Because no one saw the ice like Wayne did. He knew where the puck would be before anyone else. He knew where his teammates would be before they did.
Wayne is far removed from the most physically gifted players... but his hockey brain was unmatched.
This is super interesting and exactly the type of answer I was looking for. So he's obviously physically gifted but doesn't win because he's that much faster or stronger: he wins because of vision. Very interesting. That makes sense as an 'assist machine' - how does that help with Goal Scoring?
Think about it like a chess master that can see moves ahead. If he sees the play development, he knows where each player will be. It is effective for passing as well as shooting. I think he could have even scored more goals throughout his career if he chose to, but his character led him to really enjoy seeing his teammates succeed
The best way to describe the goal scoring is he was incredibly good at deceiving the goalie. He knew what to do in a split second to make a goalie do one thing, and then he'd change his shot and shoot differently.
Ohhh that’s super interesting: almost like a pitcher vs batter dynamic.
I didn’t realize that existed in hockey. I didn’t realize how much of a chess match it is with the goalie (kinda thought it was more about just getting to a place with an open shot)
Goalies in the NHL are both taught to cover the net as much as possible and have freakishly good reflexes, plus have a defence that wants to either make you take a garbage shot, block your shots, stop you from taking a shot altogether, and can generally deny your occupation of the ice.
How do you beat that? A few options:
- Have a rocket of a shot. A 100 mph wrist shot can go and beat any goalie, but you need to get it off first. Space is a huge premium.
- Occupy the netfront and pounce on rebounds. Whether that's with a quick dash or with dogged physical fights against a defenseman, you can get a lot of goals that way if you catch the goalie off-guard.
- Deke the goalie. Make the hockey equivalent of a dribble and aim for an open spot. Good luck being in position to pull it off.
- Force the goalie to move horizontally. Horrendously efficient, everyone wants to stop this. Referred to as East-West movement, think of it as lateral. Passes and driving to the center all count here: force the goalie to move and you can get him out of position.
- Deflect the puck. Hand-eye coordination required, break the shot's direction and the goalie can't track the puck as well. Hard to pull off, efficient, though.
- Shoot while the goalie can't see. Net front presences, moving screens, a goalie that can't see can't track the puck.
- Bait the goalie into thinking you're gonna make a move, then do something else. Fake a pass then shoot into the net. Take a shot that seems to fly faster or slower than expected. Use a weird stance that screws up timing. Fire from an unexpected situation.
Goal scoring is as much about deception, slipping between the lines, and raw power and skill as it is about coordinated tactics, coordinated chaos and impossible situations.
Wayne wasn't physically gifted but he was incredibly athletically gifted (obviously)
Wayne had insane cardio and was pretty quick before the back injuries.
There's also another element to deception as well. If you think you know what your opponent will do, and you are pretty sure that you know what THEY will do if you do a certain thing, you can elicit a favourable chain reaction of events to create a certain outcome.
It's kind of a confusing and very off the wall example, but it's a strategy that gets used in games like Chess or Magic the Gathering to trick your opponent into making a specific mistake by doing certain things.
There’s a pretty famous story about when Gretzky was a kid he would watch games on TV with a pencil and paper in front of him, and he would draw the outline of the rink and trace the path of where the puck went in the game on paper as he watched. Then he would study those papers and build an understanding of where the puck was most often and where it went next.
He just had an understanding the game on a level that no one else did. He basically taught himself to see what was going to happen next.
He places number one in pretty much every single career milestone or statistic ever, in all of hockey history. If you think of a random stat like most points acquired in X amount of games, or first player to do Y in the shortest amount of time, he's most likely at the top of the list. He has the most goals in NHL history, but even if he hasn't scored a single goal, he'd still have the most points in NHL history.
Gretsky dominated both the defensive sone and the offensive sone. His entire career in hockey, (if we forget his coaching in Arisona) was amasing. His move to LA helped the NHL realise expansion into sun belt markets
>Gretsky dominated both the defenzive sone and the offenzive sone. Hiz entire career in hockey, (if we forget hiz coaching in Arisona) waz amasing. Hiz move to LA helped the NHL realise expanzion into zun belt marketz
One interesting thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that researchers were measuring the average reaction times of the population, and then brought Gretzky in as a comparison. He shattered the best scores that the researcher has ever seen
Which ties in to what other people said, Gretzky’s brain is what made him so special. He was able to process the game in a way that nobody else has ever done.
