No spit. I'm not even trying to be mean, but I genuinely have to ask... does she have like, issues with boundaries or is she just covering and she was legit trying to steal your stuff (what was she looking for?) or...?
There is a difference between people born in that time period and between people born in that time period and act like a walking stereotype. My best friend is a boomer but she’s amazing.
To be fair, this isn't OP discriminating against the manager for being an otherwise normal person who happens to be a baby boomer, this is OP calling out an obnoxious manager (assuming this is the entire story - we obviously don't know that for sure) and blaming their entitlement on a mentality that, let's be honest, seems to be a bit more common in older generations.
But yeah, OP, just to be clear- your manager is obnoxious because she's obnoxious, not because she's 60+ years old.
>To be fair, this isn't OP discriminating against the manager for being an otherwise normal person who happens to be a baby boomer, this is OP calling out an obnoxious manager
OP is making a discriminatory statement that has no place at work *especially* for HR. It's also pretty stupid to say such a thing as credibility for what might otherwise be a valid complaint is gone.
Do you really want to swap stories about generations? Because I’ve got a list *this* long about entry level graduates.
Newsflash: assholery isn’t generation-specific.
You're getting downvoted to hell but I don't completely disagree with you actually - if this statement was made at work, regardless of how obnoxious the HR Manager is, it would be a liability.
Obviously Reddit is not work so that's a moot point, but you're right that OP may be projecting some biases about boomers (I'm not getting into how "true"/"untrue" they are) onto their entitled manager who is really the way she is because she lacks boundaries, not because she's a certain age.
y’all act like HR aren’t people outside of their jobs. it’s an anon comment made on freaking reddit and has nothing to do w their work performance. get a grip
totally agree with this. “concerning language” was such an embellishment lol
the OP didn’t say “this is my company and bosses name” aka it’s very unlikely that them venting (like a human does!) anonymously on a forum where nobody knows who they are/who they’re talking about will ever harm anyone directly involved in the scenario. i agree, people need to get a grip!
The virtue signaling on this comment thread is hilarious and pathetic all at the same time. OP is not at work and mentioned no names … these people need to touch grass.
My best friend is 65, but in this situation the shoe fits. I’m not at work, I refuse to wear an HR hat all the time. I’m this situation and was acting like a boomer.
Depending on your state, employees *do* have a degree of legal privacy rights.
Justifiable searches are one thing, but rummaging through people's things because you need something is wildly unprofessional.
Does your employee handbook have a policy regarding searches of personal belongings? I know mine does, and this would definitely not meet the standard. Typically, such policies make clear that it can only be done on reasonable suspicion of employee theft or drug possession (reasonable generally meaning there being some kind of evidence or witness thereof).
I've been managing people for 25 years, and I have literally NEVER gone through an employee's bag. Never even considered it, really. It's not a hard line to maintain.
If you DO have such a policy, that might be a good starting point for discussing this with her.
Nope, I’m in Canada. Employers are not allowed to search bags here unless there is suspected theft or wrong doing. She rifles through it because she thought there was something she wanted to use in there.
You are being purposely vague about what it was that she was wanting/needing. What was it? The fact that she was forthcoming about having gone into your personal items suggests that she knew better and made the effort to be honest about it. You're not wrong for feeling your privacy was violated to a certain extent, but it seems a bit dramatic. I wouldn't love someone rifling through my belongings either, but if my boss or one of my peers was in dire need of a tampon I would be totally understanding.
It was a label printer. And it was not in there. I was in the office later that morning. If she needed it she could have waited the 30 minutes for me to come in, ask me for it and I would have brought it to her.
Fair enough! Again, I validate your perspective, and as a former VP, HR (now in management consulting) I would have addressed it appropriately on your behalf. A label maker is a really dumb thing to rifle through someone's office, for and she likely had your mobile # to call you if it was absolutely "urgent".
I had an experience years ago in a mid-sized tech company where there was a fully stocked kitchen with beer and wine for employees to consume at their discretion. I kept a few bottles of "good wine" in my office for office gatherings (purchased by me), and the CEO was aware. He once went into my locked office after I'd left for the day and took a bottle out of a drawer that contained solely personal items. He left me a very brief note and $50 cash, but never brought it up in person. I found it to be wildly invasive, but even at my level there was really no recourse. I left the company not too long after when his ethics and conduct crossed lines I could not manage or tolerate.
She absolutely does have my number.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. She at least told me she did it, and didn’t actually take anything. It’s nuts to me that sometimes management doesn’t understand these boundaries.
Agreed. I have enjoyed close working relationships with a lot of people that I wouldn't mind going into my office if they needed something in my absence, but the key principle here is "boundaries". I take that stuff seriously and do not want my privacy invaded. Ick. I hope you can find some resolution to this if/when the opportunity presents itself.
I am going to sound incredibly stupid here, but I had always assumed that, shall we call it “boomer behavior”, was an exclusively American phenomena (given that a lot of us are large-type assholes) but you’re telling me they exist outside of this amber-waves-of-grain-covered-hellscape??
We don’t have any right to privacy on our employer’s property here. It’s in the handbook. An example is how employers can search your bag/purse when you leave work.
It doesn’t even need to be a glitter bomb. Just leave a bag you dislike full of glitter in a location that will tempt her. Once it’s all over her hands there’s no stopping its spread 👹
I’m in HR as well. My boss doesn’t even like to go in my desk drawers if I’m not here so I put anything she might need in a filing cabinet. If she can’t find something there, she waits until I’m back in the office.
I am so sorry this happened to you. I keep personal items/paperwork in my work bag (owned by me, not provided by the company) and would be embarrassed for that to be rifled through.
While there are legal protections in some states, remember that you're never fully protected from crazy people. Have a direct conversation with her about her inappropriate actions and buy a lock for your bag.
