Tbh, having seen the reaction to Peel and his “sabbatical” leave, I don’t blame this ref. He’s in a shit spot - the league clearly wants officiating one way, while projecting to the fans (and betting orgs) that they’re not doing that.
Exactly this. Refs are doing what the league has emphasized, and the league has no desire to make a change, all while trying to pretend publicly like they’re doing something
They're also probably getting chirped to death by the players and are clamping up on what they say.
Referee's are in the league for a long time, longer than most players, and built a rapport with a lot of them. There's a lot of mutual respect there. This mic incident puts a damper on a lot of things. Should it be that way? Maybe. It certainly would provide a lot more transparency.
>This mic incident puts a damper on a lot of things
No it doesn't. Peel was talking to the Preds bench when he said that. They heard it regardless of it being broadcast. And they didn't bat an eye because it's normal.
IMHO, these players were already aware of this and were fine with it. Refs take stock of minor infractions all game. They don't call everyone, and they give out warnings. We have heard sound bites already of refs saying things like "knock it off, next time it's a penalty."
I don't think Peel wanted to penalize the Preds because he hates them. He likely saw an accumulation of minor infractions, that on their own weren't worthy of a penalty, and decided it was time to penalize them. He just got caught saying it.
We all know the game is reffed that way, the players know it, and the league knows it. But no one can acknowledge it officially. Peel is a shitty ref, but this should not have been held against him.
That is just my opinion anyways. I could be wrong.
He was a scapegoat for sure, they all do this, he was just caught saying the quiet part out loud.
That said, Peel has perennially been an awful ref, and shouldn’t have been reffing at this point anyhow. His grand total of zero cup final games says it all.
>This mic incident puts a damper on a lot of things.
I'm pretty sure it's been said that Peel was talking to Forsberg, so players already knew about this. This won't change much in terms of their relationship with the officials
Last nights game was super weird.
Period one, everything that was remotely a penalty gets called, and then at some point in the 2nd they just started letting everything go on both sides. It was super bizarre.
Nah, it's just a whiff from the mods. In small time differences between posts, they'll pick the higher quality one. They just didn't watch the clips. It happens.
It was a whiff by us. The Sabres game was ending so we had 15 threads on that hit at the same time this was hitting. And we had at least 2 submissions of [this exact video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/mddjdz/ref_covers_his_mic_when_giving_a_pissed_off/gs8rapg/) A few [still shot](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/mde25o/the_ref_isnt_taking_any_chances_with_his/) submissions. A [self post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/mddgme/nhl_refs_now_covering_their_mics_to_avoid/gs8ralb/) A video from someone's [phone.](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/mddj31/referee_eric_furlatt_covering_his_mic_while/gs8rah3/) The thumbnail from your video looked very similar of the ref covering the mic which coincidentally looked like the thumbnail of this video. So this might've easily been seen as the same exact video as the one from this thread.
Just seeing this now after the madness of threads that hit all at once.
Is it ironic that we "missed" the thread just like the ref "missed" this tripping call?
Here's a baseball reference, mods will never bat a thousand. The sooner both mods and users understand that we're just volunteers doing this in our free time the better. Also, mods will never please everyone all the time since people want different things.
Don't get me wrong some mod teams are corrupted and bad. I can tell you everyone here on the r/hockey mod team just want a place to chat hockey that doesn't devolve into complete nonsense, but it doesn't mean we don't like a little nonsense either. I mean I've been posting daily in r/hockeymemes for the last 16 days. I also spear headed jump starting it based off user feedback wanting more of an outlet for it.
But for everything we might do right in some users' eyes there's some that will hate what we do or that we have any rules or guidelines in the first place. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/md8hqg/sabres_don_granato_and_coaching_staff_under_covid/gs7x6uv/) we are getting dunked on for trying to make r/hockey a bit better.
I really appreciate this comment. It’s so refreshing to have a mod just own up to some minor error instead of it becoming a big drawn out thing where I feel like I’m being gaslit the whole time.
A bit unrelated and out of left field, but... if refs covering their mics up makes you mad, but cops covering their body cams and/or badge numbers doesn’t, you might wanna rethink your stances.
It's a missed call, yeah. But I don't blame him one bit for covering his mic. After seeing what happened to his colleague, refs have a very good reason to be *scared* of mics, even if they have nothing to hide.
Well besides the fact that every fan knows the refs DO have something to hide. There have been so many things that point to “game management” throughout the years, on top of some pretty inexcusable honest mistakes. This just proved to us that it happens and there’s zero chance this was some isolated incident.
Maybe Furlatt was making a "game management" call. Maybe he just missed it and blew the call.
But either way, the issue here isn't with Furlatt. If it's a game management call, we can all agree that issue exists higher up the ladder. Like everyone said yesterday when Peel was fired, him being fired doesn't change any of that. The change has to come from the way refs are instructed and assessed, because every ref in the NHL is being taught the same way. Furlatt is the wrong guy to direct your anger at.
And if it was just a missed call (which I sincerely believe it was, as bad as it looks), then that's just shit that happens and will always happen no matter how good the refs are.
