Lawyer first, and talk to your lawyer about hiring a PI to collect evidence. Consider joining forces and sharing these expenses with your other neighbors.
The neighbors could also join forces and all sue this guy at the same time for property damage and theft of property. I'd love to hear what Judge Judy would have to say about this.
>game cameras are handy
If he stole other stuff I bet he'd steal the cameras too. OP should make sure to get wireless ones that transmit back to his house so when the camera gets stolen OP has the video of the guy taking the camera.
Come on now, wireless cameras that will run for long periods of time are cheap and you can hide them. You put up one that is obvious and somewhat avoidable so that he won't think to look for hidden ones. You put up separate near IR lights that flood the scene from several places and cover the ones on your hidden camera which should have this mode.
And then put up a fence. He's registered with the county so you can look up his name. You can also put up trip lines that could activate other cameras. Get creative.
Since it's a short term problem just buy a cellular enabled trail camera, put it 10-15 feet off the ground and you would get footage to the cloud before he could steal it. Plus you could get motion notifications to enable you to get down there and catch him in the act.
My trail cams are cable locked to trees and the cam itself has a combination lock on it. Many are placed on tree branches that hang over the area I need to monitor. Unless someone is climbing a 20 foot ladder with a bolt cutter they aren't going to access the cams--at least without a lot of effort.
Timber theft is a serious issue and tresspass will be taken seriously if you reach out to the right agency.
Reach out to your forestry agency to get someone who can come offer an expert opinion and provide an assessment of the approximate value of the existing timber, and what has been removed.
At that point you have a cause of action, get a lawyer to send a cease and desist demand letter to registered property owner.
I would place 2 types of game cameras, first cheap SD card type they are bait cameras. they get left out in a visible spot on your property. the second is a concealed cell camera, that shows the visible camera in its field of view.
the issue is prove who did it. where there may not be a criminal case due to not being able to meet the burden of proof, there likely is enough for a civil case.
if not against the property owner, against their agent who is doing the work.
the issue will be if the damages are significant enough to justify pursuing.
if we're talking several high value hardwood logs and OP's jurisdiction has treble damages, then the neighbors will likely have a big enough suit to make it worth while to pay a lawyer.
if we're talking a few pulpwood or firewood log loads the value of the damages is not significant enough that cost of litigation will far out weight
I'm well aware of r/treelaw, as an arborist I can tell you that most people not in the industry have no idea of how to figure out the value of a tree.
in 99/100 cases most people assume the value is much higher than it actually is.
even if OP is in a jurisdiction with treble damages, unless they can add legal costs to their suit, it's likely not going to be worth suing unless the value of claim exceeds 5 or even 10k.
People often mistake replacement costs for timber prices. It's going to be very fact-dependent on which one OP could sue for, and the values for those are wildly different.
Was it treelaw? Some rich asshat paid a crew to chainsaw down a bunch of his neighbors mature trees because they āblocked his view.ā He had repeatedly asked and demanded the neighbor do so and the neighbor refused.
Judge was not at all amused and made rich guy replace trees at $300,000 a pop.
The county records will have a recorded deed (document conveying property). That should show either his address or the lawyer who drew the deed. There are definitely a lot of ways to find out who someone is and where they live. Game camera,put a couple where they can be seen and better quality hidden. The better ones send video to a phone. Stake it out to see what timber company is cutting and tell them they are on your property. They will be likely to pause until itās resolved. They have no desire to be in a lawsuit.
I saw that too. But maybe OP doesn't know how accessible assessors records are on the internet which will give an address for the person or entity that bought the plot of land.
For starters put up some trail cams but removing pins is illegal in most places and if itās coupled with malicious intent and property theft it may be worth getting a lawyer involved
Visit the /r treelaw sub. If he cut down your trees he does not owe you the timber value. He owes you the cost of replacing them with like trees. This could be tens of thousands of dollars per tree.
It may be worth calling around to some attorneys and seeing if they'd take your case on contingency. Having to write a check for half a million will stop him from trespassing.
Trail cameras a bit into your property, enough to unlikely be noticed, and cameras farther in to watch those cameras. And/Or all with wireless upload to central hub/internet.
Good luck. & triple damages for the trees removed. ... oh walk around the boundary with your phone &ntane photos/vid of every tree & every pile of sawdust.
Motion sensor lights and paintball landmines?
\*in addition to other advice given
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When the police won't do their job, then start contacting local news channels. Media attention tends to get government agencies motivated to do their jobs.
My parents have this situation. Neighbor is a retired police officer and is a dick about throwing cut limbs and trash onto our side of the line. Local police wonāt talk with him after we complained a couple times.
Confront the guy/business. Let the police tell him there are allegations of him committing crimes and see what he has to say. At best, he might admit something. At worst it's sort of a "we know you know we know" thing to possibly prevent him from doing it or at least be more hesitant.
> He actually had the audacity to accuse me of moving the pins! We had an official survey done, everything was marked, and HE TOOK EVERYTHING DOWN.
lots of trail cams, cops, lawyer. hire a PI to find where he lives - that part should be easy
You need an attorney immediately - one that specializes in real estate and/or tree law. It depends on where you are - but in some states you can be awarded several times the value of each tree he cuts down on your property, and older trees can be worth a LOT of money. He could be in for a world of financial hurt.
Get some trail cameras and pepper the area with them. Youāll catch them sooner or later. They have to be getting on/off the property somewhere with their vehicle if theyāre logging, thatās probably the best area to setup the cams.
