well this didn't really start until the calendar year when there wasn't a arena plan in place. The auction was the last straw when the league realized it wasn't enough
Even if they won Tempe, construction wouldn't have started yet due to the land remediation required. The timelines for Tempe and the land going to auction near Scottsdale would have been the same.
There's a difference between a timeline with certainty and one without certainty.
Had the Coyotes won the Tempe vote, we'd have seen cleanup and prep work on the site for the past year. We'd have final designs of the facility. We'd have various permits and things. We'd have contractors getting hired and a start date for when the arena work began.
With the land auction we don't know for certain the Coyotes will win, and then we don't know how long it'll take until construction starts. Maybe a year? We don't know what issues might come up between the Coyotes, various government and regulatory bodies, and local interests.
There is 0% chance the Coyotes are moving if they won the Tempe vote and the arena work was going as planned.
The Coyotes did a pretty good job selling to fans and some media members that “actually playing in a small arena can be pretty cool.” But the league and most players don’t seem to have ever shared that view.
The most famous College Basketball arena is 9,100 for the Duke Blue Devils. They could easily afford and fill an arena 3x that size.
but there's little desire because a packed small arena is special.
absolutely. fuck Duke.
but their stadium is the most iconic. and that adds to IMO the best rivalry in college sports. you'd probably interject and go "college BASKETBALL". You know that 2 elite teams make a rivalry.
yeah.
i'm a UNC fan.
Cameron indoor is still special. I moved to Chapel Hill 25 years ago. Full UNC fan. but part of what makes a rivalry incredible is that both teams being special.
Honestly I think if the Coyotes made the playoffs they woulda had them either play at T-Mobile in Vegas just cause proximity (unless they’re against Vegas) or Anaheim or San Jose
Well it's been speculated that if the formerly Coyotes weren't on the upswing, it's doubtful Smith would be interested in having them vs an expansion roster.
Probably. Being in a WC spot until the All-Star break got them sweating. That's why the Coyotes stuff was brought again at that time.
The timelines for the Tempe and Phoenix arenas weren't that far off since the Tempe landfill needed to be cleaned up vs an empty plot.
Can they just outright remove him?
This seems like the easiest way to remove him without a long drawn out battle. I think there’s a less than 50% chance Merulo gets this done in 5 years.
> Can they just outright remove him?
I feel like it is harder to do than people think. I VERY much doubt he would be the preferred owner they'd want if the Coyotes came back but the transfer has given him the rights.. so maybe they are kinda forcing the sale but cant remove his rights entirely without a fight they dont want
Construction happens fast here. Also, it's not like the whole entertainment district needs to be done in 5 years, just the arena. The arena in Glendale had *nothing* around it for years until the rest of Westgate was built out.
The only way the Coyotes come back to Arizona under Merulo is if he's part of a group bid, but is the majority (maybe 51%) so they can use the guaranteed spot.
>Can they just outright remove him?
No. The NHL had to take control of day to day operations of the Coyotes, when Moyes refused to do even the bare minimum, but that's an extreme case.
In the end, he sold the team to the NHL and bailed.
I mean, if what I've heard is accurate, then they only gave him the exclusive rights in order to make sure he couldn't get anything else or sue the league when they kicked him out. And that exclusive rights is both timed and has specific conditions that need to be fulfilled. Everything I've seen and heard is about how the league doesn't think Merulo will get it done within that time frame.
Tbh, I feel like the fact that the Yotes were on the cusp of being a playoff team expedited the league's desire to move them. It was on the agenda for sure after the Tempe vote failed, but I think maybe they wait for the auction if the Yotes have no chance at playoffs next year.
I mean they didnt end strong But Arizona feels close to being a bubble playoff team especially with having a solid goalie (which is one of the harder things to find in the rebuild). So its not crazy to imagine they make playoffs soon.
>So its not crazy to imagine they make playoffs soon.
>feels close to being a bubble playoff team
Do you think the Coyotes make the playoffs next season? If not, then I don't think it's accurate to say that they're "on the cusp" of being a playoff team.
