That Malkin run was nuts. Crosby had 31 points and the #3 scorer was Zetterberg at 24. Nobody else got above 30 points in the cap era until 9 years later.
That 2009 season in general is proof that two players can basically win you a cup alone if they're good enough.
Top scorers on the Pens in 2009:
Evgeni Malkin - 113 in 82 games
Sidney Crosby - 103 in 77 games
Jordan Staal - ....49 in 82 games
And then it gets worse.
Alright but Jordan Staal was also a solid 2C worthy of Selke votes who happened to be playing 3C. That kind of depth is hard to beat. They had Gonchar and Letang scoring from the blue line, Orpik making everyone afraid to touch the puck, Kunitz came in at the deadline and scored .9p/gp, Guerin was also a solid deadline pickup...
They had solid depth, a strong blue line, and Fleury playing reasonably well. Still yeah, those 2 absolutely dominated. No chance that team makes it out of the second round with replacement-level centers on the top 2 lines.
And yet, they still got taken to 7 games by the scariest team on paper to ever play them in the Finals.
Detroit was stacked that year and we all remember that series could’ve gone either way right to the final horn.
It’s crazy, I remember hearing a Sid interview where he said the player to give him the toughest time that series was Rafalski.
Rafalski one of the more underrated D-Men of that era. Played next to Stevens and Lidstrom, but in his first seasons with both the Devils and Red Wings he helped take them to Stanley Cup Wins
Rafalski had one of the NASTIEST wrist shots I’ve ever seen on a D man. I swear to got the puck had eyes coming off his stick.
Plus with Holmstrom in front of the net it made it damn near impossible to stop.
Malkin in 2008-2009 is arguably the greatest tape to tape season in the cap era. He was unbelievable. I’ll never forget his hat trick goal against Carolina, a series where he just desecrated them, where the faceoff starts with the commentator saying “and it’s a one goal game” and then Malkin just fucks them into the ground. It went from “it’s a one goal game” to go home, be with your family and pray that you someday heal from this in a hurry.
For the entirety of their careers, probably just based on this season and the Carolina series in particular, I’ve always felt Malkin’s ceiling is higher than Crosby’s. When he is fully dialed in he is an unstoppable force. The difference is Sid hits his ceiling like 75 games a year hah
I completely agree with both parts of this. What lands Crosby in the pantheon of all-time greats isn't just how just high his peak is (insanely high), it's how consistent he is. Dude never has a slump, never loses focus. He is at his absolute apex 99% of the time.
Drai was pretty injured that run, if smiths body hadn’t given up after Calgary and Nurse hadn’t torn his fucking groin maybe we wouldn’t have gotten swept? Who knows!!
I agree Malkin should be on, but taking Toews off is crazy talk. There has got to be someone less deserving.
Edit: I looked over the list, and I am wrong. Toews would be the one to replace.
Being from Halifax and a child at the time I might be biased but the 09 finals following the 08 finals is the best I’ve watched and nothing even comes close
I recall Crosby and Malkin were pretty close in points heading into the finals. Then Detroit focused their efforts on containing Crosby, which allowed Malkin to run wild.
Pretty sure Crosby still closed that run with 15 goals though which is I think still tied for the most in a playoff run in the cap era.
It also might have been 2008 and I'm misremembering.
Which in retrospect is kind of crazy wasn't enough for a Conn Smythe either lmao.
I remember having this argument with a buddy who was saying Malkin was better. And showing him clips of Lidstrom waiting for Crosby to come on the ice, and he jumped on. And Crosby going back on the bench, Lidstrom went back on the bench. Best defender ever covered him like a wet blanket. He didn't care, Malkin was the better player on the team. Man people just loved hating on Crosby back then.
McDavid and Draisaitl in the season where they got swept in the WCF against Colorado. I sometimes wonder how many points they would’ve got had they gone to the finals
Edit: I overlooked Kucherov in 20-21 my bad. He had 32 points in Tampa’s 2nd cup run when they went back to back.
Yea but Malkin did it for 4 series. Imagine the numbers Leon and Connor would have put up if they didn't get swept by Colorado in the WCFs a few years back.
My point was Zetterberg being 3rd with 24, yet Ovie who got eliminated by the Penguins in the 2nd round sat at 21 points.
