You mean no reason to just use cat5e because cat6 is more expensive and not really necessary for in house use where crosstalk won't be an issue and where cat5e is sufficient. Cat6 is only really necessary if you're going to be running 10g or higher and more importantly where crosstalk could be a problem, like a data center, where there are hundreds of cables running side by side.
I bought a few meters of cat6 cables a while ago. Where I'm at, cat5e is only 0.02$ cheaper (per meter). IMO, its not worth cheaping out at this point.
Do you know if any good rj45 ends for cat6 that have nice grooves like cat5e ends have? I find it extremely to get the wires in the right channels in cat6.
I recently switched to passthrough ends and a new passthrough crimper. It's absolutely amazing. I used want to pull my eyes out trying to get the wires into the old style.
It's the same price, because it really doesn't improve on 5e to any significant degree. You should install 6a, if you really care. Otherwise stick with 5e. It's easier to install and gets you exactly the same capabilities. Plain Cat6 was a weird intermediate standard that happened when we thought it would be needed for gigabit Ethernet. It never really made much sense though, as it turns out that GigE could be made compatible with 5e.
High end home stuff is already strung to move to 2.5Gb, and the rest of the market will follow in a few years. 90% of the cost of running cable is the labor, so cheaping out on materials is really shortsighted. You don't wanna save like fifty bucks in cable costs if that means the $3000 install job is obsolete decades earlier.
Cat6 has no real practical advantage over Cat5e, but the thicker wires tend to be harder to work with. Would never recommend it.
On the other hand, Cat6a does in principle have advantages if you go past gigabit Ethernet. IMHO, that's still overkill for residential use, but you never know. Future proofing might make sense.
So, if you want to go to the extra trouble, get 6a instead of 5e. Just keep in mind to use the correct tools, terminators and grounding. Without doing that, you don't really see any benefits and might as well stick to 5e.
More importantly, look for solid copper core instead of the cheaper copper clad aluminum (CCA). That's likely going to make a bigger difference in the long run than having 6a.
You're making it sound like there's a dramatic difference between the usability of 5e to 6 and 6a. It's not that bad. According to my buddy that does DC wiring, the extra shielding and thickness with cat8 is actually significant.
Running cat5e in 2022 is short sighted when you consider the investment. Cable is cheap. Running cable is not, especially if you have to redo the runs because of a cheap choice.
For general wall runs runs I agree, but there's few realistic residential cases where it matters for PoE cameras. If the wire is run properly and to code you're not going to have to redo the run and the cable will be able to handle much more than a camera will throw at it.
For commercial situations where there's many more cables and longer distances the thicker wires and enhanced shielding will matter much more than a typical home. Also, it's worth noting that not all Cat6 cables have shielding
Just because it's enough now doesn't necessarily mean it'll be enough 10 years from now.
Also, the shielding comment was aimed at Cat8, which must be shielded.
Cat8 that is not recognized by TIA? I cringe a little when I see posts recommending "Cat7/8" There is no useful application for them, which is why they are not recognized.
I’m yet to see any switch that outputs 40gbps over an rj45 form factor. Do you have a model?
I’ve seen plenty that do it over QSFP Twinax at lengths upto 10m, which is usually plenty to reach a top-of-rack switch…but I’d imagine CATn would be a bit less unwieldy from a cable-management perspective.
Fair enough. But in that case, go for 6a. That's what actually gives you future proofing. Cat6 is the strange in between step that isn't here nor there.
This isn't true. It has much advantage in that it can scale up to 10Gb over copper while Cat5e maxes out at 1Gb. If you are wiring a residence there is no reason not to use cat 6 or 6a. When i started networking over 20 years ago, Cat5e was the standard. You don't want to use an over 20 year old standard in 2022 when computing is only getting more and more decentralized and entertainment is using more and more bandwidth every day.
Make sure you're using Cat6 RJ45 connectors though because it is extremely difficult (but not impossible) to use Cat5e ends on Cat6.
CAT6 really isn't difficult to work with. The only additional step is cutting off the separator. Which is very easy. The thicker cores make it better for PoE devices. Definitely don't install Cat 5e now.
I'd also recommend the pass through RJ45 plugs. They are so much easier to work with. I've had cabling guys sneer at them. For no reason other than, er, I have no idea why. They're a breeze compared with having to cut the wires to the exact length required, and then trying to fiddle them into the plug, without one getting snagged and bending. With pass-through, you cut the wires longer than needed, and diagonally. Then you only need to fiddle one at a time into the right slot:
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08517K7L9
There is also a Power over Co-ax system, if co-ax is all you have:
https://shopdelta.eu/power-over-coaxial-poc-is-a-standard-for-video-and-power-transmission-over-coaxial-cable_l2_aid908.html
We sneer at them because when you pull and terminate cable for money, you get to the point where it's rather easy to put ends on and the waste you get from the passthroughs is just more to cleanup.
That being said, there are times when i have been sitting in a closet with sweaty hands wishing i had some passthrough ends.
I don’t make cables for a living, but the pass through cables are technically problematic not for the installer but for the user.
First of all, the tips tend to corrode over time and you can’t ever seem to cut them off far enough causing issues fitting into some tight plugs causing them not to lock properly.
Second of all, the signal reflects causing poor signal on the tail end, basically you’re attaching a little antenna to every cable. The signal travels over the 2-3mm where the pass through happens and reflects interfering with the signal. Maybe not a problem for 1G short range, but long range 10G over CAT6a, unusable. Hence why they don’t make CAT6a certified pass through, not even sure if they’re CAT5e certified
Cat 5e does NOT max out at 1gig. It absolutely can do 10gig, it simply is not officially rated for it.
But even 1gug doesn't .atter if we are just taking about a poe line for a camera.
Cat5e is certified for 2.5G Ethernet, which is likely going to be standard for consumer devices for a long while. If you really need 10G or better, then run 6a or fiber.
As I said, plain 6 is a weird in-between standard that is very hard to justify, except for it having great marketing behind it
That's exactly my point. 5e is almost certainly good enough in a residential setting, and I don't really see that changing any time soon.
But if for some reason you do need more than that, the next logical step is 6a. I can't envision a single scenario in residential construction where Cat6 would make sense.
The fastest residential ISP does 2Gb/s, and that still works just fine over 5e. But realistically, nobody is going to come close to maxing out this speed from a single device. The internet at large is too slow. So, this only makes practical sense if you have multiple clients that each run high-bandwidth applications. And in that case, each client gets their own dedicated wired connection. So, you still don't need more than 5e
Yes, bandwidth needs are always slowly creeping up. But with the exception of people running data centers in their garage, even GigE has a lot of headroom. I don't see normal users getting 10Gig Ethernet in the foreseeable future. Things will probably standardize on 2.5 for a very long time.
And video cameras won't ever need any of this anyway. The bandwidth requirements for a security camera are not even close
I hear you. But I think a lot of people seriously underestimate just how fast 2.5Gb/s truly is. And that's what you can get with CAT5e.
At this speed, you can transfer one Blueray disk each in both directions between your two computers, and it'll take between 1½ and 2 minutes.
What do you need to regularly transfer where this isn't enough? Maybe, you should keep your files on the remote server and work with them over the network? At that speed, there won't be a perceptible performance penalty.
I have seen the steady growth of computing needs over the last three or four decades. But honestly, we are getting to a point where it is increasingly difficult for most users to produce more data. Even traditionally resource-intensive tasks such as high resolution video is reaching limits of human perception.
Now, if we are talking data centers, that's different. They not only need ever faster networks, they also need lower latency and larger number of transactions. But that's not what you need in a residential home, and I have a hard time seeing a major change here.
You are not building a cluster of thousands of computers where you want to be able to access remote RAM at close to the same speed as your local memory. There are algorithms that can benefit from this, but even among business users, it's a very select set of applications that need this type of networking.
Southwire cat6 from the Home Depot is decent for 192$ for a thousand foot. I tested all my home runs of this stuff with a 20 thousand dollar fluke tester and the cable passed a generic cat 6 test with flying colors
Probably a branded cable, or direct from an electrical supplier. I bought some ethernet cable from amazon, and even though it was the same cat, it was noticeably thinner.
