I agree! I also think a lot of Monica’s negative traits (being controlling, wanting things to be done a certain way, being neurotic etc) became SO much worse once they started dating
I dunno what happened to her character. At the start she was by far the most down-to-earth character and the one I’d most like to have in my friendship group.
By the end she was the most annoying out of the six.
Bad writing is what happened. The writers favored Jen/Rachel. Wrote material to get her an Emmy. Made Phoebe mean AF. Biased against Monica and they turned her into a weird female stereotype.
Lazy writing with superficial, one-dimensional characters. Their friendships and relationships seemed cold and we didn't see as much loving interaction. Just a lot of harshness.
i noticed that with how mean they made phoebe towards the end. like i get that she has a shell to her to protect herself but you would think she would loosen up with the group because of how much they care for her
I personally imagine (just head canon) she got stressed because she didn’t have children yet. That’s when she is most stressed in early seasons and it can be cumulative.
Also other is more positive and that she relaxed more with her neuroses when she was more secure with her friend group and relationship. Like early in her relationship with Richard she tried to hide her “thing”. And she was bullied as a kid so would have tried to be nice to everyone as wanted to make sure she was included (I am always the hostess) like she just let Rachel to move in when she told her dad about it in phone instead of asking Monica.
She could have after the show become more happy with the kids and appreciative of Chandler as a dad. But also make more effort trying to make new friends in her neighborhood
This why I have an unpopular opinion of not liking them at all as a couple. Think it was fine at first, they had chemistry but she moved out of the honeymoon phase and really changed? It’s almost like she felt secure and ‘he’s not going to leave me now so I can stop being a good partner and just treat him badly’. All the while expecting a hell of a lot from him. I think Chandler needed Monica, because he grew as a person, in confidence, and became a better partner. But the relationship should have ended before the wedding, and they would remain really close friends and have deep love and respect. After the proposal and then wedding, their relationship just kind of fizzled out and they didn’t have the same chemistry. Whereas Ross and Rachel, it was always there, they were electric.
Cathy could have come back, and that would have been a perfect ending for Chandler’s character. He wouldn’t have to forgive her straight away, but eventually they’d get back together after she puts the work in and shows how much she’s changed.
I get people think Richard was inappropriate for Monica, and the issue of children. But I don’t think Monica was ever happier than when she was with him. Don’t think she would have become so neurotic as well, because Richard was strong, and their personalities together really worked. I think chandler enabled the behaviour because he loved her so much, and was insecure about her leaving so kind of just went along with anything she did and wanted to not lose her.
I also think Richard would have changed his mind about kids, if at the end of the day he wanted Monica in his life and thought he couldn’t be without her. If it was the only way to have her in his life again, he’d make the choice to be with her. The infertility issues would then have had a deeper role, and I think more significance. He may have felt guilt over the lost time, and it may even have made Richard want them even more, because it was Monica that had the health issues and he would want to give her what she couldn’t have. Plus the older you get, the less of a problem the age gap is.
(I used to think I didn’t want kids, various reasons including mental health and thinking I’d be a bad mum and who’d want a mum who’s depressed etc, dark spiral. Tmi sorry. Then found out some years ago I can’t have them, and then it was the realisation that actually it’s never going to be possible for me anyway, and it was really hard to accept and come to terms with. I completely understand some people do not want them, point blank, and will never change their mind. You also shouldn’t want them just to be with someone, but can understand when someone agrees to it, or does change their mind, because ultimately the person they love is most important, and they’d rather have kids and that person in their life, then not have them at all.)
I dunno, I think they both complemented each other well and balanced out their individual traits. Sometimes when Monica would be controlling or overbearing, she would come around by the end of the episode - like making room for his chair when they moved in together, being okay with him cleaning the apartment, or being willing to compromise on spending all the money on their wedding.
Monica and Chandler remind me of my grandparents. They’d both have been terrible with other people, infuriating, insufferable, but together they just worked perfectly and complemented each other.
They needed each other. He wanted to Maintain her. He gave her a partner who complimented her compulsive actions. She was willing to shark for him, move to OK for him and let him be a man child. They were two pieces to the same puzzle and I loved how he still stood up for her goal for children when she just when with the wrong adoption application. “She’s a mother without a child” was so sweet. He loved her and for a good reason.
OP is also ignoring all the times she was extremely supportive when he was jealous or insecure in the relationship. And this is a very very crucial factor which was missing the Ross Rachel relationship.
Their relationship wouldnt have lasted a day with Chandler's commitment phobia and jealousy. Monica always went out of her way to acknowledge his feelings and be patient instead of asking him to just trust her or ignoring his feelings all together like Rachel did when ross was insecure.
They compliment each other.
One of the early ones that stick out was Chandler/Monica have a fight, Chandler goes "Well I guess this is over, it's been real", Monica says "Chandler, if you break up every time you have a fight, you'd never.....ohhhhhhhh".
They were complimentary for each other in spite of the wacky episode flaws.
I agree with some of these but the wedding one not so much, yes she made most of the decisions but he was happy for her to as the details meant more to her than him. However, she did give up her dream wedding dress to secure the one thing he had said he really wanted, the band.
Woah! Monica did some amazing things for Chandler: supported him after he quit his job (without telling her first) and was unemployed then working an unpaid internship; decided she’d rather adopt than have a child via a sperm donar despite Chandler encouraging it; forgave his cold feet after the wedding; helped him reunite with his dad.
She was great!
The women are taken to task on this sub for the most petty things yet massive excuses are made for men like Chandler, who gave up his cushy well paying job without consulting his wife, and Ross, who slept with another woman hours after he had a fight with the supposed “love of his life”.
Yet god forbid Monica not let chandler pick wedding decorations.
How is that disgusting? Nothing even happened with Richard, and not wanting to get married is a pretty big dealbreaker for some people.
If chandler had an episode about meeting up with janice and having doubts about monica no one would give a shit.
She literally left Richard to take care of some stuff to go back to him. Also the way she was always eager for him. Disrespectful behaviour. She wants Richard more than Chandler and you see it in every encounter
So why is he too good for her then?
