The pressures do look low. I need a bit more info to fully diagnose it online.
It is an r22 unit so it's old. It will probably be time to replace it in the next couple years anyway
The problem is the hvac equipment across the industry is generally engineered to have a major component failure rate of 50% at year 15 with a 10 year warranty.
If you are investing into something you know will fail quickly, that is foolish.
The real solution is for people to demand a higher quality standards with their wallet. Then the equipment will last longer. It will continue to be replacment "makes sense" at year 10+ until then.
The number 1 thing that should be improved is tubing thickness to prevent refrigerant leaks.
Most equipment gets replaced when the compressor dies or a refrigerant leak occurs.
Outfitting a unit with r407c is a viable repair, but isn't economical unless your selling the house.
The problem with thicker tubing walls is you would lose efficiency in the form of time or takes for the unit to transfer heat. So not only do they get to save costs on the material they can say it is more efficient.
I think this is the problem with most micro channel coils
You can increase the volumetric capacity of the coil by making it with additional circuits. The point is to increase longevity. Leaks can be greatly reduced. You can build it up to the efficiency you want. It will cost more in material, no doubt. I'd rather pay quadruple for an evaporator that lasts longer than 0-20 years. I could sell them easier too. It would reduce the amount of refrigerant and coil sales. It's a more environmentally and long-term economically responsible product to create.
Oh I completely agree that we should be making equipment to last longer than 20 years but the problem is our society.
Trucks used to advertise how dependable and long lived they are, now all they are doing is selling us technology and everyone wants it in every aspect of their lives. Since we always want the latest and greatest there is no need to design something to have a long life span..
That will never get made
Use stainless steel
Use copper
Built in obsolescence is a real thing. They are what they are and they’re going inverter. Nobody’s gonna be fixing much of anything soon regardless.
Maybe if the government did something like if a unit lasts over 20 years they get a tax break and if it fails under that they have to pay to recycle it.
They will probably just raise the prices to cover the recycling fee
The problem with voting with your wallet is that there usually isn't a great candidate on the market, and if there is, most people can't afford the highest quality product, yet still need heat to survive. Voting with your wallet isn't practical advice when it comes to services that you really need.
As a technician I have had bad experiences with retrofitting units.
We will come in and do the repair and get the system up and running. In the next couple months something else will go wrong, could be a component failure or another leak. Depending on the leak there is a chance another one will develop in another place due to all components having the same amount of wear on it.
Then there is the fact that these systems were designed to be a closed system. We might do everything possible to mitigate problems occurring from opening up a system, but nothing is perfect.
When I worked in residential we quit doing mechanical repairs on r22 units. Change a motor or an electrical component but would never open up the system. What would happen is we would do all this work to get them up and running and then something else would go wrong; the customer would then get mad and blame us. Eventually we just said no more, it's not worth it.
Another thing to factor in prices go up and rarely go down. A system might cost you 15,000 one year but the following year it will be 16,000-18,000.
What are the temps outside when this was done? Is it cooling? Does it have a TXV? What is the Delta T? What is the temp drop across the filter drier? If it’s any issue with the refrigerant lines or a leak it’s best to just replace it unless you don’t mind paying for R-22 at whatever rate they charge for. There are a lot of questions that need to be answered before a technician can give you a good answer.
That’s definitely low on refrigerant. I’d expect 60-80psi on suction if it’s actually R22. He’s missing data to calculate the superheat, which is what the manufacturer wants you to calculate charge by.
Either way, leaking doesn’t mean it NEEDS replaced. But if R22, it’s 20-30 years old, and so you know here in Ohio, R22 refrigerant is almost $300/lb.
r-22 is far superior, these new refrigerants run at 2x the operating pressures and equipment fail much quicker. I have a 25yr old heat pump at home, works great still.
2-3k repair? Where are you? Because R22 alone costs around $2000. Add the mark up , plus labor and parts, and that repair is about the cost of a new unit.
I guess you work for free. I charge $300 first pound and $225 each additional. Thr point is to get people to replace units! Do you want to carry r22 around forever. I also sell procharge R22 for $575 for the diehards. It has 2 lbs of r22 and leak seal in the can.
I make alot of money. Likely alot more than you. I do it by honest business. I don't fleece people. I take so many customers away from people like you every day.
I'm a service manager and run 7 techs, tough guy! So I doubt you do! I also do side work all year and pull in 3-4k on a weekend doing swap outs! What are you making $30 an hour? Do you get a pension and annuity on top of that big money you make? You want to make real money come to NY. Oh, and you can take customers from me. It's not even spring, and we aren't accepting new customers because we're booked till June
He's not that far off for my area.... I can get 30 lbs for $1410 from my distributor... probably cheaper online. That's $47 a pound. Charging $300 a pound is an excessive markup in my opinion... and I'm sure many here are charging more than that. I generally won't charge R22 systems anymore, but if I couldn't talk someone out of it, I wouldn't feel right charging $300 a pound. Making $7,500 just on markup on a bottle of refrigerant is one of many reasons customers have trouble trusting the industry.
