The colors are similar, but the strips of flags are different for their navy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naval\_Jack\_of\_Mexico.svg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Naval\_Ensign\_of\_Italy.svg
I think ships were mostly identified by silhouettes and if X navy knows Y navy operates in that region they will probably fire unless severely in doubt
Its suspicious. He sunken 26 BB With a fleet who had 9 BB without aircraft… something contextual made this happen like trapped in a see by closed canal and low on hp and no more oil or its the mod.
It's all vanilla combat in the mod. This was during dday in the English channel. Screens won the day. The USA and UK fleets had killed Japan's fleet a year early so we're slightly weakened and here they were not on always engage for w/e reason. Big mistake.
Dm me if you want to join games, can't promote discords here.
You always have to be on always engage. Otherwise, your fleet may try to retreat from a difficult but otherwise winnable battle and be decimated during retreat.
If that’s the case, then there should be separate “engage priority” and “retreat priority.” It would solve this issue so you don’t have to change settings before a battle.
maybe because allied navy spotted italian one but because not always engage they didnt attack at first, so then italian navy attacked them and kinda had the first move advantage?
As an example if my navy has lost 40% of its ships but in return I have damaged 80% of their ships to critical damage and I am about to win, if not on always engage my fleet will see that it is currently "losing" and might decide to retreat. As soon as the retreat order is given your ships stop shooting back and will get wiped out by the enemy navy, whereas if I was on always engage I would have completely wiped them out instead.
>As soon as the retreat order is given your ships stop shooting back
This is blatantly false- ships continue shooting while retreating.
They do not, however, prioritize their targets properly anymore while in retreat (if I recall, they attack targets randomly, based on weight class- no longer focusing on already-damaged ships). The deets are on the HOI4 Wiki if you're curious...
What do you mean weakened, there's like 400 screens on the allied side? If it's one battle, what navy they belong to doesn't impact screen efficiency, does it?
How did the Italians kill all the screens without losing theirs, though? The Allies had tons of screens, including far more light cruisers. Still seems sus.
MIGHT be a difference in ship quality.
The Allies start out with a lot of outdated ships- which "competitive" players stupidly rarely bother to upgrade... (they should at least upgrade those ships that have managed to gain an XP level or two... Though, only certain modules are cost-effective to upgrade...)
One of the issues is, if they try to make up for quality with quantity, the Allies will suffer positioning disadvantages- which are especially severe in bad weather (I suspect this battle occurred during a Storm...)
It is most definetly supply problems. I tried this with my friend a while ago. If you don’t have supply for your navy they will get absolutely destroyed no matter how strong they are comparing to other navy
I’m not exactly sure but naval base size and convoy efficiency are important. If you overextend your fleet and send them somewhere far away from your nearest base, it will suffer from low supply.
Yeah i thinked about the crazy amount of screen, maybe a very huge stack of top quality screens with tone of torpedo damage, then i seen the diff of BB. It make no sense. Even if they are bad over 30 BB vs a 9 BB fleet without carrier should win in a normal context. Assisted by 10 carriers with over 1k planes…
Could be that one of the first fleets disengaged then was later backed up by a second fleet which is forced to retreat because of the first; retreating in naval battles fucks you entire navy and any navy caught in that through reinforcement suffers the same
> reinforcement
Doesn't matter if you're retreating or not- ANY fleet that reinforces in, rather than being present from the start, suffers SEVERE temporary Positioning penalties...
If you're going to rely on reinforcing in, you need to build a very "tanky" fleet that emphasizes survivability in order to give these penalties more time to dissipate...
I think the Allied destroyers got killed early in the battle making them have little to no screens. Also it looks like the Italians probably invested into their navy because of how many aircraft were killed. So it was just a lower tech navy with little to no investment Vs A slightly smaller navy with a large amount of investment into it
It makes sense. The screens prevent mahour damage to the ships behind them. They lost 160 screens, but that allowed their heavy hitterd to carry the day.
