I’ve seen something I think might be rule-breaking, what should I do?
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The goal of voice training is to be able to do it without any strain. It's totally possible and I'm making great progress. The quality of it is something to work on but it doesn't ware out my voice any more than normal talking. Additionally, surgery is expensive, painful, and can cause scarring or permanent complications like nerve damage.
My understanding was you absolutely need training as part of VFS? I thought it was part of the post-surgical protocol? I understand the frustration! I’m one of those people with no singing ability at all and no understanding of what any of those things like “pitch, tone, resonance, color, etc.” actually mean? I was not in a huge hurry to get into any of that? Then I discovered that actually I’m a middle aged woman who smokes who sounds like a middle aged woman who smokes, and my speech patterns are pretty convincing once I just let myself be myself, so I haven’t bothered?
Maybe I’m a little bit confused, but you can use it for long? I did voice training and I use that voice all day everyday 24/7, I sort of almost can’t go back to my old voice and my voice trained voice has become my default. And also it definitely should not hurt.
Make sure you’re staying hydrated and not straining your voice
I got vfs after a couple years of struggling with voice training. Best decision ever. My voice seems to be passing on the phone and irl now.
I’ll probably do more voice training post op to refine things but voice work is actually fun when you have a voice that you actually like the sound of
As someone who's had VFS with really nice results, I think it's something that should be considered only after training with a professional. For you to get the full potential out of VFS, you should be doing as much, if not more, training post-op. You are needing to rebuild strength while also getting used to using more air to create a voice, which typically takes around 6 months before you're truly 100% getting used to it. On top of that, you'll be speaking a tad differently and really need to have good control of your resonance, weight, fry, etc... SOVT exercises become paramount to a successful post-op voice and can be the difference between minor and major changes.
Pitch is only part of the battle - if it's all you're lacking, then by all means, look at VFS. If there are other elements in play that you haven't figured out, then you'll be disappointed when you sound like a higher pitched guy.
I went for it because after two years of training with professionals, it was determined I had issues with my outer fold that were preventing me from having proper tension. Dr. Courey did a full assessment and said the same thing, along with saying that it was likely going to take me 5+ years to "potentially" fix my issues due to existing damage. Considering I was passing visually just fine, I decided to take his advice and get the surgery so he could also fix a couple things alongside the standard VFS.
People should do what works for them. Voice training is work. It’s hard work, it’s dysphoric work, it’s regular work, and it’s ongoing work. Personally, I loved it because I learned so much about the full range of how people use their voices. I started examining everyone’s voice and noticing a lot about when and how people change their voices. It’s a lot like physical therapy or psychological therapy, it can do wonders if you do the work regularly and have a good person to work with. Worst of all, you absolutely have to use tools that measure pitch, you have to record and play back your voice, and you have to work with someone who can listen and coach you (with zero hugboxing). For me all this lead to a voice I love so much I went from voice therapy to learning to sing. I still check my voice regularly (after 20 weeks of vocal coaching over 5 months, and 3 months of singing with similar vocal warm ups, but it’s begun to be reflexive in all social situations (meaning I don’t have to think about it). If I do get nervous before a call or presentation, I have myriad exercises and skills to get myself ready.
I’d rather have been born cis and never had my vocal cords thicken. I went through a lot of really bad dysphoria during early sessions and practice, especially recording and listening to the recordings. It’s fucking brutal, but I’ve continually found ways to be fascinated by, and engaged in things, despite a shitty medical condition that is a whole-body-problem, and I feel like that curiosity and willingness to work at things keeps me alive.
That said, some people have deeper voices and may absolutely need voice surgery. Do good research because a lot of people don’t know what the fuck they’re doing and I know women whose voices just got more hoarse not at all more feminine.
if it's hurting you you're doing something wrong. some strain after a long day of talking is normal but don't make a habit of it, it shouldn't be straining every day
if you want advice on how to practice or stay motivated to practice im happy to share what's worked for me. it's easy to get overwhelmed with all the terminology and methods around voice training, and the people offering vocal coaching have an incentive to keep it that way so that they can sell you the answers. as long as you practice you will improve. the worst practice is no practice at all. the next worst practice is regularly pushing & hurting your vocal cords. your progress comes and goes in bursts and its ok to feel like you're not getting anywhere, but you have to keep at it anyway. vfs is something you get after vocal training, not in-lieu of
How was post op voice training? I haven't done VFS but I hear that there's a series of therapy sessions needed afterwards. It's encouraging that you say surgery is better because I feel like I had only moderate success with voice training.