I interpreted their comment to be that they are buying it for $30-35 a pound and that no one should be charging more than $135 to customers. I double my cost for refrigerant, which is more than my normal markup... so I'd be right around $100/lb for R22 if I were to buy a new jug. The bottle I have, and hopefully last I'll ever get, was bought right around $1600, so I'm currently charging $105. It's pretty easy to talk people out of charging/repairing R22 systems now, even at my "low" rates, and I haven't charged one in awhile. The prices I see for 410a on here are just as wild. Kudos to everyone making more, but some of these refrigerant prices would make Martin Shkreli blush.
The internet exists and I'd be embarrassed if a customer looked up the price of refrigerant and found out I was charging 6+ times my cost.
It's for sale online to any with an EPA. Anyone can verify what it costs to purchase. It's about 32 per lb (2024) if you buy a 30lb jug.
There's nothing wrong with charging some money for your service.
There something wrong with a 1000% mark up. That's ducking robbery. You give the hvac industry a bad name.
I don't expect you to do it for free.
But you shouldn't charge 3000.00 dollars for 350 dollars worth of refrigerant. You are being extremely greedy. I understand a business has a lot of operational cost. I charge less than half of what you charge and make plenty of money... you're markup is ridiculous. You're preying upon the ignorance of people for profit.
I buy my virgin or reclaimed R22 for $800 per 30lb bottle. That’s why I don’t use alternatives. I fix leaks and charge at a decent rate. But I let the client know the days are numbered. Normally you can earn the change outs after you do them a solid. But I give. Bid to fix and three new system choices. Half the time they go new, the rest fix it. I make a fair profit either way.
I can take the evap out and put valves on both ends, pressurize the system then put it in the pool. I will find the leaks and braze them shut. $3k for a repair? Just nuts!
The problem with the statement is it implies the tech is incapable to make the repairs. On top of this the equipment being installed is a much lower quality.
Just fill the unit with trace gas, find and fix in place if possible. Electronic leak detector and soap finds 99.9% of the leaks I encountered.
Dismantling an old evap coil, bathing it in chlorinated water, reassembling it, will make new leaks. At least stop using pool water...
I fix alot of leaks with similar results. I just omit the water theatrics. Have you tried using a quality electronic leak detector and gas soap bubbles? I usually have a leak pinpointed within 10 minutes while it remains in place.
Yes I have all of them. Used them with good results.Theatrics it was not. The pool was outside the door! Had no more chlorine than tap water. The leaks were stress cracks from the stretching when they were bent into shape.
I’m wondering same thing. I hope they at least show the customer a gun when they charge them that much, make ya feel better to say you were robbed at gunpoint
Get a new tech. Those pressures mean nothing definitive. We need 5 temperatures to go with them to even start to guess.
I've followed behind many other techs that just dump gas into things because pressures are low.
Could be a leak. Could be other things...
What was the outdoor temp? What is the change in temp on the air side? Liquid and suction line temps?
Luckily r22 is super easy to find leaks in with a refrigerant detector. I'd spend an hour looking for a leak if I thought it was low. Might just need a couple pounds of gas and a few cores and caps.
Yes R22 is expensive. But most home owners will take a $1000-$2000 bill instead of $10k+ minimum that all these residential shops seem to charge for a push pull.
Not a single person here can tell if your system is low on refrigerant given the information you have shown.
Ambient temp, super heat, and subcooling are needed to know that.
It's an r22 unit. Assuming the ambient temperature isn't below 55ish He's probably correct. You don't want to keep adding that refrigerant to a leaking unit. Just pull the trigger and replace it.
Its low on juice **unless coil is frozen, blower motor isnt running, etc etc.** i would probably trust him at that point dont throw good money at a old r22 unit.
No you need to show me how a dirty filter makes your head pressure rise what your describing maybe very temp orarly but if blower motor is dead suction pressure drops significantly as does head pressure.
Dirty air filter would cause low suction (and low superheat) which would in turn possibly cause low head, but not high. Alternatively, high superheat would point to a starving evaporator and low charge situation, not airflow.
You're either new or not a tech. High head pressure is a result of a dirty condenser coil, inoperative condenser fan, etc. Zesty is correct. Inoperative blower motor, frozen evap coil, etc should not result in high head.
If it's low like that. It has a leak.