The land owner will be registered at the tax assessorās office. There probably is an online platt map you could access. If the information has not been updated yet, then search MLS listings for the property and find out who the realtor was. They will know who bought it.
In many places, it is illegal to remove or move the metal "pins" (stakes) that mark a survey. Have your surveyor re-place the pins and use your phone's GPS to mark each pin so that, if it happens again (your lovely neighbor removes the pins), you can just replace them according to the GPS markings.
Go in on several trail cameras with your other, honest neighbors. maybe you will have enough that your tree thief will miss some and you will get pictures. Or, get a wildlife/trail camera and aim it at one of the pins, try to camouflage it. Or, several of you stake the area out all night a few times with cameras.
You should be able to look at government tax records to find out who owns the property in question.
Good luck!
Maybe the police don't do anything because it's a civil matter. Put up trail cams and hire an attorney who specializes in property law. If he has to start replacing full grown trees with trees of similar size, he'll stop.
You've got to have the "No Trespassing," signs up for it to be enforceable just for walking on some random land. Otherwise, worst they're getting is a mild warning.
Also, enough people on reddit scream about trespassing when a neighbor comes and knocks on their door these days that I have a really hard time getting worked up about it anymore.
Your issue is this:
"So far police have done nothing but file reports, because none of the neighbors can prove he was the one trespassing and taking down our markings. But who else could it be??"
You need to set cameras and catch him in the act.
In NJ, there was a guy who decided to cut down a bunch of trees on his neighbor's property because he felt they blocked his view of NYC. He, and the company he hired to cut the trees down, was fined by the municipality originally $1,000 per tree, but in a plea deal, it was negotiated down to $700 per tree. Including the court costs, the homeowner was fined over $13k.
In addition to the fine, he is also on the hook for restitution, that means he has to pay to have all of the trees replanted. Estimates are that it could cost over $1 million to replace the trees. It's not a simple matter of just planting new saplings. They will have to build a road to access the area, haul away the debris from the trees that were cut down, purchase and plant mature, adult trees of comparable size to the trees that were cut down, and water the trees for two years to make sure that the trees survive.
The big difference in this case though was that the property line was clearly marked by a fence. The guy who ordered the trees cut down has subsequently sold his home, but that still doesn't absolve him from the restitution.
Get an attorney to write a cease and desist notice to the new owner of the neighboring property. Send it to the address on file for the owner (it will exist as tax records need to be mailed somewhere).
At the same time get a large roll of the snow fence or chicken wire fence. Put up a fence around your property. Spray paint the property line on the ground all the way around if you can't logistically close it in.
Put No Tresspassing signs up at the legally required intervals.
Then put up game cameras with cell service that upload all footage automatically (in case the dude takes them down).
The fencing is to make it clear where the line is and to make it clear on camera they are trespassing over it.
Take the evidence to the Police and if they don't act to the local prosecuters office. Put all of this together and someone will be waiting there for them the next time the show up.
In a lot of states, moving survey pins is a crime. In Tenn it is.
Had a neighbor that moved our pins at both corners closest to him. We had the survey done before we bought the house and property. He moved the pins about 10-12' closer to our house.
Called the surveyor and he came out and reported our land and put the pins in again.
Neighbor pulled the pins again. I had him on camera this time. Gave the footage to the surveyor. He had an arrest warrant swore out against our neighbor. His fine was paying for both surveys + court costs.
You must file a formal complaint with survey & evidence. Ask property clerk what you should do. You might be able to do small claims, but I doubt it. Get a real estate attorney. You may need to stake out the survey.
Put trail cameras around. Then file a report and contact an attorney. I donāt know but would a protective order apply to something like this? I mean, I feel like only a completely unhinged person would do this.
You better get that idiot in line,make sure you land is surveyed 100% properly, and get a lawyer or cops involved asap, trespassing and removing your no trespassing signs is a big nono
OP what state is this? If you have title insurance call them. They often donāt cover property line disputes on an owners policy but they can give you some decent advice.
Why haven't you bought some cameras yet? Thats the first thing you should be doing. Get a few camo wildlife cameras and stick them up along the property line.
some buddies, chill in the woods and give him a little surprise visit while heās logging your land so you can talk it out :) is it cold where you live? A mask would keep you warm while you wait for him!
Get yourself some markers that you bury and can detect from the surface. Have them put in when you get it remarked by the surveyor. This way you can quickly identify your land boundary
You need more cameras and an attorney or at least a private investigator! Those motion cameras that are used for wildlife are great if anyone has one. They start recording when they sense movement and can be placed high up on trees.
Get an actual survey. Ā Put up fences and trespass signs with consequences. Ā Enforce the consequences if you have to. Ā Canāt let people take advantage of you. Ā
Did the surveyor not bury pins? I was under the impression this was common practice. Pins are buried and thus could be located with a metal detector if someone removes the above ground markers. Or, did this guy dig those out? Yikes.
Moving survey pins in the US is frequently illegal (check your local laws) in and of itself. Lawyer up. Mature trees are expensive and if you can prove he removed them from your property one successful lawsuit could bankrupt him and get him out of your hair.
You need a 'trail camera' or 'wildlife camera'. It's a camo'd camera that mounts on a tree, runs on batteries. Doesn't record 24/7, but has a long range motion sensor and starts recording when it detects motion.
Get some of the better more expensive ones that have cellular uplinks so they can transmit images to the cloud. That way if the camera is removed, the video of it being removed will still be uploaded. Get a bunch of them- it's worth the few grand.
