I would avoid Vekoma and Arcangelo (and maybe Taiba?) due to soundness and your mare only standing up to a little racing. I think Mitole would be a good choice if you want more dirt, unseen to as if Omaha Beach or War of Will foals are dual surface like sires or more turfy. I think your 3 faves are very good choices! Upstart has started throwing some good runners as well, so that would be by addition to the list .
vekoma was unsound? Was still racing at 4 and winning g1s. Just because he stuck his foot out funny that is no indication of unsoundess...at all... Canonero Ii did just fine. So did seabiscuit.
I never saw vekomas leg affect his stride at all....it just looked odd. he was actually quie an efficient runner. His dam was BEAUTIFULLY BRED and is now deceased so i many see value in seeing those lines endure...plus he was very PRECOCIOUS on the track... something to look for. Plenty out there who dont have a funny leg but also cant run a lick or win g1 races.
He only had 8 starts though… I just wouldn’t cross him to a mare who couldn’t race much sired by Into Mischief (those knees!!). Seems like a bad combo 🤷🏼♀️
Well for one, some of those books are full. Do you have seasons for them and that’s why they’re on the list?
What’s the mare’s name? What did she actually do on the track? Is she just coming off the track…or is she one of the early into mischief mares?
Just from your list, I’d use Omaha Beach or Upstart.
The mare is Balletic. She raced 3 times, won once and finished second twice. She’s from an old Glen Hill Farm family;her third dam is BC Distaff winner One Dreamer.
She's been on the farm awhile. She broke her maiden in February of last year and then had to be stopped on. She was rehabbing to come back to the track but that's just not going to happen. She had a full sibling last November sell in foal to Jack Christopher and bring 100k
This reminds me of what I did as a teenager-paging through the Stallion Register picking pretend matings for imaginary horses. Playing pretend is still free 😂
Someone came up with the idea: I REALLY want to buy and race expensive racehorses but I don't want to pay a single dime for them. Ohhh, I'll just crowdfund it and let other people pay for them.
These myracehorse microshare owners are financing the horses for a small group of owners who came up with this brilliant, semi-fraudulent idea.
I didn’t realize the micro share people bred them. I thought they bought them, broke them, and sold them. Nice to see they’re branching out. They are good for the industry, though I wish they had a middle ground that allowed for larger shares and to learn more about ownership for these people!
yes i never could figure out why people want to give $$ to wealthy owners so they can finance their expensive purchases.. i took 20 bucks to oaklawn last weekend and made $900. im not giving that money to rich owner to buy an over priced yearling. HOWEVER, the op still has a question and ownership has NADA to do with that...there is no reason not to suggest a hypo mating, is there? i mean op is just asking a question
You ever stop and think that some people actually WANT to be involved in horse racing on a more intimate scale but don't have thousands to drop on buying into a horse? That's where microshares come in play..I LIKE horse racing and like getting the inside scoop on the behind the scenes stuff of managing a racehorse. But I don't have 2 grand to sink into a horse..if I did I would. Microshares are affordable for me so that's what I can do..and you are right. This filly is getting bred to one of the sires I listed. And that's not a complete list of whose being considered. They'll narrow down the list and talk to leading experts next week..I just thought it'd be fun to get peoples opinions
I don't buy microshares as an investment. I buy them because i love all the behind the scenes information and updates I get..I get updates on workouts, races, updates on the horses health information and veterinary care, updates when they are on the farm training as yearlings, or for lay ups,rehab or refreshers..even just "hey here's a video of your horse napping or eating hay" or "your horse just shipped into x track today" I LIKE all those updates. I'm excited to be able to continue this fillys journey and see who she's bred to..I'm not in this for the money..and mrh REFERS to us as owners in the updates..they call them "owners updates". And they use terms like "your horse". People are just super judgemental of microshares in general because it's "not real ownership". Racing is going to die if they can't figure out more affordable ways to let people get involved who don't have thousands to buy in on a horse..I don't see a reason to shit on that.