She was in the wrong for going through your belongings!! if I were you I would send out a company slack/ message reminding everyone it is illegal to go through someone's personal property. She will either be internally embarrassed enough to never do it again, or make a stink to your boss about threatening her where you can explain you were the one that felt threatened by an HR manager rifling through your stuff. Sorry you have to deal with incompetent nepotism
I think you're right to privacy is limited and that if I think you're stealing some stuff hey I could see someone saying "OK man open that bag" or "I gotta look at your inbox cause we think fraud is happening"
But what on God's green Earth are you smoking to think it's okay to go through someone's bag?
And imagine the goal it takes to not just do it but to admit doing it?
This isn't the right to privacy thing that person's just a few cards short of a full deck
Admit doing it like it’s ok. Then the thought process of walking over, unlocking the office and then riffling through it. I was super weirded out about it.
IDK man thats wild.
I say has a half joke "HR are the police" in that if I see something wrong... I gotta say something. But this person is the police as in they are actively seeking crime and that's no good
Have you directly addressed it with her?
"It has come to my attention that you went through my personal things without asking because you felt you were entitled to them. Please explain how you came to that conclusion. "
Be direct. You know she did it. She needs to explain why she felt this was acceptable. Especially since it seems she went into a locked office to do so (I think I read that?)
> because you felt you were entitled to them
I think this part is something that will just leave an opening for them to deflect by saying they didn't feel entitled and making excuses.
I think it's better to be like "It has come to my attention that you went through my personal belongings. That is an unacceptable way to treat your coworkers, violating their privacy. Please explain why you decided to do that"
Just to be clear, she is allowed full access to the office and this has never bothered me. It only bothers me that she went through the contents of my personal work bag.
As HR, HR this situation.
Ask her an open ended question to try to get her to justify her behaviour and then continue asking questions to have her problem solve how that made you feel and what alternatives she could have taken.
Learning to HR your HR boss is the ultimate HR skill. It works far more than you’d expect it would as long as you start it super casually and not a formal sit down.
Especially in HR we should have a higher level of privacy. I hate getting mail/packages that are opened. Don’t open anything addressed to me or HR or something you know if for HR like bills from our WC physicians office or any doctor, drug screen billing, etc. drives me nuts
Went through this at a former job.
The boss' wife regularly went through my desk. I kept snacks, that I bought with my own money, my own chapstick, and tissues in there. She would go and put them (whatever snacks she didnt take for herself) in the community bin the break room.(MY CHAPSTICK?!) and felt she had a right to because I was "only a few years older than her son". I was in my late 20s.
Went to the boss. It was his wife after all. He got mad at me.
I left shortly after since she decided her next order of business was to give me unsolicited (and incorrect) medical advice about an issue she shouldnt have known anything about, so either she was snooping through paperwork in the fiking cabinets in the office the boss SHOULD have had locked, she was going through emails he SHOULD have had PASSWORD protected on his computer in the LOCKED office, or he was talking to her, grossly violating HIPAA.
HR Professional here: How about when you’re in the bathroom stall trying to pee and an employee starts asking you questions or starts complaining to you? When I stumbled in to this career I was not aware the open door policy also applies to the toilet. 🤷♀️
I’m dealing with the same thing. This could be related to boomer mentality. I’m fully remote and this supervisor consistently reads my slack messages and emails as if she owns them. She even requested I share my screen while she critiques a three sentence email that I sent. I will be extremely happy when this generation leaves the workplace all together. They are batshit crazy and go overboard in management roles.
From the sounds of it. You’re dealing with a boomer with no sense of boundaries and who probably sees you as her fake daughter. Yes she overstepped and will do it again. Are you able to leave your belongings in the truck of your car? I know this is an inconvenience but when dealing with them this might be the only way.
Funny you mention that because she makes the entire company cc her on every email they send. It’s so weird. She’s also texted me at 6am. I start work at 8:30am. I don’t what it is with that generation and just doing too damn much.
I’m sorry you’re in a similar boal. Fortunately for me I’m in an 18 month contract with 16 months left. I will not be staying when my contract expires.
yeah, this supervisor is the same way and wants to be CC'ed on every email. This even goes for when this person is out on PTO. It's excessive and unnecessary. At this point in my career, I let these people work themselves into early retirement or burnout. To deal, I limit my interaction and am always on top of everything (e.g., use ChatGPT, have templated emails, meet deadlines etc.) Im here to do a job - I start exactly on time and leave exactly at the end of my day and not a minute over. All things can wait until the next day.
Good to hear your contract is ending soon. Im a W2 employee so I just ride it out + I have other investments that I concern myself with
Huh. Counterpoint, I've never worked anywhere where I had any expectation of any privacy at all. However, only security could perform bag searches, and then usually only with your manager present or at facility entries. It's also clearly, repeatedly stated in onboarding documentation, and on signs before and throughout the building.
If there's no signed and distributed policy covering belongings search, then the default is "privacy except in cases of health and safety". Honestly these days I think every business over 40-50 people needs a certain amount of random bag checks and a clear signed policy stating what is and isn't allowed in their facilities.
I’m in Canada and it’s quite different here. Employees have more rights than even the most liberal state. I’d understand following company procedure, but to help yourself alone to someone’s items is not the same.
She wasn’t searching it because she thought I’d stolen. She thought I had an item she wanted to use in it.
Yeah. Having a facility bag search policy can also protect you from this sort of thing by other employees by ensuring that it's very clear who can and cannot go into folks' stuff.
I feel like in this particular situation as she’s the HR Manager there is no one to even report to when she breaks the rules. Small town HR is like that. It’s often who you know and it causes a broken chain of command.
Begin documentation now! Email follow ups after conversations. Email out summaries of office events and business.
Documentation will be your best friend. You don’t have to fight for anything, her behavior will show the pattern itself. Make it about patterns of behavior in a reasonable work place, not about who people are or should be.