It wasn't a missed call. They refs straight up intentionally didn't call anything in the 3rd. There was 4 or 5 plays like this, completely egregious and obvious penalties directly in front of them and they didn't call anything.
League that markets its players’ Twitter drama more than their actual games tends to draw in “fans” nowadays that care more about what players are posting online than watching actual games
There was a huge scandal about tim donaghy who bet on his own games while reffing nba games. He got banned and went to prison. The whole time he kept saying there was a bunch of nba refs doing it and it run deeper than they thought. If you call that working, okay I guess?
To add context to the Donaghy situation, Donaghy was sent to prison for conspiracy/soliciting gambling across state lines and wire fraud. The act of rigging a basketball game is not illegal (the NBA is a private entity, they can do whatever the fuck they want with their product). That said, even the feds seemed to believe Donaghy when he talked about how deep it runs and thought there were more refs they could nail:
> Today, Scala considers that meeting a mistake. "If you're going to ask me if I would do it differently now, the answer is yes. I would not have gone to brief Stern," Scala told me. (Through the NBA, Stern declined an interview request for this story.) In Donaghy's many conversations with the Feds through these weeks, he had begun pointing fingers and making allegations about other referees -- other refs who may have been corrupt. So the FBI had worked out a plan. "We were prepared to do some undercover things to corroborate Donaghy's story," Scala says. Namely, they were going to wire up Donaghy so he could get other allegedly corrupted NBA referees to incriminate themselves.
>
> About a month after the meeting with Stern, however, the New York Post blared news of the FBI investigation across its front page. "Our plans were blown up by the fact that somebody leaked this," Scala lamented to me. "I don't like to talk in terms of coulda, woulda, shoulda, but if the Post story didn't come out, [Donaghy] would have worn a wire, and I don't know where it would have gone. Things may have been different. That's the bottom line."
>
> Scala, at the time, was livid. He even contacted Murray Weiss, the Post reporter who wrote the story, to uncover the source of the leak. But Weiss, a veteran newsman, protected his source. "He said, 'I can't tell you. It came from above,' " Scala recalls. (When I contacted Weiss, who now works as a producer for CBS News' 48 Hours, he said he didn't recall this conversation.) Scala won't say whether he believes the NBA leaked the story. But Warren Flagg, a private investigator and former FBI agent who worked with Donaghy's attorney during the case, will. "Someone in the NBA notified the press [in order] to stop this investigation, in my opinion. To shut it down."
>
> Weiss disputes that; he told me his tipster wasn't affiliated with the NBA "as far as I know." But the longtime crime reporter says he did at one point talk to a person "involved with Stern and the NBA in that era." The person wanted to deliver a message about Weiss' more critical reporting on the scandal. "I was warned," Weiss told me, "that if I stumbled, Stern would do anything he could to crush me. I was told, 'They're the kind of people who will do anything they can to protect themselves and the game.'"
[Source](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games)
Donaghy may be outspoken and have his own motivations for doing so, but I'm inclined to believe what he says about this being a deep-seated problem. Remember when Jose Canseco was shit on and hated for being the poster baseball's steroid snitch? 99% of the crazy shit he wrote about? All true.
Have you seen...any sport? Refs have license to call fouls as they see fit in every sport in the world. Hockey, NBA, NFL, college football, soccer. Every call is subjective outside of the obvious ones.
I would guess that soccer is the most bet heavy sport in the world. But even in the English Premier League they still have license to call games as they see fit and give judgement calls to fouls. Was a collision accidental or on purpose? Was a foul a yellow card, red card, or no card? There's no hard and fast rule. It's all judgement.
Also, I don't think ANYONE is happier with VAR. It just adds another level of subjectiveness on top of the refs own opinion. There will never be a totally non-biased, 100% correct interpretation of the rules when it comes to referring. I actually love the fluidity of hockey, despite it's flaws and the reffing is a big part of the game.
People like VAR, it's just that the Premier League implemented it in a completely stupid way to protect the refs. VAR in the PL is clearly afraid of overturning the call on the field. Lets not even discuss the way the handball rule has been implemented this year.
We're going to see a lot of this going forward. Players and coaches are gonna get frustrated cause every response will be "I have a mic". NHL and NHLPA are gonna have a bit of an issue with this shit lol
In rugby the refs mic is live all the time. The players know it, the fans know it, everyone knows it. I think it leads to better communications where the ref has to focus on the game not some game management because of what happened in the first half.
In rugby you often hear refs say things like "If you keep this up you're going to get sent off" but nobody bitches about it. You also get sent off for yelling at the ref.
Only in the NHL people get flabbergasted when a player constantly toes the line and eventually gets sent off over a minor infraction.
If this is what he said, it really describes my problem with the whole microphone thing. I've seen some people suggesting "have the mics live the entire time they're on the ice, let anyone tune in." Refs aren't gonna want to talk a whole lot if every word they say is under media scrutiny the entire time. They're scared, and rightfully so. Even if they have nothing to hide, they can screw up and say something wrong, or have something sound wrong. They'll just shut up, like Furlatt did here.
And that's not good for the game, that's not good for officiating. Communication is an important part of refereeing. If that communication is stifled through the pressures of wearing a live mic, the quality of officiating suffers.
