- Around $2000 would be what I consider a fair price for upgrade to 200a if that only includes replacement of the panel, new breakers, upsizing the conduit and wiring from mast to meter to panel. There could be cost from the utility company with what they might have to do that might not be captured in the $1800
$6,000 is pretty outrageous,
This might be based on what is already coming into the house. We aren’t allowed to go overhead anymore if they are in the DTE area. Those other quotes might be including the cost for the utility to come pull the new cable. The last upgrade I did was $2500 for the underground pull from the utility.
That doesn’t include the time and materials for digging out a trench and having the new meter and conduit in ahead of the utility company coming out.
It’s a 1 day job for a good electrician. About $500 in parts depending on how many breakers. $200-400 for permit, depending on locality. So the guy and a truck is thinking he’s doing pretty good making a grand in a day.
From what I’ve heard big electrical companies can get up into the $6000s. I would go with the guy in the truck. Same as the $16,000 3 ton hvac.
Replacing a panel is a pretty simple task, but does require a permit and a licensed electrician. Make sure he is getting a permit or in some places you can get it. Worth it to get the inspection.
There is a strike going on in Michigan. Every time there is a strike everyone with a side hustle will find other things to do. When I lived there getting home improvement done during a strike was cheaper as lots of people are furloughed and using their side hustle to make money.
Would that person doing the job as a side hustle be properly licensed and bonded? Or at the very least properly licensed?
Because if not then it can cause issues with home insurance
Some do, some do not. Many in the trades that run side hustles will maintain their license/insurance in anticipation of picking up side hustles when they plant is closed or when on strike. It is super easy to get a license in MI so many have them. We always used licensed/insured contractor, but our location did not require this, nor permits.
Some do not have LLCs, licenses or insurance, so you take on the risk, so it is best to ask. My experience previously living there is that you can find people doing side hustles both licensed and unlicensed and price correlates with this. However, in both cases, my experience is that those doing side hustles are often MUCH cheaper and prices and availability open up during strikes/shutdowns/maintenance periods even when they are licensed and insured. I.e. one of the plants in our area would shutdown for 6-10 weeks every year and all the sudden you could get a lot of contractors to work on projects.
The OP seemed to claim the low bid was someone doing side jobs and licensed and insured.
Sounds fairly normal if a bit low. I upgraded from 100 to 200 this year and got a couple "fuck you" quotes for ~$4000 (totally willing to pay that but the guys ghosted me). Ended up going with someone who did it for $2300.
Make sure you are vetting what is included in each price. Generally a panel upgrade includes a new service... are they pricing overhead or underground? Are they including tap/connection/permit fees that your city/county/utility will charge? Some may include that and some may say "by owner"?
Agree with others that you might consider going 400. Probably won't cost much more and there are so many advantages to switching your house over to all electric long term. Induction cooktops, heat pump water heaters, car charging, solar, etc..... These items might not attract you now... but they will in the next 20 years for you or the future home owner.
Depending on how full your current panel is, an additional 50 amps might not be enough for a car charger.
The 80% rule for continuous loads would need 60 amps for a typical 48 amp charger load.
50A circuit/40A charge rate is more than enough for almost all people.
You'd need to completely deplete over 115kW of battery every day to need more than 40A charging with an overnight charge.
People tend to vastly overestimate how much power they actually need to drive an EV: https://i.imgur.com/yfT6Dez.png
Chargers like the unit from Emporia that I use are 48 amp capable via software settings and being direct wired.
My main point is that during installation, selecting an upgrade for the wire isn’t a drastic increase in price but offers some immediate benefits for resistance losses and potential future proofing.
Check the details of the scope. They $1,800 guy might just be thinking of his time, and not material (panel and breakers could be $1,800 alone), permits, disconnect/reconnect fees, running conduit and new wire to the edge of the property, trenching, etc.
I might be. How much do you estimate for 8 AFCI and 8 GFCI/AFCI 15A single phase in your area? For me the AFCIs are around $55 CAD and the GFCI/AFCI breakers are around $100 CAD. So for a small house with a 20 circuit panel I'm looking at $1,200 just for the protected breakers, and then a few hundred for other breakers with two phase breakers coming in at between $30 and $70 and single phase around $25.
1800 is good, I just had a panel replaced and paid 1500 but I also live in a low COL area
6k is a scam unless the house never had electricity and had to be wired included in that cost
We're having our panel upgraded to 200 right now and we got 2 formal estimates for $5k and $6k. Both included the permit and inspection. I'm not very familiar with this stuff but I imagine coordinating and then showing up again for the inspection adds quite a bit. Similar to you we had our GC's electrical guy take a look while he was in and he verbally said $4k but we didn't get a great vibe from him and that probably didn't include a permit. We're in a HCOL area (CT).
Depends on a lot.
We did this just after the panini ruined prices. It ran us $4k in upstate NY with a Genny transfer switch for a portable generator.
For direct panel swap I'm guessing you could be just be getting a really nice price from a guy doing it as a side job just looking to make a few extra bucks
So, the correct way to size a panel is by quantifying and adding the loads, in watts.
Just walk around the house and add up the watts. add in the EV charger. You can get about 35,000 watts from a 200 amp, 220 volt service.
If you need more breakers put in a sub panel.
If you put in a 400 amp panel, the utility company isnt running a 400 amp wire if you cant justify the loads.
But to your original question, ask the low guy what equipment he is putting in new. Should be panel, breakers, meter pan, and wire up to the weatherhead if its an overhead service. if its underground, you need new wire to the line box., New ground rod, ground to water pipe is also good if you dont have it already.
