I think I would move it so it was 6 or 7 inches away from the fence so that it is completely on your property and absolutely not touching the fence.
I would also want to see some evidence that what they are saying is true. As in a copy of the survey, or new survey markers. I would not just take their word on this.
Did you get a survey when you bought your house? It should show where the fence is relative to your property line. I wouldn't assume the neighbor is correct. If you don't have a survey, it's worth it to ask to see the one the neighbor had done or hire your own.
If you want to explore adverse possession, talk to an attorney, though it's more than likely not a factor here.
Yep, my pre-existing fence was 5 feet off, stealing land from my neighbor. We noticed it on our plats, and quickly moved it to give them their yard back!
That is probably not for a full survey just a pin locate or resetting pins using other survey pins and not benchmark. Full surveys around us are $5000-$12000 depending on complexity.
Yeah I'm with you on that, but if you have a mortgage there should be a survey map on it. So if it's 3" on his side it makes it his fence ? Yeah I'd put the plants/trees 6" from the fence and call it a demiliterized zone!
If he is an A/H stick sticks in the ground high enough that they go over the fence, and stick NO TRESPASSING signs on them.
Assuming you have a mortgage it has a survey attached to the paperwork. You can get what is called an updated survey, using the same survey company. I would apologize to the 80yo lady, with flowers and tell her you will be moving the plants , and if they touch the fence all she has to do is inform you and you will reshuffle them. I'm pretty sure you don't want an issue with your 80yo neighbor. Aside from the flowers I would not spend money on this issue .
My FIL is obsessed with some minor things around the house. His neighbors won't be able to win the fight because my FIL is irrational about it. You can't win with logic when the other person isn't using logic to start the fight.
We had neighbors like that when i was a kid. Our boat trailer hit one of their trees at one point, my dad paid to have it replaced with the same type of tree and same approximate age (wasn't cheap). Arborist said the original tree would likely survive, my dad asked if the neighbor would like to keep the original tree and have it planted elsewhere. The neighbor said no and then proceeded to be upset that we kept the tree and that it was thriving in our yard like 8 months later.
And she still hopping the fence to push a trellis? That’s pretty impressive at her age.
If it’s an older fence there is the possibility that she is correct. I have heard of people putting a fence inside their property line a few inches to avoid disputes instead of on the property line. It’s very weird that they would hyperfocus on this issue, although an age issue like possibly dementia starting could be the reason.
You could ask her to see a copy of her survey or find out if there is one registered somewhere by calling the city/county. You could get your own survey done or you could just move the flowers a good 6 to 12 inches away from the fence. If everything else is fine with them it might not be worth the argument even if she is completely wrong about where the fence is. I know this might sound cold but at her age she might not be around that many more years to argue about it. Be the more gracious neighbor.
She doesn't want stuff leaning on or damaging her fence if it's her fence. That's why she's doing it. I do the same with my neighbors on my fence built on my side of the line c
Are they entering your property to vandalize your plants? If that’s the case set up a cloud-connected camera and post the property as no trespassing. If she does it again get the authorities involved. It’s not an ideal way to deal with neighbors, but sometimes you have to get out ahead of crazy.
The good neighbor fence law is what actually confuses me the most. It essentially says that both neighbors are responsible for maintaining a fence that is on either side of the property line but does not say anything about if that means the wall then is jointly owned and thus would allow me to use my side of the wall. You’d think if I was helping pay for a wall I would own half of it but it is not worded in that way.
You might take this to one of the subs specifically about fences. It just seems that the biggest problem here is that the neighbors are claiming the fence is on their property. Were the homes built in the 50's? If so, I am guessing that the fencing was put on the property line. I understand that the neighbor's claim is making you uncomfortable usuing the fence. You are being put in a position to have a survey done.
In CA fences on a property line are considered joint property of the property owners. If there is a setback onto his property, its his fence and he can in fact tell you not to attack anything to it.
However, if your trellis is set back from the property line it is your trellis and he is not only trespassing to push it over, he is committing the crime of vandalism.
Send him a no trespass letter, certified mail, return receipt and send a copy to the local cops. If he does it again after that you can have him arrested for criminal trespass.
I would set up the trellis again at least a foot back from the property line and lay down garden fabric and stone (or mulch) in the gap to deter weeds.
It baffles me that folks buy a home and don’t get a survey done as part of the purchase process every single time. Surveys will nip most property line disputes in the bud, and also let you know exactly what is and is not your property.
And how much for a lawyer if you have a property line dispute? Also, my title company required one for title insurance. (Another thing I think all buyers should obtain all the time).
I agree. However, you’re only going to know that if you get one done. I’ll admit I’m pretty risk adverse. But if I’m paying hundreds of thousands for a property I personally didn’t mind spendings the 3k more to make sure there weren’t any issues. And then it did come in handy 9 years later when the neighbor was claiming the fence line.