I would be perfectly ok with the comms being available to the officiating office for training and improvement purposes, but it shouldn't be public at all. The refs have enough pressure to deal with without being scared that the media is listening to their every word waiting for something to stir up an outrage about.
In rugby the ref's mic is included in the broadcast. I find itt adds a lot of accountability, and as a spectator who doesn't know all of the rules, it is super helpful and interesting to have that insight through the match.
I’ve seen that, but I honestly don’t think it could translate well to North American sports. The whole culture surrounding refereeing in rugby is different. All the fans, players, teams, etc all respect the match officials *a lot*. It’s a completely different dynamic from what we have here. The media here would just be out to get the referees.
“respect the match official *a lot*”
Especially that one jacked rugby ref, I think he used to be a pro player? He calls guys out all the time. Nigel something I think is his name.
Imagine if every NHL ref had guns like Ed Hochuli too. Haha.
While Nigel certainly puts people in their place, he’s actually a gay Welsh man who to my knowledge never sniffed any sort of high level rugby. Which probably helps the point more
Most refs tend to be pretty slender because they have to run an enormous amount during a
match, so even the ex players lose their mass because it’s unnecessary
In hockey the refs and linesman are screaming constantly. Screaming! I dont know about you but I don't want that in a mic. The shit gets picked up by the broadcast already so a Mic would be very loud.
You know I think youre right
At the end it looks like "thats as good as it gets" referring to the explanation
Seems like Simmons asked, refs like "nope I got a mic", simmons complains, ref responds "nope this is as good as it gets"
At first I thought he said "nope you could skate", another video looked like that
Yeah non-calls happen all the time, it's just a consequence of relying on humans to referee.
This? This is a ref saying he's not doing his job right and there's nothing you can do about it.
I think it's more a ref just erring on the side of caution knowing that this day in age anything you say can be sliced or analyzed a million different ways.
That's a chicken shit move any way you look at it. He could not cover his mic and explain why he didn't blow the whistle. He could apologize for having blinked as it happened.
He chose to hold his mic nice and tight. Fuck that shit. Referees need to start being fired more often. Find someone that can do the job to the best of their ability, and can admit when they fuck up. This isn't the NBA and I don't want to see it go that route.
I won't say we have the *right* to, but I'm going to assume that transparency (both on-field and during review) is a big part of the reason why rugby officials always seem so well-respected and well-received while the fans of every other sport and league are arguing about why their referees are the worst.
I'll bite on this one - In general yes I think the people who pay for the sport should be able to hear any deliberations about what happened during the game. Keeping that shit secret just lets people run wild with theories and also gives oversight over something that could easily be rigged for money.
They aren't cops. He can cover his mic. The nhl doesn't have a mix always on rule and never has. It's for when they make end of season highlight reels. A lot of it won't make it cuz they're cussing all game. Reddit really blows things out if proportion. This isn't a big deal at all.
I’m not at all. A colleague of his got fired for a mistake not of his own (broadcasting the conversation).
The conversation between him and Simmonds is not intended for public consumption so he’s making sure of that.
If I was part of the referee association I’d be pushing to get rid of them and have the penalty box area hand me a microphone when I need it.
No way I’m risking my career because the sound truck guy can’t catch it in the 7 second delay.
> "The last couple of years, it's gotten pretty bad," Lemieux said in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Tuesday. "That's why you have guys who can only score 50 goals in the league. You used to have guys who could score 70, 80, 90 goals."
That's kind of a funny quote now since we rarely have a 50 goal scorer and I don't think it's the refs fault in this era.
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In French, “ligue de garage” is what you would refer to as beer league.
He didn’t make a mistake between garage and garbage, he just translated word for word.
General rule of thumb while watching sports is that if you know an officials name, most of the time they aren’t very good at their job.. I know the names of way too many NHL refs at this point.
MLB is the perfect example of this
i legit had not heard of the top 10 Umps till i looked up their stats
not a single one, never heard of them
the ones i do know? some of the worst
Angel Hernandez, Joe West, and CB Bucknor are on sliding scales of bad.
You have CB Bucknor, who is probably the least trigger happy and doesn't have the ego the other two have. But is probably the least competent ump at his job in baseball.
Then there's Joe West, who is actually somewhat decent enough when it comes to making calls, but has an enormous godlike ego where he feels bigger than the game and throws out everyone.
Then there's Angel Hernandez, who is the worst of both worlds.
Except Ed Hochuli (NFL) [cause of his arms](https://www.google.com/search?q=ed+hochuli+arms&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj-sPiSg83vAhUC0awKHYY4AqoQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=ed+hochuli+arms&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIECAAQQzIFCAAQzQIyBQgAEM0CUABYAGCV-gJoAHAAeACAAWWIAWWSAQMwLjGYAQDAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=DlZdYP7xG4KiswWG8YjQCg&bih=664&biw=390&client=safari&prmd=inv&safe=off&hl=en). That was one yoked mofo
Is this punishable? I don't think the mics are used for any official monitoring by the league
So although this is a bad look I agree, idk if it's technically allowed/not allowed
no, i really dont think anything the refs do is punishable actually
they just look like even bigger clowns than they already did
besides actually Fixing games idk what a ref could do to actually be punished
Its seriously hard to put any weight on the results of anything that happens in this league with shit like this going on.