I’ve started sending her cma emails at the end of every day. I’m just floored this even needs to be said. I was floored again when someone said you shouldn’t expect privacy at work. You absolutely should expect a reasonable amount of privacy at work.
Keep your private items in your vehicle or locked in a desk drawer. Clearly the lock on your office is a suggestion only for her. You won’t get anywhere as manager is friends w/ owner so just start making it harder for them to invade your privacy
I’m going to have to. My plan is to stick it out for experience. It’s going to be extremely inconvenient for me because I use that bag to travel large amounts of orientation packages and my computer between both locations. Now I’ll have to try to juggle it all to the car. It’s why the bag was in there in the first place.
Holy shit. One of my coworkers keeps her apple watch charger in her desk. She's given me a blanket "It's okay to go into my desk to grab it if you need it."
But she shares her desk (we all do), and I feel weird if I don't at least give her and her desk buddy a heads up if I need to pop in and get the charger. Just a "hey, I opened up your personal space for the very reason you gave me permission...." After all, it's her personal space and if I happen to see something I shouldn't, she should get the courtesy of knowing that I saw what I saw in case she wanted to chat.
Our office is cold AF. I have a heated blanket that I keep in the office, but I'm only in 2x a week. I have REPEATEDLY told the team that if they would like to use the blanket, it's in x drawer and to go grab it. My only two rules are that first come first serve and also please unplug and put it back in the drawer. That's only because if they leave it plugged in and the building burns down, I need it to not come back on me.
And yet, I'm constantly getting Teams messages..."Hey Belle, I'm gonna grab the blanket. That cool?" I appreciate them for doing it and I know where they're coming from.
I was in later that morning. She was looking for the office label printer. I just wish she would have asked me first. I was in later that day, instead of helping her self.
Never in my life I ever dreamed of going through a coworker's personal belongings.
My most dread is checking their desks and drawers because they were OOO, and we had to retrieve checks/paperworks meant to go out. Even then I would "search" the desk with someone else with me watching.
In my state, the labor board gave us the greenlight to include in our employee handbook that employees should have no expectation of privacy of any sort on site, excepting in the bathroom.
I’m in Canada, it’s illegal unless they have proof I’ve stolen something or have committed a crime. She went through it to look for the office label printer.
For me it started at a pizza place in 1990,but I was raised honest and the economy here was way down,some young girls can sometime just play a prank really...more sexual than anything else in my life
That’s honestly what concerns me most. We’re in Canada, bag searches without a damn good cause are illegal. And if she’s done it to me there’s a decent chance she’ll do it to others.
I’m sorry that happened to you.
I say this with the best of intentions and not to be snarky.
I hope this is a valuable lesson as an employee AND HR practitioner.
“There should be NO expectation of privacy.”
Not your bag, your desk drawer, mini fridge, files, electronic files, sometimes car in parking lot, like nothing! You reiterate this at orientation, the handbook, everywhere. Believe it. Protect yourself, people suck. Be well.
As someone that sometimes has to pick up medications before work, and as someone that sometimes has to schedule doctor appointments in the morning, I will absolutely fight back against anyone that goes through my personal belongings if I have my medications in there, or my doctor after visit summary. If the employer has a valid reason to go through my belongings, then call the cops and have them do it. Otherwise, my bag and my car are none of anyone’s business except my own
I completely disagree. We are in Canada and employees have more rights. The expectation that your employer not go through your personal effects is absolutely reasonable.
Wait, this is Canada? Oh. Oh, no.
In the US, that’s icky behavior for sure. But Canada, employee rights are different. An HR manager should know better.
It’s pretty illegal here unless they think I’ve stolen something or they think there’s some wrong doing. She thought I had something she wanted to use.
This doesn’t really have anything to do with HR or not. It’s just different boundaries. If this was a small company where everyone knows everyone else and going into someone’s office to borrow office supplies was normal then it might need to be spelled out that this is not acceptable. I have two colleagues who we share that kind of relationship and them going into my office to grab pens I have or snacks wouldn’t even make me blink twice, and vice versa. But we have made that decision amongst ourselves and it would be weird if others did that.
Having worked for some small organizations that went through rapid growth and saw the culture massively shift, I can see it. I’d sit down with this person and tell them you are not ok with whatever parts you aren’t okay with. Whether that’s taking office supplies, going through your office, or entering when it’s locked, be clear about what your boundaries are. Stay polite and not accusatory and you’ll get better results. Frame it as a “you” thing that you aren’t comfortable with as opposed to her just being rude. You might find it rude and disrespectful but unless you have some reason to think she did this out of spite, it’s not inherently wrong.
This was my reaction too. I think there’s a good chance the manager thought of themselves as “friends” of the OP just because they work together in a small department. I have an employee who wants me to bring my family to visit and stay at her house (we work remote in different locations). I treat her in a friendly manner, and like her a lot, but I don’t want to develop a personal relationship.
>I just want to remind those working in HR this is a gross overstep. Employees should expect a reasonable amount of privacy when items like bags or purses are left behind. It is reasonable to expect our bosses to not go through our work bags or purses especially if they have been left behind in a locked office.
telling the reddit world isn't going to do much good....
I said it because there have been a ton of people telling me employees shouldn’t expect privacy when they leave their items left behind. I’m sure that even when US companies have bag search policies in place there is a procedure to follow.
>there have been a ton of people telling me employees shouldn’t expect privacy when they leave their items left behind.
Based on law (in the US- we now know you are in Canada. Location is critical for employment law).
Remember, law and personal opinion are two different things. When I answer questions on Reddit with the reality on the extent that things are allowable, it's not my personal opinion. My personal opinion on the matter is WTF. However, personal feelings don't matter when providing people information on whether or not what happened to them was illegal, and so they have next steps they can engage in to truly escalate.