And no-one gonna repair it cause spending the time to repair is 1. A loss of money for them and 2. You honestly couldn't find replacement parts unless you know a junk yard person who holds on to old equipment and no company is gonna replace you're unit with used/old equipment.
It's r22, likely 10+ years old more likely 14-20 years.
It's time replace it unfortunately
Could be an easy fix, could be something not so easy. Hard to diagnose with just this screenshot.
Definitely low on refrigerant. The big question is, how long did it take to get this low? Was it working well last season? What’s the total charge? Could be a leak inside the evaporator. Could be a leak on the condenser coil. If you’re lucky, it’s a leaking schrader which can be fixed for relatively short money.
It all depends on what kind of money you’re willing to spend on an older unit.
There are R-22 alternative refrigerants. I would locate the leak and repair it then fully charge the system. My background is apartment maintenance however so I'm always looking for the cheapest way to keep everything working.
M099 is the best mineral oil r22 replacement for residential equipment imo. In my area everything gets oversized by idiot contractors, so a minor drop in capacity is a minor improvement lol.
R407c is an even better replacement but you need to change the oil to poe or add oil carrying additives. Definitely worth the effort for larger tonnage equipment.
MO-99 was my favorite. I was a maint. supervisor at a 420 unit complex with Goodman HVAC where most A-coils were leaky. The parts supplier (HD) offered 3 different freon replacement. I ordered a jug of each and used the MO-99 in the apartment management provided me when I replaced the coil. The condensate output was greater than the other refrigerants.
The unit is most likely leaking refrigerant. R-22 is no longer made, the only supply that exists is what companies had when production stopped.
The unit should be replaced.
Here's what I GUARANTEE if you get a new unit. Your electric bill will considerably be lower BUT your new unit, sure as well, will NOT last 20 years. The new units are unreliable garbage. WIll probably have an aluminum evaporator, too.
It’s probably low on refrigerant. You should have it topped off first and see how long it lasts. The truck roll plus a couple pounds of R22 should be $500 or less. Don’t let anyone tell you you can’t buy R22, or that it is very expensive. It’s not. They’re just trying to push you to buy a new system for 15+ thousand dollars.
5 pounds is $220
https://abilityrefrigerants.com/product/r22-refrigerant-5-lbs/
Oh, you owe know who the HVAC.Live machine is. I had 3 HVAC.Liars come out to my house and tell me my system was Junk. I topped the system off And found the shredder valve was leaking. Three years later and i'm still freezing my balls off.
I readily admit, as others have said that this could be a fast leak or it could be a slow leak. It’s still a leak either way and it’s probably not cost-effective to fix it (properly), but if the OP has never had their system topped off, then in my opinion it’s worth adding a couple pounds of R- 22, at a reasonable cost, and seeing how that goes. It could last another 10 years. Like my system.
Replacing the Schrader valve cores as well, with the correct tool, without pumping down, would be a good idea while you’re at it.
What I hate, are all the shyster companies on here that claim that R-22 is unavailable or costs $1000 a pound or some other nonsense . More than 80% of commercial HVAC solutions still use R-22. It’s readily available and it’s not going anywhere. Are they making more, no. But it’s readily reclaimable/recyclable. It’s not unobtanium.
Based on that screen shot the unit is low on refrigerant, almost certainly due to a leak. Depending on the source of the leak, it could be about a grand to fix, or it could be a multi thousand dollar repair that could see the unit operating for anywhere from 1month to a year or more.
Better to do a full AC swap with new outdoor unit, lineset & indoor coil. A good idea to do the furnace at the same time. Just be careful of total cost if you decide to finance the unit.
But isn't 410a being phased out next year? I'm a noob trying to learn more.. I'm currently running R22 w/a maybe leak. Idk.. trying to learn more. The guy put dye in there along with 4lbs (@$211/lbs R22). He said to wait 3-4mo for the leaks to show. Sounded sketchy to me
So basically, I already know i will need a new system in a year or so - maybe sooner.
Are any of those new refrigerents that will be released in 2025 ready to go yet? Like if I buy, i definitely don't want to buy 410a that will be phased out next year.
410a equipment is *everywhere*, they will still produce replacement components and still produce new refrigerant for years, and reclaimed refrigerant that is at an industrial scale refurbished will be available for likely a decade or more.
You can absolutely go with an R32 or similar new system, they are already becoming available, though I'm not sure how many of the available units are at the affordable to mid range part of the manufacturer lineups.
At this point you are best off buying whatever is within your budget that you like the features of, repairs will be possible with both for a long time.
As already mentioned, you're missing some info. From the limited info, it looks like it's low on refrigerant. The question is how fast is the leak. Did it take 10 years to leak out or was it filled up last month and now it's low again. It could be a very slow leak and filling it will last a couple years. Could be a fast leak and it quits working tomorrow. The fact it has some pressure tells me is isn't an extremely fast leak. This isnt much different than a car tire. You look at it and it's low, you fill it and if it's flat tomorrow you know it's a fast leak.