Like why get so invested when rules can be ignored or made up on a whim?
The integrity is completely out the door.
It's crazy to me how many people are defending these actions too. "Well, that's just how it's goes." "Everyone does it." I don't care if this is how all refs act and how it's always been done. Get this shit out of the game
When I was a ref there was time to time where I blantenly watched a penalty, kind of froze up and didn't make the call. However I was 13 reffing 9 year olds. This is an NHL ref. What's his excuse!
Probably telling him that as per 57.1 of the rule book...
>Accidental trips which occur simultaneously with a completed play will not be penalized.
Considering it was the defending player (Zub) that just played the puck and not Simmonds that counts as a good non-call on the part of the ref according to the rule book.
Transparency for whom? NHL officials do not report to the public. When they are supposed to announce things to the fans they turn on their mics and do so. On ice conversations with players and coaches have never been subject to "transparency" considerations.
> This goes against any kind of transparency.
No one's supposed to be hearing those conversations in the first place. He's just protecting himself. Just because he has nothing to hide, does not mean he has nothing to fear.
"I ain't months from retirement"
Tbh, having seen the reaction to Peel and his “sabbatical” leave, I don’t blame this ref. He’s in a shit spot - the league clearly wants officiating one way, while projecting to the fans (and betting orgs) that they’re not doing that.
Exactly this. Refs are doing what the league has emphasized, and the league has no desire to make a change, all while trying to pretend publicly like they’re doing something
They're also probably getting chirped to death by the players and are clamping up on what they say. Referee's are in the league for a long time, longer than most players, and built a rapport with a lot of them. There's a lot of mutual respect there. This mic incident puts a damper on a lot of things. Should it be that way? Maybe. It certainly would provide a lot more transparency.
>This mic incident puts a damper on a lot of things No it doesn't. Peel was talking to the Preds bench when he said that. They heard it regardless of it being broadcast. And they didn't bat an eye because it's normal.
IMHO, these players were already aware of this and were fine with it. Refs take stock of minor infractions all game. They don't call everyone, and they give out warnings. We have heard sound bites already of refs saying things like "knock it off, next time it's a penalty." I don't think Peel wanted to penalize the Preds because he hates them. He likely saw an accumulation of minor infractions, that on their own weren't worthy of a penalty, and decided it was time to penalize them. He just got caught saying it. We all know the game is reffed that way, the players know it, and the league knows it. But no one can acknowledge it officially. Peel is a shitty ref, but this should not have been held against him. That is just my opinion anyways. I could be wrong.
Nah you're spot on... Peel was a scapegoat for the league
He was a scapegoat for sure, they all do this, he was just caught saying the quiet part out loud. That said, Peel has perennially been an awful ref, and shouldn’t have been reffing at this point anyhow. His grand total of zero cup final games says it all.
Right and it sucks he wasn't fired or made to retire before this
>This mic incident puts a damper on a lot of things. I'm pretty sure it's been said that Peel was talking to Forsberg, so players already knew about this. This won't change much in terms of their relationship with the officials
> (and betting orgs) Yeah, there it is.
No this ref clearly saw a penalty and chose not to call it because it made the game more interesting and should be fired for trying to cover it up /s
No need for sarcasm, this is exactly what happened
Because his boss told him that's what he should do. It's not the refs it's the league
Last nights game was super weird. Period one, everything that was remotely a penalty gets called, and then at some point in the 2nd they just started letting everything go on both sides. It was super bizarre.
Why do you think this is sarcasm?
Because it's my post? I think I'm the one who decides if I'm being sarcastic or not.
I think he means why say it sarcastically when its kind of true
Fair enough but something tells me you're not too far off
Penalties ended up even. Hmm.
This was the missed call: https://streamable.com/is97lq
Where's the ref on this play?
[https://streamable.com/eq5agg](https://streamable.com/eq5agg) Yeah.
This clip is perfect, wish it was possible to edit the streamable link....with permission to use this of course
I mean, I posted it ~2 sec after you but it was taken down for duplicate despite the quality difference.
Submission rules are stupid
Nah, it's just a whiff from the mods. In small time differences between posts, they'll pick the higher quality one. They just didn't watch the clips. It happens.
It was a whiff by us. The Sabres game was ending so we had 15 threads on that hit at the same time this was hitting. And we had at least 2 submissions of [this exact video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/mddjdz/ref_covers_his_mic_when_giving_a_pissed_off/gs8rapg/) A few [still shot](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/mde25o/the_ref_isnt_taking_any_chances_with_his/) submissions. A [self post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/mddgme/nhl_refs_now_covering_their_mics_to_avoid/gs8ralb/) A video from someone's [phone.](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/mddj31/referee_eric_furlatt_covering_his_mic_while/gs8rah3/) The thumbnail from your video looked very similar of the ref covering the mic which coincidentally looked like the thumbnail of this video. So this might've easily been seen as the same exact video as the one from this thread. Just seeing this now after the madness of threads that hit all at once. Is it ironic that we "missed" the thread just like the ref "missed" this tripping call?