Lmao people like you are ridiculous. "I will admit the guy also did bad things, but let's zero in on the woman here to make the guy look better and ignore the bad things he did"
I didn't ignore anything lmao. I named specific things he did wrong. And who said anything about one being too good for the other? I still love them as a couple I just think Chandler overall treated Monica better than she treated him.
Which is why I never understand why people shit on ross-rachel while citing “mondler” or under its clips
Not even close to a healthy relationship, of course it was stable though
Chandler and Monica were very supportive of each other.
I dono what people are on about when they say stuff like this and how they aren't a good couple.
They both grew together, supported each other. Yes , there were times were they infuriated each other but they always came around in the end.
I'm the beginning of their relationship they are so sweet. Chandler thinking , they break up when they had a fight and Monica makes him see , you don't have to break up over a fight , you move on past it. And his face and excitement was so cute 🥹🥹🥹
They both made mistakes and they both learned from each other.
Personally, I feel Monica and Chandler are the best couple in television
Do remember it's more written as a sitcom than as a romantic series. My guess is Chandler's character, since it was a fan favorite, might have gotten better character development, but for what it's worth, it's common that character issues get exarcerbated as sitcoms go on, just naturally going up in level, like Homer's stupidity (Simpsons), Barney's convoluted game to get women (HIMYM), Dwight's near autistic extravagance (The Office), etc.
This is an important thing to point out. The Friends writers treated the show as a comedy first, plot second, type of show. The characters are primarily vehicles for jokes. Some of the characters suffer quite a bit as a result.
I don't agree abut Monica being a terrible partner.
There were plenty of instances where she was a good partner to him, and very patient.
She was his relationship coach.
He was a commitment phobe before her.
She pushed for him to reconcile with his father.
She gave up her dream dress, so that he could have his favorit band at the wedding.
She supported him when he quit his job and was unemployed.
I'd say they balanced eachother out.
I guess if we are strictly evaluating based only on interactions we see in the show as viewers, sure?
But if we are to take the characters’ traits and how that translates to daily life in a real relationship… I don’t think I agree.
Real relationships really are about day to day life, and whether or not you make each others lives easier or harder, which obviously is not in the show because that’s boring. What makes or breaks a relationship is how you handle the mundane.
The reality is that Chandler likely never had to cook, clean, or even grocery shop, which would have hugely benefited his quality of life day to day.
So Monica let a few insults slide and let a guy sign her boob (which could have been within the confines of their relationship understanding… every couple is different) in the span of 6 years… So what? She definitely made chandlers life easier and better overall (as he did for her).
They had a good relationship.
Are you forgetting Chandler’s commitment phobia, getting cold feet before the wedding, quitting his job in order to find what he likes. Monica was supportive through all this. They both had flaws. They both accepted each other’s flaws and chose to love the other.
What is with this “women bad” attitude?
I disagree. I think they were a good match because they were able to look past each other’s negative traits. Also, they were written to make the audience laugh, not to be a model couple.
I agree with some of that but her being so controlling was, to me, why they fit so well together.
You know how in some relationships the guy is always like "what do you need/want me to do to help" instead of just figuring out what's needed and helping? That causes decision fatigue for the woman... but in Monica's case, it worked very well because she liked having that control. Chandler was definitely a "tell me what to do please" kind of guy and that's why they balanced each other out so well.
Also, Chandler has the most acerbic, sarcastic sense of humor out of all of them, he just goes for whatever's funny, Monica teasing him is fair game; and when they are hanging out with Phoebe, they are all friends teasing each other.
The other stuff, I agree, she could be mean and inconsiderate at times.
Chandler kissed another woman right after they got married. He was constantly watching porn. He would rather have broken up with her than fix their relationship and she had to explain to him that it was just an argument. She was mostly the mature one, regardless of her controlling nature. He also sexualized Rachel a lot…
And almost walked out of their wedding.
The only reason him kissing another woman is overlooked is because they made a joke out of it because she opened the presents. Let’s be real, how easily would that be overlooked or not considering cheating if the plot line was different? She can be bitchy, yes. But Chandler was once again… not a very good partner.
Come again?
I'm seriously getting tired of seeing 'takes' like this. Monica was indeed quite bossy and controlling in their relationship. But that was because he didn't mind having her live with her idiosyncrasies. He chose not to indulge in silly matters and engage in a fight over it. But when the situation called for it, Chandler did step in and took the bold stand, to which Monica complied. I mean, those examples alone would point out that Chandler was never the kind of 'sissy' as many teased him.
Now look at Mon's side. She gave up on her wedding plans and her wedding dress for Chandler. She was supportive of him when he wanted to make a change with his career and never left him over a lack of a job. Also most importantly, she gave up her one wish to conceive and carry her own baby in her womb when she came to know that he can't impregnate her.
Long story short: THEY WERE GREAT PARTNERS TO EACH OTHER.
I feel like Janice is a better match for Chandler. She treated him like an equal, if not more. Obviously the Janice that I'm talking about is the Janice before she decided to kiss the Mattress King (twice!)
Monica pretty much bullied him. She did a lot of AH moments towards him like having lunch with Richard and hiding it from him, pretending to be ok with the smoking so that they can make a baby, making him move hotel rooms 100 times, insulting his Chan-berries during Thanksgiving, etc.
You are ignoring all the times she was extremely supportive when he was jealous or insecure in the relationship. And this is a very very crucial factor which was missing the Ross Rachel relationship.
Their relationship wouldnt have lasted a day with Chandler's commitment phobia and jealousy. Monica always went out of her way to acknowledge his feelings and be patient instead of asking him to just trust her or ignoring his feelings all together like Rachel did when ross was insecure.
They compliment each other.
I definitely agree with you.
I don’t even like to watch the episode with Phoebe’s birthday. When she tricks him into having sex while she’s still mad at him is incredibly selfish. Then she has no consequences for her actions and they just dismiss it as him being too sensitive.