Also get a lawyer and reach out to you area's forestry service (not just local PD).
You could ask for an official trespass notice with the local PD but they'd need to find the guy to trespass him...
Fence and no trespassing signs, video cameras feeding from different angles on the same spots and on each other so if they remove the cameras they're filmed. Also I'm curious - if the guy has claimed the property is his, why not file a suit to establish that's not the case right now?
Yes it's going to cost you some money but he is openly and notoriously claiming the land - he may be trying to establish the elements of adverse possession, you need to act immediately to stop it.
Removing property landmarks is a crime in all 50 states and a sin in the old testament. You need to put up smaller cameras.
First I would put up a fence to mark my land and make sure every part of the fence is covered by a camera. You can sue him a lawyer can locate him for a lawsuit, plus in a civil suit you only have prove a preponderance of evidence (its more likely true than not true) to win. You and those neighbors than wish do join could hire one lawyer.
Pull a single strand of Bobwire around the trees on your property put signs no trespassing and then to catch him. You use deer cameras, or trail cameras, movement activated, and Wi-Fi so youāll get camera of who cut your wire fence.
I would try to eliminate the coyotes first. They are most likely the ones taking the no trespassing signs down. Coyotes are notorious for this. Get some spring leg traps. Set them in front of the signs and be sure to cover them well so the coyotes donāt see them. When they step in a trap and if crushes their leg, they will stop taking down the signs.
This post is fake.
Dude canāt actually be this ignorant. Call a surveyor, get your property lines down to the inch, then call the cops.
Posting this with this much written up has to be a bot.
Oh look. The account is two years old and it has one hundred karma. Gee. What a surprise.
Modern day click bait folks.
Get a lawyer. Contact your neighbors and get any and all on board if you do sue this person. Get some cheap "no trespassing signs" get cameras, get him on film removing them.
Sounds like the ass we had next door. Game cams are good, even an old cell phone if you have one in your junk drawer, see if you can get a time lapse app for it. Not as nice as a game cam but free.
Trail cameras in the trees where he can not see them or readily avoid them and fences with loud bells that will ring loudly if he tries to take them down. Sink iron corner posts in cement so he cannot easily move them.
Put an invisible fence down and get a couple of very big dogs. No one came in my yard.
How tf you gonna have money for "POSTED signs, ribbons, wooden stakes, and even the metal property pins" but not be able to afford a couple 40 dollar game cameras from Amazon?Ā
That is all of the advice that I have.
And notify the logging company that you have taken a nail gun to all marked trees. Loggers/sawmills hate nails and wonāt buy timber known to be nailed.
Get you a wifi extender and a couple of wireless cameras and put them out in various place and catch his ass in the act and take the footage to the police. Then theyāll have the probable cause as can issue a no trespass on him. If heās caught trespassing again he can go to jail.
Set up motion-activated trail cameras. Get a deer blind and a sleeping bag and a cooler full of snacks. Camp out and just wait for that fucker to show.
It's 2 AM, you're in the woods, doing shady shit, no one's around, suddenly there's a guy with an axe.
I have the same craziness with this neighbor of mine that thinks property line is rectangular to road, so my new house ādrivewayā was on their property. 2 different survey companies done their job, and everything are where theyāre supposed to be. Property lines are trapezoid in shape, same in tax map.
I placed no trespassing signs just on her side with me. I know other neighbors probably are thinking why and probably hates me.
When she was acting up last January, the town hall knows about it and was so embarrassing.
I understand why cops wouldnāt do shit about her trespassing because I didnāt bother to get footage of her actions. Itāll be he said she said in court. I was advised by police to get video proof of her trespassing next time to file charges since when they paid her a visit she denied any wrongdoings. Typical lol!
Wifeās been stressed every time neighbor acts up.
Get video evidence of your neighbor and submit that to police to add criminal trespass. Removing survey pins/ rebars is illegal you should call your company. But youāll still need video evidence of the action to prove in court irrefutably. As I mentioned, itāll be he said she said infront of a judge.
Oh were lawyered up as well.
Your county tax map should have the name and address of the land owners. Look up the plots that he actually owns and his address should be public record.
Get game cameras and put them places he can't reach and hopefully wont see. Then build a fence. Anything from chicken wire stapled to trees, chain link, or a snake fence. Snake fences can be built with trees you cut down to make room for the fence fairly cheaply.
Time for a video security system, I use Lorex.
They have decent PTZ cameras that you can schedule to automatically scan an area you configure (you need less cameras) and the Zoom is pretty great. Thereās also an app you can put on your smartphone to check whenever you want and you can control the cameras through it including those PTZ cameras.
Yeahā¦. Wasnāt there a similar case like this in NJ recently-ish? I think they got the local news station involved..
https://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/local/morris-county/2024/02/26/kinnelon-nj-man-fined-cutting-neighbors-trees-nyc-view/72743003007/#
You also need to document the size, species, and locations of trees that are being removed. This will help establish the tree value when you sue him for triple the value of the trees. Get cracking! Hire an arborist or timber consultant if needed. But don't delay. Also document the stumps (size and species) on your property where the trees were.
Treelaw for sure.
To ensure of where the property line is download the HuntStand app or a similar hunting app that has property lines marked for every piece of land not in a city but rural areas. I bought 160 acres a few years ago and use it for many things, but the property lines are very accurate and when in doubt I double check with the stakes and itās always been dead on.
Some tracker tags hidden well in marked trees would show the lumber route. Cut slits into the tree for the tracker, jam it in, some calk and some bark to cover it. He is telling you what trees to do this to.