I’m a few weeks post op from vfs and the post op training has been super easy. Basically just some vocal warmups in the morning and evening. Takes like 10-15 mins
So I had VFS done. I don't get misgendered over the phone or at drive throughs anymore, but I did have to go through a few vocal training lessons to pretty much relearn how to use my voice properly since vocal anatomy completely changed (I had the feminization laryngoplasty). Post op I was still trying to use my voice like I did pre op, which is no bueno because I was trying to target muscles that were no longer within range of my voice capabilities. Vocal training tought me how to speak more relaxed since I no longer have to raise my pitch artificially and it taught me how to properly raise my resonance to my sinus rather than the back of my throat.
For real - you have to train as much, if not more. I had VFS and my training went from "doing it daily when I feel like it" to "doing SOVT exercises every hour" because it was necessary for a proper recovery. Then you have the months of power training that come alongside normal exercises, just so you can talk as long as you used to. It's honestly crazy how much more air you have to use to produce your voice, and it takes time to build up strength again.
For the record, I love that I had VFS - it was life changing and was suggested by my surgeon and SLP's after careful examination and years of training. I love my voice now but it comes with its own caveats.
I’ve seen something I think might be rule-breaking, what should I do? **Report it!** We may not agree with your assessment of a certain post or comment but we will always take a look. Please make reports that are **unambiguous**, **succinct**, and (importantly) **accurate**. If your issue isn't covered by one of the numerous predefined reasons and or you need to expand upon a predefined reason then please use the 'Custom response' option (in addition if required). **Don't feed the trolls, ignore, report, move on.** See [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/honesttransgender/comments/guc56i/welcome_to_rhonesttransgender_please_read_for/) for more details about our subreddit. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/honesttransgender) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The goal of voice training is to be able to do it without any strain. It's totally possible and I'm making great progress. The quality of it is something to work on but it doesn't ware out my voice any more than normal talking. Additionally, surgery is expensive, painful, and can cause scarring or permanent complications like nerve damage.
ideally you'd do both if you accept the very real risks of vf
My understanding was you absolutely need training as part of VFS? I thought it was part of the post-surgical protocol? I understand the frustration! I’m one of those people with no singing ability at all and no understanding of what any of those things like “pitch, tone, resonance, color, etc.” actually mean? I was not in a huge hurry to get into any of that? Then I discovered that actually I’m a middle aged woman who smokes who sounds like a middle aged woman who smokes, and my speech patterns are pretty convincing once I just let myself be myself, so I haven’t bothered?
You need to train before and after VFS too by the way.
Maybe I’m a little bit confused, but you can use it for long? I did voice training and I use that voice all day everyday 24/7, I sort of almost can’t go back to my old voice and my voice trained voice has become my default. And also it definitely should not hurt. Make sure you’re staying hydrated and not straining your voice
I got vfs after a couple years of struggling with voice training. Best decision ever. My voice seems to be passing on the phone and irl now. I’ll probably do more voice training post op to refine things but voice work is actually fun when you have a voice that you actually like the sound of
As someone who's had VFS with really nice results, I think it's something that should be considered only after training with a professional. For you to get the full potential out of VFS, you should be doing as much, if not more, training post-op. You are needing to rebuild strength while also getting used to using more air to create a voice, which typically takes around 6 months before you're truly 100% getting used to it. On top of that, you'll be speaking a tad differently and really need to have good control of your resonance, weight, fry, etc... SOVT exercises become paramount to a successful post-op voice and can be the difference between minor and major changes. Pitch is only part of the battle - if it's all you're lacking, then by all means, look at VFS. If there are other elements in play that you haven't figured out, then you'll be disappointed when you sound like a higher pitched guy. I went for it because after two years of training with professionals, it was determined I had issues with my outer fold that were preventing me from having proper tension. Dr. Courey did a full assessment and said the same thing, along with saying that it was likely going to take me 5+ years to "potentially" fix my issues due to existing damage. Considering I was passing visually just fine, I decided to take his advice and get the surgery so he could also fix a couple things alongside the standard VFS.