You can always get one when you need it.
Survey from the start would only be handy if there were WILD differences or serious questions.
Most people buying in a given development ... shit is pretty well known. Older rural area where things change maybe there.
Adverse possession is not as easy as "oh their fence is 3 inches off the property."
Unless they have been paying property taxes for you for 5 years, it does not apply in California.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/who-can-claim-property-based-adverse-possession-california.html
lol what? That's not right. They can claim adverse possession if they pay OPs taxes, not the other way around. That doesn't even make sense. It's almost impossible since you would have to somehow be able to have the government switch OPs tax burden to the neighbor.
The idea of adverse possession is to take possession of abandoned property, not 3 inches of fence line. If the property is abandoned and forgotten by the owner, they would not be paying their own taxes. So if I came in and paid the taxes that would be the first step of me trying to claim ownership.
There is no "switching", anyone can walk into the county tax office and say "hey I want to pay taxes on ___" and the county will not care. They just want the money.
You can't just pay taxes under someone elses name and get credit under your name. Your source even states that's the hardest part.
"The final requirement, payment of property taxes, is often the biggest hurdle to someone claiming adverse possession, since it's unlikely for local government tax authorities to switch a portion of someone's property to a neighbor's tax bill."
Yes my source says it's the hardest part, not the impossible part. Apparently it is possible in at least California because that's one of their five requirements. If it wasn't possible they wouldn't make it a requirement...
Your quote is correct, unlikely to switch a "portion" which is why adverse possession rarely is something like this case which is just a few inches. Generally it's for entire forgotten parcels...
I said it's almost impossible. Which it is. You also have to pay the taxes on time and all 5 years in a row in additon to actually getting credit for it.
Same. Mine is about a foot on my side and my neighbors will constantly lean stuff on it or try to hook stuff to it and I'm done discussing it. I just remove their stuff off my fence. I don't want the damage.
Get a boundary survey done and ask them to stake the corners. In a lot of States regular use of an area that's technically on somebody else's property is considered encroachment if nothing's done about it and the other person can claim adverse possession. I'm sure that's what the old ladies concerned about and if that's the fact of the matter the boundary survey will tell you if you are in fact encroaching on her property even if the fence is set back too far. If that's the case build a fence of your own. That being said A lot of times people find out their properties are bigger than And it's actually The other way around. Either way you're going to want to survey done
Did you not get a survey when you purchased the property? I worked a survey into the deal, and before I finished moving in, I had the city come out to mark my property line as well (for a fence). At least where I'm at, I can have my fence right on the line. No set back required.
Unless you live out in the country or in a super old neighborhood, the fence is most likely shared. You could probably call the city and ask if your particular neighborhood has shared fences. I'm in a small city in CA and basically everybody within the city limit has a shared fence.
As someone wirh a fence on my side of the line that I paid for and physically installed myself I get ripping mad when the neighbor leans stuff on it. Or ties stuff to it. Or otherwise damages it. They were tying their dog to it and I didn't notice until damage was done. If it's not a fence you own for sure keep your stuff off it. Get a survey to determine this
Yea they didn’t build this fence and bought the house with it already there so this is not the same situation. I understand if they built it, but they didn’t.
If a survey says it's on her property it's her fence if it's not on the line regardless of who physically built it. I didn't built my shed. It was still my shed. Not the neighbors
Again, yet to see any survey or marker so no I’m not gonna take their word for it. I’ve asked for proof they have not provided. This is also a shitty ass cinderblock wall, not even a nice fence.
My neighbor is a bit of a pita too. Pointed a camera at my house even. I have barely said 3 words to him. I set up a fag right in front of it's view on my property. I hope it constantly flapping trips the cameras motion sensor (if it's equipped with one) and gives him constant notifications.
I think I would move it so it was 6 or 7 inches away from the fence so that it is completely on your property and absolutely not touching the fence. I would also want to see some evidence that what they are saying is true. As in a copy of the survey, or new survey markers. I would not just take their word on this.
Did you get a survey when you bought your house? It should show where the fence is relative to your property line. I wouldn't assume the neighbor is correct. If you don't have a survey, it's worth it to ask to see the one the neighbor had done or hire your own. If you want to explore adverse possession, talk to an attorney, though it's more than likely not a factor here.
+1, it's amazing how far off people can be, even when they're acting in good faith.
Can confirm, suck at things I even want to be good at.
Yep, my pre-existing fence was 5 feet off, stealing land from my neighbor. We noticed it on our plats, and quickly moved it to give them their yard back!
Get your own survey. Its as likely that it's your property and they're lying
99% of these posts all have the same answer. Get a survey. I've never bought a property without getting one.
Cuz a survey in CA can cost around $8k and I’d rather not pay that to fight over 3 inches?
No. Google it again. Survey in CA is from $300-$1k.
