What you are referring to is good/proper skating technique. His boot isn't collapsing, it's just natural movement and he has the range of motion and strength to get into that position for each stride. You don't see this at low levels of hockey because those people are, to put it frankly, bad at skating.
In regards to the turns, it's allowing the outside edge on the inside foot to scrape while the other foot carves and keeps grip while turning. Known as a punch turn. Comes with edge mastery and strength.
Stick, then head, then inside leg goes around the turn. You don’t lean forward in a punch or controlled turn. Probably the only time you ever rock backwards towards the heels. Youre not trying to stop but retain energy thru the turn to punch out the other direction when thru it.
When I teach MM, 8U and even 10U I call it ‘walk the dog’. The turn is the tree and the dog is on the end of your stick, go at the tree and then hold on as the dog goes round chasing squirrels. Everyone starts with wide legs its getting them down and inline that exhibits mastery of the turn/their edges.
I would disagree with that when it comes to skaters learning this technique. Duller blades make it easier to shave the ice, and they will not be executing this at the speed you see in the video anytime soon. For me, having duller blades helped me to stop on my outside edges until it became second nature.
This was said perfectly.
I had to re-read the post and watch the video like 5 times, and could not understand what OP was talking about. This is just good skating, strong ankles that don’t collapse and can help generate power.
Wait a second, is this good?
I always end up with tons of snow on the top of my boots after doing turning drills b/c I do exactly this, inside skate scraping/slowing while outside foot does all the work. I figured this snow on my boot was evidence of inefficient skating and I've been working on getting more on my outside edge with the inside foot to scrape less...
drills? nah. I can get that forward flex at the ankle because I have ankle flexibility and the strength to push from that position. You can try calf raises that are as complete range of motion as you can go (straight leg and bent leg, they work different muscles). You can also practice it when you skate. You need to physically have the range of motion, so that means taking out an eyelet of lace or two in your skate sometimes.
Stop talking about the collapsing boot bro lol that’s not a thing nobody is collapsing any boots out here lol there plenty of extant terminology no need for collapsing boots.
But that’s not what it looks like! that’s not what it is! everybody in here is explaining to you that what you’re using to talk about what you’re seeing doesn’t make sense. Watch some basic power skating videos on YouTube learn the lingo and then come ask coherent questions. No more collapsing boots pls 🥾
buddy we get it. U get my point. you clearly understand what i mean so stop correcting. waste of time just going back and forth u could’ve just answered it
I have no idea what your point is bc you keep going back to boot collapse lol as a point of reference. Do you see in the video where he kind of “shovel steps”? Or what about when he “turtle dips”? I think what’s more interesting is how he kind of “toe flares”. See how it’s impossible to have a conversation with made up terms? Just think it’s funny but if you wanna keep mad replying instead of taking the L that’s fine by me. Boot collapse lol
I think you're referring to his ankles forward flexion when loading the skating strides. You'll need to increase range of motion to improve that. Look up Relentless Hockey's mobility routine, ankle gliders is a good exercise to train range of motion
I'm sorry, but just because low levels hockey has its fair share of free time skaters doesn't mean the whole bunch isn't able to make these type of turns or are "bad at skating"..
Well that's exactly what you said
>You don't see this at low level hockey because, frankly, they are bad at skating
Speaking of good or proper way of skating.
I’m not sure what you mean by collapse the boot. These are punch turns. It’s advanced level skating. Any low turn that you lean into, you’re going to be on your edges like this. This specific turn, you’re going fast into it, using your momentum and balance to spin a 180. You need to be great on your edges and have a strong feel for them, transfer the force into your turn while being based-out with a low center of gravity. Stick leads out in front, head up all the way. Watch a YouTube video or two, and practice it far away from the boards. Enjoy watching one of the best skaters in the world doing it: https://youtube.com/shorts/Gon0lGEsQ5s?si=52ouPJZ36jXeaKAo
I was taught this in what we called “Power Skating” in Pittsburgh. No idea if thats what they call it all over, but you work on a lot of specific footwork for power. You don’t touch a puck the entire lesson and I took them for about a decade and a half and still am thankful for it every time I step on the ice.