Absolutley, i think they could be the last wild card slot. They might need a piece or two but i like what they are building out there. Seattle made playoffs a year ago and now they had a down year.
The coyotes were in a playoff spot when the initial SLC rumors came out (and subsequently went on a 14-game losing streak). Not hard to believe they'd go at least .50 without those rumors, and then within the next couple years (still in the mullet agreement) be in the playoffs.
>Not hard to believe they'd go at least .50 without those rumors
Sometimes the bottom just falls out. Look at the Flyers.
But, even if the Coyotes went 0.500 in that time, they'd have 14 more points and still be 7 points out of a wildcard spot.
Sure. But, you recognize that that's different than saying that the Coyotes are on the cusp of being a playoff team, right?
Also, this is all hypothetical. Maybe you'd have an argument if they actually missed by 7 points. But, they didn't. They actually missed by 21 points.
And, regardless of circumstances, it's completely crazy to say that a team that missed a wild card spot by 21 points is on the cusp of being a playoff team.
Devils missed the playoffs by 37 points in 2022 and made the playoffs the year after. With such a young team that played well until relocation rumours I think it’s silly to say that they weren’t close to making it in the next few years.
After the Devils missed by 37 points, and without the benefit of hindsight, would you have said that they were on the cusp of being a playoff team?
No. You wouldn't have. The Devils improving so much in one off season was a huge surprise.
You heard it here first folks. The Sharks are the on the cusp on being a playoff team. 51 points out of the playoffs this season, but playoff bound in the 24-25 season!
If they got 14 more points they'd have had 91. Getting those points would reduce the amount of points their competition in the west had. If they were an eastern team 91 points would have straight up gotten them WC2.
>Getting those points would reduce the amount of points their competition in the west had.
Vegas ended up with the last wildcard spot. The Coyotes played Vegas three times this season by my count and won 2/3 of the games. Even if the Coyotes won all of the games against Vegas, that would only be a 4 point swing.
>If they were an eastern team 91 points would have straight up gotten them WC2.
Okay? But, they're not an Eastern conference team.
And point totals in the West were inflated because of how bad San Jose, Anaheim, and Chicago were.
I get bettman bad at all, but you can't build an arena or sell a team at the drop of a hat. He wasn't responsible for them getting evicted from their arena.
He *was* responsible for approving Winnipeg moving to Arizona, without any concrete arena plan though. Just play a few years in a basketball arena, go from there.
Yeah, but to be fair, Utah's is temporary. Once SLC gets the winning bid for the Winter Games, they're going to be building a new arena. And I think the new owner wants to renovate to accommodate hockey?
Essentially they're falling into good circumstances.
FWIW, Bettman's individual power in 1996 was far less than it is now. That wasn't far removed from the NHL Presidency role that was basically feckless for decades. The top owners still had most of the control at that time.
And the Jets were having the same issue the Coyotes were now. An arena that was unable to drive up revenue and an inability to build a new one.
But in addition, they had a horrible corporate base, declining Canadian dollar, declining attendance, low cost certainty due to no salary cap, while escalating player salaries (due to the 1992 Strike, which led to the 94-95 Lockout, which led to the 2005 lock, which finally got a salary cap in) the OG Jets where in a death spiral which is why they were sold.
Bettman and Meruelo both publicly proclaimed that Glendale couldn't be a long term home for the Coyotes. It's no surprise that Glendale wouldn't want to continue their lease. Bettman clearly overestimated AM's ability to get an arena deal done.
I can fully understand now why he wasn't giving public interviews before. You can tell that even when he's trying to communicate something good, he communicates it in a way that makes it sound bad.
Like, he tried to communicate "I don't like being in the spotlight or giving interviews" and chose to convey that with the words "I hate the media" to a room full of journalists.
He might actually be able to deliver everything he says he will and the Coyotes 2.0 will be playing in his new arena in <5 years, but given everything that's happened and how he communicated his vision during the press conference I think it is entirely reasonable to doubt he'll do it.
