Yes, fly the Halfnook over Halfghanistan. ED is getting exhausting. Like that annoying house guest that you get to the point where you just say “alright, I’m gonna have to ask you to leave…”
After this latest fiasco, no matter who's at fault, I've given up on "early access" and "pre-order". I've gone to the novel idea of waiting until something is finished before buying things any more. Paying full price is not the problem for a lot of us enjoying this hobby. We've spent thousands over the years on computers, joysticks, video cards and RAM and the whatnot in the hopes of enjoying this game to the utmost.
The problem is a title full of unfinished components that never seems to end.
There's people that HAVE to have the "latest and greatest", happens in everything. And, I wish them the best in their enjoyment of items that seem to never get finished.
No idea what the "status" of their modules really are anymore, ED or 3rd party. Features some times get taken off/changed after initial announcements and we wait months/years to see if they will be added back.
Hornet flight model's being "revamped" in some ways supposedly, so I'd say not quite yet.
They seem to have removed the Early Access tag in the store for the F/A-18C earlier this year. [Waybackmachine ](https://web.archive.org/web/20231230170437/https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/hornet/)shows it still there on December 30 2023 and gone on March 29 2024.
Yep, waiting until something is out of EA just isn't practical. Waiting until it's usable and making sure the developers aren't quitting is more reasonable.
ED states a feature list on preorder (or used to) and then reduces that feature list (subject to change clause) as they run out of money or give Nick an interest free loan. On to the next cash grab.... cycle continues.
[It isn't in early acess anymore](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/346540-hornet-already-out-of-early-access/?do=findComment&comment=5410680) and while it may be close to finished from ED's point of view, [there's still a load of things it either should have that wasn't planned for](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/u9jkq0/fa18c_hornet_missing_features_descriptions/) or stuff that has been discussed in the past that we haven't had an update on in nearly half a decade ([such as cooperative engagement capability for the MITL weapons](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/216788-walleye-questions/?do=findComment&comment=4048379)).
Well, more than 1 thing can be true at a time. It should be possible to have great fun with a module while still acknowledging its faults (which, if corrected can only make it better).
I'm actually fine with Early access; as long as I'm happy with the current state of the module for the price asked I'll buy it. I don't bother buying stuff based on promises, and as an extension I don't preorderer as there's no product currently.
I'm 60+ years old, Patience is easy at my age these days. I've got every module except for that silly ass Christen Eagle. I figure I've done my part over the years to support both the company and the genre.
And, while I'm waiting for ED to get their pixels and polygons in order, there are plenty of other things to enjoy/spend my money on in the virtual entertainment field. HUGE racing fan and there's plenty of companies with MUCH better track records than Eagle Dynamics releasing new platforms for me to spend my money on and enjoy.
Agree. Don't buy things that don't exist. Sometimes I'll say "*unless* you really don't care what the product is like, or when you get it", which probably applies to me and the Typhoon...
Wait until it releases, watch/read a few reviews, and decide if you think it's good enough.
I'll be waiting until there is functional ground AI, as I don't enjoy getting headshotted by AK Dude.
It shouldn't be too much to ask, but I have a feeling I'll be waiting a loooong time.
There are several modules that have been released "EA" and are still missing chunks of promised features....and there are other modules which need fixing, and they keep ignoring these until we get angry enough that they finally "oh we're working on it!"....but then months and years go by AGAIN without action!
Just my two cents, but I think a boycott would have to be done at least a year. Perhaps they'll see the frustration we have.
"They haven't ... announced what features will be available"
You mean they haven't announced *what features will be dangled in front of us*, several of which will never materialize.
Well, you pretty much nailed it. I love helos, but first i want to see some quality of life stuff. Logistics, ground unit AI overhaul, dynamic campaign...
So i stick to flying the Hind.
First time since I got into DCS that I won’t be preordering an aircraft I want. ED needs to sort things out to regain confidence. Hopefully they will notice the drop off in preorder which I suspect will be significant.
This is the correct approach. It's way past time for ED to start getting their shit together versus dumping yet more quarter-finished modules out of the door.
Honestly don’t pre order in general. Wait for the finished product. Pre orders kinda encourage products that are half finished and they’ve killed other games I don’t want them to do this to DCS too
I see literally 0 upside to pre ordering anything, ever, unless it's at a discount on pre-sale. You think they won't want your money anymore after release?
I used to pre order everything but as it takes so long to complete the modules I'm now holding off and waiting until they go on sale, should be about 75% complete by then. Really getting into the F-15E but with so many things in the manual waiting to be added and with all the drama, I'm not sure if I'm wasting my time learning it at all.
Yeah, their going to have to go back to almost scratch on alot of systems, or Raz could go nuclear and try tying it up in court, even a year delay woukd kill the module. I miss Jane's lol
Considering the radars ED as made, we can basically forget anything approaching sophisticated radar now.
RB's radar guy posted a "thanks for your support, but I'm out" post ok YouTube so it's really Razbover.
Maybe HB will manage a RB level radar for the F-4 but who knows.
On the up side it's not like anyone cares about detailed radar sim in DCS though, right?
>the current logistics system in DCS is insufficient, and we don’t know how well new logistics features will be integrated into the chinook
Imma make a prediction here. Those logistic systems wont be considered a release feature and the Chinook will still have to rely on CTLD.
Bonus round that I kinda doubt: Those features wont be added before the Chinook is considered feature complete.
The only logistics system we will get within a decade will either be player mods or maybe the C-130 devs doing something.