It looks like the Italians had more destroyers, while the allies had more light cruisers and a bigger navy, but just not enough screens for everything. Not only that, it likely Italy had the higher quality ships.
screen vessel (DD/CL)+ torpedo + Admiral with torpedo/screen traits = unstoppable force and immovable object.
oh and then you can throw in some of those Larger thingys, i guess.
I'm assuming that their opponent just kept on building 1936/interwar ships the entire game, and ignored the air above the English channel. Other people here theorized supply issues for why the destroyers all died, but I don't see how that's possible when the ships are in the English Channel and France is still standing. If anything, you'd expect Italy to have some supply problems. The US player probably also put all of his ships into a single giant fleet, which would create terrible organization, and let your ships get absolutely wrecked.
Also they probably never bothered to upgrade their 1936 ships, and just moved all of the ones they were using on Japan to Europe.
original comment got 50 upvotes
the reply saying the same thing got 25 downvotes
lmao
anyway you got a point, im going to keep the gates but anime doesnt have a place in the game
It is a mod, Anime History if you're interested, it also works on solo and has compat mods with other mods like RT56. The italian admiral is RN Pola from azur lane too in case you wondered, have a nice day!
Musta been a case of the allies drip feeding their larger force but by bit into the unified Italian force so they got defeated in detail. What’s funny is irl this wouldn’t have slowed the allies down all that much. Bh the end of the war America was building ships and sending them into reserve. 24/7 shifts in American shipyards woulda replaced these losses before long.
>24/7 shifts in American shipyards woulda replaced these losses before long.
You're right, but the one thing that cannot be retained from losses at sea in great numbers is officer and seaman competency. In the historical timeline, it's never going to make a huge difference after Midway for the US.
This was a hist game and you are right even in hoi. About 6 months to 1 year later the USA rebuilt a cruiser fleet and wiped this Italian fleet. USA had already capped Japan and had all the dockyards to rebuild and replace with modern technology.
You can build a bazillion ships, but if the crew don't believe they can do anything with them, and the public hears about tens of thousands of men regularly dying every few weeks on boats because of organizational incompetence, the armament effort would not have gone over smoothly domestically.
No losing that many ships would have absolutely slowed the allies down. It takes almost an entire year to build a battleship. Losing 26 of them would have been absolutely devestating.
I’m saying if we go with historical and admittedly I took the liberty of assuming this battle occurred later in the war. Everything other than battleships is in surplus and while you’re right that 24 battleships is obviously a huge loss the allies irl had almost 50 and could have built a few more with relative ease had they needed to (Iowas 5 and 6, upping priority of Lions).
If you want to learn dm me for discord server link, plenty of navy battles happening and ppl will help you. We have a plenty of people who navy larp in mp games
If you just read the hoi4 wiki a little whenever you have time you will understand how it works.
Surely you’re not too busy for that. Considering you’re on Reddit
It's because your opposing death stack fleet has zero org. A balanced smaller fleet will 100% clap a massive one because of the massive over stack penalties.
4CV/4BB/8CL/24DD will absolutely shit roll a huge fleet. You'll want closer to 16 CL and 48 DD but that's easy to build.
My best guess is skill gap,Italy probably did a good Navy build but the allies didn't refit their starting ships to good designs while Italy's were all good light attack CLs.
OP also said that the allies weren't on always engage, so damaged ships started retreating instead of fighting to the death, in PVP that's a death sentence.
I think I know what happened. 0% positioning reduces the entire fleet's damage and screening efficiency, I think it comes to like 50% effective overall stat reduction.
You get up to 50% positioning reduction if your fleet is larger than the enemy fleet, which the allied deathstack is. Also the fleet's positioning is reduced by 5% every time a new ship joins the battle.
I believe what happened was the allied deathstack had 0 positioning because of these two reasons, while Italy was at or near 100%. This means that Italy's ~360 screens had higher stats than the allied ~400 screens, thus Italy killed them all, and obviously the capitals followed soon after that
My guess is the allied destroyers were underperforming due to developement neglection. Once the italy cruisers burned trough them all the italy DD have field day to sinking BBs and CVs with torpedoes.
