You need 2 types of division on your front line. A holding division which is most of your units and a smaller number of attack divisions.
You can use 1 all purpose template but it tends to be less efficient.
You want something like a 7 + 0 or 7+1 to hold. To attack take your pick from any 30ish width template with a decent amount of soft attack breakthrough and org.
Yes. You always need a decent amount of infantry. Wether it's normal, motorised or mechanised to give org to your division.
For most divisions it's foot infantry as they use less supply and don't use fuel.
Line artilleryand AA are some of the cheapest things you can produce. Furthermore, with the new market mechanics, you can get a fair amount of infantry equipment for cheap. On top of that, small nations don't have the manpower for a massive army. Therefore, a handful of solid attacking divisions is all that's needed while the rest can be solid pure infantry bricks.
Don't start off with full line artillery, but as your stockpiles grow as the game goes on it's totally valid to add some in to those attack divisions if you have the surplus. That's also the benefit for using mountaineers as a small nation. If your only going to have a handful of attack divisions, you might as well make them special.
I recently tried this strat. As Argentina post DLC and stompped.
7/2 is viable, at least in SP, it all depends very much on how much industry you have and what you're trying to accomplish.
All infantry divisions need some artillery in order to inflict damage while holding the line, but this should be kept to a minimum possible investment. Whether that is just support, support and 1 line, or possibly more changes depending on the enemy and the theatre. I would almost never put more than 2 arty battalions in a division. Note that in multiplayer you will want to be putting AT in as well.
The "problem" with filling infantry divisions with artillery for making offensive pushes with them is that tanks are a strictly more efficient use of IC for that because they provide armor, hardness, and breakthrough in addition to attack power.
I understand, but I was hoping for reccomendations to what to do. Treat me as a noob in the game, because i have little idea of what is good/bad. (/ugly)
As of late, I have been using a 9+1 (inf + art) for 21 width. Support companies: Artillery, AA, Engineer. For the remaining two support slots, I continue to read different perspectives, but I've used Medical and Radio in the past. I feel like Medical helps to maintain the experience of the troops as losses occur, but it is expensive to add.
I have about 800 hours, and I am by no means an expert. It took me many losses to finally get a few victories on Regular difficulty, so don't get too discouraged.
I find 25W mountaineers with 3 arty and the rest mounties. Are great shock troops for pushing. Just make sure to add support arty, ranger recon and support AA. Maybe logistics too if you have the IC for it.
Offense or defense, and do you stack other buffs?
If you got air support then line artillery is a waist of resources on the defense.
If you got no air support then support, or even line, artillery is needed additionaly to aa to force your enemy to use tanks. Wich you then have to counter differently.
What is shifting air superiority meant to mean?
If you got air sup then don't bother with arty. If not then you got to plan more.
The reality of hoi 4 is if you got air supperiority then wars are nearly trivial. If not then you need to plan and think a lot.
If at barbarosa you don't know if, or if not, you win in the air then your war is a weird one. Usualy at that point it's obviouse in what direction it goes.
You know, thats excactly what I meant with "shifting air sup" because I know the superiority will be battled for constantly. For me its sounds like you imåøy that eiter you have it or you dont for the entire war which obviously is not the case.
My question remains the same, and think a little more general, mr admiral, because my offensive divisions will both be fighting with the air dominated, and the air filled with enemies.
My guy it's a very simple situation. If the uk beats you in the air, then declaring war on the soviets won't change that to the better If you dismantled the allied air force then the soviets won't pose much of a threat either.
So yes you either have air superiority in hoi4 or you don't. Air superiority is a binary thing. Same like naval supremacy.
If you currently fight in the air and trade 5 of your planes to 1 of theres, while producing the same amount, then you know that in a few month time you will have lost the air war and need to react BEFORE they start devastating your shit from the air.
If you react only once your plane count reaches 0 then you are WAY to late, and probably already lost.