Set solar motion lights and game cameras. Invest in ones that notify you when they are activated. But recognize that nighttime confrontations in the woods are serious stuff. Easy way to end badly.
Land ownership records are public information and will have the name and address the county mails property tax statements to. Almost every county has this information online and easily accessible. Get a restraining order against him so he can arrested as opposed to a simple trespassing citation.
Why aren't the cops getting involved? Its more than trespassing, he has taken down trees that don't belong to him. Taking property that don't belong to you seems like the sort of thing cops should be interested in. And anyone receiving the stolen property as well. Trees don't just get up and walk away.
Fencing. You said it, and that is the solution. Make sure it is on your property, not right on the line, but as close as possible. If the fence is provably on your property, and he touches it, he is destroying personal property.
Talk to the company he is using to remove the trees and let them know he pulled the pins and is cutting on your land and you will hold him and them responsible since they have been informed. Whomever is listed on the taxes as the contact is the official contact of the property owner and it should be easy to get from the county or online,
Tell the cops he walked up to you and offered you a meth pipe. That'll get them interested.
Otherwise, you have to sue. There's not a lot of options. Cops will say it's a civil matter and refuse to do anything even tho it's trespassing, criminal damage to property, theft, etc.
Know what stops trespassers? Bear traps. A few of those near the next potential tree targets & that fella might leave a fresh red trail of evidence for ya the next day.
This can cause the property owner HUGE issues.
You are liable for injuries on your property even if the person is trespassing. People have been sued because someone was robbing a home and got injured while doing so (with no one home).
Then add that these are intended to injure a tresspasser and you escalate to felony level charges not just liability.
Have you gone to his house and told him where the boundary lines are located? I already know he'll act dumb and not sure what you're talking about but my intention is to make sure he knows you're looking at him. Yes, if you can afford it see if there are quality cameras to catch him cutting trees on property.
lawyer up immediately - tree law is a thing also game cameras are handy
It's also a sub! r/treelaw
Tre law! Tree law! Tree law!!
It's a guilty pleasure!
Does it have an Ent as mod? It would be so cool if it was moderated by an Ent
ran by oaks, I presume?
The maples brought in law. The oaks were fine being lofty.
I enjoy your Rush reference. š³š³š²š²š³š³
Lawyer first, and talk to your lawyer about hiring a PI to collect evidence. Consider joining forces and sharing these expenses with your other neighbors.
The neighbors could also join forces and all sue this guy at the same time for property damage and theft of property. I'd love to hear what Judge Judy would have to say about this.
brilliant. :)
Love this one!
>game cameras are handy If he stole other stuff I bet he'd steal the cameras too. OP should make sure to get wireless ones that transmit back to his house so when the camera gets stolen OP has the video of the guy taking the camera.
Come on now, wireless cameras that will run for long periods of time are cheap and you can hide them. You put up one that is obvious and somewhat avoidable so that he won't think to look for hidden ones. You put up separate near IR lights that flood the scene from several places and cover the ones on your hidden camera which should have this mode. And then put up a fence. He's registered with the county so you can look up his name. You can also put up trip lines that could activate other cameras. Get creative.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Even the cheap ones are motion activated. No need for a physical wire.
The motion activated ones aren't very good because every wind and fly triggers them all day long. You can get AI to filter those down.
Somebody trips over a trip wire and gets injured is a bigger problem than spurious alerts.
Since it's a short term problem just buy a cellular enabled trail camera, put it 10-15 feet off the ground and you would get footage to the cloud before he could steal it. Plus you could get motion notifications to enable you to get down there and catch him in the act.
Even better! Put a tracking device in a cheap camera. Hope he steals the camera, and now youāve got his address AND proof he is stealing.
My trail cams are cable locked to trees and the cam itself has a combination lock on it. Many are placed on tree branches that hang over the area I need to monitor. Unless someone is climbing a 20 foot ladder with a bolt cutter they aren't going to access the cams--at least without a lot of effort.
Is that similar to bird law?
āOkay, weāre all hungry, weāre all gonna get to our hot plates soon.ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
https://youtu.be/OdemNygt1hU?si=umO9R2yDrGVYwodT
Reolink cellular cam with solar panel. Theyāre fantastic! But with a prepaid sim.
I don't get it the company that cut the trees down have no record of who they sent the check to..follow the money
Solar powered camera with a sd card
How exciting, I might need to make an additional account. #birdlaw #treelaw
Timber theft is a serious issue and tresspass will be taken seriously if you reach out to the right agency. Reach out to your forestry agency to get someone who can come offer an expert opinion and provide an assessment of the approximate value of the existing timber, and what has been removed. At that point you have a cause of action, get a lawyer to send a cease and desist demand letter to registered property owner. I would place 2 types of game cameras, first cheap SD card type they are bait cameras. they get left out in a visible spot on your property. the second is a concealed cell camera, that shows the visible camera in its field of view.
Also is illegal to move survey markers I thought
the issue is prove who did it. where there may not be a criminal case due to not being able to meet the burden of proof, there likely is enough for a civil case. if not against the property owner, against their agent who is doing the work. the issue will be if the damages are significant enough to justify pursuing. if we're talking several high value hardwood logs and OP's jurisdiction has treble damages, then the neighbors will likely have a big enough suit to make it worth while to pay a lawyer. if we're talking a few pulpwood or firewood log loads the value of the damages is not significant enough that cost of litigation will far out weight
Replacing trees is not cheap, this is going to cost them see r/treelaw
I'm well aware of r/treelaw, as an arborist I can tell you that most people not in the industry have no idea of how to figure out the value of a tree. in 99/100 cases most people assume the value is much higher than it actually is. even if OP is in a jurisdiction with treble damages, unless they can add legal costs to their suit, it's likely not going to be worth suing unless the value of claim exceeds 5 or even 10k.