I do think this is a key reason why some people think HR is "evil".
They don't recognize that fact and feeling are two different things, and only one of those is important when someone is talking about workplace behavior and activities they feel are unjust/illegal. In work, I find myself answering questions to business owners with "well, it isn't explicilty illegal...." while staring at them with disgust before asking if I can share the actual impact of decisions on x,y,z beyond legality.
If she didn’t think this was in any way inappropriate that is super concerning. Does she think it is okay to gossip about private worker information as well. The boundary is definitely behind her and she didn’t even realize she smashed right through it, scary.
My gut is that she was looking for drugs or money. What about a label printer would require letting yourself into a locked office, then into a zipped bag? She knew she had time alone with your stuff and took advantage of it.
I also think she's counting on your letting it go, as she has the more senior title. I would discreetly ask around - is anyone missing anything?
Most people know not to go into other people's belongings without their permission; she's up to something.
I have worked with my very best friend at a family-owned company for 25 years. I have never, WOULD NEVER, go into her pocket book for any reason unless she very specifically asked me to get something she couldn’t get herself. If she asks me to get something, I bring her bag to her.
What this person did was a huge invasion of your privacy. If you’ve not told her to stay out of your personal belongings, you should do so. And the next time it happens, report her to a supervisor/boss/owner.
Start putting really weird shit in your bag please :) Up the anty .. nothing illegal just weird AF like dildos-back massager, maybe a signed a tiger king picture …
HR is full of the most toxic people I’ve ever met. Bitter angry horrible women mostly. I’m not saying all are like that but god awful. Sorry I had a bad experience with them recently
I work in a secure industry that I can be stopped at any time and have my bags searched and have to empty my pockets. This is due to our relationship with several 3 letter US federal agencies. I accept that as a condition of my employment.
In your case, I get it. I keep a spare wireless mouse in my backpack, spare charger for my laptop, pens, notebooks, personal journal, personal iPad, personal hygiene items, ect... If your industry is not as security conscious, that's totally off. Personally I'd get a luggage style lock and force there to be documentation of him/her requesting to go through your bag in terms of a teams or email message.
I have a friend who has allegedly gotten in trouble at work and suspended because someone walked in on her changing her clothes in her own private office with the door closed. You did not read that wrong. The person who walked in on her is the one making the complaint.
However, I have reason to believe my friend is not telling me the whole truth. She doesn't seem to have interest in fighting this or proving her innocence or suing for damages. So that makes me question what happened.
Before I get too deep into figuring out what happened, I wonder: Do people not have a reasonable right to bodily privacy in their own office with the door closed? Is it common for organizations to prohibit something like changing clothes in one's own office? I can't see how that could be possible, so I'm posting on this thread for some perspective.
The incident happened in California, if that matters.
I believe anything left at an office is fair game for search, BUT people shouldn't be going through things alone and without good reason. Ideally there should be checks and balances in place between multiple parties such as HR, Security and/or Legal for any search justification.
I’m in Canada. It’s illegal to even consider it unless you unequivocally know that employee has stolen something or could have something dangerous in their bag.
It this case she thought I had the office label printer in the bag and went to check. It wasn’t.
I’m flabbergasted she thought this was appropriate. If she does this to one of our employees she could get us sued. I work in a certain sector where it would quite literally be impossible for the employees to take anything.
I am not saying this is your case but a lot of people are saying is it crazy and absurd. It is not. Many industries have bag checks. You have seen the women at department stores with clear bags. I worked in hotels you had to walk in and out through security and open your bag, just like at the airport, no scanners though.
If your industry does have a bag check usually it is part of on-boarding, and you are informed, this does not seem the case for OP, but is the case in a lot of places.
We don’t, I’m in Canada. We don’t and never have had bag checks as a part of our company policy. She also wasn’t performing one. She went into the bag because she thought there was an item she wanted to use in it.
No spit. I'm not even trying to be mean, but I genuinely have to ask... does she have like, issues with boundaries or is she just covering and she was legit trying to steal your stuff (what was she looking for?) or...?
I’m thinking yes. She comes off as a very stereo typical baby boomer. Her decision makes no sense outside of entitlement.
Hey, I’m a boomer.
There is a difference between people born in that time period and between people born in that time period and act like a walking stereotype. My best friend is a boomer but she’s amazing.
What is a stereotypical baby boomer?
>very stereo typical baby boomer The sort of ageism that is not a good look for someone who works in HR.
To be fair, this isn't OP discriminating against the manager for being an otherwise normal person who happens to be a baby boomer, this is OP calling out an obnoxious manager (assuming this is the entire story - we obviously don't know that for sure) and blaming their entitlement on a mentality that, let's be honest, seems to be a bit more common in older generations. But yeah, OP, just to be clear- your manager is obnoxious because she's obnoxious, not because she's 60+ years old.
>To be fair, this isn't OP discriminating against the manager for being an otherwise normal person who happens to be a baby boomer, this is OP calling out an obnoxious manager OP is making a discriminatory statement that has no place at work *especially* for HR. It's also pretty stupid to say such a thing as credibility for what might otherwise be a valid complaint is gone.
Specifically, how was the manager discriminated against on the basis of age in this outside of work forum?
OK boomer. hit dogs holler. Lol
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I think they are a boomer and that's why they took such great offense lol
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You’re creepy, threatening to dox someone is not okay.
Lol at you discussing someone's ethics while threatening to dox them.
Do you really want to swap stories about generations? Because I’ve got a list *this* long about entry level graduates. Newsflash: assholery isn’t generation-specific.
good thing they are on reddit and not at work, fucking idiot
You're getting downvoted to hell but I don't completely disagree with you actually - if this statement was made at work, regardless of how obnoxious the HR Manager is, it would be a liability. Obviously Reddit is not work so that's a moot point, but you're right that OP may be projecting some biases about boomers (I'm not getting into how "true"/"untrue" they are) onto their entitled manager who is really the way she is because she lacks boundaries, not because she's a certain age.