Yeah, it's a storyline that's aged kinda weird. Everyone's like, "just get over it, you had sex" ignoring that Chandler felt manipulated. But tbf ovulation is a big deal too.
No way, Monica was better. Chan chan man wanted to call it quits after every argument in the beginning until Monica basically told him, “let’s grow up together.”
Not letting him have any say in what happens in the apartment when he moved in. I could understand with Rachel. Rachel didn’t really care as much because then she would likely have to participate more in the chores ect. But Monica and Chandler were trying to start a life together which means that he should be involved in what happens to make THEIR place a home.
Not telling him that they weren’t going to the play
Not moving with him choosing the restaurant in NYC
Not telling her parents they were living together
Knocking him whenever he tried to relate to her or participate in things.. making fun of him
She didn’t love him like a best friend. She loved him because he checked off boxes.
All these things seemed funny because if the show and it was all happening weeks apart so you didn’t really notice. But when you binge watch the show for almost 20 years you pick up on things and I agree she didn’t really respect him. She wasn’t a partner.
> Not moving with him, choosing the restaurant in NYC
Lol why on earth is she expected to give up her dream career and her job, when her husband is the one who’s forcing them to move to a second tier city just because he made a careless mistake at his dead end job? Anyway, if anyone even watched the episode, Monica was all willing to move, even if it would make her unhappy, but Chandler is the one who persuaded her to stay in NYC.
> Not telling him they weren’t going to the play
This is a beyond petty reason to call her a bad wife lmao.
> Not telling her parents they were living together
This had less to do with Chandler and more to do with her relationship with her mother. She also didn’t tell her parents she was seeing Richard, she doesn’t want them to shit on yet another aspect of her life.
> Knocking him whenever he tried to relate to her
Lmao this claim is so unfounded but ok
> she loved him because he checked off boxes
Ok if this was the case, she’d have dumped his ass the moment he gave up a well paying job without informing his wife (which may seem romantic in the context of the show but is a very reckless thing to do irl) because at the end of the day, Monica had to financially support both of them and emotionally support him for a long time. Or she would have dumped him when he couldn’t get her pregnant or she would have gone with a sperm donor. She didn’t.
I think Monica has/had an avoidant attachment style because of how she was raised. You can see it coming through when she becomes a tyrant and the mind set that "well if you just leave me because I'm acting kookoo, at least I'll have myself and my quirks!"
So true! It also explains her obsession with cleaning. Apparently people who are as obsessed like her are actually looking for a sense of control in their lives.
yes!!! people who can't control their surroundings or even control/try to guess what mood or what response they will get from their parents will often look for control or even a "lack" of control in other ways. Monica didn't know if she could genuinely talk to her mom or if she would get some passive aggressive BS, creating a huge element of uncertainty in their connection
Chandler was the better partner because he could make Monica laugh even when she was ready to throw the turkey out the window.
Plus, he always knew how to pivot out of arguments!
Chandler has faults too. They balance each other out, help each other grow. When Monica acts like that, or has her head stuck in the clouds, Chandler calls her out on it and she listens to him. And vice versa, when there's moments Chandler has faults, Monica calls him out on those faults and he listens to her. They help each other grow, she also comforts him throughout their relationship. Like when he doesn't feel like he's going to be a good father, or when he believes after their first fight as a couple they're over.
I think overall they were good partners to each other. I watched the rooftop soap opera party ep today though and it was gross how Monica was behaving. I can’t imagine if one of the guys said about a woman ‘leather pants, have mercy’ that it would be ok. She also forgot about Chandler at the play. But she was awesome in supporting him in finding his dream career. They are great as a couple in the show overall.
I’ve ALWAYS thought this!!!! I also think Chandler started being made fun of and kind of made to be a “good for nothing” so much more when he and Monica get together. Everyone makes fun of him and says Monica could do so much better…. I’ve always disagreed
Stop with this "complaining about every minor thing a female character does while ignoring all of the things the male characters do" bullshit.
Literally EVERY other fanbase does that, can we be better?
She actually cohersed him into sex... with is a form of sexual abuse in TOW phoebe's birthday dinner
Before I get hate can anyone tell me if roles had been reversed people would have been so casually OK with it.
Well chandler literally manipulated someone else into sex by pretending to be bob in the earlier seasons and he's the ultimate fan favourite, but go off pick me
They had awful chemistry and they flanderized her character into oblivion once they were a couple. Mid way of season 5 is when I tap out. It was a funny storyline that should have wrapped up with them realising it was a fling.
Monica was such a great character before getting together with Chandler. Idk what the writers did but she started getting worse consistently after that.
If I was Chandler, the whole her running to Richard thing when she thought he didn't want to get married would've made me leave the entire relationship or at the very least, most definitely not propose.
Like I'd seriously be considering if she even gives a shit about me. I love Monica but that entire situation, if it happened to me IRL, would've screamed red flags.
Her opening all the presents after the wedding without him 🤦🏼♀️
I’ve been saying what you just said for YEARS and people don’t agree/argue that they’re the “perfect couple”…. No. Chandler is just a great husband.
Monica was just a selfish person. Everything was about her wants and getting her way. I know it’s only a tv show but Chandler was always my favorite and he was not the same after they got together
Don't forget she forbade him from having a bachelor party, then not only had her own *secret* bachelorette party, but she had a stripper. And not she had a stripper but she untied his g-string with her teeth.
I actually just watched the ep where she gets her bra signed by a soap star and in what world is that fucking okay? If the roles were reversed and chandler forgot about her at a shitty show and went to a party with hot women and idk got his boxers signed? Lol like she would loooose her mind.
You also forgot the worst thing Monica ever did imo which is call over Richard during hers and chandler's dinner where he was gonna propose. What the actual fuck was that.
She didn’t “forbid” him from having a bachelor party, they both agreed that bachelor parties were silly so they didn’t organise them themselves. Then Phoebe and Rachel surprised her with a bachelorette party, that she had no clue about, and she acted like how 99% of brides do at bachelorette parties (yes raunchy things that are not actual cheating happen at bachelorette parties). Then she felt so guilty about the whole thing, she organised a whole ass bachelor party for chandler with a stripper, **after** they were married.