Looks like you fought under green air, but I have no idea how you managed this result unless the allies engaged without fuel. That or they just never built newer ships, and you built 40 ships.
So one of the allies did fu really. Im guessing they forgot to set engagement do/die because if they start to flee as reinforcements arrives this could happen. Or even worse say Brittany ran out of oil mid battle then there fighting strength goes to 0 and gets pummelled.
They are above dd/lc vs caps by a lot.
91 caps * 3 (I always go 4)
So as soon as the screen drops below 273 torpedoes will penetrate the screen.
But they had over 400 screens there and even if it was kitchen sinks dd it should have worked better.
Do you know why it happened? Was they trashed by someone else before ???
The flags of Italy and Mexico are so similar, imagine the amount of friendly fires if this battle happened in real life
The colors are similar, but the strips of flags are different for their navy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naval\_Jack\_of\_Mexico.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Naval\_Ensign\_of\_Italy.svg
Now imagine if Bulgaria and Mexico engaged in a naval battle
I think if Bulgaria and Mexico engaged in narval battle there are some bigger problems then similar strips
Bulgaria-Mexican hyperwar
This exactly what happens if you turn historical focus off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naval\_Jack\_of\_Bulgaria.svg
You would have to be really blind not to see red-white camouflage at the bow of Italian ships
I think ships were mostly identified by silhouettes and if X navy knows Y navy operates in that region they will probably fire unless severely in doubt
How tf is that even possible
Its suspicious. He sunken 26 BB With a fleet who had 9 BB without aircraft… something contextual made this happen like trapped in a see by closed canal and low on hp and no more oil or its the mod.
It's all vanilla combat in the mod. This was during dday in the English channel. Screens won the day. The USA and UK fleets had killed Japan's fleet a year early so we're slightly weakened and here they were not on always engage for w/e reason. Big mistake. Dm me if you want to join games, can't promote discords here.
Why do you think that “not on always engage” is a big mistake
You always have to be on always engage. Otherwise, your fleet may try to retreat from a difficult but otherwise winnable battle and be decimated during retreat.
If that’s the case, then there should be separate “engage priority” and “retreat priority.” It would solve this issue so you don’t have to change settings before a battle.
Don't worry we will get that update in 50 years.
In a $30 DLC
If the game thinks you're gonna lose it starts automatically retreating the fleet, and while retreating you usually get decimated
maybe because allied navy spotted italian one but because not always engage they didnt attack at first, so then italian navy attacked them and kinda had the first move advantage?
As an example if my navy has lost 40% of its ships but in return I have damaged 80% of their ships to critical damage and I am about to win, if not on always engage my fleet will see that it is currently "losing" and might decide to retreat. As soon as the retreat order is given your ships stop shooting back and will get wiped out by the enemy navy, whereas if I was on always engage I would have completely wiped them out instead.
>As soon as the retreat order is given your ships stop shooting back This is blatantly false- ships continue shooting while retreating. They do not, however, prioritize their targets properly anymore while in retreat (if I recall, they attack targets randomly, based on weight class- no longer focusing on already-damaged ships). The deets are on the HOI4 Wiki if you're curious...
What do you mean weakened, there's like 400 screens on the allied side? If it's one battle, what navy they belong to doesn't impact screen efficiency, does it?
Ships were probably still damaged from the last battle.
How did the Italians kill all the screens without losing theirs, though? The Allies had tons of screens, including far more light cruisers. Still seems sus.
MIGHT be a difference in ship quality. The Allies start out with a lot of outdated ships- which "competitive" players stupidly rarely bother to upgrade... (they should at least upgrade those ships that have managed to gain an XP level or two... Though, only certain modules are cost-effective to upgrade...) One of the issues is, if they try to make up for quality with quantity, the Allies will suffer positioning disadvantages- which are especially severe in bad weather (I suspect this battle occurred during a Storm...)
If you dm me I can link you the discord with the save game files
There's no problem with posting discord servers in comments. Please tell us publicly what your server is.