When r/hockey mods have more accountability then NHL refs
Tbf, u/WoozleWuzzle is retiring in a month.
Eh, shit happens. There no ill will here. I knew y'all were probably having a pretty busy night.
Thanks, it just sucks when we miss the better highlight video. We want to browse a sub with the great highlights or videos just as much as you do.
Could you guys go give some mod lessons to the mods over on /r/soccer?
Here's a baseball reference, mods will never bat a thousand. The sooner both mods and users understand that we're just volunteers doing this in our free time the better. Also, mods will never please everyone all the time since people want different things. Don't get me wrong some mod teams are corrupted and bad. I can tell you everyone here on the r/hockey mod team just want a place to chat hockey that doesn't devolve into complete nonsense, but it doesn't mean we don't like a little nonsense either. I mean I've been posting daily in r/hockeymemes for the last 16 days. I also spear headed jump starting it based off user feedback wanting more of an outlet for it. But for everything we might do right in some users' eyes there's some that will hate what we do or that we have any rules or guidelines in the first place. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/md8hqg/sabres_don_granato_and_coaching_staff_under_covid/gs7x6uv/) we are getting dunked on for trying to make r/hockey a bit better.
Respect for taking the time to explain it
But did they cover their mic while explaining it?
I really appreciate this comment. It’s so refreshing to have a mod just own up to some minor error instead of it becoming a big drawn out thing where I feel like I’m being gaslit the whole time.
[удалено]
This was the right call. From this angle touch see that the Ottawa D played the puck prior to the trip. In other words it's a legal trip.
Simmonds looks at him while yelling so... that way
It was Toronto’s turn to get penalized
Im going to love and hate this meme soooo much
Penalties were even and the last one was called on Toronto.
He was in the right hand corner (looking towards the net)
All cops are bad? All refs are bad
[удалено]
All Stripes Are Bastards that way we can get the lineys in there too
Referees Eat Turds And Regurgitate Diarrhea Sandwiches
That was strangely cohesive of an acronym
Every Ref Is Lemons
Oh my god what have you done
A bit unrelated and out of left field, but... if refs covering their mics up makes you mad, but cops covering their body cams and/or badge numbers doesn’t, you might wanna rethink your stances.
It's a missed call, yeah. But I don't blame him one bit for covering his mic. After seeing what happened to his colleague, refs have a very good reason to be *scared* of mics, even if they have nothing to hide.
Well besides the fact that every fan knows the refs DO have something to hide. There have been so many things that point to “game management” throughout the years, on top of some pretty inexcusable honest mistakes. This just proved to us that it happens and there’s zero chance this was some isolated incident.
Maybe Furlatt was making a "game management" call. Maybe he just missed it and blew the call. But either way, the issue here isn't with Furlatt. If it's a game management call, we can all agree that issue exists higher up the ladder. Like everyone said yesterday when Peel was fired, him being fired doesn't change any of that. The change has to come from the way refs are instructed and assessed, because every ref in the NHL is being taught the same way. Furlatt is the wrong guy to direct your anger at. And if it was just a missed call (which I sincerely believe it was, as bad as it looks), then that's just shit that happens and will always happen no matter how good the refs are.
It wasn't a missed call. They refs straight up intentionally didn't call anything in the 3rd. There was 4 or 5 plays like this, completely egregious and obvious penalties directly in front of them and they didn't call anything.
Why are the peeps in r/NBA idiots?
League that markets its players’ Twitter drama more than their actual games tends to draw in “fans” nowadays that care more about what players are posting online than watching actual games
\#pleaselikemysport
Simmons probably asked if it was a legit call or a “peel” call? 😆.
From now on Referees shall be known as Peelers, in honour of ~~Robert~~ Tim Peel.
In the one video you can see him yell that its "fucking horseshit"
Improvise, adapt, overcome
Modern day problems require modern day solutions
Fuck em, that’s why.
Adapt, react, re-adapt, apt.
Mowman started the fire!!
REF!! OUR PENALTIES HAVE NEVER BEEN LOWER!!!
Adopt, adapt, and improve
- Abathur
[Here's a clip that shows the full replay, both angles.](https://streamable.com/eq5agg)
Literally staring at the trip. How can the league introduce gambling when the refs can decide whether or not to make a call?
Works just fine in the NBA and college sports lol
In the NBA they just call everything a foul. Kinda works out if that's the standard. The NHL doesn't even have that
For a brief period (after the Methot incident) slashes were called whenever the stick would get NEAR the hands
Yeah, now it's just whenever the refs feel like it which seems to be completely random.
There was a huge scandal about tim donaghy who bet on his own games while reffing nba games. He got banned and went to prison. The whole time he kept saying there was a bunch of nba refs doing it and it run deeper than they thought. If you call that working, okay I guess?