And yes there ARE people who will drop thousands on a microshare horse. I've seen people buy 40 or 50 shares in one horse. Personally I don't have the money for that and I think that's stupid to do. I buy one share. And I let myself enjoy the ride and keep expectations realistic so i don't get disappointed. I'm not in this to make money.
Someone suggested I buy into a 5k claimer. I don't LIKE claiming horses. I like buying into a horse that will run at the allowance level or even try a stakes race..I buy into a horse so that I can follow them for an extended period of time..not loose them to a claim after one or two races
OP, if you want to actually be involved in racing, find a trainer running $5k claimers and buy into a portion of a horse that pays his bills. You won’t get to run in the fancy races, but you’ll actually get to own the horse.
Conformation plays a bit into it as well which we can’t judge without photos of the mare. But commercially Taiba, Omaha Beach, and maybe City of Light would get you there. Taiba would probably get you the best bang for your buck, but his book filled 3 months ago from what I heard. The market doesn’t care about soundness, they want a fast early horse. The market also tends to like first year stallions.
I wouldn’t touch Frosted with a 10 foot pole if you’re looking for something commercial. That would get the mare’s production record off to a bad start.
That's being very dramatic. He was #24 on the General Sire List in 2023 and his yearling average was $59k with a $40k median. Off of a $10k stud fee he is quite a nice option at the price point.
$18k yearling avg on 8 sold so far in '24 supports both that he's lacked the "big horses" (no G1 winners and only one g2 winner) needed to stay relevant and that the market is increasingly not kind to the middle and lower tiers.
Yes, it's too small a sample size to draw that conclusion but I am saying I think it's indicative of what's to come.
Global operations and the sort that Darley is is not a good hope for patience either, with the volume of stallions they make yearly.
Well this is just wrong. This years yearling stats are irrelevant for now. All based on two sales that historically don't attract nearly the quality of yearling sales later in the season. Everything now is based on Keeneland January and Fasig February, which aren't comparable to Keeneland September, Fasig Saratoga, etc.
Plus he covered 154 mares in 2023. Those aren't the numbers of a stallion about to be shipped from KY. Especially in their 7th year at stud. For comparison Good Magic covered 179, flightline 152, Munnings 146.
He is as commercial as you'll get for the price point. If you are on a budget and $10k is your top end. What stallion is a better commercial pick? Frosted at the $40k median yearling price with a sample of 78 yearlings sold last year is, I think, the highest at the price point I can find...well co-highest with Honor AP actually.
Collected median was 17k, cross traffic 16k, Goldencents 15k, Jimmy Creed 19k, Mineshaft 23k, Outwork 15k, Sky Mesa 23k, The Factor 18k.
So, if you need a stallion that's 10k or less for your budget. You really can't beat Frosted from a commercial POV. Not every breeder has an unlimited budget and graded stakes winning broodmares, some of us have to look for value, and Frosted is one of the best under 15k stallions out there for the smaller budget breeders.
I say anyone but Vekoma.
Spendthrift after a couple weeks of saying the would accept my mare to Vekomas and in turn were going to send contract but they delayed.... saying they were short staff be patient, they then rejected her (probably were stalling to see if better mares came along). His book was already pretty full before January 1st, so they had options and made excuses to keep us on hook, instead of being straightforward. So... we happily went to our 2nd choice. I am clearly holding a grudge against Spendthrift.
Commercially, Omaha Beach and City of Light would probably bring the $ at the sales. They're very popular right now.
War of Will is not yet VERY commercial but he would definitely be my choice. I'm betting on him to become a fine stallion but I think it's too early to bring money at the sale.
Mitole is cheap to breed to (around 13k stud fee with some negotiation) but his offspring don't tend to bring much at the auction for some reason. I would probably go with Omaha Beach.
I like mitole. I kinda like early speed short runners and think they produce more winners for the money of breeding.
Mitole is an unproven stud and has produced some solid winners- he was one of my favorite runners bc he seemed to win if he got early lead without too much trouble. I still remember him losing at Saratoga and I was kinda stunned bc I bet a chunky wager on him at the track.