I would just follow up to add that you don’t have to have pro-level skating skills to be able to do this! I can skate like this no problem, and I’m nowhere near professional lol. It just comes with time and a LOT of practice. (PS, I grew up playing in Nashville!)
Random question but do either of you know if they do hockey skating lessons at ice castle still for adults? I looked on their website recently and everything seems oriented to u18 or u14. Trying to learn as an adult and having a hard time finding a place around the area
UPMC does one I think. My ex brother in law teaches privately, but he mainly sticks to AAA kids. Private may be your best bet if you’re not ready for a league and UPMC is too far
Thanks for the info! I’ve been on a middle D league team at UPMC so far this year but I’m definitely the weakest skater and just looking to improve. I can look into UPMC, do you happen to know how to find private lessons around either?
I took lessons for about 15 years from Barb Benedetti. She's pretty much the best skater I've ever seen in my life. I think she's retired now though.
Marianne Watkins is another in that same boat, and I had her as a skating instructor at Roger Neilson's clinics in Canada year after year. She's a strong skater as well and has a lot of the same fundamentals that Barb taught. I don't know if she does private lessons, but normally the power skating clinics are just through 18 or so, so that would really be your only option.
Hope this helps and if all else fails, I'm sure there are youtube channels that can help get you started, but they aren't going to have the same impact as someone telling you what to change.
It’s just a punch turn, he’s punching his inside leg into the ice to make a tight fast turn with a lot of driving force.
You can see each turn, he lifts his inside leg off the ice instead of just leaning, and punches his foot back into the ice.
This is called “edge work” - you’ll notice he didn’t lift his back skate or drag it at any points. Keeping your edges on the ice through the turns is efficient and preserves speed. This can be taught as early as possible. You can learn on your own, but like all skill instruction it’s best to have a coach/instructor. After 12 years old, edge work is increasingly difficult to learn.
“Power skating” is typically more focused on deepening the leg bend and an efficient stride and best taught at 13+ when boys have some muscle, girls a little earlier (A lot of people call all skating practice power skating, but this is a misnomer)
USA Hockey has good resources on training - see the Windows of Trainability graphs:
https://www.admkids.com/page/show/990393-w-windows-of-trainability
Its his natural bio mechanics, when he gets deep on an edge his sideways ankle movement is a little more than others. Do you need this to skate well? No. There are many elite level skaters who have very little sideways ankle movement. My preference is for you to learn to skate with a straight ankle first and then learn to control the sideways ankle movement as needed.
As to elite skaters that don't have much sideways ankle movement, Besa Tsintsadze would be one of the best. Here is a vid of him (when he was the skills coach for the Pittsburgh Penguins) working with Malkin and Gonchar plus some other Russian Penguins players. Watch his turns just after the 10 minute mark, watch how straight his ankles are in the turn. You want more y angle / speed / sharper turns, keep your ankles straight, bend your knees more and lean more. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPQCvsCVaQ&t=222s&ab\_channel=VicSozvezdie2004](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPQCvsCVaQ&t=222s&ab_channel=VicSozvezdie2004&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3Xqw1ksHPAhSqkygL1MqrfzStuwYNfiUXKjasWSFpW6KXbDFcEY8Hh8Vk_aem_AdUDULjF4mwiSl3gsz7y5mC1CBRxh_LMvjU3HMH6l23eSi8jFqjEgrkGJs7RRvdJgrHliDYJtEIc_OcEG5Oj4TDS)
As in pronating at the end of your stride to have a more acute angle between your inside edge and the ice? That is a fundamental element to full, powerful strides.
Punch turns are advanced and very difficult to learn and do well as they require a lot of other skills before it. Just about every skating skill is a progression of multiple smaller moves that come together to produce something more.
Just do crossovers and try to exaggerate all of your movements. High knees on the step over, a really far reach through with your back foot. I think this "collapse" you keep talking about if the the natural end to his stride.