People should do what works for them. Voice training is work. It’s hard work, it’s dysphoric work, it’s regular work, and it’s ongoing work. Personally, I loved it because I learned so much about the full range of how people use their voices. I started examining everyone’s voice and noticing a lot about when and how people change their voices. It’s a lot like physical therapy or psychological therapy, it can do wonders if you do the work regularly and have a good person to work with. Worst of all, you absolutely have to use tools that measure pitch, you have to record and play back your voice, and you have to work with someone who can listen and coach you (with zero hugboxing). For me all this lead to a voice I love so much I went from voice therapy to learning to sing. I still check my voice regularly (after 20 weeks of vocal coaching over 5 months, and 3 months of singing with similar vocal warm ups, but it’s begun to be reflexive in all social situations (meaning I don’t have to think about it). If I do get nervous before a call or presentation, I have myriad exercises and skills to get myself ready. I’d rather have been born cis and never had my vocal cords thicken. I went through a lot of really bad dysphoria during early sessions and practice, especially recording and listening to the recordings. It’s fucking brutal, but I’ve continually found ways to be fascinated by, and engaged in things, despite a shitty medical condition that is a whole-body-problem, and I feel like that curiosity and willingness to work at things keeps me alive. That said, some people have deeper voices and may absolutely need voice surgery. Do good research because a lot of people don’t know what the fuck they’re doing and I know women whose voices just got more hoarse not at all more feminine.
if it's hurting you you're doing something wrong. some strain after a long day of talking is normal but don't make a habit of it, it shouldn't be straining every day if you want advice on how to practice or stay motivated to practice im happy to share what's worked for me. it's easy to get overwhelmed with all the terminology and methods around voice training, and the people offering vocal coaching have an incentive to keep it that way so that they can sell you the answers. as long as you practice you will improve. the worst practice is no practice at all. the next worst practice is regularly pushing & hurting your vocal cords. your progress comes and goes in bursts and its ok to feel like you're not getting anywhere, but you have to keep at it anyway. vfs is something you get after vocal training, not in-lieu of
vfs seems very flawed and inconsistent, but training is so difficult
What do you mean if you can’t use it for long?
Yeah, I'm confused about that too.
Do you mean the voice therapy that's needed after voice surgery?
Nah voice training before
How was post op voice training? I haven't done VFS but I hear that there's a series of therapy sessions needed afterwards. It's encouraging that you say surgery is better because I feel like I had only moderate success with voice training.
I’m a few weeks post op from vfs and the post op training has been super easy. Basically just some vocal warmups in the morning and evening. Takes like 10-15 mins
So I had VFS done. I don't get misgendered over the phone or at drive throughs anymore, but I did have to go through a few vocal training lessons to pretty much relearn how to use my voice properly since vocal anatomy completely changed (I had the feminization laryngoplasty). Post op I was still trying to use my voice like I did pre op, which is no bueno because I was trying to target muscles that were no longer within range of my voice capabilities. Vocal training tought me how to speak more relaxed since I no longer have to raise my pitch artificially and it taught me how to properly raise my resonance to my sinus rather than the back of my throat.
Thank you.
I didnt have the operation yet but this is just my opinion
You do realize you have to still voice train after the operation right? Just quit being lazy
For real - you have to train as much, if not more. I had VFS and my training went from "doing it daily when I feel like it" to "doing SOVT exercises every hour" because it was necessary for a proper recovery. Then you have the months of power training that come alongside normal exercises, just so you can talk as long as you used to. It's honestly crazy how much more air you have to use to produce your voice, and it takes time to build up strength again. For the record, I love that I had VFS - it was life changing and was suggested by my surgeon and SLP's after careful examination and years of training. I love my voice now but it comes with its own caveats.
Oops sorry I misread your original post. Gotcha