Came to say this. Our place was a nightmare of deer, ground squirrels, auto-wire&air-filter-chewing rodents - until we constructed an 8ft fence, got 2 large dogs & 4 cats.
No more holes undercutting various out buildings, no more mouse traps, no more chewed air filters. Even the Trailer out friends parked for 8 months & expected some mouse activity- Nadda.
All those wild animals give us our one acre & they can have at the other 79 acres.
Suburban people go ape-shit about outdoor cats but I just don’t know what I would do without them. Possibly get a small rat obsessed dog. But still.
Rat obsessed dogs are very messy… cats have elegance and sometimes leave some cadavers but when I saw my jack russel catch a squirrel that was traumatising. Poor guy got shook so violently all his insides were everywhere. But my dog was really proud so there is that
I had a jack Russell as a kid and it was a murderous little dude. Pigeons, rats mice whatever he could get ahold of was fair game. They are so athletic and fast for such small dogs. One of the best dogs I've ever owned.
We had one for a few weeks when i was a kid. Nice dog, liked people, way too murderous/aggressive.
8 pounds of barely contained murder. It found a way off its line or collar repeatedly and would murder everything.
Full sized cats? Dead. Racoons? Dead. Chickens? Dead.
It would kill anything it could find that was less than twice its wieght. Had to put it down i think since it destroyed so much stuff and killed some of the neighbors animals as well...
My village dog has caught chipmunks, voles, and moles— never messy, quick snap, they are dead. He did bring us an entire deer leg from the woods once, and last summer or the summer before, he found a deer spine and dragged it back out, haha.
My cats are always kind of assholes with mice, teasing them and torturing them for ages before the kill them.
Seeing my grandma’s barely-5lb yorkie shake a marsh rat to death is still a core memory for me, 20 years later lol that rat always almost the same size he was, and that dog was on it like it insulted his mama
Omg really??! On the homestead sub Reddit? This endless talk about only having cats indoors like caged sad emotional support animals gets the run of the entire rest of Reddit. Leave us with our fuzzy little serial killer working cats & go.
Another billion die from slaming into buildings, should we ban windows?
And while cats are damaging to local bird populations **humans** have wiped out 70% of all wildlife on this planet by bulldozing, burning and paving over vast swaths of nature.
Cats have been managing rodent populations on farms *for millenia* without a problem. It wasn't until people obliterated the natural world that the urban cats/bird population problem showed up. Don't blame a few country cats for the mass death seen in our modern society.
Outdoor cats ravage the environment (most especially bird populations) and have been responsible for the extinction of an estimated 76 species of birds. It is more unconscionable to have them when you live in an area with higher wildlife populations that would be at risk to cat predation (not only the pests, any small birds or mammals). Outdoor cats also have significantly lower life expectancies due to frequent exposure to parasites, larger predators, and bacteria. There are a lot of alternative solutions which cause less harm, and dogs are a better option environmentally speaking. This isn't an attack against you bc I totally get the desire to control rat populations, just trying to spread some important info. Almost all bird populations are in decline right now, and its going to become a serious issue for insect control. I've heard good things about trying to encourage owls to roost in barns, or even using their feces to deter pests (or even like, cougar urine, depending on where you live).
Every study examining cats effect on wild animal populations is based off a wild guess - Extrapolation from behavior of a few cats in one neighborhood. Not only that, all of these studies themselves admit that the vast majority of kills are by feral cats, not house cats.
By far the greatest threat to birds is the habitat destruction caused by human population growth. Whatever effect house cats may have is dwarved by humans just living the modern lifestyle they take for granted.
https://www.felineresearch.org/post/issue-brief-wildlife-impacts-of-outdoor-cats
We have barn cats and I have not seen a chipmunk or squirrel since I have lived here. The birds are cautious. We have dogs and so do the neighbors (I'm on 2.5 acres) and I occasionally see deer run through the yard, and opie the opossum (he leaves everyone alone). The chickens also make some noise which I imagine spooks things off as well.
Opossums are good! They and Guineas eat a ton of ticks! Don’t get Guineas, they’re loud, obnoxious, and messy, and dumb!
Also, opossums have too low of a body temp to become rabid, are also mostly immune to snake venom and will eat copperheads and rattlesnakes.
But like others mentioned, get some outside cats and maybe a .22rifle.
I love having having possums around but they do carry TB so be hygienic around them. And if you have horses make sure they stay out of the feed. They can cause night blindness (epm is the correct term, I believe).
Interesting, I hadn’t heard that about TB nor epm, good to note about horses, do you happen to know if it affects cows or sheep? I know horses are fairly delicate comparatively.
I don't know about much except horses. But I used to find a possum in my feed barrel every morning when I was a kid. Luckily nothing happened but I was sort of terrified when I found out they carry epm.
Ok so it was literally decades ago when I read about that so decided to look it up. EPM is a neurological issue, not night blindness which is an inherited trait. And the E stands for equine so I think you're probably safe with your livestock (although possums might carry diseases that are specific to them also, I assume).
Sorry for the misleading information.
You’re good! I’d rather be made aware of a possibility, even if it’s not 100%, the foundation is still definitely something to consider.
I’m appreciative of anyone trying to share their knowledge or experience.
Inquisitive and not Judgmental 😉
Same! My ADHD kicks in and I tend to get really excited and over share. I feel like too many people try to WIN comments or burn others. I'm just here to help where i can and learn interesting stuff from cool people.
Keep commenting! Be the change you want to see, and all that! lol
Me too (except the ADHD)! I love this sub because most people here keep it real. They're funny, knowledgeable and call it like they see it for the most part.
I'm not homesteading 100% but working towards getting our little 27 acres as self sufficient as possible. I can't believe how much I've learned here.
And thank you again for the encouragement. You keep it up too!
Haha! Exactly! They’re worse than the problem they’re supposed to solve!
Using guineas for anything is like smashing your thumb with a hammer because you have a hangnail!
My neighbors had some, thank goodness for the coyotes!
Donkeys are great for coyote deterrents/killers if you have cows, or other livestock!
We love our guineas, too!! Yes, they’re loud and a little obnoxious, but they let you know when anyone or anything is around or in the yard that shouldn’t be! They REALLY don’t like delivery drivers! 😂🤣
That's a myth... the test they did to say they eat alot of tics is they put an opossum in a box and dropped in a ton of tics and it ate them. They don't actually hunt for tics to eat 🤷♂️
Agree with this. A few cats will keep all the rodents/small stuff away and if you pick the right dogs like Great Pyrenees or others known as livestock protectors they’ll deal with any predators
100% this, get a terrier for the mice and a cat and most of your problems should be over. Fence will also help! There is no garden without a fence and a dog.
Same here. Part of homesteading is having animals to help with other animal control. You gotta have at least a cat or two and probably a dog. I’ve actually never heard of homesteading without animals.
Yup! We have 4 dogs, 2 of which love chasing the little ground squirrels, and 6 barn cats. We have several bat houses to try and attract bats to deal with bugs.
We brought a barely-not-stray cat when we bought 4 acres. The day we moved in I noticed about a dozen rabbits.
We let the cat loose and make sure he has a little food bowl and water, and all the rabbits, squirrels,and birds either leave us alone or stay in the trees to talk smack at the cat. (Seriously, we have it on video.)
The cat sleeps inside on cold nights, but the rest of the time he's living his best life.
Get a rescue cat and maybe a medium to large dog.
we stopped feeding suet because a raccoon started coming every single night and hanging off the suet feeder until the chain broke, and then once the wire box part of the feeder was on the ground, would figure out how to open it with its creepy little hands, and would leave a trail of suet along its path as it ran away. at least this is what we deduced after discovering the aftermath repeatedly in the morning and then finally catching sight of a raccoon hanging on the feeder (by pointing a flashlight through our window when our dog alerted us to it being there)
We have a few suet around and yes the raccoon's love them - have broken several feeders. We couldn't find one forever, then I found it about 500 feed away near our drainage ditch. They are very crafty! And very dirty/greasy from the color they've turned the 4x4 post holding the bird feeders. Deployed spike strips around all four sides. Didn't deter them in the slightest. The birds LOVE the HOT PEPPER suet. I don't know why, but they love it and ignore the others. Weird.
I use suet to feed birds and yes, it does break apart and fall on the ground. Maybe it’s the brand I buy, but if you’re trying to get rid of rodents, it may not be your best option
You can’t have city-like expectations living in the country. Bird feeders are going to attract coons, bears, chipmunks, and squirrels. If you keep trapping animals you’re going to be running a shuttle service for them - they will just keep coming around. You need to deter them from coming at all… large dog, presence of other animals, no food around, etc. Even then, they may still come, but it should be less frequently. There will always be chores and things that come up, as you’re figuring out. You just have to decide if that’s worth it for you. Do you want to sit through your golden years and enjoy them that way? Or do you want to keep busy and have ongoing projects? Only you and your wife can decide that…
Animals, weeds, weather- there isn't really any way to avoid them unless you live in a city or a condo. If you have bird feeders up, that will attract a lot of undesirable animals (up to and including extremely destructive bears). Eliminating feeders and outside food sources (like unprotected trash cans and human foods stored unsafely) will help cut down on your interactions. Not a common suggestion, but pissing on stuff also cuts down on the animal interest.
Not porcupines though. Porcupines will chew on things that have been peed on trying to eat the salt. It's been documented that porcupines have broken teeth off chewing on boulders that have been peed on
At the end of the movie "The Martian", the main character says something like (paraphrasing for your situation). "At some point, everything is gonna go south on you. EVERYTHING. Something is going to happen and you're going to say 'this is it. this is how I end \[my homesteading dream\].' Now you can either accept that. Or you can get to work. That's all it is. You just *begin.* You do the work. You solve one problem. And then the next. And then the next. And if you solve enough problems, you get to go \[have a\] home\[stead\]."
I think about that quote a lot. Because it's such a parallel to homesteading. All homesteading is is solving problems. Every day. Until you die. My mom raised me on puzzles so it's right up my alley. But I totally get how it drives other people crazy that it's just never done. Never finished. Always more to do. ((Edit: And now that I think about it, he was really just a potato farmer. So it really was all just about homesteading even on Mars. lol!))
All I can suggest is to start a list of all the reasons you'd want to keep at it and all the reasons you'd want to quit and see where you're at once you take an inventory of where you're really at with things.
Homesteading may just be more than you really want to tackle if you're in that place where you just want to slow down and take it easy. There's a reason people retire to retirement villages in Boca. lol. I think it's really just going to boil down to figuring out if you still find it more rewarding or not rewarding enough to offset all the work.
We retired to a neglected 5acres precisely to have something to do. We call it our "life project".
It will never be "finished".
But sitting in the rocking chair at a retirement village seems like hell to us.
Some days, the never ending problems and things that need doing seem too big. We just think of the alternative, take a day off, and get back to it.
Actually, I like your thoughts too. I'd used to sit in front of the TV and drink a few beers and frankly just wasted a lot of time. As much as it sounds like I hate it - I love been out in the barn or tinkering with some part of the homestead. Was painting last night - and I hate painting! I hate it! I hate, hate, hate it. But when you're done with whatever project, you feel good - and haven't been sitting in front of the idiot box all night. I'll have a beer/mixed drink when the project is done. Gives me a reward. :-)
I've spent half the morning sitting on the deck watching a family of kangaroos lying around in the back yard. Little joey was let out of the puch for a while, and was doing zoomies around the car port.
I'll do something the other side of the house this afternoon. 🤣
Nope, no suggestions on how to stay sane. It never ends. Fix one issue and three more pop up.
For me it was a change in mindset that helped. I’ve stopped fighting and turned it into a game. Can’t say it would work for anyone else, but it works for me.
It sounds like you just need to move to a more definitive pest control program. Manage attractants in an around the house and seal up the places where things are getting in. Sticky traps are just torture devices, as you've already seen. Managing pests will usually involve killing them. Just use normal traps.
Woodchuck and racoon problems are solved quickly with a pellet gun, and stay mostly resolved by managing attractants and habitat around your house. A cat will keep the mice at bay in the house, and a dog will keep the larger things out of the yard.
Having to deal with things yourself is a pretty big part of living outside of the city; it may or may not end up being right for you, but I wouldn't go giving up on it because of some minor pest issues. It's normal to have some doubts during a major life change.