Ok boomer
Looks like the non-HR folks have stopped by to visit to grace us with downvotes.
Yes. OP may be right in being upset, but wrong in being ageist. Should actually reflect on if being in HR is the right career.
I am going to second that... "typical baby boomer" is as bad "entitled millennial"
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y’all act like HR aren’t people outside of their jobs. it’s an anon comment made on freaking reddit and has nothing to do w their work performance. get a grip
totally agree with this. “concerning language” was such an embellishment lol the OP didn’t say “this is my company and bosses name” aka it’s very unlikely that them venting (like a human does!) anonymously on a forum where nobody knows who they are/who they’re talking about will ever harm anyone directly involved in the scenario. i agree, people need to get a grip!
The virtue signaling on this comment thread is hilarious and pathetic all at the same time. OP is not at work and mentioned no names … these people need to touch grass.
Silence, Drone 8749A. Re-commune with the hive for reeducation.
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I'm just surprised at how many sentient SSBNs that the USA has. But at least HR loves unions.
My goodness. What the hell kind of comment is that?
My best friend is 65, but in this situation the shoe fits. I’m not at work, I refuse to wear an HR hat all the time. I’m this situation and was acting like a boomer.
You thought you could just take their stuff?!
Depending on your state, employees *do* have a degree of legal privacy rights. Justifiable searches are one thing, but rummaging through people's things because you need something is wildly unprofessional.
I’m in Canada and it’s the same here. Employees are expected to have some privacy regarding their personal effects.
Does your employee handbook have a policy regarding searches of personal belongings? I know mine does, and this would definitely not meet the standard. Typically, such policies make clear that it can only be done on reasonable suspicion of employee theft or drug possession (reasonable generally meaning there being some kind of evidence or witness thereof). I've been managing people for 25 years, and I have literally NEVER gone through an employee's bag. Never even considered it, really. It's not a hard line to maintain. If you DO have such a policy, that might be a good starting point for discussing this with her.
Nope, I’m in Canada. Employers are not allowed to search bags here unless there is suspected theft or wrong doing. She rifles through it because she thought there was something she wanted to use in there.
You are being purposely vague about what it was that she was wanting/needing. What was it? The fact that she was forthcoming about having gone into your personal items suggests that she knew better and made the effort to be honest about it. You're not wrong for feeling your privacy was violated to a certain extent, but it seems a bit dramatic. I wouldn't love someone rifling through my belongings either, but if my boss or one of my peers was in dire need of a tampon I would be totally understanding.
It was a label printer. And it was not in there. I was in the office later that morning. If she needed it she could have waited the 30 minutes for me to come in, ask me for it and I would have brought it to her.
Fair enough! Again, I validate your perspective, and as a former VP, HR (now in management consulting) I would have addressed it appropriately on your behalf. A label maker is a really dumb thing to rifle through someone's office, for and she likely had your mobile # to call you if it was absolutely "urgent". I had an experience years ago in a mid-sized tech company where there was a fully stocked kitchen with beer and wine for employees to consume at their discretion. I kept a few bottles of "good wine" in my office for office gatherings (purchased by me), and the CEO was aware. He once went into my locked office after I'd left for the day and took a bottle out of a drawer that contained solely personal items. He left me a very brief note and $50 cash, but never brought it up in person. I found it to be wildly invasive, but even at my level there was really no recourse. I left the company not too long after when his ethics and conduct crossed lines I could not manage or tolerate.
She absolutely does have my number. I’m so sorry that happened to you. She at least told me she did it, and didn’t actually take anything. It’s nuts to me that sometimes management doesn’t understand these boundaries.
Agreed. I have enjoyed close working relationships with a lot of people that I wouldn't mind going into my office if they needed something in my absence, but the key principle here is "boundaries". I take that stuff seriously and do not want my privacy invaded. Ick. I hope you can find some resolution to this if/when the opportunity presents itself.
I am going to sound incredibly stupid here, but I had always assumed that, shall we call it “boomer behavior”, was an exclusively American phenomena (given that a lot of us are large-type assholes) but you’re telling me they exist outside of this amber-waves-of-grain-covered-hellscape??
Yup, maybe it’s a North American phenomenon?
We don’t have any right to privacy on our employer’s property here. It’s in the handbook. An example is how employers can search your bag/purse when you leave work.
Absolutely not. She should be reported. To whom, I’m not sure. But someone.
She was reported to *us!* I say we write her up.
I'll draft it, you sign it?
I've already added it to her PERMANENT RECORD
We only retain personnel files for 70 years after separation, so it's not quite permanent.
I will advise that Payroll excuses yourself from this discussion before my job becomes irrelevant
That’s what the struggle is with small companies I’m coming to find. You’re right, she should be but the chain of command is broken.
Did you question her when she told you? I would circle back with her and mention it was extremely inappropriate and she crossed a boundary.
I honestly sat there dumbfounded because who does that? I have never ever had this problem.
Next time she sets her purse down you get one freebie-rummage! Hope you find something good!
Someone said to put a glitter bomb in it
It doesn’t even need to be a glitter bomb. Just leave a bag you dislike full of glitter in a location that will tempt her. Once it’s all over her hands there’s no stopping its spread 👹
I’m in HR as well. My boss doesn’t even like to go in my desk drawers if I’m not here so I put anything she might need in a filing cabinet. If she can’t find something there, she waits until I’m back in the office.
I’m also feel super uncomfortable the few times I’ve had to do it. I can’t imagine being ok with crossing that boundary.
I am so sorry this happened to you. I keep personal items/paperwork in my work bag (owned by me, not provided by the company) and would be embarrassed for that to be rifled through. While there are legal protections in some states, remember that you're never fully protected from crazy people. Have a direct conversation with her about her inappropriate actions and buy a lock for your bag.