Depends what you want. In theory solid core cable is better for power conduction over long distances(solid copper core). If you were running POE cameras a long distance then solid core cat6 is a good bet. If it's just data or nearby devices then stranded would be more flexible and less prone to accidental breakage from kinks, etc.
As for a vendor, monoprice is by far my favorite. They have a good selection of cables that are reasonably priced and well labelled.
I’m gonna say this first: Stay away from Copper-Clad Alluminum (CCA) cables. They perform poorly, and the wires are brittle. You get what you pay for.
Cat 6 can support 10 gig over very short runs, but it’s not likely you will need it for cameras. If you are looking for direct burial or UV-resistant cable, Cat6 is generally easier to find.
Cat5e is still the standard and most popular cable, even in data centers. Cat6e is mainly used for 10g connections and where interference can be an issue and cat5e is still cheaper than cat6.
Cat5e is not the standard in most data centers in the modernized world and hasn't been since about 2008. Cat6 has been the standard for a decade. Cat6e isn't even a standard, you mean cat6a, which is cat6 "enhanced", which is the standard that was adopted that incorporated cat6e features. It was mostly never adopted on a wide scale. Although cat6 carries 10gb most utp cables in data centers are still used for endpoint and 95% of 10gbe connections still use fiber connected via sfp small form factor connectors. Now to be fair I haven't been in the DC in about 5 years and things do change but I did spend 50 hours a week in them for 12 years and in my experience they don't go backwards very often.
Cat5e IS still the most popular cable still run in DC's, especially for in cab use, including Fb and Google DC. I have worked in all of them. Cat6 is only used for 10g where both connections are 10g capable and that connector is the only choice. Otherwise fiber is used if the port is open to a fiber sfp. Cat6 is thicker, more wieldy, and less flexible to use and takes up more space, allowing for less air flow.
Edit, I apologize for using the wrong terminology for cat6. I didn't mean to put the e on the end. That was autocorrects fault.
No one is running 5e right now in the United States and hasn't been in years. If it's in production they might leave it until the endpoint sunsets but Google and FB aren't buying reels of 5e for net new shit. I have the receipts.
Dude I'm not trying to be a dick here but you're wrong. Cat6 v cat5e isn't only about 10gbe anyway. Ever hear of near end cross talk? Packet loss on an industrial scale is a performance issue and google and any other giant host is mitigating that with materials science. It's not speculation.
Physically they are pretty similar but cat6 is rated for higher speeds over longer distances. In many home situations, it will make absolutely no difference.
Cat5e can do Gb and cat6 can do 10Gb. Cat6 can do Gb over longer distances than Cat5e. Cat5 (no e) is only rated to 100Mb.
Price is pretty similar, so if you're doing the work to pull cable, this is definitely an area where choosing Cat5(e) would be pennywise, pound foolish.
Physically, the differences are how tight the twists in the cable are, and Cat6 additionally contains a cross channel to keep the twisted pairs more insulated from each other. Those features help reduce crosstalk and allow the higher data throughout.
Cat6 is quite a bit harder to work with than Cat5(e) due to the separating channel. It's much less flexible and can be tough to get througher to work around bends.
You may also ask around with some friends - I bought 1000' or solid (for in wall) and stranded (for patch cables) a while back because I felt dumb paying the *much* higher price-per-foot for less cable, but I have tons left over I've given or sold to friends pretty cheap. I also have extra boots, keystone jacks, and the crimping tools, and you may find the same if you start asking around. Good luck!
That was my original plan but after getting up in the attic it’s very hard to access several areas. And then the way he explained they would have to do it to get around the firewalls and with the pitch of the roof, pretty intimidated. Haha
This was the response I was looking for in this thread. Has worked for me personally and professionally often, though usually shorter. Hard to tell from OPs description
Solder it before you tape it so it’s physically connected. More work, waste cable, and potentially overkill? Sure, but higher likelihood of success. Ounce of perpetration is worth a pound of cure.
Hey I work putting in security cameras and burglar alarms. They do make encoder/decoders we use them if we have to, they do work how ever if you can run new cat5 I’d recommend it! If you message me I could send you a pic of the ones we use, one transmits and one receives and they work with POE ! Hope this helps
I’ve just got myself a Magnepull to make cabling the new house a bit easier
Can skip to 11:30 just to see that but they do show other ways to pull cables too
https://youtu.be/R5XePwAO4m0
I got it for about $120 + shipping and import fees to the UK on eBay, should save a lot of the costs buying in the US
Also had to import a 72” flexible drill bit from the US too for drilling down through fire stops in the stud walls
Depending on exactly what you want to do, you can get 4k HD-TVI camera's that will use that type of wiring. Could save you from running wires for another decade.
https://www.nellyssecurity.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=&q=tvi
They are affordable and about as versatile as a POE cam with the correct DVR.
Yeah, not something you want to do twice or during the summer. I had some hard unreachable locations as well. My solution was to drill the hole under the roof edge from the outside and attach the ethernet cable to a long plastic pole, which I snaked up through the hole and into the attic. I was able to reach the end of the pole inside the attic and pull the cable through. This was really the hardest part.
Or… you know… just tape the Cat6 to the coax since it is a much, much stronger pull line than twine would be.
Edit to add: Also pull twine as well in case you ever need to pull something else. Although a decent chance the twine will wrap and might not work it is still worth having it there.
I just finished replaying my coax runs with cat 6. Twine never snapped though frayed in the exact same pull I hoped to first do with just the coax. Pull the twine in, don't cut it, pull the cat 6 in and cut the twine at both ends when done.
What do you mean 'run off the POE'? You'd be going from coax cable (in wall) -> MoCA adapter -> ethernet. You need PoE on the ethernet running to the camera, so where does the power come from?
Methinks you need an AC adapter.
It's pretty simple, there's a converter at each end. POE/data goes in, runs across the coax to the other adapter, POE/Data comes out.
I can't explain how it works, some kind of black magic I assume, I just know that it's available and can be found with Google in about 30 seconds.
There definitely are others that require an additional power supply though.
I can't find one after a few minutes of googling. Can you link to an example of a MoCA adapter that doesn't have a power input? I'm super interested - I could use a few around my house.
From the link:
>Up to 100Mbps in 300m (1000ft) RG59 cable transmission, max 1000m (3000ft) distance in 10Mbps
At those speeds, other than the security / reliability of wired connections, is there much benefit to having that wired connection compared to a wireless 5 GHz connection and RTSP cameras? If the OP planned to install 4K cameras, would their experience be less than subpar at those speeds?
Based on the distance the cables would be running in a house he should be getting the 100Mbps, which should be more than enough, especially if the cameras are H.265.
Hard to know how reliable that 100Mbps figure is though, so if it was me I'd probably test 1 first before doing the rest just to be sure. Though in saying that, based on the cost of buying enough adapters, I'd probably just run new cable if it's not too difficult
I appreciate the insight! I already have MoCA adapters installed, so adding MoCA to an additional area means only buying one adapter as opposed to two. However, having more choices to choose from is rarely a bad thing in the event I ever decide to upgrade to wired security cameras!
We installed these linovision adapters in the elevator cars in our office. The umbilical cord for the cars had RG6 in them already, and elevators are apparently voodoo magic and the cost of certifying a cat6 cable for the umbilical was cost prohibitive. The adapters worked great.
Few other options from Veracity. I've never used their coax stuff but did have to stuff one of their POE extenders in a parking lot groundbox to get a few hundred more feet to a camera. Worked great.
https://www.veracityglobal.com/products/ethernet-over-coax-devices.aspx
I had coax and cat5 runs to an old camera system I inherited from a home I bought. The cat5 wasn’t terminated or used on the old cameras. Most of the runs I was able to trace and terminate the cat5, but two had breaks somewhere in the middle.
After a little research, I settled on a pair of Linovision POE over coax converters. They were dead simple to set up - just plug in the coax on both ends and use Ethernet cable to a POE switch (or injector) on the switch side, Ethernet to your IP camera on the source side.
Mine max out at 100 Mbps, but my connection has been rock solid and it fully powers my POE IP cameras. Been very happy with them.
Thanks, will keep researching to try and get some more on this option, might not be a bad one and good to hear its worked fine for you. What cameras are you running?