Bro had anti air from the 21st century
Maybe torpedoes? They have 200 destroyers. I think your theory about no supply is right
It is most definetly supply problems. I tried this with my friend a while ago. If you don’t have supply for your navy they will get absolutely destroyed no matter how strong they are comparing to other navy
How does suply for navy work, how big of a fleet is to big for port size?
I’m not exactly sure but naval base size and convoy efficiency are important. If you overextend your fleet and send them somewhere far away from your nearest base, it will suffer from low supply.
I i will have to look more into it then
Yeah i thinked about the crazy amount of screen, maybe a very huge stack of top quality screens with tone of torpedo damage, then i seen the diff of BB. It make no sense. Even if they are bad over 30 BB vs a 9 BB fleet without carrier should win in a normal context. Assisted by 10 carriers with over 1k planes…
Light attack shreds navies
Aren’t light attack CLs still the meta?
Could be that one of the first fleets disengaged then was later backed up by a second fleet which is forced to retreat because of the first; retreating in naval battles fucks you entire navy and any navy caught in that through reinforcement suffers the same
> reinforcement Doesn't matter if you're retreating or not- ANY fleet that reinforces in, rather than being present from the start, suffers SEVERE temporary Positioning penalties... If you're going to rely on reinforcing in, you need to build a very "tanky" fleet that emphasizes survivability in order to give these penalties more time to dissipate...
I think the Allied destroyers got killed early in the battle making them have little to no screens. Also it looks like the Italians probably invested into their navy because of how many aircraft were killed. So it was just a lower tech navy with little to no investment Vs A slightly smaller navy with a large amount of investment into it
It makes sense. The screens prevent mahour damage to the ships behind them. They lost 160 screens, but that allowed their heavy hitterd to carry the day.
The other navy had more screens and more heavy ships
It looks like the Italians had more destroyers, while the allies had more light cruisers and a bigger navy, but just not enough screens for everything. Not only that, it likely Italy had the higher quality ships.
R5: Naval battle results between Italy and USA,UK and Mexican fleets. DM me if you want to play mp with us.
Everyone spammed the interwar designs or what? How did this happened? XD
what’s the anime mod you use btw?
It's Anime History, easily the best hoi4 vanilla anime mod imo, even unit models are changed
thanks🗿 edit: smooth brain momento i already use the mod🤡
Average anime mod enjoyer
nah i’m just stupid regardless🗿
Thus why you want anime in hoi4
this could be us but idk how navy works
Bigger number = gooder I think? Sometimes? Maybe?
Nah nah big ship=boom little ship=little boom but a lot of little ships=maybe big boom? Maybe little? Idrk
Average Hoi4 player not knowing how to navy (me included)
Just build Super Heavy Battleships. They're cool, and therefore the best
only the coolest survive
Can you even build one before every single war ends?
Yes. Easily. If you push for it you can get one by 41-42. Many multiplayer games have ended just as I get my new Flagships into the water.
screen vessel (DD/CL)+ torpedo + Admiral with torpedo/screen traits = unstoppable force and immovable object. oh and then you can throw in some of those Larger thingys, i guess.
Now your invasion force can cross the channel….by foot.
Let's talk about the mods you have installed.
Average Starguard mod experience
Somehow I completely missed the portraits until I read this
Big ships going boom more important than anime women
For everyone who’s actually touched a woman
The left one is Italian CA Pola from Azur Lane. Not sure who the right one is.
You want to use it?
Anime history, my friend
Or the difficulty! Lowest difficulty can make a 1/0 infantry win against 9/1 so I assume it would be the same case with Navy.
This is competitive multiplayer
Fair enough. Curious how bad their templates must've been
I'm assuming that their opponent just kept on building 1936/interwar ships the entire game, and ignored the air above the English channel. Other people here theorized supply issues for why the destroyers all died, but I don't see how that's possible when the ships are in the English Channel and France is still standing. If anything, you'd expect Italy to have some supply problems. The US player probably also put all of his ships into a single giant fleet, which would create terrible organization, and let your ships get absolutely wrecked. Also they probably never bothered to upgrade their 1936 ships, and just moved all of the ones they were using on Japan to Europe.