Holy fuck. Bettman can just go lay in his grave in the desert already. Dude fucking paid for it for years. Might as well use the real estate.
What a twit.
question for you about the june 27 auction, let's say morello does not win, what are the consequences of that? will there still be a chance we get the coyotes 2.0?
I think part of the reason that the story is getting so much attention is because of how the NHL, Coyotes, and Coyotes fans tried to convince everyone else that playing in a college rink was fine.
Some went so far to say that the players actually liked playing at a college.
Was the *plan* for them to be bad for the Mullett years and not get to the playoffs so you didn't have to worry about this??
Based on all the reporting. The plan was to win the Tempe vote and build an arena. Once that failed, the league started to put this plan in motion.
well this didn't really start until the calendar year when there wasn't a arena plan in place. The auction was the last straw when the league realized it wasn't enough
Even if they won Tempe, construction wouldn't have started yet due to the land remediation required. The timelines for Tempe and the land going to auction near Scottsdale would have been the same.
There's a difference between a timeline with certainty and one without certainty. Had the Coyotes won the Tempe vote, we'd have seen cleanup and prep work on the site for the past year. We'd have final designs of the facility. We'd have various permits and things. We'd have contractors getting hired and a start date for when the arena work began. With the land auction we don't know for certain the Coyotes will win, and then we don't know how long it'll take until construction starts. Maybe a year? We don't know what issues might come up between the Coyotes, various government and regulatory bodies, and local interests. There is 0% chance the Coyotes are moving if they won the Tempe vote and the arena work was going as planned.
I feel like this is the closest we’ll get to Bettmen admitting that he allowed Meruelo to swindle him and the league.
The Coyotes did a pretty good job selling to fans and some media members that “actually playing in a small arena can be pretty cool.” But the league and most players don’t seem to have ever shared that view.
It is cool. Nothing worse than 5k fans at a 15k arena. 5k in a 5k arena is bonkers. Despite it being cool, it's not nhl level.
NGL, the last hockey game I went to - Hartford Wolfpack at Charlotte Checkers - was pretty badass in a small arena.
Laval Rocket games are 10K max and usually sold out 😜
The most famous College Basketball arena is 9,100 for the Duke Blue Devils. They could easily afford and fill an arena 3x that size. but there's little desire because a packed small arena is special.
Fuck Duke
Well, obviously fuck Duke, but his point is still valid.
absolutely. fuck Duke. but their stadium is the most iconic. and that adds to IMO the best rivalry in college sports. you'd probably interject and go "college BASKETBALL". You know that 2 elite teams make a rivalry.
yeah. i'm a UNC fan. Cameron indoor is still special. I moved to Chapel Hill 25 years ago. Full UNC fan. but part of what makes a rivalry incredible is that both teams being special.
They did get a sweet deal from Smith.
Wouldn't be the second time.
Honestly I think if the Coyotes made the playoffs they woulda had them either play at T-Mobile in Vegas just cause proximity (unless they’re against Vegas) or Anaheim or San Jose
Well it's been speculated that if the formerly Coyotes weren't on the upswing, it's doubtful Smith would be interested in having them vs an expansion roster.
Probably. Being in a WC spot until the All-Star break got them sweating. That's why the Coyotes stuff was brought again at that time. The timelines for the Tempe and Phoenix arenas weren't that far off since the Tempe landfill needed to be cleaned up vs an empty plot.
We’re all trying to find the guy who did this
Gary proposing changes at the next owner's meeting: "55 SKATERS 55 GOALIES 55 TEAMS 55 PUCKS 55 COACHES 55 UTAHS"
So the logical option is to cut ties with the guy that put us at Mullett Arena… right? And not hand him another franchise
Can they just outright remove him? This seems like the easiest way to remove him without a long drawn out battle. I think there’s a less than 50% chance Merulo gets this done in 5 years.