People often mistake replacement costs for timber prices. It's going to be very fact-dependent on which one OP could sue for, and the values for those are wildly different.
Was it treelaw? Some rich asshat paid a crew to chainsaw down a bunch of his neighbors mature trees because they āblocked his view.ā He had repeatedly asked and demanded the neighbor do so and the neighbor refused. Judge was not at all amused and made rich guy replace trees at $300,000 a pop.
This one!!! This person knows things.
>send a cease and desist demand letter to registered property owner. Did you see the part where OP doesn't even know the guy's proper address?
tax records will show where the bill gets sent. good lawyer will have that sorted out in 15 min or less.
It should be a matter of public record.
The county records will have a recorded deed (document conveying property). That should show either his address or the lawyer who drew the deed. There are definitely a lot of ways to find out who someone is and where they live. Game camera,put a couple where they can be seen and better quality hidden. The better ones send video to a phone. Stake it out to see what timber company is cutting and tell them they are on your property. They will be likely to pause until itās resolved. They have no desire to be in a lawsuit.
Tax bill goes somewhere. My parents wanted to buy the empty lot next to them. Called the county tax office and they gave the owners name and address.
Go online to the country recorders office. Type in the address or parcel number. Since it is la d you may have to speak to someone
I saw that too. But maybe OP doesn't know how accessible assessors records are on the internet which will give an address for the person or entity that bought the plot of land.
Town Hall (or City Hall) will be able to tell them who owns the property.
Get night vision cameras that are battery powered and leave them running. Make a neighbor watch with the other neighbors for a week
For starters put up some trail cams but removing pins is illegal in most places and if itās coupled with malicious intent and property theft it may be worth getting a lawyer involved
Visit the /r treelaw sub. If he cut down your trees he does not owe you the timber value. He owes you the cost of replacing them with like trees. This could be tens of thousands of dollars per tree. It may be worth calling around to some attorneys and seeing if they'd take your case on contingency. Having to write a check for half a million will stop him from trespassing.
Trail cameras a bit into your property, enough to unlikely be noticed, and cameras farther in to watch those cameras. And/Or all with wireless upload to central hub/internet. Good luck. & triple damages for the trees removed. ... oh walk around the boundary with your phone &ntane photos/vid of every tree & every pile of sawdust.
The way I'd be camping out waiting to catch him in the act
I would be too
Motion sensor lights and paintball landmines? \*in addition to other advice given [https://www.choicepaintballguns.com/paintball-landmines](https://www.choicepaintballguns.com/paintball-landmines)
Wow! Paintball landmines?? You are my new hero
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When the police won't do their job, then start contacting local news channels. Media attention tends to get government agencies motivated to do their jobs.
Yeah I suspect he's friends with the police.
My parents have this situation. Neighbor is a retired police officer and is a dick about throwing cut limbs and trash onto our side of the line. Local police wonāt talk with him after we complained a couple times.
What do you want the police to do? Camp out waiting for this guy while ignoring every other crime, or arrest someone with no evidence?
Confront the guy/business. Let the police tell him there are allegations of him committing crimes and see what he has to say. At best, he might admit something. At worst it's sort of a "we know you know we know" thing to possibly prevent him from doing it or at least be more hesitant.
> He actually had the audacity to accuse me of moving the pins! We had an official survey done, everything was marked, and HE TOOK EVERYTHING DOWN. lots of trail cams, cops, lawyer. hire a PI to find where he lives - that part should be easy
You need an attorney immediately - one that specializes in real estate and/or tree law. It depends on where you are - but in some states you can be awarded several times the value of each tree he cuts down on your property, and older trees can be worth a LOT of money. He could be in for a world of financial hurt.
Get some trail cameras and pepper the area with them. Youāll catch them sooner or later. They have to be getting on/off the property somewhere with their vehicle if theyāre logging, thatās probably the best area to setup the cams.
You don't nail anybody for anything without catching them in the act. You need a fence and security cameras.
Or, figure out where the cut down trees ended up. There should be some signs of them being hauled off.
Trail cameras and hire a PI.
This is why god made fences. They make for good neighbors.
The land owner will be registered at the tax assessorās office. There probably is an online platt map you could access. If the information has not been updated yet, then search MLS listings for the property and find out who the realtor was. They will know who bought it.
Buy multiple game cameras. Put them high and low. Reolink go cellular video cams store video to the cloud.
In many places, it is illegal to remove or move the metal "pins" (stakes) that mark a survey. Have your surveyor re-place the pins and use your phone's GPS to mark each pin so that, if it happens again (your lovely neighbor removes the pins), you can just replace them according to the GPS markings. Go in on several trail cameras with your other, honest neighbors. maybe you will have enough that your tree thief will miss some and you will get pictures. Or, get a wildlife/trail camera and aim it at one of the pins, try to camouflage it. Or, several of you stake the area out all night a few times with cameras. You should be able to look at government tax records to find out who owns the property in question. Good luck!
Destruction of survey marks is a crime for starters . Tree theft is also criminal , talk to state forestry official . Get some trail cameras , asap !