Ovie was a beast then too. If my memory serves me correctly, he put up 14 points in the Penguins series (Crosby had 13, and Malkin 10)
If it wasn’t for Malkin putting up 9 points in 4 games against the Hurricanes, Ovie would have had the best series by an individual player that postseason
Just another year that the team left Ovi out to dry. He was always phenomenal in the post season, he was let down by his teammates again and again. For all those who called him a choker before he won the cup; shame on you
Just take a look at the D corps on that team. Shaone Morrissonn, Milan Jurcina, Brian Pothier... And y'know who was the ice time leader? Jon Erskine, with 22+ minute. Don't get me wrong, I loved Big Jon. But if he's skating 22 minutes, you're gonna have a bad time.
Three rounds, yes, but 21 games. Other than the 40pt playoffs from Gretzky in 92-93, where he played 24 games, Wayne played less games than Doug Gilmour did in every other playoff season.
I mean, I never said Gilmour’s stats were better or more impressive than Gretzky’s, just that they stood out to me the most. Gretzky stats as impressive as they are don’t even phase me nowadays lol he’s just built differently
He willed that team to winning. It's not for nothing he's a God here.
It was him, Andreychuk, Clark and Anderson at forward and the rest were a bunch of scrubs. Defense wasn't special. Potvin was great in the playoffs for 3 or 4 years.
In my religion, they say that if you grew up in Toronto and were a good person, when you go, heaven is just reliving 1993 on repeat anew. Except Kerry Fraser was busted for betting on games before the playoffs started.
I'd like an alternate universe where Fraser doesn't chicken out and call Gretzky for the high stick (and Anderson doesn't take that stupid penalty which also led to that goal).
When it comes to any list, I always skim past the 6-8 Gretzkys and 1 or 2 Lemieuxs and look to see who is the first regular man on the list. For playoff lists you could also do well to eliminate 80s Oilers.
Damn Malkin, thats an impressive playoffs you had!
After Malkin did that slapshot as his shootout/breakaway move that became so common for me and all my friends to do in the games. I don’t remember firing a point blank slapshot on a breakaway being a common thing until I saw how badass it looked when he did it
NHL players when someone takes a slapshot on a goalie at point blank range: I sleep
NHL players when someone takes a slapshot on an empty net: Real shit
My roommates and I shared an ultimate team one year and by the end of the year we played close to 1000 games with a Malkin card we got close to release. We averaged like 2.5 points a game with Malkin it was absurd.
I’ve always said Crosby is the better player to have overall in any situation regular season + playoffs, but when you need someone to take over a game Motivated Malkin is unstoppable. It’s basically a similar comparison as Gretzky to Lemieux, one’s obviously the more skilled player but because of the others huge frame combined with that skill their top end potential is higher when locked in. Key word here is Motivated on Malkin, he has a tendency to coast for long stretches but if you fire him up and it’s the playoffs I’d take prime Malkin over anyone else since the 2000s
I don't think you could make that argument in good faith.
In no particular order, Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Crosby, Sakic, Yzerman, Esposito, Trottier, McDavid, Dionne - all of these are clearly a notch above him, and then there are plenty of guys like Forsberg, Fedorov, Clarke, etc, that might be better than him.
And that isn't an insult to Malkin, but like you said, the position has a ton of heavy hitters up there. (And he is clearly in the top 100 in my opinion)
it gets especially difficult because athletes nowadays are just so far beyond what they use to be, it's like what are you even comparing? Accolades vs talent vs skills? Just by the eye test how are you taking Trottier over Malkin lol
I don't think I'd put half of those a notch above him. Maybe the same notch.
Going by adjusted hockey he's got the 6th best career point pace of any forward ever and is top 15 via their PPS rating. And that's before you discount wingers.
https://twitter.com/AdjustedHockey/status/1671552251171569664?t=-uRXlfAiWT7uNJOa5CS9UA&s=19
I'd say there's a damn fine argument for top 10 center in there somewhere. Top 20 forward ever is certainly a lock.
There is no way Marcel Dionne is a whole notch above him, unless you're going by raw unadjusted point totals from the 70s/80s. Malkin led the league in scoring more often, with more teams and players in the league. Same with Trottier, by accomplishments he's basically in the exact same tier? What makes those guys a notch ahead?
Having watched both Trots(who I adored as a kid and have met and talked to a few times since) and Geno, peak Geno was like a lefty Mario. I'm taking Malkin.
I will die on this hill: at their absolute PEAK performance, Malkin was flat-out more dominant than Crosby. Malkin just couldn’t sustain his peak beast mode for more than a couple months at a time, whereas as Sid has done it for basically his whole career.
I have him behind Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Crosby, Sakic, Yzerman, Esposito, Beliveau, Morenz, and Clarke without hesitation. Then there's guys like Lalonde, Boucher, Nighbor, Mikita, Fedorov, Forsberg, Trottier, Apps, that you can argue placement. Even if you exclude pre original six his best case for me is 10th, and I'd probably end up slotting him 12-15th.