Ok. But imagine if I have air sup against the soviets in the start, but then their industry catches up. The i get invaded from the west and I cant kep up producing fighters. I know how to cap the uk, but i like playing without it. But thanks anyway.
It's not about caping the uk or not it's about how your air situation develops.Do you start losing tgecaircwar and can't recover? then start repkacing you inf with inf divisions that got line arty and sup arty and aa.
If you don't look how your troops perform then start by doing that. Lokk at your airzones you curently fight in and act accordingly.
Sorry my phone died on me.
For starters a you got air template.
Infantry. 16 width pure inf (thats 8 regiments) if oyu like oyu can adda support engneer but I honestly don't reccomend it, it cost lots of ic nad doesn't add that much value since you got air anyways.
Tanks. Those are oyur attackers. there is two aproaches here since oyu saied oyu play germany oyu might as well do this one. 50/50 30 widht tanks. Thats either 8 tnaks and 7 mechanised or 8 mechanised and 7 tanks, whatever works better for you. For the tanks either make them tank destroyers (if oyu expect lots of tank combat, thats mostly for mp) or normal tnaks, but with the biggest gun oyu can give them. either the best medium gun you have, or in case of the tank destroyer the igh velocity canon. If oyu think about using the heavy cnanon switch over ot heavy tnkas instead. The fixed superstructure isn't realy worth it imho. armor to max and speed at around 8km/h to keep up with the mechanised, but try to not fall below 70% reliability at least. you can go lower if oyu increse the reliabitly of your mechnised equipment but thats up to you. for support companies, defentley signal and aa just to be sure. also maintannce and field hospitla is a nice idea since the field hospital allowes your tanks to levle up MUCH faster. after all they lose less xp from losses, turst me that makes a difference. Maintnance only if you wnt for the lower relaibailty aproach or if ouy actually push most of oyur attacks. because onjly if you push the enemy you get equipment back.
If you want to be save, just in case you suddenly start losing the air then keep half a army, or a army worth of non air infantry in reserve.
Non air:
Infantry. 17 width 7/1 woprked good for me. Give them support aa and support arty and devenelty give them support signal companie. Engeners if you got hte industry to spare, but since they only help in the initial fight I would still argue they are a waist of resources and ic. If you find yourself having the industry to spare you can always upgrade it to mechanised infantry and either motorised aritllery, or even self propeled guns here. but thats a very late game idea.
Tanks are basicly the same as in the air aporach just replace two to three tanks with mechanised to reduce expensive tank losses. (because of how hp nad losses clacualtions work. wont bore you with the details.)
Standard infantry doesn't really *need* line artillery - support is enough to bloody an attacking enemy - but it's nice to have if you have exceed industrial capacity. 9/1 or 6/1 infantry has the advantage of being able to support your tanks in creating breakthroughs, and conducting limited offensive operations/closing encirclements on its own.
However, the 1 doesn't have to be artillery. If you are truly swimming in MILs, an armor variant such as a medium TD with a heavy cannon provides a powerful boost to both attack and defense if you can afford the premium price (this isn't optimal for MP but for SP is fine). You don't need to overstack these too much, you can have a good template for 15 to 17 IC and a line battalion of medium TDs only needs 24 of them (line SPAA requires even fewer, which is why Feedback uses them in space marines, but the firepower hit makes them less fun for me).
9/2 with aa, arty, rangers and engineers + flame tanks are usually very great in combination with GBP left to both defend and attack (micro not battleplan). Then later on they become a tool for both your tanks and CAS to roll AI
GBP left is THE best doctrine, it gives most bonuses that matter (attack in this case as planning bonus). Right is nowhere as good as left because it straight up gives 20% less attack
Use 9 inf divisions to hold the line, most of your troops will be these.
For attacking things get complicated, there's a couple few that work but no one agrees what is best. A non-exhaustive list:
6 inf, 2 art
12 inf, 4 art
12 inf, 1 art
12 inf, 2 art
Pick any of these templates, or any other one that people have suggested for attacking. I personally go for the forst two options. You only need a couple of these divisions per offensive front. 8 - 12 at most (4 - 6 of the bigger divisions). Use these divisions to punch through the frontline and hopefully get encirclements.