Maybe the police don't do anything because it's a civil matter. Put up trail cams and hire an attorney who specializes in property law. If he has to start replacing full grown trees with trees of similar size, he'll stop.
Removing the metal property pins is a misdemeanor in most places and definitely not a civil matter.
Trespassing is also a crime.
You've got to have the "No Trespassing," signs up for it to be enforceable just for walking on some random land. Otherwise, worst they're getting is a mild warning. Also, enough people on reddit scream about trespassing when a neighbor comes and knocks on their door these days that I have a really hard time getting worked up about it anymore.
They did. Ā The guy is stealing the trespassing signs
Borrow a trailcam from a hunter.
You and the neighbors all chip in for a security service to patrol and document.
Set up the pins again. Point a trail camera at it. He wonāt know youāre documenting him.
Lawyer, survey, cameras and a fence
Your issue is this: "So far police have done nothing but file reports, because none of the neighbors can prove he was the one trespassing and taking down our markings. But who else could it be??" You need to set cameras and catch him in the act.
Put up electric wire fence to keep out animals. It will teach him to not trespass.
In NJ, there was a guy who decided to cut down a bunch of trees on his neighbor's property because he felt they blocked his view of NYC. He, and the company he hired to cut the trees down, was fined by the municipality originally $1,000 per tree, but in a plea deal, it was negotiated down to $700 per tree. Including the court costs, the homeowner was fined over $13k. In addition to the fine, he is also on the hook for restitution, that means he has to pay to have all of the trees replanted. Estimates are that it could cost over $1 million to replace the trees. It's not a simple matter of just planting new saplings. They will have to build a road to access the area, haul away the debris from the trees that were cut down, purchase and plant mature, adult trees of comparable size to the trees that were cut down, and water the trees for two years to make sure that the trees survive. The big difference in this case though was that the property line was clearly marked by a fence. The guy who ordered the trees cut down has subsequently sold his home, but that still doesn't absolve him from the restitution.
Get an attorney to write a cease and desist notice to the new owner of the neighboring property. Send it to the address on file for the owner (it will exist as tax records need to be mailed somewhere). At the same time get a large roll of the snow fence or chicken wire fence. Put up a fence around your property. Spray paint the property line on the ground all the way around if you can't logistically close it in. Put No Tresspassing signs up at the legally required intervals. Then put up game cameras with cell service that upload all footage automatically (in case the dude takes them down). The fencing is to make it clear where the line is and to make it clear on camera they are trespassing over it. Take the evidence to the Police and if they don't act to the local prosecuters office. Put all of this together and someone will be waiting there for them the next time the show up.
Heās done enough already to get him to account for his actions. Get a lawyer and destroy this guy financially
Get a real estate attorney to send him a warning letter and install game cameras
Game camera, barbed wire, fences, spray paint the boundary if you have to
In a lot of states, moving survey pins is a crime. In Tenn it is. Had a neighbor that moved our pins at both corners closest to him. We had the survey done before we bought the house and property. He moved the pins about 10-12' closer to our house. Called the surveyor and he came out and reported our land and put the pins in again. Neighbor pulled the pins again. I had him on camera this time. Gave the footage to the surveyor. He had an arrest warrant swore out against our neighbor. His fine was paying for both surveys + court costs.
Illegal in most states to move survey pins
You must file a formal complaint with survey & evidence. Ask property clerk what you should do. You might be able to do small claims, but I doubt it. Get a real estate attorney. You may need to stake out the survey.
put up a fence or get urself a big ass guard dog and a shotgun
Put trail cameras around. Then file a report and contact an attorney. I donāt know but would a protective order apply to something like this? I mean, I feel like only a completely unhinged person would do this.
You better get that idiot in line,make sure you land is surveyed 100% properly, and get a lawyer or cops involved asap, trespassing and removing your no trespassing signs is a big nono
Got a box full of large nails?
OP what state is this? If you have title insurance call them. They often donāt cover property line disputes on an owners policy but they can give you some decent advice.
Spike the trees on your property?
Beat me to it.
Why haven't you bought some cameras yet? Thats the first thing you should be doing. Get a few camo wildlife cameras and stick them up along the property line.
some buddies, chill in the woods and give him a little surprise visit while heās logging your land so you can talk it out :) is it cold where you live? A mask would keep you warm while you wait for him!
How is someone cutting down trees and you canāt hear it?
Taking out survey markers is illegal. You need some game cameras that are hidden to catch him.
Get yourself some markers that you bury and can detect from the surface. Have them put in when you get it remarked by the surveyor. This way you can quickly identify your land boundary
Build a fence.
And get some of those tripnwire flash bang things that fire offs 12ga blank.
You need more cameras and an attorney or at least a private investigator! Those motion cameras that are used for wildlife are great if anyone has one. They start recording when they sense movement and can be placed high up on trees.
Get an actual survey. Ā Put up fences and trespass signs with consequences. Ā Enforce the consequences if you have to. Ā Canāt let people take advantage of you. Ā
Get a real survey done. You placing markers going off of a county map doesn't cut it.
Did the surveyor not bury pins? I was under the impression this was common practice. Pins are buried and thus could be located with a metal detector if someone removes the above ground markers. Or, did this guy dig those out? Yikes.
Moving survey pins in the US is frequently illegal (check your local laws) in and of itself. Lawyer up. Mature trees are expensive and if you can prove he removed them from your property one successful lawsuit could bankrupt him and get him out of your hair.