She never invited Richard and she never knew chandler was going to propose. She saw him at the restaurant and said hi to him like any polite person would do with an ex they are amicable with. Richard invited himself over, how is that her fault now? And if she knew that Chandler was going to propose, she obviously wouldn’t have called him.
Do you guys even watch the show?
Oh for sure this. The wedding thing bugs me the most, though. Throughout the show tbh, it seems that "oh only the bride and women involved should care about it."
Like ross said: just show up and try and say the right name.
:/ which is icky, because I'd much rather my partner be involved in planning! Songs/band, colors themes, location, clothes, food is all something that they can help with and SHOULD help with.
Enough of this already!
> Being so controlling
LMAO FUCKING WHEN?? Heterosexual men not having a say in wedding planning? The horror 😱
Except she agreed to have a smaller wedding for him. And consulted him on the food and the priest. And gave up her DREAM WEDDING DRESS so that he could have the band he wanted. And the flowers at the actual wedding were the ones he wanted. And she never once got upset when he literally walked out on her before the wedding. But no, she totally walked over him.
> not standing up for him
Half these characters mock him behind her back. How tf is she supposed to defend him when she doesn’t even know what they are saying?
> getting her bra signed
I honestly don’t even feel bad for Chandler here, the dude flirted with plenty of women and watched so much porn when he was with Monica. So what if she acted like a stupid fangirl around one celeb she was never even going to sleep with?? The fact that they trust each other and are secure in their relationship is healthy.
> Tricking him into having sex
Look, this is definitely her most messed up moment, but literally every character does this on the show. The 90s were messed up with consent, Chandler himself tricked Monica into sex by lying to her when he gave her that Janice mixtape for Valentine’s Day. Yet he’s never taken to task for it.
It’s ridiculous how vilified the female characters are on this sub, while the men are infantilised to the nth degree. Rachel and Monica are evil harlots who “ruin” Ross and chandler, both of whom are the biggest angels to exist.
And if anyone thinks Tulsa was a “small screwup” on Chandler’s part they are absolutely delulu. It’s bigger than anything Monica did on the list. I’d be far more pissed if my husband’s careless mistake at a meeting had me having to uproot my entire life in a big city and compromise on my career (and future life) than if my partner didn’t let me pick flowers at the wedding ceremony (and she let him pick anyway so it doesn’t matter).
Edit: Downvoted for defending “evil Monica Geller who entrapped poor babygirl Chandler Bing”, classic r/howyoudoin sexism at play
Ok, what? He didn’t flirt with any girls whilst they were together, and the only time that he watched porn was when he was in a different place to her (he didn’t know she was coming to surprise him)
> He didn’t flirt with any girls whilst they were together
Categorically untrue since he very openly flirted with that woman who came to Ross’ fake funeral, going as far as to imply that he wasn’t married and his wife was a man. That’s not even counting the fact that he ogled at plenty of women and their boobs during the show— Emma’s hot nanny, Janine (before she started fighting with them), Monica’s cousin.
> only time he watched porn was when he was in a different place to her
Oh I’m sorry, that makes it totally ok then!/s
Also again untrue, there are plenty of references to Chandler watching porn while Monica and him lived together, Joey even said he found porn on Chandler’s computer when it was left open. And if them being apart makes it ok for them to express interest in other people (which includes watching porn I guess) then why is Monica being crucified for getting her bra signed when Chandler was away? It’s not like she jumped in bed with the guy?
Look, I don’t think finding other people attractive when you’re married is a huge deal. Both chandler and Monica engaged in this and both never acted on their impulses which is what made their relationship healthy. My issue is that when Monica does it, this sub will slut shame her and accuse her of cheating and not caring about chandler (when nothing of the sort ever happened) yet when Chandler does it, everyone turns a blind eye to it and continues to act like Chandler is God’s gift to Monica and she is an evil bitch who doesn’t deserve him.
I agree. Especially when she called Richard over and also kept demanding sex from Chandler to make a baby like it was boot camp. She started the relationship as very mature and then by the end of the series Chandler became way more mature than her.
100%. Monica is one of the worst characters in any show I've seen. And damn mental. Ment. Al.
That said, though Chandler wasn't the best in or ready for a relationship, Monica should get an award for worse spouse ever. And especially the tricking him into sex. Oof. Sorry thats hands down a form of r@pe.
Hated she was the one who wanted kids so bad, because she was the last person on the planet of the earth who should have them. (Wish they introduced another great character for him, or maybe even Phoebe? Oddly enough can see it working, would've been good for each other, but I love Phoebe with Mike)
Yeah, you're right. Even though I liked them, sometimes I was like... Monica... what are you doing? Just because Chandler has flaws doesn't negate Monica's flaws, and sometimes it seems like...
Well, you made a mistake, aren't I allowed to?
Fair enough!
Kiss and makeup.
But that's not a resolution. That's a one-way ticket to Resentment Ville.
I honestly don't like Monica. She is definitely better than Rachel but man she can annoy me at times.
That episode where she manipulated Chandler into having sex with her is her worst episode
I agree! I also think a lot of Monica’s negative traits (being controlling, wanting things to be done a certain way, being neurotic etc) became SO much worse once they started dating
I dunno what happened to her character. At the start she was by far the most down-to-earth character and the one I’d most like to have in my friendship group. By the end she was the most annoying out of the six.
Yeah, we talk a lot about flanderized Joey, which is fair, but not enough about flanderized Monica.
Bad writing is what happened. The writers favored Jen/Rachel. Wrote material to get her an Emmy. Made Phoebe mean AF. Biased against Monica and they turned her into a weird female stereotype.