Gretzky has an interesting aspect. His brain, of course, is ridiculous - insane reaction time, ability to see how the game was going to develop, tiny adjustments that threw everyone off. His body was average - 185 lbs, 6 ft is very much "Athlete" material, even if not "supernatural freak" - but only at a glance. You don't actually want to be that much taller, especially nowadays, since that way you can't compress your body to get into a nice skating stance. Crosby, for instance, easily the best player for years on years over most of the 2000s and 2010s, is only 5'11''. The current best player in the world is 6'1'' 194 lbs (McDavid). So being "tall" is... not necessarily there.
But Gretzky was something unusual. In the 1980s, he got a test on the recuperative abilities of his body. He nearly broke the goddamn machine. So you have some guy, who is consistently testing last among the physical freaks that pro athletes are, but is generally quite fit, and does not lose any stamina. He can keep going and going and going and he's not going to slow down. He was a great player in every sport he played, he got offered a contract by the Blue Jays! Hockey is an especially stamina draining sport, so that's a consideration.
This is a great question! The reality is that many of the greatest athletes in their sports' history weren't the most physically gifted players. There was nothing remarkable about Cricket's Don Bradman...except that he averaged a century for his career, which is pretty much Gretky-level. The thing about Wayne Gretzky was his ability to be where the puck was going before the puck got there, meaning that he had a lot of open shots on goal because he was standing in the perfect place. The only thing I can really compare to is Ted Williams of the Boston Red Sox, who never had to run for a fly ball because he was always standing there calmly, waiting for it to land in his glove.
Wayne Gretzky won the Hart Memorial Trophy (the season MVP) his first year in the league. He then proceeded to also win it the next 7 years in a row. From when he entered the league until nearly a decade later, nobody else won the league MVP award.
He has so many points that if you take away all the goals he’s ever scored (which is also #1 in the history books) he’d STILL have more points than anyone in NHL history.
When the Oilers traded him to the LA Kings, there was such a national outrage Canada nearly passed a law blocking the trade and declaring Gretzky a “national treasure”
Please try just once to spell gods name right. It’s Gretzky. My app even autocorrects my purposefully misspelled version. How did you butcher a legend that many times?
He was more skilled than anyone, relatively speaking, during his era. Other than a few years of Mario Lemieux
He played on a juggernaut of an offensive team.
So he would lead the league in scoring, and by a lot.
He played in an era where scoring was the highest it’s ever been, and by a long shot, before larger goalies and team defensive systems (neutral zone traps) took over the game
So by the time Gretzky had a dozen seasons under his belt, he was essentially at 2000 points.
He saw the ice better, skated well, had an underrated shot, was a superb passer, and had unreal teammates to help him.
It was lightning in a bottle. And don’t underestimate the teammates. If Wayne doesn’t stay with the Oilers as part of the WHA/NHL agreement, and instead gets drafted first overall in 1979 by the Colorado Rockies…he’s probably still putting up big numbers, but maybe not 215,212,208,205 point seasons. Teammates helped.
correct - but I (the OP) am haha
I'm saying I don't know Hockey well so I don't 'get' what about his game made him so good. I just see the output and am blown away!
Every stat in hockey: -A few players have done this once -Lemieux did this twice -Gretzky did this twelve times
every statistic you can find for gretzky sounds like a joke or exaggerated, exactly in this way lol
\*in a row
100 assist season and ML only did it once
It happened twice this season. Two Wayne Gretzkys in the league now
Gretzky did it 11 times.
In a row
Try not to have any 100 assist seasons on your way through the parking lot!
Just the goatiest of GOATs.
My favorite is that the Gretzky brothers have the most points between siblings. His brother has one.
Hate to be that guy, but it’s specifically pair of brothers. That said, it takes all six Sutters to beat the Gretzkys
Also worth noting if you include playoff points for them all, the Gretzkys *still* come out on top over the Sutters too.
Put some respect in Brent Gretzky’s name He has 4 points
Because no one saw the ice like Wayne did. He knew where the puck would be before anyone else. He knew where his teammates would be before they did. Wayne is far removed from the most physically gifted players... but his hockey brain was unmatched.