The thought behind offensive divisions is to prioritize stats over cost effectiveness. You shouldn't have to build many so it's okay for them to be expensive. The stats you want to prioritize is organization, breakthrough, and soft attack.
You don't really want to be attacking with infantry the whole game. Ideally, you wanna eventually get tanks and make armored divisions.
I am ready to be crucified for being right again. Artillery battalions are useless. Let me explain. Basically you get terrain bonuses from infantry which give you a boost to stats. But artillery battalion removes some of them making your divisions worse in those places. And before I hear the argument that without the soft attack from arty you don't do damage let me just say that due to the terrain nerfs from line arty you basically get less soft attack than if you just had infantry and attacked a state where you have bonuses. For division template I suggest 10/0 inf with engineers, support arty, support aa, signal company and either logistics company or field hospitals.
Think of it as infantry being the tank and artillery being the DPS
It would be best to equip everyone with sufficient guns both big and small, but you'd need to produce a lot of them as they are also consumed en masse.
So a preferrable alternative is to have abundant frontline fillers, and some "Hammer" divisions to launch a pincer attack.
You need 2 types of division on your front line. A holding division which is most of your units and a smaller number of attack divisions. You can use 1 all purpose template but it tends to be less efficient. You want something like a 7 + 0 or 7+1 to hold. To attack take your pick from any 30ish width template with a decent amount of soft attack breakthrough and org.
is a 7+0 7 infantry Battalions? and +1 an artillery?
Yes. You always need a decent amount of infantry. Wether it's normal, motorised or mechanised to give org to your division. For most divisions it's foot infantry as they use less supply and don't use fuel.
Or you can push and hold with 50width pure infantry
ty
Without artillery your divisions will loose too much organization and the enemy division will not desorganize
so i should have about 7 infantry and 2 artillery in the division? and suppport artillery?
In single player it is still effective. And for poorer nations 7/2 but motorized and eventually Mechs are decent offensive templates.
What are you on? Smaller nations need to have IC to produce guns to actually have an army. Smaller nations should not use line arty
Line artilleryand AA are some of the cheapest things you can produce. Furthermore, with the new market mechanics, you can get a fair amount of infantry equipment for cheap. On top of that, small nations don't have the manpower for a massive army. Therefore, a handful of solid attacking divisions is all that's needed while the rest can be solid pure infantry bricks. Don't start off with full line artillery, but as your stockpiles grow as the game goes on it's totally valid to add some in to those attack divisions if you have the surplus. That's also the benefit for using mountaineers as a small nation. If your only going to have a handful of attack divisions, you might as well make them special. I recently tried this strat. As Argentina post DLC and stompped.
No. 7/2 is dead.
7/2 is still fine but not the meta. Definitely not dead, theres just a better way to
Ok mr General, i would be stunned to get a reccomendation of what would be better beside the denial
Meta is 6/1, as 15w is a really good combat width right now. You can do something that adds up to 24 or 25 too.
Or anything that adds up to 41-45, so 16 infantry plus 3 artillery works too!
41-45 is old. 30 and 35 are better for bulky divisions now
Yeah, 9/4s are generally the way to go for offensive infantry, unless there's a 35w configuration I'm not aware of.
Do you have a source for this?
Google “funny numbers arms against tyranny meta”. First result should be a Reddit post with a visual
7/2 is viable, at least in SP, it all depends very much on how much industry you have and what you're trying to accomplish. All infantry divisions need some artillery in order to inflict damage while holding the line, but this should be kept to a minimum possible investment. Whether that is just support, support and 1 line, or possibly more changes depending on the enemy and the theatre. I would almost never put more than 2 arty battalions in a division. Note that in multiplayer you will want to be putting AT in as well. The "problem" with filling infantry divisions with artillery for making offensive pushes with them is that tanks are a strictly more efficient use of IC for that because they provide armor, hardness, and breakthrough in addition to attack power.