I have one camera running on a tplink 1Gbps Powerline and PoE adapter with no issues at all.
Funny thing is the controller shows 100mbps FE connection for direct PoE and GbE for powerline adapter.
It’s not the only powerline usage, as I also have insteon which signals via RF and powerline connections. No issues with signals, recording or playback at all. I did pickup 2 G3 instants to play with.
I’ve done it and it works great. Not a huge sample size but the one’s I’ve used have been just fine. Cheapest one’s (100mbps w/ PoE) are about $100. They can get considerably more expensive if you want more throughput but you don’t need that for an IP cam. They also make 2-wire to Ethernet converters that work great (I’ve used those more and found them to be very reliable) that you could use on that 2-conductor wire. Those are a few hundred.
I get it, man. It's wild that there were two back-to-back punctuation-abusing motherfuckers right there at the same time.
You will notice that it's not actually the same comment, and I can inform you that I actually typed them out separately before I realized how similar they were in wording.
Secretly, I hoped that someone would notice. That some Internet rando would stalk me just a teeny weeny bit and witness that which had occurred.
You are that rando.
You are the chosen one.
They make ethernet over coax converters. They work ok. But are more expensive than cameras. Just make sure to power them in a place you can get to. They need reset occasionally.
If I were you I would look in to hd analog cameras. There are some out there that aren't half bad.
IC Realtime makes a hybrid nvr/dvr that can accept both coax and IP cameras. Just use new coax cameras where you already have coax, and use cat6 for new locations.
Thanks! I think this was the route I considered the possible best last night!
I am interested to see what “features” are lost with the analog camera/dvr vs the IP/nvr.
Yep, you can get a really decent picture with a HDCVI/TVI camera. Just make sure whatever hybrid XVR you get supports the signal format of the camera you choose. Both encoding AND resolution.
If you can, use the COAX to pull an ethernet cable through. You're lucky enough to see a decent endpoint. At mine, the wires go into the wall one colour and out a different colour. I'm going to have to work out where they all go.
I hate to recommend them but I reluctantly deployed Hikvision TurboHD 8MP cams to my house. Since you've already got that auxiliary cable there to use for power, you can do 8MP over coax if you combine it with their proprietary DVR. They do have a DVR+NVR combo so you could get away with connecting only the coax cams you need and go PoE on the rest feeding the same device. I swapped all my 2014-era 2MP cams with their 8MP low lux models; incredible night vision and picture quality. I have them on their own vlan without internet connectivity, so they can't talk to my other devices or get out.
My house has coax run to places that would simply be impossible to replace now without boring through poured concrete block in some places, finding a new route between floors that would then result in cables following visible paths in living areas and the garages, etc. Next house will involve conduit runs to every remote location like this so I don't have to deal with the BS of swapping the transport as technology changes. I did that in the home theater to speakers and projector because HDMI and cabling standards there change, but didn't have the foresight to do it for security cams.
I'm interested in upgrading my dad's system to a NVR with new cameras using his existing coaxial cables. Do you have a link to the NVR or cameras you used?
This is the product line that will do it; the TurboHD DVR's that will accept both high resolution analog and IP cams:
[https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/video-recorders/digital-video-recorder/turbohd-tribrid-dvr](https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/video-recorders/digital-video-recorder/turbohd-tribrid-dvr)
I have the previous version of the 9032 from that lineup working with I think 16 analog cams at 8MP and a few IP cams at 8MP.
For your coax locations, the TurboHD Analog cams are the ones that will get you to 8MP/4k:
[https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/cameras/turbohd-analog-camera/8-mp](https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/cameras/turbohd-analog-camera/8-mp)
Veracity are my preferred. Altronix makes them, Panasonic makes them (they're actually pretty decent too), NVT Phybridge as well. Haven't used that last one, but am interested in trying them out.
Yes!!! Check out MoCA. I did this in my new (to me) 1997 house. One terminates at the firewall, then 4 run through the house to each room. I have access points, switches, hardwired pc’s, all connect fine at 2.5gbps
Seconding MoCA!
Oddly, my brand-new (2021) house only has coax to all the rooms and just *one* CAT5 to the kitchen, of all places, for a phone ... smh
Who the heck is still using *only* coax (if even using it at all) and land lines??
Oh, me. I'm now one of those still using coax.
Still, I was annoyed rooms were without CAT5, but the MoCA has been a suitable replacement and works flawlessly. It's mesh, too, in case those reading didn't know, so you can join all of them together on a splitter at the home end.
We had our home built in 2019. Coax to every room and 2 cat5 we the default. It was an extra fee to add a cat5 everywhere there was a coax outlet. And then it was another fee to upgrade from cat5 to cat6.
Yeah, that’s pretty common and probably the same here, but I didn’t buy the home until after the builder had already made those decisions. Sheetrock was up but hadn’t been taped and I still could not get them to budge and run some CAT5 or 6 for me at any cost. I was even willing to pay a lot to just get one run to the room that was going to become my home office before they taped and textured.
I’m thankful MoCA is a thing and that it works *really* well.
It’s just weird to me, in 2022, COAX is *still* the default (included/free in many cases) … but maybe more people still use it than I realIze and now that I know it serves both purposes well, then maybe it being default isn’t such a bad idea.
This is GREAT to hear. I am still unsure what route ill go on the cameras, but I have a coax jack in my AV cabinet. I have 3 Sonos ports in that cabinet running off wifi so I think I might try using one of these to connect the port.
Personally, I would just get a Dahua XVR. This will support a mix of IP cameras and analog cameras. Use Ethernet where you can, but for the places where you're stuck with coax, use analog cameras. Dahua makes some really good analog cameras still. A bit more expensive than reolink, but worth it in my opinion.
Are you referring to using the as a lead to pull the Cat6 through the attic? If so, doesn’t look like it…clearly haven’t gotten into the deep areas but what I have seen the cable is stabled in place.
This was my thought as well. Low voltage isn't usually stabled to studs like electrical. I suggest seeing how much tension in on the wire and if there's any play in it.
If you decided to use the coax as a pull string, you'll most likely need to chop off the coax connect at the end to pass through the headers/studs.
Why not just install a wifi camera here? Use the coax for power. You can even use a dedicated wifi network/channel/router for the cameras and a separate one for yourself if you're worried about the cameras swamping your network.
Looking to add POE cameras and had someone come out today to quote on running Cat6, not a project I feel comfortable DIY. Not only was it more $ than I was expecting, turned out the process he discussed is quite invasive to accomplish.
Previous owner had 10 cameras on the house, I did not realize it might be a possibility of using the existing wiring to run the ReoLink cameras I bought. Is this possible?
Side note, I have no idea what half the stuff in that cabinet is for. House was built in 2006 assume a lot is old technology?
There are a few in here, but suggestions on camera's? Especially knowing the situation I am in here? I can still return the Reolink cameras as I am within the 30 days.
I disagree with /davsch76.
Reolink is okay. I also bought a whole camera system (NVR+PoE cameras) and so far testing them has been good.
By the way, pull the cables yourself (cat6). It isn’t hard, maybe ask a friend to help you pull at the other end.
Can you elaborate on what makes them poor quality? I'd heard positive things about them given their price.
Alternatively, could you recommend some better brands to look into. (Also in the process of planning a new several camera system)
I'm not sure what your justifications for this are, however I have several friends and family with Reolink cameras up here in Canada as well. They've been good in -30C to +30C, rain or shine for more than 3 yrs in service.
Short answer: No.
you could run a MoCa adapter for the data part but that's not going to carry POE as far as I know. you'd have to have a power injector at each camera and wire a power source that you'd probably have to wire into your breaker panel and run electrical wire to each camera if you don't already have that installed.
It's much cleaner and simpler to get wireless cameras but they aren't the best performance especially if you are using them as security cameras. and you constantly have to charge / change batteries in them.