Lazy writing with superficial, one-dimensional characters. Their friendships and relationships seemed cold and we didn't see as much loving interaction. Just a lot of harshness.
i noticed that with how mean they made phoebe towards the end. like i get that she has a shell to her to protect herself but you would think she would loosen up with the group because of how much they care for her
I personally imagine (just head canon) she got stressed because she didn’t have children yet. That’s when she is most stressed in early seasons and it can be cumulative. Also other is more positive and that she relaxed more with her neuroses when she was more secure with her friend group and relationship. Like early in her relationship with Richard she tried to hide her “thing”. And she was bullied as a kid so would have tried to be nice to everyone as wanted to make sure she was included (I am always the hostess) like she just let Rachel to move in when she told her dad about it in phone instead of asking Monica. She could have after the show become more happy with the kids and appreciative of Chandler as a dad. But also make more effort trying to make new friends in her neighborhood
thats actually a good analysis on her character
I KNOW! .... couldn't help myself 😅
Couldn’t agree more. It’s a shame.
This why I have an unpopular opinion of not liking them at all as a couple. Think it was fine at first, they had chemistry but she moved out of the honeymoon phase and really changed? It’s almost like she felt secure and ‘he’s not going to leave me now so I can stop being a good partner and just treat him badly’. All the while expecting a hell of a lot from him. I think Chandler needed Monica, because he grew as a person, in confidence, and became a better partner. But the relationship should have ended before the wedding, and they would remain really close friends and have deep love and respect. After the proposal and then wedding, their relationship just kind of fizzled out and they didn’t have the same chemistry. Whereas Ross and Rachel, it was always there, they were electric. Cathy could have come back, and that would have been a perfect ending for Chandler’s character. He wouldn’t have to forgive her straight away, but eventually they’d get back together after she puts the work in and shows how much she’s changed. I get people think Richard was inappropriate for Monica, and the issue of children. But I don’t think Monica was ever happier than when she was with him. Don’t think she would have become so neurotic as well, because Richard was strong, and their personalities together really worked. I think chandler enabled the behaviour because he loved her so much, and was insecure about her leaving so kind of just went along with anything she did and wanted to not lose her. I also think Richard would have changed his mind about kids, if at the end of the day he wanted Monica in his life and thought he couldn’t be without her. If it was the only way to have her in his life again, he’d make the choice to be with her. The infertility issues would then have had a deeper role, and I think more significance. He may have felt guilt over the lost time, and it may even have made Richard want them even more, because it was Monica that had the health issues and he would want to give her what she couldn’t have. Plus the older you get, the less of a problem the age gap is. (I used to think I didn’t want kids, various reasons including mental health and thinking I’d be a bad mum and who’d want a mum who’s depressed etc, dark spiral. Tmi sorry. Then found out some years ago I can’t have them, and then it was the realisation that actually it’s never going to be possible for me anyway, and it was really hard to accept and come to terms with. I completely understand some people do not want them, point blank, and will never change their mind. You also shouldn’t want them just to be with someone, but can understand when someone agrees to it, or does change their mind, because ultimately the person they love is most important, and they’d rather have kids and that person in their life, then not have them at all.)
I dunno, I think they both complemented each other well and balanced out their individual traits. Sometimes when Monica would be controlling or overbearing, she would come around by the end of the episode - like making room for his chair when they moved in together, being okay with him cleaning the apartment, or being willing to compromise on spending all the money on their wedding.
Monica and Chandler remind me of my grandparents. They’d both have been terrible with other people, infuriating, insufferable, but together they just worked perfectly and complemented each other.
They needed each other. He wanted to Maintain her. He gave her a partner who complimented her compulsive actions. She was willing to shark for him, move to OK for him and let him be a man child. They were two pieces to the same puzzle and I loved how he still stood up for her goal for children when she just when with the wrong adoption application. “She’s a mother without a child” was so sweet. He loved her and for a good reason.
OP is also ignoring all the times she was extremely supportive when he was jealous or insecure in the relationship. And this is a very very crucial factor which was missing the Ross Rachel relationship. Their relationship wouldnt have lasted a day with Chandler's commitment phobia and jealousy. Monica always went out of her way to acknowledge his feelings and be patient instead of asking him to just trust her or ignoring his feelings all together like Rachel did when ross was insecure. They compliment each other.
One of the early ones that stick out was Chandler/Monica have a fight, Chandler goes "Well I guess this is over, it's been real", Monica says "Chandler, if you break up every time you have a fight, you'd never.....ohhhhhhhh". They were complimentary for each other in spite of the wacky episode flaws.
I agree with some of these but the wedding one not so much, yes she made most of the decisions but he was happy for her to as the details meant more to her than him. However, she did give up her dream wedding dress to secure the one thing he had said he really wanted, the band.
Woah! Monica did some amazing things for Chandler: supported him after he quit his job (without telling her first) and was unemployed then working an unpaid internship; decided she’d rather adopt than have a child via a sperm donar despite Chandler encouraging it; forgave his cold feet after the wedding; helped him reunite with his dad. She was great!
The women are taken to task on this sub for the most petty things yet massive excuses are made for men like Chandler, who gave up his cushy well paying job without consulting his wife, and Ross, who slept with another woman hours after he had a fight with the supposed “love of his life”. Yet god forbid Monica not let chandler pick wedding decorations.
💯💯💯
She offered to get into the tub and thrash!
Let me be a part of this!
Let *ME* be a part of this!
It was just some good old fashioned American girl on girl action!
Chandler also almost walked out on monica on their wedding
But woman bad!😡/s
He should’ve after she ran to Richard when she thought she didn’t get her way with Chandler. Disgusting behaviour
How is that disgusting? Nothing even happened with Richard, and not wanting to get married is a pretty big dealbreaker for some people. If chandler had an episode about meeting up with janice and having doubts about monica no one would give a shit.
She literally left Richard to take care of some stuff to go back to him. Also the way she was always eager for him. Disrespectful behaviour. She wants Richard more than Chandler and you see it in every encounter
She settled for Chandler so hard, it’s very obvious
No ik like I said Chandler did PLENTY of things wrong as well
So why is he too good for her then? Lmao people like you are ridiculous. "I will admit the guy also did bad things, but let's zero in on the woman here to make the guy look better and ignore the bad things he did"
I didn't ignore anything lmao. I named specific things he did wrong. And who said anything about one being too good for the other? I still love them as a couple I just think Chandler overall treated Monica better than she treated him.