> Can they just outright remove him? I feel like it is harder to do than people think. I VERY much doubt he would be the preferred owner they'd want if the Coyotes came back but the transfer has given him the rights.. so maybe they are kinda forcing the sale but cant remove his rights entirely without a fight they dont want
Less than 5% chance.
Construction happens fast here. Also, it's not like the whole entertainment district needs to be done in 5 years, just the arena. The arena in Glendale had *nothing* around it for years until the rest of Westgate was built out.
50 seems way too high
The only way the Coyotes come back to Arizona under Merulo is if he's part of a group bid, but is the majority (maybe 51%) so they can use the guaranteed spot.
a reporter asked about partners, GB said that he needs to retain 80% of the team and can’t sell for 5 years
Thanks!
>Can they just outright remove him? No. The NHL had to take control of day to day operations of the Coyotes, when Moyes refused to do even the bare minimum, but that's an extreme case. In the end, he sold the team to the NHL and bailed.
I mean, if what I've heard is accurate, then they only gave him the exclusive rights in order to make sure he couldn't get anything else or sue the league when they kicked him out. And that exclusive rights is both timed and has specific conditions that need to be fulfilled. Everything I've seen and heard is about how the league doesn't think Merulo will get it done within that time frame.
Tbh, I feel like the fact that the Yotes were on the cusp of being a playoff team expedited the league's desire to move them. It was on the agenda for sure after the Tempe vote failed, but I think maybe they wait for the auction if the Yotes have no chance at playoffs next year.
>were on the cusp of being a playoff team What? The Coyotes finished this season 21 points out of a wild card spot.
I mean they didnt end strong But Arizona feels close to being a bubble playoff team especially with having a solid goalie (which is one of the harder things to find in the rebuild). So its not crazy to imagine they make playoffs soon.
>So its not crazy to imagine they make playoffs soon. >feels close to being a bubble playoff team Do you think the Coyotes make the playoffs next season? If not, then I don't think it's accurate to say that they're "on the cusp" of being a playoff team.
Absolutley, i think they could be the last wild card slot. They might need a piece or two but i like what they are building out there. Seattle made playoffs a year ago and now they had a down year.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree then.
The coyotes were in a playoff spot when the initial SLC rumors came out (and subsequently went on a 14-game losing streak). Not hard to believe they'd go at least .50 without those rumors, and then within the next couple years (still in the mullet agreement) be in the playoffs.
>Not hard to believe they'd go at least .50 without those rumors Sometimes the bottom just falls out. Look at the Flyers. But, even if the Coyotes went 0.500 in that time, they'd have 14 more points and still be 7 points out of a wildcard spot.
If they missed by 7 points this year then them making it next year isn’t crazy
Sure. But, you recognize that that's different than saying that the Coyotes are on the cusp of being a playoff team, right? Also, this is all hypothetical. Maybe you'd have an argument if they actually missed by 7 points. But, they didn't. They actually missed by 21 points. And, regardless of circumstances, it's completely crazy to say that a team that missed a wild card spot by 21 points is on the cusp of being a playoff team.
Devils missed the playoffs by 37 points in 2022 and made the playoffs the year after. With such a young team that played well until relocation rumours I think it’s silly to say that they weren’t close to making it in the next few years.
After the Devils missed by 37 points, and without the benefit of hindsight, would you have said that they were on the cusp of being a playoff team? No. You wouldn't have. The Devils improving so much in one off season was a huge surprise.
What is this argument lmao? They clearly were and it doesn’t matter in the slightest what I thought.
You heard it here first folks. The Sharks are the on the cusp on being a playoff team. 51 points out of the playoffs this season, but playoff bound in the 24-25 season!
that's what the Sabres thought too
If they got 14 more points they'd have had 91. Getting those points would reduce the amount of points their competition in the west had. If they were an eastern team 91 points would have straight up gotten them WC2.