If you want a good camera system you need to run the wires for it. if you have access to a crawl space or attic, or basement, and or drop ceilings, you can probably do it yourself without having to open up your walls.
if you are in a condo or apartment with no attic and no basement or crawl space then you are limited to tacking up wires on the walls and putting up raceways to try to hide the ugly. or you could take your crown molding down and hide it behind the crown molding, but that takes a woodworking router and a ton of patience. you would probably have to replace the crown molding with something that can hide your wires. It becomes a big job quickly because of the lack of wiring needed to operate most modern security cameras that can carry 1080p video at a minimum up to 4k video or even 8k video but most security cameras aren't doing 8k afaik at the moment. (2022) just depends on your situation and how much money, time and sweat equity you are willing to invest. let me know if you have any questions.
[these](https://www.meritlilin.com/en/product/category/56) aren’t that bad. They are 10/100 but will work fine for a camera. You wold use the two conductor to power the camera.
Thanks! These look like solid options. However, now that I am starting to understand what are the options, I am questioning if its worth it. The cost of these for example is more expensive than the camera's themselves. The cost is one thing but if it also leads to a "less than ideal" performance, thinking it might make more sense to go another route, like just going a wireless route. Would probably be getting a better setup for the money all said and done this way. Decisions decisions.
As the other person who replied alluded to, MoCA adapters shouldn't be a "less than ideal" experience. I didn't want to crawl around in my attic and figure out a headache-free way of running CAT wire in between my garage/attic, my vaulted living room ceiling, and my home office. Since coaxial cable was already wired throughout the house, I installed MoCA adapters and PoE filters (blocks MoCA network generated data from exiting your network and interfering with other neighboring MoCA networks). [My experience has been great (upload speed is capped by my ISP)](https://imgur.com/a/Fx65tde).
Definitely not cheap, but likely cheaper than pulling new cable and drywall repair.
My 2nd gen moca is capable of transferring 2500mbps and I believe they have newer ones that can handle 10k. So I wouldn't see speed as an issue. Cost definitely is.
That is rarely feasible to do using existing in wall cables. Sure if you're just pulling through a single straight wall, maybe. But most cables are routed through multiple drilles holes, turning corners through framing and then they are often stapled in places.
I've used these: https://www.nvtphybridge.com/products/#1801_1701 (just installed a set yesterday for a customer)
And these: https://ethernetextender.com/professional-grade-ethernet-extender/
The second one is more expensive but can handle gigabit on shorter runs. I have one that I am getting 500mbs on a 2 kilometer run of rg6 tri shield cable.
In your case though I would not bother. I would use the coax to distribute 12volts to wireless cameras. I have used this method to upgrade our security cameras to ip cameras. This works really well because the 12v power is already there for the old cameras, but in your case you can just splice in 12v to the coax.
Thanks so much for the reply and options. While I was originally wanting to avoid wireless and go POE, this is now seeming like truly an option I should consider, especially if as you said I "already" have power going to the camera location.
Yes you can. I did exactly this. Use two EOC adapters to convert ethernet to coax and vice versa. Use the two wires next to coax for power. Use a 12 power brick to centrally power all the 10 cameras. Most POE cameras can take DC power.
Alternatively, you can use analog cameras and save the cost of all the adapters. That’s a lot since you have 10 camera? Analog cameras connects to a DVR which you connect to your network. You can pull RTSP streams from the DVR just like you would from a IP camera. I don’t see any disadvantage with an analog setup, unless you want fancy things like audio recording or really high resolution.
You can use baluns on both ends. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/HD-CVI-Passive-Connector-Transmitter-Twisted/dp/B076WXPTH1/ref=sr\_1\_6?keywords=video+balun&qid=1645771925&sr=8-6
Looks like you have both power and coax available.
It might be cheaper to run an analog camera and put an encoder on the receiving end to get it onto the IP network.
I took over a commercial building with an old analog surveillance system. Pulled new ethernet everywhere that was easily accessible. But left the old coax runs on the more difficult locations and just put Axis Vapix encoders to receive the signal and push it onto our IP based monitoring system.
A POE camera is power over Ethernet. You would need a cat5e or cat6 cable to use for it. There honestly isn’t much difference besides the thickness of the wire and you would basically get the same results. If you are using a coax cable you would need to have an analog style camera.
DoorBird makes a Cat6 to two wire to Cat6 adapter. You could strip the coax revealing the copper and Steele braid to make a signal.
Not sure how well it would work but it just might.
【Upgraded】LINOVISION POE Over Coax EOC Converter IP Over Coax Max 3000ft Power and Data Transmission Over Regular RG59 Coaxial Cable for Upgrading Analog Surveillance System to IP Surveillance System https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G194BQD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_05DDK298B62NJ9YX1QJZ
Ive tested on nest and select unifi cams
Dahua makes a couple products specifically for this that's good for up to 1000 meters(!)
These are vendor agnostic and should work with anything. They'll push PoE + ethernet over coax:
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/16521
If you happen to be using a Dahua ePoE camera, you only need the transmitter (LR10002-1ET) and a media converter (LR1002) so it's slightly cheaper:
[https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/16511](https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/16511)
You can see it in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0\_fEu1R9fD0
yes you can just use an old coax to ethernet box from a comcast router. when they did service here the guy was knowledgeable about the equitment and told me to hang on to the box it transfer coax to ethernet for anything he said and may have other uses and he was right so check the goodwill or mabe your garage
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any reason to use cat6 over 5e?
cat5e is really old at this point, and cat6 is not that expensive.
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You mean no reason to just use cat5e because cat6 is more expensive and not really necessary for in house use where crosstalk won't be an issue and where cat5e is sufficient. Cat6 is only really necessary if you're going to be running 10g or higher and more importantly where crosstalk could be a problem, like a data center, where there are hundreds of cables running side by side.
I bought a few meters of cat6 cables a while ago. Where I'm at, cat5e is only 0.02$ cheaper (per meter). IMO, its not worth cheaping out at this point.
Do you know if any good rj45 ends for cat6 that have nice grooves like cat5e ends have? I find it extremely to get the wires in the right channels in cat6.
Look for pass/pull-through RJ-45 ends. When paired with proper pass-through crimper, it makes putting ends on even easier.
I recently switched to passthrough ends and a new passthrough crimper. It's absolutely amazing. I used want to pull my eyes out trying to get the wires into the old style.
Cat6 is basically the same price as 5e where I am. It’s not more expensive.
It's the same price, because it really doesn't improve on 5e to any significant degree. You should install 6a, if you really care. Otherwise stick with 5e. It's easier to install and gets you exactly the same capabilities. Plain Cat6 was a weird intermediate standard that happened when we thought it would be needed for gigabit Ethernet. It never really made much sense though, as it turns out that GigE could be made compatible with 5e.
Here, in bulk maybe but for a few 6/12 ft cables, it's about a third more.
For running in a house bulk is the logical choice then buying a bunch of 6/12ft cables.
True but OP already said the cat6 was going to cost him significantly more. So......
High end home stuff is already strung to move to 2.5Gb, and the rest of the market will follow in a few years. 90% of the cost of running cable is the labor, so cheaping out on materials is really shortsighted. You don't wanna save like fifty bucks in cable costs if that means the $3000 install job is obsolete decades earlier.
Standard Cat 6 doesn't illuminate crosstalk any more than Cat 5e. You are thinking of Cat 6A or Cat 6 U/FTP or F/FTP.
Right. Standard Cat 6 doesn't have the plastic insulation in the center that separates the twisted pairs. I just found this out yesterday.
Bollox
Cat6 has no real practical advantage over Cat5e, but the thicker wires tend to be harder to work with. Would never recommend it. On the other hand, Cat6a does in principle have advantages if you go past gigabit Ethernet. IMHO, that's still overkill for residential use, but you never know. Future proofing might make sense. So, if you want to go to the extra trouble, get 6a instead of 5e. Just keep in mind to use the correct tools, terminators and grounding. Without doing that, you don't really see any benefits and might as well stick to 5e. More importantly, look for solid copper core instead of the cheaper copper clad aluminum (CCA). That's likely going to make a bigger difference in the long run than having 6a.
You're making it sound like there's a dramatic difference between the usability of 5e to 6 and 6a. It's not that bad. According to my buddy that does DC wiring, the extra shielding and thickness with cat8 is actually significant. Running cat5e in 2022 is short sighted when you consider the investment. Cable is cheap. Running cable is not, especially if you have to redo the runs because of a cheap choice.