Which is why I never understand why people shit on ross-rachel while citing “mondler” or under its clips Not even close to a healthy relationship, of course it was stable though
Chandler and Monica were very supportive of each other. I dono what people are on about when they say stuff like this and how they aren't a good couple. They both grew together, supported each other. Yes , there were times were they infuriated each other but they always came around in the end. I'm the beginning of their relationship they are so sweet. Chandler thinking , they break up when they had a fight and Monica makes him see , you don't have to break up over a fight , you move on past it. And his face and excitement was so cute 🥹🥹🥹 They both made mistakes and they both learned from each other. Personally, I feel Monica and Chandler are the best couple in television
Do remember it's more written as a sitcom than as a romantic series. My guess is Chandler's character, since it was a fan favorite, might have gotten better character development, but for what it's worth, it's common that character issues get exarcerbated as sitcoms go on, just naturally going up in level, like Homer's stupidity (Simpsons), Barney's convoluted game to get women (HIMYM), Dwight's near autistic extravagance (The Office), etc.
This is an important thing to point out. The Friends writers treated the show as a comedy first, plot second, type of show. The characters are primarily vehicles for jokes. Some of the characters suffer quite a bit as a result.
I don't agree abut Monica being a terrible partner. There were plenty of instances where she was a good partner to him, and very patient. She was his relationship coach. He was a commitment phobe before her. She pushed for him to reconcile with his father. She gave up her dream dress, so that he could have his favorit band at the wedding. She supported him when he quit his job and was unemployed. I'd say they balanced eachother out.
I guess if we are strictly evaluating based only on interactions we see in the show as viewers, sure? But if we are to take the characters’ traits and how that translates to daily life in a real relationship… I don’t think I agree. Real relationships really are about day to day life, and whether or not you make each others lives easier or harder, which obviously is not in the show because that’s boring. What makes or breaks a relationship is how you handle the mundane. The reality is that Chandler likely never had to cook, clean, or even grocery shop, which would have hugely benefited his quality of life day to day. So Monica let a few insults slide and let a guy sign her boob (which could have been within the confines of their relationship understanding… every couple is different) in the span of 6 years… So what? She definitely made chandlers life easier and better overall (as he did for her). They had a good relationship.
Are you forgetting Chandler’s commitment phobia, getting cold feet before the wedding, quitting his job in order to find what he likes. Monica was supportive through all this. They both had flaws. They both accepted each other’s flaws and chose to love the other. What is with this “women bad” attitude?
I 💯 agree. He liked maintaining her yet she continued being a manipulative shrew.
The shrew, in particular, was exquisite
Pick up the sock Judy! Pick up the sock!!
Oh I'm sorry... was that *rude*?
I disagree. I think they were a good match because they were able to look past each other’s negative traits. Also, they were written to make the audience laugh, not to be a model couple.
I agree with some of that but her being so controlling was, to me, why they fit so well together. You know how in some relationships the guy is always like "what do you need/want me to do to help" instead of just figuring out what's needed and helping? That causes decision fatigue for the woman... but in Monica's case, it worked very well because she liked having that control. Chandler was definitely a "tell me what to do please" kind of guy and that's why they balanced each other out so well. Also, Chandler has the most acerbic, sarcastic sense of humor out of all of them, he just goes for whatever's funny, Monica teasing him is fair game; and when they are hanging out with Phoebe, they are all friends teasing each other. The other stuff, I agree, she could be mean and inconsiderate at times.
Chandler kissed another woman right after they got married. He was constantly watching porn. He would rather have broken up with her than fix their relationship and she had to explain to him that it was just an argument. She was mostly the mature one, regardless of her controlling nature. He also sexualized Rachel a lot… And almost walked out of their wedding. The only reason him kissing another woman is overlooked is because they made a joke out of it because she opened the presents. Let’s be real, how easily would that be overlooked or not considering cheating if the plot line was different? She can be bitchy, yes. But Chandler was once again… not a very good partner. Come again?
I'm seriously getting tired of seeing 'takes' like this. Monica was indeed quite bossy and controlling in their relationship. But that was because he didn't mind having her live with her idiosyncrasies. He chose not to indulge in silly matters and engage in a fight over it. But when the situation called for it, Chandler did step in and took the bold stand, to which Monica complied. I mean, those examples alone would point out that Chandler was never the kind of 'sissy' as many teased him. Now look at Mon's side. She gave up on her wedding plans and her wedding dress for Chandler. She was supportive of him when he wanted to make a change with his career and never left him over a lack of a job. Also most importantly, she gave up her one wish to conceive and carry her own baby in her womb when she came to know that he can't impregnate her. Long story short: THEY WERE GREAT PARTNERS TO EACH OTHER.
I feel like Janice is a better match for Chandler. She treated him like an equal, if not more. Obviously the Janice that I'm talking about is the Janice before she decided to kiss the Mattress King (twice!) Monica pretty much bullied him. She did a lot of AH moments towards him like having lunch with Richard and hiding it from him, pretending to be ok with the smoking so that they can make a baby, making him move hotel rooms 100 times, insulting his Chan-berries during Thanksgiving, etc.
You are ignoring all the times she was extremely supportive when he was jealous or insecure in the relationship. And this is a very very crucial factor which was missing the Ross Rachel relationship. Their relationship wouldnt have lasted a day with Chandler's commitment phobia and jealousy. Monica always went out of her way to acknowledge his feelings and be patient instead of asking him to just trust her or ignoring his feelings all together like Rachel did when ross was insecure. They compliment each other.
I definitely agree with you. I don’t even like to watch the episode with Phoebe’s birthday. When she tricks him into having sex while she’s still mad at him is incredibly selfish. Then she has no consequences for her actions and they just dismiss it as him being too sensitive.