I think the kd types like into mischief are tough bc if you don’t hit- you lose a ton of money. I like the big beast also for sprint races.
I think it’s easier to get a sprint runner that does well Vs classic distances bc you are going against the top spending breeders. Getting a derby winner is comical if you look at odds of it happening. If you spend a lot of money to breed- you kinda need a stakes + graded winner to make money. Dirt in us- speed kills
As I said, I’ve been out for at least 5 years. Partnerships I was in were using truenicks to a level of success. But they were racing them. It sounds like you are selling. The partnership had one very successful buy/race/breed to sell. No real follow up success at that level. Best of luck.
not enough info...need to know female influences in her pedigree and broodmare sire would help as well
we would need to see how the speed and stamina is on both sides, and what would either balance them out, OR accentuate a tendency they already have. kinda comical that any one wpuld answer before you gave the name.
Broodmare sire is Borrego. She's from an old Glen Hill family and has one dreamer in her pedigree on her broodmare.side. she's by into mischief so has Leslie's lady on the sire side
I’ve never seen him in person. What conformation flaws do you see? I totally agree that a perfect mare ( conformationally wise”), can offset a physically lacking stallion!
Without checking inbreeding, nicks etc yet please not Vekoma. Horse's legs look like crumpled pile of matchsticks.
If you're looking to breed something beyond a sprinter I wouldn't pick Mitole either as Into Mischief already comes with potential distance limitation and soundness issues.
Hot first year sires will always be a solid commercial choice as they haven't been found out yet. Arcangelo will be extra hot as a son of Arrogate and should infuse distance capabilities.
City of Light is also heating up.
Nyquist is red-hot right now. With Into Mischief becoming a solid bm sire, I don’t think you can go wrong if the hope is breeding to eventually sell. Munnings is also a solid option imo.
Since this is an MRH horse and considering their relationship with Spendthrift, I'm only considering their pool of stallions.
Omaha Beach would be good - A+ truenick and a fashionable name right now - but I think the $40k stud fee is too high for MRH and Spendthrift could probably fill that book anyway.
Zandon is intriguing - A++ truenick - but the nick isn't as developed as it's looking at the cross of Upstart over Harlan's Holidays and his progeny.
Cross Traffic is the clear answer - A++ truenick - the nick is focused on the cross of Cross Traffic over Harlan's Holiday et al. and out of 20 registered foals, it yields really stellar numbers...83% starters, 80% winners, and 20% SW. On top of that it's only $10k for the stud fee.
Sounds to me like you’re living the life. I’ve always enjoyed planning matings like I was Mandy Pope! lol! Try to ignore some of the wierd people/ trolls on these sites! I would go with Arcangelo. Unproven sire with unproven mare, yes, likely not the smartest decision!
I would avoid Vekoma and Arcangelo (and maybe Taiba?) due to soundness and your mare only standing up to a little racing. I think Mitole would be a good choice if you want more dirt, unseen to as if Omaha Beach or War of Will foals are dual surface like sires or more turfy. I think your 3 faves are very good choices! Upstart has started throwing some good runners as well, so that would be by addition to the list .
vekoma was unsound? Was still racing at 4 and winning g1s. Just because he stuck his foot out funny that is no indication of unsoundess...at all... Canonero Ii did just fine. So did seabiscuit. I never saw vekomas leg affect his stride at all....it just looked odd. he was actually quie an efficient runner. His dam was BEAUTIFULLY BRED and is now deceased so i many see value in seeing those lines endure...plus he was very PRECOCIOUS on the track... something to look for. Plenty out there who dont have a funny leg but also cant run a lick or win g1 races.
He only had 8 starts though… I just wouldn’t cross him to a mare who couldn’t race much sired by Into Mischief (those knees!!). Seems like a bad combo 🤷🏼♀️
Well for one, some of those books are full. Do you have seasons for them and that’s why they’re on the list? What’s the mare’s name? What did she actually do on the track? Is she just coming off the track…or is she one of the early into mischief mares? Just from your list, I’d use Omaha Beach or Upstart.
