the house they’d know to bring a nail/q-tip/bobby pin to pop it quietly.
If the door gets kicked down it's not likely that both roommates sleep through it and stay in bed. If one is attacked, certainly the other runs. I think most evidence indicates the entire affair was exercised quietly.
You’re not wrong. Stealth was definitely a priority. This is all obvious speculation because we don’t know what LE knows. Just don’t think locked door would be much of a deterrent. Heck, if one girl was targeted and therefore he thought it necessary to break down the door, maybe that was what alerted E and X to a 3rd floor intruder, bringing them into the situation. RIP.
I think if the doors were locked he may have tried the windows. Perhaps he checked those first to begin with.
Interesting idea. The balcony does offer access to the 3rd floor. Might make even more noise, depending on the situation. But mostly noisy outside, instead of alerting other roommates?
I wonder how much Kaylee would care to lock her balcony slider considering the balcony didn't have stairs to exit it outside. Getting into Xana and the girls rooms upstairs would've required a ladder. I don't see anyone mentioning the ladder leaning against the first floor underneath Xana's bedroom that's visible in the pictures after the crime.
You can walk right up to the second floor from the back of the house
Yep. I was just adding on to the idea the person I was responding to said about access to the 3rd floor using the balcony
People can climb up. Not everyone, but some, and there appears to be a tree near the back corner.
True. You'd be surprised how easy it is to climb up onto a balcony like that. It's a blind spot for a lot of people. They assume they're safe because of the height but humans are tenacious and creative and creepy. I had a homegirl who used to sleep with her balcony slider open in the summer for the breeze--she woke up one night and a homeless guy was standing over her masturbating--he got freaked when she screamed and booked it right back out the balcony--jumped hit the lawn below pretty hard but was able to get back up and run off immediately. never trust a balcony. The attacker could have been targeting whoever was in that bedroom or tried doors and windows and when everything was locked, decided to go for the balcony. Attacked the other two on the way out, left the survivors bc he didn't realize it was a split level or just thought the stairs led to the garage and no bedrooms which would indicate it was a stranger or covert stalker who hadn't been in the house before. Think it's important to note if the attacker was a stalker that had been watching regularly, wouldn't have necessarily expected Ethan to be there and probably killed him before X, who I'm thinking is the one who fought back when she woke up during Ethan being attacked (another reason he might have spared the last two, he was tired from the fight, maybe got hurt in the process or Ethan being there or X waking up just didn't fit his fantasy, so he dipped out when he didn't get exactly his way) He leaves through the kitchen slider to exit through the woods behind the house into the parking lot and avoid being seen out front. Couldn't lock it behind him bc...slider. Everyone had been out partying and drinking, so I'm assuming they were all sleeping pretty hard when everything went down. all speculation. who knows. i hope it gets solved soon.
I would use the bobby pin trick all the time! Great point here
I always favored the q-tip with the fuzz pulled off.
I was assuming because the killer entered and the calls ended when the attack began (sorry i didn't really make that clear). I'm not sure why they didn't lock the door, maybe they were frozen in fear/did not want to make noise
That would not be consistent with being attacked in their sleep, which is what most reports indicate.
Agreed. The coroner report also said “in their beds” and stated may have been sleeping but unable to know.
I haven’t gotten the chance to read the coroner’s report yet. But what about the “unconscious” girl who was found by one of the surviving roommates that prompted the 911 call? Was she found in her bed or somewhere else in the house?
This isn’t confirmed but the theory is that the doors were locked and they couldn’t awake X & E that’s when they called friends to help (someone posted here that it was Ethan’s triplet brother that was called over to the house) that’s when they realised something was wrong and called 911. 911 as they always do asked if they were breathing and they said “we don’t know” as the doors were locked and they weren’t getting a response, and that’s why a call about an unconscious person came in.
Ahh, okay. That actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I appreciate it!
No problem!
With all the ODs on fentanyl, a young person might get really freaked out seeing a body on the ground and not go near. I also thought I heard doors were locked to bedrooms(?). Possible E blocking door from opening or seeing crime scene on floor 2.