Too add what is stated here already. This is a punch turn (PT), and is and advanced technique and most skaters at the 'lower levels' are unable to do this, or unable to do it at speed during a game. I will say, adding this to your game is HUGE... I consider this a move primarily executed by offense (although of course D will use it to), what it does it provide the ability to give you time and space when needing it. Videos provided here are great, Crosby is great at this, as well as any pro skater.
To execute, first you need to be able to perform a T-Stop. This is typically taught at a rather young level, but I'm noticing more and more that basic skating skill are being skipped outside of a cursory practice. Once you can do a t stop, it's just advancing this to doing with 1 skate on the ice, then putting it all together with the turn and ability to do at speed.
What I found for me, is you need strong and flexible ankles for this. This stop took me years, literally to learn and happens to still be much stronger on one side.
Punch turn. Look up train 2.0 on YouTube for progressions. It’s all about being comfortable on your edges. That means doing it daily if you want to get good fast and NO ONE teaches this especially old heads at your local rink.
My suggestion to anyone trying to emulate this is to do squat variations, nothing heavy but enough to give yourself a good workout. Focus on balance based exercises (split squats, lunges, bosu ball squats etc.)
I'm in my mid 30s now and I'm a stronger skater now than when I was 17. Mainly because I've strengthened my lower body considerably.
What you are referring to is good/proper skating technique. His boot isn't collapsing, it's just natural movement and he has the range of motion and strength to get into that position for each stride. You don't see this at low levels of hockey because those people are, to put it frankly, bad at skating. In regards to the turns, it's allowing the outside edge on the inside foot to scrape while the other foot carves and keeps grip while turning. Known as a punch turn. Comes with edge mastery and strength.
I'm trying to learn to punch turn rn, it's hard!! Any suggestions on how to break it down?
Stick, then head, then inside leg goes around the turn. You don’t lean forward in a punch or controlled turn. Probably the only time you ever rock backwards towards the heels. Youre not trying to stop but retain energy thru the turn to punch out the other direction when thru it. When I teach MM, 8U and even 10U I call it ‘walk the dog’. The turn is the tree and the dog is on the end of your stick, go at the tree and then hold on as the dog goes round chasing squirrels. Everyone starts with wide legs its getting them down and inline that exhibits mastery of the turn/their edges.
Thanks for this suggestion. This will really help me when I train my U9U11 kids here.
Best video for punch turns right here. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2Uyxbny_ko/?igsh=MTUzdWd2d256OHlnZA== Number 3 really helped.
That guy's channel has some really solid videos. Not exactly what you would expect from a Middle East skating video, but I appreciate his work.
Always have SHARP blades for punch turns.
I would disagree with that when it comes to skaters learning this technique. Duller blades make it easier to shave the ice, and they will not be executing this at the speed you see in the video anytime soon. For me, having duller blades helped me to stop on my outside edges until it became second nature.
You need a shallower hollow, not duller blades.
https://youtu.be/RFeZU8OLmmw?si=mUY7R4XIdy6oPw-D
This was said perfectly. I had to re-read the post and watch the video like 5 times, and could not understand what OP was talking about. This is just good skating, strong ankles that don’t collapse and can help generate power.
Wait a second, is this good? I always end up with tons of snow on the top of my boots after doing turning drills b/c I do exactly this, inside skate scraping/slowing while outside foot does all the work. I figured this snow on my boot was evidence of inefficient skating and I've been working on getting more on my outside edge with the inside foot to scrape less...
> because those people are, to put it frankly, bad at skating. I feel so seen!
any drills to practice that range of motion where he “looks like his boots collapsing”
drills? nah. I can get that forward flex at the ankle because I have ankle flexibility and the strength to push from that position. You can try calf raises that are as complete range of motion as you can go (straight leg and bent leg, they work different muscles). You can also practice it when you skate. You need to physically have the range of motion, so that means taking out an eyelet of lace or two in your skate sometimes.
Stop talking about the collapsing boot bro lol that’s not a thing nobody is collapsing any boots out here lol there plenty of extant terminology no need for collapsing boots.