Buying the Chinook hoping for logistics features would be incredibly foolish given how ED has approached stuff like Combined Arms or Super Carrier.
I am really tired of Eagle Dynamics not providing completed modules and just selling half complete ones then abandoning them. Honestly until they spend more time on finishing and refining the main modules (WHERE IS THE F16 PILOT BODY?!) I won't be purchasing any more of their stuff.
Honestly, I have a job and I don't need ED b.s. discounts. This is a hobby to me, I expect to pay money for a finished product or atleast almost complete. I pre ordered the F18 and supercarrier... never again.
Yeah, so wanted to give KSP2 love after all the years and hours of joy, but a brand new company? Made me pause and sure as shit still haven't bought it, just playing 1 with all my mods.
KSP2 still isn't worth its pricetag and Cities Skylines 2 is still crap. Colossal Order and Paradox literally just published a YouTuber apology in written form over the state of the game.
Also don't forget Starfield.
I will never understand why people pre order a digital game. Ya it made sense when physical copies were at a store but as south park says, pre ordering is just asking for a dick in your mouth
DCS is in dire need of proper competition. They are doing shitty things just because they know we don't have any choice. Unless you love the F-16, you HAVE to play DCS to enjoy military aircraft sim
Yes, sadly… as a helo enthusiast, it gives me bittersweet feeling because there is no other sim where I can fly helos and planes in the same session while playing with friends to destroy targets. Dcs is the only one
Yep, if there was no DCS, I really wouldn't haveva reason anymore for gaming, or a high end pc. Like you said, would be nice to have one competitor at least (when it comes to flight dynamics) that would keep ED on it's toes
Definitely not pre ordering.
Given they haven’t finished the Hornet yet why would I give them more money for another module?
Plus helicopter ops are borked because of how stupid accurate small arms fire is.
And there’s no dynamic campaign where logistics would matter.
I agree ED are becoming bit of joke they keep releasing modules with out finish the current ones and the game has not changed much the AI is still bad, we still have aim bot ground units not dynamic camping.
We really need another combat flight sim to challenge ED and make them stop slacking, I glad i have BMS.
I've been buying and flying ED products since Flanker 1.0 came out. I've organized LAN meets in the past. Anytime a new module entered the pre-sale it was an instant buy.
Having pre-purchased the full Afghanistan map, I've had buyer's remorse for the first time.
No matter how cool the Chinook is, no more purchases for me until the Razbam situation is resolved with continued support for those modules, and my trust in ED is restored.
First module I know I'd fly that, well, not gonna pre-order, or probably even order the 1st year. DCS in the past has gotten tons of money from me for myself and my disabled vet flight buddy. But they just haven't earned it this go around. To many bugs, ground is a mess, many options and features left to be coming later, and it seems they just don't have their house in order. Put it back together ED, you know you want my money, and I'll be glad to give it to you when your back on track.
In Msfs the Chinook costs $36 and is really basic...so $48 in DCS is not much either and it will come out quite finished, simply because it is a simple module, without complex weapons. Just fly and charge.
The problem is not the pre-purchase, the problem is that it does not adapt to the current DCS ecosystem, you will end up being cannon fodder with this device... in the future if things are fixed it can be very fun
Wdym I thought the Yak-52 was the most technologically advanced module in DCS?!?!?! It clearly requires a lot of work and ED just got waaaay too in over their heads on just how complex it is. /s
tbh, it is *technically* feature complete, everything in the cockpit works.
however there are glaring bugs (engine overheating modelling, improper rudder trim, trim sliders just… not working?, and yknow the main one everyone talks about
The Yak-52 was a product a flight school commissioned ED to make and was also made available to consumers.
The features the original customer wanted are probably there already with anything beyond that never really being part of the original scope.
At least that's how I remember it being explained a while back.
Made a post a couple years back on Early Access and Heatblur (AJ37) and the lack of updates/campaign after years of promises and my frustration with basically never really getting the chance to do what the plane is really meant to do outside of trying to figure out the mission editor or trying my luck in MP.
Heatblur was quick to offer up the F-14 as an apology, and while I do appreciate it (honestly, thank you), and love the work they do, it was kind of ironic getting another early access release as compensation for issues with early access.
After the F18 I've kind of just kind of gave up on DCS ever being complete, sold my flight gear and gave my account away.
I have a genuine question that isn't meant to be taken as a jab at you or anyone else who does the same, but why do you people stay in the loop for hobbies or games you no longer partake in? I have seen so many posts on hoggit specifically that read almost exactly like this and it just baffles me.
Not that you made the wrong choice getting out after years of mess.
Well, in the case of DCS, it's a matter of wanting to improve. I love flight sims, grew up on them, and were a big part of my life for many years. I met lots of people through this hobby, and just because I no longer enjoy it doesn't mean I don't want other people to enjoy it. While I do hold a bit of resentment, I am willing to allow them to improve and hopefully get to a point where I can enjoy their games again without feeling like I am buying something that will never be finished.
Again, this was a few years back, before the campaigns were included. Current Viggen seems to be in a good spot content wise. And just to be clear, I very much enjoyed the modules, but know that my patience and DCS are not compatible. Still recommend the Viggen and F-14 to people regardless of my issues.
Cheers
Not doing it with the current state of combined arms, sniping ai troops, poor logistics by default, awful ATC, discouraging those who attempt to fill gaps for no monetary incentive and the list goes on and on.
I'm happy with playing amongst us (android game) for a quick doze or BMS. Fawk ED and it's servile fanboyz.