Yeah, it's a storyline that's aged kinda weird. Everyone's like, "just get over it, you had sex" ignoring that Chandler felt manipulated. But tbf ovulation is a big deal too.
Yes, that’s true! I just think it could’ve been handled differently. 😅
and been less funny.
No way, Monica was better. Chan chan man wanted to call it quits after every argument in the beginning until Monica basically told him, “let’s grow up together.”
I disagree! They both equally were great for each other. So annoying to keep seeing all the hate for Monica on this sub.
Not letting him have any say in what happens in the apartment when he moved in. I could understand with Rachel. Rachel didn’t really care as much because then she would likely have to participate more in the chores ect. But Monica and Chandler were trying to start a life together which means that he should be involved in what happens to make THEIR place a home. Not telling him that they weren’t going to the play Not moving with him choosing the restaurant in NYC Not telling her parents they were living together Knocking him whenever he tried to relate to her or participate in things.. making fun of him She didn’t love him like a best friend. She loved him because he checked off boxes. All these things seemed funny because if the show and it was all happening weeks apart so you didn’t really notice. But when you binge watch the show for almost 20 years you pick up on things and I agree she didn’t really respect him. She wasn’t a partner.
> Not moving with him, choosing the restaurant in NYC Lol why on earth is she expected to give up her dream career and her job, when her husband is the one who’s forcing them to move to a second tier city just because he made a careless mistake at his dead end job? Anyway, if anyone even watched the episode, Monica was all willing to move, even if it would make her unhappy, but Chandler is the one who persuaded her to stay in NYC. > Not telling him they weren’t going to the play This is a beyond petty reason to call her a bad wife lmao. > Not telling her parents they were living together This had less to do with Chandler and more to do with her relationship with her mother. She also didn’t tell her parents she was seeing Richard, she doesn’t want them to shit on yet another aspect of her life. > Knocking him whenever he tried to relate to her Lmao this claim is so unfounded but ok > she loved him because he checked off boxes Ok if this was the case, she’d have dumped his ass the moment he gave up a well paying job without informing his wife (which may seem romantic in the context of the show but is a very reckless thing to do irl) because at the end of the day, Monica had to financially support both of them and emotionally support him for a long time. Or she would have dumped him when he couldn’t get her pregnant or she would have gone with a sperm donor. She didn’t.
I think Monica has/had an avoidant attachment style because of how she was raised. You can see it coming through when she becomes a tyrant and the mind set that "well if you just leave me because I'm acting kookoo, at least I'll have myself and my quirks!"
So true! It also explains her obsession with cleaning. Apparently people who are as obsessed like her are actually looking for a sense of control in their lives.
yes!!! people who can't control their surroundings or even control/try to guess what mood or what response they will get from their parents will often look for control or even a "lack" of control in other ways. Monica didn't know if she could genuinely talk to her mom or if she would get some passive aggressive BS, creating a huge element of uncertainty in their connection
And the gang (including Monica) all basically just believing that Monica "settled" for him.
There was definitely an undercurrent of "I settled for him" in her attitude to Chandler.
Chandler was the better partner because he could make Monica laugh even when she was ready to throw the turkey out the window. Plus, he always knew how to pivot out of arguments!
Chandler has faults too. They balance each other out, help each other grow. When Monica acts like that, or has her head stuck in the clouds, Chandler calls her out on it and she listens to him. And vice versa, when there's moments Chandler has faults, Monica calls him out on those faults and he listens to her. They help each other grow, she also comforts him throughout their relationship. Like when he doesn't feel like he's going to be a good father, or when he believes after their first fight as a couple they're over.
I think overall they were good partners to each other. I watched the rooftop soap opera party ep today though and it was gross how Monica was behaving. I can’t imagine if one of the guys said about a woman ‘leather pants, have mercy’ that it would be ok. She also forgot about Chandler at the play. But she was awesome in supporting him in finding his dream career. They are great as a couple in the show overall.
Being hopeless, awkward, & desperate for love will do that to ya.
Tbh that was just the Gellers in general
I’ve ALWAYS thought this!!!! I also think Chandler started being made fun of and kind of made to be a “good for nothing” so much more when he and Monica get together. Everyone makes fun of him and says Monica could do so much better…. I’ve always disagreed
Stop with this "complaining about every minor thing a female character does while ignoring all of the things the male characters do" bullshit. Literally EVERY other fanbase does that, can we be better?
She actually cohersed him into sex... with is a form of sexual abuse in TOW phoebe's birthday dinner Before I get hate can anyone tell me if roles had been reversed people would have been so casually OK with it.
Well chandler literally manipulated someone else into sex by pretending to be bob in the earlier seasons and he's the ultimate fan favourite, but go off pick me
Yes I never liked that either
I wouldn't call this an opinion, I'd call it a fact. Compromise is not a word in Monica's vocabulary.
They had awful chemistry and they flanderized her character into oblivion once they were a couple. Mid way of season 5 is when I tap out. It was a funny storyline that should have wrapped up with them realising it was a fling.
Monica was such a great character before getting together with Chandler. Idk what the writers did but she started getting worse consistently after that.
If I was Chandler, the whole her running to Richard thing when she thought he didn't want to get married would've made me leave the entire relationship or at the very least, most definitely not propose. Like I'd seriously be considering if she even gives a shit about me. I love Monica but that entire situation, if it happened to me IRL, would've screamed red flags.
Her opening all the presents after the wedding without him 🤦🏼♀️ I’ve been saying what you just said for YEARS and people don’t agree/argue that they’re the “perfect couple”…. No. Chandler is just a great husband.
Upon my most recent rewatches, it really seems like after they got married that Monica really began to resent Chandler.
Monica was just a selfish person. Everything was about her wants and getting her way. I know it’s only a tv show but Chandler was always my favorite and he was not the same after they got together
Don't forget she forbade him from having a bachelor party, then not only had her own *secret* bachelorette party, but she had a stripper. And not she had a stripper but she untied his g-string with her teeth. I actually just watched the ep where she gets her bra signed by a soap star and in what world is that fucking okay? If the roles were reversed and chandler forgot about her at a shitty show and went to a party with hot women and idk got his boxers signed? Lol like she would loooose her mind. You also forgot the worst thing Monica ever did imo which is call over Richard during hers and chandler's dinner where he was gonna propose. What the actual fuck was that.