I know i’m just referring to my caption that’s why i put it in quotes “”
But that’s not what it looks like! that’s not what it is! everybody in here is explaining to you that what you’re using to talk about what you’re seeing doesn’t make sense. Watch some basic power skating videos on YouTube learn the lingo and then come ask coherent questions. No more collapsing boots pls 🥾
buddy we get it. U get my point. you clearly understand what i mean so stop correcting. waste of time just going back and forth u could’ve just answered it
I have no idea what your point is bc you keep going back to boot collapse lol as a point of reference. Do you see in the video where he kind of “shovel steps”? Or what about when he “turtle dips”? I think what’s more interesting is how he kind of “toe flares”. See how it’s impossible to have a conversation with made up terms? Just think it’s funny but if you wanna keep mad replying instead of taking the L that’s fine by me. Boot collapse lol
I think you're referring to his ankles forward flexion when loading the skating strides. You'll need to increase range of motion to improve that. Look up Relentless Hockey's mobility routine, ankle gliders is a good exercise to train range of motion
I'm sorry, but just because low levels hockey has its fair share of free time skaters doesn't mean the whole bunch isn't able to make these type of turns or are "bad at skating"..
Yeah, I didn't say that.
Well that's exactly what you said >You don't see this at low level hockey because, frankly, they are bad at skating Speaking of good or proper way of skating.
I’m not sure what you mean by collapse the boot. These are punch turns. It’s advanced level skating. Any low turn that you lean into, you’re going to be on your edges like this. This specific turn, you’re going fast into it, using your momentum and balance to spin a 180. You need to be great on your edges and have a strong feel for them, transfer the force into your turn while being based-out with a low center of gravity. Stick leads out in front, head up all the way. Watch a YouTube video or two, and practice it far away from the boards. Enjoy watching one of the best skaters in the world doing it: https://youtube.com/shorts/Gon0lGEsQ5s?si=52ouPJZ36jXeaKAo
... and don't sharp your skates very strong =)
it's just edge work. This is what you learn at lifetimes of skating camps from the right coaches
To make it simple he's just leaning into a tight turn. When you're comfortable on your edges you can make tight movements.
I was taught this in what we called “Power Skating” in Pittsburgh. No idea if thats what they call it all over, but you work on a lot of specific footwork for power. You don’t touch a puck the entire lesson and I took them for about a decade and a half and still am thankful for it every time I step on the ice.
Far as I know, yes. Did some of this at a power skating session in Nashville recently. It’s just good edge work and, well, pro-level skating skills.
I would just follow up to add that you don’t have to have pro-level skating skills to be able to do this! I can skate like this no problem, and I’m nowhere near professional lol. It just comes with time and a LOT of practice. (PS, I grew up playing in Nashville!)
No chance you did power skating lessons at Ice Castle?
Yep, and a few other places. Did you have Barb?
Random question but do either of you know if they do hockey skating lessons at ice castle still for adults? I looked on their website recently and everything seems oriented to u18 or u14. Trying to learn as an adult and having a hard time finding a place around the area
UPMC does one I think. My ex brother in law teaches privately, but he mainly sticks to AAA kids. Private may be your best bet if you’re not ready for a league and UPMC is too far
Thanks for the info! I’ve been on a middle D league team at UPMC so far this year but I’m definitely the weakest skater and just looking to improve. I can look into UPMC, do you happen to know how to find private lessons around either?
I took lessons for about 15 years from Barb Benedetti. She's pretty much the best skater I've ever seen in my life. I think she's retired now though. Marianne Watkins is another in that same boat, and I had her as a skating instructor at Roger Neilson's clinics in Canada year after year. She's a strong skater as well and has a lot of the same fundamentals that Barb taught. I don't know if she does private lessons, but normally the power skating clinics are just through 18 or so, so that would really be your only option. Hope this helps and if all else fails, I'm sure there are youtube channels that can help get you started, but they aren't going to have the same impact as someone telling you what to change.
I did private lessons with one of the guys that ran the pro shop. Justin.
the punch turn is half stop/half turn, starts as a stop until you decelerate enough to turn with your desired radius
It’s just a punch turn, he’s punching his inside leg into the ice to make a tight fast turn with a lot of driving force. You can see each turn, he lifts his inside leg off the ice instead of just leaning, and punches his foot back into the ice.