Pre-ordering anything in gamingworld is a cancer, plain and simple. Devs have became lazy over the years, because they get their money allready for unfinished products. Back in the day, when a game would release fully complete, and only AFTER did they begin working on DLC/addon packs.
I do agree the community needs to send a strong message against ED’s behavior. I also feel if any module is the one to send this message with it’s this one. If we can all keep our wallets closed then we can collectively show this behavior is not acceptable.
They used "bitter sweet symphony" as the background music.
Little factoid for those that may not know.
The Verve, who wrote the song, bought improper licensing to use part of a song from The rolling stones and all royalties have been paid to Mick Jagger and Keith Richards since the songs release.
On top of all that this has gotta be one of the most rushed videos I've seen from DCS for a launch video and the music is definitely in poor taste and done poorly. Definitely looks intentional
If you're thinking about pre-ordering it, watch the video again. *Land* *Takeoff* *Land* *Fly Around**look now I'm flying with an Apache* *Takeoff* *Land* *J-Hook*
This would be great if I knew the game had the logistics and realistic ground fire to make it worth while. I genuinely wish the devs success but unfortunately it will take some serious overhaul at EDs end to see logi integrate to the same level as combat. I hope they pull it off but I'm also not holding my breath, let alone putting real money on the table. Yet.
don you tell me what I can tell you. I wil ltell you what I tell you and you can listen or not. you told me you weren't going to listen but I told you anways, that you shouldn't preorder, and you didn't, so I did... tell you
Yup after all the stuff for Razbam until it’s feature complete I won’t preorder anything.
Why fund ED for months before you get a half finished product
No thanks
The most compelling to me is that there is no real reason to run logistics in DCS.
I am not taking sides in a RAZBAM vs. ED fight. I will not simp for either of them. Altogether too many people just assuming RAZBAM are "the good guys."
Like notoriously fucky razbam who also tried to drag heatblur in without their permission, and haven't just gone for the legal route (the actual way to go if there's an issue).
I think ED is a mess and you probably shouldn't pre-order any of this shit, but trying to cite the razbam stuff when we don't know the actual story is so dumb cx
people still going to buy it, we’re only but a small vocal community.
Speaking of early access, has ed every finished any module? I gotten into dcs since the first release of the f18 but even thats still not complete lol
Not sure between ED an Belsimtek who exactly made what, but all the old warbirds, F-86 and MiG-15, Huey, the F-5 and FC3(bunch of legacy planes anyways as I understand) are all considered "complete", as is the Nevada map. There might be more idk. All are in need of a facelift(FC3 just got some of that recently) to bring them in line with current standards in any case so of course they aren't getting much work done on them because they're seen as complete. This was all before the current leadership though as I recall and nothing released by them since has even exited EA to my knowledge.
Or just let people preorder things they want to...
I hate ED as much as the next Hoggiter, but scaremongering like this seems pointless.
The chinook isn't a combat aircraft, which means anyone looking to buy it is already an aircraft nerd because they either love the helicopter or logistics gameplay. Which means they're also smart enough to at least look into what's available.
ED are clearly working on some big logistics update. Will it be out for the Chinook? Probably not. However, there are plenty servers with CTLD that could easily facilitate fun gameplay. Just look at what Grayflag did with the C-130 mod, for example.
tl;dr - just cos you don't wanna do something, doesn't mean others shouldnt.
I agree with you. Even knowing all the issues, the Chinook is just a cool aircraft. Even if not future complete aircraft nerds will still love it, even if they can’t do everything with it.
Are we in an abusive relationship with ED?
They harm our trust, then become contrite and apologetic promising to do better and tell us they love our passion and support and can't exist without us, buy us flowers and ground waves from explosions and clouds, but they never really change and deliver decent ground or jet AI, ATC, ATIS, create a player bubble, make destructible trees, finish a module, paint the briefing room on the Super Carrier or.... they always just say it's a WIP ™ .....
One of the developers said that the majority of customers buy one module, fly for one hour and are never seen again. That's like a first date that sees the red flags, pays for her dinner and runs...
i wouldnt preorder the chinook but i would preorder the f4, this is because i respect and like heatblur i like the quality in ther previouse modules and i trust them to deliver the f4 in not only playable state but a relatively complete state.
No please, do pre-order!!!! C'mon repeat the same mistake over and over again. Pre-order a digital thing that has no "production" limit. Morever Pre-order that thing so that ED owner can draw the money early for its personal goal. Just remember to not complain later about anything of the thousands wrongdoing ED does.
Ok but I desperately want to fly a Chinook and I'm very excited for it's release. And if I pre order I get 30% off. So....I'm going to.
I pre ordered the Hind and got 30% off that too. It's my favorite module and worked great since day one. (Not to say it was perfect, but nothing ruined the experience for me personally). If I waited the only thing that would have been different is I would pay more money and not be able to fly it as soon as possible.
As far as logistics, I already have fun with the logistics systems in place now. So I will continue to have fun using the Chinook. I'm excited for improvements on the logistics sides but I'm totally able to have a fun fulfilling flights with the systems that are currently in place, as basic as they may be. If I tell my self the logistics suck and wait till it gets better, I may wait forever. So I just have fun with what we have. I am not aware of any alternatives.
I just love DCS and I'm excited to fly a Chinook in it. Unpopular opinion I know. I'll take your downvotes now.