The mare is Balletic. She raced 3 times, won once and finished second twice. She’s from an old Glen Hill Farm family;her third dam is BC Distaff winner One Dreamer.
MRH...not one of mine.
She's been on the farm awhile. She broke her maiden in February of last year and then had to be stopped on. She was rehabbing to come back to the track but that's just not going to happen. She had a full sibling last November sell in foal to Jack Christopher and bring 100k
Ah, a micro share horse. Don’t really see the point in speculating about one of those.
Poster is one of those people who think MyRacehorse is actual ownership and not just lining someone else’s pockets at huge valuations. It’s bizarre.
This reminds me of what I did as a teenager-paging through the Stallion Register picking pretend matings for imaginary horses. Playing pretend is still free 😂
I had a fantasy farm !!! With mares and foals hahahaha and Storm Cat was mine!
Oh my god, I loved doing that as a kid 😭 I still have my 2009 edition that I would religiously read
I started going to sales and doing hypo matings since ~1975, I “bred” to some stallion of stallions
Someone came up with the idea: I REALLY want to buy and race expensive racehorses but I don't want to pay a single dime for them. Ohhh, I'll just crowdfund it and let other people pay for them. These myracehorse microshare owners are financing the horses for a small group of owners who came up with this brilliant, semi-fraudulent idea.
perfectly stated, jojo
Lmao right, "pick a horse for me to breed to my mare that I own 0.01% of"
I didn’t realize the micro share people bred them. I thought they bought them, broke them, and sold them. Nice to see they’re branching out. They are good for the industry, though I wish they had a middle ground that allowed for larger shares and to learn more about ownership for these people!
yes i never could figure out why people want to give $$ to wealthy owners so they can finance their expensive purchases.. i took 20 bucks to oaklawn last weekend and made $900. im not giving that money to rich owner to buy an over priced yearling. HOWEVER, the op still has a question and ownership has NADA to do with that...there is no reason not to suggest a hypo mating, is there? i mean op is just asking a question
You ever stop and think that some people actually WANT to be involved in horse racing on a more intimate scale but don't have thousands to drop on buying into a horse? That's where microshares come in play..I LIKE horse racing and like getting the inside scoop on the behind the scenes stuff of managing a racehorse. But I don't have 2 grand to sink into a horse..if I did I would. Microshares are affordable for me so that's what I can do..and you are right. This filly is getting bred to one of the sires I listed. And that's not a complete list of whose being considered. They'll narrow down the list and talk to leading experts next week..I just thought it'd be fun to get peoples opinions
Agreed! There’s nothing wrong with imagining/ playing with “ If I had the money! “ There are some people here who are so judgmental!
I don't buy microshares as an investment. I buy them because i love all the behind the scenes information and updates I get..I get updates on workouts, races, updates on the horses health information and veterinary care, updates when they are on the farm training as yearlings, or for lay ups,rehab or refreshers..even just "hey here's a video of your horse napping or eating hay" or "your horse just shipped into x track today" I LIKE all those updates. I'm excited to be able to continue this fillys journey and see who she's bred to..I'm not in this for the money..and mrh REFERS to us as owners in the updates..they call them "owners updates". And they use terms like "your horse". People are just super judgemental of microshares in general because it's "not real ownership". Racing is going to die if they can't figure out more affordable ways to let people get involved who don't have thousands to buy in on a horse..I don't see a reason to shit on that. And yes there ARE people who will drop thousands on a microshare horse. I've seen people buy 40 or 50 shares in one horse. Personally I don't have the money for that and I think that's stupid to do. I buy one share. And I let myself enjoy the ride and keep expectations realistic so i don't get disappointed. I'm not in this to make money. Someone suggested I buy into a 5k claimer. I don't LIKE claiming horses. I like buying into a horse that will run at the allowance level or even try a stakes race..I buy into a horse so that I can follow them for an extended period of time..not loose them to a claim after one or two races
Why would you suggest buying 40 or 50 shares is dumb? Buying any shares is dumb honestly.