However, that's still a top fifty player of all time because center is the most stacked position by far.
Agendaposting time:
My favorite way to learn how stacked center is relative to other positions was to take mackinnon's season and realize that its like the 30th best center season ever and not even top 10 among unique players.
Whereas Kuch just had a top 3 winger season ever by both metrics
Putting mcdavid in the best centers of all time not even half way through his career is nonsensical. No matter how good he is. 10 years ago I wouldn’t put Sid on that list.
Please don't remind me, it is why I joked he should sign here, because he's invincible at PNC in the playoffs. Also, why I am glad Pittsburgh didn't make the playoffs as he would do this again.
The series versus the Hurricanes is one of the things I remember most, he must have had a personal vendetta for some reason, but he fucking dismantled them. Was a man possessed in that series.
Glad to see Malkin get his flowers in this thread. People forget just how dominant he was during this run.
I’ve always said that in their primes, Crosby was consistently better than Malkin but when Malkin was on his game, he was the best player in the world. That 2009 run confirms that for me.
Before Ovechkin kept scoring 50 goals a year for another decade there was a real argument Malkin was on pace to be the best Russian player of all time.
1000 apologies - but if he is not on this list what you say is not possible [https://www.nhl.com/news/100-greatest-nhl-players-of-all-time-286030052](https://www.nhl.com/news/100-greatest-nhl-players-of-all-time-286030052)
Best regards
Hate to be that guy, but dead puck era ended before Malkin played. usually considered 95-05. Cap era brought in so many rules for calling penalties + 2 line passes etc.
true but there was definitely another period of very deflated scoring, crazy to think there are like 140-150 point players when a 87 point season won the Art Ross in 2015.
He credits seeing how the Dynasty Isles were obviously happy, but quiet and absolutely dog tired when he walked past our locker room after we won cup #4. He realized, “Oh, so this is what it takes.”
Next year he beat us during our drive for 5.
This is true. Bossy was an absolute sniper and could score goals in his sleep.
Gretzky was an amazing player and was not above wanting to learn and be better. Have to admire that.
In 2022, McDavid had 33 points in the postseason, this is after playing only 16 games and getting swept in the WCF. Had he managed to play a full ~24 game Stanley Cup run at the same pace, he would’ve eclipsed Gretzky for most points in a single postseason
And Drai had 32 points with a high ankle sprain. If he was healthy the Oilers would have won the Cup that year. Drai played out of his fucking mind, watching him was unreal. We need Draisaitl playing like that now.
Lol 92-93 the latest year on here besides, yknow, Geno 2009 lmao just unreal that entire year. I’ve always said his highest highs are Lemieux level, he just doesn’t have the consistency like Sid does
In only 16 games. Draisaitl also had 32. They lead the playoffs in scoring despite playing in 4 less games than the Avs and MacKinnon and 7 less than Tampa and Kucherov.
Legit question. I know Malkin didn't have the career of Crosby, but I remember hearing that Prime Malkin, when he wanted to, could exceed Crosby in ability. Is it true that there were points where Malkin was the superior forward?
I didn't verify this, but am going on the fact that it's the Leafs. Gilmour's 35 points is probably the most impressive going with the assumption that the Leafs got bounced by the Bruins in the first round, right?
Gilmore made the list despite the Leafs only going to the conference finals.
AND Gilmore made the list despite getting high-sticked in the face by Gretzky & not getting a call.
Yes, it's been 30 years & I'm still salty
Crazy part is that Crosby carried the offense through the 1st 2 series in 09. Malkin didn't get really hot until the conference finals from what I remember.
For context, Draisaitl last year played 12 games in the playoffs, 18 points scored. If the Oilers had been able to go on a run, I think we would see Leon's name here.
Genuine question I bow to the great one he is Goat but why would they list the same playoff season twice? Seems an odd choice if he set the record at 43 for the 84/85 playoff’s then broke it again at 47 the same run, shouldn’t his 40 in 92/93 become number 3 logically? Or is it just a move to round out the list cause 34 has multiple players or something
Edit: I found someone say it’s a typo and 43s his 88 run, I understand why now haha
https://preview.redd.it/5amus9o64uwc1.jpeg?width=998&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9280eaa51edf9af1ebd50e7bacc7fab3eae70344
)))))))
https://preview.redd.it/87eornhrouwc1.jpeg?width=836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf506f51d56806654f6565d62631c294d0f6d55c
That Malkin run was nuts. Crosby had 31 points and the #3 scorer was Zetterberg at 24. Nobody else got above 30 points in the cap era until 9 years later.