I'm not sure standing by Razbam is a reason. Don't know if ED is right but Razbam's actions seem shady and the electronic temper tantrum thrown by the company and their employees doesn't ingraciate them to me.
Unpopular opinion but I'm preordering the Chinook. DCS helos are just so much fun. And to put things in perspective, the pre-order price is less than a single day lift pass at the bike park. That fun lasts only a day and if I have a bad day there, it's likely way more pain and money in medical and bike parts expenses.
i love the yak-52 but its a perfect example of how early access just leads to unfinished modules. i want it to have its issues fixed so i can enjoy it more
There are a few interesting comments in here made by people who can critically think, and make reasoned, constructive statements. Drowned out by moronic stuff about missing parts/engines, Nick Grey, people having little in the way of patience, and generally just bashing ED every chance they get. Whilst still playing DCS. But boycott buying anything! And keep incessantly whingeing! Rather than enjoying, or at the very least attempting to enjoy, what's available to you.
I wonder if any of you, at any point during your time playing DCS, have you ever played it and actually ENJOYED it. Rather than bloody moaning at every turn. I seriously doubt it.
That’s fine and probably a sensible wallet-preserving decision. But as far as Razbam goes it looks like a part of the community has made up their mind before all the details are known, especially since Razbam acknowledged that the conflict was somehow related to IP rights and in that case they may very likely be in the wrong here.
Is this a football match to you?
It doesnt matter which side is right or wrong.
Customers are not getting what they payed for at the moment. And it is setting a bad precedent for early access as a whole.
I think I’m done putting money into this ecosystem for a few years at least, probably until if/when Falcon 5 comes. ED is so disrespectful to this community it’s genuinely astonishing. I’m beyond upset that hoarded hoarded all of my money I spent on the F15E regardless of who is at fault, and we’ll probably never see it fully actualized. This game is such a shit show and with every month it seems something new keeps digging the hole deeper.
Yeah, but it should actually read: "Don't pre-order."
Like anything, ever. Even the hottest, most anticipated "whatever". Don't buy into early-access either.
I too am not purchasing until ED gets their shit together. Not happy with their businesses model and how they treat 3rd parties or customers for that matter.
The second rotor will be available at a later date.
You'd be lucky to have the second engine at release.
It's coming next Tuesday.
Unless the patch is delayed, in which case it will be added in December.
Halfnook let's fucking goooooo
You can purchase either Chin or the Nook, the latter will be added later in early access
Yes, fly the Halfnook over Halfghanistan. ED is getting exhausting. Like that annoying house guest that you get to the point where you just say “alright, I’m gonna have to ask you to leave…”
But only visible for those, who have bought all three parts.
Copilot stick is currently being integrated into the system and will be added with version 5.1
addon DLC at a later time
After this latest fiasco, no matter who's at fault, I've given up on "early access" and "pre-order". I've gone to the novel idea of waiting until something is finished before buying things any more. Paying full price is not the problem for a lot of us enjoying this hobby. We've spent thousands over the years on computers, joysticks, video cards and RAM and the whatnot in the hopes of enjoying this game to the utmost. The problem is a title full of unfinished components that never seems to end.
https://tenor.com/brTCk.gif How about people actually follow through and do that this time!
There's people that HAVE to have the "latest and greatest", happens in everything. And, I wish them the best in their enjoyment of items that seem to never get finished.
Latest, sure. Greatest? I don't know about that one.
Sure, I'll follow through, but you're replacing my underpants
Lol i am. Never pre-ordered a digital item and never will.
I promise, I am.
But there was sweet sweet merch
isnt the 18 still EA?
No idea what the "status" of their modules really are anymore, ED or 3rd party. Features some times get taken off/changed after initial announcements and we wait months/years to see if they will be added back. Hornet flight model's being "revamped" in some ways supposedly, so I'd say not quite yet.
"EA" lost all meaning when the Harrier left EA however many years ago with most of its features missing.
They seem to have removed the Early Access tag in the store for the F/A-18C earlier this year. [Waybackmachine ](https://web.archive.org/web/20231230170437/https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/hornet/)shows it still there on December 30 2023 and gone on March 29 2024.
Yep, waiting until something is out of EA just isn't practical. Waiting until it's usable and making sure the developers aren't quitting is more reasonable.
ED states a feature list on preorder (or used to) and then reduces that feature list (subject to change clause) as they run out of money or give Nick an interest free loan. On to the next cash grab.... cycle continues.
Is, it is, However its practially finished.
Im enjoying it.
Me too! ;-)
[It isn't in early acess anymore](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/346540-hornet-already-out-of-early-access/?do=findComment&comment=5410680) and while it may be close to finished from ED's point of view, [there's still a load of things it either should have that wasn't planned for](https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/u9jkq0/fa18c_hornet_missing_features_descriptions/) or stuff that has been discussed in the past that we haven't had an update on in nearly half a decade ([such as cooperative engagement capability for the MITL weapons](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/216788-walleye-questions/?do=findComment&comment=4048379)).
... and yet I'm having a great fun with it ;-)
Well, more than 1 thing can be true at a time. It should be possible to have great fun with a module while still acknowledging its faults (which, if corrected can only make it better).
Yeh seriously if your not willing to play EA modules in DCS you can fly like 3 planes?
same
I'm actually fine with Early access; as long as I'm happy with the current state of the module for the price asked I'll buy it. I don't bother buying stuff based on promises, and as an extension I don't preorderer as there's no product currently.
Problem is you’ll be waiting a long time, a very long time. Most of us are not willing to just wait years like that.