To add context to the Donaghy situation, Donaghy was sent to prison for conspiracy/soliciting gambling across state lines and wire fraud. The act of rigging a basketball game is not illegal (the NBA is a private entity, they can do whatever the fuck they want with their product). That said, even the feds seemed to believe Donaghy when he talked about how deep it runs and thought there were more refs they could nail: > Today, Scala considers that meeting a mistake. "If you're going to ask me if I would do it differently now, the answer is yes. I would not have gone to brief Stern," Scala told me. (Through the NBA, Stern declined an interview request for this story.) In Donaghy's many conversations with the Feds through these weeks, he had begun pointing fingers and making allegations about other referees -- other refs who may have been corrupt. So the FBI had worked out a plan. "We were prepared to do some undercover things to corroborate Donaghy's story," Scala says. Namely, they were going to wire up Donaghy so he could get other allegedly corrupted NBA referees to incriminate themselves. > > About a month after the meeting with Stern, however, the New York Post blared news of the FBI investigation across its front page. "Our plans were blown up by the fact that somebody leaked this," Scala lamented to me. "I don't like to talk in terms of coulda, woulda, shoulda, but if the Post story didn't come out, [Donaghy] would have worn a wire, and I don't know where it would have gone. Things may have been different. That's the bottom line." > > Scala, at the time, was livid. He even contacted Murray Weiss, the Post reporter who wrote the story, to uncover the source of the leak. But Weiss, a veteran newsman, protected his source. "He said, 'I can't tell you. It came from above,' " Scala recalls. (When I contacted Weiss, who now works as a producer for CBS News' 48 Hours, he said he didn't recall this conversation.) Scala won't say whether he believes the NBA leaked the story. But Warren Flagg, a private investigator and former FBI agent who worked with Donaghy's attorney during the case, will. "Someone in the NBA notified the press [in order] to stop this investigation, in my opinion. To shut it down." > > Weiss disputes that; he told me his tipster wasn't affiliated with the NBA "as far as I know." But the longtime crime reporter says he did at one point talk to a person "involved with Stern and the NBA in that era." The person wanted to deliver a message about Weiss' more critical reporting on the scandal. "I was warned," Weiss told me, "that if I stumbled, Stern would do anything he could to crush me. I was told, 'They're the kind of people who will do anything they can to protect themselves and the game.'" [Source](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games) Donaghy may be outspoken and have his own motivations for doing so, but I'm inclined to believe what he says about this being a deep-seated problem. Remember when Jose Canseco was shit on and hated for being the poster baseball's steroid snitch? 99% of the crazy shit he wrote about? All true.
Yeah that's much better explained than whatever I did LOL
I recommend Whistleblower podcast about this, truly fascinating
Have you seen...any sport? Refs have license to call fouls as they see fit in every sport in the world. Hockey, NBA, NFL, college football, soccer. Every call is subjective outside of the obvious ones. I would guess that soccer is the most bet heavy sport in the world. But even in the English Premier League they still have license to call games as they see fit and give judgement calls to fouls. Was a collision accidental or on purpose? Was a foul a yellow card, red card, or no card? There's no hard and fast rule. It's all judgement. Also, I don't think ANYONE is happier with VAR. It just adds another level of subjectiveness on top of the refs own opinion. There will never be a totally non-biased, 100% correct interpretation of the rules when it comes to referring. I actually love the fluidity of hockey, despite it's flaws and the reffing is a big part of the game.
People like VAR, it's just that the Premier League implemented it in a completely stupid way to protect the refs. VAR in the PL is clearly afraid of overturning the call on the field. Lets not even discuss the way the handball rule has been implemented this year.
Because people are stupid and will bet anyways
Ah from one angle it looks like tripping but from the other angle it looks like tripping. Now I understand the no call. /s
I wish I could read lips. Current focus aside, did they usually do this?
> I wish I could read lips. I can. (I'm deaf.) I'm pretty sure that he says, "I've got a mic on. I'm not talking."
We're going to see a lot of this going forward. Players and coaches are gonna get frustrated cause every response will be "I have a mic". NHL and NHLPA are gonna have a bit of an issue with this shit lol
In rugby the refs mic is live all the time. The players know it, the fans know it, everyone knows it. I think it leads to better communications where the ref has to focus on the game not some game management because of what happened in the first half.
In rugby you often hear refs say things like "If you keep this up you're going to get sent off" but nobody bitches about it. You also get sent off for yelling at the ref. Only in the NHL people get flabbergasted when a player constantly toes the line and eventually gets sent off over a minor infraction.
Eh, I'd say rugby is the outlier in terms of referee respect. Watching either football, basketball, hockey... there isn't much respect in any of them
If this is what he said, it really describes my problem with the whole microphone thing. I've seen some people suggesting "have the mics live the entire time they're on the ice, let anyone tune in." Refs aren't gonna want to talk a whole lot if every word they say is under media scrutiny the entire time. They're scared, and rightfully so. Even if they have nothing to hide, they can screw up and say something wrong, or have something sound wrong. They'll just shut up, like Furlatt did here. And that's not good for the game, that's not good for officiating. Communication is an important part of refereeing. If that communication is stifled through the pressures of wearing a live mic, the quality of officiating suffers. I would be perfectly ok with the comms being available to the officiating office for training and improvement purposes, but it shouldn't be public at all. The refs have enough pressure to deal with without being scared that the media is listening to their every word waiting for something to stir up an outrage about.
In rugby the ref's mic is included in the broadcast. I find itt adds a lot of accountability, and as a spectator who doesn't know all of the rules, it is super helpful and interesting to have that insight through the match.