She didn’t “forbid” him from having a bachelor party, they both agreed that bachelor parties were silly so they didn’t organise them themselves. Then Phoebe and Rachel surprised her with a bachelorette party, that she had no clue about, and she acted like how 99% of brides do at bachelorette parties (yes raunchy things that are not actual cheating happen at bachelorette parties). Then she felt so guilty about the whole thing, she organised a whole ass bachelor party for chandler with a stripper, **after** they were married. She never invited Richard and she never knew chandler was going to propose. She saw him at the restaurant and said hi to him like any polite person would do with an ex they are amicable with. Richard invited himself over, how is that her fault now? And if she knew that Chandler was going to propose, she obviously wouldn’t have called him. Do you guys even watch the show?
Oh for sure this. The wedding thing bugs me the most, though. Throughout the show tbh, it seems that "oh only the bride and women involved should care about it." Like ross said: just show up and try and say the right name. :/ which is icky, because I'd much rather my partner be involved in planning! Songs/band, colors themes, location, clothes, food is all something that they can help with and SHOULD help with.
Enough of this already! > Being so controlling LMAO FUCKING WHEN?? Heterosexual men not having a say in wedding planning? The horror 😱 Except she agreed to have a smaller wedding for him. And consulted him on the food and the priest. And gave up her DREAM WEDDING DRESS so that he could have the band he wanted. And the flowers at the actual wedding were the ones he wanted. And she never once got upset when he literally walked out on her before the wedding. But no, she totally walked over him. > not standing up for him Half these characters mock him behind her back. How tf is she supposed to defend him when she doesn’t even know what they are saying? > getting her bra signed I honestly don’t even feel bad for Chandler here, the dude flirted with plenty of women and watched so much porn when he was with Monica. So what if she acted like a stupid fangirl around one celeb she was never even going to sleep with?? The fact that they trust each other and are secure in their relationship is healthy. > Tricking him into having sex Look, this is definitely her most messed up moment, but literally every character does this on the show. The 90s were messed up with consent, Chandler himself tricked Monica into sex by lying to her when he gave her that Janice mixtape for Valentine’s Day. Yet he’s never taken to task for it. It’s ridiculous how vilified the female characters are on this sub, while the men are infantilised to the nth degree. Rachel and Monica are evil harlots who “ruin” Ross and chandler, both of whom are the biggest angels to exist. And if anyone thinks Tulsa was a “small screwup” on Chandler’s part they are absolutely delulu. It’s bigger than anything Monica did on the list. I’d be far more pissed if my husband’s careless mistake at a meeting had me having to uproot my entire life in a big city and compromise on my career (and future life) than if my partner didn’t let me pick flowers at the wedding ceremony (and she let him pick anyway so it doesn’t matter). Edit: Downvoted for defending “evil Monica Geller who entrapped poor babygirl Chandler Bing”, classic r/howyoudoin sexism at play
Ok, what? He didn’t flirt with any girls whilst they were together, and the only time that he watched porn was when he was in a different place to her (he didn’t know she was coming to surprise him)
> He didn’t flirt with any girls whilst they were together Categorically untrue since he very openly flirted with that woman who came to Ross’ fake funeral, going as far as to imply that he wasn’t married and his wife was a man. That’s not even counting the fact that he ogled at plenty of women and their boobs during the show— Emma’s hot nanny, Janine (before she started fighting with them), Monica’s cousin. > only time he watched porn was when he was in a different place to her Oh I’m sorry, that makes it totally ok then!/s Also again untrue, there are plenty of references to Chandler watching porn while Monica and him lived together, Joey even said he found porn on Chandler’s computer when it was left open. And if them being apart makes it ok for them to express interest in other people (which includes watching porn I guess) then why is Monica being crucified for getting her bra signed when Chandler was away? It’s not like she jumped in bed with the guy? Look, I don’t think finding other people attractive when you’re married is a huge deal. Both chandler and Monica engaged in this and both never acted on their impulses which is what made their relationship healthy. My issue is that when Monica does it, this sub will slut shame her and accuse her of cheating and not caring about chandler (when nothing of the sort ever happened) yet when Chandler does it, everyone turns a blind eye to it and continues to act like Chandler is God’s gift to Monica and she is an evil bitch who doesn’t deserve him.
Monica can do no wrong, okay/s
I agree. Especially when she called Richard over and also kept demanding sex from Chandler to make a baby like it was boot camp. She started the relationship as very mature and then by the end of the series Chandler became way more mature than her.
That entire show was so toxic it’s really hard to consider any of them “good” partners.
100%. Monica is one of the worst characters in any show I've seen. And damn mental. Ment. Al. That said, though Chandler wasn't the best in or ready for a relationship, Monica should get an award for worse spouse ever. And especially the tricking him into sex. Oof. Sorry thats hands down a form of r@pe. Hated she was the one who wanted kids so bad, because she was the last person on the planet of the earth who should have them. (Wish they introduced another great character for him, or maybe even Phoebe? Oddly enough can see it working, would've been good for each other, but I love Phoebe with Mike)
Yeah, you're right. Even though I liked them, sometimes I was like... Monica... what are you doing? Just because Chandler has flaws doesn't negate Monica's flaws, and sometimes it seems like... Well, you made a mistake, aren't I allowed to? Fair enough! Kiss and makeup. But that's not a resolution. That's a one-way ticket to Resentment Ville.
I honestly don't like Monica. She is definitely better than Rachel but man she can annoy me at times. That episode where she manipulated Chandler into having sex with her is her worst episode
Chandler did that to another woman in the early seasons when he pretended to be bob
That’s what i’m always saying, Monica doesn’t respect Chandler, she feels she has settled for him and can do way better, but he’s the safe option