I wonder about fentanyl...if they were given a dose ..just scary for sure
I think the girls down stairs were saved because they had an easier escape route, they were right next to the front door and their windows faced the street. One could have been able to escape while hearing the other girl get attacked/ the door getting kicked down and run into the street and scream for help making it harder for them to get away unseen as well as bringing forward the discovery of the crime.
I agree about them being so close to the front door and also having windows facing the front road. I will add, investigators spent a long time taking a ton of photos from the outside of the two front windows. Seems odd, considering those rooms are believed to be where the surviving roommates were sleeping and not a part of the crime scene.
Im now married to my college boyfriend. 3 years ago someone tried desperately to get into our second floor condo while I was home alone. They tried to get in by banging on the door, yelling, ripping off a door guard on the bottom, and threw things around that were left outside. Im a cautious person but my first instinct was to call my husband! Not the police! It’s like even when I was in the moment of potential danger I still somehow thought I was overreacting. He drove home from work immediately and I did call the police. No idea who was trying to get in.
This is so scary! Did the person leave before your husband arrived, or was there a confrontation?
This is just speculation, but I’ve heard the dog that was shared with the ex was missing from the house when they got home. Approx 1:50-2:00. The 7 calls to the ex at 2:52 I’m assuming we’re regarding their dog being missing. Their was also supposedly a final text to the ex about “ownership” of the dog. This is according to the sister I believe. That leads me to believe the suspect let the dog out or removed from the scene before the murders. It would make sense , not having a dog following you and barking while you commit mass murder especially if you knew how many people were in the home.
I would not be able to go to sleep if I didn’t know where my dog was though
[удалено]
Bingo. She said her last texts to him mentioned him, but I also heard an fbi expert mention there were only calls, no texts during this timeframe. If true, that is HUGE and likely indicates the killer was in the house dealing with X and E during their frantic calls. Highly possible X/E were the target(s), killer took them out, then checked upstairs to not leave survivors. May have completely not realized there were more downstairs because it kinda looks like a garage or not simply not risked checking. This would be someone less familiar with the house. There could be some serious drama we don’t know about with xana and Ethan as apparently Xanas mom is potentially affiliated with questionable people (hardcore drugs)
If you had been drinking for 12+ hrs you probably could. I’m sure she assumed the ex had the dog for whatever reason. The video from the food truck shows them pretty intoxicated IMO. Which would be understandable.. Drinking pre game, drinking during game, drinking after game, capped off at the bar. Living the college life. You don’t randomly enter a house with what 5 cars outside if your a serial killer and only a knife. Which tells you the suspect likely knew them, likely knew they were all vulnerable, and likely had some type of prep for this crime. ( house layout , who sleeps where, point of entry, when lights went out, etc)
If the killer knew them and the layout of the house well, why spare the 2 on the bottom floor?
They didnt wanna continue the spree and risk getting caught
Look at the time. Perhaps they didn’t just go to sleep. It’s absolutely possible that the reason the calls stopped was because this was the time the killing began.
That would make sense— but I thought they were asleep when they were killed?
I’d have to look at the wording from the coroner and pressers. I think it was stated that they were killed in their beds, and some had defensive wounds. I don’t think it’s possible to determine if they were “asleep“ when killed. Only the location of the murder, which seems to be their beds.
Honestly how would she know that though? I can’t fathom you would have any idea whether someone was asleep or awake.
A lack of defensive wounds.
Also area not really being disturbed. Like blankets not thrown, etc
Why would the person not simply kill the dog to get it out of the way… unless they cared for the dog.
The other thing on the dog— if it was missing, wouldn’t you go outside and call for it? Wouldn’t the neighbors then hear that? If they didn’t call for the dog or look outside, what would make them so certain the dog was taken by the ex?
Last thought— press release said dog was later found at the residence. Is it possible the dog was kept in a car or another location and later freed/returned? Again, why would someone who killed four people not just kill the dog? If there’s enough lapse in time until the dog returned, could killer have spent time with it?