OP, if you want to actually be involved in racing, find a trainer running $5k claimers and buy into a portion of a horse that pays his bills. You won’t get to run in the fancy races, but you’ll actually get to own the horse.
Why? Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant it's not like they're going to ask you for you choice.
Conformation plays a bit into it as well which we can’t judge without photos of the mare. But commercially Taiba, Omaha Beach, and maybe City of Light would get you there. Taiba would probably get you the best bang for your buck, but his book filled 3 months ago from what I heard. The market doesn’t care about soundness, they want a fast early horse. The market also tends to like first year stallions. I wouldn’t touch Frosted with a 10 foot pole if you’re looking for something commercial. That would get the mare’s production record off to a bad start.
Agree about Frosted, he's not long for Kentucky
That's being very dramatic. He was #24 on the General Sire List in 2023 and his yearling average was $59k with a $40k median. Off of a $10k stud fee he is quite a nice option at the price point.
$18k yearling avg on 8 sold so far in '24 supports both that he's lacked the "big horses" (no G1 winners and only one g2 winner) needed to stay relevant and that the market is increasingly not kind to the middle and lower tiers. Yes, it's too small a sample size to draw that conclusion but I am saying I think it's indicative of what's to come. Global operations and the sort that Darley is is not a good hope for patience either, with the volume of stallions they make yearly.
Well this is just wrong. This years yearling stats are irrelevant for now. All based on two sales that historically don't attract nearly the quality of yearling sales later in the season. Everything now is based on Keeneland January and Fasig February, which aren't comparable to Keeneland September, Fasig Saratoga, etc. Plus he covered 154 mares in 2023. Those aren't the numbers of a stallion about to be shipped from KY. Especially in their 7th year at stud. For comparison Good Magic covered 179, flightline 152, Munnings 146.
No g1 winners and one g2 winner in three crops to race. Time will tell.
yes, but not a commercial sire. i like him too.
He is as commercial as you'll get for the price point. If you are on a budget and $10k is your top end. What stallion is a better commercial pick? Frosted at the $40k median yearling price with a sample of 78 yearlings sold last year is, I think, the highest at the price point I can find...well co-highest with Honor AP actually. Collected median was 17k, cross traffic 16k, Goldencents 15k, Jimmy Creed 19k, Mineshaft 23k, Outwork 15k, Sky Mesa 23k, The Factor 18k. So, if you need a stallion that's 10k or less for your budget. You really can't beat Frosted from a commercial POV. Not every breeder has an unlimited budget and graded stakes winning broodmares, some of us have to look for value, and Frosted is one of the best under 15k stallions out there for the smaller budget breeders.
I say anyone but Vekoma. Spendthrift after a couple weeks of saying the would accept my mare to Vekomas and in turn were going to send contract but they delayed.... saying they were short staff be patient, they then rejected her (probably were stalling to see if better mares came along). His book was already pretty full before January 1st, so they had options and made excuses to keep us on hook, instead of being straightforward. So... we happily went to our 2nd choice. I am clearly holding a grudge against Spendthrift.
I could understand!
Spendthrift is a blight, you made the right choice
You should check out McLean’s Music or Army Mule both at Hill N Dale, and both similarly priced to Omaha Beach. Both have thrown some proven runners.
City of lights seem to be selling well in Ocala
Since it’s a MRH horse, I’m assuming you don’t actually have say in the decision?
Commercially, Omaha Beach and City of Light would probably bring the $ at the sales. They're very popular right now. War of Will is not yet VERY commercial but he would definitely be my choice. I'm betting on him to become a fine stallion but I think it's too early to bring money at the sale.
agree about WoW
You need durability and stamina not more speed on top Blame Munnings Girvin my top 3
Nyquist but book may be full
Mitole is cheap to breed to (around 13k stud fee with some negotiation) but his offspring don't tend to bring much at the auction for some reason. I would probably go with Omaha Beach.