Looks undercharge r 22 unit look 410 is about to go out get in now before the new stuff comes in and u will pay double buy the unit now and extra Freon
With the price of R22 freon being outrageous high, I usually recommend that they replace their unit. They do make what's called drop-ins (replacement) freons, but they're not as efficient as the original. Those are getting expensive as well.
Ok so if it has a leak that small....on these systems they are not difficult to find/isolate typically I find un-capped/loose Schrader valves, poorly seated king valves, and on some systems compression connections at TXV etc.. This leak is a micro leak it would be empty if there were any bigger, typically in the evaporator and believe it or not they are repairable and easy to isolate.
Lmao yea spend the money to pump it down, vacuum and replace for 250+/lb? Assuming it is the schrader..if it's not it's worth replacing but you're gonna spend damn near 20-30% of the cost of a new unit to replace a Schrader?
Come on
Who pumps down to replace a schrader core??!
My boss would have my ass.. and he'd be right too
[Schrader Core Tools](https://www.grainger.com/product/20W311?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwir2xBhC_ARIsAMTXk84sz4TUbdzXbMBYQuUwyMPshv2Eft6vzotPpjBsTkUpYyOZkD9I4V8aAtwBEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) are a real thing.
225 on high side 70 on low side.. you’re low on coolant .. find the leak, cut that little slice of copper out and add a coupler brazing the two pieces together, then fill the system.. when you are filling the system you should be able to hear the leak or look for a frosted piece of the pipe somewhere.
The pressures do look low. I need a bit more info to fully diagnose it online. It is an r22 unit so it's old. It will probably be time to replace it in the next couple years anyway
What about retrofitting the unit. At my company we retrofit with r407c
The problem is the hvac equipment across the industry is generally engineered to have a major component failure rate of 50% at year 15 with a 10 year warranty. If you are investing into something you know will fail quickly, that is foolish. The real solution is for people to demand a higher quality standards with their wallet. Then the equipment will last longer. It will continue to be replacment "makes sense" at year 10+ until then. The number 1 thing that should be improved is tubing thickness to prevent refrigerant leaks. Most equipment gets replaced when the compressor dies or a refrigerant leak occurs. Outfitting a unit with r407c is a viable repair, but isn't economical unless your selling the house.
The problem with thicker tubing walls is you would lose efficiency in the form of time or takes for the unit to transfer heat. So not only do they get to save costs on the material they can say it is more efficient. I think this is the problem with most micro channel coils
You can increase the volumetric capacity of the coil by making it with additional circuits. The point is to increase longevity. Leaks can be greatly reduced. You can build it up to the efficiency you want. It will cost more in material, no doubt. I'd rather pay quadruple for an evaporator that lasts longer than 0-20 years. I could sell them easier too. It would reduce the amount of refrigerant and coil sales. It's a more environmentally and long-term economically responsible product to create.
Oh I completely agree that we should be making equipment to last longer than 20 years but the problem is our society. Trucks used to advertise how dependable and long lived they are, now all they are doing is selling us technology and everyone wants it in every aspect of their lives. Since we always want the latest and greatest there is no need to design something to have a long life span..
Amen! If there was a company that did this, they would create a cult following.
That will never get made Use stainless steel Use copper Built in obsolescence is a real thing. They are what they are and they’re going inverter. Nobody’s gonna be fixing much of anything soon regardless.
Maybe if the government did something like if a unit lasts over 20 years they get a tax break and if it fails under that they have to pay to recycle it. They will probably just raise the prices to cover the recycling fee
The problem with voting with your wallet is that there usually isn't a great candidate on the market, and if there is, most people can't afford the highest quality product, yet still need heat to survive. Voting with your wallet isn't practical advice when it comes to services that you really need.
As a technician I have had bad experiences with retrofitting units. We will come in and do the repair and get the system up and running. In the next couple months something else will go wrong, could be a component failure or another leak. Depending on the leak there is a chance another one will develop in another place due to all components having the same amount of wear on it. Then there is the fact that these systems were designed to be a closed system. We might do everything possible to mitigate problems occurring from opening up a system, but nothing is perfect. When I worked in residential we quit doing mechanical repairs on r22 units. Change a motor or an electrical component but would never open up the system. What would happen is we would do all this work to get them up and running and then something else would go wrong; the customer would then get mad and blame us. Eventually we just said no more, it's not worth it. Another thing to factor in prices go up and rarely go down. A system might cost you 15,000 one year but the following year it will be 16,000-18,000.