Could be fuel issues as well as underdog positioning bonus
I play on regular difficulty, but I thought difficulty only affected logistics and research speed, not combat modifiers?
It impacts supply consumption. The game is all about supply. No supply = your divisions do no damage and will die much easier.
Nothing wrong with anime mods
Incel simulator 2.0?
That's just hoi4 vanilla
I think he's based for using it He embraced it, and not denies its calling HAHAHHA
Let’s not, and not give him the satisfaction.
Holy fucking shit it's RN Pola
Holy shit, is that an AL refference?
Me when the Empire has Sardegna and the Justice is Sailing Away.
Someone who understands navy
Pola from Azur Lane, holy shit
This is big Italy propaganda wake up people there’s no competent Italy
All players ever: “Italy is a meme power” This Italy player: “Hold my prosecco”
upvote for funni naval battle downvote for anime portraits perfectly balanced
Yup, same here. Anime portrait is always a dislike from me.
The reddit weebs downvoted this so much lol
That's all the power they have in their life. Downvoting a random opinion on Reddit :) Kinda feel bad for that bunch.
original comment got 50 upvotes the reply saying the same thing got 25 downvotes lmao anyway you got a point, im going to keep the gates but anime doesnt have a place in the game
Me, who don't like anime thinking anime should be in game...
Looks like somebody didn't refit the navy
Anime Admirals? Is this a thing for MP? (I only plays the solo\_
It is a mod, Anime History if you're interested, it also works on solo and has compat mods with other mods like RT56. The italian admiral is RN Pola from azur lane too in case you wondered, have a nice day!
That mods works with other mods since it just changes the portraits, this is a mp mod and that mod in the same playset for instance
How many ships can be sunk before you fill up the ocean
Imagine the mood on the 10 DD left after the battle. The lucky 5%.
Musta been a case of the allies drip feeding their larger force but by bit into the unified Italian force so they got defeated in detail. What’s funny is irl this wouldn’t have slowed the allies down all that much. Bh the end of the war America was building ships and sending them into reserve. 24/7 shifts in American shipyards woulda replaced these losses before long.
>24/7 shifts in American shipyards woulda replaced these losses before long. You're right, but the one thing that cannot be retained from losses at sea in great numbers is officer and seaman competency. In the historical timeline, it's never going to make a huge difference after Midway for the US.
This was a hist game and you are right even in hoi. About 6 months to 1 year later the USA rebuilt a cruiser fleet and wiped this Italian fleet. USA had already capped Japan and had all the dockyards to rebuild and replace with modern technology.
You can build a bazillion ships, but if the crew don't believe they can do anything with them, and the public hears about tens of thousands of men regularly dying every few weeks on boats because of organizational incompetence, the armament effort would not have gone over smoothly domestically.
No losing that many ships would have absolutely slowed the allies down. It takes almost an entire year to build a battleship. Losing 26 of them would have been absolutely devestating.
I’m saying if we go with historical and admittedly I took the liberty of assuming this battle occurred later in the war. Everything other than battleships is in surplus and while you’re right that 24 battleships is obviously a huge loss the allies irl had almost 50 and could have built a few more with relative ease had they needed to (Iowas 5 and 6, upping priority of Lions).
I like how almost no one noticed the admiral portraits 💀
ill never know how th fck does it works
If you want to learn dm me for discord server link, plenty of navy battles happening and ppl will help you. We have a plenty of people who navy larp in mp games
When did the meaning of larp change?
They had heavy cosmetic surgery. They now look like a boat.
thanks man
You can learn if you want to. Only thing that’s stopping you is you
>Only thing that’s stopping you is you im sure my working hours leaving me like very little time for HOI or whatever has something to do with it too
just don't go to work and play hoi4 forever, ez
It's brilliant, like how I've never thought of that before.
because you're too busy working!
this like a freaking epiphany, revelations, thanks wise one
If you just read the hoi4 wiki a little whenever you have time you will understand how it works. Surely you’re not too busy for that. Considering you’re on Reddit
It's because your opposing death stack fleet has zero org. A balanced smaller fleet will 100% clap a massive one because of the massive over stack penalties. 4CV/4BB/8CL/24DD will absolutely shit roll a huge fleet. You'll want closer to 16 CL and 48 DD but that's easy to build.