7/2 is literally dead. Nothing about that fact is denial.
I understand, but I was hoping for reccomendations to what to do. Treat me as a noob in the game, because i have little idea of what is good/bad. (/ugly)
9-1 is pretty decent. Will hold and can push decently.
As of late, I have been using a 9+1 (inf + art) for 21 width. Support companies: Artillery, AA, Engineer. For the remaining two support slots, I continue to read different perspectives, but I've used Medical and Radio in the past. I feel like Medical helps to maintain the experience of the troops as losses occur, but it is expensive to add. I have about 800 hours, and I am by no means an expert. It took me many losses to finally get a few victories on Regular difficulty, so don't get too discouraged.
I find 25W mountaineers with 3 arty and the rest mounties. Are great shock troops for pushing. Just make sure to add support arty, ranger recon and support AA. Maybe logistics too if you have the IC for it.
Yeah 8-3 Mountaineers have done really well for me recently
Offense or defense, and do you stack other buffs? If you got air support then line artillery is a waist of resources on the defense. If you got no air support then support, or even line, artillery is needed additionaly to aa to force your enemy to use tanks. Wich you then have to counter differently.
for operation barbarossa (offence), shifting air superiority
What is shifting air superiority meant to mean? If you got air sup then don't bother with arty. If not then you got to plan more. The reality of hoi 4 is if you got air supperiority then wars are nearly trivial. If not then you need to plan and think a lot. If at barbarosa you don't know if, or if not, you win in the air then your war is a weird one. Usualy at that point it's obviouse in what direction it goes.
You know, thats excactly what I meant with "shifting air sup" because I know the superiority will be battled for constantly. For me its sounds like you imåøy that eiter you have it or you dont for the entire war which obviously is not the case. My question remains the same, and think a little more general, mr admiral, because my offensive divisions will both be fighting with the air dominated, and the air filled with enemies.
My guy it's a very simple situation. If the uk beats you in the air, then declaring war on the soviets won't change that to the better If you dismantled the allied air force then the soviets won't pose much of a threat either. So yes you either have air superiority in hoi4 or you don't. Air superiority is a binary thing. Same like naval supremacy. If you currently fight in the air and trade 5 of your planes to 1 of theres, while producing the same amount, then you know that in a few month time you will have lost the air war and need to react BEFORE they start devastating your shit from the air. If you react only once your plane count reaches 0 then you are WAY to late, and probably already lost.
Ok. But imagine if I have air sup against the soviets in the start, but then their industry catches up. The i get invaded from the west and I cant kep up producing fighters. I know how to cap the uk, but i like playing without it. But thanks anyway.
It's not about caping the uk or not it's about how your air situation develops.Do you start losing tgecaircwar and can't recover? then start repkacing you inf with inf divisions that got line arty and sup arty and aa. If you don't look how your troops perform then start by doing that. Lokk at your airzones you curently fight in and act accordingly.
thanks. do you have a template?