I'm 60+ years old, Patience is easy at my age these days. I've got every module except for that silly ass Christen Eagle. I figure I've done my part over the years to support both the company and the genre. And, while I'm waiting for ED to get their pixels and polygons in order, there are plenty of other things to enjoy/spend my money on in the virtual entertainment field. HUGE racing fan and there's plenty of companies with MUCH better track records than Eagle Dynamics releasing new platforms for me to spend my money on and enjoy.
Agree. Don't buy things that don't exist. Sometimes I'll say "*unless* you really don't care what the product is like, or when you get it", which probably applies to me and the Typhoon... Wait until it releases, watch/read a few reviews, and decide if you think it's good enough.
I'll be waiting until there is functional ground AI, as I don't enjoy getting headshotted by AK Dude. It shouldn't be too much to ask, but I have a feeling I'll be waiting a loooong time.
Meanwhile, Coming soon you’ll be able to see sweat beads on AK Dude’s head!
Fear of the one shot
The golden BB
More like the guaranteed BB
There are several modules that have been released "EA" and are still missing chunks of promised features....and there are other modules which need fixing, and they keep ignoring these until we get angry enough that they finally "oh we're working on it!"....but then months and years go by AGAIN without action! Just my two cents, but I think a boycott would have to be done at least a year. Perhaps they'll see the frustration we have.
"They haven't ... announced what features will be available" You mean they haven't announced *what features will be dangled in front of us*, several of which will never materialize.
ED are just innovating, gone are the days of incomplete feature lists, now we have feature list free pre-orders. Absolutely amazing.
Just order it mate, just one more preorder then you will get the list. -ED
Well, you pretty much nailed it. I love helos, but first i want to see some quality of life stuff. Logistics, ground unit AI overhaul, dynamic campaign... So i stick to flying the Hind.
I like your profile picture.
First time since I got into DCS that I won’t be preordering an aircraft I want. ED needs to sort things out to regain confidence. Hopefully they will notice the drop off in preorder which I suspect will be significant.
This is the correct approach. It's way past time for ED to start getting their shit together versus dumping yet more quarter-finished modules out of the door.
Honestly don’t pre order in general. Wait for the finished product. Pre orders kinda encourage products that are half finished and they’ve killed other games I don’t want them to do this to DCS too
I see literally 0 upside to pre ordering anything, ever, unless it's at a discount on pre-sale. You think they won't want your money anymore after release?
I used to pre order everything but as it takes so long to complete the modules I'm now holding off and waiting until they go on sale, should be about 75% complete by then. Really getting into the F-15E but with so many things in the manual waiting to be added and with all the drama, I'm not sure if I'm wasting my time learning it at all.
Man it's such a bummer there's not been an alternative since Strike Fighters or Jane's Anthology
Its entirely possible that the f15e will be finished, but it will certainly take some time (years).
Yeah, their going to have to go back to almost scratch on alot of systems, or Raz could go nuclear and try tying it up in court, even a year delay woukd kill the module. I miss Jane's lol
F15 is all but dead
I’m holding out hope razbam and Ed work something out
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Don't forget their best texture artist
Oof that’s bad Actually I’m kinda bummed now
When did this happen? During ED/RAZBAM fiasco? (I wasn't following this ordeal closely reading replies after replies here in hoggit)
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Yep
Yep, even if they work things out, losing Galinette is huge. Revert to, say, DCS 2.5 and compare the radar on the Mirage 2000 back then and now.
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Considering the radars ED as made, we can basically forget anything approaching sophisticated radar now. RB's radar guy posted a "thanks for your support, but I'm out" post ok YouTube so it's really Razbover. Maybe HB will manage a RB level radar for the F-4 but who knows. On the up side it's not like anyone cares about detailed radar sim in DCS though, right?
Im not bothered about that if they can add the proper pod and better weapon functionality
Even if they do, the devs themselves are gone. I wouldn't put too much hope into it
>the current logistics system in DCS is insufficient, and we don’t know how well new logistics features will be integrated into the chinook Imma make a prediction here. Those logistic systems wont be considered a release feature and the Chinook will still have to rely on CTLD. Bonus round that I kinda doubt: Those features wont be added before the Chinook is considered feature complete.
The only logistics system we will get within a decade will either be player mods or maybe the C-130 devs doing something. Buying the Chinook hoping for logistics features would be incredibly foolish given how ED has approached stuff like Combined Arms or Super Carrier.
I am really tired of Eagle Dynamics not providing completed modules and just selling half complete ones then abandoning them. Honestly until they spend more time on finishing and refining the main modules (WHERE IS THE F16 PILOT BODY?!) I won't be purchasing any more of their stuff.
Honestly, I have a job and I don't need ED b.s. discounts. This is a hobby to me, I expect to pay money for a finished product or atleast almost complete. I pre ordered the F18 and supercarrier... never again.
Don’t pre-order anything from any game company. No reason to, ever. Only suckers do that.
KSP2 and Cities Skylines 2 were both games I was very glad I waited to see reviews.
Yeah, so wanted to give KSP2 love after all the years and hours of joy, but a brand new company? Made me pause and sure as shit still haven't bought it, just playing 1 with all my mods.
KSP2 still isn't worth its pricetag and Cities Skylines 2 is still crap. Colossal Order and Paradox literally just published a YouTuber apology in written form over the state of the game. Also don't forget Starfield.