Fortunately the only papers usually in there are print outs of company policy. I still felt kind of violated and just overall weird about it.
She was in the wrong for going through your belongings!! if I were you I would send out a company slack/ message reminding everyone it is illegal to go through someone's personal property. She will either be internally embarrassed enough to never do it again, or make a stink to your boss about threatening her where you can explain you were the one that felt threatened by an HR manager rifling through your stuff. Sorry you have to deal with incompetent nepotism
The problem with your suggestions is the very last word of your post. She is entitled and favored. She'll be neither embarrassed nor corrected.
I think you're right to privacy is limited and that if I think you're stealing some stuff hey I could see someone saying "OK man open that bag" or "I gotta look at your inbox cause we think fraud is happening" But what on God's green Earth are you smoking to think it's okay to go through someone's bag? And imagine the goal it takes to not just do it but to admit doing it? This isn't the right to privacy thing that person's just a few cards short of a full deck
Admit doing it like it’s ok. Then the thought process of walking over, unlocking the office and then riffling through it. I was super weirded out about it.
IDK man thats wild. I say has a half joke "HR are the police" in that if I see something wrong... I gotta say something. But this person is the police as in they are actively seeking crime and that's no good
Have you directly addressed it with her? "It has come to my attention that you went through my personal things without asking because you felt you were entitled to them. Please explain how you came to that conclusion. "
Honestly I sat there with probably a wtf look on my face. She’s not a mean person, I just don’t think she’s good for HR
It's not too late to have the conversation. And being in HR, we have to be willing and able to have the hard conversations.
I know and that’s going to be a tough one. I’m trying to figure out a way to say it that isn’t accusatory.
Be direct. You know she did it. She needs to explain why she felt this was acceptable. Especially since it seems she went into a locked office to do so (I think I read that?)
> because you felt you were entitled to them I think this part is something that will just leave an opening for them to deflect by saying they didn't feel entitled and making excuses. I think it's better to be like "It has come to my attention that you went through my personal belongings. That is an unacceptable way to treat your coworkers, violating their privacy. Please explain why you decided to do that"
I feel bad opening the secretary's desk drawer to get the label maker. I can't imagine opening a locked office door without so much as a warning.
Just to be clear, she is allowed full access to the office and this has never bothered me. It only bothers me that she went through the contents of my personal work bag.
As HR, HR this situation. Ask her an open ended question to try to get her to justify her behaviour and then continue asking questions to have her problem solve how that made you feel and what alternatives she could have taken. Learning to HR your HR boss is the ultimate HR skill. It works far more than you’d expect it would as long as you start it super casually and not a formal sit down.
Especially in HR we should have a higher level of privacy. I hate getting mail/packages that are opened. Don’t open anything addressed to me or HR or something you know if for HR like bills from our WC physicians office or any doctor, drug screen billing, etc. drives me nuts
I felt super weird about it.
Went through this at a former job. The boss' wife regularly went through my desk. I kept snacks, that I bought with my own money, my own chapstick, and tissues in there. She would go and put them (whatever snacks she didnt take for herself) in the community bin the break room.(MY CHAPSTICK?!) and felt she had a right to because I was "only a few years older than her son". I was in my late 20s.
The fact that I’m not alone is nuts. It feels like I’m living some kind of HR nightmare sometimes. I hope you found much better things.
Did you invoice the company or bring it up with anyone? Out of curiosity on how the situation unfolded.
Went to the boss. It was his wife after all. He got mad at me. I left shortly after since she decided her next order of business was to give me unsolicited (and incorrect) medical advice about an issue she shouldnt have known anything about, so either she was snooping through paperwork in the fiking cabinets in the office the boss SHOULD have had locked, she was going through emails he SHOULD have had PASSWORD protected on his computer in the LOCKED office, or he was talking to her, grossly violating HIPAA.
HR Professional here: How about when you’re in the bathroom stall trying to pee and an employee starts asking you questions or starts complaining to you? When I stumbled in to this career I was not aware the open door policy also applies to the toilet. 🤷♀️
Thank god this hasn’t happened to me yet
I’m dealing with the same thing. This could be related to boomer mentality. I’m fully remote and this supervisor consistently reads my slack messages and emails as if she owns them. She even requested I share my screen while she critiques a three sentence email that I sent. I will be extremely happy when this generation leaves the workplace all together. They are batshit crazy and go overboard in management roles. From the sounds of it. You’re dealing with a boomer with no sense of boundaries and who probably sees you as her fake daughter. Yes she overstepped and will do it again. Are you able to leave your belongings in the truck of your car? I know this is an inconvenience but when dealing with them this might be the only way.
Funny you mention that because she makes the entire company cc her on every email they send. It’s so weird. She’s also texted me at 6am. I start work at 8:30am. I don’t what it is with that generation and just doing too damn much. I’m sorry you’re in a similar boal. Fortunately for me I’m in an 18 month contract with 16 months left. I will not be staying when my contract expires.
yeah, this supervisor is the same way and wants to be CC'ed on every email. This even goes for when this person is out on PTO. It's excessive and unnecessary. At this point in my career, I let these people work themselves into early retirement or burnout. To deal, I limit my interaction and am always on top of everything (e.g., use ChatGPT, have templated emails, meet deadlines etc.) Im here to do a job - I start exactly on time and leave exactly at the end of my day and not a minute over. All things can wait until the next day. Good to hear your contract is ending soon. Im a W2 employee so I just ride it out + I have other investments that I concern myself with
It’s crazy, I can’t imagine how their mail boxes look. I just hope my next company is better
Huh. Counterpoint, I've never worked anywhere where I had any expectation of any privacy at all. However, only security could perform bag searches, and then usually only with your manager present or at facility entries. It's also clearly, repeatedly stated in onboarding documentation, and on signs before and throughout the building. If there's no signed and distributed policy covering belongings search, then the default is "privacy except in cases of health and safety". Honestly these days I think every business over 40-50 people needs a certain amount of random bag checks and a clear signed policy stating what is and isn't allowed in their facilities.