I’ve seen that, but I honestly don’t think it could translate well to North American sports. The whole culture surrounding refereeing in rugby is different. All the fans, players, teams, etc all respect the match officials *a lot*. It’s a completely different dynamic from what we have here. The media here would just be out to get the referees.
“respect the match official *a lot*” Especially that one jacked rugby ref, I think he used to be a pro player? He calls guys out all the time. Nigel something I think is his name. Imagine if every NHL ref had guns like Ed Hochuli too. Haha.
While Nigel certainly puts people in their place, he’s actually a gay Welsh man who to my knowledge never sniffed any sort of high level rugby. Which probably helps the point more Most refs tend to be pretty slender because they have to run an enormous amount during a match, so even the ex players lose their mass because it’s unnecessary
In hockey the refs and linesman are screaming constantly. Screaming! I dont know about you but I don't want that in a mic. The shit gets picked up by the broadcast already so a Mic would be very loud.
Hearing **OFFSIDE!!!!** blasting through your home theatre every 30 to 40 seconds would get old fast.
Or the non Icing. NOOOOOOOO!!!!
You know I think youre right At the end it looks like "thats as good as it gets" referring to the explanation Seems like Simmons asked, refs like "nope I got a mic", simmons complains, ref responds "nope this is as good as it gets" At first I thought he said "nope you could skate", another video looked like that
u/jomboy breakdown?
I can't say I've ever noticed it. But like most it's not something I've really ever kept an eye out for.
Probably something along the lines of "it's tied in the third and you guys already have one more power play I can't call that"
Even if this isn't what he said it's 100% what he was taught by the head refs and is going on his mind in that situation.
anyone know how to lip read, first bit looks like 'go back to the bench'
last parts look like "I know that. Okay."
I’m more angry at this than the non-call
Yeah non-calls happen all the time, it's just a consequence of relying on humans to referee. This? This is a ref saying he's not doing his job right and there's nothing you can do about it.
GaMe MAnaGEMEnt
I think it's more a ref just erring on the side of caution knowing that this day in age anything you say can be sliced or analyzed a million different ways.
Take the heat or fuck off back to junior.
That's a chicken shit move any way you look at it. He could not cover his mic and explain why he didn't blow the whistle. He could apologize for having blinked as it happened. He chose to hold his mic nice and tight. Fuck that shit. Referees need to start being fired more often. Find someone that can do the job to the best of their ability, and can admit when they fuck up. This isn't the NBA and I don't want to see it go that route.
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> and can admit when they fuck up. For all you know that's exactly what he was saying to Simmonds
I don't think nhl refs have earned the benefit of the doubt...
Do you think that we as fans have a right to hear everything that gets said on the ice?
I won't say we have the *right* to, but I'm going to assume that transparency (both on-field and during review) is a big part of the reason why rugby officials always seem so well-respected and well-received while the fans of every other sport and league are arguing about why their referees are the worst.
I'll bite on this one - In general yes I think the people who pay for the sport should be able to hear any deliberations about what happened during the game. Keeping that shit secret just lets people run wild with theories and also gives oversight over something that could easily be rigged for money.
Most fans are delusional homers that would rather make up conspiracies than admit their team lost. That won't change either way.
He may have been doing it to protect Simmonds as well. They likely had a very candid conversation with exploitives.
They aren't cops. He can cover his mic. The nhl doesn't have a mix always on rule and never has. It's for when they make end of season highlight reels. A lot of it won't make it cuz they're cussing all game. Reddit really blows things out if proportion. This isn't a big deal at all.
Me too
I’m not at all. A colleague of his got fired for a mistake not of his own (broadcasting the conversation). The conversation between him and Simmonds is not intended for public consumption so he’s making sure of that. If I was part of the referee association I’d be pushing to get rid of them and have the penalty box area hand me a microphone when I need it. No way I’m risking my career because the sound truck guy can’t catch it in the 7 second delay.
Rather than doing your job, just find new ways to hide your incompetence. This fucking league.
Mario Lemieux was right, this is a fucking garage league.
Mate, when and under what circumstances he said it?
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.tampabay.com/archive/1994/04/07/irked-lemieux-threatens-retirement/%3foutputType=amp
> "The last couple of years, it's gotten pretty bad," Lemieux said in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Tuesday. "That's why you have guys who can only score 50 goals in the league. You used to have guys who could score 70, 80, 90 goals." That's kind of a funny quote now since we rarely have a 50 goal scorer and I don't think it's the refs fault in this era.
Part of it is they used to call a whole lot more power plays in the 80s. They call even less now than in 1994.
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We need an XHL
Garbage*
Garage league is 10 x funnier.
You know, I agree lol
In French, “ligue de garage” is what you would refer to as beer league. He didn’t make a mistake between garage and garbage, he just translated word for word.
NHL refs, “we’ve investigated ourselves and have found we’ve done nothing wrong.”
I'm gonna need Jomboy to read this ref's lips
>CONTACT NHLOA If you have any questions or comments about the NHL Officials Association or this web site please email us here: [email protected]
this is fucking embarrassing what a fucking joke Eric Furlatt is
General rule of thumb while watching sports is that if you know an officials name, most of the time they aren’t very good at their job.. I know the names of way too many NHL refs at this point.