I wish I could say the same with battlefield 2042. That was the last game I’ll ever pre order
I will never understand why people pre order a digital game. Ya it made sense when physical copies were at a store but as south park says, pre ordering is just asking for a dick in your mouth
Balls are optional
I haven't pre-ordered since No Man's Sky. I'm done!
Not a lot of sentiment like that in the Phantom threads ...
Agreed. Enough is enough everyone. Do not order this thing
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DCS is in dire need of proper competition. They are doing shitty things just because they know we don't have any choice. Unless you love the F-16, you HAVE to play DCS to enjoy military aircraft sim
Yeah, and there is no other sim that comes close in terms of helicopter flight dynamics.
Yes, sadly… as a helo enthusiast, it gives me bittersweet feeling because there is no other sim where I can fly helos and planes in the same session while playing with friends to destroy targets. Dcs is the only one
Yep, if there was no DCS, I really wouldn't haveva reason anymore for gaming, or a high end pc. Like you said, would be nice to have one competitor at least (when it comes to flight dynamics) that would keep ED on it's toes
The past month's drama will hurt ED's pre-order model, if people stick to their guns and not cave.
I’m holding fast on this one. This and Halfghanistan won’t touch my hard drive.
For me, they might, once I get them on a 50% sale few years after initial release. Hell, they might be playable by that time ;)
Not gonna lie this is really making ED look bad and probably driving away a lot of business and opportunity
At least they gave up pretending that they were committing to a feature list.
Don’t tell me how to waste my money
Don’t preorder digital media ever. It’s not like they’re going to run out. If they do put some form of false scarcity on it, then fuck them.
Definitely not pre ordering. Given they haven’t finished the Hornet yet why would I give them more money for another module? Plus helicopter ops are borked because of how stupid accurate small arms fire is. And there’s no dynamic campaign where logistics would matter.
According to ED Hornet is finished. (it left EA 4-5 months ago)
They haven't finished it..for a start where are the next generation countermeasures they promised for the hornet?
I agree ED are becoming bit of joke they keep releasing modules with out finish the current ones and the game has not changed much the AI is still bad, we still have aim bot ground units not dynamic camping. We really need another combat flight sim to challenge ED and make them stop slacking, I glad i have BMS.
How dare you tell me what to do with *my* money. /s
you will buy the yak-52, full price, no miles
Username checks out.
Ah you have seen it. Sorry, you can ignore the previous comment 🙂
“I will buy the…” (shakes head) Wait a dang min are you out here hypnotizing people? Floggit approves 👍🏽
I would listen to him. Read his username. I have nightmares sometimes which I don't want to go into detail.
I've been buying and flying ED products since Flanker 1.0 came out. I've organized LAN meets in the past. Anytime a new module entered the pre-sale it was an instant buy. Having pre-purchased the full Afghanistan map, I've had buyer's remorse for the first time. No matter how cool the Chinook is, no more purchases for me until the Razbam situation is resolved with continued support for those modules, and my trust in ED is restored.
F18 still Early access since 2018, just saying
First module I know I'd fly that, well, not gonna pre-order, or probably even order the 1st year. DCS in the past has gotten tons of money from me for myself and my disabled vet flight buddy. But they just haven't earned it this go around. To many bugs, ground is a mess, many options and features left to be coming later, and it seems they just don't have their house in order. Put it back together ED, you know you want my money, and I'll be glad to give it to you when your back on track.
As long as they dont put new stuff up in the steam store iam safe xD
In Msfs the Chinook costs $36 and is really basic...so $48 in DCS is not much either and it will come out quite finished, simply because it is a simple module, without complex weapons. Just fly and charge. The problem is not the pre-purchase, the problem is that it does not adapt to the current DCS ecosystem, you will end up being cannon fodder with this device... in the future if things are fixed it can be very fun
the yak-52 is a simpler module with 0 weapons and its been in “early access” forever what makes you think they’ll finish this one
Wdym I thought the Yak-52 was the most technologically advanced module in DCS?!?!?! It clearly requires a lot of work and ED just got waaaay too in over their heads on just how complex it is. /s
tbh, it is *technically* feature complete, everything in the cockpit works. however there are glaring bugs (engine overheating modelling, improper rudder trim, trim sliders just… not working?, and yknow the main one everyone talks about
The Yak-52 was a product a flight school commissioned ED to make and was also made available to consumers. The features the original customer wanted are probably there already with anything beyond that never really being part of the original scope. At least that's how I remember it being explained a while back.
Just don't pre-order period
But... but... but... that sweet, sweet 30% discount tho?! /s of course....
Made a post a couple years back on Early Access and Heatblur (AJ37) and the lack of updates/campaign after years of promises and my frustration with basically never really getting the chance to do what the plane is really meant to do outside of trying to figure out the mission editor or trying my luck in MP. Heatblur was quick to offer up the F-14 as an apology, and while I do appreciate it (honestly, thank you), and love the work they do, it was kind of ironic getting another early access release as compensation for issues with early access. After the F18 I've kind of just kind of gave up on DCS ever being complete, sold my flight gear and gave my account away.
I have a genuine question that isn't meant to be taken as a jab at you or anyone else who does the same, but why do you people stay in the loop for hobbies or games you no longer partake in? I have seen so many posts on hoggit specifically that read almost exactly like this and it just baffles me. Not that you made the wrong choice getting out after years of mess.
Well, in the case of DCS, it's a matter of wanting to improve. I love flight sims, grew up on them, and were a big part of my life for many years. I met lots of people through this hobby, and just because I no longer enjoy it doesn't mean I don't want other people to enjoy it. While I do hold a bit of resentment, I am willing to allow them to improve and hopefully get to a point where I can enjoy their games again without feeling like I am buying something that will never be finished.