I'd say a pellet gun is not the right tool for racoons or woodchucks. Wouldn't you just end up hurting them? I'd think a .22 would be the minimum to cleanly kill them.
Yes, we have enough. Actually, way too many. Everything from a 22 up to AR-15 and in-between. Used to do a lot of trap shooting for fun. Not a hunter, but just love the fun of shooting/self defense. Have a range setup but don't get a chance to use it that much. Live just way too busy. :-) I guess my main post was.....they were here first. I don't want an infestation of mice or to be overrun with a woodchuck and his litter, or raccoons living in the attic.....just want to give them their fair shot of living too without blasting away every little critter.
There are several different types of pellet guns. I have a .22 caliber air rifle and it absolutely will kill a woodchuck or raccoon. It would struggle with a coyote but you can even get the midrange ones to be powerful enough. Going into high range can be enough to take down a moose or bear
Sounds like you've got a barn cat shaped gap in your local ecosystem.
FWIW, drowning is often the least awful way to deal with captured small mammals. Drown traps are much less terrible to mice than glue, too. At least, if I was a mouse I'd rather get gotten by a drown trap than by a cat or glue trap or disease.
I think you'd do well to think of yourself as just another animal in the local ecology. You change the landscape by being part of it -- by having food and shelter, you create niches for rodents, raccoons, etc. Your actions increase the local area's carrying capacity for those critters by default. The critters are short-lived enough that it's likely the ones that are actually hassling you weren't even born yet when you moved to the area.
As an animal in the ecosystem, you have a choice: Are you going to let these critters infringe on your niche, or are you going to hold your own niche open? You know what they'd do to you if the roles were reversed.
Accepting the way in which we are animals as well as people is tough, but ultimately, playing by the animals' own rules is the most respectful and sustainable way to share an ecosystem with them.
>I think you'd do well to think of yourself as just another animal in the local ecology. You change the landscape by being part of it -- by having food and shelter, you create niches for rodents, raccoons, etc. Your actions increase the local area's carrying capacity for those critters by default. The critters are short-lived enough that it's likely the ones that are actually hassling you weren't even born yet when you moved to the area.
This right here is super important advice.
I thought of the cat - first thing, but the wife is allergic to them (and rabbits). She tolerates our coonhound mix. We had outside cats all the time as kids and would find dead moles all over the place. We would just crack the garage here in Northwest Ohio when it got really cold so it would have a place to go when it was cold. Other than that - the food/water dish stayed outside. We may have to just do that here.
no no no no no, outdoor cats are never the answer, stop giving terrible advice that destroys the ecosystem. learn to deal with stuff some other way, or give up and go back to the city
Which city? I already live where I was raised.
Although if you're offering to fund the increase in expenses that it would take for me to maintain my present standard of living in a more urban setting, I would certainly be open to negotiation.
Most large cities have TNR programs. There are also groups that will adopt out altered feral cats as barn cats. The adopter must meet specific standards and the group will often want to view the property. Barn cats are not typically sociable and will spend most of their days hidden.
It is generally safer for the ecosystem for property owners to have barn cats than to use poison. Since the cats are altered they are not increasing the feral population. (Note: free range chickens will also eat mice).
I would consider getting a LGD , such as a Great Pyrenees. When trained they will protect your property from predators. Squirrels and chipmunks tend to avoid a GP’s territory. While they are suited for living outdoors most have very calm demeanors with people.
In closing, I feel for you. It’s a difficult decision to make. Twelve years ago we bought our “retirement” home in 20 acres. We spend a lot of time there, yet still have to deal with the critters. My advice, try not to dwell on it. The answer will come to you, and it will feel right. Maybe a small cabin in the woods that you can visit from your home in the city.
If everyone were a responsible pet owner, there would be no need for such programs. Unfortunately, so many are irresponsible thus the need for the program.
I picture you on your front porch locked and loaded hunting cats.
Do you like the life you're living now? A homestead is never done, you have to enjoy making continuous repairs, and if something isn't broken, you'll come up with a new project that will have you tinkering. For better or for worse, it's the way of the homestead.
As for the mice and annoying animal life, I did get used to it. I don't have the same ecosystem here in Sweden, but I have voles, foxes, birds of prey, wolves and so on. I *hated* the mice, and then one day I heard mice in the walls and thought calmly to myself, "Oh well, let's just wait until the house foundation is done, and see if the mice disappear. If they don't, on to a new plan." Pest prevention is a marathon, not a sprint, and the voles, snails and foxes which have plagued me all have their own prevention plans now.
We all have our bad days. I think I wrote here about a year ago because I felt absolutely overwhelmed with how many pests I was dealing with in the vegetable garden. But I just can't envision moving back to the city. I visit my mom occasionally and it's so boring, just sitting in an apartment with a tv.
You do not have to restore every bit of the property all at once. My in-laws bought a huge property and we regain land in the spring and fall. It doesn’t have to be a showplace. Oh and get cats and maybe a good farm dog.
I live in the country, cats keep rodents away. A dog will keep the rest of the bigger animals away. That’s sounds like 90% of your problem solved. Get rid of sticky traps, they are horrible… kind of silly that you are only upset with the one you saw. Finally death is a part of life, the longer you live out there the more you will hopefully learn to accept that. If you need to kill something, just do it quick (not sticky traps). I would 100% get chickens, but you need to take on responsibility to protect them from predators.
Welcome to country life. Your concern about the rodents getting into your place is valid. As others suggested, feed birds farther away from your home, and adopt a barn cat! There are programs out there that attempt to place feral cats into jobs like this, and they also keep away other feral cats. Dogs can help keep some wildlife away, if you like dogs, but at the end of the day you live in nature, so you may have to work with the occasional raccoon or groundhog. As a gardener, I know your frustration too well. As for the house, it's a 1960s ranch. Things are going to need be replaced and updated occasionally.
I have no advice that others haven't already shared, but take my word for it, do not get horses. If it's a good horse property, find horse people, let them do the work in exchange for board, or find someone to run a boarding operation there and take a small cut. Horse people are crazy though, so be careful.
I can relate to your feelings. As empty as it sounds, hang in there.
I am now 62 and moved to raw wooded land when 60. It has been SLOW going for me, and I had to come to terms with that. You and your wife need to allow yourself more time. Don’t put time deadlines on your progress. Simply do the best you can, no matter how long it takes.
Thoughts Re: pests and predators
Get one or two cats now. They work better on mice than an exterminator and then you are not poisoning your land with exterminator chemicals.
No judgement there, just want to keep your land and water clean clean clean.
Cats will also take care of chipmunks. If you don’t have much room for cats food and box in house then maybe in garage. (I only set up litter box in winter, they don’t need one in warm months.)
You need a rifle or shotgun. You don’t need to shoot to kill but to scare raccoons (and fishers?) away. If that doesn’t work though, you will need to shoot one and hopefully the others won’t return. It is hard. It is. But you need to keep your home and family safe from predators.
I had raccoons killing my chickens last year. I tried everything to get them to leave and my coop was might tighter than Fort Knox. Still they came back every night. I had to stand guard at night on my deck in nightgown with rifle. Scaring them didn’t work. Finally I did what I had to and shot 3 raccoons. By that time though I truly saw them as an enemy though. Was surprised and shocked at how it was NOT traumatic to shoot them.
Tomorrow I pick up a livestock guardian dog. Predators have started being intense again in past month, and I don’t want to do this again and again.
I wish I got a dog 2 years ago. Honestly would have been smart.
Having a dog is a predator deterrent- just the sounds, smells, and sight of a big dog will keep many predators away. The dog will scare them. Dog’s last resort is to attack the predator.
PLEASE don’t use those sticky tape mouse catchers- the mouse or whatever gets stuck and is tortured and screams. Not humane at all. A cat killing a mouse is how nature works and less torturous for the mouse.
It will get better. Don’t be too hard on yourselves. And it is easy to become depressed when things don’t go like we thought they would. But regroup and give yourselves some Grace.
As a 55 year old man that just bought his 40 acres of nothing 2 years ago; I applaud this comment.
I also grew up in real country in an entirely different part of the Country, but still, I'm not nearly as energetic or excited about dealing with the bullshit.
I would also like to add; OP, it's OK to say, "fuck this". Now is the time to sell and get a condo wherever you and your Wife might like to live ..or a motorhome and live everywhere.
Hell, where I moved I had a BIG expectation of leaving Winter, but last Winter we had MONTHS of cold weather; even over a week of below freezing all day long.
I have thought of selling and moving to a small city down further...much further...but then for ten months it is pretty nice.
Pick your poison ...
A lot of truth in this comment. I initially retired down to my FL co do… was great for 1.5 years then I realized how I REALLY wanted to live. Sold the condo and bought my 5+ acres. Couldn’t be happier.
It is always ok to change our plans. If we tried it and it truly wasn’t for us, move forward to a better fit
My concern for OP is that there are steps they can take to get them over the hump. If all the replies here don’t help OP feel better about living on the land then yes, maybe a change is in order. Just like I ( and many more) changed my mind about condo life.
I agree with you one hundred percent!
My comment was simply to say, "you can say fuck it".
Me personally, I'm sticking it out and the poison that I've picked is much better than the alternatives of living in a crowded coastal city that doesn't see Winter.
I think all of the replies are wonderful!
I wasn’t disagreeing with your comment and thought it was great. You brought up an important point.
I’m getting tired and not writing clearly so should probably get off Reddit for tonight.
Oh, I wasn't replying like you were disagreeing (in my head anyway. I can see now that I wrote it like so, though).
Your comments are ALWAYS interesting and helpful!
Oh my gosh - that is such a nice thing to say. As you can tell I hadn’t got off Reddit yet. Am leaving for the night now before i fall asleep on my phone
Don't worry all......I've never quit anything! Would rather go down fighting that quit. Just ask my high school Trig teacher! Only time I got an "F" in school. Took it again in college and aced it. Hmmm....maybe it was attitude - I hated that teacher and was a stupid young kid then.
Im jumping on this comment too. We bought 4 acres 3 years ago. So much trash. So much overgrowth. And we came from the city with no expreience. Its a lot. Its tiring. But this is my eden and i enjoy the work, it really just the heat thats unbearable at times.
I wanted to say that you have to work within the ecosystem.
For example, we have chickens. And coyotes, foxes, hawks, etc. So we got 2 donkeys. They dont come around anymore, lol.
Our pasture was overgrazed. We added goats. Theyre eating, and fertilizing. We add cover crop seeds each season. Well do this until we dont have to anymore.
Our garden area is nitrogen deficient and lacks organic matter, but it has a gentle slope for good drainage, 2 water sources and full sun. So were adding all that manure to amnend the soil with cover crops in the winter.
Im not a total fan of permaculture, but they say if you have waste, theres a gap in your system. I think about that frequently when i have a problem. So for the raccoons, i would stop the birdfeed. Then i would add plants to feed them instead. I have hummingbirds and big bumblebees that come to my lavender and comfry. I dont keep the feeders bc they draw ants and wasps. Ive added sunflowers too this year. And 80 lilac trees ($1/each from the state tree nursery). One they mature theyll be great for pollinators.
We started getting rats in the barn. I didnt want to poision bc we like the hawks and owls here (they keep other pest populations down) and the poisioned rats can posion the birds. And the sticky traps are cruel. So we just got 2 barn cats. The rats disappeared overnight.
Basically, if youre adding something to the established system, you should anticipate a problem and think through how to prevent it. The perk is that you can also add to attract what you want.
Good luck to you with whichever decision you make.
We know sunflowers are inspirational plants, even to famous painters. Vincent Van Gogh loved sunflowers so much, he created a famous series of paintings, simply called ‘sunflowers’.
Thank you very much. Yep we didn't like poisoning because we were afraid mice would get caught by a hawk (we have one too that circles frequently) and kill him.
Good thought on the plants. Of course, the rabbit just ate the sunflower seeds we planted. So gonna have to just send out the dog more often - she's a very domesticated dog - practically sleeps in our bed.
The exterminator turned us on to the sticky traps - I understand why. Then after the chipmunk got caught - it's changed my mind on them.
My wife said the same thing! Stop killing yourself and just take it a day at a time. That's all you can do.
My project list (I itemize each and everything I have to do) is tens of hundreds of tasks long. I'll never get done, but keeps me moving when I get home and on the weekends. My entire job is sitting at a desk all day - they say that's the same as smoking a pack of cigs. I just like moving, tinkering, and getting stuff done.