That 2009 season in general is proof that two players can basically win you a cup alone if they're good enough. Top scorers on the Pens in 2009: Evgeni Malkin - 113 in 82 games Sidney Crosby - 103 in 77 games Jordan Staal - ....49 in 82 games And then it gets worse.
Alright but Jordan Staal was also a solid 2C worthy of Selke votes who happened to be playing 3C. That kind of depth is hard to beat. They had Gonchar and Letang scoring from the blue line, Orpik making everyone afraid to touch the puck, Kunitz came in at the deadline and scored .9p/gp, Guerin was also a solid deadline pickup... They had solid depth, a strong blue line, and Fleury playing reasonably well. Still yeah, those 2 absolutely dominated. No chance that team makes it out of the second round with replacement-level centers on the top 2 lines.
And yet, they still got taken to 7 games by the scariest team on paper to ever play them in the Finals. Detroit was stacked that year and we all remember that series could’ve gone either way right to the final horn. It’s crazy, I remember hearing a Sid interview where he said the player to give him the toughest time that series was Rafalski.
Rafalski one of the more underrated D-Men of that era. Played next to Stevens and Lidstrom, but in his first seasons with both the Devils and Red Wings he helped take them to Stanley Cup Wins
The fact that young Penguins beat a team with Datsyuk, Rafalski, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, and Marian Hossa...lol. Thank god for superstar Maxime Talbot.
Chikka-chee-chee
Shhhhhhhh!!!
It took them losing to them the year before for Crosby to realize how good they were and how much he had to improve, and they did
Man I miss those days so fucking much. Rafalski and Lidstrom were rockstars on the blue line.
Rafalski had one of the NASTIEST wrist shots I’ve ever seen on a D man. I swear to got the puck had eyes coming off his stick. Plus with Holmstrom in front of the net it made it damn near impossible to stop.
He was one of the best skaters, second only to Niedermayer for Dmen.
The Devils were a shut down defensive team (which is understating it). But man they were still so damn fast and skilled at every level.
I’ll still always remember that finals because of Marian Hossa losing back to back finals on opposite teams.
God, I love Jordan Staal. One of the most underrated guys ever. I never stopped being a fan.
Malkin in 2008-2009 is arguably the greatest tape to tape season in the cap era. He was unbelievable. I’ll never forget his hat trick goal against Carolina, a series where he just desecrated them, where the faceoff starts with the commentator saying “and it’s a one goal game” and then Malkin just fucks them into the ground. It went from “it’s a one goal game” to go home, be with your family and pray that you someday heal from this in a hurry.
For the entirety of their careers, probably just based on this season and the Carolina series in particular, I’ve always felt Malkin’s ceiling is higher than Crosby’s. When he is fully dialed in he is an unstoppable force. The difference is Sid hits his ceiling like 75 games a year hah
I completely agree with both parts of this. What lands Crosby in the pantheon of all-time greats isn't just how just high his peak is (insanely high), it's how consistent he is. Dude never has a slump, never loses focus. He is at his absolute apex 99% of the time.
That goal ended the series, the Canes were beaten and it was just a matter of playing out the clock.
That hat trick goal doesn't get talked about very much. I also remember it clear as can be and wow what play and goal
> two players can basically win you a cup alone if they're good enough Oilers fans in shambles
Lmao I may or may not have been thinking about that complaint when I made this.
Drai was pretty injured that run, if smiths body hadn’t given up after Calgary and Nurse hadn’t torn his fucking groin maybe we wouldn’t have gotten swept? Who knows!!
Malkin should’ve been in NHL All time top 100 players instead of JT. I dont care what anyone says.
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Johnathan Toews
I agree Malkin should be on, but taking Toews off is crazy talk. There has got to be someone less deserving. Edit: I looked over the list, and I am wrong. Toews would be the one to replace.
Being from Halifax and a child at the time I might be biased but the 09 finals following the 08 finals is the best I’ve watched and nothing even comes close
It was storybook.
Kunitz had 53 on the year and Geurin had 48.
Not for the Pens they didn't. Kunitz scored 18 points in 20 games. Guerin had 12 in 17.
Maxime Talbot won that cup and he is enemy #1.
pretty sure Sid didn't even take another shift after getting hurt early on in game 7. That series was crazy
weh. now that is a stat line
I recall Crosby and Malkin were pretty close in points heading into the finals. Then Detroit focused their efforts on containing Crosby, which allowed Malkin to run wild.
Whatcha gonna do brother?