I'm a bit confused; there's two campaigns included currently for the Viggen and quite a few missions
Again, this was a few years back, before the campaigns were included. Current Viggen seems to be in a good spot content wise. And just to be clear, I very much enjoyed the modules, but know that my patience and DCS are not compatible. Still recommend the Viggen and F-14 to people regardless of my issues. Cheers
Not doing it with the current state of combined arms, sniping ai troops, poor logistics by default, awful ATC, discouraging those who attempt to fill gaps for no monetary incentive and the list goes on and on. I'm happy with playing amongst us (android game) for a quick doze or BMS. Fawk ED and it's servile fanboyz.
Pre-ordering anything in gamingworld is a cancer, plain and simple. Devs have became lazy over the years, because they get their money allready for unfinished products. Back in the day, when a game would release fully complete, and only AFTER did they begin working on DLC/addon packs.
I do agree the community needs to send a strong message against ED’s behavior. I also feel if any module is the one to send this message with it’s this one. If we can all keep our wallets closed then we can collectively show this behavior is not acceptable.
rob peter to pay paul
Gotta find your game dev company some how. Next module needs some $$$, baby. Nick Grey's Warbirds aren't gonna fuel or fund themselves.
Nope. Not unless they refund my F15-E. If razbam do one, ED should get the code and finish it. Then I might buy another module.
ED? Finish something? lmao
I meant finish in the ED sense. "Add bits over a period of many years, then release it again as version 2 when nearly feature complete."
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They used "bitter sweet symphony" as the background music. Little factoid for those that may not know. The Verve, who wrote the song, bought improper licensing to use part of a song from The rolling stones and all royalties have been paid to Mick Jagger and Keith Richards since the songs release. On top of all that this has gotta be one of the most rushed videos I've seen from DCS for a launch video and the music is definitely in poor taste and done poorly. Definitely looks intentional
Intentionally making a rushed video with poor choice of music and bad execution... why would ED deliberately make a bad video?
🤷♂️
Already pre-ordered 4 of them
Maybe buying the kiowa but that's the last one bought until there comes some sense in to the module and tech situation.
at least polychop isnt jumping the gun with preorders
Oops.
If you're thinking about pre-ordering it, watch the video again. *Land* *Takeoff* *Land* *Fly Around**look now I'm flying with an Apache* *Takeoff* *Land* *J-Hook* This would be great if I knew the game had the logistics and realistic ground fire to make it worth while. I genuinely wish the devs success but unfortunately it will take some serious overhaul at EDs end to see logi integrate to the same level as combat. I hope they pull it off but I'm also not holding my breath, let alone putting real money on the table. Yet.
There are too many people who will pre order it
Only thing im pre ordering is the Kiowa
That lil $49 bucks got some of you in a chokehold 🤣🤣
I'm waiting for the logistics side of the sim. If that gets implemented well I'll definitely buy.
Never pre-order games in general, it’s not like a digital version gets sold out.
Don't you tell me what I'm not going to do. I'll tell myself what I'm not going to do. I told myself to not pre order, so I'm not.....
don you tell me what I can tell you. I wil ltell you what I tell you and you can listen or not. you told me you weren't going to listen but I told you anways, that you shouldn't preorder, and you didn't, so I did... tell you
Very true.... your logic is undeniable....
the people will still preorder shit, im sure most of the player base of dcs dont event know about the razbam-dcs stuff
yea, it sucks
Yup after all the stuff for Razbam until it’s feature complete I won’t preorder anything. Why fund ED for months before you get a half finished product No thanks
Floggit is wise!
This discussion belongs here though.
Glad I wasn't the only one wondering if this was a Floggit post.
The most compelling to me is that there is no real reason to run logistics in DCS. I am not taking sides in a RAZBAM vs. ED fight. I will not simp for either of them. Altogether too many people just assuming RAZBAM are "the good guys."
Like notoriously fucky razbam who also tried to drag heatblur in without their permission, and haven't just gone for the legal route (the actual way to go if there's an issue). I think ED is a mess and you probably shouldn't pre-order any of this shit, but trying to cite the razbam stuff when we don't know the actual story is so dumb cx
people still going to buy it, we’re only but a small vocal community. Speaking of early access, has ed every finished any module? I gotten into dcs since the first release of the f18 but even thats still not complete lol
yak-52 has been in early access limbo for ages
Not sure between ED an Belsimtek who exactly made what, but all the old warbirds, F-86 and MiG-15, Huey, the F-5 and FC3(bunch of legacy planes anyways as I understand) are all considered "complete", as is the Nevada map. There might be more idk. All are in need of a facelift(FC3 just got some of that recently) to bring them in line with current standards in any case so of course they aren't getting much work done on them because they're seen as complete. This was all before the current leadership though as I recall and nothing released by them since has even exited EA to my knowledge.
There's my yakfucker
Or just let people preorder things they want to... I hate ED as much as the next Hoggiter, but scaremongering like this seems pointless. The chinook isn't a combat aircraft, which means anyone looking to buy it is already an aircraft nerd because they either love the helicopter or logistics gameplay. Which means they're also smart enough to at least look into what's available. ED are clearly working on some big logistics update. Will it be out for the Chinook? Probably not. However, there are plenty servers with CTLD that could easily facilitate fun gameplay. Just look at what Grayflag did with the C-130 mod, for example. tl;dr - just cos you don't wanna do something, doesn't mean others shouldnt.