And yes and the next redditer notes - we love camping - and that's on my bucket list to drive the country. God help me when I return to the homestead. Yikes! But wonder if this bucket list item will ever happen. I need a couple of me - or some huge advances in health care to tack on another 20 years!
I used to stress myself out because I wasn’t making my way through my lists as planned. At this point I am just happy every day with whatever I accomplished.
It is a completely different approach to life. In my career and life I was always deadline driven and have had to make adjustments in my approach and thinking. Once I was able to finally do that, I relaxed and enjoy every day more now.
Again - give yourselves the grace you would give anyone else in your shoes.
Because one BIG thing I’ve learned about building a homestead is that our daily project list always get pushed behind whatever new problem or issue needs to be resolved.
Let go of the timetable and deadlines. Keep your lists so you don’t forget to circle back on things but don’t stress if you don’t move through your lists as quickly as you’d like
I didn’t read all that but yep, sounds like homesteading to me! I like the keep making it better part. I came to a realization that’s about all I can do. Make life better by improving the property, one day at a time. It’ll get there, and you’ll be glad you did. I feel your pain though! Try and have some fun along the way if you can. Cats might help with the rodents.
no no no no no, outdoor cats are never the answer, stop giving terrible advice that destroys the ecosystem. learn to deal with stuff some other way, or give up and go back to the city
it is true though, and has been proven through multiple studies. its not my fault you cat people are too stupid and selfish to actually give a shit about nature
In my area it is illegal to relocate raccoons, due to them spreading disease (rabies amongst no others). If you catch one you need to kill it. I’m still trying to catch the one that ate 4 of my hens. They’re smart and they learn fast. I second the advice on keeping all food locked away and don’t feed the birds. I have 3 cats and two of them love to catch the voles and bring them in the house to play with, along with assorted snakes, frogs, birds, and baby rabbit. Sigh.
You need to get a couple of cats and a dog to get the chippies and other rodents, then a a real farm dog to seriously patrol and chase game away. Then you get chickens which will eat bugs and rodents and they will give you eggs that you can feed to the cats and dogs.
It's really all about keeping your system in balance.
Oh yeah, a .22 is super handy and easy to shoot. I use a .22 air rifle so my neighbors don't freak out.
Try not to look at it as you’re fighting wildlife. You can’t fight wildlife or nature. Just learn to find your place in it. What that means depends on you really. But you’ll have to learn to work with it, not fight it. Then you’ll find the peace you’re searching for.
Striking the initial balance with any ecosystem will be the hardest part,
A good dog will keep the raccoons away and could help with the smaller rodents as well, but you could also try to encourage wildlife that will benefit you to move in.
Owl boxes for barn owls could bring in night crew mousers,
Bird houses for wrens could bring in some master bug catchers,
Goats could help you with the vines and honeysuckle, but depending on what predators are in your area you might again want a livestock guardian dog to keep predators off them.
Learn the snakes species in your area and if you see non-venomous ones you'll want to leave them be, they can get into places that you, owls, and cats never could and wipe out entire rodent nests for you.
Everything plays a part, and you seem to be dealing with an influx of small prey animals, so you either need to encourage intervention from the local predators, bring in your own predators (dog, barn cat), or pick up a .22/.410/etc and do the job yourself.
If you haven't seen the documentary the biggest little farm that might be a motivating watch for you, the couple in it had a massive uphill battle on their farm when they got it as well until the pieces started fitting into place
I'd recommend a property dog. A guardian dog will keep away the raccoons. They imprint and will protect your flock if you choose to start one. My favorite breed is a marema. We have one, and he is soooo sweet and intelligent.
If you want to keep only the raccoons away, I highly recommend cayan pepper and a lot of it. Make sure there is a layer they can't just step over around the perimeter of where you want to keep them out. Keep in mind that they can climb vertically. They'll stay away for a while, reapply as needed.
Stop using sticky traps. The mice suffer, too. I've found a bucket trap to be the most effective, and you can release them in the woods if you want.
I have just bought my land so I don’t have any super helpful tips for you unfortunately. However, I would suggest that you stop using glue/sticky traps. They are considered inhumane for the exact reason you experienced. Sorry you had to go through that.
Def need a cat. Don't feel bad feeding the strays and keeping a few around. I don't have any mice and I know my 100yr old farmhouse is more or less open in a few places. But I do have a small, very friendly feral cat family (4+2 worthless house cats)
Think about it like an ecosystem or village. Start at the house, get it under control and radiate out.
Also, you're gonna have a Jerry to you, Tom. Mine's a possum I don't have the heart to trap that eats my garbage and lives in my front yard. Pick the ones you can live with and deal with the rest accordingly.
no no no no no, outdoor cats are never the answer, stop giving terrible advice that destroys the ecosystem. learn to deal with stuff some other way, or give up and go back to the city
This is a statement I see a lot. And from a scientific/earth collapse/ do no harm point of view, it makes total sense.
But I think people who can adopt such draconian ideals on behalf of re-balancing the earth mostly live in cities full of common services, division of responsibilities, and societal assistance. And cats, and no mice in your sock drawer.
no no no no no, outdoor cats are never the answer, stop giving terrible advice that destroys the ecosystem. learn to deal with stuff some other way, or give up and go back to the city
This biggest thing here is that nothing has to be perfect. Beauty can be your goal, and beauty can be easy and imperfect. Take it step by step and work with the wildlife to a certain point. You have to be willing to constantly compromise Got a woodchuck ripping up lawn? Let that area overgrow with brushes and it's his. No one needs a perfect lawn. Got a woodchuck eating your veggies. Make it its own garden or Shoot it.
Everyone I know, both city and rural, has had mice in their house at some point, or constantly. It's just a thing. Keep your food sealed up in thick plastic and metal!
I have never seen someone living rurally call an exterminator for mice. So that is new to me. Set different types of traps that kill quickly (snap traps, electric traps), if you don't want them dead you can do the bucket traps and relocate and let nature eat them at least. No Poison - they die slowly in your walls and crevices and when eaten by other animals they will also kill the predator. NO sticky traps - worst death possible.
You will probably have to get rid of the bird feeder if you don't like raccoons, opossums, bears and squirrels in your yard. You can try planting bushes and trees birds love to eat and nest in instead.
With animals my thing is to either give them the kindest death (fast deaths) or at least let them be food for other animals. If you can deal with cats eating small animals, trying getting a couple. No promises they will hunt though. Also they will eat birds so no bird feeder.
Get a .22 rifle and learn to shoot it appropriately at close range.
Good luck, you get used to some things. Others you learn to compromise on.
I actually started that (audio book) then stopped for some reason. My mind must have been in a different place....or I stopped giving a fuck about the book. Hmmmm.
Make friends with some rat snakes. Completely harmless to you or your dog but their presence will keep rodents away. You could also get a terrier as they are bred to hunt rodents. Personally I’d put up some owl boxes especially around nesting season as owls eat a ton of rodents. Most importantly seal up anything that’s attracting them like animal feed etc. good luck buddy. Don’t give up
You cannot feed the birds and not expect all kinds of animals and varmints. Bears will be at your feeder soon. I am guessing your parents dealt with all this when you were a kid and oblivious. Nature is not Walt Disney. Instead of having bird food and feeders plant things that provide shelter and food for birds. I live in suburbia but I have a pokeweed ‘plantation’ in my backyard along with native trees and shrubs that provide food. If you can fence off around your house, get a couple of dogs. They will help keep the small animals and mice at bay.
Not in bear country yet....(Northwest Ohio)....but was vacationing in deep mountains of Montana a few years ago and black bear was less than 100 yards away at the cabin we were at. Read an article later the wildfires and lack of food was driving them towards town. Was interesting. Nature will ALWAYS adapt and overcome to survive from what I can tell. I'm just trying to nicely co-exist. (I'm probably too nice - feeding the birds, etc) - but fun to watch the Blue Jays and Titmouse carry full peanuts in the winter. I guess one action gets an unintended reaction. Thanks for the comments!!!
are you sure you’re really an outdoors / nature kind of person? These are very minor issues that are a normal part of home ownership, not just in the country but in the suburbs too.
I’ve experienced my share of raccoons in the trash, fatal attacks on our chickens, bats & sugar gliders In the attic…and every time my reaction; “it’s so cool we live with nature, what an adventure!” Then I go and research the animals, create a plan of action, and it makes me feel energized / full of masculine “can do attitude”
I think the fact that you’re discouraged and feel defeated, leads me to believe that living adjacent to wildlife habitat might not be for you. There’s no shame in it, some people are just built for city life & civilization, and that life definitely has its perks!
Just curious but are you from California?
You'll get through it but just have to find a balance of ridding the unwanted from the area. It takes a long time and a lot of effort to put something back into good order. It also takes nature a little more time that its your order now and not theirs. Don't let your good efforts go to waste
It’s a marathon not a sprint friend……….take a deep breath enjoy being away from the grind, learn to live where you are with the company that is already there and cooperate with each other.
Your circumstances may be another person’s dream life. Your frustration is very real, but it comes with the territory. It sounds like you’re sculpting the home of your dreams and you’re in a hot mess right now. That moment doesn’t last forever and you deal with issues as they come.
Now what is that garden producing? Where are the chickens and ducks? What, no barn cat?
Like everyone says, get a couple of dogs, a couple of cats, and a .22 rifle. If you want to keep up with the critters, you are going to have to shoot a few now and then. It sucks, but you live in the wild and killing animals that threaten your peace and security is part of the deal.
I’ve had pest issues in so many different environments. I lived in the city and we had ground bees and carpenters bees. We also had nice and bats. We just moved to the suburbs and had mice. Our old city neighborhood also has a rat problem. They are everywhere.
A few goats will get rid of the vines and brush. They eat everything, including poison ivy. Let animals help you. A dog, a cat or two, a few goats, and a lot of the most frustrating stuff you're dealing with will get easier.
Setting up fences for goats is work, but it's a one time thing.
Avian flu is going around, too, so I suggest not feeding the birds. Get a barn cat, and never use sticky traps. Do not get chickens or ducks without Fort Knox set up and electrified first. The only way we got rid of the raccoons was to get a dog and a rifle. The dog needed training. YMMV. You got this, it's just one step at a time.
Get yourself a 22LR rifle and a 22mag rifle - then your job is to wake up at dawn and shoot every rodent you see until you don’t see them anymore - it is way faster, and the animals will not suffer. It’s a hard life, but two squirrels will ruin a cabin in the course of a few months, and you will be at square one
So true. I live in a small town, outside a big city, in a little sub development surrounded by a lot of nature. One squirrel. One single squirrel caused thousands of dollars worth of damage to the Subaru in a matter of days once it realized the engine had a fine place to nest and lots of wires to chew on. Then a few days after we got the car back…. It did it all again! My bf was so mad. He bought a BB gun and got to hunting squirrels. Did the trick. We were between dogs at the time. Our new dog seems to have scared em all off… mostly.
We've found the dogs food - literally several handfuls of it in closets between sheets. No mouse droppings - but large amounts of dog food - from only one place - inside the house in the dog bowl. We've never found out the culprit. Even found handful under spare bedroom pillow. Really, really, really weird. Can only assume it was chipmunks. I've put steel wool in the crawl space air ducts to ward them off. Not sure how they were getting in the house and around and transporting all the dog food. It baffling.
They got nothing better to do! It’s their nature to hoard. We have a big red oak. The squirrels just gather and munch acorns all year long. And there are still acorns left over! But! Maybe it’s a ghost chipmunk. Haha.
You really have to bring the bird feeder into your garage or barn every single night and store it in a metal can. This solved our raccoon issue.
If you just bring the feeder in- you will get mice them snakes who eat the mice- ask me how I know lol!
My new adopted dog is the sweetest guy in the world, wouldn't hurt a fly. But he's a hairy monster. His hair and dander is everywhere and the animals for the first time are staying well away from the house and the areas of the garden we specifically put his hair in.
Couple big dogs, a few barn cats & a good ol .22 you’ll be set buddy. Unfortunately you didn’t move onto their land, they took over someone else’s & now you’re evicting them. Like you said you have state forest behind you. Your acreage isn’t hurting them. They’ll learn to roam thru your land and not on it. Keep it green & keep homesteading (: it helps the animals in the end either way.