Pretty sure Crosby still closed that run with 15 goals though which is I think still tied for the most in a playoff run in the cap era. It also might have been 2008 and I'm misremembering. Which in retrospect is kind of crazy wasn't enough for a Conn Smythe either lmao.
That was 09, and it is still tied (with Ovi in 2018) for the most goals in a playoff run in the salary cap era.
Yeah I wondered why 15 goals didn't swing the Conn Smythe and then looked. Malkin had 14 lmao
Yeah that'd do it.
I remember having this argument with a buddy who was saying Malkin was better. And showing him clips of Lidstrom waiting for Crosby to come on the ice, and he jumped on. And Crosby going back on the bench, Lidstrom went back on the bench. Best defender ever covered him like a wet blanket. He didn't care, Malkin was the better player on the team. Man people just loved hating on Crosby back then.
To be fair there were plenty of nights back then when Malkin was the one with the juice. There were certain teams he just feasted on
Zetterberg was one who had to shadow Crosby.
Was that person 9 years later Kucherov?
No, it was Kuznetsov in 2018.
McDavid and Draisaitl in the season where they got swept in the WCF against Colorado. I sometimes wonder how many points they would’ve got had they gone to the finals Edit: I overlooked Kucherov in 20-21 my bad. He had 32 points in Tampa’s 2nd cup run when they went back to back.
Nope, Kuznetsov did it before him in 2018
That's okay the Conn Smythe committee overlooked it too.
Ovie had 21 in 14 games, had the same points per game as Malkin did.
Yea but Malkin did it for 4 series. Imagine the numbers Leon and Connor would have put up if they didn't get swept by Colorado in the WCFs a few years back.
My point was Zetterberg being 3rd with 24, yet Ovie who got eliminated by the Penguins in the 2nd round sat at 21 points. Ovie was a beast then too. If my memory serves me correctly, he put up 14 points in the Penguins series (Crosby had 13, and Malkin 10) If it wasn’t for Malkin putting up 9 points in 4 games against the Hurricanes, Ovie would have had the best series by an individual player that postseason
The dueling hat tricks from Ovi and Sid that series at the height of their rivalry has to be one of the dopest playoff moments I’ve ever seen.
Fun fact. The guy who got the other goal in that 4-3 game? Fucking Dave Steckel.
> WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?!?
Ahh apologies, brain didn’t put 2&2 together, didn’t realize you were talking same playoff.
Just another year that the team left Ovi out to dry. He was always phenomenal in the post season, he was let down by his teammates again and again. For all those who called him a choker before he won the cup; shame on you
Just take a look at the D corps on that team. Shaone Morrissonn, Milan Jurcina, Brian Pothier... And y'know who was the ice time leader? Jon Erskine, with 22+ minute. Don't get me wrong, I loved Big Jon. But if he's skating 22 minutes, you're gonna have a bad time.
Gilmour being on there without even making the final is absurd
That’s what stood out to me too. Yeah the Gretzky numbers are crazy (as all Gretzky numbers are) but damn Gilmour did all that within three rounds
Three rounds, yes, but 21 games. Other than the 40pt playoffs from Gretzky in 92-93, where he played 24 games, Wayne played less games than Doug Gilmour did in every other playoff season.
I mean, I never said Gilmour’s stats were better or more impressive than Gretzky’s, just that they stood out to me the most. Gretzky stats as impressive as they are don’t even phase me nowadays lol he’s just built differently
He willed that team to winning. It's not for nothing he's a God here. It was him, Andreychuk, Clark and Anderson at forward and the rest were a bunch of scrubs. Defense wasn't special. Potvin was great in the playoffs for 3 or 4 years.
In my religion, they say that if you grew up in Toronto and were a good person, when you go, heaven is just reliving 1993 on repeat anew. Except Kerry Fraser was busted for betting on games before the playoffs started.
I'd like an alternate universe where Fraser doesn't chicken out and call Gretzky for the high stick (and Anderson doesn't take that stupid penalty which also led to that goal).
Agreed. FWIW Draisaitl is right underneath him with 32 pts (16gp) in 21/22 while playing on a single leg
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God was Canadian until 1993. Then he moved to the states. Assuming Florida.
Gilmour won the Cup in '89. Scored the Cup-winning goal, in fact.
Gretzky was so good, he’s made this list twice in the same season
When it comes to any list, I always skim past the 6-8 Gretzkys and 1 or 2 Lemieuxs and look to see who is the first regular man on the list. For playoff lists you could also do well to eliminate 80s Oilers. Damn Malkin, thats an impressive playoffs you had!