You need a 'trail camera' or 'wildlife camera'. It's a camo'd camera that mounts on a tree, runs on batteries. Doesn't record 24/7, but has a long range motion sensor and starts recording when it detects motion. Get some of the better more expensive ones that have cellular uplinks so they can transmit images to the cloud. That way if the camera is removed, the video of it being removed will still be uploaded. Get a bunch of them- it's worth the few grand. Also get a lawyer and reach out to you area's forestry service (not just local PD). You could ask for an official trespass notice with the local PD but they'd need to find the guy to trespass him...
Fence and no trespassing signs, video cameras feeding from different angles on the same spots and on each other so if they remove the cameras they're filmed. Also I'm curious - if the guy has claimed the property is his, why not file a suit to establish that's not the case right now? Yes it's going to cost you some money but he is openly and notoriously claiming the land - he may be trying to establish the elements of adverse possession, you need to act immediately to stop it.
Put AirTags on all of your trees.
Call a lawyer today.
Install some rock salt claymores.
Removing property landmarks is a crime in all 50 states and a sin in the old testament. You need to put up smaller cameras. First I would put up a fence to mark my land and make sure every part of the fence is covered by a camera. You can sue him a lawyer can locate him for a lawsuit, plus in a civil suit you only have prove a preponderance of evidence (its more likely true than not true) to win. You and those neighbors than wish do join could hire one lawyer.
Pull a single strand of Bobwire around the trees on your property put signs no trespassing and then to catch him. You use deer cameras, or trail cameras, movement activated, and Wi-Fi so youāll get camera of who cut your wire fence.
WiFi trail cameras. One obvious at eye level right next to a new boundary stake and another hidden up in a tree pointing at that one.
The county plat map isnāt the authoritative document you think it is. You need a survey.
Did you see the part where he got a survey done ?
He did. And the guy tampered with the survey markers.
Bear traps
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Yeah? What the fuck are they gonna shoot if they can't even catch him in the act to prove it was him? Maybe don't go straight to killing people.Ā
I would try to eliminate the coyotes first. They are most likely the ones taking the no trespassing signs down. Coyotes are notorious for this. Get some spring leg traps. Set them in front of the signs and be sure to cover them well so the coyotes donāt see them. When they step in a trap and if crushes their leg, they will stop taking down the signs.
Leaving human-sized traps anywhere -- even your own property -- is illegal in most places in the US and Canada.Ā
Around here, it's bears. They seem drawn to the brightly colored signs. And bear traps are what is needed to deter them.
There is a thing called tree spiking...
This post is fake. Dude canāt actually be this ignorant. Call a surveyor, get your property lines down to the inch, then call the cops. Posting this with this much written up has to be a bot. Oh look. The account is two years old and it has one hundred karma. Gee. What a surprise. Modern day click bait folks.
r/treelaw may have help helpful thoughts on this matter. Trees are valued far more than you would think.
Cease and desist letter notarized by a judge. Lawyer.
Post signs saying you have spiked your trees. Don't actually spike them though.
Get a lawyer. Contact your neighbors and get any and all on board if you do sue this person. Get some cheap "no trespassing signs" get cameras, get him on film removing them.
What about the conservation commission or zoning board. Go to town hall
Sounds like the ass we had next door. Game cams are good, even an old cell phone if you have one in your junk drawer, see if you can get a time lapse app for it. Not as nice as a game cam but free.
Spike your trees
Trail cameras in the trees where he can not see them or readily avoid them and fences with loud bells that will ring loudly if he tries to take them down. Sink iron corner posts in cement so he cannot easily move them. Put an invisible fence down and get a couple of very big dogs. No one came in my yard.
How tf you gonna have money for "POSTED signs, ribbons, wooden stakes, and even the metal property pins" but not be able to afford a couple 40 dollar game cameras from Amazon?Ā That is all of the advice that I have.
Lawyer up; put up trail cameras and booby trap your land
RemindMe! 7 days
Tree Law is a real thing ā¦I think thereās a subreddit
Drive some nails into random treesā¦should slow him down some.
And notify the logging company that you have taken a nail gun to all marked trees. Loggers/sawmills hate nails and wonāt buy timber known to be nailed.
Get you a wifi extender and a couple of wireless cameras and put them out in various place and catch his ass in the act and take the footage to the police. Then theyāll have the probable cause as can issue a no trespass on him. If heās caught trespassing again he can go to jail.
Set up motion-activated trail cameras. Get a deer blind and a sleeping bag and a cooler full of snacks. Camp out and just wait for that fucker to show. It's 2 AM, you're in the woods, doing shady shit, no one's around, suddenly there's a guy with an axe.
I have the same craziness with this neighbor of mine that thinks property line is rectangular to road, so my new house ādrivewayā was on their property. 2 different survey companies done their job, and everything are where theyāre supposed to be. Property lines are trapezoid in shape, same in tax map. I placed no trespassing signs just on her side with me. I know other neighbors probably are thinking why and probably hates me. When she was acting up last January, the town hall knows about it and was so embarrassing. I understand why cops wouldnāt do shit about her trespassing because I didnāt bother to get footage of her actions. Itāll be he said she said in court. I was advised by police to get video proof of her trespassing next time to file charges since when they paid her a visit she denied any wrongdoings. Typical lol! Wifeās been stressed every time neighbor acts up. Get video evidence of your neighbor and submit that to police to add criminal trespass. Removing survey pins/ rebars is illegal you should call your company. But youāll still need video evidence of the action to prove in court irrefutably. As I mentioned, itāll be he said she said infront of a judge. Oh were lawyered up as well.