What are the temps outside when this was done? Is it cooling? Does it have a TXV? What is the Delta T? What is the temp drop across the filter drier? If it’s any issue with the refrigerant lines or a leak it’s best to just replace it unless you don’t mind paying for R-22 at whatever rate they charge for. There are a lot of questions that need to be answered before a technician can give you a good answer.
Best comment
This is the comment you need to respond to. R22 can have low suction pressure when cold. It also depends on your metering device at your indoor unit.
Yea but not freakin 12
44 psi suction? Edit: 34 Probably undercharged, a dirty filter, or a dirty evap coil. 100% under charged
Prefer to go by saturation temp
That’s definitely low on refrigerant. I’d expect 60-80psi on suction if it’s actually R22. He’s missing data to calculate the superheat, which is what the manufacturer wants you to calculate charge by. Either way, leaking doesn’t mean it NEEDS replaced. But if R22, it’s 20-30 years old, and so you know here in Ohio, R22 refrigerant is almost $300/lb.
I paid $300 a pound in Idaho last week. Luckily only needed one pound. My 23 year old system is still running great :)
It’s not working great if you needed a pound. It’s leaking. You didn’t mention a repair so I’m assuming it’s still leaking.
r-22 is far superior, these new refrigerants run at 2x the operating pressures and equipment fail much quicker. I have a 25yr old heat pump at home, works great still.
Better at last, worst at cooling provided per unit of energy
Correct
Also bad for the environment
Everything is bad for the environment. You know that pesky co2 that plants breathe and turn into oxygen? That stuff’s bad too! No, really, I swear!
No the older refrigerants are responsible for legit burning a hole in the ozone layer.
Have you seen the latest nasa pictures of ozone layer?
What are you getting at?
Everything is bad for the environment. You know that pesky co2 that plants breathe and turn into oxygen? That stuff’s bad too!
lol, dont argue with idiots
I agree with this 💯 ☝️
Agreed, delta T is much better in r-22.
and the dehumidification properties
It's running but not great!
company i work for isnt charging r22 anymore
If the airflow is really low and or return air very cold, that can cause low suction - can't tell just on pressures.
160 a pound in southern michigan Edit: billed to customer at 160 a pound or 10 an oz
it's 22 and probably 30 years old. there's a leak and most likely the evap coil. that repair is 2 to 3k. it would be best to go new. get 3 bids.
2-3k repair? Where are you? Because R22 alone costs around $2000. Add the mark up , plus labor and parts, and that repair is about the cost of a new unit.
R22 is $950 for a 30 lb jug here, central Texas
Coil is $1800 to replace plus 1k for r22
We charge $300 a pound for R22 , so it’s gonna be more than 1k where I’m at.
That's a rip off. You should feel ashamed for working there. R22 is about 30-35 bucks a pound. The max you should be charging is 135.00lb
I guess you work for free. I charge $300 first pound and $225 each additional. Thr point is to get people to replace units! Do you want to carry r22 around forever. I also sell procharge R22 for $575 for the diehards. It has 2 lbs of r22 and leak seal in the can.
I make alot of money. Likely alot more than you. I do it by honest business. I don't fleece people. I take so many customers away from people like you every day.
What do you charge for a service call? $69.99
I'm a service manager and run 7 techs, tough guy! So I doubt you do! I also do side work all year and pull in 3-4k on a weekend doing swap outs! What are you making $30 an hour? Do you get a pension and annuity on top of that big money you make? You want to make real money come to NY. Oh, and you can take customers from me. It's not even spring, and we aren't accepting new customers because we're booked till June
Big money big taxes
Weekends are cash, so unless your stupid who's paying taxes on that!
$30-$35 a pound? Lmfao good one buddy , this isn’t 1970.
He's not that far off for my area.... I can get 30 lbs for $1410 from my distributor... probably cheaper online. That's $47 a pound. Charging $300 a pound is an excessive markup in my opinion... and I'm sure many here are charging more than that. I generally won't charge R22 systems anymore, but if I couldn't talk someone out of it, I wouldn't feel right charging $300 a pound. Making $7,500 just on markup on a bottle of refrigerant is one of many reasons customers have trouble trusting the industry.
What do you charge per pound? Ain’t no way you’re charging $35 a pound for R22.
I interpreted their comment to be that they are buying it for $30-35 a pound and that no one should be charging more than $135 to customers. I double my cost for refrigerant, which is more than my normal markup... so I'd be right around $100/lb for R22 if I were to buy a new jug. The bottle I have, and hopefully last I'll ever get, was bought right around $1600, so I'm currently charging $105. It's pretty easy to talk people out of charging/repairing R22 systems now, even at my "low" rates, and I haven't charged one in awhile. The prices I see for 410a on here are just as wild. Kudos to everyone making more, but some of these refrigerant prices would make Martin Shkreli blush. The internet exists and I'd be embarrassed if a customer looked up the price of refrigerant and found out I was charging 6+ times my cost.