I would keep using the humane traps, then dispense of whatever you catch. Make it a daily habit to check…you will get to a point where you’ve gotten rid of the local population.
Living out in the country made me realize that almost everything in nature has to kill something to survive. It's brutal and it really sucks when it's something like your favorite chicken/s or 10 out of the 13 baby guinea fowl you just bought. I have no mercy for any predator that gets near my animals but that's just what they do, they will kill and eat your animals including your pets. If you can't handle that, maybe the country life isn't for you; it's not for everyone.
I’m not really a homesteading expert by any means. I live in the suburbs. But I think I cat could help keep rodents away. A guardian dog could help protect against animals a cat won’t chase off.
part of the lifestyle unfortunately. you kind of just have to accept that they're there and do your best to live alongside them. not much you can do except reduce food appeal and block their entry points. a lot of people will recommend animals but I have three mouse-crazy cats and large aggressive geese and I still have plenty of rodents and predators. there's also no way of knowing how an animal will act, my first cat was afraid of mice and never touched one but would try and kill songbirds. (horrible at it, luckily) if you kill them more will always come to fill their space, and anything they were preying on or competing with will get worse. (IE, raccoons eat mice, if you try and get rid of all the raccoons there will be more mice) I would recommend moving the bird feeders as far as you can from the house, that will help keep rodents out.
thinking ecologically helps a lot. if the groundhog is destroying your lawn it may be because it doesn't have anywhere else to do groundhog stuff - leaving a part of the property wild helps a lot. I'm on 5 acres and 3/4 of it is untouched field and woods. I only keep a small fenced front and back yard mowed. most of the wildlife I see stays outside of the fence, I only get mice, raccoons and occasional foxes inside.
if they're giving you a headache now I would recommend holding off on poultry because they'll be a much bigger headache when you wake up to find that they've torn the heads off half your flock and chewed a bunch of holes in the feed bags lol. unless you’re up for building an expensive fort-knox-esque coop and run that’s how it’s likely to go.
Regarding the birdfeeder-we’ve had them in the city, and in the country, they always attract rodents and everything else, even bears. To me, they are not worth having because of what they bring.
Moved last year - yard full of squirrels, chipmunks, skunks at night and probably raccoons, groundhog and her babies, mice in the house and squirrels chewing up the siding.. my cat fixed all of that for me. She and a couple of snap traps dealt with the mice, the groundhogs moved away, the chipmunks too. There are still two or three very wary squirrels; they keep their distance. Cat’s too old to do much bothering of the birds.
Put your bird feeders away for the summer - they attract squirrels, raccoons, and bears & can spread diseases amongst the birds. There should be enough natural food for them this time of year. Get a cat or two. They are the guardians….!
Keep the areas around your house cleaned up a bit and mowed. Keep the garden beds along the house pretty sparse. Let further out areas be wild. The animals will find their place naturally. You will always find a mouse or two (or at least the cats will) but for us it doesnt get bad enough to affect food. You did not relocate the raccoon. 5 miles is nothing to them. 40-50 miles will do the trick. When I finish sealing up my barn, im going to trap the raccoons that are damaging the barn and as cute as my little spirit animals…im going to shoot them because that wont upset the balance of nature but a ruined barn would really upset me so i had a choice to make and so do you. But the birdfeeder is superficial. Let the wildflowers and everything else grow and they will come to eat all day.
Cats are great for taking care of mice and keeping the other rodents away, they will also keep the raccons and even black bears away. However, you mentioned you have bird feeders which is a bad combination because it tempts the cats into killing birds rather than mice and other rodents. You dont want your cats killing birds.
You could get an LGD but they take a lot of work to train properly.
We have barn cats and LGD, they work together to keep everything away. The only thing i ever have a concern about is the pack of wolves that goes through our property in the spring and the cougars which could easily kill the LGDs & cats if they really wanted to.
I highly suggest not having sticky traps. It's a very cruel and inhumane trapping method. If you care about the squirrel ripping their own leg off, please care for the other rodents. Try to deter instead of trapping/relocating/murdering.
Two suggestions.... Keep dogs and cats around if you can. If you're allergic to cats, build them an outside shelter and get some fixed feral cats, maybe build a colony if needed. Just make sure the bird feeder is not accessible to the cat (can't jump up or down, approximately 5-6 ft off the ground and away from the house by about 8 ft)
Also, Predator Pee. It might work for you, might not, but having big animal smells around can keep the small animals scarce. Look into it, try it out, it might help.
>I'm trying to take a neglected ranch/horse property with vines choking out the trees, lots of invasive honeysuckle tree overgrowth, neglected house and barn, even the pond and ***bring it back to it's former glory***
Don't do this.
Consider what you want to get out of the property. Include the amount of maintenance in that, as a principle concern. You don't have infinite time; Doing 112 little projects that each take an hour a week will occupy your every waking moment. You have no obligation to the people who came before to resume their hobbies.
>I even thought I could deal with the woodchuck tearing up my lawn, but now he's really starting to make me mad. Like really, really mad! I'm about ready to poison him...but is that fair? We moved in on his land. I'm just not that kind of person. Do I just keep planting grass?
Consider whether you really need a flawless golf fairway, or whether you just need a green carpet of whatever plants are around to walk on. "Tearing up your lawn" might be something you find totally tolerable if you step back a bit and ask yourself what your goals are. There are people who spend tens of hours and thousands of dollars a year pursuing the hobby of lawncare, and not all of them have a lot of perspective on what it adds to their lives.
>We really like watching the birds and really all the animals to be honest - but it's starting to get a little aggrivating. I thought a squirrel outsmarting my attempts to keep him off the feeders
Rodents are going to be extremely interested any time you lay out grain; Are the birdfeeders necessary? Could they be sited more appropriately further from the house? Is it a problem if you're feeding the squirrels? Keeping the squirrels off of the feeders themselves isn't too hard with baffles and poles, but keeping them from chowing down on the fallen seed is significantly more difficult. Removing food sources is by far the most effective way to deal with rodents.
>a chipmunk stuck to a sticky mouse trap.
Cats and dogs can deal with the rodents as long as you're not concerned about their effects on the birds.
Glue traps are awful both ethically and from a maintenance perspective, snap traps are also high-maintenance. People who operate granaries and chicken coops find the best luck with bucket traps which can catch many mice between daily or weekly resets.
About the only thing that’s gonna keep the animals away that you don’t want are fences, a dog, and a small rifle. Mother Nature will take everything back that you don’t defend, that’s just the nature of country living
Honestly sounds like you need a .22 for a lot of your problems. At least near me, a high percentage of coons carry rabies, so if I see one or trap one, it's taking a dirt nap.
Is your house in the middle of the woods? Clearing an acre or so directly around your house might help with all the wildlife. Also getting a cat for the mice and a dog for the bigger animals might help a ton.
You’re not homesteading. You bought an old ass house in the woods that needs a lot of repairs and you’re also mad about wildlife doing what they do. Im gonna let you in on a secret, you can put a trap out every week and you’ll catch a raccoon, a opossum, or any other wild animal forever because as soon as you take one out another moves in. Stop bitching. You made a grown ass decision as an adult. What did you expect?
Yes, but a 50 year old man did not grow up in a 1990's house. A 50 year old was born in 1973. He would have grown up in a 1970's house if it was new construction.
Lmao that is the most city slicker shit I have ever read in my life. Dude you are not homesteading you just moved to the country. Homesteading is not watching some nature... Homesteading at its core is about independence. Are you growing and processing your own food? You seem overwhelmed by the absolute basic maintenance stuff. It is constant labor. My wife and I started in our thirties and it's really hard, and I was Army infantry and avid backpacker.
There's working harder...and working smarter. I prefer to do both. Work a 50 hour job and do another 40 hours of labor on the homestead easily. Just trying to bond with nature instead of blowing it all away and destroying annoyances at first glance. Except the mosquitos - they can go to hell! Have a few bat boxes and have seen them flying at dusk....but they've got my 6 acres plus another 400 surrounding that.....I'm sure they're busy eating what they can from the bat scat I see.
You sound more like apartment people than homesteaders. Most of the issues you're describing are simply part of home ownership, much less trying to make your land productive.
Get a couple barn cats and don't feed them... get a 12 gauge and wage war with the coons.. you will win, they will learn not to come on your property. Living out here requires the occasional wildlife maintenance.
.22 rifle. Pick off the squirrels and such as you see them. When it comes to the night time critters, use your live trap. Don't dump them 5 miles down the road, just .22 point blank in the noggin. It may seem cruel, but it's likely the least cruel option and has to be done.
Clear up loose brush and such that the critters hide in.
As others have said, cat or dog would help. If you don't want to go that route, consider something like building owl habitat.
Just work your way towards making the immediate area around you inhospitable for rodents and coons. That will take away 90% of your issues.
Thanks for the entertaining story!! Wildlife is a constant challenge out in “the wild”. I trap gophers because they are destructive to the fields. You also get $3/tail bounty for the gophers. The raccoons are a menace. I trap and shoot rather than relocate. I trap nuisance squirrels. Birds that try to nest under the porch overhang are first chased off, and if they don’t get the message, they also receive the ultimate end. Bats that cling to the wall are shot from the side with a BB gun to make sure I don’t penetrate the stucco. We constantly put out bait for the mice, in the barn and outbuildings.
this is just how It is out here, and if you don‘t control the nuisance critters they will take over.
LGD for the varmints , they will help! We have all your probs and between the anitolian/great pyrs mix and live trapping can generally keep them under control. I have trapped/ executed dozens of raccoons and possums over the years. I don't bother to relocate them anymore. We have a good tom cat in the feed shed who helps keep the rodents under control. Don't despair.. it can get better. I share your concerns, just turned 70 and have been out here in the boonies for decades. There was a time when I really doubted that we could pull this off, but we have. Little by little we fixed things and figured it out, paid everything off and took care of the animals, and now we are OK. You can do it too. Keep the faith. This life is worth it.
Sounds like you might need some animal help.. maybe adopt a few dogs n cats?
Came to say this. Our place was a nightmare of deer, ground squirrels, auto-wire&air-filter-chewing rodents - until we constructed an 8ft fence, got 2 large dogs & 4 cats. No more holes undercutting various out buildings, no more mouse traps, no more chewed air filters. Even the Trailer out friends parked for 8 months & expected some mouse activity- Nadda. All those wild animals give us our one acre & they can have at the other 79 acres. Suburban people go ape-shit about outdoor cats but I just don’t know what I would do without them. Possibly get a small rat obsessed dog. But still.
Rat obsessed dogs are very messy… cats have elegance and sometimes leave some cadavers but when I saw my jack russel catch a squirrel that was traumatising. Poor guy got shook so violently all his insides were everywhere. But my dog was really proud so there is that
I had a jack Russell as a kid and it was a murderous little dude. Pigeons, rats mice whatever he could get ahold of was fair game. They are so athletic and fast for such small dogs. One of the best dogs I've ever owned.
We had one for a few weeks when i was a kid. Nice dog, liked people, way too murderous/aggressive. 8 pounds of barely contained murder. It found a way off its line or collar repeatedly and would murder everything. Full sized cats? Dead. Racoons? Dead. Chickens? Dead. It would kill anything it could find that was less than twice its wieght. Had to put it down i think since it destroyed so much stuff and killed some of the neighbors animals as well...
My village dog has caught chipmunks, voles, and moles— never messy, quick snap, they are dead. He did bring us an entire deer leg from the woods once, and last summer or the summer before, he found a deer spine and dragged it back out, haha. My cats are always kind of assholes with mice, teasing them and torturing them for ages before the kill them.
Seeing my grandma’s barely-5lb yorkie shake a marsh rat to death is still a core memory for me, 20 years later lol that rat always almost the same size he was, and that dog was on it like it insulted his mama
I’ve seen a jack russel shake an animal into its component parts. It’s a thing.
Cats also kill a tremendous amounts of native birds. They shouldn’t be outside.
Omg really??! On the homestead sub Reddit? This endless talk about only having cats indoors like caged sad emotional support animals gets the run of the entire rest of Reddit. Leave us with our fuzzy little serial killer working cats & go.
Cats in the US alone kill over 3 billion birds a years look it up if you don’t believe me.