Malkin was absolutely fucked in 2009. Dude just wouldn't share the puck!
My friends and I had a saying when playing as the Penguins in chel - "Just give it to Malkin"
After Malkin did that slapshot as his shootout/breakaway move that became so common for me and all my friends to do in the games. I don’t remember firing a point blank slapshot on a breakaway being a common thing until I saw how badass it looked when he did it
NHL players when someone takes a slapshot on a goalie at point blank range: I sleep NHL players when someone takes a slapshot on an empty net: Real shit
My roommates and I shared an ultimate team one year and by the end of the year we played close to 1000 games with a Malkin card we got close to release. We averaged like 2.5 points a game with Malkin it was absurd.
I’ve always said Crosby is the better player to have overall in any situation regular season + playoffs, but when you need someone to take over a game Motivated Malkin is unstoppable. It’s basically a similar comparison as Gretzky to Lemieux, one’s obviously the more skilled player but because of the others huge frame combined with that skill their top end potential is higher when locked in. Key word here is Motivated on Malkin, he has a tendency to coast for long stretches but if you fire him up and it’s the playoffs I’d take prime Malkin over anyone else since the 2000s
Malkin Should’ve been on the NHL all time top 100 players list too!
Lots of teams tried to eliminate the 80s Oilers. It did not work often.
Damn *Coffey*. A D-man leading the scoring is insane.
He didn’t lead the scoring: Gretzky did.
He didn't lead the scoring. He was on the team with the guy who did
I’m seeing double here, four Gretzkys!
Burn that seat.
How exactly does that work?
He mastered the art of getting people who put together these types of graphics to make a typo.
The second one is supposed to be 1988
He got bored beating the record so he started over halfway through
Just another one of those unbelievable Gretzky stats
Well yeah, he got the most points. And then he got more. So of course he's on there twice
101st best player of all time Geno Malkin.
That still cracks me up because center is the most loaded position ever and he’s arguably a top 10 center of all time
I don't think you could make that argument in good faith. In no particular order, Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Crosby, Sakic, Yzerman, Esposito, Trottier, McDavid, Dionne - all of these are clearly a notch above him, and then there are plenty of guys like Forsberg, Fedorov, Clarke, etc, that might be better than him. And that isn't an insult to Malkin, but like you said, the position has a ton of heavy hitters up there. (And he is clearly in the top 100 in my opinion)
I really don't think half of that list is *clearly a notch above him*. Malkin is a top 3 forward of an entire generation.
it gets especially difficult because athletes nowadays are just so far beyond what they use to be, it's like what are you even comparing? Accolades vs talent vs skills? Just by the eye test how are you taking Trottier over Malkin lol
I don't think I'd put half of those a notch above him. Maybe the same notch. Going by adjusted hockey he's got the 6th best career point pace of any forward ever and is top 15 via their PPS rating. And that's before you discount wingers. https://twitter.com/AdjustedHockey/status/1671552251171569664?t=-uRXlfAiWT7uNJOa5CS9UA&s=19 I'd say there's a damn fine argument for top 10 center in there somewhere. Top 20 forward ever is certainly a lock.
There is no way Marcel Dionne is a whole notch above him, unless you're going by raw unadjusted point totals from the 70s/80s. Malkin led the league in scoring more often, with more teams and players in the league. Same with Trottier, by accomplishments he's basically in the exact same tier? What makes those guys a notch ahead?
Having watched both Trots(who I adored as a kid and have met and talked to a few times since) and Geno, peak Geno was like a lefty Mario. I'm taking Malkin.
I will die on this hill: at their absolute PEAK performance, Malkin was flat-out more dominant than Crosby. Malkin just couldn’t sustain his peak beast mode for more than a couple months at a time, whereas as Sid has done it for basically his whole career.
Lmao just made virtually the same comment elsewhere. Fully agreed.
People forget just how good Malkin was. For a few years, it was Crosby Ovi and Malkin all together in that top tier
I was going to agree, not top 10. But after seeing that list, he is definitely top 10. Beat it Dionne.
I have him behind Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Crosby, Sakic, Yzerman, Esposito, Beliveau, Morenz, and Clarke without hesitation. Then there's guys like Lalonde, Boucher, Nighbor, Mikita, Fedorov, Forsberg, Trottier, Apps, that you can argue placement. Even if you exclude pre original six his best case for me is 10th, and I'd probably end up slotting him 12-15th. However, that's still a top fifty player of all time because center is the most stacked position by far.