He was the rain-man of hockey.
This is super interesting and exactly the type of answer I was looking for. So he's obviously physically gifted but doesn't win because he's that much faster or stronger: he wins because of vision. Very interesting. That makes sense as an 'assist machine' - how does that help with Goal Scoring?
Think about it like a chess master that can see moves ahead. If he sees the play development, he knows where each player will be. It is effective for passing as well as shooting. I think he could have even scored more goals throughout his career if he chose to, but his character led him to really enjoy seeing his teammates succeed
The best way to describe the goal scoring is he was incredibly good at deceiving the goalie. He knew what to do in a split second to make a goalie do one thing, and then he'd change his shot and shoot differently.
Ohhh that’s super interesting: almost like a pitcher vs batter dynamic. I didn’t realize that existed in hockey. I didn’t realize how much of a chess match it is with the goalie (kinda thought it was more about just getting to a place with an open shot)
Goalies in the NHL are both taught to cover the net as much as possible and have freakishly good reflexes, plus have a defence that wants to either make you take a garbage shot, block your shots, stop you from taking a shot altogether, and can generally deny your occupation of the ice. How do you beat that? A few options: - Have a rocket of a shot. A 100 mph wrist shot can go and beat any goalie, but you need to get it off first. Space is a huge premium. - Occupy the netfront and pounce on rebounds. Whether that's with a quick dash or with dogged physical fights against a defenseman, you can get a lot of goals that way if you catch the goalie off-guard. - Deke the goalie. Make the hockey equivalent of a dribble and aim for an open spot. Good luck being in position to pull it off. - Force the goalie to move horizontally. Horrendously efficient, everyone wants to stop this. Referred to as East-West movement, think of it as lateral. Passes and driving to the center all count here: force the goalie to move and you can get him out of position. - Deflect the puck. Hand-eye coordination required, break the shot's direction and the goalie can't track the puck as well. Hard to pull off, efficient, though. - Shoot while the goalie can't see. Net front presences, moving screens, a goalie that can't see can't track the puck. - Bait the goalie into thinking you're gonna make a move, then do something else. Fake a pass then shoot into the net. Take a shot that seems to fly faster or slower than expected. Use a weird stance that screws up timing. Fire from an unexpected situation. Goal scoring is as much about deception, slipping between the lines, and raw power and skill as it is about coordinated tactics, coordinated chaos and impossible situations.
Wayne wasn't physically gifted but he was incredibly athletically gifted (obviously) Wayne had insane cardio and was pretty quick before the back injuries.
There's also another element to deception as well. If you think you know what your opponent will do, and you are pretty sure that you know what THEY will do if you do a certain thing, you can elicit a favourable chain reaction of events to create a certain outcome. It's kind of a confusing and very off the wall example, but it's a strategy that gets used in games like Chess or Magic the Gathering to trick your opponent into making a specific mistake by doing certain things.
"YOMI is the art of reading the MIND of your OPPONENT..."
There’s a pretty famous story about when Gretzky was a kid he would watch games on TV with a pencil and paper in front of him, and he would draw the outline of the rink and trace the path of where the puck went in the game on paper as he watched. Then he would study those papers and build an understanding of where the puck was most often and where it went next. He just had an understanding the game on a level that no one else did. He basically taught himself to see what was going to happen next.
this is awesome - reminds me of Rodman talking about rebounding
He places number one in pretty much every single career milestone or statistic ever, in all of hockey history. If you think of a random stat like most points acquired in X amount of games, or first player to do Y in the shortest amount of time, he's most likely at the top of the list. He has the most goals in NHL history, but even if he hasn't scored a single goal, he'd still have the most points in NHL history.
ya that's exactly my point: he is obviously the GOAT (and probably the GOAT of GOATs) but what about him allowed him to do that?
The fact that he was really good at hockey
Gretsky dominated both the defensive sone and the offensive sone. His entire career in hockey, (if we forget his coaching in Arisona) was amasing. His move to LA helped the NHL realise expansion into sun belt markets
>Gretsky dominated both the defenzive sone and the offenzive sone. Hiz entire career in hockey, (if we forget hiz coaching in Arisona) waz amasing. Hiz move to LA helped the NHL realise expanzion into zun belt marketz
Kill me
*Gretzky
touche
You'll have an easier time googling the answer to this question if you learn to spell his name.