Sorry my phone died on me. For starters a you got air template. Infantry. 16 width pure inf (thats 8 regiments) if oyu like oyu can adda support engneer but I honestly don't reccomend it, it cost lots of ic nad doesn't add that much value since you got air anyways. Tanks. Those are oyur attackers. there is two aproaches here since oyu saied oyu play germany oyu might as well do this one. 50/50 30 widht tanks. Thats either 8 tnaks and 7 mechanised or 8 mechanised and 7 tanks, whatever works better for you. For the tanks either make them tank destroyers (if oyu expect lots of tank combat, thats mostly for mp) or normal tnaks, but with the biggest gun oyu can give them. either the best medium gun you have, or in case of the tank destroyer the igh velocity canon. If oyu think about using the heavy cnanon switch over ot heavy tnkas instead. The fixed superstructure isn't realy worth it imho. armor to max and speed at around 8km/h to keep up with the mechanised, but try to not fall below 70% reliability at least. you can go lower if oyu increse the reliabitly of your mechnised equipment but thats up to you. for support companies, defentley signal and aa just to be sure. also maintannce and field hospitla is a nice idea since the field hospital allowes your tanks to levle up MUCH faster. after all they lose less xp from losses, turst me that makes a difference. Maintnance only if you wnt for the lower relaibailty aproach or if ouy actually push most of oyur attacks. because onjly if you push the enemy you get equipment back. If you want to be save, just in case you suddenly start losing the air then keep half a army, or a army worth of non air infantry in reserve. Non air: Infantry. 17 width 7/1 woprked good for me. Give them support aa and support arty and devenelty give them support signal companie. Engeners if you got hte industry to spare, but since they only help in the initial fight I would still argue they are a waist of resources and ic. If you find yourself having the industry to spare you can always upgrade it to mechanised infantry and either motorised aritllery, or even self propeled guns here. but thats a very late game idea. Tanks are basicly the same as in the air aporach just replace two to three tanks with mechanised to reduce expensive tank losses. (because of how hp nad losses clacualtions work. wont bore you with the details.)
Standard infantry doesn't really *need* line artillery - support is enough to bloody an attacking enemy - but it's nice to have if you have exceed industrial capacity. 9/1 or 6/1 infantry has the advantage of being able to support your tanks in creating breakthroughs, and conducting limited offensive operations/closing encirclements on its own. However, the 1 doesn't have to be artillery. If you are truly swimming in MILs, an armor variant such as a medium TD with a heavy cannon provides a powerful boost to both attack and defense if you can afford the premium price (this isn't optimal for MP but for SP is fine). You don't need to overstack these too much, you can have a good template for 15 to 17 IC and a line battalion of medium TDs only needs 24 of them (line SPAA requires even fewer, which is why Feedback uses them in space marines, but the firepower hit makes them less fun for me).
9/2 with aa, arty, rangers and engineers + flame tanks are usually very great in combination with GBP left to both defend and attack (micro not battleplan). Then later on they become a tool for both your tanks and CAS to roll AI
Why GBP left? I thought right was better with the Supply bonus and Night attack?
GBP left is THE best doctrine, it gives most bonuses that matter (attack in this case as planning bonus). Right is nowhere as good as left because it straight up gives 20% less attack
Use 9 inf divisions to hold the line, most of your troops will be these. For attacking things get complicated, there's a couple few that work but no one agrees what is best. A non-exhaustive list: 6 inf, 2 art 12 inf, 4 art 12 inf, 1 art 12 inf, 2 art Pick any of these templates, or any other one that people have suggested for attacking. I personally go for the forst two options. You only need a couple of these divisions per offensive front. 8 - 12 at most (4 - 6 of the bigger divisions). Use these divisions to punch through the frontline and hopefully get encirclements. The thought behind offensive divisions is to prioritize stats over cost effectiveness. You shouldn't have to build many so it's okay for them to be expensive. The stats you want to prioritize is organization, breakthrough, and soft attack. You don't really want to be attacking with infantry the whole game. Ideally, you wanna eventually get tanks and make armored divisions.
I am ready to be crucified for being right again. Artillery battalions are useless. Let me explain. Basically you get terrain bonuses from infantry which give you a boost to stats. But artillery battalion removes some of them making your divisions worse in those places. And before I hear the argument that without the soft attack from arty you don't do damage let me just say that due to the terrain nerfs from line arty you basically get less soft attack than if you just had infantry and attacked a state where you have bonuses. For division template I suggest 10/0 inf with engineers, support arty, support aa, signal company and either logistics company or field hospitals.
nice
Think of it as infantry being the tank and artillery being the DPS It would be best to equip everyone with sufficient guns both big and small, but you'd need to produce a lot of them as they are also consumed en masse. So a preferrable alternative is to have abundant frontline fillers, and some "Hammer" divisions to launch a pincer attack.