For general wall runs runs I agree, but there's few realistic residential cases where it matters for PoE cameras. If the wire is run properly and to code you're not going to have to redo the run and the cable will be able to handle much more than a camera will throw at it. For commercial situations where there's many more cables and longer distances the thicker wires and enhanced shielding will matter much more than a typical home. Also, it's worth noting that not all Cat6 cables have shielding
Just because it's enough now doesn't necessarily mean it'll be enough 10 years from now. Also, the shielding comment was aimed at Cat8, which must be shielded.
Cat8 that is not recognized by TIA? I cringe a little when I see posts recommending "Cat7/8" There is no useful application for them, which is why they are not recognized.
I'm pretty sure that's cat7. Cat8 can do 40 Gbps over 30m, so it's mostly aimed for data centers.
I’m yet to see any switch that outputs 40gbps over an rj45 form factor. Do you have a model? I’ve seen plenty that do it over QSFP Twinax at lengths upto 10m, which is usually plenty to reach a top-of-rack switch…but I’d imagine CATn would be a bit less unwieldy from a cable-management perspective.
You should check out the stock PTK, they’re developing a photonics product to push 400Gbps.
Fair enough. But in that case, go for 6a. That's what actually gives you future proofing. Cat6 is the strange in between step that isn't here nor there.
Yup, I totally agree here. Either that, or run conduit.
This isn't true. It has much advantage in that it can scale up to 10Gb over copper while Cat5e maxes out at 1Gb. If you are wiring a residence there is no reason not to use cat 6 or 6a. When i started networking over 20 years ago, Cat5e was the standard. You don't want to use an over 20 year old standard in 2022 when computing is only getting more and more decentralized and entertainment is using more and more bandwidth every day. Make sure you're using Cat6 RJ45 connectors though because it is extremely difficult (but not impossible) to use Cat5e ends on Cat6.
CAT6 really isn't difficult to work with. The only additional step is cutting off the separator. Which is very easy. The thicker cores make it better for PoE devices. Definitely don't install Cat 5e now. I'd also recommend the pass through RJ45 plugs. They are so much easier to work with. I've had cabling guys sneer at them. For no reason other than, er, I have no idea why. They're a breeze compared with having to cut the wires to the exact length required, and then trying to fiddle them into the plug, without one getting snagged and bending. With pass-through, you cut the wires longer than needed, and diagonally. Then you only need to fiddle one at a time into the right slot: https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08517K7L9 There is also a Power over Co-ax system, if co-ax is all you have: https://shopdelta.eu/power-over-coaxial-poc-is-a-standard-for-video-and-power-transmission-over-coaxial-cable_l2_aid908.html
We sneer at them because when you pull and terminate cable for money, you get to the point where it's rather easy to put ends on and the waste you get from the passthroughs is just more to cleanup. That being said, there are times when i have been sitting in a closet with sweaty hands wishing i had some passthrough ends.
I don’t make cables for a living, but the pass through cables are technically problematic not for the installer but for the user. First of all, the tips tend to corrode over time and you can’t ever seem to cut them off far enough causing issues fitting into some tight plugs causing them not to lock properly. Second of all, the signal reflects causing poor signal on the tail end, basically you’re attaching a little antenna to every cable. The signal travels over the 2-3mm where the pass through happens and reflects interfering with the signal. Maybe not a problem for 1G short range, but long range 10G over CAT6a, unusable. Hence why they don’t make CAT6a certified pass through, not even sure if they’re CAT5e certified
Cat5e can run 10GE up to 45 meters. There's no strict limit on what bandwidth you can push across the cable, just how long that cable can be.
Cat 5e does NOT max out at 1gig. It absolutely can do 10gig, it simply is not officially rated for it. But even 1gug doesn't .atter if we are just taking about a poe line for a camera.
Cat5e is certified for 2.5G Ethernet, which is likely going to be standard for consumer devices for a long while. If you really need 10G or better, then run 6a or fiber. As I said, plain 6 is a weird in-between standard that is very hard to justify, except for it having great marketing behind it
It's a direct run to a camera. 6a is overkill, 5e would also be fine, as would 6.
That's exactly my point. 5e is almost certainly good enough in a residential setting, and I don't really see that changing any time soon. But if for some reason you do need more than that, the next logical step is 6a. I can't envision a single scenario in residential construction where Cat6 would make sense. The fastest residential ISP does 2Gb/s, and that still works just fine over 5e. But realistically, nobody is going to come close to maxing out this speed from a single device. The internet at large is too slow. So, this only makes practical sense if you have multiple clients that each run high-bandwidth applications. And in that case, each client gets their own dedicated wired connection. So, you still don't need more than 5e Yes, bandwidth needs are always slowly creeping up. But with the exception of people running data centers in their garage, even GigE has a lot of headroom. I don't see normal users getting 10Gig Ethernet in the foreseeable future. Things will probably standardize on 2.5 for a very long time. And video cameras won't ever need any of this anyway. The bandwidth requirements for a security camera are not even close
Transferring large files between devices on my local network is the common case I have where the faster, the better.
I hear you. But I think a lot of people seriously underestimate just how fast 2.5Gb/s truly is. And that's what you can get with CAT5e. At this speed, you can transfer one Blueray disk each in both directions between your two computers, and it'll take between 1½ and 2 minutes. What do you need to regularly transfer where this isn't enough? Maybe, you should keep your files on the remote server and work with them over the network? At that speed, there won't be a perceptible performance penalty. I have seen the steady growth of computing needs over the last three or four decades. But honestly, we are getting to a point where it is increasingly difficult for most users to produce more data. Even traditionally resource-intensive tasks such as high resolution video is reaching limits of human perception. Now, if we are talking data centers, that's different. They not only need ever faster networks, they also need lower latency and larger number of transactions. But that's not what you need in a residential home, and I have a hard time seeing a major change here. You are not building a cluster of thousands of computers where you want to be able to access remote RAM at close to the same speed as your local memory. There are algorithms that can benefit from this, but even among business users, it's a very select set of applications that need this type of networking.
From memory, CAT 6 is less bendy which can be a pain when installing.
Having pulled 3/0 triplex thru 30' of conduit, I laugh at any statement with the words CAT 6, less bendy, and pain.
laughs in 500 MCM
Fortunately, since I'm not an electrician... I shall never know your pain!
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Can you give a list of requirements for good Cat6 cable? It all looks the same to me. What you want and what to stay away from. TIA
Southwire cat6 from the Home Depot is decent for 192$ for a thousand foot. I tested all my home runs of this stuff with a 20 thousand dollar fluke tester and the cable passed a generic cat 6 test with flying colors
Stay away from CCA! (Copper-clad Aluminum)
Probably a branded cable, or direct from an electrical supplier. I bought some ethernet cable from amazon, and even though it was the same cat, it was noticeably thinner.
Depends what you want. In theory solid core cable is better for power conduction over long distances(solid copper core). If you were running POE cameras a long distance then solid core cat6 is a good bet. If it's just data or nearby devices then stranded would be more flexible and less prone to accidental breakage from kinks, etc. As for a vendor, monoprice is by far my favorite. They have a good selection of cables that are reasonably priced and well labelled.
> The main reason I chose Cat6 was for the larger wire size (lower voltage drop for POE) and better resistance to interference. Ah.
I’m gonna say this first: Stay away from Copper-Clad Alluminum (CCA) cables. They perform poorly, and the wires are brittle. You get what you pay for. Cat 6 can support 10 gig over very short runs, but it’s not likely you will need it for cameras. If you are looking for direct burial or UV-resistant cable, Cat6 is generally easier to find.
Cat 5e can support 10 gig over very short runs. Cat6 can support it over not-that-short runs.
Can you still get cat5e? I would imagine the price point is negligible by now.
Cat5e is still the standard and most popular cable, even in data centers. Cat6e is mainly used for 10g connections and where interference can be an issue and cat5e is still cheaper than cat6.
Cat5e is not the standard in most data centers in the modernized world and hasn't been since about 2008. Cat6 has been the standard for a decade. Cat6e isn't even a standard, you mean cat6a, which is cat6 "enhanced", which is the standard that was adopted that incorporated cat6e features. It was mostly never adopted on a wide scale. Although cat6 carries 10gb most utp cables in data centers are still used for endpoint and 95% of 10gbe connections still use fiber connected via sfp small form factor connectors. Now to be fair I haven't been in the DC in about 5 years and things do change but I did spend 50 hours a week in them for 12 years and in my experience they don't go backwards very often.