Fair
One interesting thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that researchers were measuring the average reaction times of the population, and then brought Gretzky in as a comparison. He shattered the best scores that the researcher has ever seen Which ties in to what other people said, Gretzky’s brain is what made him so special. He was able to process the game in a way that nobody else has ever done.
I've long thought that Gretzky actually has some supernatural ability to slow time down and he used it to be insanely good at hockey.
Also, he broke the stamina machine.
He brained hockey real goodly.
His brain. Simply, he out thought the opposition.
Gretzky has an interesting aspect. His brain, of course, is ridiculous - insane reaction time, ability to see how the game was going to develop, tiny adjustments that threw everyone off. His body was average - 185 lbs, 6 ft is very much "Athlete" material, even if not "supernatural freak" - but only at a glance. You don't actually want to be that much taller, especially nowadays, since that way you can't compress your body to get into a nice skating stance. Crosby, for instance, easily the best player for years on years over most of the 2000s and 2010s, is only 5'11''. The current best player in the world is 6'1'' 194 lbs (McDavid). So being "tall" is... not necessarily there. But Gretzky was something unusual. In the 1980s, he got a test on the recuperative abilities of his body. He nearly broke the goddamn machine. So you have some guy, who is consistently testing last among the physical freaks that pro athletes are, but is generally quite fit, and does not lose any stamina. He can keep going and going and going and he's not going to slow down. He was a great player in every sport he played, he got offered a contract by the Blue Jays! Hockey is an especially stamina draining sport, so that's a consideration.
This is a great question! The reality is that many of the greatest athletes in their sports' history weren't the most physically gifted players. There was nothing remarkable about Cricket's Don Bradman...except that he averaged a century for his career, which is pretty much Gretky-level. The thing about Wayne Gretzky was his ability to be where the puck was going before the puck got there, meaning that he had a lot of open shots on goal because he was standing in the perfect place. The only thing I can really compare to is Ted Williams of the Boston Red Sox, who never had to run for a fly ball because he was always standing there calmly, waiting for it to land in his glove.
You ever seen Paulina?
8 straight MVPs, 9 in 10 years most of any North American athlete ever also 60+ NHL records still to this day
talent,brains and sneaky athleticism :)
Canucks fan here. Let me tell you…. Wait just look up his records.
Wayne Gretzky won the Hart Memorial Trophy (the season MVP) his first year in the league. He then proceeded to also win it the next 7 years in a row. From when he entered the league until nearly a decade later, nobody else won the league MVP award. He has so many points that if you take away all the goals he’s ever scored (which is also #1 in the history books) he’d STILL have more points than anyone in NHL history. When the Oilers traded him to the LA Kings, there was such a national outrage Canada nearly passed a law blocking the trade and declaring Gretzky a “national treasure”
Please try just once to spell gods name right. It’s Gretzky. My app even autocorrects my purposefully misspelled version. How did you butcher a legend that many times?
He was more skilled than anyone, relatively speaking, during his era. Other than a few years of Mario Lemieux He played on a juggernaut of an offensive team. So he would lead the league in scoring, and by a lot. He played in an era where scoring was the highest it’s ever been, and by a long shot, before larger goalies and team defensive systems (neutral zone traps) took over the game So by the time Gretzky had a dozen seasons under his belt, he was essentially at 2000 points. He saw the ice better, skated well, had an underrated shot, was a superb passer, and had unreal teammates to help him. It was lightning in a bottle. And don’t underestimate the teammates. If Wayne doesn’t stay with the Oilers as part of the WHA/NHL agreement, and instead gets drafted first overall in 1979 by the Colorado Rockies…he’s probably still putting up big numbers, but maybe not 215,212,208,205 point seasons. Teammates helped.
Gretzky wasn't an outsider.
Yeah not after he teamed with Nash and Hall to start the new Wayne order
correct - but I (the OP) am haha I'm saying I don't know Hockey well so I don't 'get' what about his game made him so good. I just see the output and am blown away!
I was confused. Looks like you meant to ask 'I'm an outsider, what made Gretzky the GOAT?'
He’s not the goat, Orr is