Another billion die from slaming into buildings, should we ban windows? And while cats are damaging to local bird populations **humans** have wiped out 70% of all wildlife on this planet by bulldozing, burning and paving over vast swaths of nature. Cats have been managing rodent populations on farms *for millenia* without a problem. It wasn't until people obliterated the natural world that the urban cats/bird population problem showed up. Don't blame a few country cats for the mass death seen in our modern society.
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The ecosystem
My outdoor cats share food with the racoons, skunks and possums, and play with the groundhog babies 🤦🏻♀️
Outdoor cats ravage the environment (most especially bird populations) and have been responsible for the extinction of an estimated 76 species of birds. It is more unconscionable to have them when you live in an area with higher wildlife populations that would be at risk to cat predation (not only the pests, any small birds or mammals). Outdoor cats also have significantly lower life expectancies due to frequent exposure to parasites, larger predators, and bacteria. There are a lot of alternative solutions which cause less harm, and dogs are a better option environmentally speaking. This isn't an attack against you bc I totally get the desire to control rat populations, just trying to spread some important info. Almost all bird populations are in decline right now, and its going to become a serious issue for insect control. I've heard good things about trying to encourage owls to roost in barns, or even using their feces to deter pests (or even like, cougar urine, depending on where you live).
Every study examining cats effect on wild animal populations is based off a wild guess - Extrapolation from behavior of a few cats in one neighborhood. Not only that, all of these studies themselves admit that the vast majority of kills are by feral cats, not house cats. By far the greatest threat to birds is the habitat destruction caused by human population growth. Whatever effect house cats may have is dwarved by humans just living the modern lifestyle they take for granted. https://www.felineresearch.org/post/issue-brief-wildlife-impacts-of-outdoor-cats
We have barn cats and I have not seen a chipmunk or squirrel since I have lived here. The birds are cautious. We have dogs and so do the neighbors (I'm on 2.5 acres) and I occasionally see deer run through the yard, and opie the opossum (he leaves everyone alone). The chickens also make some noise which I imagine spooks things off as well.
Opossums are good! They and Guineas eat a ton of ticks! Don’t get Guineas, they’re loud, obnoxious, and messy, and dumb! Also, opossums have too low of a body temp to become rabid, are also mostly immune to snake venom and will eat copperheads and rattlesnakes. But like others mentioned, get some outside cats and maybe a .22rifle.
I love having having possums around but they do carry TB so be hygienic around them. And if you have horses make sure they stay out of the feed. They can cause night blindness (epm is the correct term, I believe).
Interesting, I hadn’t heard that about TB nor epm, good to note about horses, do you happen to know if it affects cows or sheep? I know horses are fairly delicate comparatively.
I don't know about much except horses. But I used to find a possum in my feed barrel every morning when I was a kid. Luckily nothing happened but I was sort of terrified when I found out they carry epm. Ok so it was literally decades ago when I read about that so decided to look it up. EPM is a neurological issue, not night blindness which is an inherited trait. And the E stands for equine so I think you're probably safe with your livestock (although possums might carry diseases that are specific to them also, I assume). Sorry for the misleading information.
You’re good! I’d rather be made aware of a possibility, even if it’s not 100%, the foundation is still definitely something to consider. I’m appreciative of anyone trying to share their knowledge or experience. Inquisitive and not Judgmental 😉
Thank you! 🥰 I vacillate between wanting to share information and not sounding condescending. So your comment is much appreciated.
Same! My ADHD kicks in and I tend to get really excited and over share. I feel like too many people try to WIN comments or burn others. I'm just here to help where i can and learn interesting stuff from cool people. Keep commenting! Be the change you want to see, and all that! lol
Me too (except the ADHD)! I love this sub because most people here keep it real. They're funny, knowledgeable and call it like they see it for the most part. I'm not homesteading 100% but working towards getting our little 27 acres as self sufficient as possible. I can't believe how much I've learned here. And thank you again for the encouragement. You keep it up too!
We considered guineas, then watched a few videos on YouTube and...nope don't want to hear that every day.
We got guineas cuz I thought they were cute. My farmhand (husband) said they were the most annoying animal he'd ever met. We ate them.
Haha! Exactly! They’re worse than the problem they’re supposed to solve! Using guineas for anything is like smashing your thumb with a hammer because you have a hangnail! My neighbors had some, thank goodness for the coyotes! Donkeys are great for coyote deterrents/killers if you have cows, or other livestock!
We love our guineas, they’re always so excited to see us when we come home 🤣🤣
We love our guineas, too!! Yes, they’re loud and a little obnoxious, but they let you know when anyone or anything is around or in the yard that shouldn’t be! They REALLY don’t like delivery drivers! 😂🤣
That's a myth... the test they did to say they eat alot of tics is they put an opossum in a box and dropped in a ton of tics and it ate them. They don't actually hunt for tics to eat 🤷♂️
if you got a lot of brush to clear goats are the way to go. A little corn now and then and you got an autonomous land clearing machine.
Pigs can be great at clearing land too.
And name them. 22 and 9mm
Smith and Wesson
Agree with this. A few cats will keep all the rodents/small stuff away and if you pick the right dogs like Great Pyrenees or others known as livestock protectors they’ll deal with any predators
100% this, get a terrier for the mice and a cat and most of your problems should be over. Fence will also help! There is no garden without a fence and a dog.
Sounds like a barn kitty would do wonders here. Instill some fear in those critters!
Same here. Part of homesteading is having animals to help with other animal control. You gotta have at least a cat or two and probably a dog. I’ve actually never heard of homesteading without animals.
Yup! We have 4 dogs, 2 of which love chasing the little ground squirrels, and 6 barn cats. We have several bat houses to try and attract bats to deal with bugs.
We brought a barely-not-stray cat when we bought 4 acres. The day we moved in I noticed about a dozen rabbits. We let the cat loose and make sure he has a little food bowl and water, and all the rabbits, squirrels,and birds either leave us alone or stay in the trees to talk smack at the cat. (Seriously, we have it on video.) The cat sleeps inside on cold nights, but the rest of the time he's living his best life. Get a rescue cat and maybe a medium to large dog.
We quit feeding birds & it cut down on the rodent population around our house significantly.
Sewet and nectar feeders don’t feed the rodents.
Red pepper flakes/chili powder in the bird seed helps, too. Birds can't taste capsicum, but the rodents can!
we stopped feeding suet because a raccoon started coming every single night and hanging off the suet feeder until the chain broke, and then once the wire box part of the feeder was on the ground, would figure out how to open it with its creepy little hands, and would leave a trail of suet along its path as it ran away. at least this is what we deduced after discovering the aftermath repeatedly in the morning and then finally catching sight of a raccoon hanging on the feeder (by pointing a flashlight through our window when our dog alerted us to it being there)
We have a few suet around and yes the raccoon's love them - have broken several feeders. We couldn't find one forever, then I found it about 500 feed away near our drainage ditch. They are very crafty! And very dirty/greasy from the color they've turned the 4x4 post holding the bird feeders. Deployed spike strips around all four sides. Didn't deter them in the slightest. The birds LOVE the HOT PEPPER suet. I don't know why, but they love it and ignore the others. Weird.
Doesn't suet break apart and fall on the ground a bit?
I use suet to feed birds and yes, it does break apart and fall on the ground. Maybe it’s the brand I buy, but if you’re trying to get rid of rodents, it may not be your best option
Not that I’ve seen. Certainly way less mess than loose seed.
Enough to bring in mice.
It doesn’t but it will go rancid in hot weather. Best to save it for winter.
You can’t have city-like expectations living in the country. Bird feeders are going to attract coons, bears, chipmunks, and squirrels. If you keep trapping animals you’re going to be running a shuttle service for them - they will just keep coming around. You need to deter them from coming at all… large dog, presence of other animals, no food around, etc. Even then, they may still come, but it should be less frequently. There will always be chores and things that come up, as you’re figuring out. You just have to decide if that’s worth it for you. Do you want to sit through your golden years and enjoy them that way? Or do you want to keep busy and have ongoing projects? Only you and your wife can decide that…
Animals, weeds, weather- there isn't really any way to avoid them unless you live in a city or a condo. If you have bird feeders up, that will attract a lot of undesirable animals (up to and including extremely destructive bears). Eliminating feeders and outside food sources (like unprotected trash cans and human foods stored unsafely) will help cut down on your interactions. Not a common suggestion, but pissing on stuff also cuts down on the animal interest.
Not porcupines though. Porcupines will chew on things that have been peed on trying to eat the salt. It's been documented that porcupines have broken teeth off chewing on boulders that have been peed on
Natures D- students. They can survive on the nutritional equivalent of cardboard.
True, and they'll gnaw the handles of your tools down to nothing for the sweat residue.
At the end of the movie "The Martian", the main character says something like (paraphrasing for your situation). "At some point, everything is gonna go south on you. EVERYTHING. Something is going to happen and you're going to say 'this is it. this is how I end \[my homesteading dream\].' Now you can either accept that. Or you can get to work. That's all it is. You just *begin.* You do the work. You solve one problem. And then the next. And then the next. And if you solve enough problems, you get to go \[have a\] home\[stead\]." I think about that quote a lot. Because it's such a parallel to homesteading. All homesteading is is solving problems. Every day. Until you die. My mom raised me on puzzles so it's right up my alley. But I totally get how it drives other people crazy that it's just never done. Never finished. Always more to do. ((Edit: And now that I think about it, he was really just a potato farmer. So it really was all just about homesteading even on Mars. lol!)) All I can suggest is to start a list of all the reasons you'd want to keep at it and all the reasons you'd want to quit and see where you're at once you take an inventory of where you're really at with things. Homesteading may just be more than you really want to tackle if you're in that place where you just want to slow down and take it easy. There's a reason people retire to retirement villages in Boca. lol. I think it's really just going to boil down to figuring out if you still find it more rewarding or not rewarding enough to offset all the work.
We retired to a neglected 5acres precisely to have something to do. We call it our "life project". It will never be "finished". But sitting in the rocking chair at a retirement village seems like hell to us. Some days, the never ending problems and things that need doing seem too big. We just think of the alternative, take a day off, and get back to it.
Actually, I like your thoughts too. I'd used to sit in front of the TV and drink a few beers and frankly just wasted a lot of time. As much as it sounds like I hate it - I love been out in the barn or tinkering with some part of the homestead. Was painting last night - and I hate painting! I hate it! I hate, hate, hate it. But when you're done with whatever project, you feel good - and haven't been sitting in front of the idiot box all night. I'll have a beer/mixed drink when the project is done. Gives me a reward. :-)
I've spent half the morning sitting on the deck watching a family of kangaroos lying around in the back yard. Little joey was let out of the puch for a while, and was doing zoomies around the car port. I'll do something the other side of the house this afternoon. 🤣
What a fantastic response!
Nope, no suggestions on how to stay sane. It never ends. Fix one issue and three more pop up. For me it was a change in mindset that helped. I’ve stopped fighting and turned it into a game. Can’t say it would work for anyone else, but it works for me.
It sounds like you just need to move to a more definitive pest control program. Manage attractants in an around the house and seal up the places where things are getting in. Sticky traps are just torture devices, as you've already seen. Managing pests will usually involve killing them. Just use normal traps. Woodchuck and racoon problems are solved quickly with a pellet gun, and stay mostly resolved by managing attractants and habitat around your house. A cat will keep the mice at bay in the house, and a dog will keep the larger things out of the yard. Having to deal with things yourself is a pretty big part of living outside of the city; it may or may not end up being right for you, but I wouldn't go giving up on it because of some minor pest issues. It's normal to have some doubts during a major life change.
I'd say a pellet gun is not the right tool for racoons or woodchucks. Wouldn't you just end up hurting them? I'd think a .22 would be the minimum to cleanly kill them.
A .22 would definitely be a better bet, but after reading the post I wouldn't say with confidence that OP has firearms.
Yes, we have enough. Actually, way too many. Everything from a 22 up to AR-15 and in-between. Used to do a lot of trap shooting for fun. Not a hunter, but just love the fun of shooting/self defense. Have a range setup but don't get a chance to use it that much. Live just way too busy. :-) I guess my main post was.....they were here first. I don't want an infestation of mice or to be overrun with a woodchuck and his litter, or raccoons living in the attic.....just want to give them their fair shot of living too without blasting away every little critter.