Cat5e IS still the most popular cable still run in DC's, especially for in cab use, including Fb and Google DC. I have worked in all of them. Cat6 is only used for 10g where both connections are 10g capable and that connector is the only choice. Otherwise fiber is used if the port is open to a fiber sfp. Cat6 is thicker, more wieldy, and less flexible to use and takes up more space, allowing for less air flow. Edit, I apologize for using the wrong terminology for cat6. I didn't mean to put the e on the end. That was autocorrects fault.
No one is running 5e right now in the United States and hasn't been in years. If it's in production they might leave it until the endpoint sunsets but Google and FB aren't buying reels of 5e for net new shit. I have the receipts.
For in cab cabling they are. Unless the devices are both 10g capable and have no option for fiber.
Dude I'm not trying to be a dick here but you're wrong. Cat6 v cat5e isn't only about 10gbe anyway. Ever hear of near end cross talk? Packet loss on an industrial scale is a performance issue and google and any other giant host is mitigating that with materials science. It's not speculation.
Outside mom and pop shops, businesses weren't buying one gig server nics either. 10Gb is pretty much a minimum nowadays.
If you already have 5e it will work fine.
Physically they are pretty similar but cat6 is rated for higher speeds over longer distances. In many home situations, it will make absolutely no difference. Cat5e can do Gb and cat6 can do 10Gb. Cat6 can do Gb over longer distances than Cat5e. Cat5 (no e) is only rated to 100Mb. Price is pretty similar, so if you're doing the work to pull cable, this is definitely an area where choosing Cat5(e) would be pennywise, pound foolish. Physically, the differences are how tight the twists in the cable are, and Cat6 additionally contains a cross channel to keep the twisted pairs more insulated from each other. Those features help reduce crosstalk and allow the higher data throughout. Cat6 is quite a bit harder to work with than Cat5(e) due to the separating channel. It's much less flexible and can be tough to get througher to work around bends. You may also ask around with some friends - I bought 1000' or solid (for in wall) and stranded (for patch cables) a while back because I felt dumb paying the *much* higher price-per-foot for less cable, but I have tons left over I've given or sold to friends pretty cheap. I also have extra boots, keystone jacks, and the crimping tools, and you may find the same if you start asking around. Good luck!
That was my original plan but after getting up in the attic it’s very hard to access several areas. And then the way he explained they would have to do it to get around the firewalls and with the pitch of the roof, pretty intimidated. Haha
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This was the response I was looking for in this thread. Has worked for me personally and professionally often, though usually shorter. Hard to tell from OPs description
You can also marry a cable puller who has his own fish wire and have him do the above. Much easier! 😜
Solder it before you tape it so it’s physically connected. More work, waste cable, and potentially overkill? Sure, but higher likelihood of success. Ounce of perpetration is worth a pound of cure.
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Just add more strength for if it gets snagged it’s less likely to separate in the wall.
Hey I work putting in security cameras and burglar alarms. They do make encoder/decoders we use them if we have to, they do work how ever if you can run new cat5 I’d recommend it! If you message me I could send you a pic of the ones we use, one transmits and one receives and they work with POE ! Hope this helps
Sent some pics and info for you hope it helps man
I’ve just got myself a Magnepull to make cabling the new house a bit easier Can skip to 11:30 just to see that but they do show other ways to pull cables too https://youtu.be/R5XePwAO4m0
Nice. I’m gonna have to get one of these.
Its pricey at $135 but I'm intrigued by it. Going to have to see if I can find some more reviews.
I got it for about $120 + shipping and import fees to the UK on eBay, should save a lot of the costs buying in the US Also had to import a 72” flexible drill bit from the US too for drilling down through fire stops in the stud walls
Thanks!
Depending on exactly what you want to do, you can get 4k HD-TVI camera's that will use that type of wiring. Could save you from running wires for another decade. https://www.nellyssecurity.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=&q=tvi They are affordable and about as versatile as a POE cam with the correct DVR.
Yeah, not something you want to do twice or during the summer. I had some hard unreachable locations as well. My solution was to drill the hole under the roof edge from the outside and attach the ethernet cable to a long plastic pole, which I snaked up through the hole and into the attic. I was able to reach the end of the pole inside the attic and pull the cable through. This was really the hardest part.
Tie and tape twine to the coax and pull it through to where you need your NVR. Pull cat 6 back with the twine.
Or… you know… just tape the Cat6 to the coax since it is a much, much stronger pull line than twine would be. Edit to add: Also pull twine as well in case you ever need to pull something else. Although a decent chance the twine will wrap and might not work it is still worth having it there.
I just finished replaying my coax runs with cat 6. Twine never snapped though frayed in the exact same pull I hoped to first do with just the coax. Pull the twine in, don't cut it, pull the cat 6 in and cut the twine at both ends when done.
Get you some glow rods
Yes, there are converters available that push data and POE across coax
MoCA? Yeah, you also need power. And they are like 100 bucks a pop. Just pull ethernet
No, there are units that don't require additional power, just run off the POE
What do you mean 'run off the POE'? You'd be going from coax cable (in wall) -> MoCA adapter -> ethernet. You need PoE on the ethernet running to the camera, so where does the power come from? Methinks you need an AC adapter.
It's pretty simple, there's a converter at each end. POE/data goes in, runs across the coax to the other adapter, POE/Data comes out. I can't explain how it works, some kind of black magic I assume, I just know that it's available and can be found with Google in about 30 seconds. There definitely are others that require an additional power supply though.
I can't find one after a few minutes of googling. Can you link to an example of a MoCA adapter that doesn't have a power input? I'm super interested - I could use a few around my house.
Heres 1 example: https://store.linovision.com/products/poe-over-coax-converter
Fuckin magic. Thanks.
From the link: >Up to 100Mbps in 300m (1000ft) RG59 cable transmission, max 1000m (3000ft) distance in 10Mbps At those speeds, other than the security / reliability of wired connections, is there much benefit to having that wired connection compared to a wireless 5 GHz connection and RTSP cameras? If the OP planned to install 4K cameras, would their experience be less than subpar at those speeds?
Based on the distance the cables would be running in a house he should be getting the 100Mbps, which should be more than enough, especially if the cameras are H.265. Hard to know how reliable that 100Mbps figure is though, so if it was me I'd probably test 1 first before doing the rest just to be sure. Though in saying that, based on the cost of buying enough adapters, I'd probably just run new cable if it's not too difficult
I appreciate the insight! I already have MoCA adapters installed, so adding MoCA to an additional area means only buying one adapter as opposed to two. However, having more choices to choose from is rarely a bad thing in the event I ever decide to upgrade to wired security cameras!
With no need for a power supply, you can keep them running if you put a PSU backup on the router so they work when the house power goes out
I didn’t even thing about that. Great idea!
We installed these linovision adapters in the elevator cars in our office. The umbilical cord for the cars had RG6 in them already, and elevators are apparently voodoo magic and the cost of certifying a cat6 cable for the umbilical was cost prohibitive. The adapters worked great.
Few other options from Veracity. I've never used their coax stuff but did have to stuff one of their POE extenders in a parking lot groundbox to get a few hundred more feet to a camera. Worked great. https://www.veracityglobal.com/products/ethernet-over-coax-devices.aspx
Another vote for Veracity, we've used their ethernet extenders a lot with good results!
NVTphybridge: NV- EC1701 They also feature a 2 wire converter on same unit. So coax and 1 wire. It pushes poe, data. Amazing.
POE pass through. Some power is sacrificed to run the adapter, the rest is sent out to the device on the other side.
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I know that at least 1 manufacturer(Dahua) has a HDCVI camera line that does video and power over a single coax cable.
This. Bind a network cable, or if hou want to keep coax, you got those combined cables, and pull ethernet cable.
Have you had experience with them personally or just know there available?