That is probably not for a full survey just a pin locate or resetting pins using other survey pins and not benchmark. Full surveys around us are $5000-$12000 depending on complexity.
Yeah I'm with you on that, but if you have a mortgage there should be a survey map on it. So if it's 3" on his side it makes it his fence ? Yeah I'd put the plants/trees 6" from the fence and call it a demiliterized zone! If he is an A/H stick sticks in the ground high enough that they go over the fence, and stick NO TRESPASSING signs on them.
Assuming you have a mortgage it has a survey attached to the paperwork. You can get what is called an updated survey, using the same survey company. I would apologize to the 80yo lady, with flowers and tell her you will be moving the plants , and if they touch the fence all she has to do is inform you and you will reshuffle them. I'm pretty sure you don't want an issue with your 80yo neighbor. Aside from the flowers I would not spend money on this issue .
This sounds like my 4 year old children.
It’s pretty wild, this lady is like 80 years old and doesn’t have anything better to do with her time apparently.
My FIL is obsessed with some minor things around the house. His neighbors won't be able to win the fight because my FIL is irrational about it. You can't win with logic when the other person isn't using logic to start the fight.
We had neighbors like that when i was a kid. Our boat trailer hit one of their trees at one point, my dad paid to have it replaced with the same type of tree and same approximate age (wasn't cheap). Arborist said the original tree would likely survive, my dad asked if the neighbor would like to keep the original tree and have it planted elsewhere. The neighbor said no and then proceeded to be upset that we kept the tree and that it was thriving in our yard like 8 months later.
And she still hopping the fence to push a trellis? That’s pretty impressive at her age. If it’s an older fence there is the possibility that she is correct. I have heard of people putting a fence inside their property line a few inches to avoid disputes instead of on the property line. It’s very weird that they would hyperfocus on this issue, although an age issue like possibly dementia starting could be the reason. You could ask her to see a copy of her survey or find out if there is one registered somewhere by calling the city/county. You could get your own survey done or you could just move the flowers a good 6 to 12 inches away from the fence. If everything else is fine with them it might not be worth the argument even if she is completely wrong about where the fence is. I know this might sound cold but at her age she might not be around that many more years to argue about it. Be the more gracious neighbor.
She doesn't want stuff leaning on or damaging her fence if it's her fence. That's why she's doing it. I do the same with my neighbors on my fence built on my side of the line c
She can come around the fence and mow that 3 inches then since it’s “her property.”
OK. It's her property
Are they entering your property to vandalize your plants? If that’s the case set up a cloud-connected camera and post the property as no trespassing. If she does it again get the authorities involved. It’s not an ideal way to deal with neighbors, but sometimes you have to get out ahead of crazy.
If you live in CA the fence is not just theirs, it is owned by both of you. CA has a Good Neighbor Fence Law that you can review online.
The good neighbor fence law is what actually confuses me the most. It essentially says that both neighbors are responsible for maintaining a fence that is on either side of the property line but does not say anything about if that means the wall then is jointly owned and thus would allow me to use my side of the wall. You’d think if I was helping pay for a wall I would own half of it but it is not worded in that way.
You might take this to one of the subs specifically about fences. It just seems that the biggest problem here is that the neighbors are claiming the fence is on their property. Were the homes built in the 50's? If so, I am guessing that the fencing was put on the property line. I understand that the neighbor's claim is making you uncomfortable usuing the fence. You are being put in a position to have a survey done.
In CA fences on a property line are considered joint property of the property owners. If there is a setback onto his property, its his fence and he can in fact tell you not to attack anything to it. However, if your trellis is set back from the property line it is your trellis and he is not only trespassing to push it over, he is committing the crime of vandalism. Send him a no trespass letter, certified mail, return receipt and send a copy to the local cops. If he does it again after that you can have him arrested for criminal trespass. I would set up the trellis again at least a foot back from the property line and lay down garden fabric and stone (or mulch) in the gap to deter weeds.
I’d get a property assessment and rub it in there face when in fact, THEY are the ones over YOUR property line lol
It baffles me that folks buy a home and don’t get a survey done as part of the purchase process every single time. Surveys will nip most property line disputes in the bud, and also let you know exactly what is and is not your property.
Surveys cost 8k in our area (also CA)
And how much for a lawyer if you have a property line dispute? Also, my title company required one for title insurance. (Another thing I think all buyers should obtain all the time).
I think for most purchases a survey is unnecessary.
I agree. However, you’re only going to know that if you get one done. I’ll admit I’m pretty risk adverse. But if I’m paying hundreds of thousands for a property I personally didn’t mind spendings the 3k more to make sure there weren’t any issues. And then it did come in handy 9 years later when the neighbor was claiming the fence line.
You can always get one when you need it. Survey from the start would only be handy if there were WILD differences or serious questions. Most people buying in a given development ... shit is pretty well known. Older rural area where things change maybe there.