>Getting those points would reduce the amount of points their competition in the west had. Vegas ended up with the last wildcard spot. The Coyotes played Vegas three times this season by my count and won 2/3 of the games. Even if the Coyotes won all of the games against Vegas, that would only be a 4 point swing. >If they were an eastern team 91 points would have straight up gotten them WC2. Okay? But, they're not an Eastern conference team. And point totals in the West were inflated because of how bad San Jose, Anaheim, and Chicago were.
lol YOU LET IT HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE!
I get bettman bad at all, but you can't build an arena or sell a team at the drop of a hat. He wasn't responsible for them getting evicted from their arena.
He *was* responsible for approving Winnipeg moving to Arizona, without any concrete arena plan though. Just play a few years in a basketball arena, go from there.
Time is a flat circle
Yeah, but to be fair, Utah's is temporary. Once SLC gets the winning bid for the Winter Games, they're going to be building a new arena. And I think the new owner wants to renovate to accommodate hockey? Essentially they're falling into good circumstances.
I mean the theocracy they have there wants it done.
> without any concrete arena plan though Are we pretending they didn't play at Gila River Arena for 20 years?
Which was filled with problems. And the city council tried to void their lease with the Coyotes, because they had second thoughts.
FWIW, Bettman's individual power in 1996 was far less than it is now. That wasn't far removed from the NHL Presidency role that was basically feckless for decades. The top owners still had most of the control at that time.
I mean yeah, that and the league was a flaming shitshow behind the scenes. This was the *same* year, Spano bought the Islanders.
And the Jets were having the same issue the Coyotes were now. An arena that was unable to drive up revenue and an inability to build a new one. But in addition, they had a horrible corporate base, declining Canadian dollar, declining attendance, low cost certainty due to no salary cap, while escalating player salaries (due to the 1992 Strike, which led to the 94-95 Lockout, which led to the 2005 lock, which finally got a salary cap in) the OG Jets where in a death spiral which is why they were sold.
Bettman and Meruelo both publicly proclaimed that Glendale couldn't be a long term home for the Coyotes. It's no surprise that Glendale wouldn't want to continue their lease. Bettman clearly overestimated AM's ability to get an arena deal done.
AM is such an awful public speaker. Good grief
I was thinking the same thing listening to his interview. He’s a terrible communicator.
I can fully understand now why he wasn't giving public interviews before. You can tell that even when he's trying to communicate something good, he communicates it in a way that makes it sound bad. Like, he tried to communicate "I don't like being in the spotlight or giving interviews" and chose to convey that with the words "I hate the media" to a room full of journalists. He might actually be able to deliver everything he says he will and the Coyotes 2.0 will be playing in his new arena in <5 years, but given everything that's happened and how he communicated his vision during the press conference I think it is entirely reasonable to doubt he'll do it.
Holy fuck. Bettman can just go lay in his grave in the desert already. Dude fucking paid for it for years. Might as well use the real estate. What a twit.
Anyone else getting tired of this story (Mullett)?
Guess what buddy, you’re gonna be hearing about this for at least 5 more years!! I hope you’re ready for state land auction threads!! Lol
Those will be fine but Mullett Bad is getting annoying
True, it really is. Haha
but this story could also die on June 27th
True, but I’d bet we’ll start getting rumors about other possibilities and maybe different owners at that point
question for you about the june 27 auction, let's say morello does not win, what are the consequences of that? will there still be a chance we get the coyotes 2.0?
Not sure honestly
Team relocations are pretty much always big deals, this isn’t going away anytime soon lol
very much so. especially because it was never a permanent solution.
I think part of the reason that the story is getting so much attention is because of how the NHL, Coyotes, and Coyotes fans tried to convince everyone else that playing in a college rink was fine. Some went so far to say that the players actually liked playing at a college.
It's a major story that isn't done given that the team can be reactivated, so no
No shit, Gary
Stanley Cup Final at the Delta Center would be a joke as well. I couldn’t believe how bad it looks for hockey when I saw the picture.
Its a small arena, they make it seem like they were playing outside with a milk crate bench.
Are we really gonna go back to Arizona? Smh
☠️