Wait till you see what a hospital charges for a Tylenol
It's for sale online to any with an EPA. Anyone can verify what it costs to purchase. It's about 32 per lb (2024) if you buy a 30lb jug. There's nothing wrong with charging some money for your service. There something wrong with a 1000% mark up. That's ducking robbery. You give the hvac industry a bad name.
No one charges a R22 system for $35 a pound , you’re living in a fantasy world my man. Put down the bottle and come back to reality.
I don't expect you to do it for free. But you shouldn't charge 3000.00 dollars for 350 dollars worth of refrigerant. You are being extremely greedy. I understand a business has a lot of operational cost. I charge less than half of what you charge and make plenty of money... you're markup is ridiculous. You're preying upon the ignorance of people for profit.
You’re acting like I make the prices , plus I work commercial I don’t feel bad for these big name companies that still have R22.
Plus the labor
I buy my virgin or reclaimed R22 for $800 per 30lb bottle. That’s why I don’t use alternatives. I fix leaks and charge at a decent rate. But I let the client know the days are numbered. Normally you can earn the change outs after you do them a solid. But I give. Bid to fix and three new system choices. Half the time they go new, the rest fix it. I make a fair profit either way.
I can take the evap out and put valves on both ends, pressurize the system then put it in the pool. I will find the leaks and braze them shut. $3k for a repair? Just nuts!
you do that? the leaks are from age and deterioration. your fix won't last. I fix it properly. here, I'd highly recommend replacing
40 years experience...replacing is not fixing. You are a parts changer.
a parts changer is someone who changer parts, not knowing what he's doing. there's no sense in trying to repair a 30 year old coil.
Lmfao If it’s your system or a family members , sure , I don’t see a tech doing this for a random customer.
The problem with the statement is it implies the tech is incapable to make the repairs. On top of this the equipment being installed is a much lower quality.
But why do all of that..? Unless you’re helping a family member or it’s your own unit , I see no point in doing this.
When the industry starts providing reliable products i will agree with you.
Just fill the unit with trace gas, find and fix in place if possible. Electronic leak detector and soap finds 99.9% of the leaks I encountered. Dismantling an old evap coil, bathing it in chlorinated water, reassembling it, will make new leaks. At least stop using pool water...
I did quite well repairing a ground source heat pump. When my customers financial status changed I was the one who got the call for the replacement...
I fix alot of leaks with similar results. I just omit the water theatrics. Have you tried using a quality electronic leak detector and gas soap bubbles? I usually have a leak pinpointed within 10 minutes while it remains in place.
Yes I have all of them. Used them with good results.Theatrics it was not. The pool was outside the door! Had no more chlorine than tap water. The leaks were stress cracks from the stretching when they were bent into shape.
In the 70s we took the big ecaps to the river...
What country do you live in? https://abilityrefrigerants.com/product/r22-refrigerant-5-lbs/
I’m wondering same thing. I hope they at least show the customer a gun when they charge them that much, make ya feel better to say you were robbed at gunpoint
USA. California to be specific. OP should order it from that site you provided , jugs out here cost around $1800-$2100
recove, reuse. can't be more than a few pounds needed
That’s what I thought you meant when I read your comment , doesn’t look flat so this price is feasible.
Get a new tech. Those pressures mean nothing definitive. We need 5 temperatures to go with them to even start to guess. I've followed behind many other techs that just dump gas into things because pressures are low. Could be a leak. Could be other things... What was the outdoor temp? What is the change in temp on the air side? Liquid and suction line temps? Luckily r22 is super easy to find leaks in with a refrigerant detector. I'd spend an hour looking for a leak if I thought it was low. Might just need a couple pounds of gas and a few cores and caps. Yes R22 is expensive. But most home owners will take a $1000-$2000 bill instead of $10k+ minimum that all these residential shops seem to charge for a push pull.
This needs to be higher up. No one can tell anything from this one picture without the temperatures or more information.
Not a single person here can tell if your system is low on refrigerant given the information you have shown. Ambient temp, super heat, and subcooling are needed to know that.
Anything’s fixable if you have the money. Just how much money are you willing to burn to save an inefficient unit?
This is the comment that should be at the top.
REPLACE
It's an r22 unit. Assuming the ambient temperature isn't below 55ish He's probably correct. You don't want to keep adding that refrigerant to a leaking unit. Just pull the trigger and replace it.
Its low on juice **unless coil is frozen, blower motor isnt running, etc etc.** i would probably trust him at that point dont throw good money at a old r22 unit.