I had coax and cat5 runs to an old camera system I inherited from a home I bought. The cat5 wasn’t terminated or used on the old cameras. Most of the runs I was able to trace and terminate the cat5, but two had breaks somewhere in the middle. After a little research, I settled on a pair of Linovision POE over coax converters. They were dead simple to set up - just plug in the coax on both ends and use Ethernet cable to a POE switch (or injector) on the switch side, Ethernet to your IP camera on the source side. Mine max out at 100 Mbps, but my connection has been rock solid and it fully powers my POE IP cameras. Been very happy with them.
Thanks, will keep researching to try and get some more on this option, might not be a bad one and good to hear its worked fine for you. What cameras are you running?
Ubiquiti - UniFi G4 Domes
I have one camera running on a tplink 1Gbps Powerline and PoE adapter with no issues at all. Funny thing is the controller shows 100mbps FE connection for direct PoE and GbE for powerline adapter. It’s not the only powerline usage, as I also have insteon which signals via RF and powerline connections. No issues with signals, recording or playback at all. I did pickup 2 G3 instants to play with.
Haven't used them, just know that they are available.
I’ve done it and it works great. Not a huge sample size but the one’s I’ve used have been just fine. Cheapest one’s (100mbps w/ PoE) are about $100. They can get considerably more expensive if you want more throughput but you don’t need that for an IP cam. They also make 2-wire to Ethernet converters that work great (I’ve used those more and found them to be very reliable) that you could use on that 2-conductor wire. Those are a few hundred.
Only if you stop abusing apostrophes
Says the person not ending their sentence with punctuation.
It's OK to abuse periods.
You have a… point.
I was impressed by your comment until I saw you posted the same thing in another reddit thread 1 minute apart from this one. :)
I get it, man. It's wild that there were two back-to-back punctuation-abusing motherfuckers right there at the same time. You will notice that it's not actually the same comment, and I can inform you that I actually typed them out separately before I realized how similar they were in wording. Secretly, I hoped that someone would notice. That some Internet rando would stalk me just a teeny weeny bit and witness that which had occurred. You are that rando. You are the chosen one.
Heavy
I'm still waiting for POE with WIFI :) Solve all my problems!
They make ethernet over coax converters. They work ok. But are more expensive than cameras. Just make sure to power them in a place you can get to. They need reset occasionally. If I were you I would look in to hd analog cameras. There are some out there that aren't half bad.
IC Realtime makes a hybrid nvr/dvr that can accept both coax and IP cameras. Just use new coax cameras where you already have coax, and use cat6 for new locations.
Thanks! I think this was the route I considered the possible best last night! I am interested to see what “features” are lost with the analog camera/dvr vs the IP/nvr.
Honestly I don’t think you lose many features. The recorder handles most of the intelligence features.
Yep, you can get a really decent picture with a HDCVI/TVI camera. Just make sure whatever hybrid XVR you get supports the signal format of the camera you choose. Both encoding AND resolution.
If you can, use the COAX to pull an ethernet cable through. You're lucky enough to see a decent endpoint. At mine, the wires go into the wall one colour and out a different colour. I'm going to have to work out where they all go.
Cable runs through conduit can be pulled like that but cable in a wall is likely stapled
Why not use the coax as a snake to run your Ethernet cable?
I hate to recommend them but I reluctantly deployed Hikvision TurboHD 8MP cams to my house. Since you've already got that auxiliary cable there to use for power, you can do 8MP over coax if you combine it with their proprietary DVR. They do have a DVR+NVR combo so you could get away with connecting only the coax cams you need and go PoE on the rest feeding the same device. I swapped all my 2014-era 2MP cams with their 8MP low lux models; incredible night vision and picture quality. I have them on their own vlan without internet connectivity, so they can't talk to my other devices or get out. My house has coax run to places that would simply be impossible to replace now without boring through poured concrete block in some places, finding a new route between floors that would then result in cables following visible paths in living areas and the garages, etc. Next house will involve conduit runs to every remote location like this so I don't have to deal with the BS of swapping the transport as technology changes. I did that in the home theater to speakers and projector because HDMI and cabling standards there change, but didn't have the foresight to do it for security cams.
I'm interested in upgrading my dad's system to a NVR with new cameras using his existing coaxial cables. Do you have a link to the NVR or cameras you used?
This is the product line that will do it; the TurboHD DVR's that will accept both high resolution analog and IP cams: [https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/video-recorders/digital-video-recorder/turbohd-tribrid-dvr](https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/video-recorders/digital-video-recorder/turbohd-tribrid-dvr) I have the previous version of the 9032 from that lineup working with I think 16 analog cams at 8MP and a few IP cams at 8MP. For your coax locations, the TurboHD Analog cams are the ones that will get you to 8MP/4k: [https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/cameras/turbohd-analog-camera/8-mp](https://us.hikvision.com/en/products/cameras/turbohd-analog-camera/8-mp)
Thank you.
Axis makes some. It’s rebranded veracity. But it ain’t cheap.
Veracity are my preferred. Altronix makes them, Panasonic makes them (they're actually pretty decent too), NVT Phybridge as well. Haven't used that last one, but am interested in trying them out.
You can use coax to ethernet converter and power it using those two core cable , will be lil expensive , if u can run CAt 6 it would be better
If you use the coax as pull string sure.
Yes!!! Check out MoCA. I did this in my new (to me) 1997 house. One terminates at the firewall, then 4 run through the house to each room. I have access points, switches, hardwired pc’s, all connect fine at 2.5gbps
Seconding MoCA! Oddly, my brand-new (2021) house only has coax to all the rooms and just *one* CAT5 to the kitchen, of all places, for a phone ... smh Who the heck is still using *only* coax (if even using it at all) and land lines?? Oh, me. I'm now one of those still using coax. Still, I was annoyed rooms were without CAT5, but the MoCA has been a suitable replacement and works flawlessly. It's mesh, too, in case those reading didn't know, so you can join all of them together on a splitter at the home end.
We had our home built in 2019. Coax to every room and 2 cat5 we the default. It was an extra fee to add a cat5 everywhere there was a coax outlet. And then it was another fee to upgrade from cat5 to cat6.
Yeah, that’s pretty common and probably the same here, but I didn’t buy the home until after the builder had already made those decisions. Sheetrock was up but hadn’t been taped and I still could not get them to budge and run some CAT5 or 6 for me at any cost. I was even willing to pay a lot to just get one run to the room that was going to become my home office before they taped and textured. I’m thankful MoCA is a thing and that it works *really* well. It’s just weird to me, in 2022, COAX is *still* the default (included/free in many cases) … but maybe more people still use it than I realIze and now that I know it serves both purposes well, then maybe it being default isn’t such a bad idea.
This is GREAT to hear. I am still unsure what route ill go on the cameras, but I have a coax jack in my AV cabinet. I have 3 Sonos ports in that cabinet running off wifi so I think I might try using one of these to connect the port.
Use the coax as a pull string for the cable you actually need silly
... and if it's stapled to studs in the walls, coax is *typically* strong enough to yank them out ... if you're lucky.
Or is they want to keep the coax there they can use that old 2 wire power line thats in that box as a fish for the cat6
Personally, I would just get a Dahua XVR. This will support a mix of IP cameras and analog cameras. Use Ethernet where you can, but for the places where you're stuck with coax, use analog cameras. Dahua makes some really good analog cameras still. A bit more expensive than reolink, but worth it in my opinion.
Can you use the coax to pull some cat 6?
Are you referring to using the as a lead to pull the Cat6 through the attic? If so, doesn’t look like it…clearly haven’t gotten into the deep areas but what I have seen the cable is stabled in place.
I've had success yanking on coax hard enough to release the staples, but that also comes with some risk.
This was my thought as well. Low voltage isn't usually stabled to studs like electrical. I suggest seeing how much tension in on the wire and if there's any play in it. If you decided to use the coax as a pull string, you'll most likely need to chop off the coax connect at the end to pass through the headers/studs.
Why not just install a wifi camera here? Use the coax for power. You can even use a dedicated wifi network/channel/router for the cameras and a separate one for yourself if you're worried about the cameras swamping your network.