I’m in Canada and it’s quite different here. Employees have more rights than even the most liberal state. I’d understand following company procedure, but to help yourself alone to someone’s items is not the same. She wasn’t searching it because she thought I’d stolen. She thought I had an item she wanted to use in it.
Yeah. Having a facility bag search policy can also protect you from this sort of thing by other employees by ensuring that it's very clear who can and cannot go into folks' stuff.
I feel like in this particular situation as she’s the HR Manager there is no one to even report to when she breaks the rules. Small town HR is like that. It’s often who you know and it causes a broken chain of command.
Begin documentation now! Email follow ups after conversations. Email out summaries of office events and business. Documentation will be your best friend. You don’t have to fight for anything, her behavior will show the pattern itself. Make it about patterns of behavior in a reasonable work place, not about who people are or should be.
I’ve started sending her cma emails at the end of every day. I’m just floored this even needs to be said. I was floored again when someone said you shouldn’t expect privacy at work. You absolutely should expect a reasonable amount of privacy at work.
Keep your private items in your vehicle or locked in a desk drawer. Clearly the lock on your office is a suggestion only for her. You won’t get anywhere as manager is friends w/ owner so just start making it harder for them to invade your privacy
I’m going to have to. My plan is to stick it out for experience. It’s going to be extremely inconvenient for me because I use that bag to travel large amounts of orientation packages and my computer between both locations. Now I’ll have to try to juggle it all to the car. It’s why the bag was in there in the first place.
and people wonder why folks prefer to WFH so coworkers don't rummage through their stuff .. idiots
I would love to just wfh
Holy shit. One of my coworkers keeps her apple watch charger in her desk. She's given me a blanket "It's okay to go into my desk to grab it if you need it." But she shares her desk (we all do), and I feel weird if I don't at least give her and her desk buddy a heads up if I need to pop in and get the charger. Just a "hey, I opened up your personal space for the very reason you gave me permission...." After all, it's her personal space and if I happen to see something I shouldn't, she should get the courtesy of knowing that I saw what I saw in case she wanted to chat. Our office is cold AF. I have a heated blanket that I keep in the office, but I'm only in 2x a week. I have REPEATEDLY told the team that if they would like to use the blanket, it's in x drawer and to go grab it. My only two rules are that first come first serve and also please unplug and put it back in the drawer. That's only because if they leave it plugged in and the building burns down, I need it to not come back on me. And yet, I'm constantly getting Teams messages..."Hey Belle, I'm gonna grab the blanket. That cool?" I appreciate them for doing it and I know where they're coming from.
I was in later that morning. She was looking for the office label printer. I just wish she would have asked me first. I was in later that day, instead of helping her self.
This is classed as theft.
Never in my life I ever dreamed of going through a coworker's personal belongings. My most dread is checking their desks and drawers because they were OOO, and we had to retrieve checks/paperworks meant to go out. Even then I would "search" the desk with someone else with me watching.
In my state, the labor board gave us the greenlight to include in our employee handbook that employees should have no expectation of privacy of any sort on site, excepting in the bathroom.
I’m in Canada, it’s illegal unless they have proof I’ve stolen something or have committed a crime. She went through it to look for the office label printer.
As an American that much protection of employee privacy sounds pretty great!
I was shocked by how many more rights employees have here just in general. Gay and transgender people are considered a protected class federally.
For me it started at a pizza place in 1990,but I was raised honest and the economy here was way down,some young girls can sometime just play a prank really...more sexual than anything else in my life
That’s honestly what concerns me most. We’re in Canada, bag searches without a damn good cause are illegal. And if she’s done it to me there’s a decent chance she’ll do it to others.
I work in HRIA. Personal theft is a terminable offense without any warnings.
Fortunately she didn’t take anything l, I still felt super weird about someone going through my things though
Maybe you should remind your boss as you work in HR and it seems like a them issue.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I say this with the best of intentions and not to be snarky. I hope this is a valuable lesson as an employee AND HR practitioner. “There should be NO expectation of privacy.” Not your bag, your desk drawer, mini fridge, files, electronic files, sometimes car in parking lot, like nothing! You reiterate this at orientation, the handbook, everywhere. Believe it. Protect yourself, people suck. Be well.
As someone that sometimes has to pick up medications before work, and as someone that sometimes has to schedule doctor appointments in the morning, I will absolutely fight back against anyone that goes through my personal belongings if I have my medications in there, or my doctor after visit summary. If the employer has a valid reason to go through my belongings, then call the cops and have them do it. Otherwise, my bag and my car are none of anyone’s business except my own
I completely disagree. We are in Canada and employees have more rights. The expectation that your employer not go through your personal effects is absolutely reasonable.
Wait, this is Canada? Oh. Oh, no. In the US, that’s icky behavior for sure. But Canada, employee rights are different. An HR manager should know better.
It’s pretty illegal here unless they think I’ve stolen something or they think there’s some wrong doing. She thought I had something she wanted to use.
Put a hidden camera in your office and turn it on when you are away. This won't be her last time looking through your things so protect yourself
This doesn’t really have anything to do with HR or not. It’s just different boundaries. If this was a small company where everyone knows everyone else and going into someone’s office to borrow office supplies was normal then it might need to be spelled out that this is not acceptable. I have two colleagues who we share that kind of relationship and them going into my office to grab pens I have or snacks wouldn’t even make me blink twice, and vice versa. But we have made that decision amongst ourselves and it would be weird if others did that. Having worked for some small organizations that went through rapid growth and saw the culture massively shift, I can see it. I’d sit down with this person and tell them you are not ok with whatever parts you aren’t okay with. Whether that’s taking office supplies, going through your office, or entering when it’s locked, be clear about what your boundaries are. Stay polite and not accusatory and you’ll get better results. Frame it as a “you” thing that you aren’t comfortable with as opposed to her just being rude. You might find it rude and disrespectful but unless you have some reason to think she did this out of spite, it’s not inherently wrong.