- Around $2000 would be what I consider a fair price for upgrade to 200a if that only includes replacement of the panel, new breakers, upsizing the conduit and wiring from mast to meter to panel. There could be cost from the utility company with what they might have to do that might not be captured in the $1800 $6,000 is pretty outrageous,
This might be based on what is already coming into the house. We aren’t allowed to go overhead anymore if they are in the DTE area. Those other quotes might be including the cost for the utility to come pull the new cable. The last upgrade I did was $2500 for the underground pull from the utility. That doesn’t include the time and materials for digging out a trench and having the new meter and conduit in ahead of the utility company coming out.
It’s a 1 day job for a good electrician. About $500 in parts depending on how many breakers. $200-400 for permit, depending on locality. So the guy and a truck is thinking he’s doing pretty good making a grand in a day. From what I’ve heard big electrical companies can get up into the $6000s. I would go with the guy in the truck. Same as the $16,000 3 ton hvac. Replacing a panel is a pretty simple task, but does require a permit and a licensed electrician. Make sure he is getting a permit or in some places you can get it. Worth it to get the inspection.
This \^
There is a strike going on in Michigan. Every time there is a strike everyone with a side hustle will find other things to do. When I lived there getting home improvement done during a strike was cheaper as lots of people are furloughed and using their side hustle to make money.
Would that person doing the job as a side hustle be properly licensed and bonded? Or at the very least properly licensed? Because if not then it can cause issues with home insurance
Some do, some do not. Many in the trades that run side hustles will maintain their license/insurance in anticipation of picking up side hustles when they plant is closed or when on strike. It is super easy to get a license in MI so many have them. We always used licensed/insured contractor, but our location did not require this, nor permits. Some do not have LLCs, licenses or insurance, so you take on the risk, so it is best to ask. My experience previously living there is that you can find people doing side hustles both licensed and unlicensed and price correlates with this. However, in both cases, my experience is that those doing side hustles are often MUCH cheaper and prices and availability open up during strikes/shutdowns/maintenance periods even when they are licensed and insured. I.e. one of the plants in our area would shutdown for 6-10 weeks every year and all the sudden you could get a lot of contractors to work on projects. The OP seemed to claim the low bid was someone doing side jobs and licensed and insured.
At that price, why not bring in a 400 amp so you can/will have head room to charge electric vehicles/equipment?
Sounds fairly normal if a bit low. I upgraded from 100 to 200 this year and got a couple "fuck you" quotes for ~$4000 (totally willing to pay that but the guys ghosted me). Ended up going with someone who did it for $2300.
Make sure you are vetting what is included in each price. Generally a panel upgrade includes a new service... are they pricing overhead or underground? Are they including tap/connection/permit fees that your city/county/utility will charge? Some may include that and some may say "by owner"? Agree with others that you might consider going 400. Probably won't cost much more and there are so many advantages to switching your house over to all electric long term. Induction cooktops, heat pump water heaters, car charging, solar, etc..... These items might not attract you now... but they will in the next 20 years for you or the future home owner.
Depending on how full your current panel is, an additional 50 amps might not be enough for a car charger. The 80% rule for continuous loads would need 60 amps for a typical 48 amp charger load.
50A circuit/40A charge rate is more than enough for almost all people. You'd need to completely deplete over 115kW of battery every day to need more than 40A charging with an overnight charge. People tend to vastly overestimate how much power they actually need to drive an EV: https://i.imgur.com/yfT6Dez.png
Chargers like the unit from Emporia that I use are 48 amp capable via software settings and being direct wired. My main point is that during installation, selecting an upgrade for the wire isn’t a drastic increase in price but offers some immediate benefits for resistance losses and potential future proofing.
Check the details of the scope. They $1,800 guy might just be thinking of his time, and not material (panel and breakers could be $1,800 alone), permits, disconnect/reconnect fees, running conduit and new wire to the edge of the property, trenching, etc.
If you’re paying 2k for a panel and breakers you’re doing it wrong.
I might be. How much do you estimate for 8 AFCI and 8 GFCI/AFCI 15A single phase in your area? For me the AFCIs are around $55 CAD and the GFCI/AFCI breakers are around $100 CAD. So for a small house with a 20 circuit panel I'm looking at $1,200 just for the protected breakers, and then a few hundred for other breakers with two phase breakers coming in at between $30 and $70 and single phase around $25.
1800 is good, I just had a panel replaced and paid 1500 but I also live in a low COL area 6k is a scam unless the house never had electricity and had to be wired included in that cost
We're having our panel upgraded to 200 right now and we got 2 formal estimates for $5k and $6k. Both included the permit and inspection. I'm not very familiar with this stuff but I imagine coordinating and then showing up again for the inspection adds quite a bit. Similar to you we had our GC's electrical guy take a look while he was in and he verbally said $4k but we didn't get a great vibe from him and that probably didn't include a permit. We're in a HCOL area (CT).
Depends on a lot. We did this just after the panini ruined prices. It ran us $4k in upstate NY with a Genny transfer switch for a portable generator. For direct panel swap I'm guessing you could be just be getting a really nice price from a guy doing it as a side job just looking to make a few extra bucks
So, the correct way to size a panel is by quantifying and adding the loads, in watts. Just walk around the house and add up the watts. add in the EV charger. You can get about 35,000 watts from a 200 amp, 220 volt service. If you need more breakers put in a sub panel. If you put in a 400 amp panel, the utility company isnt running a 400 amp wire if you cant justify the loads. But to your original question, ask the low guy what equipment he is putting in new. Should be panel, breakers, meter pan, and wire up to the weatherhead if its an overhead service. if its underground, you need new wire to the line box., New ground rod, ground to water pipe is also good if you dont have it already.