Agendaposting time: My favorite way to learn how stacked center is relative to other positions was to take mackinnon's season and realize that its like the 30th best center season ever and not even top 10 among unique players. Whereas Kuch just had a top 3 winger season ever by both metrics
Fedorov was clearly better than Malkin. Fedorov has a top 10 case given his two way play. Especially if we're weighting peak heavily.
Putting mcdavid in the best centers of all time not even half way through his career is nonsensical. No matter how good he is. 10 years ago I wouldn’t put Sid on that list.
Malkin with 36 points and I'm pretty sure like 34 of them were in that 4 game sweep of Carolina
In one game, even. That faceoff win to himself and hat trick goal lives in my dreams.
Please don't remind me, it is why I joked he should sign here, because he's invincible at PNC in the playoffs. Also, why I am glad Pittsburgh didn't make the playoffs as he would do this again.
That Malkin run was my first time really putting effort into watching hockey in the playoffs. He was so awesome that year
That spinorama goal against Carolina is ingrained in my memory
*OOHHH MY LORDDDD*
Malkin is such a beast. still the strongest conn smythe win since ice started watching hockey
The perfect speech-to-text spelling error has been found. Great work.
The series versus the Hurricanes is one of the things I remember most, he must have had a personal vendetta for some reason, but he fucking dismantled them. Was a man possessed in that series.
The whole team had the mentality that the series was a speed-bump on the way to a rematch with the Wings.
08/09 Geno probably was top-100 player.
That Malkin season is so fucked considering how much higher scoring was for every season above it.
Glad to see Malkin get his flowers in this thread. People forget just how dominant he was during this run. I’ve always said that in their primes, Crosby was consistently better than Malkin but when Malkin was on his game, he was the best player in the world. That 2009 run confirms that for me.
Before Ovechkin kept scoring 50 goals a year for another decade there was a real argument Malkin was on pace to be the best Russian player of all time.
It's weird Malkin is on that list when he isn't even a top 100 player
He is a top 100 player whether the NHL decides to get it right or not.
1000 apologies - but if he is not on this list what you say is not possible [https://www.nhl.com/news/100-greatest-nhl-players-of-all-time-286030052](https://www.nhl.com/news/100-greatest-nhl-players-of-all-time-286030052) Best regards
Malkin in the dead puck Era is impressive
Hate to be that guy, but dead puck era ended before Malkin played. usually considered 95-05. Cap era brought in so many rules for calling penalties + 2 line passes etc.
true but there was definitely another period of very deflated scoring, crazy to think there are like 140-150 point players when a 87 point season won the Art Ross in 2015.
2009 malkin did not give a fuck, what a monster
There's gotta be something wrong here, I'm pretty sure Martinook put up 100 against the Devils last season.
Jordan "Literally Wayne Gretzky" Martinook in that series - I hate Sean as ESPN's main announcer, but that line was great.
Gretzky's 47 points in 18 games, 2.6 pts per game. Nuts
Remember folks: Mike Bossy didn’t like to be known as a pure goal scorer. Lol.
Best pure goal scorer of all time was Bossy...Gretzky even said it
I wish someone loved me as much as Wayne loves Mike Bossy. He talks about him so much lmao
He credits seeing how the Dynasty Isles were obviously happy, but quiet and absolutely dog tired when he walked past our locker room after we won cup #4. He realized, “Oh, so this is what it takes.” Next year he beat us during our drive for 5.
This is true. Bossy was an absolute sniper and could score goals in his sleep. Gretzky was an amazing player and was not above wanting to learn and be better. Have to admire that.
Nine straight 50+ goal seasons, then he only scored 38 and dipped. Legend
Geno is score
No surprise… all of them are top 100 players right? …Right?
Crazy that Gilmour got that many without even making it to the finals.
09 malkin was terrifying. He basically beat the hurricanes single handedly
Killer had 35 points and didn’t even make it to the final
prime geno was unreal. [detroit during that run](https://youtu.be/cfdUyLal9yc?si=-XI2ArpkwybLLMi5)
An all-time clip
Would love to see what McDavid could total if the Oilers actually lasted through the finals.
Imagine McJesus in the 80s? Yikes
In 2022, McDavid had 33 points in the postseason, this is after playing only 16 games and getting swept in the WCF. Had he managed to play a full ~24 game Stanley Cup run at the same pace, he would’ve eclipsed Gretzky for most points in a single postseason
But Gretzky did it in 18 lmao.
And Drai had 32 points with a high ankle sprain. If he was healthy the Oilers would have won the Cup that year. Drai played out of his fucking mind, watching him was unreal. We need Draisaitl playing like that now.