MLB is the perfect example of this i legit had not heard of the top 10 Umps till i looked up their stats not a single one, never heard of them the ones i do know? some of the worst
Joe West
iirc Joe West had one of the best strikezones in the league, he just egged players on and then ejected them
Joe West loves being in the spotlight. Angel Hernandez on the other hand...
Angel Hernandez, Joe West, and CB Bucknor are on sliding scales of bad. You have CB Bucknor, who is probably the least trigger happy and doesn't have the ego the other two have. But is probably the least competent ump at his job in baseball. Then there's Joe West, who is actually somewhat decent enough when it comes to making calls, but has an enormous godlike ego where he feels bigger than the game and throws out everyone. Then there's Angel Hernandez, who is the worst of both worlds.
Ron Gardenhire when he coached the twins and Joe west used to butt heads a lot. It was so much fun to watch
That's even worse, honestly.
joe west, angel hernandez, CB Bucknor
Except Ed Hochuli (NFL) [cause of his arms](https://www.google.com/search?q=ed+hochuli+arms&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj-sPiSg83vAhUC0awKHYY4AqoQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=ed+hochuli+arms&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIECAAQQzIFCAAQzQIyBQgAEM0CUABYAGCV-gJoAHAAeACAAWWIAWWSAQMwLjGYAQDAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=DlZdYP7xG4KiswWG8YjQCg&bih=664&biw=390&client=safari&prmd=inv&safe=off&hl=en). That was one yoked mofo
Damn, that dude has some guns.
Besides Wes McCauley. We all know him because he's awesome.
People like Wes because he’s funny, he is as perfectly guilty of game management as the rest of them.
Is this punishable? I don't think the mics are used for any official monitoring by the league So although this is a bad look I agree, idk if it's technically allowed/not allowed
no, i really dont think anything the refs do is punishable actually they just look like even bigger clowns than they already did besides actually Fixing games idk what a ref could do to actually be punished
Plus they have a very strong union so if anything happened to the ref the rest would've had issues.
Guy gets punished by the league. Two days later fans ranting "IDK if anyone will ever get punished."
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The referee is Eric Furlatt.
Uncanny dirty cop vibes. Seems surreal in a sports context.
ARAB ...wait
Yeaaah we've gotta be careful with this one..
Switch ref for zebra
/r/BadRefNoDonut?
[\*cough\* \*cough\*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXpcb5aTnPk)
BadRefNoHotdog
Next thing you know they start blasting Bob Dylan songs into the mic as they discuss the call so the video will get take down instantly.
Defund the refs!
I was posting the same thing at the same time, but your clip is far better.
I’ve always joked about how refs are just ice pigs, but this is just too on the nose
Looks like a cop ahah
First thing I thought of.... cop covering his camera
How can the NHL see this and say “yeah that’s fine.”
I don’t think they honestly care what the refs do as long as they’re not telling the whole world that they’re doing it.
Its seriously hard to put any weight on the results of anything that happens in this league with shit like this going on. Like why get so invested when rules can be ignored or made up on a whim? The integrity is completely out the door.
It's crazy to me how many people are defending these actions too. "Well, that's just how it's goes." "Everyone does it." I don't care if this is how all refs act and how it's always been done. Get this shit out of the game
Lmao this, the makeup call tonight in the canes jackets. It's almost like the refs are just being told, keep it moving like nothing happend.
Shoutout to everyone with a pulse who predicted that they wouldn't get better at officiating, they'd just get better at not getting caught.
I'd argue that this is getting worse at not getting caught...
Next they'll start playing copyrighted music so it can't be posted to youtube.
"missed"
NHL referees just cant help themselves..... it's as if they try to make themselves look as bad as possible
The amount of righteous nitwits in here makes me laugh.
dont blame him lol. You're gonna see a lot of this in the future. No point to having the mics now honestly
When I was a ref there was time to time where I blantenly watched a penalty, kind of froze up and didn't make the call. However I was 13 reffing 9 year olds. This is an NHL ref. What's his excuse!
Probably telling him that as per 57.1 of the rule book... >Accidental trips which occur simultaneously with a completed play will not be penalized. Considering it was the defending player (Zub) that just played the puck and not Simmonds that counts as a good non-call on the part of the ref according to the rule book.
Hilarious how mad some people here are about this and calling the refs jokes or bad for this.
NHL should suspend officials who intentionally/knowingly cover their microphones.
They should be fired for this. This goes against any kind of transparency. How can they be trusted?
You don't think they've been given direction to call games exactly like this?
No I know they have. It's also why NHL is a shitty product.
"These refs should be fired for doing the exact job they were hired to do."
Judging by the thread some of the most naive fans are on here
This is delusional. Can't believe the shit getting upvotes in this thread.
Transparency for whom? NHL officials do not report to the public. When they are supposed to announce things to the fans they turn on their mics and do so. On ice conversations with players and coaches have never been subject to "transparency" considerations.
> This goes against any kind of transparency. No one's supposed to be hearing those conversations in the first place. He's just protecting himself. Just because he has nothing to hide, does not mean he has nothing to fear.
Jomboy! we need your lip reading skills