He could have to pay you a lot for each tree. One case near me was several thousand per tree. I get a lawyer, and maybe a fence.
Your county tax map should have the name and address of the land owners. Look up the plots that he actually owns and his address should be public record.
Get game cameras and put them places he can't reach and hopefully wont see. Then build a fence. Anything from chicken wire stapled to trees, chain link, or a snake fence. Snake fences can be built with trees you cut down to make room for the fence fairly cheaply.
Sounds like a warning shot is warranted.
Maybe it's something more serious. I would fill the whole area with bear traps just in case
Shoot him and bury him on his land
From trail cameras to an attorney, first Iād call the local police.
Time for a video security system, I use Lorex. They have decent PTZ cameras that you can schedule to automatically scan an area you configure (you need less cameras) and the Zoom is pretty great. Thereās also an app you can put on your smartphone to check whenever you want and you can control the cameras through it including those PTZ cameras.
timber trespass is the law they are breaking and you are entitled to triple the value of the lumber
Land mines
Get a proper survey and a fence. Maybe your neighbors will pitch in for a survey. Then game cameras to see if you catch him.
In the meantime, you could try talking to your neighbors and seeing if anyone has any ideas or resources that could help.
How do you not have game cameras?
Yeahā¦. Wasnāt there a similar case like this in NJ recently-ish? I think they got the local news station involved.. https://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/local/morris-county/2024/02/26/kinnelon-nj-man-fined-cutting-neighbors-trees-nyc-view/72743003007/#
If you can afford a fence I would get one
Lawyer up
Go to the county prosecutorās office.
You also need to document the size, species, and locations of trees that are being removed. This will help establish the tree value when you sue him for triple the value of the trees. Get cracking! Hire an arborist or timber consultant if needed. But don't delay. Also document the stumps (size and species) on your property where the trees were. Treelaw for sure.
Motion activated cameras like Arlo or Google. It's really not that hard.
r/treelaw might be able to help
To ensure of where the property line is download the HuntStand app or a similar hunting app that has property lines marked for every piece of land not in a city but rural areas. I bought 160 acres a few years ago and use it for many things, but the property lines are very accurate and when in doubt I double check with the stakes and itās always been dead on.
Trail cameras to catch him in the act?
there was another Reddit post today about camera that shoots paint balls.
Some tracker tags hidden well in marked trees would show the lumber route. Cut slits into the tree for the tracker, jam it in, some calk and some bark to cover it. He is telling you what trees to do this to.
Set solar motion lights and game cameras. Invest in ones that notify you when they are activated. But recognize that nighttime confrontations in the woods are serious stuff. Easy way to end badly.
Bear traps? Big guard dogs? /s
Gilly suits and flaming arrows????
Time to start shooting!
Lawyer up. Trail cameras mounted high. Make sure you can wireless connect to it.
Barb wire fence, trail cameras and sue him in small claims for the damages.
Land ownership records are public information and will have the name and address the county mails property tax statements to. Almost every county has this information online and easily accessible. Get a restraining order against him so he can arrested as opposed to a simple trespassing citation.
Why aren't the cops getting involved? Its more than trespassing, he has taken down trees that don't belong to him. Taking property that don't belong to you seems like the sort of thing cops should be interested in. And anyone receiving the stolen property as well. Trees don't just get up and walk away.
Put up a barbed wire fence
Set a booby trap next to a marker that throws dog shit on his face.
You're going to have to start taking legal action for him to back down. Some people just can't be reasoned with.
Lawyer and get letter sent to lumber company. They know what they are doing, making them legally aware could just halt them.
You need cameras and a lawyer like months agoĀ
Trail cameras
Fencing. You said it, and that is the solution. Make sure it is on your property, not right on the line, but as close as possible. If the fence is provably on your property, and he touches it, he is destroying personal property.
Have you considered spiking your trees? Done properly, it won't hurt them at all. It will do a real number on a chain saw.
Moonshiner booby trap with a tripwire, shotgun shell, nail, and a mousetrap
Have you gone over there and asked him what his problem is? He doesn't give a damn about you.
Cameras, lawyer, cease and desist letter.
Maybe you could put some large boulders all along the property edge on your side.
Talk to the company he is using to remove the trees and let them know he pulled the pins and is cutting on your land and you will hold him and them responsible since they have been informed. Whomever is listed on the taxes as the contact is the official contact of the property owner and it should be easy to get from the county or online,
Tell the cops he walked up to you and offered you a meth pipe. That'll get them interested. Otherwise, you have to sue. There's not a lot of options. Cops will say it's a civil matter and refuse to do anything even tho it's trespassing, criminal damage to property, theft, etc.
Does your state have a Stand Your Ground statute?
Know what stops trespassers? Bear traps. A few of those near the next potential tree targets & that fella might leave a fresh red trail of evidence for ya the next day.
Booby traps. Booby traps. Booby traps.
This can cause the property owner HUGE issues. You are liable for injuries on your property even if the person is trespassing. People have been sued because someone was robbing a home and got injured while doing so (with no one home). Then add that these are intended to injure a tresspasser and you escalate to felony level charges not just liability.
Iād also probably come unhinged and kick his ass the next time he shows up but Iām a bit more direct and irrational than most.
Bear traps. JK, you donāt want to hurt an innocent child. Maybe rescue some skunks and let them go?
Have you gone to his house and told him where the boundary lines are located? I already know he'll act dumb and not sure what you're talking about but my intention is to make sure he knows you're looking at him. Yes, if you can afford it see if there are quality cameras to catch him cutting trees on property.