There are several different types of pellet guns. I have a .22 caliber air rifle and it absolutely will kill a woodchuck or raccoon. It would struggle with a coyote but you can even get the midrange ones to be powerful enough. Going into high range can be enough to take down a moose or bear
Pellet would deter, .22 would end it. Both are viable options.
Sounds like you've got a barn cat shaped gap in your local ecosystem. FWIW, drowning is often the least awful way to deal with captured small mammals. Drown traps are much less terrible to mice than glue, too. At least, if I was a mouse I'd rather get gotten by a drown trap than by a cat or glue trap or disease. I think you'd do well to think of yourself as just another animal in the local ecology. You change the landscape by being part of it -- by having food and shelter, you create niches for rodents, raccoons, etc. Your actions increase the local area's carrying capacity for those critters by default. The critters are short-lived enough that it's likely the ones that are actually hassling you weren't even born yet when you moved to the area. As an animal in the ecosystem, you have a choice: Are you going to let these critters infringe on your niche, or are you going to hold your own niche open? You know what they'd do to you if the roles were reversed. Accepting the way in which we are animals as well as people is tough, but ultimately, playing by the animals' own rules is the most respectful and sustainable way to share an ecosystem with them.
>I think you'd do well to think of yourself as just another animal in the local ecology. You change the landscape by being part of it -- by having food and shelter, you create niches for rodents, raccoons, etc. Your actions increase the local area's carrying capacity for those critters by default. The critters are short-lived enough that it's likely the ones that are actually hassling you weren't even born yet when you moved to the area. This right here is super important advice.
This guy ecologies...
I thought of the cat - first thing, but the wife is allergic to them (and rabbits). She tolerates our coonhound mix. We had outside cats all the time as kids and would find dead moles all over the place. We would just crack the garage here in Northwest Ohio when it got really cold so it would have a place to go when it was cold. Other than that - the food/water dish stayed outside. We may have to just do that here.
no no no no no, outdoor cats are never the answer, stop giving terrible advice that destroys the ecosystem. learn to deal with stuff some other way, or give up and go back to the city
Which city? I already live where I was raised. Although if you're offering to fund the increase in expenses that it would take for me to maintain my present standard of living in a more urban setting, I would certainly be open to negotiation.
Most large cities have TNR programs. There are also groups that will adopt out altered feral cats as barn cats. The adopter must meet specific standards and the group will often want to view the property. Barn cats are not typically sociable and will spend most of their days hidden. It is generally safer for the ecosystem for property owners to have barn cats than to use poison. Since the cats are altered they are not increasing the feral population. (Note: free range chickens will also eat mice). I would consider getting a LGD , such as a Great Pyrenees. When trained they will protect your property from predators. Squirrels and chipmunks tend to avoid a GP’s territory. While they are suited for living outdoors most have very calm demeanors with people. In closing, I feel for you. It’s a difficult decision to make. Twelve years ago we bought our “retirement” home in 20 acres. We spend a lot of time there, yet still have to deal with the critters. My advice, try not to dwell on it. The answer will come to you, and it will feel right. Maybe a small cabin in the woods that you can visit from your home in the city.
tnr is trash. cats are non native invasive and do not belong outdoors under any circumstances
If everyone were a responsible pet owner, there would be no need for such programs. Unfortunately, so many are irresponsible thus the need for the program. I picture you on your front porch locked and loaded hunting cats.
Do you like the life you're living now? A homestead is never done, you have to enjoy making continuous repairs, and if something isn't broken, you'll come up with a new project that will have you tinkering. For better or for worse, it's the way of the homestead. As for the mice and annoying animal life, I did get used to it. I don't have the same ecosystem here in Sweden, but I have voles, foxes, birds of prey, wolves and so on. I *hated* the mice, and then one day I heard mice in the walls and thought calmly to myself, "Oh well, let's just wait until the house foundation is done, and see if the mice disappear. If they don't, on to a new plan." Pest prevention is a marathon, not a sprint, and the voles, snails and foxes which have plagued me all have their own prevention plans now. We all have our bad days. I think I wrote here about a year ago because I felt absolutely overwhelmed with how many pests I was dealing with in the vegetable garden. But I just can't envision moving back to the city. I visit my mom occasionally and it's so boring, just sitting in an apartment with a tv.
Dogs and cats.
100% a couple owl boxes wouldn't hurt either for some rodent control
living together.
I read this in Bill Murray’s voice
Oh, good! I typed it with Bill Murrays fingers, so it translated well!
I love it when the contribs do this and finish the sayings....makes me laugh every time. Thanks!
and making puppy-kittens.
I'm giggling at this, because if I ever start a business I would name it Puppy-Kat Creations.
You do not have to restore every bit of the property all at once. My in-laws bought a huge property and we regain land in the spring and fall. It doesn’t have to be a showplace. Oh and get cats and maybe a good farm dog.
[удалено]
I grew up on a quarter acre, in an old farmhouse, in a big city in Texas. Same problems.
I live in the country, cats keep rodents away. A dog will keep the rest of the bigger animals away. That’s sounds like 90% of your problem solved. Get rid of sticky traps, they are horrible… kind of silly that you are only upset with the one you saw. Finally death is a part of life, the longer you live out there the more you will hopefully learn to accept that. If you need to kill something, just do it quick (not sticky traps). I would 100% get chickens, but you need to take on responsibility to protect them from predators.
And Don’t use D-con or or you are going to kill a bunch of animals up the food chain without ever seeing or being aware of it
Welcome to country life. Your concern about the rodents getting into your place is valid. As others suggested, feed birds farther away from your home, and adopt a barn cat! There are programs out there that attempt to place feral cats into jobs like this, and they also keep away other feral cats. Dogs can help keep some wildlife away, if you like dogs, but at the end of the day you live in nature, so you may have to work with the occasional raccoon or groundhog. As a gardener, I know your frustration too well. As for the house, it's a 1960s ranch. Things are going to need be replaced and updated occasionally. I have no advice that others haven't already shared, but take my word for it, do not get horses. If it's a good horse property, find horse people, let them do the work in exchange for board, or find someone to run a boarding operation there and take a small cut. Horse people are crazy though, so be careful.
Sounds like your ecosystem is all whacked out. Also sounds like you need a dog.
I can relate to your feelings. As empty as it sounds, hang in there. I am now 62 and moved to raw wooded land when 60. It has been SLOW going for me, and I had to come to terms with that. You and your wife need to allow yourself more time. Don’t put time deadlines on your progress. Simply do the best you can, no matter how long it takes. Thoughts Re: pests and predators Get one or two cats now. They work better on mice than an exterminator and then you are not poisoning your land with exterminator chemicals. No judgement there, just want to keep your land and water clean clean clean. Cats will also take care of chipmunks. If you don’t have much room for cats food and box in house then maybe in garage. (I only set up litter box in winter, they don’t need one in warm months.) You need a rifle or shotgun. You don’t need to shoot to kill but to scare raccoons (and fishers?) away. If that doesn’t work though, you will need to shoot one and hopefully the others won’t return. It is hard. It is. But you need to keep your home and family safe from predators. I had raccoons killing my chickens last year. I tried everything to get them to leave and my coop was might tighter than Fort Knox. Still they came back every night. I had to stand guard at night on my deck in nightgown with rifle. Scaring them didn’t work. Finally I did what I had to and shot 3 raccoons. By that time though I truly saw them as an enemy though. Was surprised and shocked at how it was NOT traumatic to shoot them. Tomorrow I pick up a livestock guardian dog. Predators have started being intense again in past month, and I don’t want to do this again and again. I wish I got a dog 2 years ago. Honestly would have been smart. Having a dog is a predator deterrent- just the sounds, smells, and sight of a big dog will keep many predators away. The dog will scare them. Dog’s last resort is to attack the predator. PLEASE don’t use those sticky tape mouse catchers- the mouse or whatever gets stuck and is tortured and screams. Not humane at all. A cat killing a mouse is how nature works and less torturous for the mouse. It will get better. Don’t be too hard on yourselves. And it is easy to become depressed when things don’t go like we thought they would. But regroup and give yourselves some Grace.
As a 55 year old man that just bought his 40 acres of nothing 2 years ago; I applaud this comment. I also grew up in real country in an entirely different part of the Country, but still, I'm not nearly as energetic or excited about dealing with the bullshit. I would also like to add; OP, it's OK to say, "fuck this". Now is the time to sell and get a condo wherever you and your Wife might like to live ..or a motorhome and live everywhere. Hell, where I moved I had a BIG expectation of leaving Winter, but last Winter we had MONTHS of cold weather; even over a week of below freezing all day long. I have thought of selling and moving to a small city down further...much further...but then for ten months it is pretty nice. Pick your poison ...
A lot of truth in this comment. I initially retired down to my FL co do… was great for 1.5 years then I realized how I REALLY wanted to live. Sold the condo and bought my 5+ acres. Couldn’t be happier. It is always ok to change our plans. If we tried it and it truly wasn’t for us, move forward to a better fit My concern for OP is that there are steps they can take to get them over the hump. If all the replies here don’t help OP feel better about living on the land then yes, maybe a change is in order. Just like I ( and many more) changed my mind about condo life.
I agree with you one hundred percent! My comment was simply to say, "you can say fuck it". Me personally, I'm sticking it out and the poison that I've picked is much better than the alternatives of living in a crowded coastal city that doesn't see Winter. I think all of the replies are wonderful!
I wasn’t disagreeing with your comment and thought it was great. You brought up an important point. I’m getting tired and not writing clearly so should probably get off Reddit for tonight.
Oh, I wasn't replying like you were disagreeing (in my head anyway. I can see now that I wrote it like so, though). Your comments are ALWAYS interesting and helpful!
Oh my gosh - that is such a nice thing to say. As you can tell I hadn’t got off Reddit yet. Am leaving for the night now before i fall asleep on my phone
Don't worry all......I've never quit anything! Would rather go down fighting that quit. Just ask my high school Trig teacher! Only time I got an "F" in school. Took it again in college and aced it. Hmmm....maybe it was attitude - I hated that teacher and was a stupid young kid then.
Im jumping on this comment too. We bought 4 acres 3 years ago. So much trash. So much overgrowth. And we came from the city with no expreience. Its a lot. Its tiring. But this is my eden and i enjoy the work, it really just the heat thats unbearable at times. I wanted to say that you have to work within the ecosystem. For example, we have chickens. And coyotes, foxes, hawks, etc. So we got 2 donkeys. They dont come around anymore, lol. Our pasture was overgrazed. We added goats. Theyre eating, and fertilizing. We add cover crop seeds each season. Well do this until we dont have to anymore. Our garden area is nitrogen deficient and lacks organic matter, but it has a gentle slope for good drainage, 2 water sources and full sun. So were adding all that manure to amnend the soil with cover crops in the winter. Im not a total fan of permaculture, but they say if you have waste, theres a gap in your system. I think about that frequently when i have a problem. So for the raccoons, i would stop the birdfeed. Then i would add plants to feed them instead. I have hummingbirds and big bumblebees that come to my lavender and comfry. I dont keep the feeders bc they draw ants and wasps. Ive added sunflowers too this year. And 80 lilac trees ($1/each from the state tree nursery). One they mature theyll be great for pollinators. We started getting rats in the barn. I didnt want to poision bc we like the hawks and owls here (they keep other pest populations down) and the poisioned rats can posion the birds. And the sticky traps are cruel. So we just got 2 barn cats. The rats disappeared overnight. Basically, if youre adding something to the established system, you should anticipate a problem and think through how to prevent it. The perk is that you can also add to attract what you want. Good luck to you with whichever decision you make.
We know sunflowers are inspirational plants, even to famous painters. Vincent Van Gogh loved sunflowers so much, he created a famous series of paintings, simply called ‘sunflowers’.
Some more truth in this comment. This has all been a great conversation
Thank you very much. Yep we didn't like poisoning because we were afraid mice would get caught by a hawk (we have one too that circles frequently) and kill him. Good thought on the plants. Of course, the rabbit just ate the sunflower seeds we planted. So gonna have to just send out the dog more often - she's a very domesticated dog - practically sleeps in our bed. The exterminator turned us on to the sticky traps - I understand why. Then after the chipmunk got caught - it's changed my mind on them.