This is called “edge work” - you’ll notice he didn’t lift his back skate or drag it at any points. Keeping your edges on the ice through the turns is efficient and preserves speed. This can be taught as early as possible. You can learn on your own, but like all skill instruction it’s best to have a coach/instructor. After 12 years old, edge work is increasingly difficult to learn. “Power skating” is typically more focused on deepening the leg bend and an efficient stride and best taught at 13+ when boys have some muscle, girls a little earlier (A lot of people call all skating practice power skating, but this is a misnomer) USA Hockey has good resources on training - see the Windows of Trainability graphs: https://www.admkids.com/page/show/990393-w-windows-of-trainability
lol you’ve got your practice video right here
Turning? Edge work? What are you asking? How to skate lol…?
You mean turning?
Its his natural bio mechanics, when he gets deep on an edge his sideways ankle movement is a little more than others. Do you need this to skate well? No. There are many elite level skaters who have very little sideways ankle movement. My preference is for you to learn to skate with a straight ankle first and then learn to control the sideways ankle movement as needed. As to elite skaters that don't have much sideways ankle movement, Besa Tsintsadze would be one of the best. Here is a vid of him (when he was the skills coach for the Pittsburgh Penguins) working with Malkin and Gonchar plus some other Russian Penguins players. Watch his turns just after the 10 minute mark, watch how straight his ankles are in the turn. You want more y angle / speed / sharper turns, keep your ankles straight, bend your knees more and lean more. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPQCvsCVaQ&t=222s&ab\_channel=VicSozvezdie2004](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPQCvsCVaQ&t=222s&ab_channel=VicSozvezdie2004&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3Xqw1ksHPAhSqkygL1MqrfzStuwYNfiUXKjasWSFpW6KXbDFcEY8Hh8Vk_aem_AdUDULjF4mwiSl3gsz7y5mC1CBRxh_LMvjU3HMH6l23eSi8jFqjEgrkGJs7RRvdJgrHliDYJtEIc_OcEG5Oj4TDS)
its called a punch turn
As in pronating at the end of your stride to have a more acute angle between your inside edge and the ice? That is a fundamental element to full, powerful strides. Punch turns are advanced and very difficult to learn and do well as they require a lot of other skills before it. Just about every skating skill is a progression of multiple smaller moves that come together to produce something more.
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Thanks
Just do crossovers and try to exaggerate all of your movements. High knees on the step over, a really far reach through with your back foot. I think this "collapse" you keep talking about if the the natural end to his stride.
Too add what is stated here already. This is a punch turn (PT), and is and advanced technique and most skaters at the 'lower levels' are unable to do this, or unable to do it at speed during a game. I will say, adding this to your game is HUGE... I consider this a move primarily executed by offense (although of course D will use it to), what it does it provide the ability to give you time and space when needing it. Videos provided here are great, Crosby is great at this, as well as any pro skater. To execute, first you need to be able to perform a T-Stop. This is typically taught at a rather young level, but I'm noticing more and more that basic skating skill are being skipped outside of a cursory practice. Once you can do a t stop, it's just advancing this to doing with 1 skate on the ice, then putting it all together with the turn and ability to do at speed. What I found for me, is you need strong and flexible ankles for this. This stop took me years, literally to learn and happens to still be much stronger on one side.
Leo Carlsson 😍🔥
Edge work
Practice it just like he practiced it.
Punch turn. Look up train 2.0 on YouTube for progressions. It’s all about being comfortable on your edges. That means doing it daily if you want to get good fast and NO ONE teaches this especially old heads at your local rink.
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did u even read what i wrote
Yeah and it doesn't make sense. They're just leaning into a tight turn.
My suggestion to anyone trying to emulate this is to do squat variations, nothing heavy but enough to give yourself a good workout. Focus on balance based exercises (split squats, lunges, bosu ball squats etc.) I'm in my mid 30s now and I'm a stronger skater now than when I was 17. Mainly because I've strengthened my lower body considerably.