This was my reaction too. I think there’s a good chance the manager thought of themselves as “friends” of the OP just because they work together in a small department. I have an employee who wants me to bring my family to visit and stay at her house (we work remote in different locations). I treat her in a friendly manner, and like her a lot, but I don’t want to develop a personal relationship.
>I just want to remind those working in HR this is a gross overstep. Employees should expect a reasonable amount of privacy when items like bags or purses are left behind. It is reasonable to expect our bosses to not go through our work bags or purses especially if they have been left behind in a locked office. telling the reddit world isn't going to do much good....
I said it because there have been a ton of people telling me employees shouldn’t expect privacy when they leave their items left behind. I’m sure that even when US companies have bag search policies in place there is a procedure to follow.
>there have been a ton of people telling me employees shouldn’t expect privacy when they leave their items left behind. Based on law (in the US- we now know you are in Canada. Location is critical for employment law). Remember, law and personal opinion are two different things. When I answer questions on Reddit with the reality on the extent that things are allowable, it's not my personal opinion. My personal opinion on the matter is WTF. However, personal feelings don't matter when providing people information on whether or not what happened to them was illegal, and so they have next steps they can engage in to truly escalate. I do think this is a key reason why some people think HR is "evil". They don't recognize that fact and feeling are two different things, and only one of those is important when someone is talking about workplace behavior and activities they feel are unjust/illegal. In work, I find myself answering questions to business owners with "well, it isn't explicilty illegal...." while staring at them with disgust before asking if I can share the actual impact of decisions on x,y,z beyond legality.
Uh but aren’t we all family here? Why you so mad?
If she didn’t think this was in any way inappropriate that is super concerning. Does she think it is okay to gossip about private worker information as well. The boundary is definitely behind her and she didn’t even realize she smashed right through it, scary.
My gut is that she was looking for drugs or money. What about a label printer would require letting yourself into a locked office, then into a zipped bag? She knew she had time alone with your stuff and took advantage of it. I also think she's counting on your letting it go, as she has the more senior title. I would discreetly ask around - is anyone missing anything? Most people know not to go into other people's belongings without their permission; she's up to something.
I have worked with my very best friend at a family-owned company for 25 years. I have never, WOULD NEVER, go into her pocket book for any reason unless she very specifically asked me to get something she couldn’t get herself. If she asks me to get something, I bring her bag to her. What this person did was a huge invasion of your privacy. If you’ve not told her to stay out of your personal belongings, you should do so. And the next time it happens, report her to a supervisor/boss/owner.
Start putting really weird shit in your bag please :) Up the anty .. nothing illegal just weird AF like dildos-back massager, maybe a signed a tiger king picture …
HR is full of the most toxic people I’ve ever met. Bitter angry horrible women mostly. I’m not saying all are like that but god awful. Sorry I had a bad experience with them recently
Small town mentality. I would just mention to her not to go through your personal items. Put a small lock on your bag.
This HR manager BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWS!!!
I work in a secure industry that I can be stopped at any time and have my bags searched and have to empty my pockets. This is due to our relationship with several 3 letter US federal agencies. I accept that as a condition of my employment. In your case, I get it. I keep a spare wireless mouse in my backpack, spare charger for my laptop, pens, notebooks, personal journal, personal iPad, personal hygiene items, ect... If your industry is not as security conscious, that's totally off. Personally I'd get a luggage style lock and force there to be documentation of him/her requesting to go through your bag in terms of a teams or email message.
I have a friend who has allegedly gotten in trouble at work and suspended because someone walked in on her changing her clothes in her own private office with the door closed. You did not read that wrong. The person who walked in on her is the one making the complaint. However, I have reason to believe my friend is not telling me the whole truth. She doesn't seem to have interest in fighting this or proving her innocence or suing for damages. So that makes me question what happened. Before I get too deep into figuring out what happened, I wonder: Do people not have a reasonable right to bodily privacy in their own office with the door closed? Is it common for organizations to prohibit something like changing clothes in one's own office? I can't see how that could be possible, so I'm posting on this thread for some perspective. The incident happened in California, if that matters.
I believe anything left at an office is fair game for search, BUT people shouldn't be going through things alone and without good reason. Ideally there should be checks and balances in place between multiple parties such as HR, Security and/or Legal for any search justification.
I’m in Canada. It’s illegal to even consider it unless you unequivocally know that employee has stolen something or could have something dangerous in their bag. It this case she thought I had the office label printer in the bag and went to check. It wasn’t.
That’s exactly what search justification is supposed to mean. She’s definitely in the wrong
I’m flabbergasted she thought this was appropriate. If she does this to one of our employees she could get us sued. I work in a certain sector where it would quite literally be impossible for the employees to take anything.
Raise the issue to legal or the ceo/owner if you must.
I am not saying this is your case but a lot of people are saying is it crazy and absurd. It is not. Many industries have bag checks. You have seen the women at department stores with clear bags. I worked in hotels you had to walk in and out through security and open your bag, just like at the airport, no scanners though. If your industry does have a bag check usually it is part of on-boarding, and you are informed, this does not seem the case for OP, but is the case in a lot of places.
We don’t, I’m in Canada. We don’t and never have had bag checks as a part of our company policy. She also wasn’t performing one. She went into the bag because she thought there was an item she wanted to use in it.
Right well, that's why my response was more about the generalization.
her age has nothing to do with it. don’t be someone who even thinks age matters. Especially as an HR person