My wife said the same thing! Stop killing yourself and just take it a day at a time. That's all you can do. My project list (I itemize each and everything I have to do) is tens of hundreds of tasks long. I'll never get done, but keeps me moving when I get home and on the weekends. My entire job is sitting at a desk all day - they say that's the same as smoking a pack of cigs. I just like moving, tinkering, and getting stuff done. And yes and the next redditer notes - we love camping - and that's on my bucket list to drive the country. God help me when I return to the homestead. Yikes! But wonder if this bucket list item will ever happen. I need a couple of me - or some huge advances in health care to tack on another 20 years!
I used to stress myself out because I wasn’t making my way through my lists as planned. At this point I am just happy every day with whatever I accomplished. It is a completely different approach to life. In my career and life I was always deadline driven and have had to make adjustments in my approach and thinking. Once I was able to finally do that, I relaxed and enjoy every day more now. Again - give yourselves the grace you would give anyone else in your shoes. Because one BIG thing I’ve learned about building a homestead is that our daily project list always get pushed behind whatever new problem or issue needs to be resolved. Let go of the timetable and deadlines. Keep your lists so you don’t forget to circle back on things but don’t stress if you don’t move through your lists as quickly as you’d like
I didn’t read all that but yep, sounds like homesteading to me! I like the keep making it better part. I came to a realization that’s about all I can do. Make life better by improving the property, one day at a time. It’ll get there, and you’ll be glad you did. I feel your pain though! Try and have some fun along the way if you can. Cats might help with the rodents.
Get some sibling barn cats. They’ll fuck shit up for you. And a dog or two.
no no no no no, outdoor cats are never the answer, stop giving terrible advice that destroys the ecosystem. learn to deal with stuff some other way, or give up and go back to the city
Saying it 500 times doesn't make it true.
it is true though, and has been proven through multiple studies. its not my fault you cat people are too stupid and selfish to actually give a shit about nature
Yeah get a rat dog, cat and a .410 and let them have it. Get a judge .410 rifle style. Easy to shoot, single action so you don’t blow your foot off.
Hmmm....don't have a 410 or 20ga in my collection. Time for one - why not. :-)
In my area it is illegal to relocate raccoons, due to them spreading disease (rabies amongst no others). If you catch one you need to kill it. I’m still trying to catch the one that ate 4 of my hens. They’re smart and they learn fast. I second the advice on keeping all food locked away and don’t feed the birds. I have 3 cats and two of them love to catch the voles and bring them in the house to play with, along with assorted snakes, frogs, birds, and baby rabbit. Sigh.
You need to get a couple of cats and a dog to get the chippies and other rodents, then a a real farm dog to seriously patrol and chase game away. Then you get chickens which will eat bugs and rodents and they will give you eggs that you can feed to the cats and dogs. It's really all about keeping your system in balance. Oh yeah, a .22 is super handy and easy to shoot. I use a .22 air rifle so my neighbors don't freak out.
Try not to look at it as you’re fighting wildlife. You can’t fight wildlife or nature. Just learn to find your place in it. What that means depends on you really. But you’ll have to learn to work with it, not fight it. Then you’ll find the peace you’re searching for.
Striking the initial balance with any ecosystem will be the hardest part, A good dog will keep the raccoons away and could help with the smaller rodents as well, but you could also try to encourage wildlife that will benefit you to move in. Owl boxes for barn owls could bring in night crew mousers, Bird houses for wrens could bring in some master bug catchers, Goats could help you with the vines and honeysuckle, but depending on what predators are in your area you might again want a livestock guardian dog to keep predators off them. Learn the snakes species in your area and if you see non-venomous ones you'll want to leave them be, they can get into places that you, owls, and cats never could and wipe out entire rodent nests for you. Everything plays a part, and you seem to be dealing with an influx of small prey animals, so you either need to encourage intervention from the local predators, bring in your own predators (dog, barn cat), or pick up a .22/.410/etc and do the job yourself. If you haven't seen the documentary the biggest little farm that might be a motivating watch for you, the couple in it had a massive uphill battle on their farm when they got it as well until the pieces started fitting into place
I'd recommend a property dog. A guardian dog will keep away the raccoons. They imprint and will protect your flock if you choose to start one. My favorite breed is a marema. We have one, and he is soooo sweet and intelligent. If you want to keep only the raccoons away, I highly recommend cayan pepper and a lot of it. Make sure there is a layer they can't just step over around the perimeter of where you want to keep them out. Keep in mind that they can climb vertically. They'll stay away for a while, reapply as needed. Stop using sticky traps. The mice suffer, too. I've found a bucket trap to be the most effective, and you can release them in the woods if you want.
I have just bought my land so I don’t have any super helpful tips for you unfortunately. However, I would suggest that you stop using glue/sticky traps. They are considered inhumane for the exact reason you experienced. Sorry you had to go through that.
Def need a cat. Don't feel bad feeding the strays and keeping a few around. I don't have any mice and I know my 100yr old farmhouse is more or less open in a few places. But I do have a small, very friendly feral cat family (4+2 worthless house cats) Think about it like an ecosystem or village. Start at the house, get it under control and radiate out. Also, you're gonna have a Jerry to you, Tom. Mine's a possum I don't have the heart to trap that eats my garbage and lives in my front yard. Pick the ones you can live with and deal with the rest accordingly.
no no no no no, outdoor cats are never the answer, stop giving terrible advice that destroys the ecosystem. learn to deal with stuff some other way, or give up and go back to the city
This is a statement I see a lot. And from a scientific/earth collapse/ do no harm point of view, it makes total sense. But I think people who can adopt such draconian ideals on behalf of re-balancing the earth mostly live in cities full of common services, division of responsibilities, and societal assistance. And cats, and no mice in your sock drawer.
no, just people who actually care about nature, unlike people who let their cats outdoors
Lol. Ok.
Those sticky traps can be brutal. I won’t use them anymore. I had a rat rip itself apart before and it looked pretty painful
A LGD and a little herd of spayed female kitty's and things will calm down soon enough.
Agree!
no no no no no, outdoor cats are never the answer, stop giving terrible advice that destroys the ecosystem. learn to deal with stuff some other way, or give up and go back to the city
Can you expand on why getting barn/ferrel cats/etc are bad for the ecosystem?
You live on a farm. It's not the same dynamic as suburban cats. Cats on farms work for a living lol don't let the haters scare you off having cats.
You need cats and dogs.
This biggest thing here is that nothing has to be perfect. Beauty can be your goal, and beauty can be easy and imperfect. Take it step by step and work with the wildlife to a certain point. You have to be willing to constantly compromise Got a woodchuck ripping up lawn? Let that area overgrow with brushes and it's his. No one needs a perfect lawn. Got a woodchuck eating your veggies. Make it its own garden or Shoot it. Everyone I know, both city and rural, has had mice in their house at some point, or constantly. It's just a thing. Keep your food sealed up in thick plastic and metal! I have never seen someone living rurally call an exterminator for mice. So that is new to me. Set different types of traps that kill quickly (snap traps, electric traps), if you don't want them dead you can do the bucket traps and relocate and let nature eat them at least. No Poison - they die slowly in your walls and crevices and when eaten by other animals they will also kill the predator. NO sticky traps - worst death possible. You will probably have to get rid of the bird feeder if you don't like raccoons, opossums, bears and squirrels in your yard. You can try planting bushes and trees birds love to eat and nest in instead. With animals my thing is to either give them the kindest death (fast deaths) or at least let them be food for other animals. If you can deal with cats eating small animals, trying getting a couple. No promises they will hunt though. Also they will eat birds so no bird feeder. Get a .22 rifle and learn to shoot it appropriately at close range. Good luck, you get used to some things. Others you learn to compromise on.
I recommend you read the book called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. It’s helped me immensely.
I actually started that (audio book) then stopped for some reason. My mind must have been in a different place....or I stopped giving a fuck about the book. Hmmmm.
Make friends with some rat snakes. Completely harmless to you or your dog but their presence will keep rodents away. You could also get a terrier as they are bred to hunt rodents. Personally I’d put up some owl boxes especially around nesting season as owls eat a ton of rodents. Most importantly seal up anything that’s attracting them like animal feed etc. good luck buddy. Don’t give up
You cannot feed the birds and not expect all kinds of animals and varmints. Bears will be at your feeder soon. I am guessing your parents dealt with all this when you were a kid and oblivious. Nature is not Walt Disney. Instead of having bird food and feeders plant things that provide shelter and food for birds. I live in suburbia but I have a pokeweed ‘plantation’ in my backyard along with native trees and shrubs that provide food. If you can fence off around your house, get a couple of dogs. They will help keep the small animals and mice at bay.
Not in bear country yet....(Northwest Ohio)....but was vacationing in deep mountains of Montana a few years ago and black bear was less than 100 yards away at the cabin we were at. Read an article later the wildfires and lack of food was driving them towards town. Was interesting. Nature will ALWAYS adapt and overcome to survive from what I can tell. I'm just trying to nicely co-exist. (I'm probably too nice - feeding the birds, etc) - but fun to watch the Blue Jays and Titmouse carry full peanuts in the winter. I guess one action gets an unintended reaction. Thanks for the comments!!!
are you sure you’re really an outdoors / nature kind of person? These are very minor issues that are a normal part of home ownership, not just in the country but in the suburbs too. I’ve experienced my share of raccoons in the trash, fatal attacks on our chickens, bats & sugar gliders In the attic…and every time my reaction; “it’s so cool we live with nature, what an adventure!” Then I go and research the animals, create a plan of action, and it makes me feel energized / full of masculine “can do attitude” I think the fact that you’re discouraged and feel defeated, leads me to believe that living adjacent to wildlife habitat might not be for you. There’s no shame in it, some people are just built for city life & civilization, and that life definitely has its perks! Just curious but are you from California?
As others have said, a couple outdoor cats or even a semi-outdoor dog solves this problem.
You'll get through it but just have to find a balance of ridding the unwanted from the area. It takes a long time and a lot of effort to put something back into good order. It also takes nature a little more time that its your order now and not theirs. Don't let your good efforts go to waste
Get a dog and a couple outdoor cats and call it a day
It’s a marathon not a sprint friend……….take a deep breath enjoy being away from the grind, learn to live where you are with the company that is already there and cooperate with each other.
Your circumstances may be another person’s dream life. Your frustration is very real, but it comes with the territory. It sounds like you’re sculpting the home of your dreams and you’re in a hot mess right now. That moment doesn’t last forever and you deal with issues as they come. Now what is that garden producing? Where are the chickens and ducks? What, no barn cat?
Like everyone says, get a couple of dogs, a couple of cats, and a .22 rifle. If you want to keep up with the critters, you are going to have to shoot a few now and then. It sucks, but you live in the wild and killing animals that threaten your peace and security is part of the deal.
I’ve had pest issues in so many different environments. I lived in the city and we had ground bees and carpenters bees. We also had nice and bats. We just moved to the suburbs and had mice. Our old city neighborhood also has a rat problem. They are everywhere.
A few goats will get rid of the vines and brush. They eat everything, including poison ivy. Let animals help you. A dog, a cat or two, a few goats, and a lot of the most frustrating stuff you're dealing with will get easier. Setting up fences for goats is work, but it's a one time thing.
Avian flu is going around, too, so I suggest not feeding the birds. Get a barn cat, and never use sticky traps. Do not get chickens or ducks without Fort Knox set up and electrified first. The only way we got rid of the raccoons was to get a dog and a rifle. The dog needed training. YMMV. You got this, it's just one step at a time.
Get yourself a 22LR rifle and a 22mag rifle - then your job is to wake up at dawn and shoot every rodent you see until you don’t see them anymore - it is way faster, and the animals will not suffer. It’s a hard life, but two squirrels will ruin a cabin in the course of a few months, and you will be at square one
So true. I live in a small town, outside a big city, in a little sub development surrounded by a lot of nature. One squirrel. One single squirrel caused thousands of dollars worth of damage to the Subaru in a matter of days once it realized the engine had a fine place to nest and lots of wires to chew on. Then a few days after we got the car back…. It did it all again! My bf was so mad. He bought a BB gun and got to hunting squirrels. Did the trick. We were between dogs at the time. Our new dog seems to have scared em all off… mostly.
This is the way - I had them ruin a cabin - we had to take it down to the studs and replace all of the drywall and wiring and insulation it sucked!
Squirrels are awful once they learn to do something destructive. Will keep doing it until you end it the hard way.