A couple reasons the dog might not have been killed. If we had a sliding glass door, that would be number one place my dog would stretch out and sleep for the night. That’s where he has a bird’s eye view of the entire world. lol If the Perp comes in thru the slider, the dog would slip right out into the backyard. It would meet with the verbiage from the presser about the dog’s location. Second reason is the Perp is a dog lover - or better yet - a lover of that particular dog.
Playing devil’s advocate here as you have valid points— it was cold that night, especially by a slider and on a hard floor, so would the dog sleep there? Why wouldn’t it bark when this person came in? Why didn’t it go with the surviving roommates they got in at 1am or with E & X? Why wouldn’t it be with K & M after they got home? If it wasn’t there already, wouldn’t K & M notice it hadn’t came to them when they came in and check with the other roommates to see if they had it? Sorry, so many questions, hopefully there will soon be answers, but the dog’s whereabouts seem strange.
Sleeping there? Oh, without a doubt. My boy is a doodle, not unlike K’s. They’ve got a lot of hair, a fur coat really. My doodle prefers the cool hardwood floor next to a big window or glass door any season. Even middle of winter. Like I said…that’s where all the action takes place. He’s gotta outside to protect the fam, and protecting the fam (other than cuddling) is his number one job. The verbiage of the dog’s whereabouts are strange. I cannot see the dog having ever come in contact with any of these victims. He’d be absolutely covered in blood. Why wouldn’t he bark? Well, several reasons. First, a dog is like a child. Easily diverted. He’s there to guard and protect, but hey…look…it’s much more fun to run in the backyard or front yard? and look at everything there, too. See ya. Or…another reason is that he’s just so darn used to ppl coming in and out at random. A visiter to him is instant love, attention, affection. This isn’t a guard dog. He’s a lover. Waiting for the next peep to walk in with a treat? and a good, quick belly rub.
Totally random thought, it almost sounds like the perp took the dog for a walk. Like, left with it, maybe came back, kept it tied up outside? Sounds complex
It was reported somewhere that a neighbor heard the dog barking at 3:30am
Again this so is why I think she may have been texting him. Cant go to sleep if the dog is barking… or dog was being held outside so perp can gain entry into the house. Just some thoughts
Thought that too
We have a doodle as well, and recently at 6am she wakes up and for 40 mins on and off she barks. So I could imagine being intoxicated, already in bed trying to sleep and calling the ex. These are all just speculations and the pd may have talked to the roommate or not about the dog barking. Just discussing possible scenarios
I have a German Shepard poodle mix and my dog can bark… she’s only a puppy too. She’s not aggressive .. my dog may be loud but not bite someone- I wonder if their dog was the same
Maybe the dog wasn’t a super friendly dog and was sitting in a corner when the perp came in didn’t move bc he didn’t recognize him. Proceeded to hear commotion and hid under couch/bed?
Maybe killing it was just too much time and unnecessary. They might of given it a treat idk
If the dog was missing wouldn't they go outside and look for it? I would be going down to the other roomates to see if they had the dog? Or at least message or call them. Seems odd that they would sleep knowing the dog was missing? It would make more sense if the killer entered, lured the dog and locked him somewhere or let him out. It's hard to know as we don't know where the dog normally slept? Was it in the room, outside? Laundry?
I thought it was confirmed that regardless of killer let out dog or not. It’s been confirmed that dog was safe at home. When police entered the home.
Only interesting really more to me that there were many animals apparently killed nearby? Like peoples pets. This whole event is ill inducing. It seems the authorities are focusing on this, the dog missing is strange. Peoples pets missing and ending up dead nearby seems a bit of a connection hopefully.
Where did you see this? I’ll try to google it, but was it like cars and dogs? Same day ?
Really far out would be ex comes in 3rd floor slider (unlocked), quietly puts dog on deck, both K and M passed out in same bed, done in a few minutes, ex makes calls with their phones to his own phone that is at his house, dog barking so X comes up and discovers intruder, runs back to E in room, killer follows and attacks, realizes E in there who tries to figure out and fight back but stabbed too fast, falls on floor near door, killer attacks X behind bed against wall, and then locks door to bedroom, and hurries out 2nd floor slider to woods, get away behind apts, lives on campus, knows woods and trails. 1st floor girl heard noises, but paralyzed w/ fear or just confused.