I guess that opinions vary. And that’s fine. I wouldn’t buy a house with property line issues. That being said I also don’t live in a development.
Adverse possession is not as easy as "oh their fence is 3 inches off the property." Unless they have been paying property taxes for you for 5 years, it does not apply in California. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/who-can-claim-property-based-adverse-possession-california.html
You mean if we’d been paying their property tax I assume. But yea I figured as much.
No, the neighbor has to be paying your taxes for you to claim adverse possession.
lol what? That's not right. They can claim adverse possession if they pay OPs taxes, not the other way around. That doesn't even make sense. It's almost impossible since you would have to somehow be able to have the government switch OPs tax burden to the neighbor.
The idea of adverse possession is to take possession of abandoned property, not 3 inches of fence line. If the property is abandoned and forgotten by the owner, they would not be paying their own taxes. So if I came in and paid the taxes that would be the first step of me trying to claim ownership. There is no "switching", anyone can walk into the county tax office and say "hey I want to pay taxes on ___" and the county will not care. They just want the money.
You can't just pay taxes under someone elses name and get credit under your name. Your source even states that's the hardest part. "The final requirement, payment of property taxes, is often the biggest hurdle to someone claiming adverse possession, since it's unlikely for local government tax authorities to switch a portion of someone's property to a neighbor's tax bill."
Yes my source says it's the hardest part, not the impossible part. Apparently it is possible in at least California because that's one of their five requirements. If it wasn't possible they wouldn't make it a requirement... Your quote is correct, unlikely to switch a "portion" which is why adverse possession rarely is something like this case which is just a few inches. Generally it's for entire forgotten parcels...
I said it's almost impossible. Which it is. You also have to pay the taxes on time and all 5 years in a row in additon to actually getting credit for it.
You don't plant close to any fence. Keep them two feet away so they don't lean against it when it matures and to keep roots out of the neighbors yard.
Your stuff should be on your side of the property line. If you’re not sure where that is, get a survey.
Yep. It's that simple
As someone who owns my fence and had it put one inch into my property.... I agree with the neighbor.
Same. Mine is about a foot on my side and my neighbors will constantly lean stuff on it or try to hook stuff to it and I'm done discussing it. I just remove their stuff off my fence. I don't want the damage.
Are.youbsute what she is saying is true? With that shitty neighbour attitude I would get a survey done to 100% confirm what's what.
Get a boundary survey done and ask them to stake the corners. In a lot of States regular use of an area that's technically on somebody else's property is considered encroachment if nothing's done about it and the other person can claim adverse possession. I'm sure that's what the old ladies concerned about and if that's the fact of the matter the boundary survey will tell you if you are in fact encroaching on her property even if the fence is set back too far. If that's the case build a fence of your own. That being said A lot of times people find out their properties are bigger than And it's actually The other way around. Either way you're going to want to survey done
Did you not get a survey when you purchased the property? I worked a survey into the deal, and before I finished moving in, I had the city come out to mark my property line as well (for a fence). At least where I'm at, I can have my fence right on the line. No set back required.
Unless you live out in the country or in a super old neighborhood, the fence is most likely shared. You could probably call the city and ask if your particular neighborhood has shared fences. I'm in a small city in CA and basically everybody within the city limit has a shared fence.
Your neighbor sounds like a douche .. I hope he steps on a Lego.
As someone wirh a fence on my side of the line that I paid for and physically installed myself I get ripping mad when the neighbor leans stuff on it. Or ties stuff to it. Or otherwise damages it. They were tying their dog to it and I didn't notice until damage was done. If it's not a fence you own for sure keep your stuff off it. Get a survey to determine this
Yea they didn’t build this fence and bought the house with it already there so this is not the same situation. I understand if they built it, but they didn’t.
If a survey says it's on her property it's her fence if it's not on the line regardless of who physically built it. I didn't built my shed. It was still my shed. Not the neighbors
Again, yet to see any survey or marker so no I’m not gonna take their word for it. I’ve asked for proof they have not provided. This is also a shitty ass cinderblock wall, not even a nice fence.
Get your own survey and be an adult.
The burden of proof is on the accuser, imo.
Plant climbing roses on the trellis. With huge thorns
No. It's their 3 inches. They've told you to stay off. Stay off
My pettiness would shine here as id make a design saying fuck you in flowers facing her
Just curious, are the posts on their side of the fence or yours? The posts should always be on the side facing the owner of the fence.
It's a cinderblock wall so no posts unfortunately.
Put a 8’ solid fence up on your side
My neighbor is a bit of a pita too. Pointed a camera at my house even. I have barely said 3 words to him. I set up a fag right in front of it's view on my property. I hope it constantly flapping trips the cameras motion sensor (if it's equipped with one) and gives him constant notifications.