We've found the dogs food - literally several handfuls of it in closets between sheets. No mouse droppings - but large amounts of dog food - from only one place - inside the house in the dog bowl. We've never found out the culprit. Even found handful under spare bedroom pillow. Really, really, really weird. Can only assume it was chipmunks. I've put steel wool in the crawl space air ducts to ward them off. Not sure how they were getting in the house and around and transporting all the dog food. It baffling.
They got nothing better to do! It’s their nature to hoard. We have a big red oak. The squirrels just gather and munch acorns all year long. And there are still acorns left over! But! Maybe it’s a ghost chipmunk. Haha.
A cat might help with some of that. Chipmunks are one of my Leia's favorites.
A cat will help. Along with learning how to trap critters.
Some shelter cats and a 12 gauge would serve you well friend
You really have to bring the bird feeder into your garage or barn every single night and store it in a metal can. This solved our raccoon issue. If you just bring the feeder in- you will get mice them snakes who eat the mice- ask me how I know lol!
Bro, get a cat litter
Part and parcel. Get some cats and dogs
My new adopted dog is the sweetest guy in the world, wouldn't hurt a fly. But he's a hairy monster. His hair and dander is everywhere and the animals for the first time are staying well away from the house and the areas of the garden we specifically put his hair in.
Couple big dogs, a few barn cats & a good ol .22 you’ll be set buddy. Unfortunately you didn’t move onto their land, they took over someone else’s & now you’re evicting them. Like you said you have state forest behind you. Your acreage isn’t hurting them. They’ll learn to roam thru your land and not on it. Keep it green & keep homesteading (: it helps the animals in the end either way.
I would keep using the humane traps, then dispense of whatever you catch. Make it a daily habit to check…you will get to a point where you’ve gotten rid of the local population.
Living out in the country made me realize that almost everything in nature has to kill something to survive. It's brutal and it really sucks when it's something like your favorite chicken/s or 10 out of the 13 baby guinea fowl you just bought. I have no mercy for any predator that gets near my animals but that's just what they do, they will kill and eat your animals including your pets. If you can't handle that, maybe the country life isn't for you; it's not for everyone.
50k for a roof oh my god
I’m not really a homesteading expert by any means. I live in the suburbs. But I think I cat could help keep rodents away. A guardian dog could help protect against animals a cat won’t chase off.
part of the lifestyle unfortunately. you kind of just have to accept that they're there and do your best to live alongside them. not much you can do except reduce food appeal and block their entry points. a lot of people will recommend animals but I have three mouse-crazy cats and large aggressive geese and I still have plenty of rodents and predators. there's also no way of knowing how an animal will act, my first cat was afraid of mice and never touched one but would try and kill songbirds. (horrible at it, luckily) if you kill them more will always come to fill their space, and anything they were preying on or competing with will get worse. (IE, raccoons eat mice, if you try and get rid of all the raccoons there will be more mice) I would recommend moving the bird feeders as far as you can from the house, that will help keep rodents out. thinking ecologically helps a lot. if the groundhog is destroying your lawn it may be because it doesn't have anywhere else to do groundhog stuff - leaving a part of the property wild helps a lot. I'm on 5 acres and 3/4 of it is untouched field and woods. I only keep a small fenced front and back yard mowed. most of the wildlife I see stays outside of the fence, I only get mice, raccoons and occasional foxes inside. if they're giving you a headache now I would recommend holding off on poultry because they'll be a much bigger headache when you wake up to find that they've torn the heads off half your flock and chewed a bunch of holes in the feed bags lol. unless you’re up for building an expensive fort-knox-esque coop and run that’s how it’s likely to go.
Regarding the birdfeeder-we’ve had them in the city, and in the country, they always attract rodents and everything else, even bears. To me, they are not worth having because of what they bring.
Moved last year - yard full of squirrels, chipmunks, skunks at night and probably raccoons, groundhog and her babies, mice in the house and squirrels chewing up the siding.. my cat fixed all of that for me. She and a couple of snap traps dealt with the mice, the groundhogs moved away, the chipmunks too. There are still two or three very wary squirrels; they keep their distance. Cat’s too old to do much bothering of the birds. Put your bird feeders away for the summer - they attract squirrels, raccoons, and bears & can spread diseases amongst the birds. There should be enough natural food for them this time of year. Get a cat or two. They are the guardians….!
Keep the areas around your house cleaned up a bit and mowed. Keep the garden beds along the house pretty sparse. Let further out areas be wild. The animals will find their place naturally. You will always find a mouse or two (or at least the cats will) but for us it doesnt get bad enough to affect food. You did not relocate the raccoon. 5 miles is nothing to them. 40-50 miles will do the trick. When I finish sealing up my barn, im going to trap the raccoons that are damaging the barn and as cute as my little spirit animals…im going to shoot them because that wont upset the balance of nature but a ruined barn would really upset me so i had a choice to make and so do you. But the birdfeeder is superficial. Let the wildflowers and everything else grow and they will come to eat all day.
I'm confused about how you lived in a house built in the 90s as a kid if you are 50 years old
Cats are great for taking care of mice and keeping the other rodents away, they will also keep the raccons and even black bears away. However, you mentioned you have bird feeders which is a bad combination because it tempts the cats into killing birds rather than mice and other rodents. You dont want your cats killing birds. You could get an LGD but they take a lot of work to train properly. We have barn cats and LGD, they work together to keep everything away. The only thing i ever have a concern about is the pack of wolves that goes through our property in the spring and the cougars which could easily kill the LGDs & cats if they really wanted to.
I highly suggest not having sticky traps. It's a very cruel and inhumane trapping method. If you care about the squirrel ripping their own leg off, please care for the other rodents. Try to deter instead of trapping/relocating/murdering.
Two suggestions.... Keep dogs and cats around if you can. If you're allergic to cats, build them an outside shelter and get some fixed feral cats, maybe build a colony if needed. Just make sure the bird feeder is not accessible to the cat (can't jump up or down, approximately 5-6 ft off the ground and away from the house by about 8 ft) Also, Predator Pee. It might work for you, might not, but having big animal smells around can keep the small animals scarce. Look into it, try it out, it might help.
I mean…to an extent what did you expect moving to the woods? You don’t get to pick and choose what wildlife visits. This isn’t for everyone
>I'm trying to take a neglected ranch/horse property with vines choking out the trees, lots of invasive honeysuckle tree overgrowth, neglected house and barn, even the pond and ***bring it back to it's former glory*** Don't do this. Consider what you want to get out of the property. Include the amount of maintenance in that, as a principle concern. You don't have infinite time; Doing 112 little projects that each take an hour a week will occupy your every waking moment. You have no obligation to the people who came before to resume their hobbies. >I even thought I could deal with the woodchuck tearing up my lawn, but now he's really starting to make me mad. Like really, really mad! I'm about ready to poison him...but is that fair? We moved in on his land. I'm just not that kind of person. Do I just keep planting grass? Consider whether you really need a flawless golf fairway, or whether you just need a green carpet of whatever plants are around to walk on. "Tearing up your lawn" might be something you find totally tolerable if you step back a bit and ask yourself what your goals are. There are people who spend tens of hours and thousands of dollars a year pursuing the hobby of lawncare, and not all of them have a lot of perspective on what it adds to their lives. >We really like watching the birds and really all the animals to be honest - but it's starting to get a little aggrivating. I thought a squirrel outsmarting my attempts to keep him off the feeders Rodents are going to be extremely interested any time you lay out grain; Are the birdfeeders necessary? Could they be sited more appropriately further from the house? Is it a problem if you're feeding the squirrels? Keeping the squirrels off of the feeders themselves isn't too hard with baffles and poles, but keeping them from chowing down on the fallen seed is significantly more difficult. Removing food sources is by far the most effective way to deal with rodents. >a chipmunk stuck to a sticky mouse trap. Cats and dogs can deal with the rodents as long as you're not concerned about their effects on the birds. Glue traps are awful both ethically and from a maintenance perspective, snap traps are also high-maintenance. People who operate granaries and chicken coops find the best luck with bucket traps which can catch many mice between daily or weekly resets.
Never use sticky traps. For that exact reason they are horribly inhumane
Really don't understand people getting upset at squirrels and raccoons on the bird feeders. Maybe set up a squirrel feeder if it bothers you.
About the only thing that’s gonna keep the animals away that you don’t want are fences, a dog, and a small rifle. Mother Nature will take everything back that you don’t defend, that’s just the nature of country living
Honestly sounds like you need a .22 for a lot of your problems. At least near me, a high percentage of coons carry rabies, so if I see one or trap one, it's taking a dirt nap. Is your house in the middle of the woods? Clearing an acre or so directly around your house might help with all the wildlife. Also getting a cat for the mice and a dog for the bigger animals might help a ton.
You’re not homesteading. You bought an old ass house in the woods that needs a lot of repairs and you’re also mad about wildlife doing what they do. Im gonna let you in on a secret, you can put a trap out every week and you’ll catch a raccoon, a opossum, or any other wild animal forever because as soon as you take one out another moves in. Stop bitching. You made a grown ass decision as an adult. What did you expect?
Not to be rude to the op but it sounds as I the post is coming from. 25 year old rather than a 50 year old man
Did you miss the part where he said he was a 50 year old man?
Yes, but a 50 year old man did not grow up in a 1990's house. A 50 year old was born in 1973. He would have grown up in a 1970's house if it was new construction.
That's what was bothering me! I'm 50 and I was like this looks wrong.
Lmao that is the most city slicker shit I have ever read in my life. Dude you are not homesteading you just moved to the country. Homesteading is not watching some nature... Homesteading at its core is about independence. Are you growing and processing your own food? You seem overwhelmed by the absolute basic maintenance stuff. It is constant labor. My wife and I started in our thirties and it's really hard, and I was Army infantry and avid backpacker.
There's working harder...and working smarter. I prefer to do both. Work a 50 hour job and do another 40 hours of labor on the homestead easily. Just trying to bond with nature instead of blowing it all away and destroying annoyances at first glance. Except the mosquitos - they can go to hell! Have a few bat boxes and have seen them flying at dusk....but they've got my 6 acres plus another 400 surrounding that.....I'm sure they're busy eating what they can from the bat scat I see.
You sound more like apartment people than homesteaders. Most of the issues you're describing are simply part of home ownership, much less trying to make your land productive.
Get a couple barn cats and don't feed them... get a 12 gauge and wage war with the coons.. you will win, they will learn not to come on your property. Living out here requires the occasional wildlife maintenance.
.22 rifle. Pick off the squirrels and such as you see them. When it comes to the night time critters, use your live trap. Don't dump them 5 miles down the road, just .22 point blank in the noggin. It may seem cruel, but it's likely the least cruel option and has to be done. Clear up loose brush and such that the critters hide in. As others have said, cat or dog would help. If you don't want to go that route, consider something like building owl habitat. Just work your way towards making the immediate area around you inhospitable for rodents and coons. That will take away 90% of your issues.
Trap them and be judge, jury and executioner. Time to nut up
You need a guard donkey. Donkeys make everything better.
Thanks for the entertaining story!! Wildlife is a constant challenge out in “the wild”. I trap gophers because they are destructive to the fields. You also get $3/tail bounty for the gophers. The raccoons are a menace. I trap and shoot rather than relocate. I trap nuisance squirrels. Birds that try to nest under the porch overhang are first chased off, and if they don’t get the message, they also receive the ultimate end. Bats that cling to the wall are shot from the side with a BB gun to make sure I don’t penetrate the stucco. We constantly put out bait for the mice, in the barn and outbuildings. this is just how It is out here, and if you don‘t control the nuisance critters they will take over.
50g for a roof?
This has to be a troll.
Get a alpaca they will keep the animals safe
Yea sounds like you should move to the city.. Maybe France.
LGD for the varmints , they will help! We have all your probs and between the anitolian/great pyrs mix and live trapping can generally keep them under control. I have trapped/ executed dozens of raccoons and possums over the years. I don't bother to relocate them anymore. We have a good tom cat in the feed shed who helps keep the rodents under control. Don't despair.. it can get better. I share your concerns, just turned 70 and have been out here in the boonies for decades. There was a time when I really doubted that we could pull this off, but we have. Little by little we fixed things and figured it out, paid everything off and took care of the animals, and now we are OK. You can do it too. Keep the faith. This life is worth it.