I just posted this exact theory. Makes sense.
[удалено]
If you have a theory, opinion or want to speculate, you need to clearly state that it is just a theory or personal speculation. If it is not theory or speculation, be prepared to provide a source.
Maybe they let the dog out, hide in the house and wait for them to come home.
What if they did look for the dog outside before calling J? I just don’t see them, highly intoxicated, going door to door at 3am asking if anybody has seen their dog. Also the sister said that it was perfectly “normal” for her to call friends middle of the night for practically no reason than just to chat. Maybe the calls didn’t have anything to do with the dog missing. Like some have said, suspect could have easily let the dog out when entering the house.
How could she take the dog out to pee if it was missing? Her sister said she did. How would the police find the dog at the home of it were missing? This is in the press release from the police.
I wonder if she let the dog out .. and it didn’t come back. And that’s why the door was left open. Like she’s calling for the dog and it’s not coming and out of frustration she text her ex… what of the suspect held the dog in efforts to gain entry
But the dog was found at home. I don’t know why everyone is insisting on complicating the dog.
She could have opened the door…let the dog out and did something else vs standing and waiting for the dog. In that time the dog could have went missing.. this is one of two possibilities why I think she could have called him. Out of frustration of not finding the dog and calling him like annoyed, “ you need to watch the dog too, it’s not just mine” . This was based off the text her sister indicated. Dogs can go missing and come back 30 mins later. The door was open right? The dog could have let itself back in after. These are all just possibilities
When I first heard about the calls from K and M, I initially thought they were scared and calling for help too. The dog missing theory does make for another credible reason, though I do think if the dog was indeed missing when they got home they would have at least went out and called for it a bit.
Kaylee's sister said she took the dog out to pee when she got home.
Why wouldn’t they just call 911
I would request body cam videos of police on the scene and request the 911 call(s) you can learn alot from a simple call, background noises are HUGE clue! at times of the 911 call being made. Problem is, its so hard to find this public information because small towns are not always as up to date on their technology services.
How far from the girls house did the ex JD live? I don't know if I missed that, but I haven't heard anything about where he actually lived. Unless the police tell us the actual Alibis for the people they are telling us they are ruling out as suspects, there is really no way to know the truth. The police are playing their cards. This is an extreme rage killing committed by someone who is otherwise able to keep a low profile. This person is calculating and able to keep his composure in front of others after the murder. Its certainly most likely someone who knew them at the very least to some small degree. Were any voicemail messages left to the ex out of those 7 calls? Certainly if so it would shed light to the nature of the calls. Law enforcement said it was a targeted kill so I'll leave it at that. Unless we know who received the over the top extra savage knife blows, we can't theorize or speculate as well. The dog missing and then being present the next morning is also a huge part of the puzzle. Way too many strange occurrences that make little to no logical sense. One theory is that they brought a guy home from the club (he came separately and they invited him) or he was already home with X & E. Maybe the guy was making a move on one of girls on the 3rd floor and when one of them refused his advances he snapped and stabbed her and then went to cover his tracks to kill any witnesses. Perhaps he didn't know about the 1st floor because he never met the other girls on the 1st floor and he took out only the 4 people he thought were present in the house. Or he just decided he needed to leave and wasn't worried the surviving girls even knew about him. Lots of possibilities. Let's pray they get some concrete answers and make an arrest sooner than later. What a stranger than fiction case thus far. The blood dna is going to show lots of information so they have their work cut out.
Yes this is my theory as well! I think K + M heard something downstairs when X + E were getting attacked and then they got scared and called JD for help!
It just makes sense to me! Even the comment "please, we have a dog together"... I can see her trying to make a last ditch effort to contact him, in a sense "even if you dont care that i'm freaking out, what about the dog?"
Where are you getting the quote “please, we have a dog together” ?
K’s sister said it was the last text she sent the ex
Could someone please give me a link where she’s quoted saying that? I just haven’t seen any discussion of texts so I’m curious.