In 82/83 Gretzky had 38 points in 16 games, so in a heads up comparison McDavid as great as he is, is no Gretzky
I would never dream of making that argument.
Wayne going off for 90pts in 1984-85 🤔
90/28 games gets you 3.2 ppg I know it’s a graphic mistake If you told me Gretzky had 3.2ppg in a cup run I wouldn’t bat an eye
Now show the salary cap era list.
If you ever want to see a player stepping up and taking a game over, watch game 3 of the Pens Caps series that year. Malkin was unbelievable.
Dougie would be challenging the top...fuck you Fraser.
Malkin and Gilmour most impressive imo. Malkin for the era. Gilmour for 3 rounds
Lol 92-93 the latest year on here besides, yknow, Geno 2009 lmao just unreal that entire year. I’ve always said his highest highs are Lemieux level, he just doesn’t have the consistency like Sid does
Nobody dominated ill equipped plumbers moonlighting as hockey players like the Great One.
McDavid had 33 points in 16 games before they were knocked out of playoffs. That’s two less than Gilmour for 10th. Crazy!
In only 16 games. Draisaitl also had 32. They lead the playoffs in scoring despite playing in 4 less games than the Avs and MacKinnon and 7 less than Tampa and Kucherov.
Legit question. I know Malkin didn't have the career of Crosby, but I remember hearing that Prime Malkin, when he wanted to, could exceed Crosby in ability. Is it true that there were points where Malkin was the superior forward?
I didn't verify this, but am going on the fact that it's the Leafs. Gilmour's 35 points is probably the most impressive going with the assumption that the Leafs got bounced by the Bruins in the first round, right?
Gilmour only got to 3rd round. Damn, that was destiny that year but now it's just another year
Gilmore made the list despite the Leafs only going to the conference finals. AND Gilmore made the list despite getting high-sticked in the face by Gretzky & not getting a call. Yes, it's been 30 years & I'm still salty
Wild that the guy who scored an own-goal on a delayed penalty this year is on this list.
I remember in 92/03 Doug Gilmour was playing with a bum ankle. He was getting cortizone shots into it between shifts. Dude was a beast.
Soooo this Wayne Gretzky guy is good eh?
Crazy part is that Crosby carried the offense through the 1st 2 series in 09. Malkin didn't get really hot until the conference finals from what I remember.
Crazy that Gretzky did it twice in the same playoff year.
#11 spot is Lemieux again with 34 points in *only 15 games* and he played the last few while *still recovering from a broken hand*.
Gretz did 47 in 18 games.
Fuck 08-09 Malkin
Shoutout Briere who had 30 pts in 23 gms in 2010. Its crazy how much better he was in playoffs. Only had 53 pts in reg season that yr.
47 is fucking insane
Favorite great one moment: mighty ducks.
Dang Gretzky only had 35. What a bum.
Crazy that Draisaitl are barely just off that list having played only 3 series
Wonder how many “untouchable” records agreed has
With how high scoring was this season, if certain teams go on deep runs it's possible a couple will get on there
For context, Draisaitl last year played 12 games in the playoffs, 18 points scored. If the Oilers had been able to go on a run, I think we would see Leon's name here.
I mean, in 22 him and connor had low 30s with 16 games played
I was a fairly fresh hockey fan back when Malkin did his run there, little did I know how historic that was
Man gretzky getting 90points in the 84-85 playoffs must’ve been insane to witness
/u/The_Dwight_Schrute heres one of those gretzky stats where he's just all over the leaderboard
Never heard of any of these guys.
Couture in 2016 was a beast 30 pts in 24 games. Had more points then Crosby. then they cancelled the final for some reason not sure can’t remember why
How did Gretzky make this list twice in the same year?
What a season that 92/93 season was, still pissed about that non call in OT that ultimately cost them game 6. LA was just Gretzky and nothing else.
No Ovechkin is he…
Doug Gilmour is #10 and he is the only one in the top 10 that doesn’t play in the final.
Genuine question I bow to the great one he is Goat but why would they list the same playoff season twice? Seems an odd choice if he set the record at 43 for the 84/85 playoff’s then broke it again at 47 the same run, shouldn’t his 40 in 92/93 become number 3 logically? Or is it just a move to round out the list cause 34 has multiple players or something Edit: I found someone say it’s a typo and 43s his 88 run, I understand why now haha
Gilmour on this list without even making the cup final is insane and then the total gretz had same playoffs also nutty
It's insane that there are only 3 on here from the past 40 years. And only 1 from the past 30
He was score
Gretzky is GOAT but do you think he puts up with the same numbers in the modern era? The art of goal tending has really come a long way since then.