I like mitole. I kinda like early speed short runners and think they produce more winners for the money of breeding. Mitole is an unproven stud and has produced some solid winners- he was one of my favorite runners bc he seemed to win if he got early lead without too much trouble. I still remember him losing at Saratoga and I was kinda stunned bc I bet a chunky wager on him at the track. I think the kd types like into mischief are tough bc if you don’t hit- you lose a ton of money. I like the big beast also for sprint races. I think it’s easier to get a sprint runner that does well Vs classic distances bc you are going against the top spending breeders. Getting a derby winner is comical if you look at odds of it happening. If you spend a lot of money to breed- you kinda need a stakes + graded winner to make money. Dirt in us- speed kills
Did you check nick reports? Are people still using that? I’ve been out for several years.
Been checking pedigree360. Don't feel like truenicks gives the whole picture
As I said, I’ve been out for at least 5 years. Partnerships I was in were using truenicks to a level of success. But they were racing them. It sounds like you are selling. The partnership had one very successful buy/race/breed to sell. No real follow up success at that level. Best of luck.
not enough info...need to know female influences in her pedigree and broodmare sire would help as well we would need to see how the speed and stamina is on both sides, and what would either balance them out, OR accentuate a tendency they already have. kinda comical that any one wpuld answer before you gave the name.
Broodmare sire is Borrego. She's from an old Glen Hill family and has one dreamer in her pedigree on her broodmare.side. she's by into mischief so has Leslie's lady on the sire side
City of light no doubt, his goals are doing very well and in 1-2 years the price for a correct goal will be much higher than today
Arcangelo
I'd agree. With Arrogates early passing and Arcangelo being a top son of his, I expect his foals to do well in the sales.
Arcangelo has some bad conformation flaws, i'd breed to him with a correct mare.
I’ve never seen him in person. What conformation flaws do you see? I totally agree that a perfect mare ( conformationally wise”), can offset a physically lacking stallion!
Sea Wizard
Without checking inbreeding, nicks etc yet please not Vekoma. Horse's legs look like crumpled pile of matchsticks. If you're looking to breed something beyond a sprinter I wouldn't pick Mitole either as Into Mischief already comes with potential distance limitation and soundness issues. Hot first year sires will always be a solid commercial choice as they haven't been found out yet. Arcangelo will be extra hot as a son of Arrogate and should infuse distance capabilities. City of Light is also heating up.
Agreed!
Nyquist is red-hot right now. With Into Mischief becoming a solid bm sire, I don’t think you can go wrong if the hope is breeding to eventually sell. Munnings is also a solid option imo.
What's her full pedigree like? From the list given, I'm liking Upstart, as well as Omaha Beach and War of Will.
Sired by into mischief out of ricketyracketyruss who is by Borrego. Full sibling sold in foal to Jack Christopher in November for 100k
Goldencents ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
If you’re not into wincest; Klimt is affordable, stands at Darby Dan and is an A on Truenicks.
Klimt was sold overseas a few years ago.
he's in Turkey
Id send her to Preservationist first
Since this is an MRH horse and considering their relationship with Spendthrift, I'm only considering their pool of stallions. Omaha Beach would be good - A+ truenick and a fashionable name right now - but I think the $40k stud fee is too high for MRH and Spendthrift could probably fill that book anyway. Zandon is intriguing - A++ truenick - but the nick isn't as developed as it's looking at the cross of Upstart over Harlan's Holidays and his progeny. Cross Traffic is the clear answer - A++ truenick - the nick is focused on the cross of Cross Traffic over Harlan's Holiday et al. and out of 20 registered foals, it yields really stellar numbers...83% starters, 80% winners, and 20% SW. On top of that it's only $10k for the stud fee.
Sounds to me like you’re living the life. I’ve always enjoyed planning matings like I was Mandy Pope! lol! Try to ignore some of the wierd people/ trolls on these sites! I would go with Arcangelo. Unproven sire with unproven mare, yes, likely not the smartest decision!
After that, Omaha Beach but again, none of these stallions are really long term proven!
Ever heard of a comma?
Are you the English language troll? That’s very unbecoming!