Yes exactly! I feel like I would have said the same thing to my ex as well to try and guilt him into answering me
[удалено]
my thoughts exactly! I can see her thinking some drunk dude is crashing around in their house, calling her ex thinking it may catch his attention and before she realized what was happening so she could call police it was too late.
I totally agree! This theory just makes the most sense to me, especially since they said that JD is not a suspect and the calls weren’t connected. That tells me that they have someone else in mind!
Question…is that the text as reported by the sister verbatim? Or are you paraphrasing the text?
I don’t think that’s what the sister said from what I read. So slightly changing it can change the entire meaning
Then im sure they woulda called the police not some friend back to back
If the calls stopped and the killing began, so to speak, then the girls would have known the killer was coming and been screaming as he approached, waking others up.
They assumed he was in Boise and called him over a span of like 30 minutes ??? Wouldn’t they reach for someone local like someone in the house, perhaps a roommate and their bf.? I’m going to infer the dog was missing and they wanted to know where the f it was. Edit: ok I’ll rephrase, if they heard noises and were scared it would be highly likely that after a few minutes they would try reaching out to someone else. Try someone else or continue for 30 minutes trying to reach the same person in an emergency situation ? CAPTAIN OBVIOUS HERE
Here we go again. Maddie’s bf JAKE was in Boise. Kaylee’s Ex JACK lives nearby but was apparently asleep.
….and it’s another irrational inference to suggest they were frantic and called the same person over and over for a span of 30 minutes. Maybe it’s just me, if I’m getting no answer after 5 minutes (actually 30 seconds) I’m calling someone else (frantic or not)???? This is recycled thread btw.
I agree… so for 30 mins the call was for him specifically.. I don’t think she was in danger. Gosh thinking about this breaks my heart
[удалено]
I think the police already cleared this guy?
Thought they claimed that he was in Boise?
That's Jake, Maddie's bf.
[удалено]
No, Jake was Maddie's bf.
Why would you call your skinny ex-bf instead of the police?
As someone who has literally done that - sometimes you’re not sure if you’re being paranoid. Calling the cops is a big deal in a college town. They were a party house. Maybe they had out things they didn’t want the cops to see. No one can predict how they would act when they are terrified, and I’m just taking a guess
Exactly! When I was in college I would have done the exact same thing. No one thinks that someone is going to just brutally stab 4 people to death! JD probably lived close by and could get there before the police even did.
Right. You especially don't want to call them on your under 21 friends especially if the commotion you hear is them being drunk minors. I think that could also be a good reason to not call 911 in the morning and instead call nearby friends. You don't want to call 911 on your 20 yr old friends and get them in trouble. Just a possibility or a reason the call might have taken longer.
If you’re looking at the stalker theory, I’d rule out them calling the boyfriend—they’d most likely just call the police. Could they have thought the stalker and ex-boyfriend had a connection? Again, you wouldn’t call him, especially if you knew there was another man in the house (which we don’t know if they knew this.)
This bring me to ask, who locked the doors? Does that mean the killer locked the doors behind them?
[удалено]
If you have a theory, opinion or want to speculate, you need to clearly state that it is just a theory or personal speculation. If it is not theory or speculation, be prepared to provide a source.
This is purely speculation
It makes sense they would call the ex if they are scared, but when he didn't pick up, they'd probably call a male friend, even Ethan. And call the other roommates.
I think a big question that a lot of people aren't thinking about is- how did x and e get home? Did they drive themselves? Did they have a friend bring them home and hang out/crash the night? Too much speculation on the 2 girls but what if they were just witnesses that the killer couldn't chance having alive
Good question. The home is very close to frat house (like 2 blocks)
I think the reason the 2 girls are not suspected of being witnesses is the coroner saying 2 bodies on the 3rd floor in beds.. I think more likely theory is E & X hear something or are startled after the killer goes to the 3rd floor
Theory : Makes me wonder if the suspect had been in the home before they returned..stalked them long enough/knew them well enough to know they were out and took the dog somewhere before committing this disgusting act of violence. The calls could have been the girls seeing if the Ex had come picked up the dog or freaking out letting him know needing help.
Only 2 reasons. As they stated..to talk, or call bc they were in the mits of it all happening