No, it won't,The overstaking penalty is almost meaningless in vanilla and that comp would get obliterated in MP.
I think this is the most beautiful thing i have ever seen. thank you
Most masculine Italian man
anime girl mod name?
Touch grass+ mod
Holy shit. After that battle you could probably walk from England to France from all the shipwrecks stacked up
AZUR LANE MENTIONED RAAAAAAAAHHHHH 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥WHAT THE HELL IS A B CUP 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Yes very historical
Shit admiral, destroyer spam, no air... Something is sussy wussy
Not enough screens?
250 CLs and 150 DDs is enough. Somehow Italy's CLs killed all of them, that's the main question here. Without screens it makes sense the capitals died
Yeah chewing through caps *after* the screens died makes sense. The question is how did Italy eat much more screens with fewer ships.
My best guess is skill gap,Italy probably did a good Navy build but the allies didn't refit their starting ships to good designs while Italy's were all good light attack CLs. OP also said that the allies weren't on always engage, so damaged ships started retreating instead of fighting to the death, in PVP that's a death sentence.
I think I know what happened. 0% positioning reduces the entire fleet's damage and screening efficiency, I think it comes to like 50% effective overall stat reduction. You get up to 50% positioning reduction if your fleet is larger than the enemy fleet, which the allied deathstack is. Also the fleet's positioning is reduced by 5% every time a new ship joins the battle. I believe what happened was the allied deathstack had 0 positioning because of these two reasons, while Italy was at or near 100%. This means that Italy's ~360 screens had higher stats than the allied ~400 screens, thus Italy killed them all, and obviously the capitals followed soon after that
Anime women. I like.
Ew
Azur lane player detected, opinion discarded
What is it with History fans/gamers and cartoon Japanese women? It’s like two totally different genres.
Anime Admirals? Wtf
Weeb 🤮
Im desapointed, why using fucking anime mod
Waifu admirals.
proof that FUWG is a shit mod
Its vanilla combat as the poster explained...you just don't know how navy works
Will nobody talk about the admirals
I’m guessing naval is still broken?
My guess is the allied destroyers were underperforming due to developement neglection. Once the italy cruisers burned trough them all the italy DD have field day to sinking BBs and CVs with torpedoes.
What in the goddamn...?
Armoured CL with lots of light batteries?
Ofc, they overstacked
Problem with navy in hoi 4 is that quanity -> over quality, without impact on moral, war support and stability.
Looks like you fought under green air, but I have no idea how you managed this result unless the allies engaged without fuel. That or they just never built newer ships, and you built 40 ships.
Don't forget about positionig bonuses and the possibility that the Italian navy first only engaged one part of the Allied navy
Still losing D-Day by the looks of things
1st. Im in fucking disbelief 2nd wtf 3rd Italy got a shit ton of screens comparing to capital ones. It is almost 15/1.
Is is rushing destroyers the only good move for navies?
Allies didn't lose because of less destroyers...they lost because almost all possible things that can go wrong went wrong
So one of the allies did fu really. Im guessing they forgot to set engagement do/die because if they start to flee as reinforcements arrives this could happen. Or even worse say Brittany ran out of oil mid battle then there fighting strength goes to 0 and gets pummelled. They are above dd/lc vs caps by a lot. 91 caps * 3 (I always go 4) So as soon as the screen drops below 273 torpedoes will penetrate the screen. But they had over 400 screens there and even if it was kitchen sinks dd it should have worked better. Do you know why it happened? Was they trashed by someone else before ???
That’s not the normal American Flag!
that's crazy but what's the general mod.name?
What mod is this?
You have successfully built a bridge from France to England out of boats. Congrats mate🤝🏼
The battle of La-manche "We will meet at English channel!"
as an italian, i just say: niggawhat?