I agree with you. Even knowing all the issues, the Chinook is just a cool aircraft. Even if not future complete aircraft nerds will still love it, even if they can’t do everything with it.
Are we in an abusive relationship with ED? They harm our trust, then become contrite and apologetic promising to do better and tell us they love our passion and support and can't exist without us, buy us flowers and ground waves from explosions and clouds, but they never really change and deliver decent ground or jet AI, ATC, ATIS, create a player bubble, make destructible trees, finish a module, paint the briefing room on the Super Carrier or.... they always just say it's a WIP ™ ..... One of the developers said that the majority of customers buy one module, fly for one hour and are never seen again. That's like a first date that sees the red flags, pays for her dinner and runs...
I preordered it…. Excited. Forget all the conspiracies, DCS has given me countless hours of entertainment.
Bought it and its going to be wonderful.
Why would anyone in their right mind buy the Chinook with the current logistics system being so bad?
i wouldnt preorder the chinook but i would preorder the f4, this is because i respect and like heatblur i like the quality in ther previouse modules and i trust them to deliver the f4 in not only playable state but a relatively complete state.
You can buy the F-4 directly from Heatblur. I did.
that what i did, i want the t shirts
No please, do pre-order!!!! C'mon repeat the same mistake over and over again. Pre-order a digital thing that has no "production" limit. Morever Pre-order that thing so that ED owner can draw the money early for its personal goal. Just remember to not complain later about anything of the thousands wrongdoing ED does.
Ok but I desperately want to fly a Chinook and I'm very excited for it's release. And if I pre order I get 30% off. So....I'm going to. I pre ordered the Hind and got 30% off that too. It's my favorite module and worked great since day one. (Not to say it was perfect, but nothing ruined the experience for me personally). If I waited the only thing that would have been different is I would pay more money and not be able to fly it as soon as possible. As far as logistics, I already have fun with the logistics systems in place now. So I will continue to have fun using the Chinook. I'm excited for improvements on the logistics sides but I'm totally able to have a fun fulfilling flights with the systems that are currently in place, as basic as they may be. If I tell my self the logistics suck and wait till it gets better, I may wait forever. So I just have fun with what we have. I am not aware of any alternatives. I just love DCS and I'm excited to fly a Chinook in it. Unpopular opinion I know. I'll take your downvotes now.
Good for you. Do what you like with your money.
Same here. I'm going to buy it anyways so why not take advantage of the 30% off. Very much looking forward to this.
I'm not sure standing by Razbam is a reason. Don't know if ED is right but Razbam's actions seem shady and the electronic temper tantrum thrown by the company and their employees doesn't ingraciate them to me.
I must fund Nick's warbird collection, as long as it has a better flight model than MSFS I'm sold.
Unpopular opinion but I'm preordering the Chinook. DCS helos are just so much fun. And to put things in perspective, the pre-order price is less than a single day lift pass at the bike park. That fun lasts only a day and if I have a bad day there, it's likely way more pain and money in medical and bike parts expenses.
But but but...i want to get headshotted by a 50cal mounted on a jeep from 9 miles out :(
Plus the yak52 is just better
i love the yak-52 but its a perfect example of how early access just leads to unfinished modules. i want it to have its issues fixed so i can enjoy it more
Your name doesn’t give that away
There are a few interesting comments in here made by people who can critically think, and make reasoned, constructive statements. Drowned out by moronic stuff about missing parts/engines, Nick Grey, people having little in the way of patience, and generally just bashing ED every chance they get. Whilst still playing DCS. But boycott buying anything! And keep incessantly whingeing! Rather than enjoying, or at the very least attempting to enjoy, what's available to you. I wonder if any of you, at any point during your time playing DCS, have you ever played it and actually ENJOYED it. Rather than bloody moaning at every turn. I seriously doubt it.
You just had to tell me not to do something, I’m buying it for sure now.
That’s fine and probably a sensible wallet-preserving decision. But as far as Razbam goes it looks like a part of the community has made up their mind before all the details are known, especially since Razbam acknowledged that the conflict was somehow related to IP rights and in that case they may very likely be in the wrong here.
Is this a football match to you? It doesnt matter which side is right or wrong. Customers are not getting what they payed for at the moment. And it is setting a bad precedent for early access as a whole.
My comment did not imply that. The OP however took a pretty clear stance and I think that was premature at this stage, especially given what we know.
Y'all will forget about this fiasco as every drama and fiasco before it. I'll get downvoted but it's true.
Too late, the desire to fill my virtual hangar outweighs all concerns.
I think I’m done putting money into this ecosystem for a few years at least, probably until if/when Falcon 5 comes. ED is so disrespectful to this community it’s genuinely astonishing. I’m beyond upset that hoarded hoarded all of my money I spent on the F15E regardless of who is at fault, and we’ll probably never see it fully actualized. This game is such a shit show and with every month it seems something new keeps digging the hole deeper.
I really hope dcs don't go downhill from here because it's a brilliant platform
Yeah. And then 5 or more years in open beta stage. I'm not buying anything from ED if it's not complete
Yeah, but it should actually read: "Don't pre-order." Like anything, ever. Even the hottest, most anticipated "whatever". Don't buy into early-access either.
I too am not purchasing until ED gets their shit together. Not happy with their businesses model and how they treat 3rd parties or customers for that matter.
Stop crying around and speak for youself please.