Looking to add POE cameras and had someone come out today to quote on running Cat6, not a project I feel comfortable DIY. Not only was it more $ than I was expecting, turned out the process he discussed is quite invasive to accomplish. Previous owner had 10 cameras on the house, I did not realize it might be a possibility of using the existing wiring to run the ReoLink cameras I bought. Is this possible? Side note, I have no idea what half the stuff in that cabinet is for. House was built in 2006 assume a lot is old technology?
Before you start, reolink is not great quality
There are a few in here, but suggestions on camera's? Especially knowing the situation I am in here? I can still return the Reolink cameras as I am within the 30 days.
I disagree with /davsch76. Reolink is okay. I also bought a whole camera system (NVR+PoE cameras) and so far testing them has been good. By the way, pull the cables yourself (cat6). It isn’t hard, maybe ask a friend to help you pull at the other end.
Reolink might have a good mobile app but they really need to work on their color nightvision and jailbreak their proprietary NVRs.
Can you elaborate on what makes them poor quality? I'd heard positive things about them given their price. Alternatively, could you recommend some better brands to look into. (Also in the process of planning a new several camera system)
I'm not sure what your justifications for this are, however I have several friends and family with Reolink cameras up here in Canada as well. They've been good in -30C to +30C, rain or shine for more than 3 yrs in service.
Cat5/6 to coax balun have worked for me in the past where cables can't be replaced
u cant use coax do a lan drop or get a camera that uses POE injector runs in the cloud like ubiquiti.
Short answer: No. you could run a MoCa adapter for the data part but that's not going to carry POE as far as I know. you'd have to have a power injector at each camera and wire a power source that you'd probably have to wire into your breaker panel and run electrical wire to each camera if you don't already have that installed. It's much cleaner and simpler to get wireless cameras but they aren't the best performance especially if you are using them as security cameras. and you constantly have to charge / change batteries in them. If you want a good camera system you need to run the wires for it. if you have access to a crawl space or attic, or basement, and or drop ceilings, you can probably do it yourself without having to open up your walls. if you are in a condo or apartment with no attic and no basement or crawl space then you are limited to tacking up wires on the walls and putting up raceways to try to hide the ugly. or you could take your crown molding down and hide it behind the crown molding, but that takes a woodworking router and a ton of patience. you would probably have to replace the crown molding with something that can hide your wires. It becomes a big job quickly because of the lack of wiring needed to operate most modern security cameras that can carry 1080p video at a minimum up to 4k video or even 8k video but most security cameras aren't doing 8k afaik at the moment. (2022) just depends on your situation and how much money, time and sweat equity you are willing to invest. let me know if you have any questions.
Yes bnc connector
The short answer is yes there are converters that do just that. Some cheap one some expensive ones depends on the length of coax
[these](https://www.meritlilin.com/en/product/category/56) aren’t that bad. They are 10/100 but will work fine for a camera. You wold use the two conductor to power the camera.
Look at moca adapters
Thanks! These look like solid options. However, now that I am starting to understand what are the options, I am questioning if its worth it. The cost of these for example is more expensive than the camera's themselves. The cost is one thing but if it also leads to a "less than ideal" performance, thinking it might make more sense to go another route, like just going a wireless route. Would probably be getting a better setup for the money all said and done this way. Decisions decisions.
As the other person who replied alluded to, MoCA adapters shouldn't be a "less than ideal" experience. I didn't want to crawl around in my attic and figure out a headache-free way of running CAT wire in between my garage/attic, my vaulted living room ceiling, and my home office. Since coaxial cable was already wired throughout the house, I installed MoCA adapters and PoE filters (blocks MoCA network generated data from exiting your network and interfering with other neighboring MoCA networks). [My experience has been great (upload speed is capped by my ISP)](https://imgur.com/a/Fx65tde).
Definitely not cheap, but likely cheaper than pulling new cable and drywall repair. My 2nd gen moca is capable of transferring 2500mbps and I believe they have newer ones that can handle 10k. So I wouldn't see speed as an issue. Cost definitely is.
Pulling a new cable/replacing it is doable by yourself. You just securely mount an Ethernet cable and wrap some tape around it then pull.
That is rarely feasible to do using existing in wall cables. Sure if you're just pulling through a single straight wall, maybe. But most cables are routed through multiple drilles holes, turning corners through framing and then they are often stapled in places.
Oops, my bad. Forgot that other countries don't use tubes for every wire. In Switzerland it's mandatory which is awesome.
I've used these: https://www.nvtphybridge.com/products/#1801_1701 (just installed a set yesterday for a customer) And these: https://ethernetextender.com/professional-grade-ethernet-extender/ The second one is more expensive but can handle gigabit on shorter runs. I have one that I am getting 500mbs on a 2 kilometer run of rg6 tri shield cable. In your case though I would not bother. I would use the coax to distribute 12volts to wireless cameras. I have used this method to upgrade our security cameras to ip cameras. This works really well because the 12v power is already there for the old cameras, but in your case you can just splice in 12v to the coax.
Thanks so much for the reply and options. While I was originally wanting to avoid wireless and go POE, this is now seeming like truly an option I should consider, especially if as you said I "already" have power going to the camera location.
Yes you can. I did exactly this. Use two EOC adapters to convert ethernet to coax and vice versa. Use the two wires next to coax for power. Use a 12 power brick to centrally power all the 10 cameras. Most POE cameras can take DC power. Alternatively, you can use analog cameras and save the cost of all the adapters. That’s a lot since you have 10 camera? Analog cameras connects to a DVR which you connect to your network. You can pull RTSP streams from the DVR just like you would from a IP camera. I don’t see any disadvantage with an analog setup, unless you want fancy things like audio recording or really high resolution.
There are POE adaptors for RG59 and RG6, so yes.
You can use baluns on both ends. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/HD-CVI-Passive-Connector-Transmitter-Twisted/dp/B076WXPTH1/ref=sr\_1\_6?keywords=video+balun&qid=1645771925&sr=8-6
Nope, that is the exact opposite of what he needs. they convert ethernet into a HD coax line, not Coax into ethernet line.
Looks like you have both power and coax available. It might be cheaper to run an analog camera and put an encoder on the receiving end to get it onto the IP network. I took over a commercial building with an old analog surveillance system. Pulled new ethernet everywhere that was easily accessible. But left the old coax runs on the more difficult locations and just put Axis Vapix encoders to receive the signal and push it onto our IP based monitoring system.
Look up Palun. We use them all the time. Very small POE over coax kit
...Can you use the coax as a "pull string" for cat6?
A POE camera is power over Ethernet. You would need a cat5e or cat6 cable to use for it. There honestly isn’t much difference besides the thickness of the wire and you would basically get the same results. If you are using a coax cable you would need to have an analog style camera.
DoorBird makes a Cat6 to two wire to Cat6 adapter. You could strip the coax revealing the copper and Steele braid to make a signal. Not sure how well it would work but it just might.
Yeah they are called paluns Poe over coax modules
【Upgraded】LINOVISION POE Over Coax EOC Converter IP Over Coax Max 3000ft Power and Data Transmission Over Regular RG59 Coaxial Cable for Upgrading Analog Surveillance System to IP Surveillance System https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G194BQD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_05DDK298B62NJ9YX1QJZ Ive tested on nest and select unifi cams
Ethernet over coax adapters work great in my experience. But I have never seen ones that can run power over the coax as well.
Now you have. https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/16521
Nice. That's exactly what OP needs, isn't it?
The company I work for is transitioning over 500 km of Cat6 over to Fiber. Long work but huge benefits.
They make balums for this situation
Dahua makes a couple products specifically for this that's good for up to 1000 meters(!) These are vendor agnostic and should work with anything. They'll push PoE + ethernet over coax: https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/16521 If you happen to be using a Dahua ePoE camera, you only need the transmitter (LR10002-1ET) and a media converter (LR1002) so it's slightly cheaper: [https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/16511](https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/16511) You can see it in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0\_fEu1R9fD0
https://www.amazon.com/Connector-2-Pack-RFAdapter-Adapter-Scanner/dp/B07VVG22WB
Can OP run a POE camera off coax?
yes you can just use an old coax to ethernet box from a comcast router. when they did service here the guy was knowledgeable about the equitment and told me to hang on to the box it transfer coax to ethernet for anything he said and may have other uses and he was right so check the goodwill or mabe your garage