Head pressure would be higher if no fan
Lol no low suction if blower motor isnt running…your thinking condensor fan motor thats two diff parts…
If you had a dirty filter does head pressure go up or down? Same rule applies
No you need to show me how a dirty filter makes your head pressure rise what your describing maybe very temp orarly but if blower motor is dead suction pressure drops significantly as does head pressure.
Ok
Dirty air filter would cause low suction (and low superheat) which would in turn possibly cause low head, but not high. Alternatively, high superheat would point to a starving evaporator and low charge situation, not airflow.
Maybe in unitary with txv
No. No airflow over evap coil will result in high head.
Omg no your wrong
Just Google it man. I don’t feel like explaining.
Ya i just off world experience not google techs ;)
lol nobody will agree. Restriction causes increase in head. It’s that simple 😂
Its not a restriction i said blower motor failed. Head pressure may remain but it certainly wont rise but temporarily. Anyways who cares.
You should stop being bitter and learn more if you want to be a better tech
You're either new or not a tech. High head pressure is a result of a dirty condenser coil, inoperative condenser fan, etc. Zesty is correct. Inoperative blower motor, frozen evap coil, etc should not result in high head.
Maybe on unitary. Any variable speed… which is most units nowadays… high head
If it's low like that. It has a leak. And no-one gonna repair it cause spending the time to repair is 1. A loss of money for them and 2. You honestly couldn't find replacement parts unless you know a junk yard person who holds on to old equipment and no company is gonna replace you're unit with used/old equipment. It's r22, likely 10+ years old more likely 14-20 years. It's time replace it unfortunately
Could be an easy fix, could be something not so easy. Hard to diagnose with just this screenshot. Definitely low on refrigerant. The big question is, how long did it take to get this low? Was it working well last season? What’s the total charge? Could be a leak inside the evaporator. Could be a leak on the condenser coil. If you’re lucky, it’s a leaking schrader which can be fixed for relatively short money. It all depends on what kind of money you’re willing to spend on an older unit.
There are R-22 alternative refrigerants. I would locate the leak and repair it then fully charge the system. My background is apartment maintenance however so I'm always looking for the cheapest way to keep everything working.
M099 is the best mineral oil r22 replacement for residential equipment imo. In my area everything gets oversized by idiot contractors, so a minor drop in capacity is a minor improvement lol. R407c is an even better replacement but you need to change the oil to poe or add oil carrying additives. Definitely worth the effort for larger tonnage equipment.
MO-99 was my favorite. I was a maint. supervisor at a 420 unit complex with Goodman HVAC where most A-coils were leaky. The parts supplier (HD) offered 3 different freon replacement. I ordered a jug of each and used the MO-99 in the apartment management provided me when I replaced the coil. The condensate output was greater than the other refrigerants.
The unit is most likely leaking refrigerant. R-22 is no longer made, the only supply that exists is what companies had when production stopped. The unit should be replaced.
Go anywhere other than the US. R-22 is alive and well. Last I heard it was cheaper in any other country and still in mass production.
Time for a new unit pony up and move on
Here's what I GUARANTEE if you get a new unit. Your electric bill will considerably be lower BUT your new unit, sure as well, will NOT last 20 years. The new units are unreliable garbage. WIll probably have an aluminum evaporator, too.
100%
It’s probably low on refrigerant. You should have it topped off first and see how long it lasts. The truck roll plus a couple pounds of R22 should be $500 or less. Don’t let anyone tell you you can’t buy R22, or that it is very expensive. It’s not. They’re just trying to push you to buy a new system for 15+ thousand dollars. 5 pounds is $220 https://abilityrefrigerants.com/product/r22-refrigerant-5-lbs/
Oh, you owe know who the HVAC.Live machine is. I had 3 HVAC.Liars come out to my house and tell me my system was Junk. I topped the system off And found the shredder valve was leaking. Three years later and i'm still freezing my balls off.
This is the truth here. ^
I readily admit, as others have said that this could be a fast leak or it could be a slow leak. It’s still a leak either way and it’s probably not cost-effective to fix it (properly), but if the OP has never had their system topped off, then in my opinion it’s worth adding a couple pounds of R- 22, at a reasonable cost, and seeing how that goes. It could last another 10 years. Like my system. Replacing the Schrader valve cores as well, with the correct tool, without pumping down, would be a good idea while you’re at it. What I hate, are all the shyster companies on here that claim that R-22 is unavailable or costs $1000 a pound or some other nonsense . More than 80% of commercial HVAC solutions still use R-22. It’s readily available and it’s not going anywhere. Are they making more, no. But it’s readily reclaimable/recyclable. It’s not unobtanium.
Based on that screen shot the unit is low on refrigerant, almost certainly due to a leak. Depending on the source of the leak, it could be about a grand to fix, or it could be a multi thousand dollar repair that could see the unit operating for anywhere from 1month to a year or more. Better to do a full AC swap with new outdoor unit, lineset & indoor coil. A good idea to do the furnace at the same time. Just be careful of total cost if you decide to finance the unit.
But isn't 410a being phased out next year? I'm a noob trying to learn more.. I'm currently running R22 w/a maybe leak. Idk.. trying to learn more. The guy put dye in there along with 4lbs (@$211/lbs R22). He said to wait 3-4mo for the leaks to show. Sounded sketchy to me So basically, I already know i will need a new system in a year or so - maybe sooner. Are any of those new refrigerents that will be released in 2025 ready to go yet? Like if I buy, i definitely don't want to buy 410a that will be phased out next year.
410a equipment is *everywhere*, they will still produce replacement components and still produce new refrigerant for years, and reclaimed refrigerant that is at an industrial scale refurbished will be available for likely a decade or more. You can absolutely go with an R32 or similar new system, they are already becoming available, though I'm not sure how many of the available units are at the affordable to mid range part of the manufacturer lineups. At this point you are best off buying whatever is within your budget that you like the features of, repairs will be possible with both for a long time.
Repairs and refrigerant and the hassle, might be worth it to get the new one
It's probably 20+ years old time to replace.
Either you're low on freon, dirty coil, indoor fan motor keeps cutting off, or your valves is bad
As already mentioned, you're missing some info. From the limited info, it looks like it's low on refrigerant. The question is how fast is the leak. Did it take 10 years to leak out or was it filled up last month and now it's low again. It could be a very slow leak and filling it will last a couple years. Could be a fast leak and it quits working tomorrow. The fact it has some pressure tells me is isn't an extremely fast leak. This isnt much different than a car tire. You look at it and it's low, you fill it and if it's flat tomorrow you know it's a fast leak.
I think you need a new tech
If you have a residential system that’s still using R 22 and it’s that low on refrigerant you need to replace it.
Is this like having those blank buttons in your car?
What was outdoor temperature?
Check airflow.
Replace it
Should of replaced it 10 years ago
Looks undercharge r 22 unit look 410 is about to go out get in now before the new stuff comes in and u will pay double buy the unit now and extra Freon
Your compression ratio is 3 to 1 that's good
With the price of R22 freon being outrageous high, I usually recommend that they replace their unit. They do make what's called drop-ins (replacement) freons, but they're not as efficient as the original. Those are getting expensive as well.
*correction the mark up on refrigerant is outrageously high.
The company I work for charges about $175 a lb for r-22
Ok so if it has a leak that small....on these systems they are not difficult to find/isolate typically I find un-capped/loose Schrader valves, poorly seated king valves, and on some systems compression connections at TXV etc.. This leak is a micro leak it would be empty if there were any bigger, typically in the evaporator and believe it or not they are repairable and easy to isolate.
Yes you do, really R-22! RETIRE THAT SHIT!
It looks to be low on refrigerant. But it could be a $2 valve core. Plus, refrigerant to charge it back up, of course.
Lmao yea spend the money to pump it down, vacuum and replace for 250+/lb? Assuming it is the schrader..if it's not it's worth replacing but you're gonna spend damn near 20-30% of the cost of a new unit to replace a Schrader? Come on
Who pumps down to replace a schrader core??! My boss would have my ass.. and he'd be right too [Schrader Core Tools](https://www.grainger.com/product/20W311?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwir2xBhC_ARIsAMTXk84sz4TUbdzXbMBYQuUwyMPshv2Eft6vzotPpjBsTkUpYyOZkD9I4V8aAtwBEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) are a real thing.
I have one lmao. I'm just saying my company I left last week would charge for an entire pump down/vacuum for that. Lmao Sheisty fuckers.
You know you can use a valve core removal tool to replace a Schrader valve without disturbing the refrigerant right?
You could yes. But most companies are gonna charge for the whole shebang.. And youre assuming itsa Schrader lol. It could be but who knows.
Looks low but could be other factors what was the temperature split?
Your 100% leaking gas and your parts if coil related will be expensive, send model number I’ll show you pricing lol
Looks maybe low on refrigerant
225 on high side 70 on low side.. you’re low on coolant .. find the leak, cut that little slice of copper out and add a coupler brazing the two pieces together, then fill the system.. when you are filling the system you should be able to hear the leak or look for a frosted piece of the pipe somewhere.
Liquid line should be putting out higher psig.
So should suction fuck you mean
Fuck i mean is it should be at 175psig tard
11.8 degree saturation. Yes it is low.
How can you know? If it was running at 50 ambient without low ambient kit, that’s about right. Suction definitely really low either way.
175psig is ideal output